Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Gyan » 24 Apr 2020 13:58

I think Astra Mk2 was close to being Arjuned in favor of Astra SFDR but it might have been revived now. My estimate of prices:-

Astra MKI USD 0.75 MIL

Derby, R77, Amraam C5, USD 1 Mil

MICA 2 MIL

Meteor 3 MIL

iDerby, New Amraam, New R77s around USD 1.25-1.5 Mil

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Nilanjan » 24 Apr 2020 15:20

sankum wrote:Anyone can correct me if I am wrong.

While marketing I derby ER the maker is saying that you are getting 80% of Meteor performance for one third the price. Now Meteor for $3m /missile gives NEZ of 60km. That means I derby ER for $1m/missile gives NEZ of 48km.

Astra mk2 with dual pulse will give a range of 150km as compared to 100km of I derby ER.

Range of air to air missile calculation is very tricky,it depends upto which energy state the missile is considered tobe a active missile.although in low energy state a dp missile will get range close to sfdr missile like meteore but in high energy state which directly translets into nez, dp missile will never get closer to a sfdr missile.the isreali claim a buisness trick..

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Nilanjan » 24 Apr 2020 15:39

HELINA. SANT. DHRUVASTRA. all three are same missile with different seeker. Helina use a iir seeker. Sant use a mmw seeker .it's range is higher than helina because due to mmw seeker it can fully utillise it's propoltion system,which helina can't do due to limitation of iir seeker. Sant is like desi brimstone Dhruvastra will use a semi active laser seeker.it is basically desi hellfire.due to laser seeker it can be used against cold targets unlike helina and also against flat targets unlike sant.That's why in it's description with anti-tank the anti-surface term is used.there was some news that dhruvastra is just a luncher of helina,which is total rubbish.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Nilanjan » 25 Apr 2020 12:35

Indranil wrote:Srai sahab, thanks for that image. This is the first time I have seen the quadpack!

Nilanjan,

1. Are you sure about Rudra M2 being a cruise missile? There are some indicators that it is rocket-powered. I am sure of its warheads. There was a tender to develop 100 of those, 50 each of PF and PCB variants. The warheads weigh 200kgs each. I also vaguely remember something on the guidance. IIRC, terminal guidance is IIR based.

2. As per a previous DRDO tender, M3 is a hypersonic ballistic missile. Why would it require a second pulse. The first pulse will take the missile from launch to hypersonic. What will the second pulse do?

3. The news on the MANPAD is really heartening if true. I will wait for some corroboration. It will take away one of my pet peeves on DRDO's missile development.
Have you seen warhead weight of rudram3 on that tender document?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 25 Apr 2020 19:40

There is no XRSAM in the DRDO Missile list. I am disappoint. May there be lice in the beards of all those who don't sanction it. :-?

Development of New Weapon systems: Analysed the current and futuristic requirements of Missiles & Guided Weapon Systems with all stake holders, new projects have been taken up and being executed to further strengthen the arsenal of Armed Forces:

QRSAM ‐ Quick Reaction Surface to Air Missile flight tests are being conducted
Akash1S ‐ Surface to Air Missile with indigenous seeker has been successfully flight tested
Rudram II ‐ Air to Surface Missile with a range of upto 330km
Rudram III ‐ Air to Surface Missile with a range of upto 550km
SLCM ‐ Submarine launched Cruise Missile
Pralay ‐ Surface to Surface tactical Missile
High Power Electromagnetic Weapon for tactical applications
Liquid Fuel Ramjet (LFRJ) based supersonic target
Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet (SFDR) based Missile for long range Air to Air application
MRSAM (Army) ‐ Medium Range Surface to Air Missile for Indian Army
Akash NG ‐ New Generation Surface to Air Missile with state‐of‐the‐art Seeker system
NGARM ‐ New Generation Air to Surface Anti Radiation Missile
Short and Medium range Naval Anti Ship Missiles
SANT ‐ Stand‐off Anti Tank Missile with MMW Seeker
VSHORAD ‐ Very Short Range Air Defence System
MPATGM ‐ Man Portable Anti Tank Guided Missile
LRSAM IAC ‐ Long Range Surface to Air Missile for Indigenous Aircraft Carrier

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 25 Apr 2020 19:45

Yeah yeah I understand the S-400 gets us time and the VSHORAD is a more essential short term deal. But still, the XRSAM is an essential requirement as 5 squadrons of the S-400 are in no way sufficient, and the XRSAM can offer us break-through opportunities in radar and missile tech.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 25 Apr 2020 20:00

No Nilanjan ji, I have no idea about the warhead weight of Rudra M3.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 25 Apr 2020 20:01

Indranil be happy, you got your MANPADS.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Nilanjan » 25 Apr 2020 22:41

Karan M wrote:There is no XRSAM in the DRDO Missile list. I am disappoint. May there be lice in the beards of all those who don't sanction it. :-?

Development of New Weapon systems: Analysed the current and futuristic requirements of Missiles & Guided Weapon Systems with all stake holders, new projects have been taken up and being executed to further strengthen the arsenal of Armed Forces:

QRSAM ‐ Quick Reaction Surface to Air Missile flight tests are being conducted
Akash1S ‐ Surface to Air Missile with indigenous seeker has been successfully flight tested
Rudram II ‐ Air to Surface Missile with a range of upto 330km
Rudram III ‐ Air to Surface Missile with a range of upto 550km
SLCM ‐ Submarine launched Cruise Missile
Pralay ‐ Surface to Surface tactical Missile
High Power Electromagnetic Weapon for tactical applications
Liquid Fuel Ramjet (LFRJ) based supersonic target
Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet (SFDR) based Missile for long range Air to Air application
MRSAM (Army) ‐ Medium Range Surface to Air Missile for Indian Army
Akash NG ‐ New Generation Surface to Air Missile with state‐of‐the‐art Seeker system
NGARM ‐ New Generation Air to Surface Anti Radiation Missile
Short and Medium range Naval Anti Ship Missiles
SANT ‐ Stand‐off Anti Tank Missile with MMW Seeker
VSHORAD ‐ Very Short Range Air Defence System
MPATGM ‐ Man Portable Anti Tank Guided Missile
LRSAM IAC ‐ Long Range Surface to Air Missile for Indigenous Aircraft Carrier

Not all sanctioned projects are mentioned here. Beside xr-sam , vl-astra for navy which dr. Reddy himself mentioned in a interview, supersonic missile asisted torpedo also not mentioned which r.m. mentioned in parliament......so,don't worry xr-sam is a santioned project and that's why drdl in it's official website released a pic( i think that missile is just one of the 2/3 planned missile,because the pic mentioned missile will never attain a range of 350 km)

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 26 Apr 2020 01:21

Karan M wrote:Indranil be happy, you got your MANPADS.

Yes. I am very happy. But I am waiting for corroboration from Nilanjan ji.

My other big pet peeve has been the lack of a desi CCM. Frankly Astra Mk2 is just a matter of time after Mk1 development (which has now stabilized). The dual-pulse motor development for Mk2 is not that difficult for DRDL now. They have mastered it through Barak and NGARM. I am very happy about SFDR but that's at the very tip of the pyramid. Astra Mk2 will be the majority of our BVRAAM arsenal and that is within our reach.

One thing that has happened in the meanwhile which has worked in our favour is that the world of aerial warfare has found a new optimum in MRAAM which has the agility of a CCM and about half the range of a BVRAAM. Astra Mk1 is closer to an MRAAM than a CCM. I had come across some talk of putting an IIR seeker on Astra Mk1, but I don't know the latest. I hope we develop MRAAM Astra Mk1A and Astra Mk2 at the earliest.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Nilanjan » 26 Apr 2020 01:57

Indranil wrote:
Karan M wrote:Indranil be happy, you got your MANPADS.

Yes. I am very happy. But I am waiting for corroboration from Nilanjan ji.

My other big pet peeve has been the lack of a desi CCM. Frankly once Astra Mk2 is just a matter of time after Mk1 development, which has now stabilized. The dual-pulse motor development for Mk2 is not that difficult for DRDL now. They have mastered it through Barak and NGARM. I am very happy about SFDR but that's at the very tip of the pyramid. Astra Mk2 will be the majority of our BVRAAM arsenal and that is within our reach.

One thing that has happened in the meanwhile which has worked in our favour is that the world of aerial warfare has found a new optimum MRAAM which has the agility of a CCM and about half the range of a BVRAAM. Therefore Astra Mk1 can be easily modified towards a MRAAM. I had come across some talk of putting an IIR seeker on Astra Mk1, but I don't know the latest. I hope we develop MRAAM Astra Mk1A and Astra Mk2 at the earliest.

Probably govt. Sanctioned a project for ccm "ng- ccm".as drdo will devolop a dual colour seeker for the vshorad,so drdo can also use it in ng-ccm(probably a more sophisticated version)

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby srai » 26 Apr 2020 09:26

...

One thing that has happened in the meanwhile which has worked in our favour is that the world of aerial warfare has found a new optimum in MRAAM which has the agility of a CCM and about half the range of a BVRAAM. Astra Mk1 is closer to an MRAAM than a CCM. I had come across some talk of putting an IIR seeker on Astra Mk1, but I don't know the latest. I hope we develop MRAAM Astra Mk1A and Astra Mk2 at the earliest.



Sounds like MICA RF/IR fits the bill perfectly for hybrid CCM/MRAAM.

Based on the DRDO poster, Astra Mk1 already has lot of the capabilities of hybrid CCM/MRSAM especially if it gets IIR seeker as well.
Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 26 Apr 2020 09:35

Indranil wrote:
Karan M wrote:Indranil be happy, you got your MANPADS.

Yes. I am very happy. But I am waiting for corroboration from Nilanjan ji.

My other big pet peeve has been the lack of a desi CCM. Frankly Astra Mk2 is just a matter of time after Mk1 development (which has now stabilized). The dual-pulse motor development for Mk2 is not that difficult for DRDL now. They have mastered it through Barak and NGARM. I am very happy about SFDR but that's at the very tip of the pyramid. Astra Mk2 will be the majority of our BVRAAM arsenal and that is within our reach.

One thing that has happened in the meanwhile which has worked in our favour is that the world of aerial warfare has found a new optimum in MRAAM which has the agility of a CCM and about half the range of a BVRAAM. Astra Mk1 is closer to an MRAAM than a CCM. I had come across some talk of putting an IIR seeker on Astra Mk1, but I don't know the latest. I hope we develop MRAAM Astra Mk1A and Astra Mk2 at the earliest.


Agreed on all points, they are very valid and a priority. Though I am still sulking over my XRSAM! It better be there on the roadmap!

An IIR seeker equipped Astra Mk1 will be awesome sauce. Can you imagine the lethality increase against PAF/PLAAF with that freaking thing being passive in the terminal stage. Also, will give us a good handle against LO/VLO RF fighters when they appear.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 26 Apr 2020 09:35

Nilanjan wrote:
Indranil wrote:Yes. I am very happy. But I am waiting for corroboration from Nilanjan ji.

My other big pet peeve has been the lack of a desi CCM. Frankly once Astra Mk2 is just a matter of time after Mk1 development, which has now stabilized. The dual-pulse motor development for Mk2 is not that difficult for DRDL now. They have mastered it through Barak and NGARM. I am very happy about SFDR but that's at the very tip of the pyramid. Astra Mk2 will be the majority of our BVRAAM arsenal and that is within our reach.

One thing that has happened in the meanwhile which has worked in our favour is that the world of aerial warfare has found a new optimum MRAAM which has the agility of a CCM and about half the range of a BVRAAM. Therefore Astra Mk1 can be easily modified towards a MRAAM. I had come across some talk of putting an IIR seeker on Astra Mk1, but I don't know the latest. I hope we develop MRAAM Astra Mk1A and Astra Mk2 at the earliest.

Probably govt. Sanctioned a project for ccm "ng- ccm".as drdo will devolop a dual colour seeker for the vshorad,so drdo can also use it in ng-ccm(probably a more sophisticated version)


If you are referring to HALs use of the term, its the ASRAAM. Is DRDO developing a (simpler) dual color seeker for the VSHORAD - is that confirmed?
A state of the art NG CCM missile would likely require a staring imaging sensor.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Nilanjan » 26 Apr 2020 10:17

Karan M wrote:
Nilanjan wrote:Probably govt. Sanctioned a project for ccm "ng- ccm".as drdo will devolop a dual colour seeker for the vshorad,so drdo can also use it in ng-ccm(probably a more sophisticated version)


If you are referring to HALs use of the term, its the ASRAAM. Is DRDO developing a (simpler) dual color seeker for the VSHORAD - is that confirmed?
A state of the art NG CCM missile would likely require a staring imaging sensor.

Majority manpads use dual color seeker (chinese use laser guidence).so,maybe drdo also devoloping it.......... For ngccm, no i am not refering to asraam, drdo probablly started r&d for ccm ......
And at last,contray to media reports iaf not going to deploy asraam in the whole fleet.it is only for jaguar and mirage, others will get modernised r-73 ( f-16 killer).. which is equaly effective and far more cheaper

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 26 Apr 2020 10:29

A dual color seeker as on the latest R-73 variants, while effective won't be as capable as a staring IIR seeker - an imaging seeker is simply that much harder to jam. So, it is quite likely IAF will ask for an IIR seeker for the Astra Mk1 variant or a pure CCM. DRDO has experience with the tech., thanks to the Nag, HELINA and PDV.

ASRAAM is not meant for the Mirage, it has received 490 Mica's split between IR and EM versions. The Rafale's ironically enough may need it or the Astra IR version. We are yet to hear of additional Mica's purchased for the Rafale.

ASRAAM is likely to find its way on the LCA (if HAL's proposal is adapted) and the Su-30 MKI (two of which have been modified for tests). The RVV-MD (the modernised R-73E) can still be acquired for the MiG-29s, back up ASRAAM stocks (as you say, its likely cheaper). Also, mixing and matching RVV-MD with ASRAAM would also make sense. Fielding both missiles has advantages. The European equivalent to the RVV-MD is the IRIS-T, and the American equivalent is the AIM-9X. To make the latter more capable, it has even received a datalink.

The RVV-MD/R-73E are close-range missiles that combine extreme maneuverability to out-G the opponent. The ASRAAM while capable close-in, was optimized as a transitionary missile between WVR/BVR which is intended to use its speed to take out opponents before they close in further. Sort of a modernized, shorter ranged R-27 ET.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 26 Apr 2020 11:23

Karan,

Let me set your mind at rest. XRSAM is a sanctioned and ongoing project.

They have all the sense side from the 1st stage of the ABM program. You are more knowledgeable than me in that area.

On the propulsive side, I agree with Gyan (which is a rarity). It looks like they have used a segment of AAD as the booster and a Barak-8 derivative as the main missile. It makes perfect sense. Both are well established. The AAD based booster has TVC + fin based control. This is required for a SAM. To be able to steer in any direction right after ejection from a VL canister The motor and the control are well established. The burn rate would be near optimal. Basically, they will lift this thing high using the booster and the first pulse and let it follow a semi ballistic path to near the target. The second pulse of the missile will be used for the end game.

Expect first launch in less than 3 years unless geopolitics gets involved.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 01 May 2020 21:59

https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... y/1891392/

Development trials of Pinaka guided rocket including salvo firing and demonstration of range with pin-point accuracy has been conducted.
Development of Quick Reaction Surface-to-Air Missile (QRSAM) Air Defence on move systems having the capability to search, track and engage targets on short halts have been proven.
Indian Air Force (IAF) order for additional squadrons of surface-to-air missile system (SRSAM) Akash has been placed.
The Indian Army is also in the process of procuring two more Akash regiments fitted with the indigenous seeker.
Medium-Range Surface-to-Air Missile (MRSAM) is in an advanced stage of realization.
NAG has completed the development and user trials and is ready for induction.
Man-Portable Anti-Tank Guided Missile (MPATGM) & Helina is in advanced stages of development.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 04 May 2020 04:54

Might as well report this, a substantial order for Akash-1S and Astra was expected this FY. I wonder how the budget cut will impact it. :evil:

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 04 May 2020 08:04

If I am seeing right budget cut is for imports and import canal, and behind the scenes there will be huge pressure from Foreign Govts. GOI will try and use this excuse to cut down on those items. The only problem is we have a huge commission mafia accross the board in India. For eg, the US has a 1000 levers to squeeze us, we have walk this minefield while negotiating with them purchases which cannot easily cripple us with sanctions.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Prasad » 04 May 2020 15:26

Karan M wrote:Might as well report this, a substantial order for Akash-1S and Astra was expected this FY. I wonder how the budget cut will impact it. :evil:

There will be massive lobbying for foreign arms right now because world economy is hurting and we're a convenient cash-cow. IF goi pulls up its pants and says only desi maal chalega for the next 2 years atleast and signs on the dotted line for all the desi products standing dutifully in line outside the office, we'll be good. Sell it as a jobs program and a way to avoid "rafale scam" type assertions from opposition also. win-win one would think.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Pratyush » 04 May 2020 15:54

Karan M wrote:Might as well report this, a substantial order for Akash-1S and Astra was expected this FY. I wonder how the budget cut will impact it. :evil:


If the money is not available for domestic weapons. How money can be available for imports.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 04 May 2020 16:42

I am hoping at least half of the projected Astra, Akash 1S, MPATGM plus the full Tejas Mk1A order comes through. It will be a huge boost for desi industry.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Philip » 04 May 2020 17:57

Karan tx for the list.The naval short and med missiles mentioned in it could be developed out of the Rudra ASMs,if the pic shown is accurate. Size seems that of Uran's,warhead size too. The range would come down a bit if ship launched,but around 300km shouldn't be difficult if the length is between 4.5 to 6M. A reverse development of the universal missile concept which starts first with the anti- ship version like BMos.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kartik » 05 May 2020 00:54

Karan M wrote:There is no XRSAM in the DRDO Missile list. I am disappoint. May there be lice in the beards of all those who don't sanction it. :-?

Development of New Weapon systems: Analysed the current and futuristic requirements of Missiles & Guided Weapon Systems with all stake holders, new projects have been taken up and being executed to further strengthen the arsenal of Armed Forces:

QRSAM ‐ Quick Reaction Surface to Air Missile flight tests are being conducted
Akash1S ‐ Surface to Air Missile with indigenous seeker has been successfully flight tested
Rudram II ‐ Air to Surface Missile with a range of upto 330km
Rudram III ‐ Air to Surface Missile with a range of upto 550km
SLCM ‐ Submarine launched Cruise Missile
Pralay ‐ Surface to Surface tactical Missile
High Power Electromagnetic Weapon for tactical applications
Liquid Fuel Ramjet (LFRJ) based supersonic target
Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet (SFDR) based Missile for long range Air to Air application
MRSAM (Army) ‐ Medium Range Surface to Air Missile for Indian Army
Akash NG ‐ New Generation Surface to Air Missile with state‐of‐the‐art Seeker system
NGARM ‐ New Generation Air to Surface Anti Radiation Missile
Short and Medium range Naval Anti Ship Missiles
SANT ‐ Stand‐off Anti Tank Missile with MMW Seeker
VSHORAD ‐ Very Short Range Air Defence System
MPATGM ‐ Man Portable Anti Tank Guided Missile
LRSAM IAC ‐ Long Range Surface to Air Missile for Indigenous Aircraft Carrier


Is there an indigenous VSHORAD program? Never seen it before in any brochure or mockup. Does that mean the deal for the Igla-S MANPADs is to be cancelled?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 05 May 2020 03:09

Might purchase a few Igla-S like we did with the SPIKE and the bulk procurement is the VSHORAD.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 05 May 2020 03:11

Philip wrote:Karan tx for the list.

Credit goes to Nilanjan for the find.

The naval short and med missiles mentioned in it could be developed out of the Rudra ASMs,if the pic shown is accurate. Size seems that of Uran's,warhead size too. The range would come down a bit if ship launched,but around 300km shouldn't be difficult if the length is between 4.5 to 6M. A reverse development of the universal missile concept which starts first with the anti- ship version like BMos.


These are all separate programs and designs will be very different. Rudra series is likely going to look, operate very differently from the sea skimming NASM designs.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 05 May 2020 03:18

So, I remembered this report. Backs up the VSHORAD one. Have to give credit to this GOI.
https://www.indiatoday.in/mail-today/st ... 2017-11-17

As Army evaluates foreign missile systems, govt considers building indigenous variant under Make in India

Even as the army evaluates the missile systems of global vendors for a deal expected to be worth over Rs 12,000 crore, the defence ministry is moving towards indigenous development of similar very short-range air defence systems to promote Make in India.

A discussion took place at a high-level meeting in the defence ministry by top government and military officials where it was proposed that the DRDO (Defence Research and Development Organisation) should go ahead to develop the Very Short Range Air Defence System (VSHORAD) in the country itself, defence sources told Mail Today.

..................

The plan to develop the missile system which can strike targets at ranges of six to seven kms indigenously is being considered as the NDA government has come up with a missile policy which states that the country should become self-reliant in fields of missile by the year 2022, the sources said.

In recent times, the NDA government has moved very fast in favour of indigenous missile systems over the ones to be procured from foreign vendors as it decided to go in for home grown Akash air defence missiles over the ones developed by foreign vendors which were being tried by the army.

The government is also thinking of doing away with the plans to build a single-engine fighter aircraft programme in favour of the light combat aircraft Tejas which is still in the evolution stage in terms of technology and capabilities.

The ongoing global tender for the VSHORADS is also moving very slowly as after over five years in trials and re-trials, the defence ministry has reached the general staff evaluation stage and formed a technical oversight committee to look into the procedures followed by the tender procedure.

Under VSHORAD tender, Indian Army and Indian Navy plan to procure 5,175 missiles and 1,276 single and multi-launchers worth over Rs 15,000 crore with the transfer of technology to Indian defence sector partner for local manufacturing in the country.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 05 May 2020 03:22

https://www.vifindia.org/article/2019/o ... imperative

Article is a gem and a keeper. Every time folks slag the services for being import onlee, remember there were men like this in service as well, and continue to push the indigenous agenda.

Building Indigenous Missile Capability - An Imperative
Lt Gen (Dr) V K Saxena (Retd), PVSM, AVSM, VSM, Distinguished Fellow, VIF

The case of the author is that the country must acquire indigenous capability in producing the above missiles as the foreign route of procurement is unlikely to lead us anywhere. In fact, each of the above type of missile has its own long story of procurement. The attempt is to bring the reader up to date on each of these and make some viable suggestions for the foreseeable future.

Take the case of VSHORAD. It is surprising that the IGMDP never took this critical weapon system in its fold for indigenous development ab initio. Currently the Russian Igla 1M MANPADS serve in the category of VSHORAD in the three Services.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kartik » 05 May 2020 05:14

Karan M wrote:Might purchase a few Igla-S like we did with the SPIKE and the bulk procurement is the VSHORAD.


Have our existing stocks of Igla-M MANPADs mostly expired? Apparently most expired in 2013 and then BDL did attempt to increase the service life of Igla-M but it achieved mixed results as per Saurabh Joshi in the article below. The original order was supposed to be for nearly 5000 missiles, so a huge order that could generate a lot of business for BDL and private sector suppliers.

And given how many chances the Russians were given to somehow stay in the tender, despite not showing up multiple times for trials and displaying rather poor performance in missile firing and tracking, only policy changes and a renewed push for indigenous equipment could possibly derail the Russian win.

Now, we know that with DRDO developed systems, the Indian Armed Forces will want each and every spec to be met or they won't accept it. The VSHORAD may well end up being a better system than the Igla-S. Better buy a few hundred as a stopgap and wait till DRDO delivers a system that would have been thoroughly tested and work in Indian conditions.

article link
Last edited by Kartik on 05 May 2020 05:17, edited 2 times in total.

ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ramana » 05 May 2020 05:15

Glad about this:
High Power Electromagnetic Weapon for tactical applications

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 05 May 2020 05:23

Ramana - good eye. ;)

Kartik

5.20 IGLA: IGLA missiles are being sustained through life extension trials of propulsion systems, conducted by HEMRL, BDL and Indian Navy, followed by electrical check and dynamic firing by IAF. Refurbishment is also being actively pursued with BDL, Hyderabad.


MOD Annual Report 2018

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nachiket » 05 May 2020 10:12

Pratyush wrote:
Karan M wrote:Might as well report this, a substantial order for Akash-1S and Astra was expected this FY. I wonder how the budget cut will impact it. :evil:


If the money is not available for domestic weapons. How money can be available for imports.

Recent 6 Apache order for IA (for a significant sum) may suggest that the situation isn't impossible even with current GoI. Might change due to a post-covid economic crisis though.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Nilanjan » 05 May 2020 15:36

What are your opinions about the stealth cruise missile under the belly of mwf and tedbf shown in scale model and pics..??...is this just for show off or, the missile in devolopment stage???

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Prasad » 05 May 2020 15:37

SCALP integration was asked for by IAF.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 10 May 2020 03:03

https://www.deccanherald.com/state/iaf- ... 60765.html

IAF to get 7 more Akash missile squadrons

The chairman clarified that BEL was also developing a new radio-frequency seeker, which will be installed on board the missile to enhance interception of the target.

“This onboard will track the target and direct the missile through a ground link,” he said. According to sources, some of the new missiles destined for the Air Force will carry this new target seeker.


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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby SSridhar » 10 May 2020 10:07


The first 2 squadrons were for Gwalior & Lohegaon, way back in 2012-2013 timeframe. Then, six more were ordered for airbases in the east. In September, 2019 six more squadrons were ordered. It now appears that it was 7, not 6 squadrons. That makes the Air Force version totally 15 squadrons. From the report, it looks like it will be a mix of Akash 1 & 1S.

In October 2015, the IAF Chief S.R.Browne announced that 16 more Akash squadrons were on order by the IAF. So, we should expect some more orders.

As for the Army, two regiments were operationalized by 2017. Then an order for SR-SAMs was cancelled in favour of two more regiments of Akash. I don't know if the reference in the report for two regiments is to that or over and above that.
Last edited by SSridhar on 10 May 2020 11:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 11 May 2020 05:21

Yes, first 2, then 6, then 7. So a total of 15 squadrons for the IAF. The last seven will have a mix of 1S and regular missiles.

Now, for IA, 2 regiments ordered. Two more of 1S, yet to be.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby SSridhar » 11 May 2020 08:04

Thanks Karan.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 11 May 2020 09:30

This is in addition btw SSridhar sir, to the MRSAM units. 9 squadrons on order for the IAF, 2 regiments for the IA.
The IAF also received 3 SpyDer squadrons to replace/complement its OSA-AKM, whereas the IA is looking for the QRSAM to fulfill that role.
Additional orders for IA include the 48 upgraded Schilkas, L70 upgrades and additional radars (Israeli, Indian), but L70s are stuck because of lousy OFB ammo.


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