Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

[Tanaji]

There are a lot of more pressing low hanging fruit and easily attainable targets that DG artillery should concentrate. Chief among these are increasing the stock of 155mm shells to 3x the current value and figuring out a strategy to counter low cost suicide drone swarms that will inevitably come to take out artillery guns. Solutions for both exist right now with Indian industry - the first is a matter of placing orders and building shelters, the second by either going for longer range guns 155 x 52 with high litre capacity with an organic anti drone solution.

Rather the generals seem to be happy to try to get Athos or fanciful ramjet shells that are too expensive to use in volume.

[Karan M]

I'd take all the claims of ramjet artillery with a grain of salt. Gen PRS was in the forefront of stating of how straightforward it all was and how the Defence R&D guys would be taught a lesson by the IIT Madras team he'd assembled this, that etc and etc. Now of course it's "failures are a road to success". In other words he's learning these things are non linear and will take time to fix. Meanwhile we need what is mature and what is available.

[Atmavik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXt5eElm2AU

On The Shop Floor | India Has Potential To Become Global Defence Hub: Baba Kalyani

kalyani has sunk 800 cr in R&D. they have team of 150 (Phds and Mtech) design engg

[Pratyush]

Watching the shenanigans of the Indian army over the last few years. I feel sorry for Kalyani. His only hope is an export market.

The Army is out to make sure that no Kalyani will rise again in India.

[sanjayc]

Nice interview, though the first 10 minutes are wasted in general history of the company. Baba Kalyani says they started with trying to make barrels for T-72 tanks for Indian army, but the army / ofb guys always thought of a way to reject his products and get him out of business. This mafia of generals and public sector dudes, positioned rabidly against the private sector in India, needs to go if India has to emerge as a world-class military power. While OFB dudes are protecting their monopoly of making gutter-class products, generals are protecting imports and gravy train of commissions and foreign junkets. Kalyani can design and produce a world-class rifle in six months but the same mafia prevents this from happening, and goes for imports or OFB. Baba Kalyani is ageing. I fear he may wither away in a decade, but the mafia won't give an inch. Modi needs to wield the hammer

[NRao]

I'd take all the claims of ramjet artillery with a grain of salt. Gen PRS was in the forefront of stating of how straightforward it all was and how the Defence R&D guys would be taught a lesson by the IIT Madras team he'd assembled this, that etc and etc. Now of course it's "failures are a road to success". In other words he's learning these things are non linear and will take time to fix. Meanwhile we need what is mature and what is available.

While I agree with you (he acts like a *rick), and, I have had pretty challenging interactions with Gen. PRS, we need to support the tech/sci efforts.

The solutions are technical, not emotional. Emotions need to be parked.

This is doable.
__________________________________________________________________

Added l8r:

Rope in that Mongol. He has pulls in that IIT area.

[morem]

Nice interview, though the first 10 minutes are wasted in general history of the company. Baba Kalyani says they started with trying to make barrels for T-72 tanks for Indian army, but the army / ofb guys always thought of a way to reject his products and get him out of business. This mafia of generals and public sector dudes, positioned rabidly against the private sector in India, needs to go if India has to emerge as a world-class military power. While OFB dudes are protecting their monopoly of making gutter-class products, generals are protecting imports and gravy train of commissions and foreign junkets. Kalyani can design and produce a world-class rifle in six months but the same mafia prevents this from happening, and goes for imports or OFB. Baba Kalyani is ageing. I fear he may wither away in a decade, but the mafia won't give an inch. Modi needs to wield the hammer

There is a line of succession, his son Amit Kalyani has been working with BF for 25 years.

[Amol0922]

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 2011873739

Kalyani Rafael Advanced Systems (KRAS) in Hyderabad, as been certified a “secret” facility and will undertake sensitive defence projects for the Indian and Israeli defence ministries.

Kalyani is progressing very well in Defence manufacturing, Hope that they will get integrated in new corporatized OFB.

[Atmavik]

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 2011873739

Kalyani Rafael Advanced Systems (KRAS) in Hyderabad, as been certified a “secret” facility and will undertake sensitive defence projects for the Indian and Israeli defence ministries.

Kalyani is progressing very well in Defence manufacturing, Hope that they will get integrated in new corporatized OFB.

In the interview linked above Baba Kalyani says that they r making spike Atgm in Hyd. Maybe there is more stuff which is secret

[Karan M]

I'd take all the claims of ramjet artillery with a grain of salt. Gen PRS was in the forefront of stating of how straightforward it all was and how the Defence R&D guys would be taught a lesson by the IIT Madras team he'd assembled this, that etc and etc. Now of course it's "failures are a road to success". In other words he's learning these things are non linear and will take time to fix. Meanwhile we need what is mature and what is available.

While I agree with you (he acts like a *rick), and, I have had pretty challenging interactions with Gen. PRS, we need to support the tech/sci efforts.

The solutions are technical, not emotional. Emotions need to be parked.

This is doable.
__________________________________________________________________

Added l8r:

Rope in that Mongol. He has pulls in that IIT area.

Which is precisely the point. These folks ego driven prescriptions always run up against tech reality only after they disparage whatever is already being done. That disparaging narrative sabotages so many iterative efforts. He was pushing ramjet arty over a ready ATAGS. Where are his ramjet rounds now. Meanwhile a negative narrative about ATAGS, expensive, heavy was spread.

[Karan M]

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 2011873739

Kalyani Rafael Advanced Systems (KRAS) in Hyderabad, as been certified a “secret” facility and will undertake sensitive defence projects for the Indian and Israeli defence ministries.

Kalyani is progressing very well in Defence manufacturing, Hope that they will get integrated in new corporatized OFB.

Somebody ask this guy to start posting sources for his claims.

[Karan M]

Nice interview, though the first 10 minutes are wasted in general history of the company. Baba Kalyani says they started with trying to make barrels for T-72 tanks for Indian army, but the army / ofb guys always thought of a way to reject his products and get him out of business. This mafia of generals and public sector dudes, positioned rabidly against the private sector in India, needs to go if India has to emerge as a world-class military power. While OFB dudes are protecting their monopoly of making gutter-class products, generals are protecting imports and gravy train of commissions and foreign junkets. Kalyani can design and produce a world-class rifle in six months but the same mafia prevents this from happening, and goes for imports or OFB. Baba Kalyani is ageing. I fear he may wither away in a decade, but the mafia won't give an inch. Modi needs to wield the hammer

DRDO worked withTata and Bharat Forge and ATAGS has still taken it's time. DPSUs aren't some poor quality competitors de jure. Midhani makes world class gear too. OFB ammo is now widely exported and sought after given the Ukrainian conflict. It's received a positive rep for it's quality so far.
A lot of OFB infra was pathetic and deliberately kept obsolete along with chalta hain IOFS. Post corporatization, they are competing with pvt sector for all deals.
Aim should be to harness the capacity in both PSU and pvt not support one above the other. Also hold both to the same standards as well.

Modi Govt PMO has already bought into the magic pvt sector magic claims as is and have been gamed by fake IDDM type deals already. I only hope they arent saddled with a mega scam as some ambitious pvt vendor passes off a screwdriver import as an IDDM deal. We will all be affected if this Govt falls due to such craziness.

[Amol0922]

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 2011873739

Kalyani Rafael Advanced Systems (KRAS) in Hyderabad, as been certified a “secret” facility and will undertake sensitive defence projects for the Indian and Israeli defence ministries.

Kalyani is progressing very well in Defence manufacturing, Hope that they will get integrated in new corporatized OFB.

Somebody ask this guy to start posting sources for his claims.

You can find reference over here:

https://www.krasindia.com/about-us.php

[Karan M]

Thanks, I wish he does too. It's increasingly hard to take some of his statements seriously when sources are missing.

[Pratyush]

https://idrw.org/towed-vs-mounted-guns- ... artillery/

IDRW, is posting that the Indian army is in favour of towed arty, over other varieties of arty. Because of concealment and lower logistical footprint.

[Manish_P]

https://idrw.org/towed-vs-mounted-guns- ... artillery/

IDRW, is posting that the Indian army is in favour of towed arty, over other varieties of arty. Because of concealment and lower logistical footprint.

We need all kinds since all weapon systems are compromises.

Towed artillery advantages are listed in your post.

Western artillery commands and analysts have drawn other inferences from the Ukraine experience. They value a highly mobile SP gun as they have seen the Russian counter battery fire has been very effective as the kill chain has been short and fast.

They remarked that specifically for the ukraine russian theatre they feel that SP pieces which are highly mobile across the muddy slushy terrain (tracked instead of wheeled) and easy to maintain / repair in the field (not over engineered like the german PzH 2000) are more survivable than towed artillery at they have lost almost a third of the M777s they provided ukraine. They do admit that these need good transportation facility to the fronts. However costs are an issue as the SPGs are almost 30% or more costlier than the towed guns to procure and have higher opex as well.

So the ideal type varies based on whether your opponent is peer level or not, whether you have absolute air supremacy or not, and in the new age, whether your anti-air / anti-drone defence is as agile as your artillery and capable of tracking and killing low flying aerial threats.

India faces all kinds of threats. And in varied terrains. Recalling (IIRC) what Shiv Ji used to say - 'We are a huge nation and we need all types of weapons'

Edit - an article about the artillery war in Ukraine
https://euro-sd.com/2023/10/articles/34 ... y-picture/

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1780115070380585083 ---> JUST IN: Ordnance Factory, Ambajhari has successfully fielded trials of 155mm HE Bourrelet Shells jointly developed in association with ARDE. Trials conducted in PXE, Balasore from 155x52 calibre ATAGS. Range & accuracy are very encouraging, achieved 34 km.

Bourrelet Shell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourrelet

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1780116269645345231 ---> Next in Line, trials of Jai/Reliance Ammunition Limited 155mm HE Bourrelet rounds. Both OFJ and Jai Ammunition Limited got the development contract for the development of 155mm HE Bourrelet rounds from ARDE, DRDO.

[ashthor]

What is it used for?

[Manish_P]

What is it used for?

This might be of some help - Projectile Design

Check the function of the Bourrelet and the Rotating Band

[Rakesh]

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