Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 07 May 2019 00:36

Really good news.

if VCAS Air Marshal RKS Bhadauria does get promoted to CAS, it will be a massive shot in the arm for the Tejas program. While the current CAS, Air Marshal BS Dhanoa has been extremely supportive of the LCA program, my belief is that AM RKS Bhadauria will be even more supportive, given how well versed he is with the LCA program and having flown it himself. It will augur very well for the Medium Weight Fighter program to have a strong supporter as CAS.

It also displays a significant departure from the past, where IAF officials deputed to the LCA program basically saw their career up ended by senior IAF officials, who saw it as a cushy posting. Sadly, the IN suffers from that malaise, with Commander Maolankar's career suffering despite his immense contribution to the Naval LCA program.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Karan M » 07 May 2019 00:39

Cmd Balaji had some really harsh views on the Navy and its treatment of the NLCA program. It was Parrikars single handed support which kept the program going. 18 meetings with NLCA team to track, monitor their progress, support them! Balaji sir has a lot of respect for Parrikar sir.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 07 May 2019 01:03

--- Self Deleted ----

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 07 May 2019 03:02

OH.....MY.....GOODNESS!!! :shock: What a GORGEOUS bird!!!

What amazing timing....drag & drop into new window. I think I can speak for everyone on this forum when I say - PROUD!!!!! JAI HIND!!!!

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 1145315333 ---> Weekend Pics: No 45 Sqn CO, Group Captain Samrath “Danny” Dhankar heads out for the Tejas display at Aero India 2019.

Image

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 07 May 2019 03:18

WOW ! The first pic took my breath away! The Tejas is a real looker from that angle.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby negi » 07 May 2019 10:18

Kartik wrote:Really good news.

if VCAS Air Marshal RKS Bhadauria does get promoted to CAS, it will be a massive shot in the arm for the Tejas program. While the current CAS, Air Marshal BS Dhanoa has been extremely supportive of the LCA program, my belief is that AM RKS Bhadauria will be even more supportive, given how well versed he is with the LCA program and having flown it himself. It will augur very well for the Medium Weight Fighter program to have a strong supporter as CAS.

It also displays a significant departure from the past, where IAF officials deputed to the LCA program basically saw their career up ended by senior IAF officials, who saw it as a cushy posting. Sadly, the IN suffers from that malaise, with Commander Maolankar's career suffering despite his immense contribution to the Naval LCA program.

This is a very very cursory reading of how promotions happen in forces ; asli duniya alag hai , it's a GoTR level game out there. Services have their own caste system and the ACRs are a joke , unlike the private sector the bright ones have nowhere to go they usually take retirement after completing mandatory tenure and move to the private sector , of course not everyone who rises to the top is a rank idiot but the point is the brightest never stay .

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Karan M » 07 May 2019 14:09

>>brightest never stay

C'mon man, that's a gross generalization and you know it. Some of the guys do stick around and persevere, even rise to the top of the system.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby tsarkar » 07 May 2019 16:21

Karan M wrote:>>brightest never stay

C'mon man, that's a gross generalization and you know it. Some of the guys do stick around and persevere, even rise to the top of the system.

Negi is right, none of the best make it to the top. Prem Bhagat Victoria Cross never made COAS. Neither did Sagat Singh - who fought a 2.5 front war (China at Nathu La & Cho La 1967, Bangladesh Liberation 1971, Mizo insurgency) and established CIJWS. Nor did Hanut Singh rise to top nor did Harbaksh Singh.

In more recent times, Sheonan Singh (Engineer, Paracommando, Sri Lanka veteran and nephew of "the" revolutionary Bhagat Singh) never made it to the top.

Gen Bewoor, who surrendered Jelep La to China without a fight in 1965 was made COAS instead of Prem Bhagat. Sagat Singh refused to vacate Nathu La in 1965.

On the other hand jokers like Pran Nath Thapar made. His son Karan Thapar goes around besmirching Sam Maneckshaw's reputation.
Last edited by tsarkar on 07 May 2019 19:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby tsarkar » 07 May 2019 16:36

Kartik wrote:Really good news.
if VCAS Air Marshal RKS Bhadauria does get promoted to CAS, it will be a massive shot in the arm for the Tejas program. While the current CAS, Air Marshal BS Dhanoa has been extremely supportive of the LCA program, my belief is that AM RKS Bhadauria will be even more supportive, given how well versed he is with the LCA program and having flown it himself. It will augur very well for the Medium Weight Fighter program to have a strong supporter as CAS.

It also displays a significant departure from the past, where IAF officials deputed to the LCA program basically saw their career up ended by senior IAF officials, who saw it as a cushy posting. Sadly, the IN suffers from that malaise, with Commander Maolankar's career suffering despite his immense contribution to the Naval LCA program.


Am not sure how people come to conclusions of who is very supportive and who isnt. Both Balaji and Maolankar moved from Navy to ADA. So no way they would have had any role in the IN thereafter. AM Nambiar & Bhaduria did what their roles required them to do. AM Bhaduria also negotiated the Rafale deal. Just because something happened in their watch doesnt mean they're supportive or negative. They just dispassionately do their jobs.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby jaysimha » 07 May 2019 18:03

Some Thoughts About India’s LCA Programme

Having come so far down the developmental path, the LCA project must not stop at 123 or even 250 aircraft, but, along with the enhanced Kaveri engine should form the core of all future fighter evolution in India
April 25, 2019 Editor Defence Industry, Top Stories
By Admiral (Retd) Arun Prakash

https://www.raksha-anirveda.com/some-th ... programme/

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby tsarkar » 07 May 2019 19:25

jaysimha wrote:Some Thoughts About India’s LCA Programme

Having come so far down the developmental path, the LCA project must not stop at 123 or even 250 aircraft, but, along with the enhanced Kaveri engine should form the core of all future fighter evolution in India
April 25, 2019 Editor Defence Industry, Top Stories
By Admiral (Retd) Arun Prakash

https://www.raksha-anirveda.com/some-th ... programme/


This is the most balanced article I've read on NLCA. The NLCA is still evolving, as evidenced by the recent redesign seen at Aero India with new control surfaces. (BTW the gentleman heading NLCA Project was my secondary school classmate.)

Its very difficult to make fundamental structural changes in a done design. And changes made in one area may require changes in another area thus creating a vicious cycle of its own.

Carrier requirements have always been more stringent than land based fighters, which is why carrier conversions of land based fighters failed spectacularly, examples being F-111B and F-16N or the WW2 Seafire conversion of the Spitfire.

The Spitfire was superb as a land based fighter but abysmally poor in the carrier role.

On the other hand, carrier aircraft built to tougher specs perform superbly when land based, examples being the F-4, A-4 and A-7 that served admirably in many air forces on land. Rafale is a recent example. Even the F-14 is still serving in Iran.

I would have been happier if MWF was designed keeping naval requirements in mind and then adapting for Air Force - like the Rafale.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 07 May 2019 20:14

Thanks tsarkar for you perspective.


Keeping naval requirements in mind while drawing up the initial stage is the best option.
it will sill be too heavy for the air force version but most other parts can be common.
Besides its avionics that is the most expensive part nowadays.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 07 May 2019 20:15

Also folks don't speculate on IAF chain of command in Tejas thread.
Its not germane nor proper.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 07 May 2019 20:38

I have deleted my posts Ramana-ji.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 08 May 2019 03:25

tsarkar wrote:
Am not sure how people come to conclusions of who is very supportive and who isnt. Both Balaji and Maolankar moved from Navy to ADA. So no way they would have had any role in the IN thereafter. AM Nambiar & Bhaduria did what their roles required them to do. AM Bhaduria also negotiated the Rafale deal. Just because something happened in their watch doesnt mean they're supportive or negative. They just dispassionately do their jobs.


Get your facts right first. Cmde Balaji was deputed to ADA but retired and took up as an ADA employee.

And Commander Maolankar never "moved" to the ADA either. He too was deputed to the NFTC by the Navy but he continues to be an Indian Navy officer. He did get promoted to Commodore from a Commander

Livefist link
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Reason: No need to come off sounding rude. ramana

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Dileep » 08 May 2019 13:35

Mao sir got stuck at Commodore (IIRC automatic promotion from Captain) while his peers got promoted further. He seems to be blaming it on his stint with LCA.

Anyway, I heard a lot of not so good words about him from ADA folk.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 10 May 2019 01:32

HAL is considering a retractable AAR for Mk1A. RFI is out.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nachiket » 10 May 2019 03:52

Indranil wrote:HAL is considering a retractable AAR for Mk1A. RFI is out.

Why add the complexity and consequent delay at this point? Has the IAF even asked for a retractable AAR? This doesn't make sense when speed is of the essence.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Karan M » 10 May 2019 04:09

A retractable AAR is not necessarily that complex, as metal cutting and fitting it into the aircraft body, if it withdraws into a receptacle, in a casing on the aircraft exterior. But I wonder what is driving this requirement, because the casing for the AAR (with its mechanism to extend, withdraw the AAR) won't be light either, will add drag. Only one reason that's possible, is a permanent AAR is coming in the way of pilot visibility, in which case it makes perfect sense to add provided it does not drastically affect airframe performance otherwise.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 10 May 2019 07:28

Not privy to internal decision making, but I don't like this scope creep.

I think HAL has decided to go slow on Mk1 and bank on more FOC orders till Mk1A arrives. I can't think of any other conclusion. Unfortunate, if you ask me.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Dileep » 10 May 2019 12:02

The AAR probe is sticking out like a boner into the FOV of the radar (was. now moved back IIRC) and to the airflow over the sensors (worked around in software). So, it sure make sense from a 'demanding discerning customer' to ask for a solution onlee.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 10 May 2019 12:40

How do the Rafale and M-2000 manage with thier Fixed Probes?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 11 May 2019 00:03

Dileep wrote:The AAR probe is sticking out like a boner into the FOV of the radar (was. now moved back IIRC) and to the airflow over the sensors (worked around in software). So, it sure make sense from a 'demanding discerning customer' to ask for a solution onlee.


Well, that depends on the placement of the retractable AAR probe as well. If it ends up being more side on to the pilot then that has its own disadvantages, as a basket may end up being uncomfortably close to the canopy at the time of the pilot trying to stick it in.

But I too don't like this at all. Not unless this is only being looked at being introduced after the first Mk1As are delivered on schedule with the fixed probe. Nothing should delay the Mk1A production and delivery schedule.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Karan M » 11 May 2019 00:51

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Bhaskar_T » 11 May 2019 19:47

About 2 months ago in March-2019, SP-15 and SP-16 had their first flights. Any info on SP-17, SP-18, when are we going to see them in air?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kakarat » 11 May 2019 20:59

Bhaskar_T wrote:About 2 months ago in March-2019, SP-15 and SP-16 had their first flights. Any info on SP-17, SP-18, when are we going to see them in air?


The next to fly will be SP-21, should be in the second half of this year. SP-17 to 20 are trainers and will take time

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby JTull » 11 May 2019 23:57

Bhaskar_T wrote:About 2 months ago in March-2019, SP-15 and SP-16 had their first flights. Any info on SP-17, SP-18, when are we going to see them in air?


SP-17 to SP-20 and SP-37 to SP-40 are trainers which will come after SP-36.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby negi » 12 May 2019 11:02

As great the Tejas is it cannot escape the limitations of it's compact/small size , all things attached to it as an after thought will have to incur significant trade offs , chasing omni role nonsense is a mirage and has no use beyond ppt giri , all military platforms that have served long and have been successful have been specialists and not generalists (which is what an omni role fighter is). Even Rafale M is no great carrier AC it's a compromise for it does not have same bring back capacity as the F-18 SH and has to land with a high nose pitched up which means pilot has a small window for aligning with the arrester wire now of course may be for the French Navy it's specs meet their needs and hence it is not for us or anyone to criticise it but from a technical pov if one goes with a single platform approach one will always incur more complexity and will have to make more trade offs. A military industrial complex like we have will have better chances of success and meeting user needs if we try to keep things simple and not overload same platform with both IAF and IN needs the idea of using same resources and achieving commonality between an IAF and IN fighter while alluring is very hard to achieve in real world specially for someone who has never built a supersonic fighter for both IAF and IN before and hence does not know the gotchas before hand.

What will happen with NLCA is same as Tejas Mk1 i.e. like the MWF the IN needs will result in NLCA 2 or whatever one may wish to call , to sound nice we would have learnt a great deal in the process (hopefully) .
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Singha » 12 May 2019 12:06

couldnt they have just stuck with huge mirage2000 type subsonic drop tanks if all they wanted was patrol endurance.

we have 400+ combat aircraft and 6 tankers , no $$ to get more, but no everyone must have tanker capability :rotfl:

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Cain Marko » 13 May 2019 10:01

Singha wrote:couldnt they have just stuck with huge mirage2000 type subsonic drop tanks if all they wanted was patrol endurance.

we have 400+ combat aircraft and 6 tankers , no $$ to get more, but no everyone must have tanker capability :rotfl:

The m2k efts are really massive, 1.5+ tons each. Doubt the Tejas could carry such bags under wing. Get more MKI with extra eft plumbing and have these act as tankers for Tejas.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby abhik » 13 May 2019 10:55

Each MKI probably has at most 1/10th the fuel (transferable), capacity of a single A330 MTTR. If we are serious about air refueling we'll have to pony up for a couple dozen dedicated big birds.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Manish_Sharma » 13 May 2019 11:53

Cain Marko wrote:
Singha wrote:couldnt they have just stuck with huge mirage2000 type subsonic drop tanks if all they wanted was patrol endurance.

we have 400+ combat aircraft and 6 tankers , no $$ to get more, but no everyone must have tanker capability :rotfl:

The m2k efts are really massive, 1.5+ tons each. Doubt the Tejas could carry such bags under wing.....


Reason m2k carries massive tanks is due to fuel guzzling M53 engine WHILE Tejas has fuel sipping GE 404IN engine so smaller tanks are enough

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 13 May 2019 17:25

Snecma M53-P2

Code: Select all

Specific fuel consumption:
0.90 (kg/daN.h) Dry engine thrust
2.10 (kg/daN.h) military thrust


General Electric F404

Code: Select all

Specific fuel consumption:
Military thrust: 0.81 lb/(lbf·h) (82.6 kg/(kN·h)
Full afterburner: 1.74 lb/(lbf·h) (177.5 kg/(kN·h)

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby tsarkar » 13 May 2019 20:13


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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby LakshmanPST » 16 May 2019 22:43

Indranil wrote:HAL is considering a retractable AAR for Mk1A. RFI is out.


I saw some random YouTube Defence channel video (not sure the information is credible)...
https://youtu.be/SNNAt89hH6Q
According to this video, retractable AAR probe is planned in MWF, not Mk1A...
If that's case, then Mk1A won't get delayed much...

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Karan M » 17 May 2019 11:59


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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby tsarkar » 17 May 2019 18:35


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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby brar_w » 17 May 2019 19:22


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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby tsarkar » 17 May 2019 20:52


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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby brar_w » 17 May 2019 21:29



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