Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2019 22:13

it is opposite fort abbas where their mighty khalid tanks were deployed. the terrain may be suitable for a tank thrust being dry and clear but not too deep sand and no major rivers or canals to trip over.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 11 Mar 2019 22:16

manjgu wrote::is it the nearest big town on border ..close to Bhawalpur ( JeM HQ) ?? thats the only link i can see... close to Bhatinda... maybe the strike corps goes thru into Pak thru Sri Ganganagar !!!!

Also a Defence Academy in the town.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2019 22:25

check the extent of BG lines in Rajasthan. other a few residual MG lines in mewar region(udaipur), the place is criss crossed by BG lines.

https://www.nwr.indianrailways.gov.in/u ... 20SIZE.pdf

also the DFC has added 2 more lines to the existing BG line(s)

Pak has railway lines really close to the border in punjab and in rahim yar khan.
the one line crossing the border is kokhrapar - a weekly train from karachi runs there.

a electric line comes to fort abbas

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2019 22:28

the mighty thar express. kokhrapar to munnabao

tank country for mongolian legions

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2019 22:36

after being closed for 20 years the branch line to fort abbas was restored to some shape in 2017

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 11 Mar 2019 22:41

Why do they 6-7 train tracks for a non running line?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Mar 2019 22:51

move tanks to the front

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2019 22:54

so far in youtube i see no evidence of electric locos in use in pak.
the one sample i saw looked like one of those old central railway DC locos hauling across the bhor ghats in the 1950s....

its all really diesel...the main pax diesel seems to be on called ZCU-30 and GE EVO diesels have also been purchased for heavy freight trains.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2019 22:56

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locomotives_of_Pakistan

they had 29 electric locos bought in 1960s. but now unusable because of theft of copper by the awaam.

https://abn397.wordpress.com/2015/07/23 ... -pakistan/

Shivaji · Post by **Shivaji** » 11 Mar 2019 23:11

Lot of diplomatic activity today it seems:

1) Saudi foreign minister had a short visit to us after meeting Pakis

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1105119417896075275

2) Modi ji called Turkey President

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1105132261853282304

3) Modi ji called Abu Dhabi crown prince

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1105125044571828224

4) Foreign secretary Vijay Gokhale called on US Secretray of State Pompeo

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1105120928357408768

5) Chinese Vice Foreign minister visited Pakistan few days back, but no visit to India.

https://twitter.com/PawanSe42685901/sta ... 9906929665

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 11 Mar 2019 23:14

What amuses me is the density of tracks in certain areas. Some of them are also dry/desert areas around SIndh. Wonder why we didnt straighten the border between khokhrapar, badin and naukot. GIven that many are dry areas, Arjun-T90 combo would find happy hunting grounds

salaam · Post by **salaam** » 11 Mar 2019 23:35

1- Sri Ganganagar is a staging area. There is much more to it though.

2- Nal (near bikaner), is an important AF base.

nam · Post by **nam** » 11 Mar 2019 23:38

The western border is made for war! Deserts, marsh, green fields..

If not for the nukes, we would had some TFTA level war every decade, made for TV.

3000 tanks each side, 600 & 300 jets, close to 2 million troops... would have made for WW2 level settings. A war junkie's dream.

Pity the Arjuns are not in numbers. There could have been OIF style dash in the sand with "embedded reporters"!

nam · Post by **nam** » 11 Mar 2019 23:55

For all we know there might be action going on as we speak !

As long as we don't announce what we did, Pak plays along. If India declares strikes, Pak is pressurized by it's abdul to response!

Ghafoor bhai posted about IAF intrusion in the Muzzafarbad sector, " dropped their payload and ran off"... I think he did not know about the Balakot site that happened at the same time! He must have been trying to hide the Muzzaffarabad strike!

Since India did not make too much noise about it... Pak conveniently forgot about it as well..

We have them in a war of attrition. Just need to increase the gun powder used on Pak position.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Mar 2019 23:56

almost no news about the strikes on the other two locations...

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 12 Mar 2019 00:02

https://twitter.com/Noetic_Karma/status ... 3617768451

भगुरायण
‏ @Noetic_Karma
2h2 hours ago

"where is second pilot"
"up there with (Pak)army"
Third pilot, probably beaten dead.

See the video. can someone translate.

nam · Post by **nam** » 12 Mar 2019 00:15

The full video is posted in the Mig 21 shoots F16 thread.

samsher · Post by **samsher** » 12 Mar 2019 01:11

manjgu wrote:what is the importance of Sri Ganganagar in Indo Pak context??

Just a nostalgic musing:
Have very vivid and fond memories of Sri Ganganagar. My dad's paltan (17 Maratha LI) was stationed there back in 1981-83
We lived in Bashas (houses / hutments with mud walls and cowdung "Lep") on the floor! The roof was tent material tarp!
Had a few storms where the part of the roof would be blown away and we would then cram inside one room which was miraculously saved. Entire paltan would come together and help to get things fixed.
We lived surrounded by mango groves and sugarcane fields, close to the Gang canal. I remember we had our first TV set there and with a 25 foot antenna, the only TV channel could get was PTV! The paki news anchors were household names. After the 82 asiad we started receiving DD transmissions.

From a strategic perspective, I believe we were part of 16 inf Div (Sudarshan chakra). It was (and still is?) HQ'd in SG.
We had quite a few units from various inf regts and an armored regt too. I remember my dad going on rece exercises and we had quite a few visits to tank battalions with a complimentary "sit in" inside a tank cockpit (probably a T-52).

#endnostalgicrant

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 12 Mar 2019 01:19

<OT> In '71 when we captured Khokhrapar station, the ticket packet was taken as a memento. I have one of those tickets with me. The full bundle was given to my maternal uncle. Desert war has its challenges and funny stories.

Trikaal · Post by **Trikaal** » 12 Mar 2019 01:23

OT question:
We have so far shot down 4 paki drones. What are we using to shoot these down? I hope it's not an aircraft coz that would be too expensive for these shitty DIY drones. Do we have an inexpensive technique to take down chinese quality spy drones?

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 12 Mar 2019 01:27

manjgu wrote:what is the importance of Sri Ganganagar in Indo Pak context??

Like the continuum transfunctioner from the movie 'Dude where's my car', it is a mysterious and powerful place and it's mystery is exceeded only by its power.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 12 Mar 2019 01:36

The trouble with tanks in desert is .. attack helicopters. The Rommel/Montgomery tamasha would be a total and rapid massacre today with attack helos on both sides. Rann of Kutch and Asal Uttar might also be decided by air supremacy if fought today. So I would caution against the "chai in RYK" dreams. Can happen, but only after pest-e-sha'eed of PAF and PA helicopters.

partha · Post by **partha** » 12 Mar 2019 02:54

Pretty strong statement this dated March 11th. "US stands with the people and Govt of India in its fight against terrorism". Also "... urgency of Pakistan to take meaningful action.."

On Feb 26th too there was a similar press release which also emphasized the above two points. Why again on March 11th? Something is being planned.

neeraj · Post by **neeraj** » 12 Mar 2019 05:15

https://twitter.com/republic/status/110 ... ecret.html

Audio report on the strike

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 Mar 2019 05:32

Trikaal wrote:OT question:
We have so far shot down 4 paki drones. What are we using to shoot these down? I hope it's not an aircraft coz that would be too expensive for these shitty DIY drones. Do we have an inexpensive technique to take down chinese quality spy drones?

IIRC, atleast 1 was by a Su-30 if the news report at that time is to be believed

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 12 Mar 2019 05:33

UlanBatori wrote:The trouble with tanks in desert is .. attack helicopters. The Rommel/Montgomery tamasha would be a total and rapid massacre today with attack helos on both sides. Rann of Kutch and Asal Uttar might also be decided by air supremacy if fought today. So I would caution against the "chai in RYK" dreams. Can happen, but only after pest-e-sha'eed of PAF and PA helicopters.

For a second i thought you're gonna say Camels with ATGM

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 12 Mar 2019 05:54

Forgot about that. That is for Baloch Freedom Fighters. But you are right: Imagine in the movie "Longewala" where the Pakis are shown stupidly sitting in line abreast in the dark for hours. If a few camels had snuck in the back and let loose with ATGMs, it would have been a duck-shoot: one tank per missile, and long before they even started turning their turrets around, it would have been all over. I think that in the Thar, camels will move much faster than tanks, and do so quietly.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 12 Mar 2019 05:55

Why did Pakis send drones to Sri Ganganagar, you ask? Simble onlee - Pakis have been following BRF for decades now and they want to check up on what Brigadier Shivinder Singh Randhawa and IBG 606 are up to...

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=877&start=200

Read my narrative of The Battle of Sahiwal. If the connection between the link above and Sri Ganganagar is not apparent, please put Sahiwal and Sri Ganganagar in Google Maps and Shvi's jumping off point will emerge

By the way, in page 1 of that thread, in "The War Council - IV", a character called Shri Rajit Kumar Dhaval makes an appearance. Any coincidence with living personalities was strictly intentional.

Bishwa · Post by **Bishwa** » 12 Mar 2019 06:47

Bhatinda is the HQ of Indian X Corp. That Corp would be a good candidate for cold start since it is reputed to have 2 RAPIDs (as per open source info) and an Armd Brigade. The total armoured regiments in that Corp would be equal to an Armoured Division if we calculate

If you look at the distribution shown here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Corps_(India)
It will explain why so many drones are being shot down in SG and Bikaner area

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 12 Mar 2019 06:56

Do Pakis think an Indian Cold Start is coming? What has happened with the tanks escaping from Sialkot cantonment? Overall, the internet/comm shutdown and cellphone seizures in POK and Khyber-Pakthoonwa indicate something big brewing. Also tie into the reports from Balochistan last week (well after the air skirmish) of PA commandeering any transports and rushing out eastwards towards "LOC".

What would be the Indian reason given, for a massive ground invasion (because that is what is needed)? To push the LOC 30km and create a buffer zone? I am not able to understand the reason for the Paki panic, unless **THEY** are planning something which will trigger an all-out attack from India.

Frankly I cannot see India take any such all-out action under present circumstances. So what are the Pakis panicked about? Unless they have completely "lost it" and are going for their usual "Dilli chalo" or hoping to invade Srinagar/ cut off at Chaamb, there is only one other explanation:

Coup/ mutiny in progress.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 12 Mar 2019 06:58

Also, during Parakram, Lt Gen Kapil Vij concentrated lead elements of 2 Corps somewhere close to and west of this area. This area has all the markings of being a strong candidate for a jump off point of an armoured thrust westwards (although in all honesty the same could be said for some other areas just farther to its south.)

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 12 Mar 2019 07:02

The beauty of cold start is in its unpredictability. Unlike during Parakram, there is no need to move the equivalent of a small town to a concentration area. IBGs have the same functionality of breaching a heavily defended front, and at multiple points. Pakis can never be sure anymore.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 12 Mar 2019 07:07

Pakistanis are perfectly capable of starting a war in the middle of elections, hoping that India will be too confused to respond.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 12 Mar 2019 07:16

The tanks in Sialkot seemed totally wacko. POK comm blackout is ominous (may indicate a lot of interesting Indian actions, causing major decapitation of the jehad). But pulling troops out of Balochistan in a hurry seems crazy: if anything they need much more strength there.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 12 Mar 2019 07:52

UlanBatori wrote:The tanks in Sialkot seemed totally wacko. POK comm blackout is ominous (may indicate a lot of interesting Indian actions, causing major decapitation of the jehad). But pulling troops out of Balochistan in a hurry seems crazy: if anything they need much more strength there.

Those troops were there to protect CPEC, so whatever caused them to move has to be a real threat, unlike the dramabaazi Mushrat did to blackmail Unkil during Parakram. The question is, where's the Indian threat? Can't be the strike corps - they would still look like an armoured kumbh mela when forward deployed and the whole world would be screaming about it by now. So it has to be in the hole of silence that PoK has become.

I confess to having trouble falling asleep letting my imagination run wild. It's painful really, because part of me reads the signals and interprets them as things winding down, but another part takes these straws in the wind and hopes some serious salami slicing is underway... my current favorite runs thus: PAF had the temerity to try to bomb an Indian Army brigade. They missed because of incompetence and cowardice, but their hearts are black and IAF needs to pay a return visit to a Paki Brigade. Now LoC probably has the densest military deployments in the world, and targets for IAF will be rich and plentiful... maybe IAF already paid the return visit, and now fresh reinforcements are needed for the bomb fodder in some place like Bhimber or Taobat or... No. Must stop dreaming. Must stop hoping.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 12 Mar 2019 07:58

Y I Patel ji, any chance of a new scenario based on the present events?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Mar 2019 08:06

apart from the mass of IA and IAF bases in punjab-haryana belt, I also believe suratgarh is a hangout place for our armour and the nearby "mahajan ranges" seems like edge of the thar where a lot of exercises take place. under guise of our never ending summer/winter/monsoon trials, a lot of resources can innocently gather in that region. blame it on arjun

gentlemen I come bearing news...

the paks have been looking for a heavy MBT AL-HAIDER for a few years now to supplement the lighter khalids. various ukrainian, chinese and turkiye options have been evaluated. the pick of that limited litter is the turkiye Otokar Altay which tips the scales at 65t all up. samsung techwin was the design consultant so lot of automation and K2 kala panther looks. plus turkiye arms industry is traditionally close to germany ecosystem. the main issue is the engine - both MTU and Japan have rejected the idea that turkiye can export the Altay with their engines. so though the Paks are salivating and drooling over it, its a no can do so far. they might eventually go with ukraine because they do have it all inhouse including a 1500hp engine if funds are provided. there is talk these heavy tanks will be "nodes" in a network incl GMTI platforms and lead khalids across the desert safely handing off targets

in this video you will see Altay on desert and snow trials, firing on the move etc ... IFF the paks get it or anything as good, expect a sudden push to signoff on a massive arjun mk2 production run

I am breaking a coconut daily infront of saraswati maa that they get 500 altays asap on friendship prices.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 12 Mar 2019 08:20

All we need to do is to ensure, using soft power/commercial power at our disposal, that pakis pay full market price for their products. Only the Chinese have a reason to give stuff to the pakis at friendly prices, even then they have means to extract their pound of flesh.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 Mar 2019 08:24

Y I Patel wrote:Also, during Parakram, Lt Gen Kapil Vij concentrated lead elements of 2 Corps somewhere close to and west of this area. This area has all the markings of being a strong candidate for a jump off point of an armoured thrust westwards (although in all honesty the same could be said for some other areas just farther to its south.)

lead armoured elements were west of the IB is what I have heard from someone who was part of that 'exercise'.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 12 Mar 2019 08:25

Kashi

Sorry but not right now.