Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

anishns
BRFite
Posts: 1330
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 09:43
Location: being victim onlee...

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby anishns » 07 Mar 2019 21:32

Singha wrote:17 years have passed but place looks like a time warp. a few like mohd fahim, jalaluddin haqqani, burhanuddin rabbani have passed away or assassinated but most of the rest are there - atta mohd noor, abdul malik pehlwan, ishmael khan, gulbuddin hekmatyar, abdul rashid dostum....


Bulbuddin Ghusaomat Yaar!

Ah the good old BRF days :D

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66599
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 07 Mar 2019 21:36

ANI
Verified account
@ANI
39m39 minutes ago
More
General Raymond A Thomas III, Commander of US Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) called upon and interacted with Indian Army Chief General Bipin Rawat today and discussed issues of strategic and mutual concern.

Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13262
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 07 Mar 2019 21:46

raymondo has seen the satellite images...
wonder which "friendly country" helped with that... who has sats that can take the right pics?
US, Ru, Fr, Israel... now which of these are actually friendly and would help?

Y I Patel
BRFite
Posts: 595
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Y I Patel » 07 Mar 2019 21:47

Pankajs is a grounded poster who usually adds value to discussions. I don’t know what he posted that caused him to be banned, but this is a request for lenience keeping past posts in mind.

khan
BRFite
Posts: 551
Joined: 12 Feb 2003 12:31
Location: Tx

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby khan » 07 Mar 2019 21:51

Singha wrote:ANI
Verified account
@ANI
39m39 minutes ago
More
General Raymond A Thomas III, Commander of US Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) called upon and interacted with Indian Army Chief General Bipin Rawat today and discussed issues of strategic and mutual concern.

Nuke grab?

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66599
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 07 Mar 2019 22:02

Lalmohan wrote:raymondo has seen the satellite images...
wonder which "friendly country" helped with that... who has sats that can take the right pics?
US, Ru, Fr, Israel... now which of these are actually friendly and would help?


imagery resolution seems one area where technology has been unable to compress the size of telescopes and cameras needed.
astronomical telescopes continue to be huge.
KH11 sats were the size of a Volvo B7R bus (essentially the hubble telescope turned 180' since hubble was a spare B-team kit given to nasa by dod)

we do need to get our optical resolution down to 10cm range.... I think we are at 50cm now. most of the commercial stuff out there is 50cm...digitalglobe may have one 41cm..... GOTUS has banned commercial cos from buying components that provide things like 25cm....

the 4" res (10cm) images provided to us would be from a large iMINT satellite.

the digitalglobe worldview3 30cm sample. useless for deeply analyzing down to house and people level. ok for scanning military targets.

Image

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66599
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 07 Mar 2019 22:16

russias latest litter seems to be around 30cm but probably better in secret for govt use.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persona_(satellite)
7 tons weight

people are trying to find workarounds using SAR satellites , but like a cheap COTS sound bar or 5+1 cannot match a plush wood and vacuum tube based bespoke sound deck + floor standing speakers , the pure optical huge telescopes, weather permitting will always give the best imagery.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66599
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 07 Mar 2019 22:20

ANI Digital
Verified account
@ani_digital
4h4 hours ago
More
In a significant move by Pakistan, visa requests of a United Nations team to interview 26/11 Mumbai terror attack mastermind Hafiz Saeed residing in Pakistan were rejected by the country's consulate in New York.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66599
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 07 Mar 2019 22:22

imo the time is fast coming when we will need to go after these deep terrorist bastions in western blochistan and deep in punjab.

IAF cannot fly so far in and deliver payload without getting to a serious fight. we dont have B2 or X-plane ELO platforms.

need to use brahmos and dare TSP to respond ..... we dont have terror camps .... so any attack on mil bases should invite ground and air blowback.

there will be collateral damage, but sensible people will move out of any areas in and around these "leadership compounds"

khan
BRFite
Posts: 551
Joined: 12 Feb 2003 12:31
Location: Tx

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby khan » 07 Mar 2019 22:28

Singha wrote:ANI Digital
Verified account
@ani_digital
4h4 hours ago
More
In a significant move by Pakistan, visa requests of a United Nations team to interview 26/11 Mumbai terror attack mastermind Hafiz Saeed residing in Pakistan were rejected by the country's consulate in New York.

Good. This type of nonsense will just give India cover for more aggression.

sudeepj
BRFite
Posts: 1669
Joined: 27 Nov 2008 11:25

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby sudeepj » 07 Mar 2019 22:31

Singha wrote:imo the time is fast coming when we will need to go after these deep terrorist bastions in western blochistan and deep in punjab.

IAF cannot fly so far in and deliver payload without getting to a serious fight. we dont have B2 or X-plane ELO platforms.

need to use brahmos and dare TSP to respond ..... we dont have terror camps .... so any attack on mil bases should invite ground and air blowback.

there will be collateral damage, but sensible people will move out of any areas in and around these "leadership compounds"


Attacking trash like azhar and sayeed is hardly worth the price of the missile. The attack should be on the Pakistani elite interests. The problem in pakistan is structural. It needs a new social contract and a new constitution. Our actions should be such that make that outcome possible and inevitable.

Rudradev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3446
Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Rudradev » 07 Mar 2019 22:32

Y I Patel wrote:Pankajs is a grounded poster who usually adds value to discussions. I don’t know what he posted that caused him to be banned, but this is a request for lenience keeping past posts in mind.


+1.

komal
BRFite
Posts: 450
Joined: 29 Oct 2007 14:47

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby komal » 07 Mar 2019 22:41

sudeepj wrote:
Attacking trash like azhar and sayeed is hardly worth the price of the missile. The attack should be on the Pakistani elite interests. The problem in pakistan is structural. It needs a new social contract and a new constitution. Our actions should be such that make that outcome possible and inevitable.


+108

I also believe that appears to be the GOI strategy. Not an expert on these matters but the NO FLY zone now in existence in Eastern Pakistan must be having some economic consequences for the elite.

Trikaal
BRFite
Posts: 559
Joined: 19 Jul 2017 08:01

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Trikaal » 07 Mar 2019 22:47

UlanBatori wrote:And India should put up Sopwith Camels to patrol the LOC. Excellent endurance. Put a BVR missile on each and PAF is kaput. Try out-turning a Camel in an F-16 or a Bandaar, and try matching the 50kmph terrain-hugging capability. They can be based right there at the edge of no-pakis-land.
Anyway as is well-demonstrated, one Missile WArning and the Pakis turn tail and flee on max A/B, conveniently illuminating the target for the Mach 4 IR AAMs. And they bail out anyway long b4 the missile hits.

Watching camels just out of reach all day would be torture for these Pakis. Camel to a Paki looks like what Anushka Sharma looks like to an Indian. Not to mention we would have Pakis trying to steal our camels to do unmentionable acts.

Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7696
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 07 Mar 2019 23:32

Singha wrote:imo the time is fast coming when we will need to go after these deep terrorist bastions in western blochistan and deep in punjab.

IAF cannot fly so far in and deliver payload without getting to a serious fight. we dont have B2 or X-plane ELO platforms.

need to use brahmos and dare TSP to respond ..... we dont have terror camps .... so any attack on mil bases should invite ground and air blowback.

there will be collateral damage, but sensible people will move out of any areas in and around these "leadership compounds"


I believe 2 MiG-25s are still in storage. Perhaps they can be refurbished. Or India buys a few MiG-31s directly from Ivan. I’m sure comrade Austin and Philip have wet chuddis at this thought.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66599
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 07 Mar 2019 23:34

https://www.caapakistan.com.pk/upload/M ... 202015.pdf

PAk charges 0.88USD per km of overflight charges for a typical 787 sized plane
a typical E-W crossing is around 700km. around 600 USD.

around 500-1000 flights would be using the crossing daily.

so TSP is losing around 300K-600K USD daily on this.

there was also some corruption going on. the fees must have been deposited directly to elite accounts
https://tribune.com.pk/story/722089/ove ... -12-years/

sudeepj
BRFite
Posts: 1669
Joined: 27 Nov 2008 11:25

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby sudeepj » 07 Mar 2019 23:42

komal wrote:
sudeepj wrote:
Attacking trash like azhar and sayeed is hardly worth the price of the missile. The attack should be on the Pakistani elite interests. The problem in pakistan is structural. It needs a new social contract and a new constitution. Our actions should be such that make that outcome possible and inevitable.


+108

I also believe that appears to be the GOI strategy. Not an expert on these matters but the NO FLY zone now in existence in Eastern Pakistan must be having some economic consequences for the elite.


There are economic consequences, but I **feel**, that Pakistan is a class based, feudal Islamic society. It does not matter to Pakistani elite if they become poorer in relative terms, as long as they are still kings of that trash heap. After all, they are ready to eat grass, as long as they can fight that 1000 year war. They ARE eating grass as in many parameters, they are worse than war torn African countries. In the past 35 years, as the avg Indian's GDP has changed from 60% of an avg Pakistani, to 125% of an avg Pakistani, they have only sunk deeper into the morass of Jihad and Islamism.

As long as they can wed 4 ayeshas, as long as they can beat said ayeshas, as long as they are at the head of the namaz, as long as they can put on a sherwani, some relative depreciation of their assets is tolerable. What is not tolerable is the Hindu kafir getting ahead of them, even in fields as irrelevant to strategic concerns as, say, feminine beauty. Or martial exploits. Its intolerable if India gets into NSG or security council membership.

Be that as it may, Ill try to expand on the structural issues with Pakistan that prevent a new social contract, a change from Pakistan being a Qilla of Islam, to Pakistani being a prosperous home for Pakistanis. Only if this transformation happens, can we count on measures that have economic impacts changing their behavior. If Pakistan is a Qilla of Islam, Islam does not need improved Infant Mortality to survive! In fact, the hold of Islam can be seen to be strengthened under economic duress, such as in Palestine, which has only become more Islamic after repeated assaults, 'mowing the grass' campaigns, by Israel.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66599
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 07 Mar 2019 23:49

bangladesh has adopted the other model of trying to be a normal country under hasina, and seems to have crossed the TSPian per capita GDP

Image

partha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3989
Joined: 02 Jul 2010 15:25

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby partha » 08 Mar 2019 00:06

khan wrote:
Singha wrote:ANI
Verified account
@ANI
39m39 minutes ago
More
General Raymond A Thomas III, Commander of US Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) called upon and interacted with Indian Army Chief General Bipin Rawat today and discussed issues of strategic and mutual concern.

Nuke grab?

Don't think it's nuke grab..or may be it is who knows but definitely an interesting meeting. US NSA spoke to NSA Doval yesterday, third time after Pulwama and after what looks like de-escalation. Something's cooking.

khan
BRFite
Posts: 551
Joined: 12 Feb 2003 12:31
Location: Tx

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby khan » 08 Mar 2019 00:08

Singha wrote:imo the time is fast coming when we will need to go after these deep terrorist bastions in western blochistan and deep in punjab.

IAF cannot fly so far in and deliver payload without getting to a serious fight. we dont have B2 or X-plane ELO platforms.

need to use brahmos and dare TSP to respond ..... we dont have terror camps .... so any attack on mil bases should invite ground and air blowback.

there will be collateral damage, but sensible people will move out of any areas in and around these "leadership compounds"


I don’t even think there will be TSP response beyond what we have already seen.

All their non-nuclear missiles are imprecise subsonic junk. Even their ballistic missiles (which they use for nuclear delivery) are of uncertain quality. This is why those F-16’s are Crown Jewels - F-16 remains their only reliable nuclear delivery vehicle.

IMO, all they can do is another air-strike attempt, which would not be bad since it gives the IAF another opportunity to thin their Air Force. Lobbing a few missiles over and downing some planes in return might not be a bad strategy.

mmasand
BRFite
Posts: 540
Joined: 19 May 2009 23:46

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby mmasand » 08 Mar 2019 03:18

It's way past midnight and not the time for jokes but, a former Baakinstani goat herding diplomat Zafar Hilaly, on national television, claimed the 'second' pilot captured is an .... Israeli AF pilot.

Does anyone have recommendations for a shrink in Islamabad?

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7613
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 08 Mar 2019 03:19

Zaid “SAD” Hamid aka Lal Topi

Raveen
BRFite
Posts: 590
Joined: 18 Jun 2008 00:51
Location: 1/2 way between the gutter and the stars
Contact:

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 08 Mar 2019 03:20

mmasand wrote:It's way past midnight and not the time for jokes but, a former Baakinstani goat herding diplomat Zafar Hilaly, on national television, claimed the 'second' pilot captured is an .... Israeli AF pilot.

Does anyone have recommendations for a shrink in Islamabad?


May I recommend a Jewish shrink?

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12052
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 08 Mar 2019 03:28

How would a Shrink define Reality in Bakistan? :LOL Let's try:
Do u hate ur mother? Of course! Doesn't everyone?
Do u hate ur father? Which one?
Pls take inkblot test: Anyone who does not see an AK47 or grenade or IED is abnormal.
Do you think..? What is THINK?

U see a pair of green parachutes floating down. Two traumatized guys shaking in fear come up, yelling: Pakistan Zindabad! We escaped from the Yindians!
Do you:
a) Race home to get a pair of blankets and some diapers for them
b) Call Emergency Services
c) Call Abdul's Taxicab to see if they want to be taken to hospital
d) Call your neighbors to get pitchforks and sticks and beat them to death
Is this a joke? (d) of course! Plus rob them of their wallets before beating them to death

Rudradev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3446
Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Rudradev » 08 Mar 2019 03:38

What about the possibility that the two PAF pilots were *deliberately* offed by embedded ISI agents shortly after landing? And their deaths were simply blamed on an addled lynch mob of POKashmiris after the fact? I mean the mob could have beaten them up, sure... but the deed could actually have been done quietly in an ambulance thereafter.

Loose lips sink ships and all that, na? After ISPR going to all the trouble to hide the wreckage of an F-solah, one of these guys could have blabbed the truth at any time. WHAT a loss to ech and dee, if it got out that an Indian Soviet-era-jet had taken down the pride of the Fizzle Ya. These are the people who left thousands of uniformed bodies on the slopes of Kargil and Drass without acknowledgment. You think the deaths of two (loser) airmen would matter at all compared to the prime directive of maintaining an invincible image at all costs?

Amber G.
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6519
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Amber G. » 08 Mar 2019 04:34

Glass still x% empty or (100-x)% full depends on the point of view.. but ॐ नमो शिवायं

Son of Masood Azhar among 44 arrested

From The national Express Tribune:
ISLAMABAD: The government in a major crackdown on Tuesday arrested 44 under-observation members of proscribed organisations, including some close relatives of Maulana Masood Azhar, Minister of State for Interior Shehryar Afridi said.

Flanked by Interior Secretary Major (retd) Azam Suleman Khan at a news conference in the federal capital, the minister said the action had been taken under the National Action Plan (NAP) that would continue for two weeks.

They said those detained by the authorities included Maulana Masood Azhar’s son, Hamad Azhar, and a close relative Mufti Abdul Rauf.

“We have launched a crackdown against proscribed organisations and have taken 44 individuals into custody, including Mufti Abdul Rauf and Hammad Azhar,” Afridi told reporters.

Afridi emphasised that the government was :shock: “not taking this action under pressure” :shock: from anyone. “We are investigating them and if we get more evidence, more proof against them, they will be proceeded against according to law and if we don’t get any proof their detention will end,” he said.

“Actions are being taken against all proscribed outfits without any discrimination,” the state minister added. “The rule of law will be implemented in New Pakistan. Neither Pakistan’s land will be used against anyone, nor will any country be allowed to intervene in our affairs.”

Replying to a question, the minister said that Pakistan was acting against the banned groups in its own interest. “This is Pakistan’s decision,” he said, adding that action under NAP would continue and the progress would be reviewed on a fortnightly basis.

Pakistan takes another step towards reducing tensions with India

On the occasion, the interior secretary said that the action was being taken across-the-board and that it was not against one or two organisations. He said that the authorities concerned would not “demonstrate reluctance” in case they have to seize properties and bank accounts of any outfit.

Responding to a question, the interior secretary acknowledged that some of the people, who had been taken into custody, under the preventive detention were named in a dossier on the recent Pulwama attack handed to Pakistan by India.

At a separate news conference, Federal Minister for Information Fawad Chaudhry reiterated the government’s resolve to initiate massive crackdown against terrorism.

He said that steps were being taken to devise an administrative and economic plan to curb extremism in the country.

On the recent threat of a war with India, Chaudhry commended the steps taken by Prime Minister Imran Khan, saying that such a situation had been averted. “Unlike a segment of the Indian population, we are not whipping war hysteria,” he added. {Besides we do not want to get whipped :rotfl: )


Amber G.
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6519
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Amber G. » 08 Mar 2019 04:53

Long ago yours truly penned famous lyrics in a brf dhaga .. (with apologies to Mukesh and poet Prem Dhawan) .. a line from that was ..

"हम लातों के देव, हमें लातें ही लातें खानी। . हम पाकिस्तानी!!!"...
(We are Pakistanis - We are master of being kicked and we like kicks and kicks and to be kicked before talks..)

Looks like those kicks may be having some desired effect ... blog from Pak's msm ..
Why must Pakistan wait for international kicks to mount before we tackle extremism?

Image
(AFP Photo: 44 people affiliated with extremist organisations, including Masood Azhar’s son and close relatives, have been arrested)

Posting in full..
The state has finally come out of a long slumber and has launched an operation to eliminate the religious extremist groups who are allegedly using Pakistan’s soil to create disturbances in India, Iran and Afghanistan. In the wake of the rift between Pakistan and India, this can be termed as a positive development since Pakistan is now keeping its word and investigating these non-state actors. {Obvious but Wow}

According to Minister of State for Interior Shehryar Afridi, 44 people affiliated with extremist organisations, including Masood Azhar’s son and close relatives, have been arrested. The matter is under investigation and further action will be taken as more evidence comes to light.

Even with these arrests, Pakistan needs to be cautious about every move they make. It will be very hard to eliminate extremist outfits like Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) and Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), who have deep roots in our country. These groups are active in society and have numerous sympathisers. Going against them and eliminating them will require unconventional ways, perhaps the same tactics that were used to eliminate non-state actors who were challenging the writ of the state. This might prove to be more difficult than Operation Zarb-e-Azb, primarily because these organisations have become a part of our social fabric over the years.
After a long time of being grey-listed by Financial Action Task Force (FATF), Pakistan has finally been issued an ultimatum. Pakistan’s stand in the global community has seen a fall because of the country’s inaction against the United Nations (UN) designated terrorists and groups residing in the country. From Donald Trump telling Pakistan to ‘do more’ to India pointing fingers across the border after the Pulwama attack, there is no option left but to address the elephant in the room. However, the question remains: why do we have to wait for international pressure to mount in order to tackle these extremists groups, which are a threat to our own existence and peace?

Pakistan has time and again stated that it does not support extremists to fulfil its strategic goals. The world, however, is not ready to accept this narrative anymore. Our country has for so long stayed silent on this matter because these groups have not wreaked havoc in Pakistan, while we have tackled other groups in the mean time. The video of JeM, where the organisation claimed responsibility of the Pulwama attack, has already pushed both Pakistan and India to the brink of war. If these groups can allegedly launch attacks on foreign soil without any help, one can only imagine their reaction when the state takes action against them.

This could have been done much earlier and we could have avoided these groups spreading their narrative and becoming stronger. Just like the Army Public School (APS) attack shook us out of our ‘good Taliban, bad Taliban’ mindset, we need to understand that there are no good extremists or bad extremists. Masood Azhar and Hafiz Saeed enjoy the backing of the masses; even some renowned celebrities have voiced their support for them, mainly due to their anti-India agenda. This should not be the criteria to consider an extremist harmless. Pakistan needs to act against extremist groups who use religion and patriotism as shields to carry attacks anywhere.

If we adopt half measures while still picking out ‘good extremists’ from bad ones, we will not only be unable to eradicate extremism from our country but will also be stuck in global isolation. The state and the society need to decide whether they want to create ideas of Stephen Hawkings and Steve Jobs or they want to preserve the teachings of Saeed and Azhar.

It was only a matter of time that the powers that be realised these narratives will hurt us in the end and it is truly commendable that we are finally taking a step in the right direction. However, if the state is serious about eliminating extremist groups then there needs to be a consensus between the political and military leadership. Therefore, this time around, there needs to be a clear and agreed resolution to get rid of these rotten narratives and extremist outfits once and for all.

Pakistan doesn’t have a choice anymore and in order to survive in the modern world and still have the support of the international community, it needs to clean its own backyard. As of now, Pakistan has taken control of 182 seminaries and mosques and detained around 121 people who are under observation. While we are cleaning our house, there are hopefully measures in place to counter any protest or retaliation from the supporters of these groups. For the sake of this country, let’s hope it doesn’t come to that
.

(Imad Zafar writes both in Urdu and English -- the very fact that these views are published in Pak newspapers shows that Kicks (लातें) have spooked them a little)

Amber G.
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6519
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Amber G. » 08 Mar 2019 05:46

Rudradev wrote:What about the possibility that the two PAF pilots were *deliberately* offed by embedded ISI agents shortly after landing? And their deaths were simply blamed on an addled lynch mob of POKashmiris after the fact? I mean the mob could have beaten them up, sure... but the deed could actually have been done quietly in an ambulance thereafter.

Loose lips sink ships and all that, na? After ISPR going to all the trouble to hide the wreckage of an F-solah, one of these guys could have blabbed the truth at any time. WHAT a loss to ech and dee, if it got out that an Indian Soviet-era-jet had taken down the pride of the Fizzle Ya. These are the people who left thousands of uniformed bodies on the slopes of Kargil and Drass without acknowledgment. You think the deaths of two (loser) airmen would matter at all compared to the prime directive of maintaining an invincible image at all costs?


I heard a similar story from some one - an amateur (ham radio) enthusiast who monitors Pak emergency services radio frequencies...

There was an urgent "911" type call to Pak Army/police headquarters: ..

"Mayday Mayday ..This is Abdulxyz, we see "do bande" (two characters) who came down via parachutes from the sky"
PHQ - "Go investigate"
Abdulxyz - " Those look like "apna airforce bande" (belongs to out PAF) - but they are now surrounded by mob ... they are being thrashed."
PHQ - "Go arrest them"
Abdulxyz - "But..But.. we are only two here.. send back up .. difficult to control the mob .. guys look really bad.."
PHQ - "We will send backup .. but intervene NOW!!"
Abdulxyz = "Situation is really bad .. those guys are all beaten up.. REAL bad .. my partner thinks they are DEAD... send back up.."
PHQ - " How bad can it be ? One of you go there! ..Are you sure they are dead? "
There is static on the radio..
45 seconds later one clearly hears two shots which sounded like came from G3A3..
Abdulxyz --" My partner says he is sure they are dead!"

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7613
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 08 Mar 2019 05:58

Rudradev wrote:What about the ...

Sent you email Rudradev-ji :)

Katare
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2516
Joined: 02 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Katare » 08 Mar 2019 07:34

Amber G. wrote:
Rudradev wrote:What about the possibility that the two PAF pilots were *deliberately* offed by embedded ISI agents shortly after landing? And their deaths were simply blamed on an addled lynch mob of POKashmiris after the fact? I mean the mob could have beaten them up, sure... but the deed could actually have been done quietly in an ambulance thereafter.

Loose lips sink ships and all that, na? After ISPR going to all the trouble to hide the wreckage of an F-solah, one of these guys could have blabbed the truth at any time. WHAT a loss to ech and dee, if it got out that an Indian Soviet-era-jet had taken down the pride of the Fizzle Ya. These are the people who left thousands of uniformed bodies on the slopes of Kargil and Drass without acknowledgment. You think the deaths of two (loser) airmen would matter at all compared to the prime directive of maintaining an invincible image at all costs?


I heard a similar story from some one - an amateur (ham radio) enthusiast who monitors Pak emergency services radio frequencies...

There was an urgent "911" type call to Pak Army/police headquarters: ..

"Mayday Mayday ..This is Abdulxyz, we see "do bande" (two characters) who came down via parachutes from the sky"
PHQ - "Go investigate"
Abdulxyz - " Those look like "apna airforce bande" (belongs to out PAF) - but they are now surrounded by mob ... they are being thrashed."
PHQ - "Go arrest them"
Abdulxyz - "But..But.. we are only two here.. send back up .. difficult to control the mob .. guys look really bad.."
PHQ - "We will send backup .. but intervene NOW!!"
Abdulxyz = "Situation is really bad .. those guys are all beaten up.. REAL bad .. my partner thinks they are DEAD... send back up.."
PHQ - " How bad can it be ? One of you go there! ..Are you sure they are dead? "
There is static on the radio..
45 seconds later one clearly hears two shots which sounded like came from G3A3..
Abdulxyz --" My partner says he is sure they are dead!"


Somehow they managed to suppress all the videos and pictures from reaching social media.

GopiD
BRFite
Posts: 138
Joined: 18 Jul 2011 14:57

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby GopiD » 08 Mar 2019 07:54

Y I Patel wrote:Pankajs is a grounded poster who usually adds value to discussions. I don’t know what he posted that caused him to be banned, but this is a request for lenience keeping past posts in mind.


+1

Pankajs has been one of the saner voices in many chaotic times. Would request Mods to please reconsider the ban.
Thanks

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19749
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby chetak » 08 Mar 2019 08:30

mmasand wrote:It's way past midnight and not the time for jokes but, a former Baakinstani goat herding diplomat Zafar Hilaly, on national television, claimed the 'second' pilot captured is an .... Israeli AF pilot.

Does anyone have recommendations for a shrink in Islamabad?


hilaly is of iranian descent.

in sectarian pakilund, his time is fast approaching.

shrink is a far cry.

For what they have in mind, the sunni jedahis will use shrink wrap.

Bishwa
BRFite
Posts: 303
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Bishwa » 08 Mar 2019 09:13

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... y-5616595/

This article quotes unnamed officers to indicate the warheads had 70-80 kg explosives.

syam
BRFite
Posts: 495
Joined: 31 Jan 2017 00:13

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby syam » 08 Mar 2019 09:14

IMO this episode exposed many issues within our country.

All we did is one airstrike in paki territory. Things went out of hand at the first moment of the conflict. There is no control over information flow. It's so open. It's like GoI has no idea how to function as government in such critical situation. One simply shouldn't expect people to stay put when war is going on. It seems like we got used to peacetime so much, can't function outside the peace zone.

In older times, the warrior generally belonged to one particular community. The social impact of any loss used to be isolated to particular clan. Have to admire our ancestors in situations like this.

Another glaring issue is, the delay in response to any provocation. Too long meetings, and such tunnel type way of handling things. The GoI says something, and forces follow it to the T. No flexibility at all. Seriously, If this type policy is used in such a war like situations, things will go out of hand. Give 30 mins to the enemy, he will come up with new strategy. Give him 1 day, kiss good bye to any strategic gain. Real life battle is not story book white knight battle. People in ruling class should wake up and take notice of this disaster in making.

War should be part of the nation's journey. The people should prepare for every possibility. Handling grief and keeping the cool should be the new norm. Eternal peace doesn't exist.

p.s. pankajs, if you are reading this, I admit my 60% patriotic folks disappeared into thin air. Peeps chickened out at first drop of the blood. :)

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66599
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 08 Mar 2019 09:55

Bishwa wrote:https://indianexpress.com/article/india/balakot-strike-each-warhead-had-70-80-kg-net-explosive-quantity-5616595/

This article quotes unnamed officers to indicate the warheads had 70-80 kg explosives.


this confirms the Dileep-Raj47 theorem that 250lb weapon like SPICE250 with AP munition(ball bearings) or SAAW was used.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66599
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 08 Mar 2019 09:59

belatedly some IA reforms were signed off by DM yesterday. it includes creation of a hybrid war and social media cell in AHQ which various well wishers have been twittering about for ages now.

AHQ staff levels are also being downsized ...

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 309644.cms

NEW DELHI: In a major move, Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman has approved the first batch of reforms in the Army which include relocation of 229 officers from the Army headquarters, creation of a new post of deputy chief for military operations and strategic planning, and setting up new wings for vigilance and human rights issues, official sources said Thursday.

Finalised after 12 independent studies, the transformative reforms in the Army are being implemented to make the 1.3 millio ..

Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/68309644.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

The defence minister also approved creation of a new information warfare wing in keeping the needs of the future battlefield, hybrid warfare and social media reality, the sources said

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18249
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 08 Mar 2019 10:11

Rahul M wrote:
Karan M wrote:At the time of the 2nd Cope India or thereabouts, I remember reading an USAF pilots interview of his "Cope India experience" .. this was an interview to a USAF affiliated mag. He had gone up against IAF MiG-29s & was clearly shaken by the experience.

He said, to paraphrase "I'd launch one, they'd launch one, and we were both scoring hits equally, we were losing aircraft at a rate which was not good. This is not how we want to fight, they were good and we don't want to fight like this". In short, the USAF does not want to go to battle with a peer, on equal terms and take casualties, it is madness & hence the F-22 and F-35 (which I suspect will also be shown up in real world conditions against a well trained adversary!).

But take a moment and think about what his quote meant about the IAF.

Then the BR archives should have the entire transcript of the 2USAF pilots from Cope 2 and what they thought of the IAF.

I remember this. The pilots were in f16.net IIRC and an enterprising BRFite Jcage found the posts. One had f16.net forum username moose or moose69 or something like that.


Good memory saar! :)
There was also a very embarassing revelation by a British journo who visited the F-16 training academy in the US where the PAF pilots had been sent. The guys apparently were abysmal by general standards and were the pick of the Pak AF. USAF guys spent all their time cribbing about how to teach guys who wouldnt clear basic training in any decent air force. This happened right after the Cope exercises, PAF fanbois were apoplectic. Much fun was had by some disreputable folks. :mrgreen:
Also, probably explains why the dunderheads fired all their AMRAAMs at RMax1 and then spent their time backslapping each other in TSP land. Idiots. :lol:

BSR Murthy
BRFite
Posts: 149
Joined: 02 Apr 2003 12:31
Location: Texas

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby BSR Murthy » 08 Mar 2019 10:27

The communication and controlling of the narrative by the GOI was suboptimal at best. Don't say anything about results directly or through proxies unless you have visuals or other verifiable hard evidence. It is not the question of respecting the government or the armed forces or being less than patriotic if one asks questions. Of course the usual coterie of anti-nationals will criticize no matter what, but, it would be unwise to think patriotic Indians have unlimited patience and unquestioning loyalty if the actions and more importantly the messaging does not get better.
Just my two cents of course.
Back to lurk mode.

Amber G.
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6519
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Amber G. » 08 Mar 2019 10:39

Thanks to India “Pakistan is on the positive trajectory" .. :rotfl: . read all about it!
Image

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18249
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 08 Mar 2019 10:40

BSR, agree. The new age is all about communications & this has historically been a GOI failing irrespective of who is in power.


Return to “Military Issues Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests