Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

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Picklu
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Picklu » 08 Mar 2019 22:41

My read is pakis are beinging too clever by half and intentionally kept the east west movement closed on their airspace to deny overflight for westbound traffic of the north indian airports and vice versa. This will increase the fuel cost of all airlines that are using those airports and flying to, or coming from, west.

They themselves fly very few east bound flights; hence not impacted.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 08 Mar 2019 22:48

I cannot say for sure what is going to happen at "high level", however the LoC will be super hot this summer.

Pak will give free hand to JeM & LeT cannon fodders to infiltrate through LoC. That is the only place where it can keep the water boiling, without spilling over.

As long as our soldiers are killed defending the LC against the hordes, the world will not bother.

We have pound PA position hard. I wish IAF is opened up on Pak positon on LC as deterrent for infiltration, however that is probably not going to happen.

It has to be 155MM open season. OFB , BF & Tata's better rollout those 155MM. Winter or Summer Tested or not, we need them in numbers.
Last edited by nam on 08 Mar 2019 22:51, edited 1 time in total.

nam
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 08 Mar 2019 22:50

Picklu wrote:My read is pakis are beinging too clever by half and intentionally kept the east west movement closed on their airspace to deny overflight for westbound traffic of the north indian airports and vice versa. This will increase the fuel cost of all airlines that are using those airports and flying to, or coming from, west.

They themselves fly very few east bound flights; hence not impacted.


Or IAF is still flying aggressive CAP, locking every PAF jet in the air..

One Pak drone got a nice present while flying in the 10KM no fly zone..so PAF will not be sure when a R77 is coming it's way.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 08 Mar 2019 22:53

once the west figured out that there was going to be no escalation, everybody and his dog lost interest. IA can do anything it wants now and if IAF need to strike a few jehadis, no one will bat an eyelid

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby prasannasimha » 08 Mar 2019 23:23

Actually heavy 2 artillery firing going on Two border outpost destroyed. We are shooting to destroy those units. Not just retaliate now reactively to their firing
LOC has flaired up again

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby khan » 08 Mar 2019 23:31

prasannasimha wrote:Actually heavy 2 artillery firing going on Two border outpost destroyed. We are shooting to destroy those units. Not just retaliate now reactively to their firing
LOC has flaired up again

Soon the situation on the TSP side will be such that serving on the LOC is a suicide mission.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 08 Mar 2019 23:33

They will send Pakistan and Emergency Assistance Package of $10B to Rehabilitate ex-terrorists, etc. Looking to UNSC is a waste of time and counter-productive as demonstrated since 1948.

Re: LOC. My concern is that being on Indian side is not much better. Not acceptable. The "LOC" needs to be shifted about 30 miles west, for starters, with a non-Paki zone from present LOC to new LOC.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 09 Mar 2019 00:48, edited 1 time in total.

Vivek K
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Vivek K » 08 Mar 2019 23:42

East? Or west?

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Vivasvat » 08 Mar 2019 23:43

naPak Twitter is going bonkers over rumours of airstrike in Fort Abbas. Browning their shalwars.
Sorry, old rumor from March 4

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby esommuk » 08 Mar 2019 23:56

nam wrote:
Picklu wrote:My read is pakis are beinging too clever by half and intentionally kept the east west movement closed on their airspace to deny overflight for westbound traffic of the north indian airports and vice versa. This will increase the fuel cost of all airlines that are using those airports and flying to, or coming from, west.

They themselves fly very few east bound flights; hence not impacted.


Or IAF is still flying aggressive CAP, locking every PAF jet in the air..

One Pak drone got a nice present while flying in the 10KM no fly zone..so PAF will not be sure when a R77 is coming it's way.


Pakistan's domestic ATS routes are slightly skewed towards their western border ... this is probably because PAF major airbases are along the eastern side. The north to south traffic flies over a western trajectory. Something similar in the UK. All RAF bases are in the east coast due to historic (WWII) reasons and that leaves very little civilian airspace on the western flank. Flying from London to Glasgow and return is always through a narrow constricted civilian airspace on the western flank!

Image

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby khan » 09 Mar 2019 00:19

UlanBatori wrote:They will send Pakistan and Emergency Assistance Package of $10B to Rehabilitate ex-terrorists, etc. Looking to UNSC is a waste of time and counter-productive as demonstrated since 1948.

Re: LOC. My concern is that being on Indian side is not much better. Not acceptable. The "LOC" needs to be shifted about 30 miles east, for starters, with a non-Paki zone from present LOC to new LOC.

Re: LOC, I found this article that was posted a few days ago to be highly informative.

"We are proactive here, not reactive," the Colonel says, sipping steaming tea from a glass covered in a camouflage cloth sheath. "I have denied the enemy the freedom of movement. We have achieved moral ascendancy over him."


I am sure LOC is no picnic, but keeping the LOC hot is IA’s preferred policy & PA keeps begging for de-escalation. There must be a reason for that.

Additionally as the nuclear threshold is gradually raised, there will be land grabs and the LOC will move more than 30 miles. The temperature must be raised gradually so the frog doesn’t realize it’s boiling.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby sudeepj » 09 Mar 2019 00:23

khan wrote:I saw an article somewhere (too lazy to look it up), that this time rounding up the usual suspects is not going to be acceptable to India.

India wants at a minimum all Indian citizen terrorists in TSP handed over (this included Dawood Ibrahim and apparently Hafeez Syed). This also correlates well with that ANI tweet about UNSC team being denied visas to interview Hafeez Syed.


This can be a start, but I dont see why the Pakistani citizens who have attacked India are let go and left to Pakistanis. At the least, there should be an ICJ or a UNSC sanctioned investigation and prosecution of these people. At best, these guys need to be handed over to India.

The Indian negotiation strategy should be to put a roster of negotiable non-negotiable demands and give an ultimatum. If Pakis do not agree to the non-negotiable demands, and Indians have to take kinetic action, the non-negotiable demands will expand the next time there is a meet.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby khan » 09 Mar 2019 00:32

sudeepj wrote:
khan wrote:I saw an article somewhere (too lazy to look it up), that this time rounding up the usual suspects is not going to be acceptable to India.

India wants at a minimum all Indian citizen terrorists in TSP handed over (this included Dawood Ibrahim and apparently Hafeez Syed). This also correlates well with that ANI tweet about UNSC team being denied visas to interview Hafeez Syed.


This can be a start, but I dont see why the Pakistani citizens who have attacked India are let go and left to Pakistanis. At the least, there should be an ICJ or a UNSC sanctioned investigation and prosecution of these people. At best, these guys need to be handed over to India.

The Indian negotiation strategy should be to put a roster of negotiable non-negotiable demands and give an ultimatum. If Pakis do not agree to the non-negotiable demands, and Indians have to take kinetic action, the non-negotiable demands will expand the next time there is a meet.


I think the negotiating strategy is to demand TSP takes “irreversible” steps to end terror and then keep saying “not good enough” to what they are doing, which IMO is better than throwing out non-negotiable demands because, India can keep asking for more and more and more and more.

When Pakistan balks at trying to pacify India’s latest demands, then there can be punishment.

Throwing out “non-negotiable” demands opens the door to criticizing India for being unreasonable and watering down India’s demands. With the current strategy the onus is on Pakistan and India gets to say “not good enough”.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 09 Mar 2019 00:49

Vivek K wrote:East? Or west?
:(( (sorry, thanks!)

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 09 Mar 2019 01:49

I support a pro-active management of the LoC, however at the same time, it should be questioned whether there are strategic benefits from the daily war of attrition unless that achieves aims. Pakistan covers up most deaths very well - even officers.

nam wrote:I cannot say for sure what is going to happen at "high level", however the LoC will be super hot this summer.

Pak will give free hand to JeM & LeT cannon fodders to infiltrate through LoC. That is the only place where it can keep the water boiling, without spilling over.

As long as our soldiers are killed defending the LC against the hordes, the world will not bother.

We have pound PA position hard. I wish IAF is opened up on Pak positon on LC as deterrent for infiltration, however that is probably not going to happen.

It has to be 155MM open season. OFB , BF & Tata's better rollout those 155MM. Winter or Summer Tested or not, we need them in numbers.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 09 Mar 2019 02:01

We need to find better ways to target PA position. Even if they hide it, it is still causalities. They have to replace them at LC.

Our job in not to convince the population of Pak. Our job is to find and hit PA position.

We need to use tech to target PA position which are dominating us.
Using SAR to find out hidden post.
Laser guided rounds,
ability to knock off artillery deployed in reverse slope.
Recon which are look deep for artillery position, HQ etc.

The point is thousands of PA personals and resources are deployed on LoC. There is no need to invade Pak, just make them bring the resources to LC. A full war might result in 5k or 10k Pak causalities.

You can achieve that on LC by using dominating tech.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 09 Mar 2019 02:09

X-Post from the Indian Army: News & Discussion thread....

=========================================================

https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/11 ... 3426766848 ---> BREAKING: Young Army (JAK LI) soldier on leave Rifleman Mohammad Yaseen Bhat has been abducted from his home in Qazipora, Budgam by suspected terrorists. He was on leave till the end of this month. Search on. Pray this doesn’t end like Lt Ummer Fayyaz.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 09 Mar 2019 02:09

Paks have extended the NOTAM. I have a feeling they are up to something.

If there is another terror attack (with no claims), GoI will be forced to react, potentially against a alert PAF and mobilized PA..

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby khan » 09 Mar 2019 02:24

nam wrote:Paks have extended the NOTAM. I have a feeling they are up to something.

If there is another terror attack (with no claims), GoI will be forced to react, potentially against a alert PAF and mobilized PA..

They are scared India is upto something. Alert & mobilized PAF & PA just means more of them to kill when the time comes.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Amber G. » 09 Mar 2019 02:51

Namo (Shivayam!) Namo Sivayam ... NaMo Miracle .. Kicks are having effect...
Who would have thought that PTI will tweet in Hindi: :shock: :shock: :shock:

तौबा तौबा! ये लातों के देव अब बातें करने लगे -- वो भी हिंदी में !

मैं नोबेल शांति पुरस्कार के योग्य नहीं हूं। इस योग्य व्यक्ति वह होगा जो कश्मीरी लोगों की इच्छा के अनुसार कश्मीर विवाद का समाधान करता है और उपमहाद्वीप में शांति और मानव विकास का मार्ग प्रशस्त करता है। @ImranKhanPTI

#Pakistan #india


Link: https://twitter.com/PTIofficial/status/1102472255605477376

For non-hindi speakers/lurkers there is always a google translate which does extremely good work for Hindi-English translation..
>>> (Translation by google..)>>>

Tauba Tauba! These ghats of gods (gods who only respond to kicks) started talking now - that too in Hindi!



I am not worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize. This worthy person will be the one who resolves Kashmir dispute according to Kashmiri people's wishes and paves the way for peace and human development in the subcontinent. @ImranKhanPTI

(BTW Translation is excellent)

---^^^ Another trending tweet -
यही है अच्छे दिन, पाकिस्तान जो हिंदी से घृणा रखता है आज हिंदी में ट्वीट पेलने पर मजबूर हुआ आप किसी ने ये कभी सपने में भी नही सोचा होगा के ये भी देख पाएंगे। मित्रो, ये मोदीजी का डर है और ये रहना भी चाहिए। मोदी है तो मुमकिन है

Translation:
These are the "good days"- achhe din -, Pakistan, who hates Hindi, has been forced to tweet in Hindi today. You will not even have seen this in a dream.! Friends, this is a fear of Modiji and it should forever be live in them . It's possible if Modi is
Last edited by Amber G. on 09 Mar 2019 03:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 09 Mar 2019 02:58

Spot the raw agent?!?!!!

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Amber G. » 09 Mar 2019 03:17

Sorry if already posted, I did not know this.. (Can some expert confirm, if this is true, if so this should be widely shared)
JeM terrorist Shahid Latif, chief handler of fidayeen attack on Pathankot was released in 2010 as a goodwill gesture to GHQ Rawalppindi

Image

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 09 Mar 2019 03:30

Here is a large image of the place which Reuters managed to reach, not allowed further.

I can see burnt areas. The big building has fresh paint? Trees look burnt as well?

http://s3.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20190307&t=2&i=1363818014&r=LYNXNPEF261JK

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby sudeepj » 09 Mar 2019 03:59

https://twitter.com/W7VOA/status/1104139987023474689

"US issues Level 2 travel alert for #India -- "exercise increased caution," warning Americans to not visit most of Jammu and Kashmir due to "terrorism and civil unrest" and not go within 10 km of the border with #Pakistan "due to the potential for armed conflict.""


Operations are continuing. First hint of pressure on India.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 09 Mar 2019 04:14

10 KM from the border is the no fly zone..

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby sudhan » 09 Mar 2019 04:30

Also within arty range

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 09 Mar 2019 05:36

Amber G. wrote:For all indications looks like this time will be different ...Pak is being read the riot act..

From various news reports ): A week after Jaish-e-Mohammad training camp at Balakot in Pakistan getting smashed , the U.K. has offered India “all assistance” in counter-terrorism and intelligence sharing.

British National Security Adviser Mark Sedwill speaks to Ajit Doval for second time in one week
(Sedwill has, according to public reports, talked to Imaran too just the other day.)

There are flurry of calls .. quite publicly reported.. by many other leaders and senior officials in the past week ... from the U.S., Russia, China, Saudi Arabia and the UAE .. we know ..s U.S. President Donald Trump said publicly last week that his government was working too.

Interesting part is tone and India's message is quite clear and consistent ..

>>"there has been solid understanding with India and there has been no talk of mediation ... This is not an issue of India-Pakistan, this is an issue of terrorism. We have encouraged all the leaders to tell Pakistan to take action against terror groups<<<

Wow ... I really have tremendous respect for this govt..!



Tathastu... We never will know what has been achieved.
Especially underlined parts.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Ravi Karumanchiri » 09 Mar 2019 06:17

My chai whallah's wholesaler has a new cashier, who is very chatty.

Conversation goes in every direction, which is nice.

Casually (but I think purposefully), she reminded me of something I forgot, long, long ago.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 09 Mar 2019 06:52

Thats 10 year old article. Maybe Israel implemented in their Bunker Buster

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby SaiK » 09 Mar 2019 07:09

nam wrote:10 KM from the border is the no fly zone..

losing the brf-grip here.. the whole of pakistan should be no-fly-zone!

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby sudeepj » 09 Mar 2019 07:16

https://www.opindia.com/2019/03/jaish-e ... epartment/

The US has exhorted Pakistan to take ‘sustained and irreversible’ action against terrorists such as Masood Azhar and stop providing a haven for banned terror groups threatening to destabilise the region.

Amidst the mounting global pressure on Pakistan to take definitive action against the terror outfits operating from its land, the US State Department’s statement against Pakistan’s penchant to support terror groups puts an additional strain on it to act against the outlawed groups.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Ravi Karumanchiri » 09 Mar 2019 07:27

ramana wrote:Thats 10 year old article. Maybe Israel implemented in their Bunker Buster



Oh, definitely.


Further reading... https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/sto ... s-of-fire/

The actual patent... https://patents.justia.com/patent/8495959

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Sanju » 09 Mar 2019 07:34

Amber G. wrote:Namo (Shivayam!) Namo Sivayam ... NaMo Miracle .. Kicks are having effect...
Who would have thought that PTI will tweet in Hindi: :shock: :shock: :shock:

तौबा तौबा! ये लातों के देव अब बातें करने लगे -- वो भी हिंदी में !

<snip>


Amber G. ji, my first reaction was so what PTI (Press Trust of India) should be tweeting in Hindi and other Indian languages. Then I realised that you were referring to the Paki-Tehreek-i-na-Insaafi party.

This reminds me of the Treaty of Hudaybiyya. Pakis want peace till they are back on even keel, fiscally & financially. Then it is back to ghazwa-e-be-hind.

He has publicly stated preferring Tipu Sultan over Bahadur Shah Zafar. Shows the inner workings of his mind.

We have to be very careful with this slimy charlatan.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby manjgu » 09 Mar 2019 07:44

picklu...fair enough that PA does not fly too many East bound flts..but why are their domestic flts hugging the western border?

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby khan » 09 Mar 2019 07:48

Apparently there was an accident in the Sui gas fields :mrgreen:

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby vimal » 09 Mar 2019 07:52


UlanBatori
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 09 Mar 2019 08:06

nam wrote:Here is a large image of the place which Reuters managed to reach, not allowed further.

I can see burnt areas. The big building has fresh paint? Trees look burnt as well?

http://s3.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20190307&t=2&i=1363818014&r=LYNXNPEF261JK

My mistake. Roof is shiny corrugated aluminum. May be ~ 3 days old. Pine trees are standing nearby, so no building-flattening blasts. IOW no energy wasted on "fugacity". This was a set of thermal, concrete-piercing weapons.

I once saw a presentation on a weapon suited for these sorts of missions. It would come through the concrete roof of an underground facility, with a two-stage nose etc. Once inside the space below, it would just fly about with rocket thrust, bouncing off walls until the propellant was gone. No particular explosion. Just a temporary 800 - 1200 deg. C nice warm feeling inside the building for a few minutes. Like downtown Dresden near end of WW2.

The armed guards are to allow the cleaners the time to scrape the charred corpses off the floor and walls. Some building walls may have collapsed. The ones shown were evidently perimeter buildings, not main resort block which would be in the middle. I don't think they put the star terrorists in perimeters buildings: if Reuters could creep up there and take photos, RAA could also creep up there and aim other things through the ventilators.

In any case, the denial of entry for over a week now is an absolute clincher for the IAF's initial claim. Actually it was MoD Babu who commented that "when the photos come all u will c is ruble" May not have been clear on precise nature of weapon used.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 09 Mar 2019 08:10

manjgu wrote:picklu...fair enough that PA does not fly too many East bound flts..but why are their domestic flts hugging the western border?


no civilian flights allowed over the lower indus valley or in between pindi-lahore means flights from lahore/multan to karachi are taking a long route over 3 sides of a rectangle. even short flights pindi to lahore seem to take the western corridor and then back east to lahore as the regular route passes over a sensitive area. pindi to lahore is now 2X longer. just click a suitable flight and see its trail

so they are burning a lot of extra fuel. for the gulf flights not much difference as they would fly out west of krachi over the makran desert anyway toward oman/dubai/saudi.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Amber G. » 09 Mar 2019 08:14

Sanju wrote:
Amber G. wrote:Namo (Shivayam!) Namo Sivayam ... NaMo Miracle .. Kicks are having effect...
Who would have thought that PTI will tweet in Hindi: :shock: :shock: :shock:

तौबा तौबा! ये लातों के देव अब बातें करने लगे -- वो भी हिंदी में !

<snip>


Amber G. ji, my first reaction was so what PTI (Press Trust of India) should be tweeting in Hindi and other Indian languages. Then I realised that you were referring to the Paki-Tehreek-i-na-Insaafi party.

This reminds me of the Treaty of Hudaybiyya. Pakis want peace till they are back on even keel, fiscally & financially. Then it is back to ghazwa-e-be-hind.

He has publicly stated preferring Tipu Sultan over Bahadur Shah Zafar. Shows the inner workings of his mind.

We have to be very careful with this slimy charlatan.

IMO, it is a BIG deal for their H&D... They hate Hindi (devnagri script)-- or anything to do with Indian root -- so Imran to tweet in Hindi was his first..

Funny thing is twitting IAF's poem is trending (which was sort of reply to his hindi tweet..).. It was posted here in brf before but posting it again in text form so people not familiar with Hindi can use google to translate. (This poem is mentioned in many Indian main-stream newspapers as

I really like " मृगमरीचिका" for Mirage! and specially this:
अब नींद कैसे आएगी उनको, थोड़ा सा झकझोर आये हैं उनको।
रात जैसे जैसे रवानी पर पहुंचेगी, आतिशबाजी का रहेगा अंदेशा उनको।

आज किसी ने सरहदें पार की, क्योंकि किसी ने सारी हदें पार की।

अब झूठ कैसे और किससे बोलेंगे वो, सच की एक ख़ुराक खिला आये हैं उनको।
मियाँ, तुम तुम हो, हम हम हैं, आज सुबह बता आये हैं उनको।


Anyway here is poem in full for BRF's record.
>>>
हद सरहद की

आज किसी ने सरहदें पार की, क्योंकि किसी ने सारी हदें पार की।
उस लड़ाकू में, जिसका अर्थ मृगमरीचिका है, एक हक़ीक़त, गयी रात हमने बयाँ की।

आज किसी ने सरहदें पार की, क्योंकि किसी ने सारी हदें पार की।

आज उसके पाले में जा के, कहा हमने 'हू तू तू तू तू तू'।
और एक ख़ास तरीके से उसे छूकर, कहा 'अब बस! संभल जा तू'।

आज किसी ने सरहदें पार की, क्योंकि किसी ने सारी हदें पार की।

अब नींद कैसे आएगी उनको, थोड़ा सा झकझोर आये हैं उनको।
रात जैसे जैसे रवानी पर पहुंचेगी, आतिशबाजी का रहेगा अंदेशा उनको।

आज किसी ने सरहदें पार की, क्योंकि किसी ने सारी हदें पार की।

अब झूठ कैसे और किससे बोलेंगे वो, सच की एक ख़ुराक खिला आये हैं उनको।
मियाँ, तुम तुम हो, हम हम हैं, आज सुबह बता आये हैं उनको।

आज किसी ने सरहदें पार की, क्योंकि किसी ने सारी हदें पार की।

बयाँ की है अपनी मंशा अपनी ज़रा हट के, हो जाये मुकाबला इस बार चाहे डट के।
आज किसी ने अपनी सरहदें पार कीं, क्योंकि किसी ने सारी हदें पार कीं।

विपिन 'इलाहाबादी'
२७ फरवरी २०१९


This was tweeted from (@IAF_MCC)
Indian Air Force - Media Co-ordination Centre
Last edited by Amber G. on 09 Mar 2019 08:38, edited 1 time in total.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66608
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 09 Mar 2019 08:15

pakistani elite have parked their wealth in certain places like dubai and london.

usa is a good place to park their kids but not their wealth as the GOTUS sometimes goes on witchunts of slush money driven by domestic politics and crusader mentality.

so the custodians of these wealth in dubai and london "having a quiet word with the natives" that please show cooperation or slush fund access would run in technical issues is likely to move the paki elite to grudgingly do a few things on the terror front.

venezuela found to its cost that soverign gold deposit is not really sovereign when in custody of the western banks.


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