Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 22441
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby chetak » 30 Jun 2020 00:44

darshan wrote:Can the police have been set up based on the past behavior?


there is a background to this drama.

the accused police officer is known to be very tough against EJs and south TN is a dangerous place to go against the EJs.

the two "businessmen" were primarily pastors/preachers

and finally, make no mistake – black lives matter (and its India specific derivatives) is a newly launched and rabidly radical neo-marxist political movement that these guys are trying to take global.

desperate to appear woke and support what they hope will soon become a vociferous clamor, local celebrities are queuing up to endorse this movement that the BIF are keen to begin in India.

recall the failed attempts to import the arab spring to India and what they tried to do with it here.

This is a trial balloon sent up to gage the response and to try to instigate and ignite a minnesota like conflagration using local voices and inflammable regional memes

SRoy
BRFite
Posts: 1886
Joined: 15 Jul 2005 06:45
Location: Kolkata
Contact:

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby SRoy » 30 Jun 2020 01:02

darshan wrote:Can the police have been set up based on the past behavior?


Please.

It's this kind of police behavior that had set off the whole Naxal movement in the first place in the 60s.
Then the ba$t@rd$ followed up with encountering even innocent people at their whims and fancies.

This is how they behave. No matter which state they belong to.

A colonial style uniformed force structured to oppress population without any oversight and repercussions is the perfect handle for the BIFs to exploit.

We even have a thread on Police Reform here on BRF. The thread is there with a reason.

They are the part of the problem, when it comes to national security.

SRoy
BRFite
Posts: 1886
Joined: 15 Jul 2005 06:45
Location: Kolkata
Contact:

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby SRoy » 30 Jun 2020 01:03

WTF is woke?

darshan
BRFite
Posts: 1860
Joined: 28 Jan 2008 04:16

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby darshan » 30 Jun 2020 01:05

Sorry I don't believe and also know that it's not black and white like that. At least as far as speaking of GJ. I know of many examples within GJ of police being set up and that eventually resulted in keep off zones and mini pakistans as police started taking pause about what's acceptable and headaches that came with arrests.


Chinese virus also has presented many examples of good police work.

SRoy
BRFite
Posts: 1886
Joined: 15 Jul 2005 06:45
Location: Kolkata
Contact:

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby SRoy » 30 Jun 2020 01:18

darshan wrote:Sorry I don't believe and also know that it's not black and white like that. At least as far as speaking of GJ.

You mean you don't believe the recorded history of the Naxal violence outbreak and police's role in it?
I believe you man.
After all, Gujarat and Bengal are almost a continent apart, sewed together in an artificial federal structure (as per BIF understanding of the republic).
See, even BIF forces would agree with you.

darshan wrote:I know of many examples within GJ of police being set up and that eventually resulted in keep off zones and mini pakistans as police started taking pause about what's acceptable and headaches that came with arrests.

You mean the khaki guys that were extorting the poor vegetable sellers during the lock down? My PG facility in Navarangpura (yeah I'm in Ahmadabad) ran out of veggie stock because the uniformed extortion gangs made sure that none of poor veggie seller was ready to venture out. Dismiss this as an one off anecdote if you like. BTW, these uniformed extortion gang looks the other way when your beloved GJ drowns itself in bootlegged liquor.

So, sir nothing praiseworthy.

darshan wrote:Chinese virus also has presented many examples of good police work.

Sign of times when you have to applaud people when they are finally forced to do what they are paid to do with taxpayers money.

Reform the police.

For long term survival of SD this ranks high up there with Mandir Control, repeal RTE, reform of bureaucracy.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7948
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Sachin » 30 Jun 2020 15:27

SRoy wrote:You mean you don't believe the recorded history of the Naxal violence outbreak and police's role in it?

I don't have much knowledge on West Bengal history. But Naxalism was also a problem in Kerala in late 1960s to 1970s. They spoke of about 'lofty ideals', but ultimately was just another group who belived in their own version of victims, oppresors and justice. KL had seen at least two murders in which the dead men were killed because they fit the naxal definition of 'evil land lord'. Whereas these folks just happen to be from a once land owner community, who has long lost any political relevance. It is only because of very strong police action which reduced the spread of this dangerous ideology and even more dangerous and trigger happy believers. There was also strong political backing. Thanks to the police action atheist naxals became pastors and Sai Baba devotees :lol:. Yes, there has been 1-2 cases of police high-handedness (and some police men had a tough time at courts); but today no sensible person in KL would want to be a naxalite :).

Reform the police.

I have been repeating this again and again. Reformation of police will happen when the society is reformed. Example; a more disciplined & well behaved society like Japan gets a more 'pleasent' police force. A society like ours; where corruption and high handedness (through various factors) are high cannot have a police force which behaves like the stereo-type "Brtish bobby". By the way it would nice if you stop using certain words to abuse an entire group of people just because they are part of one profession. This would be like labelling every Bengali Bhadralok a Chinese stooge or male members assisting in the world's oldest profession etc ;).

chetak wrote:the accused police officer is known to be very tough against EJs and south TN is a dangerous place to go against the EJs.

As per another report I read two SSIs in the accused list was also accused of bashing up two pastors some time back. So this is now being arrayed as not just custodial death but one with a religious motive. The EJs would for sure use this to browbeat any one who is now opposing their 'soul harvesting' schemes. But that being said, what we hear is only media reports. There has to be an investigation and proof that the said individuals died when in police custody and due to the accused police men harming them. But from a pure EJ perspective the investigation, trial and prosecution may not matter; they have got their 'martyrs'.

nandakumar
BRFite
Posts: 1147
Joined: 10 May 2010 13:37

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby nandakumar » 30 Jun 2020 15:49

chetak wrote:
SRoy wrote:End of the day two ordinary people died in police custody.

They were Christians. OK. EJ network will exploit the situation. Got it.

But how does the above makes the police behavior acceptable to you? How do people die in police custody?


judicial custody

There seems to be a misconception about judicial custody. Under the custody of the court doesn't mean that there is a separate lockup room within the Court building. They are simply taken to a jail just the same as convicted prisoners. The only difference is that the jail warden is holding a person on behalf of a judicial officer as opposed to holding a convict on behalf of the people (law). The warden, in the case of judicial custody, is subject to such other orders of the court may specify. But otherwise they are treated on par with convicted inmates as far as facilities go. In contrast in the case of police custody the person is kept in a room within the police station. In both cases the people are entitled to be protected against physical abuse. That these are observed more in breach than in convention goes without saying.

suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3618
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby suryag » 30 Jun 2020 19:32

SRoy sir I have deleted your useless post and have also banned you for a week for writing non sense.

Here the general point is there is more to the story than what is being reported.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7948
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Sachin » 30 Jun 2020 20:05

nandakumar wrote:They are simply taken to a jail just the same as convicted prisoners....
But otherwise they are treated on par with convicted inmates as far as facilities go..

There are subtle differences here as well.
#1 When a court sends some on to judicial remand/custody, they are essentially taken to sub-jails (generally smaller prisons) which may be part off a bigger jail or located at a different place.
#2 The people in judicial remand generally do not have to wear prison uniforms and also not asked to do any labour (which convicts may have to do).
#3 People in judicial custody/remand are NOT housed in barracks/cells holding convicts. Both are kept separate.

In the specific case which happened in TN, has it been proven that the two people had been taken into custody by the police? From what I know the police said they had picked up the men as they violated the lock down conditions and also caused a ruckus. Looks like the "ruckus creation" part does not hold good as there is CCTV cameras which have video the father getting inside the police vehicle and the son following it on a two wheeler.

I cannot 100% rely on the media when it comes to neutral/factual reporting on the case due to the vested interests (EJs etc. at play). So has it been confirmed that the two had been kept in illegal custody? And that they were beaten up there? Were they taken to any medical facility right after the incident?

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 22441
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby chetak » 30 Jun 2020 21:42

there seems to be heavy involvement of EJs and it looks like a black lives matter type of attempt to hype up the case is being made by people who missed out at shaheen bagh.

local going vocal seems to be the name of the age old game.


Dhanya Rajendran@dhanyarajendran
TNM investigation: Sathankulam cops have a history of violence.
@priyankathiru traces a case in 2013 where this Sub Inspector Balakrishnan apologised and paid settlement. That lawyer is regretting that he let him get away. #JusticeForJayarajandBennicks




TNM investigation: Sathankulam cops have a history of custodial violence

nandakumar
BRFite
Posts: 1147
Joined: 10 May 2010 13:37

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby nandakumar » 30 Jun 2020 21:51

Sachin wrote:
nandakumar wrote:They are simply taken to a jail just the same as convicted prisoners....
But otherwise they are treated on par with convicted inmates as far as facilities go..

There are subtle differences here as well.
#1 When a court sends some on to judicial remand/custody, they are essentially taken to sub-jails (generally smaller prisons) which may be part off a bigger jail or located at a different place.
#2 The people in judicial remand generally do not have to wear prison uniforms and also not asked to do any labour (which convicts may have to do).
#3 People in judicial custody/remand are NOT housed in barracks/cells holding convicts. Both are kept separate.

In the specific case which happened in TN, has it been proven that the two people had been taken into custody by the police? From what I know the police said they had picked up the men as they violated the lock down conditions and also caused a ruckus. Looks like the "ruckus creation" part does not hold good as there is CCTV cameras which have video the father getting inside the police vehicle and the son following it on a two wheeler.

I cannot 100% rely on the media when it comes to neutral/factual reporting on the case due to the vested interests (EJs etc. at play). So has it been confirmed that the two had been kept in illegal custody? And that they were beaten up there? Were they taken to any medical facility right after the incident?

Thanks for those insights. I stand corrected with regard to the distinction (remand prisoner and convict). But in the instant case I am really perplexed. I dare say, the police are known to use strong arm tactics. But for a lockdown violation? That seems a bit of a stretch.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7948
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Sachin » 01 Jul 2020 21:09

nandakumar wrote:I dare say, the police are known to use strong arm tactics. But for a lockdown violation? That seems a bit of a stretch.

From what I have noticed; it is actually very rare for police officials to literally beat some one to death these days. Many of the police men actually are keen on keeping their jobs safe. A recent case of actual torture & custodial death happened in Kerala. Here a man was actually kept in illegal custody for nearly 2-3 days. This man was suspected to have embezzled funds to a shady (illegal?) chit fund company. These illegal financiers also had 'encouraged' the police to go for strong arm tactics. And the police men who actually tortured him also did it after getting support from their immediate supervisors. Again their intention was not to kill the man, but ultimately that was what happened :(.

Don't know more on the death of two people in Tamil Nadu. Was it a similar case like what happened in Kerala? There are also cases where individuals have died and the relatives and friends alleging that the death was due to police torture which kind of happened months back. But looks like today EJs have gained an upper hand, at least in this case.

chetak wrote:there seems to be heavy involvement of EJs and it looks like a black lives matter type of attempt to hype up the case

The link you gave even though in favour of EJs actually gives some more insight to the case. Note the line - "“Raja Singh is crucial to our case because he was in the same jail as Jayaraj and Bennix,”". So did the two individuals die in a sub-jail? Sub-Jails are not manned by police officers from the local police. Secondly an individual is sent to a sub jail based on the orders of a magistrate. To send a person to sub-jail (judicial custody) the police men has to produce him in front of a magistrate who will check the 'remand report' and then give an order to send the person to judicial custody. At this juncture the arrested man also gets a chance to say that he was tortured in custody. Or in very severe cases the magistrate would be able to see the health of the people.

Also note the clubbing of another case of murder. The two individuals who are being supported by EJs are involved in the murder of another person Jayakumar. And also note how the death of Mahendran which happened much later being clubbed with police torture which happened a month back.

Timeline of custodial deaths of Jayaraj and Bennix Felix in Tamil Nadu
The above report has the time line of events.
1. The two men are taken to the PS at 0819PM on 19June. Looks like they were detained in the police lockup.
2. On 20 June the police then taken both of them for a medical fitness test (at what time?) and also produces them in front of the judicial magistrate. Here the police has followed the process in the correct way. The report is silent on what the magistrate ordered. Were they let off on bail? Sent back into police custody? Or were they remanded to judicial custody?
3. On 22 June (i.e three days after spending the night in the PS) the individuals admitted to the hospital die. Where were they during these three days? The hospital is said to be 100km away from the homes of the dead men.

There would be lots of paper audit trails about the whole case. Right from the FIR, station general dairy, medical fitness report and the magistrate's orders. But the EJs have built their own narrative.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: sajo, sooraj and 31 guests