One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

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Do we need one nation one poll

Yes
39
81%
No
5
10%
Not Sure
4
8%
 
Total votes: 48

ArjunPandit
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One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby ArjunPandit » 20 Jun 2019 15:09

Surprised that it is not being discussed at BRF so setting the ball rolling here. I am sure people will have wide and diverse viewpoints here. Jot down my thoughts over the weekend after a bit of research. Given that GDF discussions are no longer permitted would request to keep discussions apolitical and only merit-demerit based

ArjunPandit
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby ArjunPandit » 20 Jun 2019 15:42

this is the niti ayog paper, that we should all dissect
https://niti.gov.in/writereaddata/files ... ctions.pdf

khatvaanga
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby khatvaanga » 20 Jun 2019 23:01

The recommendations are pretty solid and have taken into consideration the vagaries of our multi-party system. The two phase elections along with riders for what happens if a govt falls within out-of-cadence with the Two Phased approach is pretty good and I think this is something that will be beneficial to the nation.

UlanBatori
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby UlanBatori » 20 Jun 2019 23:30

Going to full on-line is the way to do One Election. Give people a spread of 1 week to go vote via Internet/ Internet booths/ Mobile Internet booths. Chance of fraud is same as that in Income Tax or bank accounts, once one uses Aadhar or Indian Passport (for NRIs) for ID. So deal with the fraud. Do the "recount" thing concurrently, validating each and every vote. This is potentially far safer and far more relaxed, and immensely less expensive. Spend the resources on full participation, fraud prevention and validation. Plus ironclad protection against future manipulation: that will no doubt require massive effort. HAVE to decentralize the process, while maintaining central authority to pre-empt local Mamata types. Somehow the equivalent of the US 2nd-Amendment's original intent (that the People have guns so don't mess with them) has to be implemented without going the gun route.

KJo
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby KJo » 21 Jun 2019 00:01

I am looking for folks to share arguments why this is a bad idea.

khatvaanga
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby khatvaanga » 21 Jun 2019 00:22

UlanBatori wrote:Going to full on-line is the way to do One Election.

saar with dumb microcontroller, without ports only 21 parties are going ape-sh*t crazy. in a fully integrated online system maybe extremely vulnerable for hacking no?

Though I think for our electionprocess to be online is a few decades away. Need a unhackable OS, then integration with aadhar, then KYC individually for the voting site etc.

UlanBatori
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Jun 2019 00:32

Why "few decades" etc? There is no system that is ever going to be hootchie-kootchie proof. Like I said, danger of fraud is same as with bank accounts, passport, driver's license, ration card, visa, income tax. If those systems "work", what is so special about voting? You save half a day by not having to go to the polling booth. Why not spend 20 minutes if needed, doing the ID verification for on-line voting? In fact only 5 minutes may be needed, same as going to a booth, showing your ID documents and using the EVM. Instead of hajaar polis with 0.303 rifle, spend money on hackers to keep track of the system and catch other hackers.
Face it, someone WILL try and keep trying, and the danger that everyone fears is the single virus that changes the election result at one point. So deal with it, have some Blockchain-type verification, I don't know. Put a few AI/Blockchain hackers to work, to come up with a system that is not Unbreakable but totally transparent while maintaining anonymity of voter.

Rudradev
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby Rudradev » 21 Jun 2019 00:38

KJo wrote:I am looking for folks to share arguments why this is a bad idea.


I am actually in favour of ONOE, but here are a few counter-arguments that others have shared or that come to mind.

1) National elections are for national issues. Local elections are for local issues. If a state govt of (e.g.) BJP is failing to live up to its promises, but the election is held at the same time as LS elections, the public sentiment *at that time* against the local govt could (unfairly) impact the results from that state against the central govt/MP candidates. And vice versa... a good state leader from (e.g.) Congress, like Amarinder Singh, could be adversely impacted by the shenanigans of Pappu on the national level.

2) Related to (1), local/state elections act as a "feedback mechanism" and occasionally a "wakeup call" for the govt at the center. This was the case in 2019 LS Elections when BJP had to get its act together and address local issues in RJ, MP, CG after getting defeated in state elections there, rather than just assuming "Modi hai to mumkin hai" and resting on its laurels.

3) State govts can fall. What happens then? We used to have ONOE until 1967 and then, because of collapsing state legislatures/state govt dismissals/governor's rule, the state elections went "Out of Phase" from LS elections to one extent or another in many states. So even if we convince all states to go back to ONOE in 2024, what is a fair and practicable remedy against this happening again?

ArjunPandit
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby ArjunPandit » 21 Jun 2019 00:54

I'm perhaps the Only one who voted against.. I'm fine with modiji at helm.m but I'm scared with upa 2 with this system

ArjunPandit
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby ArjunPandit » 21 Jun 2019 00:58

UlanBatori wrote:Why "few decades" etc? There is no system that is ever going to be hootchie-kootchie proof. Like I said, danger of fraud is same as with bank accounts, passport, driver's license, ration card, visa, income tax. If those systems "work", what is so special about voting? You save half a day by not having to go to the polling booth. Why not spend 20 minutes if needed, doing the ID verification for on-line voting? In fact only 5 minutes may be needed, same as going to a booth, showing your ID documents and using the EVM. Instead of hajaar polis with 0.303 rifle, spend money on hackers to keep track of the system and catch other hackers.
Face it, someone WILL try and keep trying, and the danger that everyone fears is the single virus that changes the election result at one point. So deal with it, have some Blockchain-type verification, I don't know. Put a few AI/Blockchain hackers to work, to come up with a system that is not Unbreakable but totally transparent while maintaining anonymity of voter.

the biggest challenge is not external but internal.. Right now it's difficult to identify who voted for whom... But this would make it quite easy.. Even bitcoin transactions got tracked the way feds wanted in silk route case

UlanBatori
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Jun 2019 01:38

I don't see why this is more sacred or difficult than the "False Number" scheme used in SSLC exam. Mantri's brat may get special number to match the paper written for him, but for the million others it works.
Exactly how secret IS it, anyway? Today one COULD borrow a webcam from the nearest wimmen's toilet and mount it inside the booth, hain? Or, simpler still, catch someone and beat the cra* out of them until they confess who they voted for and THEN kill them.
ATM codes are hacked, but we don't quit using ATMs. NaMo2000 re notes are widely believed to be Made In Pakistan anyway, but we don't stop using them.

Most institutions now claim to have HotLine Tip Web-Based Reporting System, administered by outside agints. Totally 400% confidential, NO ONE knows who put in complaint etc. :rotfl: Except the Usual Suspects get dragged in and hammered with a lot of bogus "complains" a month later. Of course it would not be good to say, Ah! Indian Election is Administered by Huawai-CIA Faisalabad Inc. But...

ArjunPandit
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby ArjunPandit » 21 Jun 2019 04:03

Oh you've missed the TMC vicks and moove tech

UlanBatori
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Jun 2019 08:28

TMC, Kerala Marxists, TN goons and Kashmir terrorists all prove why this anonymous ballot is not all it's made out to be. These bozos harass/kill people based on prejudice, pre-emptively. Fence-sitting is a fatal error. The only possible counter is to come out and yell one's politics on national TV.

ramana
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby ramana » 21 Jun 2019 09:31

Ok. Don't get side tracked. Let's stick to the topic.

ramana
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby ramana » 21 Jun 2019 09:33

I voted yes.
Any one know how much recent elections cost the country?
How much was lost in ghus?
How this impacts welfare and benefits?
Stability of govt?

vera_k
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby vera_k » 21 Jun 2019 09:49

India's election spending surges

Indian elections cost $8.6 billion. US elections cost $6.5 billion.

Yagnasri
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby Yagnasri » 21 Jun 2019 11:25

I voted Yes. Reasons are obvious. But what will be the challenges and objections to the system.

1. State and Central issues are different and voting for both together will be confusing for the common voters and their will may not be expressed due to this confusion.
Ans: Let us not underestimate the voters. They have shown time and again they are far more capable of making the judgement than we give credit to them. This is not an big issue. EVMs can be colored differently and the votes can be informed accordingly.
2. What happens if a state assemble or LS had to be dissolved before the term. How can we reconcile them with the next national level elections?
Ans: Constructive no confidence shall be a rule. In case there are unavailable circumstances wherein dissolution is the only option then tenure of the house shall be reduced to the remaining period to the national elections only.
3. Rajya Sabha: what to do with this house elections.
Ans: Once the national elections are over then the entire Rajya Sabha shall be elected afresh and the same shall continue till the next national elections and the fresh elections for Rajya Sabha.

Rest of the issues like logistics etc can be solved without any problem.

Vikas
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby Vikas » 21 Jun 2019 12:33

ArjunPandit wrote:I'm perhaps the Only one who voted against.. I'm fine with modiji at helm.m but I'm scared with upa 2 with this system


I voted No.
1. There are more chances of same party coming to power in state and center or getting booted out because of single elections.
2. It sort of disincentivizes the elected reps to move/support other parties if they know that it will not result in new elections.
3. No major benefit with one election.
4. A strong and powerful PM will always pull the state govts along and win elections for them. It messes up the thought process of the voters.

abhik
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby abhik » 21 Jun 2019 21:05

I voted no too. With the amount of political capital that has to be expended to push this through, it better be the next best thing since sliced bread - and it just isn't, it's a high cost low benefit proposition.

Make a backlog of all the reforms/chamges you want to make (in agile estyle). Say you given Rs 100 of political capital, and freedom to choose to prioritize backlog items to spend on. Will this item really be something you choose to do?

Lilo
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby Lilo » 22 Jun 2019 00:27

If the so called dumb indian voters cannot distinguish between state vs central elections how come orissa voted for BJD in state and yet gave good chunk of seats to BJP in parliamentary elections - both being held simultaneously hain ji?

So i dont buy this assumption that citizens are unable to differentiate b/w state vs central elections .

disha
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby disha » 22 Jun 2019 01:01

vera_k wrote:India's election spending surges

Indian elections cost $8.6 billion. US elections cost $6.5 billion.


India has a larger, diverse and more active electorate than US. Voting percentage in US is absymal.

Hence above numbers are watermelon to grape comparison.

ramana
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby ramana » 22 Jun 2019 01:18

Lilo and Disha, Can we find out why Indira Gandhi dissolved the Lok Sabha early in 1970s and ushered in diverse polls? This split the General Elections from State assemblies and brought in the election turmoil of the 1980 thru even now.

UlanBatori
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby UlanBatori » 22 Jun 2019 08:10

I voted no. The cost can be slashed by using on-line. Beyond that, a single day tamasha would be hugely destabilizing. It is good to have States that vote independently, and voters who distinguish between national polls (strategic leadership) and local polls (local issues). It may be good to ban national parties from contesting state elections, instead requiring all state candidates to choose a local affiliation. Then they can kiss whoever's backside they please at the central level.

ArjunPandit
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby ArjunPandit » 25 Jun 2019 05:17

UlanBatori wrote:I voted no. The cost can be slashed by using on-line. Beyond that, a single day tamasha would be hugely destabilizing. It is good to have States that vote independently, and voters who distinguish between national polls (strategic leadership) and local polls (local issues). It may be good to ban national parties from contesting state elections, instead requiring all state candidates to choose a local affiliation. Then they can kiss whoever's backside they please at the central level.


in fact UBji, with things going online it might build a case for more frequent polls and referendum. Why wait for elections to come when you want to get rid of pappus after 2g kind of scam. This might bring us to a much harder question, how will democracy look in such a world. Imagine govt being toppled while discussing COMCASA or LEMOA or what not? Even kids of BTM layout I asking a separate country for themselves

Vikas
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Re: One Nation One Election: News & Non-political Discussions

Postby Vikas » 25 Jun 2019 11:54

Eventually Technology will overtake everything including elections. Voting using Blockchain technology, canvassing via SM only and multiple elections spread over a week from LS to RWH. I think the bigger challenge would be - What happens if LS gets dissolved before its expiry date, How do we reconcile such a situation.


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