CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/nitingokhale/status ... 61088?s=20 ---> India gets a new National Cyber Security Coordinator (NCSC). Lieutenant General M Unnikrishnan Nair, a serving Army officer (was Signal-officer-in-Chief) takes over from Lieutenant General Rajesh Pant (retd). NCSC directly works under the NSA (National Security Advisor).

Lt Gen MU Nair takes over as India's top cyber security chief
https://www.hindustantimes.com/technolo ... 08219.html
03 July 2023

[ramana]

So glad its serving officer.

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/SpokespersonMoD/sta ... 19617?s=20 ---> Vice Admiral Atul Anand, today assumed the charge of Additional Secretary, Department of Military Affairs (DMA).

[wig]

https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation ... 93943.html

Indian armed forces likely to get their first Integrated Theatre Command in August


extracts.

“The Jaipur-headquartered South Western Command (SWC) will be the first theatre command, followed by Lucknow-based Northern Theatre Command,” a defence source said.

structure

The South Western Command will initially function as the test-bed ITC in order to iron out the shortcomings and implement the commensurate amendments. The Lucknow-based ITC will be the next in line followed by the Maritime Theatre Command, based out of Karwar in Karnataka, entrusted with the responsibility of the coastal and maritime operations
The commands are being worked out as per the concept of ‘One Border One Force.’ The Western Integrated Theatre Command will be responsible for defence and security concerning Pakistan. Lucknow, which currently is the headquarters of the Central Command of the Indian Army, is to become the headquarters of the Northern ITC, having the entire northern border with China under its area of responsibility.

The proposed ITCs will be created with no liabilities towards the creation of additional posts or ranks, as the structure will be created from the existing command structure of each Service.

[ramana]

How did the SWC Theater Command come up?
All along Northern, Eastern, Western, and Maritime theatre commands were proposed.

Northern command was to be purely an Army and IAF command.
Hope eventually SWTC is merged with Western Command.

[Rakesh]

Army, Air Force to take turns at helming 2 of India’s proposed theatre commands, Navy to head third
https://theprint.in/defence/army-air-fo ... d/1664937/
13 July 2023

[ramana]

Army, Air Force to take turns at helming 2 of India’s proposed theatre commands, Navy to head third
https://theprint.in/defence/army-air-fo ... d/1664937/
13 July 2023

If this was the solution then Gen Rawat could have announced it in 2020.
Rotational chiefs is babufying the Theatre Commands.

These are fighting commands and should be by selection and not by spoils system.

XJP changed his WTC commander three times in the last two years.

Modiji will need to consult these chair marshals if he has to change the commanders during a crisis.

[VinodTK]

Indian Armed Forces Pursuing "Theaterisation" For Technological Superiority & Jointness

In a move toward addressing the dynamic and uncertain global geopolitical situation, the Indian Armed Forces are undergoing a transformational process called "theaterisation." During the DRDO Directors' Conclave in New Delhi on July 14, Chief of Defence Staff General Anil Chauhan laid out a vision that prioritises technological superiority and jointness to meet emerging challenges effectively.
:
:
:

Moving-towards-tri-service-system-officials-promote-unity-among-defence-forces/ar


Indian-armed-forces-likely-to-get-their-first-integrated-theatre-command-in-August

[ramana]

If they can achieve all these steps I guess rotation of TCs is a small price to pay.
I still prefer its by selection and capability.
Its not a a perk.


https://theprint.in/defence/army-air-fo ... d/1664937/

[ramana]

How did the SWC Theater Command come up?
All along Northern, Eastern, Western, and Maritime theatre commands were proposed.

Northern command was to be purely an Army and IAF command.
Hope eventually SWTC is merged with Western Command.

OK Western Theater Command will be at SWC, Jaipur.
Initial report was lazy editing.
The Eastern Theater Command will be Lucknow.

The Army’s South Western, Western and Southern Commands and elements from the Northern Command will come under the Jaipur-based theatre command, apart from the IAF’s Western and South Western Air Commands and elements from the Central and Southern Commands.

“Eventually, all the operational commands of the Army, the Air Force and the Navy will be amalgamated into the three theatres,” a source said.

I expect the Rocket Forces will be dotted line to ETC.

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/BharatShaktiBSI/sta ... 32866?s=20 ---> Rear Admiral Sudarshan Shrikhande (Red) in conversation with Bharat Shakti Editor-in-Chief @nitingokhale.

National Security Strategy: A Must Have?

[vsunder]

I do not know where to post this.

Some of you may have seen the movie Oppenheimer. In that movie there is a character PMS Blackett, a British physicist who is Oppenheimer's advisor at Cambridge and who Oppenheimer disliked and tried to poison by placing a toxin loaded apple on Blackett's desk. This is in the movie. Blackett did pioneering research on cosmic rays and had left wing sympathies. He went on to win the Nobel Prize in 1948. In 1947 he was invited by Nehru to meet him for lunch. At the lunch Nehru quizzed Blackett as to how long it would take for India to Indianize its military. Blackett said something like 18 months, but went on to say it would take several years before India could achieve a semblance of parity with the western powers militarily. Blackett not only was involved in munitions research in WW1, but in WW2 also was in the Operations Research bureau which applied sophisticated mathematics to select German targets, predict areas of the North Atlantic where submarine wolf packs would be operating and so on besides being active in the Manhattan project.

Coming back to Nehru, after that fateful 1947 meeting, till 1972, Blackett advised the Indian military and was instrumental in setting up both DRDO and CSIR labs. India thus took the Russian route of specialized institutions, rather than the American route of having universities do research for which due funds could be released via grants. Blackett also headed committees that regularly reviewed and evaluated Indian institutions like the Tata Institute, and these reports, the Blackett committee reports are rather well known. Bhabha himself worked on Cosmic Rays and so knew Blackett quite well. Here is a 2 part article on the role of Blackett in advising the Government of India on military and scientific matters from 1948-1972. The first part is on JSTOR so cannot be accessed without a university account.

PMS Blackett in India 1947-1972, Military Advisor and Scientific Intervenor---Part 1

https://www.jstor.org/stable/532210

Part 2

https://casi.sas.upenn.edu/sites/defaul ... 201999.pdf


On Blackett

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Blackett

Part 1 deals with Blackett's role with the Indian military and part 2 of his CSIR labs dealings. He was friends with Vikram Sarabhai, Bhabha, SS Bhatnagar, Atma Ram, Mahanalobis, DS Kothari and Nehru and Indira Gandhi of course.

[Rakesh]

National Security Strategy: Neither The Deal-Maker Nor A Deal-Breaker For Theaterisation
https://bharatshakti.in/national-securi ... erisation/

12 June 2023 - By Rear Admiral Sudarshan Shrikhande (Retd)

[ramana]

National Security Strategy: Neither The Deal-Maker Nor A Deal-Breaker For Theaterisation
https://bharatshakti.in/national-securi ... erisation/

12 June 2023 - By Rear Admiral Sudarshan Shrikhande (Retd)

Very apt conclusion

To conclude, it would be good to have an NSS in two versions (there may already be a classified version, but this writer would not be aware of it), but it is difficult to agree that the existence of such a document is a deal-maker for the armed forces or that its absence can be a deal-breaker especially in logically proceeding ahead with theaterisation.

Rear Admiral Sudarshan Shrikhande (Retd)

I too concur. This NSS red herring/bokwas was to slow down theaterization.
Glad thinking folks are seeing through it.

[ramana]

vusnder thanks for the PMS Blackett and his role in Indian science in military and civilian areas.

A very good book is by Robert Merton and Norman Storer (Editor), "The Sociology of Science, theoretical and empirical investigations".
It explores how and why big science succeeds in some countries.

I note that PMSB noted how China was marching ahead in the 1950s in science while India was not.
From what I know the Chinese scientists who returned to China from all over the world were interested in promoting science in China and not ego trips unlike in India.
The ills that were noted are still prevalent.

...One is that it is often much easier
to do good basic research than good applied research of interest to industry. The second reason
is the widespread misapplication (in my view) of the principle of the importance of the
‘freedom of science’… In the field of basic curiosity-driven research, it is fully established
that able research workers should be given the greatest possible freedom to plan and execute
their own research… What has gone wrong, I think, in some government research stations
is that the principle of scientific freedom has sometimes been applied to mission-oriented R
and D, where it is largely inapplicable, instead of only to curiosity R and D where it does
apply.14
In particular, he said that some laboratories:
do not always seem to understand the importance of directing work toward a market
requirement and close collaboration with the industry, and so are surprised when their work is
wasted. Then there are some individuals in certain stations who don’t seem to be trying very
hard to do anything useful but think it is more important to advance basic research.

Just yesterday GOI cracked down on AIIMS for having researchers work for six years without producing any results.
and the AIIMS suspended the order and the folks went on strike!!!

[ramana]

https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1945699

Govt passes ISO (Command, Control & Discipline) bill

Ministry of Defence
azadi ka amrit mahotsav g20-india-2023
Lok Sabha passes Inter-Services Organisation (Command, Control & Discipline) Bill – 2023
Posted On: 04 AUG 2023 1:19PM by PIB Delhi

The Lok Sabha has passed the Inter-Services Organisation (Command, Control & Discipline) Bill - 2023. The bill seeks to empower Commander-in-Chief and Officer-in Command of Inter-Services Organisations (ISOs) with all disciplinary and administrative powers in respect of the personnel serving in or attached to such organisations.

Currently, the Armed Forces personnel are governed in accordance with the provisions contained in their specific Service Acts - Army Act 1950, Navy Act 1957 and Air Force Act 1950. The enactment of the Bill will have various tangible benefits such as maintenance of effective discipline in inter-services establishments by the Heads of ISOs, no requirement of reverting personnel under disciplinary proceedings to their parent Service units, expeditious disposal of cases of misdemeanour or indiscipline and saving of public money & time by avoiding multiple proceedings.

The Bill would also pave the way for much greater integration and jointness amongst the three Services; lay a strong foundation for creation of Joint Structures in times to come and further improve the functioning of the Armed Forces.

Introducing the Bill in the Lok Sabha, Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh termed it as part of a series of military reforms being undertaken by the Government, led by Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi, with the aim to empower the nation. He described the bill as an important step taken towards integration and jointness among the Armed Forces to face the future challenges in an integrated manner.

Salient Features

The ‘ISO Bill - 2023’ shall be applicable to all personnel of regular Army, Navy, and Air force, and to persons of other forces as notified by the Central Government, who are serving in or attached to an Inter-Services Organisation.
This Bill empowers the Commander-in-Chief, Officer-in-Command or any other officer specially empowered in this behalf by the Central Government with all the disciplinary and administrative powers in respect of personnel serving in or attached to their Inter-Services Organisations for the maintenance of discipline and proper discharge of their duties, irrespective of the service to which they belong.
The Commander-in-Chief or the Officer-in-Command means General Officer/Flag Officer/Air Officer who has been appointed as Commander-in-Chief of Officer-in-Command an Inter-Services Organisation.
To maintain Command and Control in absence of the Commander-in-Chief or the Officer-in-Command, the officiating incumbent or the officer on whom the command develops in absence of a C-in-C or Oi/C, will also be empowered to initiate all disciplinary or administrative actions overs the service personnel, appointed, deputed, posted or attached to an Inter-Services organisation.
The Bill also empowers the Commanding Officer of an Inter-Services organisation to initiate all disciplinary or administrative actions over the personnel appointed, deputed, posted or attached to that Inter-Services Organisation. For the purpose of this Act, Commanding Officer means the officer in actual command of the unit, ship or establishment.
The Bill empowers the Central Government to constitute an Inter- Services Organisation.


The ‘ISO Bill-2023’ is essentially an Enabling Act and it does not propose any change in the existing Service Acts/Rules/Regulations which are time-tested and have withstood judicial scrutiny over the last six decades or more. Service personnel when serving in or attached to an Inter-Services Organisation will continue to be governed by their respective Service Acts. What it does is to empower Heads of Inter-Services Organisations to exercise all the disciplinary and administrative powers as per the existing Service Acts/Rules/Regulations, irrespective of the service they belong to.

So the last legal hurdlee to set-up theater commands has been overcome.

[ramana]

India's Theater Commands are similar to conclusions of a West Point study in 2017

https://mwi.westpoint.edu/multi-domain- ... -services/

[VinodTK]

Theatre Commands: Some Food For Thought

[ramana]

A tweet from The Tribune, Chandigarh

https://twitter.com/ajaynewsman/status/ ... 61696?s=20









The babufication of the Theater Commands is going on.
Time for Modiji to lay down the law.
All these questions are nonsense.
For example, the geographic area of responsibility for the PLA Western Theater Command is equal to all of India!!!
And they manage with one commander.
These guys are destroying the idea of theater commands and bring friction just as Clausewitz did not want.
We are back to the nonsense of 1962.

[Rakesh]

Military Brass Mulling Over Structure Of Theatre Commands
https://bharatshakti.in/military-brass- ... -commands/
10 August 2023

[Rakesh]

India’s Rocky Roads to Establish Theatre Commands
https://bharatshakti.in/indias-rocky-ro ... -commands/
14 August 2023

[wig]

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/comme ... ape-538025

Standalone legislation required for theatre commands to take shape
Gen Anil Chauhan’s model includes two land-based country-specific ITCs and two sea-based ITCs that are domain-specific.
by Maj Gen Ashok K Mehta

extracted from the article
current plans

Gen Chauhan, who is from the 11 Gorkha Rifles, like Gen Rawat, has ticked the right boxes — patience, perseverance and persuasion. He has not gone public with the framework of the ITC. His model is apparently more or less identical to other models and includes two land-based country-specific ITCs and two sea-based domain-specific ITCs, including the existing Andaman and Nicobar Command. Additional joint commands in the pipeline relate to logistics, training, cyber and space, missiles and intelligence. It is proposed that the three new ITCs will be commanded by four-star officers who will retire at the age of 61. Other additional joint commands will be led by three-star officers. Land commands will be followed or accompanied by the merger of Eastern and Naval Commands into the Maritime Command, to also include the existing Andaman and Nicobar Command. The ADC has been dropped to accommodate the IAF on comprehensive utility of its assets. The clincher, it seems, is that one of the two land-based commands will go to the IAF.

and

Four-star Generals/ Admirals/Air Chief Marshals will lead ITCs and report to the CDS, who will be responsible for decision-making. It is being said that the Chiefs of Staff Committee will assist the CDS in fulfilling this role. The Service Chiefs, who will remain four-star officers, will be left with the responsibility to raise, train and sustain. Altogether, there will now be seven four-star officers, including the CDS.

Parliament reply

Congress MP and advocate Manish Tewari has written that the Inter Services Organisation (Command, Control and Discipline) Bill, 2023, was passed this month in the Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha without any meaningful debate in Parliament — though a discussion did take place in the Rajya Sabha. The Bill was needed for bringing uniformity in disciplinary matters, cross-posting and promotions in tri-service organisations as each service has its own Act. The Bill will standardise the framework for administrative authority. The Bill is also the legal basis for the government to create theatre commands by restructuring the armed forces. According to Tewari, this will be ultra vires of constitutional jurisprudence if it is used as the legal basis for the CDS. Further, while Clause 3(1) (b) of the Bill defines the CDS, no role is ascribed to him.


I heard the debate in the Rajya Sabha, which was quite pedestrian.Rounding off the debate, Defence Minister Rajnath Singh said the Bill that was passed should not be confused with theatrisation. It is clear that a standalone legislation is required for theatrisation and a separate law to define the institution of the CDS, his role and responsibility.

[Rakesh]

Defence theatre commands back to the drawing board
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/india ... ard-550423
05 Oct 2023

About unifying the Armed Forces: A theatre command entails having all war-fighting assets and forces under a single commander for a specific geographical area | Fresh combinations, permutations being studied.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/ajaynewsman/status/170975 ... 11920?s=20 ---> Theatre commands: Indian military top brass working at fresh permutations and combinations. Many possibilities.

[ashthor]

What are the possibility for a reserve command (reserve force)? Under which command will central & south India come?
What about Bangladesh and Myanmar?

[ramana]

Are the services thinking that the theater commands are an agreement between them and the govt?
The longer the commands are delayed more perverse the logic will be advanced.
How will service chiefs have an operational say for that defeats the concept of theater commands?
I think the theater commander should be a three-star.
The entire Indian sector is just one front for the Chinese Western Theater command and our chiefs want multiple commands.
In fact, Gen Alan Brookes commanded the entire British forces without being called a CDS and it was in multiple theaters.
If there is so much heartburn just make CDS operational commander and screw the theater commands.

Also, the PM had asked for these commands to be set up by August 15.
Then they wanted till the end of Augustand now even longer.
Looks like it is "deny by delay" in process.

[ramana]

Ideally I want to see three theater commands headed by three stars and rest supporting commands.
I want these combat commands reporting to the CDS.

And want these in place maximum by 16 December.

[Rakesh]

Maritime Theatre Command: Getting The Basics Right
https://bharatshakti.in/maritime-theatr ... ics-right/
08 Oct 2023

[AkshaySG]

Defence theatre commands back to the drawing board
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/india ... ard-550423
05 Oct 2023

About unifying the Armed Forces: A theatre command entails having all war-fighting assets and forces under a single commander for a specific geographical area | Fresh combinations, permutations being studied.

Great.. That's another couple of years gone then.

Our principal enemy has adopted theatrization, We do a hundred exercises with US and NATO who have had theatrerization since forever and yet it seems such a difficult pill to swallow for the 3 services.

I'm pretty sure that the result of the drawing board is going to be more theatres (and more 3 star positions as a result) which defeats the point of theatrerization.

The maximum ITCs that make sense in the Indian situation imo are

1. Western Command
2. Eastern Command
3. Maritime (which includes ANC)
4. Strategic Forces
5. Training and Reserve

And even then I feel 4 & 5 are stretching it.

I don't see a need for a separate Southern or Central Command.. Just allot operational areas based on geography ( MP, MH etc in Western, Orissa, AP, CH, JH etc in Eastern) the southern states will primarily be maritime focused anyway.

The real change will need to come in how we train and develop leaders ( at DSSC and other places) wherein senior leadership starts moving beyond " My unit, My service" to a more cohesive approach.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/ANI/status/1723342807866151092?s=20 ---> Chief of Defence Staff General Anil Chauhan, flew a sortie in the Jaguar fighter aircraft of a frontline fighter aircraft squadron in the western sector on 11 Nov 2023.

[bala]

India's unfolding security makeover by Lt Gen Raj Shukla (r) & Lt Gen P R Shankar (r)

The Lt Generals provide their perspective on the unfolding security makeover in India. CDS is discussed, DRDO reform and OFB reform. Many lessons are learnt from the ongoing conflicts and the new generation of weapons, drones, etc. There is talk of sharing data among the 3 forces in India. India holding strong against the Chinese in Galwan, the red sea policing by the Navy, bringing by the ex-Navy personnel from Qatar, the evacuations of Indians from conflict zones like Ukraine, Israel showcase the fact that India's outward projection in the world is gaining respect and now the world realizes the strengths of India. Being defensive all the time is not the whole point of security but offense is required now and then to assert and enforce security. India needs to be little bit more offensive in nature and give headaches to others like China - takeover aksai chin, gilgit/skardu, take some portion of Tibet.

At the global level, many private companies are involved in defense projects which are game changing. The current Defense procurement of India must consider whole heartedly more involvement of the private sector of India in many areas. The area of complete digital enablement for the armed forces can be addressed quite quickly by private sector. Drones is an area that India must quickly adopt for the armed forces and the private sector can help in the journey. In fact India needs a drone force, a missile force and a space force. Asymmetric, unconventional and expeditionary warfare is here to stay and this has to be federated across the armed forces. The civilian side has to be co-opted into Armed forces in many cutting edge technology like AI, Quantum computing, networking, digital enablement, data sharing, command and control, launch on demand and much more. GSQR, L1 and other outmoded process models must be revisited and allow for quicker induction in MoD. We have to provide good orders for Indian companies to innovate and thrive. The criteria should be "best interest in India's armed force and national self-sufficiency" and not just cost. MoD needs to be reformed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=birVs47RS54

[VinodTK]

^^^ Very informative and interesting talk worth watching

[Rakesh]

Are India's Armed Forces Really 'Joint'? Has CDS Post Achieved Anything?

[bala]

CDS at IIT Madras with Lt. Gen P R Shankar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU9-IrnZe-0

Explore the insightful discussion with General Anil Chauhan, as we delved into the theme of "Executing Aatmanirbharta in Defence Operations." With India's reliance on arms imports accounting for 9.8% of global imports, General Chauhan highlighted the importance of strengthening indigenous defence capabilities. With nearly 40 years of experience and prestigious accolades, General Chauhan offered practical insights into achieving self-reliance in defence, addressing strategic challenges, and pathways to secure our nation's future.

[Rakesh]

Plans under way to make Mumbai first tri-service common defence station
https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... n-9242538/
31 March 2024

[ramana]

All questions will be answered in June.

[Rakesh]

CDS Chairs Tri-Services’ Meet To Brainstorm Integration Of Forces
https://bharatshakti.in/cds-chairs-tri- ... of-forces/
08 April 2024

[MeshaVishwas]

viewtopic.php?p=2617535#p2617535
Nothing to do with us, but I wanted to share how I prefer our way versus the Chinese way of doing things.
I give credit to present GoI for giving time and space to the experts in the field to do what's needed.
Need continuity in political leadership.
Apologies if off topic.