2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

[m_saini]

That's fine - I understand the emphasis you're making. Too many posts are focusing on detailed admin structure descriptions. None of it explains why that particular structure is any good. Start from the problem and work down to what's needed...

For me, gov using temple funds isn't even that big of a problem in itself. The main problem (from whatever little i understand) is hinduism is like a headless chicken today when there are visible threats in our own backyard, quite like the time when the British first arrived and saw the thousand little kingdoms busy in their own domestic issues. Apologies if I sound like a conspiracy nut, I realize that hindus aren't simply going to disappear or get eaten in the upcoming years.

Continuing on, I see the idols being broken in Andhra. Don't think it's even an issue in states like Haryana, UP etc. In the Kerala thread, one user points out that "Hindus vote for caste and then cry for religion" and i think it hits the nail on the head. I see the church making huge progress in NE, punjab, southern states etc and people fighting individualistic battles against LJ etc.

For the above reasons, I think a centralized structure would be the best. Consider a crude example, what if india itself was administered in decentralized manner, could Ladakh on it's own stand up to the chini mischief while maha or kerala continue to import chini maal by the billions? Decentralized structure works great if we live in a vacuum and every temple can just focus on their own issues. But we don't. There's a reason why catholic church, which is governed top-down rather than bottom-up, have been so successful over so many centuries. We can arrange the internal organs whatever way we like but the temple management must absolutely be concentrated in a brain at a national level.

[OmkarC]

Again what is the need to lash out against Telugu community like this. And why immediately jump to BJP as solution. I despise BJP but i was as shocked as anyone at headless statue of Sri Rama. As a Telugu person one can be extremely proud of their contribution to hindu dharma. In fact I would wager it is far higher than any language within india. Whether it is the meticulously made Pauranik films from mayabazar to blockbuster Bahubali or exquisitely well maintained temples like TTD or the huge donations I see whenever I visit a temple in USA, Telugu people contributions are massive .

People are lashing out at Reddy community in one post - are they forgetting the labor of love of Nagi Reddy of Vijaya Vahini studios when painfully recreated all mythologies from Pathaba Bhairavi to Maya Bazar.

I notice this disturbing tendency to grit their teeth at Telugu community at any news instead of grieving with it for cultural losses. And by the way attacking temples and idol smuggling are far higher outside of Telugu lands. Just look at this list here https://news.culturecrime.org/country/india.html - Many are from rajasthan, Mp etc.

=== useless rant deleted ===

Perhaps we need to take this to the southern states thread.. but to clarify, nobody is abusing all Telugus - only critical questions are being asked and data is being gathered both experiential and press articles on what's going on in Andhra. The fact that some of these 2-bit caste leaders like CBN, Jagan are treated as demi-gods in Andhra while the PM of the nation & Hindutva-waadis are subject to vile, irrational hatred - is quite irksome to nationalists.

The cavalier attitude with which many Andhra people are dismissing the large number of temple vandalizations across the state are only raising suspicions that the demographic tilt has already happened. And the broader issue - while Hindus are being distracted with fake protests on CAA, farmers agitations - is the rug being pulled underneath the feat w/ vast chunks of hinterland - Andhra, TN, Jharkhand, Chattisgarh, Punjab, Tribal areas of Guj/Maha/MP being systematically proselytized. I think this type of demographic invasion is harder to catch even with an official census, where people report they are nominally Hindus but actually are practicing christians.

Also, no denying the great contributions of someone like NTR or B Nagi Reddy to Hindu culture - but we cant use the great deeds of those people as shields to stop thinking critically about what the current generation is doing. At present, there are stats that show 86% of Reddy community support YS Jagan, despite him being a christian fanatic. And the fact is they are rabidly championing him even after all these events. Its really shameful when we have such so-called "upper castes" who support the causes of anti-Hindu forces, which doesnt happen anywhere else in India.

[sudarshan]

...And why immediately jump to BJP as solution...

What's your solution?

****

One potential response when people unreasoningly blame Modi for everything - play along, take it to ridiculous lengths. Like if I stub my toe - it is Modi's fault for not building that road right. If food is too hot - Modi!! Too cold - Modi!! But gradually, step by step. Swing the pendulum so far to the anti-Modi side, that it becomes ridiculous and unsustainable, and the swing back has to start. If they try to tone you down - yell at them, accuse them of being in on the conspiracy of too hot/ too cold food that Modi started. But make it sound realistic, not like you are joking - need to keep a straight face (or rather - one distorted by fury at evil Modi). Sometimes that's better than trying to patiently defend, when people refuse to listen to reason.

If the above sounds ridiculous: please study some of the trolls who have been active on this forum in the past. There were a couple in the OIT thread (both banned now). There are some more now, but the admins are a lot stricter these days, and the methods have become vastly toned down. It's one of their favored methods, and for good reason.

[Kaivalya]

We have to have a centralized structure which can concentrate resources on problem areas as and when required. Also only when you have a central authority can you ever hope to put in practice ideas like an investment vehicle or manipulate elections.

Here's what the LDS church did with "tithe" of just 16 million members under them.

LDS Church discloses the $37.8 billion stock portfolio of its biggest investment fund

The investment fund, called Ensign ...

Could individual temples acting in a decentralized structure achieve this?

We have to start somewhere...I think one of the earlier suggestion was to start with larger temples and work from there. For example, I looked at the annual income of 21 temples listed here . To make it simpler I took 10 temples to have total 250cr and then 10 temples to have 250cr income on average.

I.e 2750 cr = 3.75b$

We will have 37.5b$ in 10 years...Which can slowly start increasing the positive influence to other temples. As in everything we dont have to solve for "only hindus proof" etc. Day 1 - reality is (like in TN /AP ) much worse than a pretending guy. Like in all loot/leaks plug the biggest ones and use that to make improvements incrementally.


m_sainiji - I agree with the centralized structure suggestion because dharmics( Sikh, jain, Buddhist brothers included) forget to see what binds them together and fight more about the differences even though they might be esoteric and beyond the common man/woman. I feel like decentralization has helped sanathan dharma and also has been the weakness like you pointed out.



https://www.holidify.com/collections/ri ... s-in-india

[Srutayus]

The temple administration topic is an extremely important one and it is great that we are discussing all the issues that matter before even getting started on liberating them from the government. Liberating them is a nonstarter and may even be counterproductive before serious headway on this.
I request the admins to open a new thread for this with the pertinent posts from here.

[Suraj]

2750cr is $375m and not $3.75 billion .

Like I said, income is the wrong measure to depend on . Multiple decades of compounded growth is what generates long term wealth . Take that 375m each year and invest it for 30 years at 12% growth and you have $112 billion .

The churches and mosques aren’t rich because of rich white people and oil , but because of compounded growth over decades.

Those religions are first and foremost big conglomerates. Those massive middle eastern wealth management funds and opaque accounts of Saudi Aramco, and the wealthy tax advantages statuses of churches in the west are there for a singular purpose - the accumulation of inter generational wealth.

[Theeran]

Temple administration has been a fascinating topic for me. I have discussed with others and it always ends up going nowhere.

TN temples own over 5 lakh acres of land. That should in theory generate a lot of revenue. The issue is rent is not paid or ownership was subverted by the 1967 DMK government. Others like the Loyola college and IIT Madras have basically squatted on temple lands and I have no idea if any rent is collected from them.

It will be politically a tough fight to wrest control from the state gov as it is dependent on this revenue. State control of religious bodies will not be independent of political vagaries. Especially with temple haters like dmk.

In a recent case filed by the Indic Society against temple mismanagement, the state gov argued that a secular gov can control a religious place as it was doing the same things the king's were doing in the old days. Which may be true except the kings patronized the temples by donating money and maintaining it.

I don't have a proposal myself but would like to share this report by a professor from IIM Bangalore. It is long but good read. I kindly suggest anyone interested to read in full.

https://www.iimb.ac.in/sites/default/fi ... %20621.pdf

Excerpts

The long term replacement of the old system with the present system of patronage and spoils have led to a void, making it difficult to recreate the structure. It is now a fait accompli and is now projected as if there is no viable alternative. The post-independence government instead of building on the strengths of the old systems sought to completely override the system, and in the process completely undermined and eroded the institution of temples.

The HR & CE role will be a Secretariat role more than an administrative role. It can be part of the administrative secretariat than a separate Commissionerate. We propose that main thrust of the HR & CE department is restricted to playing regulatory, and supportive role

The overall finances of the temple ecosystem of all temples put together should be such that overall the sector is self-sustaining, and can also support temples which live on sustenance.
We propose to group HR & CE temples including hereditary run temples, at three levels:

Tier 1 State level temples which are large or historic or heritage temples with significant resources, and surplus. These are temples which are famous throughout the nation or the state, and have huge tourist traffic and potential for regional development. These are the main resource generators in the temple sector but these will not be more than a dozen in each state. In TN these could be Madurai, Palani, Tanjore, Rameshwaram, Kanchipuram, Tiruchedur, Thirunnalar, Srirangam, etc. In Karnataka it could be Srirangapattnam. We have to view Tirupati Balaji Temple from an entirely different perspective. These may not be more than a dozen.
- Tier 2 Sub - Regional level temples which are popular not just in their respective district but at a regional level, and command resources that can sustain themselves but do not enjoy large surplus. These temples can be , Parthasarathy, Srivilliputthur, and Navagraha temples in Tanjore, temples of Muruga, Vaitheeswaran, etc. These are temples with potential but underleveraged. The proposed restructuring should help unleash these temples to realise their full potential. These again may be about 100 temples in TN.
- Tier 3 Village level and neighbourhood temples which can barely sustain themselves, and are managed with local support. These temples for 90% plus of the temples. The temples will gain a lot and the Government will gain a lot from freeing these temples and handing it over to the local community or village.Presently the government follows the principle of hub and spoke model, where in smaller temples are supported by the larger temples, This model has to be encouraged but the purpose should be providing professional and financial support than just exercising administrative control. This is a long tail which dominates the administrative bandwidth of department, and it is best these are self-administered than centrally controlled. The department will be left with only a few hundred temples.

[m_saini]

^ Some great points. But some quite questionable as well, such as

The temple properties and assets are ultimately public properties and will be in the control of Government. The concept of Devaswom in Kerala is an interesting one. It literally means property of God and the assets resides with the State or Board on behalf of the God. This is the principle which has to be followed. It has to be mentioned that temple properties and revenues are owned by the temple and have to be spent on temple related and religious related operations.

Temple properties are not "public properties" and should not in control of Government. This is *not* the principle which has to be followed.

The pdf also proposes a "TNTAB" (TN Temple Administration Board) and states that

The Board will be the Apex Committee, with the Chief Minister as the Chairperson, Minister in-charge of Endowments as Vice Chairperson, ACS (endowments) Principal Secretary (endowment) as the Member (Secretary), and principal secretaries from related departments, 2 Thakkars of leading temples, 1 head of a mutt, 1 scholar each in temples and ancient literature, architects, experts in aagamas, 2 priests of leading temples, 2 academicians from engineering and management, 2 industrialists, and 1 professional each from CA and law.........We propose that all
51 members should affirm faith in Hinduism, and in the designated Members, they can nominate their second if they belong to another faith.

This imo is a very dangerous slope, especially with the almighty milords terming hinduism as a "way of life" rather than a religion. Extremely easy for a non-Hindu CM to claim he believes in yoga or Kama-Sutra or something and so he is qualified to the the chairperson of such a board. At the same time, very naive to think a 'second' nominated by CM would be anything but a yes-man.

Government involvement in temple management at any stage or level has to be absolutely *zero*.

[Theeran]

That is true but should be seen in the context of smaller temples and village temples. These are prime places for the woke crowd to raise frivolous issues and bring back hrce as it is today. Some oversight has to be there. No single body will be without its political affiliation. The immediate need is to restore the sense of ownership among the common folk.

[m_saini]

If the author meant it in the context of smaller temples, then it's somewhat acceptable until better options are the available. But if I read it right, it was meant for tier 1 temples mentioned in your original post. For tier 3 temples, the pdf says:

Regarding smaller temples (Tier 3) these are best managed by themselves. These will require only light touch regulation and support.These can be managed by the villagers and neighbourhood people themselves with support from patrons. .... This is for bringing self-regulation, oversight and exercise of control.

and

Regarding smaller temples, government can give the trustees the option of managing themselves with support from devotees in the village or neighbourhood. It can be on the model of Public - Public Partnership model (Did they mean Public-Private Partnership?). Here the regular devotees and patrons from the area are the Public part of PPP.

The immediate need is to restore the sense of ownership among the common folk.

+1

[nvishal]

Do you think there is civilian participation in andhras temple vandalism? A don't tell policy? This sort of population is normally common in ghetto areas.

[sanjayc]

^^ Cops scanned CCTV footage and said some people came on motorcycles between 2-4 am for vandalizing.

[nvishal]

I suspect a small group of thugs have been assigned with recce and vandalism of remote temples.

I don't think jagan gains anything from this. He is in a good position wrt to populism support. He wouldn't rock his own boat. I think it is probably a vague TDP leader somewhere gone rogue who is behind this crazy drama. Not to say that CBN himself isn't a crude politician. I cannot say for sure what his limits are.

-----

Added later: I don't know of any instances of protestants attacking or vandalizing temples in kerala or the tribal belts of jharkhand.

The only exception is the north east where temple vandalism is not uncommon. Protestant militants launched a few bombs attacks on some Hindu temples in the 80s in the northeast which killed many local hindus but the militants were all of Mongoloid variety and the movement there is fundamentally based on political christianity. It is uncommon(so far) in traditional Indian territories. The closest comparison to the political christianity movement in northeast is the political Islamic movement in kerala.

[venkat_kv]

250 years is an inordinate amount of time saar, even an AI can't prepare for that.

Judging by the rate the conversions are ongoing, in another 40-50 years there might not even be a need to free hindu temples

That's fine - I understand the emphasis you're making. Too many posts are focusing on detailed admin structure descriptions. None of it explains why that particular structure is any good. Start from the problem and work down to what's needed...

Suraj San,
what you propose is probably good, but it will come after the temples survive. Right now as you have pointed out and a post by Theeran that has an IIMB faculty writing about temples, say that there are far and few temples that make money.

people need to come to temples and also patronize and donate. People will come if they feel they have a reason to come and pray in a temple. Afterall we have heard many times that god resides everywhere, so what is the need for a temple when people can pray in their homes.

The temples need to train people with scholarly knowledge on various rituals and spritual/religious questions that people have. Not having answers for some very basic spiritual/religious questions often leads hindus to question their own faith and walk away to later emerge as a secular/modern person who has no attachment to his roots.

we can see in TV debates where so called intellectuals (mis)quote some scripture and pass more gas in a debate. if people had any basic knowledge atleast at the very least the intellectual can be countered. right now most of the counters seem to come from emotional outbursts of feeling insulted or targeted. Very few people actually bother to correct the narrative in a precise manner.

but in order to have all this first the temple must flourish individually in the short term and then have a support system for other temples in the medium term causing the longterm cumulative effect that you have proposed.

[Kaivalya]

^^^
Suraj -Apologies for my shoddy math.

Atleast in Chennai, TN priests beg not to put money in hundi but buy oil for lamps. Hence my sense of urgency. Understand the compounding effect of multi generational wealth. Even if we start with tier 1 temples and its lands a lot of positive can come out of it. In the minimum we need to stop looting.

Perfection is the enemy of good in this case

[chetak]

no wonder other manufacturers have panicked and are paying off presstitutes to pull down Bharat Biotech, including some woke politicos from the congis

[Ambar]

The Singhu protests is such a simple but yet such a brilliant scheme.

Step 1. Instigate a large mob. And if you fail to do so then hire few thousands.
Step 2. Occupy public land.
Step 3. Incentivize the mob with money, free food, free liquor, incendiary speeches and even live entertainment.
Step 4. Begin constructing permanent structures while also pitching thousands of tents.
Step 5. Make the encroachment permanent. In a metro where a sq ft of land goes for 30k Rs, many who cannot afford homes can just pitch a tent and live there permanently. After all, Delhi is famous for its jhuggis.
Step 6. There you go. You now have protestors, businesses and affordable housing, and this can go on for a long time.

After looking at the drone video of the highway blockade, there is no ways the govt can remove it by force atleast not without considerable bloodshed.

[Tanaji]

As I said before the government has no options left. At some point it will have to accept defeat. The traders are using maximalist positions.

[nvishal]

...there is no ways the govt can remove it by force atleast not without considerable bloodshed.

Why remove them?

The movement flopped without any effort from the central govt. Both haryana and UP are bjp states. Eventually, petitions will be filed with the SC pointing at the road blockades and the SC will chide the centre and instruct it to clear the roads, which it'll do as they did in shaheenbaug.

Once riot gear police marches, the show is over.

[prahaar]

As I said before the government has no options left. At some point it will have to accept defeat. The traders are using maximalist positions.

There is no way the three farm bills will be rolled back. There is not a peep in any other part of India. If the news is accurate the laws have been implemented also in Punjab.

[Ambar]

...there is no ways the govt can remove it by force atleast not without considerable bloodshed.

Why remove them?

The movement flopped without any effort from the central govt. Both haryana and UP are bjp states. Eventually, petitions will be filed with the SC pointing at the road blockades and the SC will chide the centre and instruct it to clear the roads, which it'll do as they did in shaheenbaug.

Once riot gear police marches, the show is over.

Points 4 to 6 in my previous post. The highway blockade is far far bigger than Shaheenbagh , you don't need to have Punjabi farmers squatting there for weeks and months, the bodies can be replaced with anyone looking for cheap housing and free food. These tents and jhopdis can become semi-permanent, after all that's how jhuggis/slums come up. To the world they can say "look, we are still here protesting" but in reality the protest has turned into an economy of itself with small businesses/housing for the poor. Riot police cannot clear this unless GoI decides to go the tiananmen square route, the tent city is already too big.

[chetak]

...there is no ways the govt can remove it by force atleast not without considerable bloodshed.

Why remove them?

The movement flopped without any effort from the central govt. Both haryana and UP are bjp states. Eventually, petitions will be filed with the SC pointing at the road blockades and the SC will chide the centre and instruct it to clear the roads, which it'll do as they did in shaheenbaug.

Once riot gear police marches, the show is over.

It's been building up to a confrontation.

there will be violence and things will get much worse before they get better

there are those among the other pillars of democracy who are watching in anticipation.

construction of brick shelters is a very dangerous variation on the shaheenbagh plan.

There is no dearth of arms in the punjab, many of which had been salted away after the bhindranwale/khalistani fiasco.

it now also includes the paki/cheeni/khalistani money that is pouring in for support and inside support from anti India elements including the commies, jehadis and the congis.

the brick and mortar buildings are worrying and can easily be weaponized by irresponsible hotheads who will be encouraged to do something drastic in the name of the "farmers"

so far so good but once the first shot is fired from any side, the situation will spin out of control

rolling back the farm bills will be the thin end of the wedge and also the beginning of the end of the Modi reforms and so this is just not an option.

UCC and everything other reform will be countered similarly and a roll back forced every time.

the jehadis and the BIF are pushing for mob rule because the BJP has got the election option all sewn up.

this playbook is being run very meticulously by powerful inimical forces.

when the "farmers" are ready to move, women and children will join them and man the front lines so as to prevent firing or even a lathi charge by the police

[SBajwa]

[ManSingh]

The Singhu protests is such a simple but yet such a brilliant scheme.

Step 1. Instigate a large mob. And if you fail to do so then hire few thousands.
Step 2. Occupy public land.
Step 3. Incentivize the mob with money, free food, free liquor, incendiary speeches and even live entertainment.
Step 4. Begin constructing permanent structures while also pitching thousands of tents.
Step 5. Make the encroachment permanent. In a metro where a sq ft of land goes for 30k Rs, many who cannot afford homes can just pitch a tent and live there permanently. After all, Delhi is famous for its jhuggis.
Step 6. There you go. You now have protestors, businesses and affordable housing, and this can go on for a long time.

After looking at the drone video of the highway blockade, there is no ways the govt can remove it by force atleast not without considerable bloodshed.

For a culture that so likes farming and ( some what false ) glorious image of Punjab, settling in tent cities is not an option. PMO has intervened in this crisis ( finally ) and the talks are progressing well. The maximalist statements you see on TV are for news consumption.

Another thing starting to wreck havoc in north India ( Himachal, Chandigarh ) is avian bird flu. In a covid economy, further setbacks will be devastating.

[chetak]

Time magazine appreciates UP CM Yogi Adityanath government's work

[Ambar]

The Singhu protests is such a simple but yet such a brilliant scheme.

Step 1. Instigate a large mob. And if you fail to do so then hire few thousands.
Step 2. Occupy public land.
Step 3. Incentivize the mob with money, free food, free liquor, incendiary speeches and even live entertainment.
Step 4. Begin constructing permanent structures while also pitching thousands of tents.
Step 5. Make the encroachment permanent. In a metro where a sq ft of land goes for 30k Rs, many who cannot afford homes can just pitch a tent and live there permanently. After all, Delhi is famous for its jhuggis.
Step 6. There you go. You now have protestors, businesses and affordable housing, and this can go on for a long time.

After looking at the drone video of the highway blockade, there is no ways the govt can remove it by force atleast not without considerable bloodshed.

For a culture that so likes farming and ( some what false ) glorious image of Punjab, settling in tent cities is not an option. PMO has intervened in this crisis ( finally ) and the talks are progressing well. The maximalist statements you see on TV are for news consumption.

Another thing starting to wreck havoc in north India ( Himachal, Chandigarh ) is avian bird flu. In a covid economy, further setbacks will be devastating.

You don't need farmers from Punjab to live in tents, the tents and now under construction solid structures an be occupied by any and everyone who needs cheap housing in expensive Delhi. PMO intervening or not intervening does not matter because the PJ union leaders have demanded a complete rollback of the bills or nothing. Hence i keep harping the point about Modi govt wasting its time on these laws instead bludgeon through with administrative ordinances.

[chetak]

Hence i keep harping the point about Modi govt wasting its time on these laws instead bludgeon through with administrative ordinances.

Ambar ji

even ordinances have to be converted to law fairly soon.

Promulgation of an ordinance has to be ratified by the President.

Such ordinances carry the full force of a law made by the legislature with one catch. The law only remains in force for six weeks once the Parliament is reconvened, at which time it must be approved by both Houses of Parliament in order to become a law.

[Ambar]

Can new ordinances be introduced to achieve the same objective as the expiring ordinance to continue the process ? For something like MSP which is not codified as a law and where the govt clearly holds all the purse strings, there is nothing stopping them from distributing it equally across the states. Also, tapering the PDS for some of the commercial grains would have meant sooner or later the produce would have ended up being sold to pvt companies at market prices. Bills and new laws make for great optics but the govt needs to weigh them against the efficiency of doing something through administrative procedure than go through this cycle of bill-law-protest.

[ManSingh]

Can new ordinances be introduced to achieve the same objective as the expiring ordinance to continue the process ? For something like MSP which is not codified as a law and where the govt clearly holds all the purse strings, there is nothing stopping them from distributing it equally across the states. Also, tapering the PDS for some of the commercial grains would have meant sooner or later the produce would have ended up being sold to pvt companies at market prices. Bills and new laws make for great optics but the govt needs to weigh them against the efficiency of doing something through administrative procedure than go through this cycle of bill-law-protest.

Ordinances can be promulgated indefinitely once the first one expires. Not a good way to implement changes as the industry will not invest based on a policy that is temporary and not backed by law.

[vera_k]

Ordinances are an emergency measure. The hard work has to be done at some point, no matter what. India has been transforming at break neck speed, so a few months or years of protest are not going to change the trend much.

[Tanaji]

For a culture that so likes farming and ( some what false ) glorious image of Punjab, settling in tent cities is not an option. PMO has intervened in this crisis ( finally ) and the talks are progressing well. The maximalist statements you see on TV are for news consumption.

Another thing starting to wreck havoc in north India ( Himachal, Chandigarh ) is avian bird flu. In a covid economy, further setbacks will be devastating.

Where did you hear PMO is involved or has had discussions with the Protestors?

[ManSingh]

Where did you hear PMO is involved or has had discussions with the Protestors?

I don't think PM will directly talk to those protesting without a clear path to resolution. There are back room discussions.

For his direct involvement, you can check the below link for what's happening:
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punja ... and-194415

[Srutayus]

Remember their Gurus were all Hindu Sadhus.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1346915050464841728

Disgusting.

[chetak]

sorry

post duplicated.

[chetak]

who is funding on this scale.

this is not an organic or even an indigenous protest for sure


via@TheIndiaCable



via@Teamfarmer_

[Bart S]

This has gone too far. High time that the center repays in kind by announcing equitable distribution of FCI and MSP funding to other states like UP and MP based on the population and share of the state in national farm output. No need to keep pampering these Congress and ISI funded anti-nationals.

[Ambar]

who is funding on this scale.

this is not an organic or even an indigenous protest for sure

Exactly what i was referring to in my post. They have turned the highways into tent cities and already constructing permanent structures,there's nothing stopping them from converting this into a permanent slum in the name of protests. It is already so large that it is simply not possible for law enforcement to forcefully evict them without a lot of bloodshed, and even if the original protestors leave they can easily find "tenants" to continue this protest.

[sudarshan]

Delhi-ites still not bothered? Talk about "land acquisition" for real estate.

[ManSingh]

For a culture that so likes farming and ( some what false ) glorious image of Punjab, settling in tent cities is not an option. PMO has intervened in this crisis ( finally ) and the talks are progressing well. The maximalist statements you see on TV are for news consumption.

Another thing starting to wreck havoc in north India ( Himachal, Chandigarh ) is avian bird flu. In a covid economy, further setbacks will be devastating.

Where did you hear PMO is involved or has had discussions with the Protestors?

Another one to give a hint of background work, I got sent this pdf via email from a gov.in sender address ( not IRCTC ).

https://transformingindia.mygov.in/wp-c ... glish-.pdf

I think this forum is on a very different tangent than what the govt thinks.

[vimal]

who is funding on this scale.

this is not an organic or even an indigenous protest for sure


via@TheIndiaCable



via@Teamfarmer_

First image is from the 2013 Kumbh Mela. Reference: https://kerranelamassa.fi/maha-kumbh-me ... -festival/
Second one can be from anywhere in the world. and not really that many people.
MOTS; Don't trust everything on the Internet.

Punjab is not UP or Bihar, its a relatively smaller state with even smaller population; out of which basically the jutts are protesting. These freebies are expensive and hard to sustain more than a few months. I'm sure they can hire professional protestors but everything costs money and unless you are uncle Sam no one has unlimited supply. In fact such long drawn out protests are are a huge drain on the finances of the organizers.

I hope they hire a lot of out of work migrant laborers so that the pandemic induced poverty is reduced.