Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
They kind of did that with SSLV, till either people, or ISRO itself, got bored.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
Physical Research Laboratory, Ahmedabad
PRL Ka Amrut Vyakhyaan-02 on
Wednesday, 11 August 2021 @16:00 hrs. IST
https://www.prl.res.in/prl-eng/hi/activ ... _vyakhyaan
https://www.prl.res.in/~dinesh/02_11.08 ... ijcnBszQiO
शीर्षक : REACHING THE SKY: INDIAN LAUNCH VEHICLES: PRL Ka Amrut Vyakhyaan 02
दिनांक : 11-08-2021
समय : 16:00:00
वक्ता : Shri S. Somanath
क्षेत्र : DEAN'S OFFICE
स्थान : ONLINE
PRL Ka Amrut Vyakhyaan-02 on
Wednesday, 11 August 2021 @16:00 hrs. IST
https://www.prl.res.in/prl-eng/hi/activ ... _vyakhyaan
https://www.prl.res.in/~dinesh/02_11.08 ... ijcnBszQiO
शीर्षक : REACHING THE SKY: INDIAN LAUNCH VEHICLES: PRL Ka Amrut Vyakhyaan 02
दिनांक : 11-08-2021
समय : 16:00:00
वक्ता : Shri S. Somanath
क्षेत्र : DEAN'S OFFICE
स्थान : ONLINE
The story of rockets in India started in a fishing village of Thumba near Thiruvananthapuram, where Thumba Equatorial Rocket Launching Station (TERLS) for launching sounding rocket was established. The first launch was on November 21, 1963, which carried a 20 kg payload to a height of 200 km using an American made Nike-Apache rocket.
Indian space program so far developed five launch vehicles and has presently three operational vehicles with payload capability up to 4000kg. The story of the development of SLV-3 is a fascinating one, which is linked to the inspiring story of Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam. The multidisciplinary nature of the technology, technology denials, its strategic nature and dual use possibility made rocket technology a complex affair and to be mastered with hits and misses. The development of SLV-3 and ASLV were the learning grounds and the PSLV onwards became operational vehicles, as envisaged by Dr. Satish Dhawan in his famous Dhawan diagram. SLV-3 was successfully flown in 1980 and placed a 35 kg Rohini spacecraft in a low earth orbit. The development of ASLV was aimed at demonstration of the technologies needed for the launch vehicles in the operational phase. The PSLV programme which commenced during the ASLV period became the workhorse of ISRO and has recorded a series of successful missions with many evolutions to its credit. The development of GSLV enabled India to place operational communication satellites in GTO. Development of cryogenic technology was a landmark achievement which culminated in the realization of fully indigenous C25 stage for GSLV Mk-III.
Today India is one among the few nations which has the capability to design and realize any class of satellites and launch from its own soil. The remarkable missions of Chandrayaan and Mangalyaan were achieved with PSLV and GSLV Mk-III. This vyakhyaan will cover the evolution of launch vehicles, the key technologies mastered, present strengths in this domain, current developments and future programs keeping in view of the technological and industrial strength this nation has at present.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
Four-metre diamtre ogive-shaped payload fairing for the first time.
The GISAT payload consists of:
700 mm Ritchey-Chretien telescope based on the design of Cartosat 2
Array detectors in VNIR, SWIR and LWIR bands
High-resolution multi-spectral VNIR (HRMX - VNIR): 50 m resolution
High-resolution multi-spectral (HRMX - LWIR): 1.5 km resolution
Hyper-spectral VNIR: 320 m and 192 m resolution
Hyper-spectral SWIR: 320 m and 192 m resolution
Data handling system and camera electronics
Transmit antenna system which is electronically steerable
High agility platform to enable large payload steering requirements
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
ISRO@isro
52 m tall GSLV-F10 carrying EOS-03 at the launch pad in Sriharikota.
Live telecast of launch begins at 05:10 am IST on Aug 12, 2021
https://isro.gov.in/watch-live-launch-o ... 10-hrs-ist
https://twitter.com/isro
https://facebook.com/ISRO
https://youtu.be/nMAQdfjWXvM
52 m tall GSLV-F10 carrying EOS-03 at the launch pad in Sriharikota.
Live telecast of launch begins at 05:10 am IST on Aug 12, 2021
https://isro.gov.in/watch-live-launch-o ... 10-hrs-ist
https://twitter.com/isro
https://facebook.com/ISRO
https://youtu.be/nMAQdfjWXvM
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
Thanks for the links Chetak saar! Watching it live, much appreciated.chetak wrote:Live telecast of launch begins at 05:10 am IST on Aug 12, 2021
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
Watching live on DD news HD.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
Is this gslv mk 2m_saini wrote:Thanks for the links Chetak saar! Watching it live, much appreciated.chetak wrote:Live telecast of launch begins at 05:10 am IST on Aug 12, 2021
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
everyone seems a bit worried....
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
Tense no data from cryo
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
It seems not good
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
damn the cryo curse again!
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
Mission failed. Cryo failed.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
wont look good on the current isro head... lunar landing also failed...
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
Probably the disruption due to covid etc. led to some organizational laxity....ISRO for some reason has been the worst hit due to these disruptions. This is unlike the US and Russia where space launches continued as usual in spite of society in general having been even more severely hit by covid.These countries probably managed to keep strategically important sectors running without disruption through these times.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
The last telemetry screenshot available in public (see https://i.imgur.com/ZmnG1Q0.png for instance) seems to indicate that CUS IGN was commanded. No confirmation of the same. The lack of velocity gain after CUS IGN command seems to indicate that CUS failed to ignite in the first place. May boil down to some QC issue. The possibility of sabotage given the value of this satellite for national security should also be looked into.
Last edited by ramdas on 12 Aug 2021 08:19, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
due to the long delays, the hardware might have deteriorated on the shelf.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
loss of satellite is a bigger loss
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
Its okay. ISRO is burning oil to go through the telemetry.
Good you spotted the CUS IGN commanded and yet no increase in velocity.
Most likely not in the ignition train. Usually they have dual trains for ignition systems.
So could be pump issue. Seals etc.
Good you spotted the CUS IGN commanded and yet no increase in velocity.
Most likely not in the ignition train. Usually they have dual trains for ignition systems.
So could be pump issue. Seals etc.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
I completely agree with that view.ramdas wrote:The possibility of sabotage given the value of this satellite for national security should also be looked into.
This is a staged-combustion CUS and we have 6 successful launches of this since c. 2014. Just yesterday, Somnath was talking about our mastery in CUS.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1425631254913843202
ISRO confirms that CUS ignition did not take place. In GSLV D3 it seemed that ignition did not happen, but was later found out that CUS ignition took place but turbopump issues prevented thrust from being sustained beyond 2.2 secs. Corrective measures were then taken. Maybe the repeated loading of cryo propellants and emptying that this particular CUS stage underwent (due to various other issues) and the long delays due to covid undermined the integrity of some components. Of course, sabotage is another angle that should be looked into.
ISRO confirms that CUS ignition did not take place. In GSLV D3 it seemed that ignition did not happen, but was later found out that CUS ignition took place but turbopump issues prevented thrust from being sustained beyond 2.2 secs. Corrective measures were then taken. Maybe the repeated loading of cryo propellants and emptying that this particular CUS stage underwent (due to various other issues) and the long delays due to covid undermined the integrity of some components. Of course, sabotage is another angle that should be looked into.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
A thorough Flight Investigation Team will look at all aspects and come to the root cause.
There will be a specific failure signature that all postulates/scenarios have to meet to determine the root cause.
Good that it can be isolated to the CUS.
SS, Six successful launches don't guarantee that the 7th will work.
In fact, if you take rank probability six successes in a row, the probability with 90% confidence is 0.9829 So there is a chance of not succeeding.
There will be a specific failure signature that all postulates/scenarios have to meet to determine the root cause.
Good that it can be isolated to the CUS.
SS, Six successful launches don't guarantee that the 7th will work.
In fact, if you take rank probability six successes in a row, the probability with 90% confidence is 0.9829 So there is a chance of not succeeding.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
ramdas, Do we know if they had dual ignition trains? And if so what do they use in that train? HVDs and Energy Transfer Systems to Igniters?
Added later...
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/15-nov-2 ... -qualified
And the pyrogen igniters appear to be a standard design since 1992.
Added later...
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/15-nov-2 ... -qualified
So what they are saying is CMD IGN was sent however the igniters for the main engine didn't perform. Pre-burners are not an issue.The indigenous Cryogenic Upper Stage (CUS) is powered by a regeneratively cooled cryogenic engine, which works on staged combustion cycle developing a thrust of 69.5 kN in vacuum. The other stage systems include insulated propellant tanks, booster pumps, inter-stage structures, fill and drain systems, pressurisation systems, gas bottles, command block, igniters, pyro valves and cold gas orientation and stabilisation system. Liquid Oxygen (LOX) and Liquid Hydrogen (LH2) from the respective tanks are fed by individual booster pumps to the main turbo-pump, which rotates at 39,000 rpm to ensure a high flow rate of 16.5 kg/sec of propellants into the combustion chamber. The main turbine is driven by the hot gas produced in a pre-burner. Thrust control and mixture ratio control are achieved by two independent regulators. LOX and Gaseous Hydrogen (GH2) are ignited by pyrogen type igniters in the pre-burner as well as in the main and steering engines.
Apart from the complexities in the fabrication of stage tanks, structures, engine and its sub-systems and control components, CUS employs special materials like Aluminum, Titanium, Nickel and their alloys, bi-metallic materials and polyimides. Stringent quality control and elaborate safety measures have to be ensured during assembly and integration.
Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre (LPSC) is the lead centre for the development of Cryogenic Upper Stage with the involvement of Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC) and other ISRO centres as well as several industries, both in public and private sector.
The successful ground test of the indigenous Cryogenic Upper Stage for the full flight duration has validated the design robustness and performance adequacy for its use in GSLV.
And the pyrogen igniters appear to be a standard design since 1992.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
I have'nt seen any information regarding this.ramana wrote:ramdas, Do we know if they had dual ignition trains? And if so what do they use in that train? HVDs and Energy Transfer Systems to Igniters?
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
Sad day for ISRO. ISRO is regressing. Number of launches have plummeted and now this failure. At the same time Chinese, and US private players are sending so may satellites so successfully.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
An old 1992 ISRO publication says pyrogen igniter consists of HTBP propellant in fiberglass case. A pyro chain consists of an igniter, 2 safe/arm units, and Energy Transfer Assemblies.
Usually, they use fresh pyro chains to ensure no handling lapses due to assembly/disassembly.
So a thorough pedigree search will tell what was the history of these components.
No it's not a sad day. It's an opportunity to make the process robust.
Usually, they use fresh pyro chains to ensure no handling lapses due to assembly/disassembly.
So a thorough pedigree search will tell what was the history of these components.
No it's not a sad day. It's an opportunity to make the process robust.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
+1
Any guesses on how soon we can build the next satellite?
Funding is not an issue right?
Any guesses on how soon we can build the next satellite?
Funding is not an issue right?
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time its enemy action"
GISAT-1 has seen an unusual number of setbacks. There were even murmurs that we delayed its launch due to Amreeki pressure once. The possibility of sabotage needs to be looked into.
For some reason, this satellite seems to worry a lot of people.
GISAT-1 has seen an unusual number of setbacks. There were even murmurs that we delayed its launch due to Amreeki pressure once. The possibility of sabotage needs to be looked into.
For some reason, this satellite seems to worry a lot of people.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
+1akashganga wrote:Sad day for ISRO. ISRO is regressing. Number of launches have plummeted and now this failure. At the same time Chinese, and US private players are sending so may satellites so successfully.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
How about giving R/D a rest?
This launch was to geo-synchronous using cryoengine.
Not if this launches you all are praising use cryogenic engines.
Only liquid fuel rockets.
This launch was to geo-synchronous using cryoengine.
Not if this launches you all are praising use cryogenic engines.
Only liquid fuel rockets.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
This is probably not the first time old material (due to delays in launch) might have caused problem. It was speculated before too.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
That could be so. But it is equally likely that a sophisticated satellite like a hyperspectral sensor is heftier, has additional power requirements and must be placed in a more challenging orbit, all of which complicate the launch process over and beyond the GSLV's typical bread-and-butter envelope of success.Prem Kumar wrote:"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time its enemy action"
GISAT-1 has seen an unusual number of setbacks. There were even murmurs that we delayed its launch due to Amreeki pressure once. The possibility of sabotage needs to be looked into.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
the only reasonable gripe is slow pace of launches we still havent been able to touch 12 launches an year. COVID might have played a role but still it doesnt justify that we dont seem to be on plan for this. Ultimately it is due to allocation of funds. These failures are part and parcel of the game.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
We might not have funds for this but how about they do some dummy launches for cryogenic every month and be done with it. I mean this also puts a ? on manned flight safety if we can’t fix these issues and report anomaly quickly. All down to meagre budgets obviously.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
Saddened and disturbed by this news. Meagre budgets cant be the excuse - ISRO has some amazing achievements, that doesn't mean it has to remain the same decade after decade. More innovation, pvt sector participation and org redefine is needed to reinvent itself.
Sabotage angle must be probed, cant rule it out.
Replacement EOS-3.1 needs to be built asap and put into space. In the current situation, such failures are unaffordable.
Sabotage angle must be probed, cant rule it out.
Replacement EOS-3.1 needs to be built asap and put into space. In the current situation, such failures are unaffordable.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
And all this on Vikram Sarabhai birthday..
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
We should try to salvage EOS 3 satellite and repurpose it for Astronomy. Its 70 cm aperture telescope for earth observation is bigger than Astrosat's 38 cm aperture telescope that is dedicated for astronomy. Plus the former is optimized for SWIR and Visible, while latter is for UV and visible range.
Assuming its stranded at 139 km altitude, where the CUS was supposed to fire, detach it from CUS, use its onboard feul to boost it to 500 km hubble orbit and use it for Astronomy.
Assuming its stranded at 139 km altitude, where the CUS was supposed to fire, detach it from CUS, use its onboard feul to boost it to 500 km hubble orbit and use it for Astronomy.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
A few things to remember:
Accidents happen
And major accidents happen rarely.
Heinrich triangle says for 100 incidents, 85 are glitches, 13 are minor accidents and 2 will be major accidents. So keep that perspective.
As for recovering the satellite, not its altitude, and use your physics to calculate the G force with which it hits the ground/sea level.
The altitude per that ISRO screenshot on Twitter was 139.74 km. ie. 139740 m.
Assume the vertical velocity component is zero for ease of calculations. The CUS was horizontal to earth anyway by then.
USe g= 9.81m/sec^2.
Do the math.
Amber G if they falter, guide them. Don't give the answer yet.
Accidents happen
And major accidents happen rarely.
Heinrich triangle says for 100 incidents, 85 are glitches, 13 are minor accidents and 2 will be major accidents. So keep that perspective.
As for recovering the satellite, not its altitude, and use your physics to calculate the G force with which it hits the ground/sea level.
The altitude per that ISRO screenshot on Twitter was 139.74 km. ie. 139740 m.
Assume the vertical velocity component is zero for ease of calculations. The CUS was horizontal to earth anyway by then.
USe g= 9.81m/sec^2.
Do the math.
Amber G if they falter, guide them. Don't give the answer yet.
Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion
Let's work on the anomaly mechanism.
It's clearly being pointed to the lack of CUS Ignition.
ISRO knows CUS Ign CMD was issued.
Now CUS needs the turbopumps operating and pump gases to the combustion chamber.
The liquid O2 and H2 need to be vaporized and pumps running.
The sequence released show that CUS IGN Auth was ~23 secs prior to the CUS IGN CMD
So the fuel system was running and they probably have pump speed and pressure sensors data.
So it's the pyro chain that didn't function.
So lets work on this.
It's clearly being pointed to the lack of CUS Ignition.
ISRO knows CUS Ign CMD was issued.
Now CUS needs the turbopumps operating and pump gases to the combustion chamber.
The liquid O2 and H2 need to be vaporized and pumps running.
The sequence released show that CUS IGN Auth was ~23 secs prior to the CUS IGN CMD
So the fuel system was running and they probably have pump speed and pressure sensors data.
So it's the pyro chain that didn't function.
So lets work on this.