Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Dec 2023 20:22

https://x.com/writetake/status/1730553072630579608?s=20 ---> Air Marshal Praveen Keshav Vohra has taken over as SASO of Western Air Command. A fighter pilot with 3,500+ hours of flying primarily on MiG-21 variants and MiG-29 aircraft, he has commanded No 47 Sqn Black Archers, of which he is now the Commodore Commandant. He was also one of the founder members of the SKAT.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Dec 2023 21:37

VIDEO: https://x.com/ANI/status/1730550130221494389?s=20 ---> Chandigarh: Air Marshal Vibhas Pande, IAF Maintenance Command chief, says, "For Sukhoi 30, our dependency is on HAL. For MiG-29, we have done a lot of indigenisation. The Russia-Ukraine conflict had no impact on the MiG-29 operation. For Su-30, I would also like to say that, with the support of HAL, we have been able to sustain the fleet very well. It has not affected our operation so far. But if the conflict continues for a long time, then it may have some effect... You'll be happy to know that the update program of the MiG-29 has been completed without complete supply by the Russian side."

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Dec 2023 21:53

https://x.com/rajatpTOI/status/1730444515595657695?s=20 ---> Air Marshal Makarand Ranade, who was commissioned in the fighter stream in Dec 1986 and was last the Senior Air Staff Officer at Western Air Command, is the new Director General (Inspection and Safety) at Air HQ.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Dec 2023 22:33

Grounded for years, IAF set to overhaul Mi-26 copters at Chandigarh airbase with Russian assistance
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/india ... nce-567798
01 Dec 2023

Image Source: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1730821 ... 41534?s=20

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Dec 2023 22:52

Air combat evolving, time to catch up
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/featu ... e_vignette
01 Dec 2023

By Air Marshal Anil Chopra (Retd)

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Dec 2023 23:37

Who will get the cryptic message in the tweet below?

Hint: Message is in the bolded part.

https://x.com/IAF_MCC/status/1730776403791269982?s=20 ---> Tigersharks high on Adrenalin after a long SUNDAy stretch.

Possible (?) video of the above photograph ---> https://x.com/Rethik_D/status/1730881393251807241?s=20

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Dec 2023 00:04

Rakesh wrote: ↑02 Dec 2023 23:37 Who will get the cryptic message in the tweet below? Hint: Message is in the bolded part.

https://x.com/IAF_MCC/status/1730776403791269982?s=20 ---> Tigersharks high on Adrenalin after a long SUNDAy stretch.

Possible (?) video of the above photograph ---> https://x.com/Rethik_D/status/1730881393251807241?s=20

https://x.com/AN_Command/status/1730875 ... 47748?s=20 ---> Exercise Dweep Shakti showcased its prowess in long-range strikes using indigenous weapons and air-to-air refueling thereby contributing towards our nation's security. Air Marshal Saju Balakrishnan, CINCAN steered a Su-30MKI maritime strike mission of Tiger Sharks.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 21 Dec 2023 19:46

More twin seater Mirage 2000s are being acquired, probably to be used as spares. Also AL-31FPs for Su-30MKIs and RD-33s for MiG-29UPGs

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1737 ... 68652?s=20 ---> IAF's Planned acquisitions for the years 2023-24 and 2024-25.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 21 Dec 2023 19:47

MAFI Phase 2

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1737 ... 72552?s=20 ---> UPDATE: Modernisation of Air Field Infrastructure (MAFI) Project Phase-II.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 21 Dec 2023 19:54

The Parliamentary Committee of Defence

has suggested that the Govt should acquire 5th generation fighters for the Indian Air Force!

Here we go again!

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1737 ... 89407?s=20 ---> The committee suggested that Government should consider buying 5th Generation Fighter Jets over the counter.

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 21 Dec 2023 20:34

Rakesh wrote: ↑21 Dec 2023 19:54 The Parliamentary Committee of Defence has suggested that the Govt should acquire 5th generation fighters for the Indian Air Force!

Here we go again!

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1737 ... 89407?s=20 ---> The committee suggested that Government should consider buying 5th Generation Fighter Jets over the counter.

"Parliamentary Committee of Defence" explains it all ..people with zero knowledge on strategy or long-term vision. WTH they were advocating buying fifth gen platforms off shelf

.. quite a compromised bunch.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 21 Dec 2023 20:58

drnayar wrote: ↑21 Dec 2023 20:34 "Parliamentary Committee of Defence" explains it all ..people with zero knowledge on strategy or long-term vision. WTH they were advocating buying fifth gen platforms off shelf .. quite a compromised bunch.

I am now really tempted to close this thread ----> viewtopic.php?t=7634

And start the following thread ---> MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode IV

Who all will enter the fray I wonder? F-35? Su-57? KF-21? Su-75?

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 21 Dec 2023 21:07

Rakesh wrote: ↑21 Dec 2023 20:58
drnayar wrote: ↑21 Dec 2023 20:34 "Parliamentary Committee of Defence" explains it all ..people with zero knowledge on strategy or long-term vision. WTH they were advocating buying fifth gen platforms off shelf .. quite a compromised bunch.
I am now really tempted to close this thread ----> viewtopic.php?t=7634

And start the following thread ---> MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode IV

Who all will enter the fray I wonder? F-35? Su-57? KF-21? Su-75?

Episode IV – A New Hope : The MultiFighter Wars .. an Indian Saga ... in a strange gala of the old Empire ..at the capital Delhi

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 22 Dec 2023 15:56

Rakesh wrote: ↑21 Dec 2023 19:46 More twin seater Mirage 2000s are being acquired, probably to be used as spares. Also AL-31FPs for Su-30MKIs and RD-33s for MiG-29UPGs

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1737 ... 68652?s=20 ---> IAF's Planned acquisitions for the years 2023-24 and 2024-25.

These may be overhauled Mirage-2000 twin seaters that will be used operationally. the IAF is short of twin seat Mirage-2000s that it needs for training.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 22 Dec 2023 15:58

So, the R-73E missiles used on the SAMAR SAM are all shelf-life expired and have been refurbished and upgraded to be used as SAMs instead of AAMs.

IAF inducts SAMAR air defence system

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has inducted the Surface to Air Missile for Assured Retaliation (SAMAR) system, an IAF source told Janes on 20 December.

According to the source, the service also test-fired the system in mid-December at Air Force Station Suryalanka located in the southern coastal region of India.

The source did not elaborate on the number of systems the service has inducted. However, another IAF official told Janes in February that the first batch will include five SAMAR units.

SAMAR is a short-range air-defence system jointly developed by the IAF's 7 Base Repair Depot (BRD) and 11 BRD in association with Indian private-sector companies Simran Flowtech Industries and Yamazuki Denki.

The system provides air defence against low-flying aerial targets with a maximum striking range of 12 km.

SAMAR employs the IAF's shelf-life-expired Russian Vympel R-73E infrared‐guided air-to-air missiles (AAMs). The AAMs are refurbished and upgraded to perform surface-to-air roles and the missiles can be launched in both single and salvo mode.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 22 Dec 2023 16:07

What gives the IAF the confidence that the system will function as intended. If the system is shelf life expired.

titash · Post by **titash** » 22 Dec 2023 19:23

Pratyush wrote: ↑22 Dec 2023 16:07 What gives the IAF the confidence that the system will function as intended. If the system is shelf life expired.

I assume 'shelf life expired' would mean the missile has been flown XX times and cannot be mounted on aircraft any more. Once the propellent and warhead has been refurbished, it can still be used from the ground?

LakshmanPST · Post by **LakshmanPST** » 22 Dec 2023 20:55

Rakesh wrote: ↑21 Dec 2023 19:54 The Parliamentary Committee of Defence has suggested that the Govt should acquire 5th generation fighters for the Indian Air Force!

Here we go again!

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1737 ... 89407?s=20 ---> The committee suggested that Government should consider buying 5th Generation Fighter Jets over the counter.

What if this happens--->
1) Based on this report, India cancels MRFA and starts fresh Tender for 5th Gen fighter...
2) Tejas Mk2 is already delayed
3) No. of squadrons are falling
4) So, buy 3-4 squadrons of Rafale to fill in squadron numbers
5) Drag the new 5th Gen fighter Tender for eternity and cancel after AMCA is ready...

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Dec 2023 22:06

^^^ Very possible.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 25 Dec 2023 11:40

We just funded roughly 1 billion dollars towards Tejas MK2. I hope none of these happen at this juncture. $$$ Check from govt is a big deal. Once that flows, there is not much to stop Mk2 from taking shape. Everything else like MRFA will get delayed as those things take time to get hammered out. It is possible Rafale deal may move very fast once signed as we have hammered out a lot before, but manufacturing and making in India for parts still needs working out.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 27 Dec 2023 13:16

Rakesh wrote: ↑21 Dec 2023 19:54 The Parliamentary Committee of Defence has suggested that the Govt should acquire 5th generation fighters for the Indian Air Force!

Here we go again!

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1737 ... 89407?s=20 ---> The committee suggested that Government should consider buying 5th Generation Fighter Jets over the counter.

Remember I had mentioned a couple of weeks ago that there was a chance for the felon to still show up? The more we see irritations between the US and India (pannun, xi-biden meets, f414 sword), the more inviting russki maal feels to decision makers.

hgupta · Post by **hgupta** » 27 Dec 2023 17:33

All this means nothing if India does not develop its own engine program at warp speed. Right now our engine program is our weakest link. A chain is only strong as its weakest link.

bala · Post by **bala** » 28 Dec 2023 23:30

Understanding IAF plans to boost its fighter jet squadron strength

An analysis is done by Indian Defense Analysis. FWIW..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3I2Kd-suqQ

srai · Post by **srai** » 01 Jan 2024 01:16

Pratyush wrote: ↑22 Dec 2023 16:07 What gives the IAF the confidence that the system will function as intended. If the system is shelf life expired.

Probably primarily for 2nd-tier air defense of rear areas and for engaging “lesser-value/simpler” aerial targets. Mass attack tactics (drones + missiles (cruise + ballistic)) being employed in the Russian-Ukrainian conflict requires plenty of stocks for targeting drones. Ballistic and cruise missiles require more capable new AD systems, which would need to be preserved for such selective interceptions.

There are around 4000+ R-73s and 1000+ R-23s. So plenty of stocks against drones and to provide coverage across India.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 05 Jan 2024 11:30

Pratyush wrote: ↑22 Dec 2023 16:07 What gives the IAF the confidence that the system will function as intended. If the system is shelf life expired.

The very next sentence, that states that they are refurbished and upgraded?

Many AAMs have a shelf life based on the number of flights they are carried on, due to the stresses they encounter in flight. On the ground, used as SAMs, their life can be much longer if their propellant is not life expired.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 06 Jan 2024 07:40

Mods please feel free to move it to UAV thread if appropriate but here is a good talk on AURA program and some basic understanding of the aerodynamics by Air Marshal GS Bedi.

Also asked him a question on X asking if he saw any future for Shaheed type drones in Indian Armed forces? quoting his reply below

They should have future anywhere I suppose, not really sure on the Indian status

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 06 Jan 2024 08:53

Not air marshal Bedi.

We have to stop seeing Shahid as a just a simple drone. It is a low cost and medium capacity cruise missile.

A system like this can be game changing, with the proliferation of low cost single board computing and simple image matching capacity. These can be very cheap and very effective.

While they are relatively easy to shoot down using even older AA guns. But the absolute numbers of potential targets for this system in the enemy hinterland will make it very expensive to defend against.

Especially when your enemy has access to a robust supply automobile engines.

Imagine the following.

A relatively modern 1300 cc petrol engine is capable of producing 150 hp with turbo charger. That gives you sufficient power for an Arial vehicle with following attributes.

1) 600 kg launch weight, with rocket assistance,

2) 100 litres of fuel with a range of about 1200 kms.

3) 50 to a 100 kg warhead. This may not be massive, but it's sufficient power to deal with most non hardened civillian targets, such as electricity substations, fuel depots, grain storage, etc.

pravula · Post by **pravula** » 06 Jan 2024 09:39

Just a nitpick. Stock non-turbo 1000cc motorcycle engines have been pushing well past 200bhp for a decade now. Turbo 1300cc engines have been making 300+bhp for 25+ years (specifically engines on Suzuki Hayabusa)

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 06 Jan 2024 10:21

Thanks for your input. This just makes my point stronger, that systems like the Shahed 136 are game changing in terms of deep strike for nations like us.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 07 Jan 2024 08:10

I am with all of you. That is why I asked him the question. This is perfect project to be completely outsourced to private industry perhaps Bajaj / Hero/ TVS or even Kinetic guys. These are cheap can be made in their existing set-up, Low R&D cost and the possibilities to use them by all 3 wings of Army plus coast guards, BSF and others is immense, Imagine BSF using it in Rann of Kutch in Harami Nala area for recon. Make it so much easy to reach there any time of day or night and keep an eye. So many such simple uses with just a simple camera and transmitter. Same in Himalayas do not have to climb mountains or request headquarters for support. Cheap expendible can be made locally 100% in quantities and can bring these companies listed into defense ecosystem it it totally win win with export potential too

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 07 Jan 2024 10:12

Brad Goodman wrote: ↑07 Jan 2024 08:10 ... This is perfect project to be completely outsourced to private industry perhaps Bajaj / Hero/ TVS or even Kinetic guys. These are cheap can be made in their existing set-up, Low R&D cost and the possibilities to use them by all 3 wings of Army plus coast guards, BSF and others is immense...

Cheap expendible can be made locally 100% in quantities and can bring these companies listed into defense ecosystem it it totally win win with export potential too

+1

So simple & straight forward that there is no money to be made/benefits to be taken by any of the entrenched lobbies. Hence no one will push for it.

<sorry folks am still angry with cancellation of our desi reaper. i don't buy the flimsy reasons given (specs not met, concentration of efforts on Archer NG blah blah)>

ashthor · Post by **ashthor** » 07 Jan 2024 10:29

+1

So simple & straight forward that there is no money to be made/benefits to be taken by any of the entrenched lobbies. Hence no one will push for it.

<sorry folks am still angry with cancellation of our desi reaper. i don't buy the flimsy reasons given (specs not met, concentration of efforts on Archer NG blah blah)>
[/quote]

+1

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 07 Jan 2024 11:00

Literally peanuts versus their actual needs. The Govts underfunding of the military will have disastrous consequences unless reversed rapidly.

Rakesh wrote: ↑21 Dec 2023 19:46 More twin seater Mirage 2000s are being acquired, probably to be used as spares. Also AL-31FPs for Su-30MKIs and RD-33s for MiG-29UPGs

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1737 ... 68652?s=20 ---> IAF's Planned acquisitions for the years 2023-24 and 2024-25.

dinesh_kimar · Post by **dinesh_kimar** » 08 Jan 2024 19:30

^ There was a 2021 article in HT, apparently under ACM RKS Bhaduria, they not only acquired Rafale, but also 24 Mirage 2000 planes, for 1 Million USD each. 13 are flyable after servicing, of which IAF/HAL has extensive facilities, and remaining are for spare parts, 300 having been identified as critical. Seems to tie in with M-53 engine indigenous spares we saw recently. So, maybe a squadron more of M-2000, plus attrition replacement.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 10 Jan 2024 21:13

dinesh_kimar wrote: ↑08 Jan 2024 19:30 ^ There was a 2021 article in HT, apparently under ACM RKS Bhaduria, they not only acquired Rafale, but also 24 Mirage 2000 planes, for 1 Million USD each. 13 are flyable after servicing, of which IAF/HAL has extensive facilities, and remaining are for spare parts, 300 having been identified as critical. Seems to tie in with M-53 engine indigenous spares we saw recently. So, maybe a squadron more of M-2000, plus attrition replacement.

Side Note - The Qatari M2K sale to Indonesia has fallen through. UAE is still looking for a foreign customer for some of its Mirage 2000s.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 10 Jan 2024 21:14

Deal with Russia to overhaul Mi-26 helicopters gets going, IAF’s aerial lift capability to get boost
https://theprint.in/defence/deal-with-r ... t/1910913/
05 January 2024

IAF's three Mi-26 heavy lift helicopters are currently grounded. Once they're overhauled, India will be first country to have both Russian Mi-26s & American Chinooks in operation.

srai · Post by **srai** » 11 Jan 2024 00:39

Rakesh wrote: ↑10 Jan 2024 21:13
dinesh_kimar wrote: ↑08 Jan 2024 19:30 ^ There was a 2021 article in HT, apparently under ACM RKS Bhaduria, they not only acquired Rafale, but also 24 Mirage 2000 planes, for 1 Million USD each. 13 are flyable after servicing, of which IAF/HAL has extensive facilities, and remaining are for spare parts, 300 having been identified as critical. Seems to tie in with M-53 engine indigenous spares we saw recently. So, maybe a squadron more of M-2000, plus attrition replacement.
Side Note - The Qatari M2K sale to Indonesia has fallen through. UAE is still looking for a foreign customer for some of its Mirage 2000s.

Instead of the 21 MiG-29 (previously semi-completed state), better now to raise 4th Mirage-2000 squadron with Qatari/UAE stocks. They are already at UPG levels. Also, use the opportunity to backfill losses and increase reserves of the existing 3 squadrons.

Move 3rd and 4th Mirage squadrons from Gawlior to Rafale bases in Hasimara and Ambala.

Indonesian M2K deal with Qatar was for quite a reasonable amount.

https://www.asianmilitaryreview.com/202 ... l-on-hold/

…
The TNI-AU stated that it had signed a €733 million contract in January 2023 to acquire the QEAF’s Mirage fleet, comprising nine single-seat Mirage 2000-5EDA aircraft and three twin-seat Mirage 2000-5DDA aircraft.

…

According to the TNI-AU, the original deal also provisioned for 14 spare engines, unspecified weapons, ground support equipment, crew training and other ancillary support, including up to three years of support services.
…

UAE has 56 Mirage-2000-9, which recently went for further upgrades in 2019. Interested countries are Egypt, Morocco and Greece.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 11 Jan 2024 02:06

Qatar and tsp are same friendship wise. We have more chance of China selling us j31 than Qatar selling us M2k.
Please can we have some mature conversation.

Avik · Post by **Avik** » 11 Jan 2024 04:29

^^^^^^^^^
Thank you Fanne for introducing a dose of realism here..

Qatar is holding 8 veterans hostage, and we have people bloviating here about sourcing M 2000s from there...

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 11 Jan 2024 05:02

Please do not equate the present fate of our 8 naval veterans in Qatar - that are being held hostage - with other issues between the two countries. When the death sentence was imposed, who knew that the death sentence would then get negated to life imprisonment? Tomorrow, even the life imprisonment could be vacated. This issue - which is obviously very important to India - will run parallel to other issues, including military personnel exchanges, military exercises and more. Tying relations to a single issue is not how geopolitics work. This is how Pakistanis think (i.e. Kashmir) and we know how that has worked out for them.

And as for Pakistan, they are beggars who run around with a begging bowl and will jump, dance and strip for anyone who offers them money. The PAF is in Qatar right now with their J-10Cs, exercising with and against Qatari Air Force EF Typhoons. The PAF will squeeze every last drop of PR out of this event. But even Qatar knows that in the long run, partnering with Pakistan offers them no advantage. All this talk of Ummah, Muslim Brotherhood, etc will only sell to the gullible at the Mosque/Madrassa. But in the real world, money talks and Pakistan has nothing to offer.

Below is Modi with Al-Thani @ COP28 in Dubai last month.

PM Modi meets Qatar's ruler, discusses well-being of Indian community
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 597750.ece
02 Dec 2023