Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 29 Nov 2023 07:42

SU30MKI with say 200-400 KM range standoff weapon is a very superb in breaking -the-door mission. In fact it is very stealth plane at that point. Many targets cannot see it and that can see cannot do much about it, except track the standoff weapon coming their way.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 29 Nov 2023 07:46

Karan M wrote: ↑29 Nov 2023 04:00 ...Going forward it's the Su30s that will pull more strike missions as they are getting weapons the Mirages aren't. These include the SAAW, LRGB both winged and standard, PGHSLD both winged and standard, Nirbhay, Brahmos, the Israeli Rock and most importantly the Rudram series. The mix of all these munitions plus the upgrade and Astra series AAMs would make the Su30 the preeminent strike platform in the IAF inventory.

Great. 'Super' Sukhoi indeed.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 29 Nov 2023 12:08

I am willing to bet that if another Balakot happens, we will use Spice again (or Rampage or Scalp). Not Indian munitions.

We have not seen large orders of SAAW, Garuda/Gautham/Gaurav (G-series) or Rudram-1. Rudram-2 is in development stage. We don't have the equivalent of JDAM conversion kits. So, effectively nothing that competes with Spice/Rampage/Scalp

We need to ramp this up in a big way. Especially the SAAW, G-series and our JDAM-equivalent - these will constitute the bulk of our munitions and if we make them all precise/lethal, it will transform our airpower in a substantial way at very low cost. That's because even 4th gen aircraft will punch way above their gen-level

I hope the IAF does not develop a blindspot in this area, with their focus on A2A combat

Kersi · Post by **Kersi** » 01 Dec 2023 11:45

What is 'Crystal Maze' ?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 01 Dec 2023 12:27

It's an eletro optically guided bomb kit for Mk80 series of bombs.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 01 Dec 2023 14:23

Per the AoN yesterday, Rs 64K Crore package to upgrade 84 Su-30 MKIs with

1) Uttam
2) Astra & other desi munitions
3) SPJ/EW
4) RWR
5) IRST (I think)
6) Mission computer & other avionics

Other than the airframe & engines, pretty much everything else is Indian!

But the price is steep, coming in at $100 Million per plane. Compare it to $80 Million for a brand-new Tejas-Mk1a

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 01 Dec 2023 15:07

Lets unpack to see how awesome this is:

1) Sensor package
a) Uttam: the IAF must be mighty pleased with Uttam to replace the powerful BARS radar with it, giving Zhuk-AESA a bye-bye
b) IRST: we must have made considerable progress to include this in the upgrade package. Great move, because it will be production/field-tested before it makes it to Tejas-Mk2

2) Munitions
a) Astra-1 must have performed really well
b) Confidence in desi-munitions like Rudram and the ability of HAL to integrate our sensor package with Indian and Russian missiles

3) Avionics: this has been proven over a decade with Tejas and other upgrade programs that there is a high degree of certainty

4) EW
a) RWR is already Indian
b) SPJ must be coming along well and getting proven on Tejas. Better than the SAP pod

The above pieces must not only work well by themselves but also with each other. So well that they are better than those of the OEM. This will provide a fantastic opportunity to do Su-30 upgrade packages for air-forces the world over

Here is a somewhat old article about the DARE efforts to upgrade Su-30 MKI - but lots of interesting details

https://www.livefistdefence.com/how-a-s ... -su-30mki/

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 01 Dec 2023 17:01

Still no MAWS?

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 01 Dec 2023 17:42

Didn't see any mention of it. I haven't seen MAWS mentioned in the context of Tejas-Mk1a either. DRDO has a program but not sure how mature it is. Might make it to Tejas-Mk2

RajaRudra · Post by **RajaRudra** » 01 Dec 2023 19:38

Prem Kumar wrote: ↑01 Dec 2023 15:07
a) Uttam: the IAF must be mighty pleased with Uttam to replace the powerful BARS radar with it, giving Zhuk-AESA a bye-bye
b) IRST: we must have made considerable progress to include this in the upgrade package. Great move, because it will be production/field-tested before it makes it to Tejas-Mk2

https://www.livefistdefence.com/how-a-s ... -su-30mki/

If we are to replace the existing BARS radar with Uttam. What we are going to do with the discarded BARS? Should we be able to resell the same to Russia itself. With the war attrition there in the Ukraine front, this could be a welcome addition for them and we are doing some payment out of the Rs they are holding here for our oil import.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 01 Dec 2023 19:57

The speed of our upgrade is not going to result in any Bars for the Russians in timeframe usable for them.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 01 Dec 2023 23:18

If there's any life left in parts like Bars, they'll form spares for remaining 190 aircraft.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 02 Dec 2023 01:51

Or use as radar pickets to cue in short and medium sams

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Dec 2023 03:51

Su-30MKI, Rafale simulators must be networked for complex combat scenarios: IAF Chief
https://www.wionews.com/india-news/su-3 ... ief-655152
04 Nov 2023

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 02 Dec 2023 04:00

Well - that's not how it will work. Unless they both use the same simulation software and the software can show other simulators in the same system, it won't work. It's not for a lack of an ethernet router. Good ask, though! I hope they buy their future simulators from one vendor and then simulate all the planes we fly on. Or just use some of the gaming software; you can create all you want for mission planning. You don't have to simulate flying characteristics to the T like a real flight simulator, but planning and enemy response can be modeled nicely already.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 02 Dec 2023 09:05

If this system is implemented fleetwide. Then the Su 30 and Rafale should be able to speak to each other during airborne missions.

It should be a relatively trivial for the simulators of the two aircraft to talk to each other.

IAF develops indigenous 'Vayulink' platform for jammer-proof communication
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ne ... 519727.ece[
17 February 2023

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 14 Dec 2023 21:36

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1734 ... 78221?s=20 ---> Hindustan Aeronautics Limited to conduct the instrumented carriage trials of the Dual (LH & RH) ASPJ on the Su-30MKI. The qualification testing activities of the ASPJ pods have been completed satisfactorily.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 14 Dec 2023 21:38

Rakesh wrote: ↑14 Dec 2023 21:36 https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1734 ... 78221?s=20 ---> Hindustan Aeronautics Limited to conduct the instrumented carriage trials of the Dual (LH & RH) ASPJ on the Su-30MKI. The qualification testing activities of the ASPJ pods have been completed satisfactorily.

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1734 ... 91175?s=20 ---> UPDATE:

+ CASDIC (Combat Aircraft Systems Development & Integration Center) had proposed an indigenous EW suite consisting of internal RWR and a podded jammer system in the form of LH & RH ASPJ pods. HAL Nashik has carried out the detailed feasibility study for integration of the EW suite on the Su-30MKI. This activity has been completed on 30 June 2023.

+ CASDIC has submitted the proposal for the EW suite on the Su-30MKI to Air HQ. The process of initiation of AON (Acceptance of Necessity) for the sanction of a project for the same has been initiated by Air HQ.

+ It is proposed to take up the detail design activities for installation of an EW suite on the Su-30MKI based on the feasibility study report.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 14 Dec 2023 21:44

Rakesh wrote: ↑14 Dec 2023 21:36 https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1734 ... 78221?s=20 ---> Hindustan Aeronautics Limited to conduct the instrumented carriage trials of the Dual (LH & RH) ASPJ on the Su-30MKI. The qualification testing activities of the ASPJ pods have been completed satisfactorily.

https://x.com/Firezstarter1/status/1734 ... 90814?s=20 ---> Brilliant news & how DRDO, IAF and HAL are upgrading our legacy equipment to absolutely modern standards. If IAF deploys these pods fleet wide, the Flankers will excel in their air dominance mission. Modern AESA SPJs lighter than Russian units.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 15 Dec 2023 04:18

Prem Kumar wrote: ↑29 Nov 2023 12:08 I am willing to bet that if another Balakot happens, we will use Spice again (or Rampage or Scalp). Not Indian munitions.

We have not seen large orders of SAAW, Garuda/Gautham/Gaurav (G-series) or Rudram-1. Rudram-2 is in development stage. We don't have the equivalent of JDAM conversion kits. So, effectively nothing that competes with Spice/Rampage/Scalp

We need to ramp this up in a big way. Especially the SAAW, G-series and our JDAM-equivalent - these will constitute the bulk of our munitions and if we make them all precise/lethal, it will transform our airpower in a substantial way at very low cost. That's because even 4th gen aircraft will punch way above their gen-level

I hope the IAF does not develop a blindspot in this area, with their focus on A2A combat

SAAW has already received AON so orders are guaranteed. BDL already received a preproduction order. Brahmos has been ordered. There are also items like PG HSLD. IAF is moving a file for Rudram 1. Rudra 2/3 are in trials. We don't know what all IAF has ordered via emergency purchases. Usually it takes some time for production to stabilise post order placement too. Astra was ordered last year and it is now entering service (https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 372583.ece). Rudram might take similar time & SAAW lesser time once orders are placed.

srai · Post by **srai** » 15 Dec 2023 08:07

Back in a 2017 document, procurement plan was for 1000/year of two LRGB types: 125kg and 500kg.

viewtopic.php?p=2227436&sid=b5d9a769e70 ... 9#p2227436

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 15 Dec 2023 20:11

https://x.com/rajatpTOI/status/1735529578658173116?s=20 ---> After upgrade by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, Su-30MKI will be 78% indigenised: IAF chief Air Chief Marshal V R Chaudhari. Reporting by @DSandip_TOI in @timesofindia

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 15 Dec 2023 20:20

Rakesh wrote: ↑15 Dec 2023 20:11 https://x.com/rajatpTOI/status/1735529578658173116?s=20 ---> After upgrade by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, Su-30MKI will be 78% indigenised: IAF chief Air Chief Marshal V R Chaudhari. Reporting by @DSandip_TOI in @timesofindia

https://x.com/Aryan_warlord/status/1735 ... 89064?s=20 ---> The "Tejas dividend" to be used to upgrade the Su-30MKI. Those who compare the JF-17/FC-1 with the Tejas, miss the crucial difference that while the design, electronics, engine & much of the aero structure of the FC-1 are imported, the design, aero structure, cockpit & much of the electronics for the Tejas are made in India by Indian companies that developed these technologies from scratch for the LCA program. The investment is now paying rich dividends in the form of homegrown avionics spinoffs, that will go towards upgradation of legacy platforms like the Su-30MKI.

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 15 Dec 2023 21:20

What’s with percentages?
Are the core systems like engines locally manufactured?
All hawa baji??

bharathp · Post by **bharathp** » 15 Dec 2023 21:31

exactly - 78% of what? weight? volume? cost?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 15 Dec 2023 21:47

vimal wrote: ↑15 Dec 2023 21:20 What’s with percentages?
Are the core systems like engines locally manufactured?
All hawa baji??

bharathp wrote: ↑15 Dec 2023 21:31 exactly - 78% of what? weight? volume? cost?

First, see this post from Jan of this year ---> viewtopic.php?p=2576636#p2576636

I am not sure how they are deriving or coming to the percentage of 78%, but my guess would be the following --> of all the new sub-systems that are being installed, how many of them will be indigenous. So *SOME* sub-systems of what is coming onboard are the following;

* New radar (Uttam)
* New IRST: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7861&start=320#p2547084
* Carbon fibre wings
* New EW / ASPJ suite: viewtopic.php?p=2609492#p2609492
* Upgraded datalink
* New weapon suite (almost entirely Indian)
etc, etc, etc....

Out of the above, much of it (if not all, but I don't know) will be local maal. So I am assuming, they are going down the sub-system list that is being added on to the aircraft and checking off what all new sub-systems are local and how many new sub-systems are foreign. Based on that, they are coming to a figure of 78%.

The *KEY* takeaway from the Super Sukhoi upgrade is this ---> Reduce reliance on Russia and in the larger picture, reduce reliance over any foreign country. The more local systems the IAF can add on to foreign combat aircraft in service, that much less the IAF has to rely on foreign nations to continue servicing our weapon platforms. That is the point. The obvious outlier to this theory (and which is coming!) will be the MRFA contract

But even in there, you will see a greater level of Indian content in the chosen aircraft.

Don't get caught up over the figure of 78%. If you have been noticing, Air HQ and especially this Air Chief have been harping on Atmanirbhar Bharat for one *SOLE* reason and that is because of messaging. Order 97 additional Tejas...talk about Atmanirbhar Bharat; Super Sukhoi upgrade...talk about Atmanirbhar Bharat. And that is because the MRFA is coming and it will be in the region of around six squadrons. So put out the messaging now, so tomorrow no one can point fingers at Air HQ and say that they are import pasand.

I believe that the MRFA will be the Rafale, but will have to wait for official confirmation.

See this post ---> viewtopic.php?p=2609568#p2609568
^^^ Truer words have never been spoken!

bharathp · Post by **bharathp** » 15 Dec 2023 22:17

Rakesh ji,

I do understand the greater push for Indian subsystems. and we are seeing this bearing fruit in the missiles (AA/AG) as well as radars/avionics (radar/ SPJs)
what I want to understand on that 78% (and my reason for picking that number), is that, there is certainly some calculation thats going on to get to that number. I just want to know what that is.

is it based on number of LRUs + sub systems?
based on costs?

if they have that number, they do that the numerator/denominator for sure.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 15 Dec 2023 22:37

My assumption is it is based on sub-systems and LRUs. The cost will be based on that.

Once again, I am not claiming that as fact. That is the only logical explanation that I can think of. Air HQ would obviously know best.

srai · Post by **srai** » 16 Dec 2023 05:06

Regarding 78%, in Indian terms it comprises of both Make-in-India Transfer-of-Technology license production as well as Research, Design & Developed Made-in-India systems.

With ToT, HAL can manufacture Su-30MKI from raw materials along with the AL-31 engine. Some of the components are still sourced from OEM though.

As far as the Super Su-30MKI upgrades go, it will replace majority of the computers, avionics, radar, EW and other sensors that were of Russian origin.

Read somewhere Su-30MKI (at the final Stage 4 production end) were at 51% built in India. Rest 49% sourced from Russia. Now with the upgrade plan replacement of majority of internal components with Indian-made systems, that figure considered Make/Made-in-India will be going up by another 27%.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 16 Dec 2023 06:28

vimal wrote: ↑15 Dec 2023 21:20 What’s with percentages?
Are the core systems like engines locally manufactured?
All hawa baji??

If you don't know why don't you research instead of making such comments on this thread.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 16 Dec 2023 07:18

bharathp wrote: ↑15 Dec 2023 21:31 exactly - 78% of what? weight? volume? cost?

You guys who've been around on the forum long enough should know enough by now. India calculates indigenization by both LRU count and by cost. Former ensures overall indigenization targets are constantly progressed. Latter ensures the most important and high value add components are also indigenized where possible. This was eight years back itself. We've indigenized far more by now.

Through years of building the Su-30MKI, HAL Nashik has gradually mastered the expertise that makes it one of the world’s most feared fighters. Says the chief of HAL’s Nashik facility, S Subrahmanyan: “More 51 per cent of the Su-30MKI by value is currently made in India, a little more than the 49 per cent agreed with Russia in the contract signed in 2000 to build 140 fighters in India.

Of the 43,000 components that go into a Su-30MKI, 31,500 components --- or 73 per cent --- are now being built in India.

Further indigenisation is blocked since the Indo-Russian contract mandates that all raw materials that goes into the Su-30MKI --- including 5,800 titanium blocks and forgings, aluminium and steel plates, etc --- must be sourced from Russia. The contract also stipulates that another 7,146 items like nuts, bolts, screws and rivets must be sourced from Russia.

HAL has also partially indigenised the Su-30MKI’s giant AL-31FP engines, which are built in Koraput, Odisha. 53 per cent of the engine by cost has been indigenised, with the remaining 47 per cent consisting of high-tech composites and special alloys --- proprietary secrets that Russia will not part with. Even so, HAL builds 87.7 per cent of the engine’s components in India.

https://www.ajaishukla.com/2014/10/firs ... ashik.html

Note we can indigenize spares (not for new builds ) and that is what we are doing. He is also mistaken about further indigenization being blocked etc. A lot depends on us.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 17 Dec 2023 08:57

Why are we being so harsh? Chinese do the same and call their platforms J15 J16... We are not doing a paint job like bandar, there are seriously cutting edge stuff being designed and integrated into these birds. We still call it SU-30 and not made in India with fancy names

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Jan 2024 08:37

IAF to extend life of Russian Su-30MKI fighter jet fleet by more than 20 years
https://www.aninews.in/news/national/ge ... 231183416/
31 Dec 2023

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Jan 2024 08:39

Responses to the above ^^^ article....

https://x.com/Indrani1_Roy/status/17414 ... 97640?s=20 --->

1. One of the most agile and maneuverable airframes,
2. AESA radar
3. Astra Mk1, Mk2, SFDR BVRAAMs
4. A whole slew of dumb, guided bombs and anti-ship missiles
5. A whole slew of anti-ARM missiles
6. Air launched Brahmos
7. Sophisticated EW suite

A force to reckon with!

https://x.com/Firezstarter1/status/1741 ... 88399?s=20 ---> India basically had Russia make a F-15E out of an air superiority fighter. And today, is taking it further then the Russians did with the Su-30SM, bar the latter's new engines.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 11 Jan 2024 21:51

Long-range missiles, electronic warfare to latest radar tech — what upgraded Su-30MKI will look like
https://theprint.in/defence/long-range- ... e/1916462/
10 January 2024

Fighter jet will also be equipped with enhanced avionics systems, sensors & new generation long range air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 11 Jan 2024 21:57

Tweets below are in response to article in the post above.

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1744 ... 24143?s=20 --->

- Integrated EW Suite "Navachakshu".
- Rudram-2 (a&b), Astra Mk-1&2, Rudram-3 missiles.
- GaN based AESA radar.
- New Cockpit and Mission Computer

And much more

https://x.com/tttt7716/status/1744987380187308396?s=20 ---> What is Rudram-2 a&b?

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1745 ... 73369?s=20 ---> One with Anti Radar and other with EO*
*EO (electro-optical)

https://x.com/iam_udit_t/status/1744961 ... 90320?s=20 ---> DR118 Dhruti RWR?

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1745 ... 99816?s=20 ---> Next Generation RWR

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 23 Jan 2024 20:38

https://x.com/IafSac/status/1749772927934017593?s=20 ---> The Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari visited Thanjavur AFS recently. During his visit, he was briefed about various roles and tasks of the station. He reviewed the operational preparedness of the station and flew a sortie in a Su-30MKI aircraft. During his interaction with Station personnel, he stressed on the need for being fully prepared to meet all contingencies.

https://x.com/ANI/status/1749797399026073747?s=20 ---> Indian Air Force Chief, Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari today visited Thanjavur AFS recently and flew a sortie in a Su-30MKI fighter aircraft there. During his visit, he was briefed about various roles and tasks of the station. He reviewed the operational preparedness of the station: IAF officials.

https://x.com/livefist/status/1749800105279181132?s=20 ---> Indian Air Force Chief, Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari after a sortie today in a Su-30MKI at Thanjavur AFS. The No 222 Tigersharks Squadron is home the IAF's BrahMos-armed Flankers.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 23 Jan 2024 21:18

VIDEO: https://x.com/hqwaciaf/status/1749693760609333413?s=20 ---> Why Sukhoi-30MKI is the Backbone of the IAF? Explore the inspiring capabilities of the Indian Air Force's Su-30MKI - the Backbone of the Indian Air Force, an unparalleled fighter aircraft that stands as a testament to engineering marvels. In this film, discover the unique features that make the Su-30MKI a force to be reckoned with in the skies. From its tailored design integrating cutting-edge technology from various nations to its exceptional endurance, payload, and the game-changing BrahMos-A missile, this aircraft redefines air dominance. Witness how this colossal fighter, produced in India by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, serves as a testbed for pioneering systems developed by DRDO labs. The ongoing upgrades, set to transform it into the 'Super Sukhoi,' promise an even brighter future for this formidable aircraft. Join us in unveiling the power and significance of the Su-30 MKI – a true force multiplier in the Indian Air Force's arsenal.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 31 Jan 2024 19:51

https://x.com/TheLegateIN/status/175261 ... 91049?s=20 ---> Indigenously developed Long Range Dual Band Infra-Red Search & Track System (IRST) for Su-30MKI found to have far superior detection capabilities as well image processing capabilities than older Russian OLS-30/35 IRSTs.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 01 Feb 2024 11:10

The same device or its deravatives are also going to be useful for the AMCA.