Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 11 Dec 2023 07:19

First LCA Mark1A fighter aircraft squadron to be deployed at Nal air base

The Indian Air Force is planning to raise the first squadron of the indigenous LCA Mark1A fighter aircraft squadron at the Nal air base in Bikaner district of Rajasthan near the Pakistan front. The first LCA Mark1A aircraft is expected to be delivered to the Indian Air Force by February-March time frame by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defenc ... 880974.cms

g.chaks · Post by **g.chaks** » 11 Dec 2023 15:51

ashishvikas wrote: ↑11 Dec 2023 07:19 First LCA Mark1A fighter aircraft squadron to be deployed at Nal air base
https://m.economictimes.com/news/defenc ... 880974.cms

Although on perpetual lurking mode, couldn't desist from posting when saw this news!

Having spent 4years in early 90's at Nal when dad was posted on 37 Sqn, vividly remember frequent scrambles to check on the "bogies" crossing over from the other side and also evening chaiwala talks on incidents of an odd "black panther" straying across "inadvertently".

I'm not sure if such cat and mouse play is still on, but would provide excellent opportunity for the Mk-1A's to hone their reaction times in real time!

Requesting admins to please remove if this is not appropriate for this thread.

Best regards
g.chaks

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 11 Dec 2023 20:29

Thank you Ashish Saar for the excellent news and g.chaks, that was a great post.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 11 Dec 2023 20:30

I removed my own posts (scroll up on this page) because they were cut-and-paste articles from other sources.

I cannot verify the claims in this article (from the same website), but posting FWIW...

No. 3 Squadron (“Cobras”) of the Indian Air Force (IAF) will acquire modern Tejas Mk1A fighter jets
https://defence.in/threads/no-3-squadro ... jets.1048/
11 Dec 2023

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 11 Dec 2023 20:39

What is interesting is that first Mk1A squadron will not be raised at Sulur AFS to iron out ‘issues’. I think the platform has matured and ready for front line duty (in spite of the Mk1A having decent amount of new stuff over FOC/IOC jets).

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 30 Dec 2023 22:52

Battle Cry: New Improved Tejas Lands In Weeks | New High For India’s Tejas fighter jets

pushkar.bhat · Post by **pushkar.bhat** » 30 Dec 2023 23:10

They say in the corporate sector that any transformation gathers momentum once the CFO sees value in It. I think the Finance Advisors in South Block will soon start seeing the impact of Tejas and other programs like Akash on their balance sheets and suddenly the magic will happen. I am confident that the tipping point is not too far away.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 31 Dec 2023 17:02

Rakesh wrote: ↑30 Dec 2023 22:52 Battle Cry: New Improved Tejas Lands In Weeks | New High For India’s Tejas fighter jets

I hope HAL starts deliveries on time.. Feb is just weeks away.

If deliveries to start in Feb, we should start seeing first flight in Jan itself.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Jan 2024 09:06

https://x.com/_devildog_rv_/status/1739 ... 31093?s=20 ---> LCA Tejas (KH-2018), in LCA Mk-1A testbed configuration, armed with AIM-132 Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile (ASRAAM). The Tejas family in near future, will flaunt an arsenal of three different CCMs: R-73E from Russia, Python-5 from Israel and NGCCM from UK.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Jan 2024 19:01

https://x.com/officialTatya_1/status/17 ... 76425?s=20 --->
Gangadhar hi Shaktiman hai Mitro!
ASRAAM = NGCCM

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 04 Jan 2024 15:01

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/17 ... -PGZQ&s=19 ---> #TejasDay Update 1

* Top sources in HAL confirm that LCA MK1A is shaping up well both on design as well as production front.

* The certification flight testing is on track and is heading towards completion. Important sensors have already been integrated.

* IAF sources confirm that to fasten up the certification process and software validation of certain systems, two FOC aircraft have been given to ADA and ARDC to incorporate systems specific to MK1A.

* These two FOC fighters are meant to undertake ground and flight trials with Mk1A systems and upgraded software.

* Full structural assembly for MK1A is over and the first aircraft is under advanced stage of equipping.

* The first aircraft will be rolled out from the Aircraft Division of HAL.

* LCA Division of HAL is currently completing all the Trainers (18).

* The first flight of LCA Mk1A is expected by Feb/March 2024.

Update 2 in a while.

srai · Post by **srai** » 04 Jan 2024 16:46

ashishvikas wrote: ↑04 Jan 2024 15:01 * IAF sources confirm that to fasten up the certification process and software validation of certain systems, two FOC aircraft have been given to ADA and ARDC to incorporate systems specific to MK1A.

* These two FOC fighters are meant to undertake ground and flight trials with Mk1A systems and upgraded software.

Interesting bit! It means even Mk1 could be relatively easily upgraded into Mk1A equivalent (but probably without the internal restructuring).

LakshmanPST · Post by **LakshmanPST** » 05 Jan 2024 01:40

ashishvikas wrote: ↑04 Jan 2024 15:01 * Full structural assembly for MK1A is over and the first aircraft is under advanced stage of equipping.

* The first aircraft will be rolled out from the Aircraft Division of HAL.

* LCA Division of HAL is currently completing all the Trainers (18).

* The first flight of LCA Mk1A is expected by Feb/March 2024.

So, my guess was somewhat correct---> viewtopic.php?p=2521419&hilit=Mk1A#p2521419

The timelines released earlier only pertain to 73 Mk1A jets, The 10 Trainers in Mk1A order will be delivered first...
Aircraft division and 3rd line will be dedicated to Mk1A jets, while LCA division will produce Trainers first before shifting to Mk1A production...
Producing all Trainers continuously from LCA division for the next 2-3 years would mean Trainers will be available earlier and more pilots can be trained in advance...
----
The production timelines for Tejas will be as follows:-

2024:- 3 Mk1A from Aircraft division, 5 Trainers from LCA division (Mk1 order)
2025:- 3+8 Mk1As from Aircraft division & 3rd line; 5 Trainers from LCA division (Mk1A order) - [Total 14 Mk1A+5 Trainers]
2026:- 3+8 Mk1As from Aircraft division & 3rd line; 5 Trainers from LCA division (Mk1A order) - [Total 25 Mk1A+10 Trainers]
2027:- 3+8+5 Mk1As from all 3 Lines - [Total 41 Mk1A+10 Trainers]
2028:- 3+8+5 Mk1As from all 3 Lines - [Total 57 Mk1A+10 Trainers]
2029:- 3+8+5 Mk1As from all 3 Lines - [Total 73 Mk1A+10 Trainers]
----
I have not considered the new 4th line that would increase capacity to 24 jets per year... If I also include new order for 97 jets, it would be over-speculation... So, leaving them out for now...

srai · Post by **srai** » 05 Jan 2024 02:19

^^^
Have to factor in the new 97 order too as well as the fourth line. The orders will overlap with the 83.

Bangalore (16) -> 3 lines (note: Tejas (8) one plus counting previously Kiran (3) & Hawk (5) ones as separate) [officially two lines: 8 & 5+3]

Nashik (8) -> 4th line [officially 3rd line]

Plus, don’t discount the large private partners like L&T (wings), DT (front fuselage), VEM (center fuselage), AT (rare fuselage) and NAL/TAM (tail). They too will be scaling up.

One line will remain dedicated for Tejas Trainers, IMO. There are enough numbers to keep that line busy for few years more.

srai · Post by **srai** » 05 Jan 2024 02:31

It would be great if Hamara Tejas by Dr Anantha Krishnan could cover a segment on how the large subassembly production partners are doing (and the expansion plans for them).

srai · Post by **srai** » 05 Jan 2024 02:39

Speaking about more orders for Tejas Trainers, replace 20 Hawk AJT Surya Kiran with Tejas …

Tejas SPORT (LIFT) needs to be factored in as well

srai · Post by **srai** » 05 Jan 2024 02:47

And export order (in the next few years)? It will require another line …

LakshmanPST · Post by **LakshmanPST** » 09 Jan 2024 23:21

srai wrote: ↑05 Jan 2024 02:19 ^^^
Have to factor in the new 97 order too as well as the fourth line. The orders will overlap with the 83.

Assuming Contract for 97 jets is signed in 2025, we need to add
8 jets each in 2028 and 2029...
24 jets each in 2030, 2031 and 2032...
Balance 9 jets in 2033...

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 11 Jan 2024 04:52

The LCA Tejas Saga: A Flight From Frustration To Fulfillment | In Our Defence

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 11 Jan 2024 21:50

Fighter jet engine deal with India to start this year: GE Aerospace's Amy Gowder
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 676912.cms
10 Jan 2024

srai · Post by **srai** » 12 Jan 2024 06:53

^^^
License produce F-404 as well since there will be a need for some 400 engines total to support 200 LCAs for the next 30 years.

hgupta · Post by **hgupta** » 12 Jan 2024 21:56

srai wrote: ↑12 Jan 2024 06:53 ^^^
License produce F-404 as well since there will be a need for some 400 engines total to support 200 LCAs for the next 30 years.

More important will they teach our Indian techs to maintain and repair the engines and provide repair manuals and spare support?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jan 2024 23:12

So we now have the F 404 engine delivery schedule.
What do we know of the HAL airframe assembly plans?
Three is 2024 and 16/year from 2025 onwards.
3+16+16+16+16+16= 83
Looks like will slip the final delivery for 2024 as HAL CMD is already saying will make up later!
Need to ensure HAL keeps the pace and not slack off using engine latte delivery.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 13 Jan 2024 16:43

So GE is looking to add capacity for F404. Why isn't HAL interested?

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 14 Jan 2024 03:30

perhaps it is busy with HLFT-42

pravula · Post by **pravula** » 14 Jan 2024 03:36

Have Godrej pick it up. They are starting to build Kaveri right?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 14 Jan 2024 10:28

fanne wrote: ↑14 Jan 2024 03:30 perhaps it is busy with HLFT-42

One will not have any effect on the other.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 14 Jan 2024 22:18

Hmm I don't see even 1/100th of enthusiasm to latch on some kind of deal for F404. When F404 will power (if everything goes right, I am having doubts, Let's see what is Ram's wish) some 220 planes (and we have only made some 55 planes including LSPs), we will need at least 400 new engines (including replacement engines). HAL is oblivious to it, being part of some logistics, even overhaul, repair etc. (if not licensing, we know how good F 414 one is going) is not in their consideration. If you say it is Modi ji problem or Rajnath ji or some Mod babu, I doubt it. HAL has the expertise to make a case.It can get with GE (minus the conspiracy theory that they are just stringing us along, they have no desire to give anything meaningful) to manufacture bottleneck items so that more F404 than 20/yr can be made. Should be doable as it is win win for both parties. We give money, land people and GE gives tech for these bottlenecks items (hopefully none of them are in restricted 20%). Have you seen any proposal except hand wringing (or not even that)?

srai · Post by **srai** » 15 Jan 2024 02:48

hgupta wrote: ↑12 Jan 2024 21:56
srai wrote: ↑12 Jan 2024 06:53 ^^^
License produce F-404 as well since there will be a need for some 400 engines total to support 200 LCAs for the next 30 years.
More important will they teach our Indian techs to maintain and repair the engines and provide repair manuals and spare support?

Well there is already an “agreement” for the license production w/ some level of ToT for F-414. These are for future MWF and AMCA Mk.1 platforms.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 15 Jan 2024 04:55

I don't think it's easy to add capacity when the infrastructure to make it doesn't exist. You also have to notify a bunch of govt agencies, get approval between govts etc. The f414 if it meets schedule will be good enough. For now let's just get f404s imported. I think the extra 12-13 we ordered for the first set should provide enough buffer. I don't think we will be delayed due to lack of engine.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 20 Jan 2024 00:23

Please look at this website. I know many famous defence youtubes follows these threads, please do some deeper research and let us know the full story -

It looks like all 120 F404 has already been produced and (hopefully delivered) delivered. It comes directly from GE website. Why 120? 100 for the order for FOC LCA MK1A and other 20 for our LSP/PV). So there is no bottleneck for delivering 24 MK1A per year. This 20 F 404 per ear for 97 new LCA and perhaps export order.

https://www.geaerospace.com/propulsion/military/f404

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 25 Jan 2024 19:42

Update 1: viewtopic.php?p=2610912#p2610912

https://x.com/writetake/status/1742880753506242962?s=20 ---> Update 2

* Tejas Mk1A has undergone four major changes.
* Inflight air-to-air refeuelling, self protection jammer pod integrated for low-frequency radars, envelope expansion and many new weapons including stand-off and precision munitions added.
* Desi systems like Uttam radar, EW suite, INS, Astra BVRM and onboard oxygen systems developed by DRDO are in advanced stages of flight-testing.

Advanced Tech | Gen-Next Tejas

* Efforts are on to make LCA AI-enabled.
* Emphasis on electronic pilot.
* Man-Unmanned teaming
* Next generation avionics and flight control computers with higher data processing bandwidth for AI-enabled network centric warfare (NCW) capabilities.

Other Technologies

* Green eco-friendly anti-corrosion/anodisation coatings.
* Radar absorbent structures.
* Model based engineering design and digital manufacturing technologies introduced.

VIDEO: https://x.com/ANI/status/1750471423070798294?s=20 ---> On progress of LCA program & induction of LCA Mark 1A, IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari says, "From the contract of 83 LCA signed 3 years ago, first of the aircraft will be delivered next month. The new squadron will be equipped with this aircraft in March-April. Our confidence in the platform has grown & we've now moved a case for 97 additional LCA."

bharathp · Post by **bharathp** » 27 Jan 2024 23:39

wait, 97 more is already added now right? so its 83+97 or is it 83+97+97 (a jingo can dream?)

srai · Post by **srai** » 28 Jan 2024 03:43

bharathp wrote: ↑27 Jan 2024 23:39 wait, 97 more is already added now right? so its 83+97 or is it 83+97+97 (a jingo can dream?)

83 Mk1A in production

97 Mk1A - intent only; yet to go through the full procurement cycle (takes at least 2-years)

Future orders likely
* Tejas SPORT
* Tejas export variants
* Tejas Surya Kiran

Future upgrades
* 40 Mk1 mid-life upgrade
* 83 + 97 mid-life upgrade

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 28 Jan 2024 04:20

HAL should themselves add additional planes at the same or somewhat reduced prices in every contract they sign so that price negotiations don't take this long. If there is no change in structure, then it becomes easy.

srai · Post by **srai** » 28 Jan 2024 04:52

^^^
Investment costs additional capacity
Inflation adjustment
Imported parts FEX adjustment
Profit margins adjustment -> increasingly they need to use their own funds to R&D new aircraft and even LSP first batch without any firm commitments from the armed forces

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 28 Jan 2024 05:27

True, but if you look at how the US defence industry adds an extra price for a widget, it may be possible. Either way, bottom line is that our current approval process takes way too long as it is designed currently.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 03 Feb 2024 15:05

Update 1: viewtopic.php?p=2610912#p2610912

Update 2: viewtopic.php?p=2612166#p2612166

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/17 ... rWIEQ&s=19 ---> Update 3

* With the first flight of first production standard LCA Mk1A aircraft is set to take place during this month, here are some updates\reminders that chased me here in Kuttemperoor.

* LCA LSP8 and Tejas SP25 aircraft have already been flying with the avionics updates including new smart multifunction displays (MFDs) and new mission computer as against the MFDs and open architecture computer in LCAMk1s.

* The new Digital Flight Control Computer (DFCC) is based on the PowerPC Microprocessor as against the Intel processor of LCA Mk1, which had exhausted the scope of upgrade and inclusion of any added functionalities.

* The new DFCC will bring revolution in terms of adding new functionalities and indigenisation efforts. Moreover, it can be used for future projects such as LCA AF Mk2.

* The new computer is all set to fly on an LSP aircraft early next week followed by the first flight of Tejas MK1A production aircraft.

* As you already know, Tejas MK1A will have a new mission computer, smart MFDs, AESA Radar, new electronic warfare suite, digital map generator and the new DFCC.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 04 Feb 2024 03:25

Dang, 20 years later to powerpc! I first heard about it in 2005 when working at the group that put an ad out touting the processors for Indian defense needs and had a flying image of LCA.

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 04 Feb 2024 09:23

ashishvikas wrote: ↑03 Feb 2024 15:05 https://twitter.com/writetake/status/17 ... rWIEQ&s=19 ---> Update 3

* The new Digital Flight Control Computer (DFCC) is based on the PowerPC Microprocessor as against the Intel processor of LCA Mk1, which had exhausted the scope of upgrade and inclusion of any added functionalities.

My bet is that this is actually the IBM Power processor built on 7nm fab which is well suited for modern servers and super computers. Someone is trying to obfuscate.