Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

[Prem Kumar]

That tweet is confusing. Why is a Base Repair depot in charge of indigenizing the jammer pod?

Also, I thought DRDO has already developed an ASPJ. I think the reporter has mixed things up

[basant]

That tweet is confusing. Why is a Base Repair depot in charge of indigenizing the jammer pod?

Also, I thought DRDO has already developed an ASPJ. I think the reporter has mixed things up

What is said about BRD is, "IAF’s Base Repair Depots have been tasked to indigenize many of the equipment...". Nothing to do with ASPJ, IMHO.

[Rakesh]

IAF Base Repair Depots are famous for many desi jugaads and equipment. Back in the 90s (if memory serves me right), IAF Base Repair Depots successfully completed in-house overhaul of their MiG-29 fleet. Overhaul is not to be confused with the UPG upgrade, for which the IAF had to go back to the OEM (Mikoyan). But still a laudable achievement.

[ashishvikas]

India Set To Kick Off 3 Mega Defence Projects Worth Rs 1.4 Lakh Crore

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/india- ... 455212.cms

NEW DELHI: India is now set to give preliminary approval to three mega indigenous projects to manufacture another aircraft carrier, 97 more Tejas fighters and 156 Prachand light combat helicopters, which together will be worth around Rs 1.4 lakh crore.

The Rajnath Singh-led defence acquisitions council is likely to take up the “acceptance of necessity (AoN)” -- the first step in the procurement process -- for the three crucial projects at a meeting slated on November 30, sources told TOI on Thursday.

Once the AoNs are accorded, the tendering and commercial negotiations will take place before the three deals are submitted to the cabinet committee on security for the final nod.

The 97 Tejas Mark-1A fighters, at a cost of around Rs 55,000 crore, will add to the 83 such jets already ordered under the Rs 46,898 crore contract inked with Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) in February 2021.

These 180 Tejas jets are critical for IAF to boost the number of its fighter squadrons, which is down to just 31 when at least 42 are required to tackle China and Pakistan. The first 83 Mark-1A jets are slated for delivery in the February 2024-February 2028 timeframe.

[ramana]

I read somewhere that Tejas will carry Brahmos NG and the Tejas structure was strengthened.
Can any one confim that?

[Pratyush]

Let the dimensions and weight of the Brahmos NG become available first.

Only then can it be determined, if it can be carried.

Because - if it's under 1 ton - then the wing wet points have the strength to carry it, without any modifications to the aircraft.

[ashishvikas]

https://twitter.com/manishindiatv/statu ... FZ0xw&s=19 ---> PM Narendra Modi will visit HAL in Bengaluru tomorrow morning. He will review and visit their manufacturing facility, including the facility for Tejas jets. @indiatvnews @DRDO_India @HALHQBLR

[MeshaVishwas]

^^
Superb news.
Insha Ganesha, the momentum keeps building.
Go Team Tejas!

[ashthor]

The order for the 97 will come before the 2024 elections.

[ashishvikas]

Yes, something might be cooking.

[HAL share prices were up ~5% today]

[JTull]

Don't hold your breath. Last time the price negotiations between MoD and HAL took 2 years.

[adarshp]

Let the dimensions and weight of the Brahmos NG become available first.

Only then can it be determined, if it can be carried.

Because - if it's under 1 ton - then the wing wet points have the strength to carry it, without any modifications to the aircraft.

It was initially quoted at 1.3 tons

[adarshp]

Don't hold your breath. Last time the price negotiations between MoD and HAL took 2 years.

Hopefully organisational memory and prior agreements on pricing will allow this effort to be expedited

[ashthor]

PM is visiting HAL today...some announcement might come.

[ashishvikas]

PM @NarendraModi takes a flight in a homegrown Tejas fighter in Bengaluru.

https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/17 ... TSIvA&s=19

[Aditya_V]

Amazing, But this shows how crucial 2024 is.

[ashishvikas]

मैं आज तेजस में उड़ान भरते हुए अत्यंत गर्व के साथ कह सकता हूं कि हमारी मेहनत और लगन के कारण हम आत्मनिर्भरता के क्षेत्र में विश्व में किसी से कम नहीं हैं। भारतीय वायुसेना, DRDO और HAL के साथ ही समस्त भारतवासियों को हार्दिक शुभकामनाएं।

https://twitter.com/narendramodi/status ... Drwgw&s=19

Successfully completed a sortie on the Tejas. The experience was incredibly enriching, significantly bolstering my confidence in our country's indigenous capabilities, and leaving me with a renewed sense of pride and optimism about our national potential.

https://twitter.com/narendramodi/status ... fUGQA&s=19

[ashthor]

Looks like additional Rafale is tied to the additional orders of Tejas MK1A.

[drnayar]

Amazing, But this shows how crucial 2024 is.

Indeed ..and not just for India!

[Rakesh]

AFAIK, this is the first time any Indian Prime Minister has flown in a fighter aircraft of the Indian Air Force. And what makes this even more sweet is that it is an Indian developed fighter. Let that sink in.

2023 WCC loss is a fading memory now

[Rakesh]

Looks like additional Rafale is tied to the additional orders of Tejas MK1A.

Bingo! And thus the order for 97 more.

[SriKumar]

….probably a first for any GOI leader to fly in a single engine aircraft. Not even republic day parades have Tejas flying.

[LakshmanPST]

Full video...

[Rakesh]

Seen multiple Presidents fly in fighter jets, but there is something just different with the Prime Minister doing the same thing.

[Tanaji]

Who was the pilot? That guy must be under so much pressure…

[Rakesh]

Who was the pilot? That guy must be under so much pressure…

Exactly! Everyone must have heaved a sigh of big relief when all three wheels touched the tarmac.

Group Captain Debanjan Mondal was the pilot. Both plane and pilot are from ASTE.

[JTull]

Who was the pilot? That guy must be under so much pressure…

Exactly! Everyone must have heaved a sigh of big relief when all three wheels touched the tarmac.

Group Captain Debanjan Mondal was the pilot. Both plane and pilot are from ASTE.

How does SPT-01 belong to ASTE without yet being delivered by HAL?

[Rakesh]

How does SPT-01 belong to ASTE without yet being delivered by HAL?

Good Question.

https://x.com/writetake/status/1728410335890321734?s=20 ---> 𝘚𝘰𝘮𝘦 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘵𝘴 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘥𝘪𝘦𝘩𝘢𝘳𝘥 𝘢𝘷𝘨𝘦𝘦𝘬𝘴 𝘰𝘯 𝘗𝘔 𝘔𝘰𝘥𝘪'𝘴 𝘛𝘦𝘫𝘢𝘴 𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘵𝘪𝘦 𝘪𝘯 𝘉𝘢𝘯𝘨𝘢𝘭𝘰𝘳𝘦 𝘵𝘰𝘥𝘢𝘺.

First Indian PM to fly on a fighter aircraft sortie.
The sortie was carried out from the Aircraft Systems Testing Establishment (ASTE) of the IAF.
The duration of the sortie was for 30 minutes.
The PM was in all praise for the IAF Test crew at ASTE & their critical role in getting 2 Tejas squadrons up and running.

[SriKumar]

The pilots of 2 Tejas squadrons will be pumped up with this event. Flight must have taken weeks/months to plan out....

[suryag]

A guru told me this when i was new to manufacturing ops and was trying to understand why we were having so many issues and delays, despite protos being reasonably good

Guru uvacha -
Designing a complex vehicle(land or air based) is like your mom/shq cooking for four, they can dish out amazing delicacies and also do that consistently for the four of you with her existing kitchen accessories and groceries from neighborhood kirana store

Imagine same mom/shq transitioning to cooking for 50-100 that same delicacy with added pressure and to maintain consistency and taste and also keep costs down - this is manufacturing stage1

Imagine the same with mom/shq transferring the recipe to another group and they have to achieve the same taste/quality/speed for 50-100 people - this is manufacturing stage 2

It is very heartening to see Tejas getting there, we just need to keep the momentum up with TEDBF, AMCA, MK2

[drnayar]

A guru told me this when i was new to manufacturing ops and was trying to understand why we were having so many issues and delays, despite protos being reasonably good

Guru uvacha -
Designing a complex vehicle(land or air based) is like your mom/shq cooking for four, they can dish out amazing delicacies and also do that consistently for the four of you with her existing kitchen accessories and groceries from neighborhood kirana store

Imagine same mom/shq transitioning to cooking for 50-100 that same delicacy with added pressure and to maintain consistency and taste and also keep costs down - this is manufacturing stage1

Imagine the same with mom/shq transferring the recipe to another group and they have to achieve the same taste/quality/speed for 50-100 people - this is manufacturing stage 2

It is very heartening to see Tejas getting there, we just need to keep the momentum up with TEDBF, AMCA, MK2

Indeed, one can just imagine the quality control s required right from the suppliers to system integration... and would go up a notch as HAL transitions to 5th gen technologies .. also a note to those who think India can jump straight to AMCA without the Tejas 2 and the TEDBF/ORCA !!

[Rakesh]

Originally posted by the BenG in the Su-30MKI: News and Discussion thread....

Rakesh ji, hgupta has a point. You do have a deference to IAF and particularly DRDO without realizing it.

This second opinion is not completely yours. But prominently parroted by most of BRF. It was never accepted that possible orders of more than the 83 mk1a were possible. And someone even mentioned that IAF cannot induct more than 1 squadron a year. With 97 more Tejas mk1a order, this has been disproved. Mk2 orders are going to be reduced to the point of unviability like Arjun mk1. So peddling mk2 as the most important program is unwise.
...
As for more Tejas Mk1A orders by IAF 10 years back, there was no Mk1A 10 years back. There was mk2 with new engine whose design was not even finalized.

[Rakesh]

This second opinion is not completely yours. But prominently parroted by most of BRF. It was never accepted that possible orders of more than the 83 mk1a were possible. And someone even mentioned that IAF cannot induct more than 1 squadron a year. With 97 more Tejas mk1a order, this has been disproved. Mk2 orders are going to be reduced to the point of unviability like Arjun mk1. So peddling mk2 as the most important program is unwise.
....
As for more Tejas Mk1A orders by IAF 10 years back, there was no Mk1A 10 years back. There was Mk2 with new engine whose design was not even finalized.

I responded to a similar set of questions that you raised, albeit in the Tejas Mk1A thread. I am still waiting a response.

Here is the link to that post ---> viewtopic.php?p=2606740#p2606740

I would kindly urge you to reply to that post. But I leave that to you.

[Rakesh]

Originally posted by the BenG in the Su-30MKI: News and Discussion thread....

I responded to a similar set of questions that you raised, albeit in the Tejas Mk1A thread. I am still waiting a response.

Here is the link to that post ---> viewtopic.php?p=2606740#p2606740

I would kindly urge you to reply to that post. But I leave that to you.

Really? You want me to respond to your rant about how India should be a tin-pot dictatorship. Well, the last time India came close to a dictatorship under Indira Gandhi, HF-24 was buried in favor of Mig-21 and Mig-23. Any dictator who rises in India will be left leaning with focus on freebies and job security. India will be turned into a basket case like Argentina soon.

[Rakesh]

Really? You want me to respond to your rant about how India should be a tin-pot dictatorship. Well, the last time India came close to a dictatorship under Indira Gandhi, HF-24 was buried in favor of Mig-21 and Mig-23. Any dictator who rises in India will be left leaning with focus on freebies and job security. India will be turned into a basket case like Argentina soon.

Which part of my post indicates, that I want India to be a tin pot dictatorship? I am surprised that is the message you got from my "rant" I obviously do not want democracy to be suspended, because that is not going to happen. Why wish for unobtanium?

What I am claiming (which I will stand by!) that China is indeed a dictatorship. And thus they have the luxury to do whatever they feel like. There is no public oversight, parliamentary committees or anything else of the sort. Whatever Xi wants, Xi gets.

Comparing ourselves with China is an unfair comparison, because India is a democracy. And that is precisely why everything in India takes its own sweet time. Bureaucratic delays, project overruns, funding challenges are part and parcel of any democracy.

Mk1A delays are to be expected. There is not a single Indian military project - that I know of - that ever arrives on time. So why take takleef? What is that really going to achieve?

[ashishvikas]

#WATCH | On how many Light Combat Aircraft can HAL produce in a year, chairman CB Ananthakrishnan says, "At present, our capacity stands at 16 aircraft. We want to increase the capacity to 24. For this, a third line is being established at Nashik. In total, there will be three independent lines which will each produce 8 aircraft. Starting 2025-26, on average, we will be able to deliver 24 aircraft. We will be able to deliver the order for 83 LCA Tejas Mark 1A aircraft one year ahead of schedule."

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/17290653 ... iiWtQ&s=19

[Jay]

#WATCH | Starting 2025-26, on average, we will be able to deliver 24 aircraft.

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/17290653 ... iiWtQ&s=19

From 2027 onwards, we can pencil in to add a Sqn & half of Tejas variants every year, year on year. With the additional 12 MKI's, Rafales, and MMRCA coming online, it looks like we might be on our way to add about 2SQN worth of planes every year. This in itself will finally start stabilizing the falling SQN strength by the end of this decade. This looks promising.

[basant]

#WATCH | On how many Light Combat Aircraft can HAL produce in a year, chairman CB Ananthakrishnan says, "At present, our capacity stands at 16 aircraft. We want to increase the capacity to 24. For this, a third line is being established at Nashik. In total, there will be three independent lines which will each produce 8 aircraft. Starting 2025-26, on average, we will be able to deliver 24 aircraft. We will be able to deliver the order for 83 LCA Tejas Mark 1A aircraft one year ahead of schedule."

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/17290653 ... iiWtQ&s=19

"For this, a third line is being established at Nashik."
Why does this make me feel jittery? Earlier news? Perhaps.

[Pratyush]

If the numbers of orders placed for the aircraft justify 24 jets per annum. Then would it not be efficient, to have a single line produce 24 jets per annum?

Because, as it is the jets are dependent on subcomponents being produced Pvt sector vendors. Unless they scale up, HAL will not be able scale up production. So having one additional line serves little purpose.

[Kartik]

If the numbers of orders placed for the aircraft justify 24 jets per annum. Then would it not be efficient, to have a single line produce 24 jets per annum?

Because, as it is the jets are dependent on subcomponents being produced Pvt sector vendors. Unless they scale up, HAL will not be able scale up production. So having one additional line serves little purpose.

HAL has assembly lines at Nashik that need to be utilized, along with a large workforce that is now mostly working on Su-30MKI overhaul and repair but is not fully being utilized. With the Su-30MKI upgrade to come up soon, that too will begin at HAL Nashik and the entire workforce will be busy.

HAL Bangalore has limited space and earlier assembly lines (Kiran hangar, Hawk assembly line) were all repurposed to be used as Tejas assembly lines in addition to the one dedicated Tejas assembly line that existed. That is how they got to 8 + 8 in Bangalore.

HAL Nashik's assembly line allows for some level of risk reduction in case something stalls or delays the assembly lines at Bangalore.