Army Logistics and Support Functions

[Dileep]

Folks, returning after a long time with an interesting subject.

Watched a documentary on Discovery "How to go to war". This is about the support logistics for war. It deals with the non glamorous stuff that we enthusiasts ignore while talking about war. The documentary talked about food, transportation, kit etc.

This triggered my 'fiction brain'. I realized that I have no clue how the nitty gritty of a campaign works. Even the stuff that I read also are vague about these things, and just glamourize the fight part. So, I thought I will come back to the Kave Kamplex and ask the maulanas.

Imagine we are pushing into enemy territory, say to GB to open path to AFG. How exactly the nitty gritty detail for the boots on ground be managed:

1. Food
2. Water (drink and clean up)
3. Sleep
4. Toilet (no 1 and 2), and since we are Indians, water to clean up as well.
5. Medical
6. Communication

Any idea?

[ks_sachin]

DIleep saar,

Good to see you back. What a timely topic. I was just discussing CI patrols in NEFA in the 1960s with my old man. While it is not necessarily what you are looking for let me try and get some on info on how LRPs in the jungles of the North East were planned keeping in mind your above points.

[Dileep]

I think the useful reference would be the 1971 push to Dhaka. I have no fauji connection myself, except a couple of colleagues. But those guys never talk. Also, they are pretty young wrto 1971.

[ks_sachin]

I think the useful reference would be the 1971 push to Dhaka. I have no fauji connection myself, except a couple of colleagues. But those guys never talk. Also, they are pretty young wrto 1971.

My old man was attached to 101 comm Zone training the Mukti Bahini.


if specific questions please shoot through.

[Dileep]

Thanks Sachin.

I thought the points are specific enough. But here you go first one. The first call of nature.

What is the methodology followed to create toilets (for No 1 and No 2 and wash / clean-up) when reaching a new location in the campaign? You have fought off the enemy and reasonably secured the place. Your logistics trail can reach you with some effort.

Then?

[ramana]

Indian Army branch that deals with all logistics is
Army Service Corps.
All transport, catering, tentage etc.

[Vayutuvan]

@Dileep welcome back.

[ks_sachin]

Indian Army branch that deals with all logistics is
Army Service Corps.
All transport, catering, tentage etc.

To a certain level of granularity.
After that It dissolves down to operational level.

[SRajesh]

Thanks Sachin.

I thought the points are specific enough. But here you go first one. The first call of nature.

What is the methodology followed to create toilets (for No 1 and No 2 and wash / clean-up) when reaching a new location in the campaign? You have fought off the enemy and reasonably secured the place. Your logistics trail can reach you with some effort.

Then?

Dileepji
Reading Preventive and Social medicine : the preferred choice during those days either Trench Latrines for shorter duration or Pit-hole or Dughole latrines for longer stay.
This was what was taught to the med students. This was to ?? avoid outbreaks of gastroenteritis and contamination of water source
I am not sure what the Army did but I am sure even the Army Medical Corps studied same books and taught same things

[SRajesh]

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=19967f62 ... wZGY&ntb=1
A link US Army Field Hygiene and Sanitation guidelines circa 2015

[Pratyush]

An overview of the US army fuel dilivery system.

[ramana]

Prasar Bharati site

Samanjasya Se Shakti: Army’s first Logistics Seminar stresses on formulating robust policies for future wars

To create a robust and ‘Aatmanirbhar’ logistics ecosystem in the country, Indian Army organised its first ‘Logistics’ seminar to effectively deal with future security challenges and to take the country notch higher.

Based on the theme of ‘Samanjasya Se Shakti’, the seminar witnessed the viewpoints of eminent speakers and subject matter experts on the “Whole of Nation Approach to Logistics”.

During the keynote address at the seminar, Defence Minister Rajnath Singh stressed on the need to continue bolstering the logistics system, and said, “The government is focussing on establishing common logistics nodes in the country, as per the needs of the three services. Through these nodes, the resources of one service will seamlessly be available to the rest.”

The Defence Minister also shed light on a number of policies formulated by the Government of India to integrate logistics in the country and make it self-reliant. These policies include National Logistics Policy, PM Gati Shakti and other initiatives to ensure infrastructure development.

It is noteworthy that PM Gati Shakti National Master Plan is the first step in the direction for enabling integrated infrastructure planning, efficient coordination and monitoring. It aims to reduce time and cost overruns in project execution.

Notably, Prime Minister Narendra Modi during his special address in February this year, stressed on the importance of integrated planning and breaking of silos across various stakeholders including Central Government Ministries, State Governments and Private sector to optimize resource deployment.

Similarly, the vision of the ‘National Logistics Policy’ is to drive economic growth and business competitiveness in India through an integrated, seamless, efficient, reliable, green, sustainable and cost effective logistics network. Presently, the logistics cost in the country is around 13 – 14% of GDP, which needs to be reduced from the current levels. This requires coordinated action between the government and private sector.

The Coming of Technology in Logistics Management

Sharing insights on Information & Communication Technology (ICT) architecture, Defence Minister Rajnath Singh shared that ICT plays a major part in efficient logistics management.

“All the services have developed their ICT architecture. It is our endeavor that there should be interoperability between the three services, so that we can use our resources in the best way,” Defence Minister said.

He also called for civil-military fusion to further strengthen the logistics system and stay prepared to deal with future challenges. He asserted that logistics in future wars will require jointness not only among the three services, but also among different bodies in the form of industrial back-up, research & development, material support, industry and man-power.

The Defence Minister also called for formulating robust policies to enhance commitment & mutual trust between civil and the military, which will provide a renewed thrust to the Government’s vision of protecting the people from future threats.

The landmark Indian Army Logistics seminar witnessed the presence of Chief of the Army Staff General Manoj Pande, Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari, Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral R Hari Kumar and other dignitaries.

India Preparing for Future

After becoming the fifth largest economy, India is fast moving towards becoming a $5 trillion economy. In the future, whether in the battlefield or civilian sector, the criticality of logistics sustenance is going to increase.

To cope up with the situation, reforming the system of logistics according to the needs of the 21st century is the need of the hour. “Self-reliance is an important component in the field of logistics. To achieve our goals, we need an ‘Aatmanirbhar’ logistics supply system,” Defence Minister said while elaborating on the framework laid by the Government to make India a superpower in ‘Amrit Kaal’ by 2047.

Rajnath Singh termed jointness among the three services as one of the major policy changes made in the Ministry of Defence in the last few years, which has benefited a number of sectors across the board, especially logistics.

He said, the foundation has been laid to establish a strong logistics system, which is pivotal for operational preparedness of the Armed Forces as it ensures that right items, with right quality & quantity. Military logistics is an extremely important aspect that determines the outcome of a war, he added.

[Vayutuvan]

The proceedings would be available later or most of the papers will be classified?

[Prasad]

It should be on Army YouTube channel.

[Vayutuvan]

Prasad ji, thanks.

[ks_sachin]

Thanks Sachin.

I thought the points are specific enough. But here you go first one. The first call of nature.

What is the methodology followed to create toilets (for No 1 and No 2 and wash / clean-up) when reaching a new location in the campaign? You have fought off the enemy and reasonably secured the place. Your logistics trail can reach you with some effort.

Then?

Dileep Saar,

Here is one for you.

Fire in the belly....

Once when asked by his Biology teacher, to explain the digestive process, a kid said that it is a process that starts with the right hand & ends with the left. Too simplistic?
For a military man, the day starts with the last of this process, the excretion & that's his first battle of the day.
A clean toilet with a working WC is a dream. We have it in our homes, but in a military barrack, this dream comes true only on the day of an inspection.
There are various types of places where one does this body function, the first of which is a DTL (Deep Trench Latrine). This is normally found in camps & during exercises. As it states, it is supposed to be a 'Deep Trench', with something handy put across, on which one squatts & does this function. Something handy, could range from two comfortable planks taken off ammunition boxes, to something as uncomfortable as two Long Angle Iron Pickets (LAIP). While sitting on LAIPs, one is worried about maintaining body balance, as the body is ejecting mass in unequal proportions.
More often than not, while digging a DTL, the working party is often tempted to ease their pressure, or they get tired & the planned 'Deep Trench', remains a shallow trench. Instead of insisting on making the shallow deep, the authorities decided to add that too, in the military glossary. So now we have DTL & STL (Shallow Trench Latrine).
These two marvels of human imagination, is enclosed in a screen made of 'Screen Latrine Mark I', also known as a 'Kanat', which rises about one & a half feet, above ground level. This gives the squatters a psychological satisfaction, that he is doing what he is doing in privacy, while engaged in a personal chat with the person sitting on the adjoining pair of LAIP, with nothing in between them.
There is a yellow flag put up, to let self respecting officials know, that it is in their personal interest, not to venture anywhere close. And the area is known as Yellow flag area.
After a couple of days of exercise, this area becomes a weapon of 'Biological Warfare' & if someone loses his balance on a pair of LAIPs, he himself becomes a biological warhead. No one ever comes anywhere near him after that.
To avoid this, at times soldiers & officers, decide to break rules & do it in the open, at a reasonable distance, away from the camp. The officer doing so, tells the Subedar Adjutant, to declare his intended area of operation, as out of bounds for other ranks. There are occasions, when a soldier not aware of this order, passes an officer on his haunches, performing his first battle of the day & yells, "Ram Ram Saab". It ends up into tragic consequences for the poor soldier.
A shallower than shallow trench, is found in an officer's toilet, which is a small tent behind his big tent. A small pit is dug & the dug out earth & a shovel, are kept near it. After one discharges, with the shovel he keeps covering it with the excavated earth & once it comes at level with the ground, a fresh pit is dug.
In high altitude posts, there are innumerable works of art for this bodily function, which is a subject of research by itself. To name just one, we had a cave, in one of our posts on the LoC, into which one entered on all fours, with feet first & the rest of the body, parallel to ground, face upwards. Inside, as one straightened out, he found himself on top of a hole, which did not have a bottom. It extended downward into the innards of hell. After the task, one came out on all fours, but head first, this time. I know, you will never get this, till you do it yourself a couple of times.
Over a period of time, one gets used to all this & more, but this did not prepare us, for what was in store for us in the Horn of Africa.
As we landed in Mogadishu, on a UN mission, we were amazed to find a lot of white telephone booths all over the place. We then learnt that these were not for us to communicate, but were portable loos known as Porta Potties. After the morning rituals, a truck with a vacuum sucker went around collecting the human waste which was then dumped in some remote wilderness. These trucks were fondly called Honey wagons.
Since the honey wagons needed a road to move in those deserts, the Porta Potties were kept very close to the roads.
Once a honey wagon, unable to take a turn the way the driver intended, hit one of the Porta Potties in which a soldier was at his task. The accident discharged the soldier out of the booth alongwith his discharge & he remained a Biological warhead, for the rest of his tenure in Somalia.
Once we moved out of Mogadishu, it was the end of Porta Potties. In our next location, we had wooden cubicles with wooden seats & a cut barrel, kept beneath the hole on the seat. Disposal was by burning the contents of the barrel every afternoon. For this to happen, water was to be avoided at all costs. With great difficulty & hesitation, we switched from water to paper, to close curtains to the digestive process. The absence of water & the equatorial heat, made these wooden cabins, tinder dry. Once having done the needful, I stubbed the cigarette I was smoking & left the stage. I did not even reach my tent, when I heard a human mass, shouting, "fire, fire" & I saw them running towards the place I had just left. Looking back, to my horror, I found the whole cabin in flames. It took some time for the fire to be put out. I don't know whether my sparks got the paper,l or the wood to start the fire.
My flight commander still thinks that my input for lunch was something real fiery; the output of which, burnt down the thunderbox.
A fiery end to a simple process that I started with my right hand - smoking!

[Anoop]

Interesting discussion on the need for distributed and local energy sourcing and management.

[la.khan]

Indian Army branch that deals with all logistics is
Army Service Corps.
All transport, catering, tentage etc.

I thought logistics of Indian military was handled by Army Ordnance Corps (AOC), Secunderabad. No?

[ks_sachin]

Indian Army branch that deals with all logistics is
Army Service Corps.
All transport, catering, tentage etc.

I thought logistics of Indian military was handled by Army Ordnance Corps (AOC), Secunderabad. No?

ASC - fuel food vehicles etc
AOC - munitions, vehicles, clothing etc

[rohitvats]

<SNIP> Imagine we are pushing into enemy territory, say to GB to open path to AFG. How exactly the nitty gritty detail for the boots on ground be managed:

1. Food
2. Water (drink and clean up)
3. Sleep
4. Toilet (no 1 and 2), and since we are Indians, water to clean up as well.
5. Medical
6. Communication

Any idea?

First and foremost, my pranaam to you!

Coming to question - Indian Army formations at Division level have organic support elements to address all the points raised you. Consider the following organization structure:

- Infantry Division
- Main fighting elements - 3 x Infantry Brigades (each with 3 x infantry battalions; could be more as well)
- Main fire support arm - 1 x Artillery Brigade (4-5 x artillery regiment; during hostilities, the Division Commander can allot all guns to a particular brigade or at minimum, each brigade will have 1 x Artillery Regiment supporting it).

- Other Support Arms:

- Medical (Army Medical Corps) - Each Division has 2 x Field Ambulance Units. These guys are right there in the front and are the first ones to handle casualties. They set-up Advance Dressing Sections (ADS) and can even set-up Field Hospitals with operation theater (a bit in depth). From here, the patients are send to larger hospitals in the hinterland.

- Army Service Corps (ASC) - They provide food, rations, POL (Petroleum, Oil, Lubricants) and TRANSPORTATION. Each Division has 1 x ASC Unit. They transport troops over long distances. The tanks that you see being transported over a trailer, pulled by a TATRA generally belongs to the Tank Transport Unit of the formation and belongs to ASC.

- Army Ordnance Corps (AOC) - Each division has Division Ordnance Unit which looks after everything apart from what ASC does. From bullets to guns to bombs to shoes to clothing. Everything.

- Electrical & Mechanical Engineers (EME) - 1 x EME Unit per Division. They have workshops to look after every equipment operated by their parent division. From vehicles to tanks to infantry fighting vehicles to NVGs to AD guns, helicopters, missiles etc. They also operate a fleet of very powerful cranes to tow breakdown vehicles or retrieve stuck tanks etc. They can remove and swap a tank engine right in the middle of the battlefield.

- Signals - 1 x Division Signal Regiment. Communication within the Division, to formation higher and lower in chain of command, and SIGINT and Electronic Warfare.

- Engineering Regiment - These have equipment to provide engineering support depending on the terrain and task of their parent division. For example, assault engineers which work closely with mechanized formations, have bridge laying tanks etc.

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- The whole set-up is organized in a manner where it can be apportioned between the 3 x Infantry Brigades, Artillery Brigade and the Division HQ.

- For example, the Division Signal Unit will have multiple Signal Companies. Companies will be earmarked to provide communication support to one brigade each.

---------

When we talk of Integrated Battle Group (IBG), broadly, what we mean is that rather than hold some resources centrally at Division HQ level and then apportion them to underlying formations during crisis, lets allocate them in advance and make them part of the brigades.

Ergo, you're an IBG or Combined Arms Brigade with infantry, armor or mechanized infantry battalions, signal company, engineering company, ordnance company, EME Workshop, AD Battery (if available), 1 x Artillery Regiment etc.

[Sachin]

- Signals - 1 x Division Signal Regiment. Communication within the Division, to formation higher and lower in chain of command, and SIGINT and Electronic Warfare.

My understanding is that the regiment level communication is handled by few 'Signals' trained soldiers from that regiment itself (that is Regiment HQ, to Company HQ & Platoons). It seems there are few courses for Infantry Officers at the Signals Centre to impart basic training like setting frequencies, channels etc.

The 'backward' communication from Regiment HQ towards Brigade, Divn, Corps etc are managed by the Signal Companies and Regiments. I could be wrong though.