Hamas attack.on Israel. Oct 2023

[AkshaySG]

Israel will do what it thinks is best but that will not take away from the fact that this scorched earth approach will lead to a lot more radicalization within Palestinians and arabs and help Hamas/Iranian recruitment for the next several decades

Not to mention it will weaken its standing with the Americans who have usually been mostly pro Israel for the last 75 years.

During the mid 90s and and even a few moments in the 00s it seemed a two state approach could have been viable but that has been blown to bits first by Oct 7 and then by what's happneded since.

[nachiket]

The top Hamas leaders are sitting safe in Qatar and their funding also comes from Qatar and other Arab countries. Even if the Israelis can find and kill every single Hamas commander and footsoldier in Gaza, which is likely impossible (some may have escaped and others disappeared into the civilian population), they will eventually reform anyway. There will be no lack of new recruits after the devastation in Gaza which will be used for propaganda and recruiting purposes. Every young man and boy left homeless, jobless and having seen loved ones die will make a beeline for any Hamas recruiting center as soon as the Israeli troops leave. Constant propaganda means that they don't even believe that Hamas massacred Israeli civilians and started this war or they don't care because Yehudis are kaffirs anyway. Disastrous situation which is not going to resolve anytime soon.

[vera_k]

Israel is losing the PR war and not getting its message across.

One of the more insidious fake news making its way on the young adult campus grapevine is that Israel could rescue the hostages if they wanted to. Except that they much rather prefer killing more civilians.

[AkshaySG]

A couple of days ago news came out that World Central Kitchen workers died in a recent strike by Israel.
This is a very popular aid org and Chef Jose Andreas who started it runs in the liberal circles of Clinton/Obama and is extremely popular among the standard college educated white demograhpic.

The reason i point this out specifically is that Israel is losing its perception even among these folks , It is no longer only the "far-left" or Muslim-americans or the college age hippies that are coming out in force against the war but middle of the road white Americans. This will inevitably lead to decrease in military support which is so critical to Isreal

How does that matter to India ? Well if the US falters in its aid then Israel may look to Europe and India for more direct military aid and we would have to decide how to respond. We would also need to decide how firm we are on advocating for a two state solution as any hope for that blows up with every passing week.

[Tanaji]

I humbly put it that we are in position to give military aid to anyone. We are in dire straits ourselves. If anything the Ukraine and Hamas war has taught us is that the ammunition and other expenditures are on such a scale that we are off on our war reserves by a minimum of 3-5x if not more. Our generals should be asking for more storage, more shells, more gun barrels .., we have none to spare.

[sanman]

A couple of days ago news came out that World Central Kitchen workers died in a recent strike by Israel.
This is a very popular aid org and Chef Jose Andreas who started it runs in the liberal circles of Clinton/Obama and is extremely popular among the standard college educated white demograhpic.

The reason i point this out specifically is that Israel is losing its perception even among these folks , It is no longer only the "far-left" or Muslim-americans or the college age hippies that are coming out in force against the war but middle of the road white Americans. This will inevitably lead to decrease in military support which is so critical to Isreal

How does that matter to India ? Well if the US falters in its aid then Israel may look to Europe and India for more direct military aid and we would have to decide how to respond. We would also need to decide how firm we are on advocating for a two state solution as any hope for that blows up with every passing week.

After this strike which killed the 7 food workers, Israeli govt's response was that it knew it was hitting the aid convoy, but felt it had to do so, because the convoy visited a food warehouse which had an armed guard - and armed guard might have been Hamas. But the convoy was hit much after it left that warehouse. I'm stunned that they could sacrifice the lives of the international aid workers to kill that one guy? They repeatedly hit the convoy - after they hit the first car, the survivors then piled into the 2nd car. Then the Israelis later hit the 2nd car, and those survivors then piled into the 3rd car. The Israelis then hit the 3rd car, and finished them off. So we're talking about 3 different missile strikes here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCZx1oRLWuI

I think the Israeli explanation basically amounts to issuing threats with a smile, telling the international aid community "stay away, or we'll kill you next"

I think Netanyahu wants to go all-out to finish off the Palestinians completely, while Israeli public opinion will still allow it.

[Aditya_V]

Europe wants to send Aid and Aid workers to keep Gazans in Gaza while Israel/ USA these guys to emigrate and enrich the societies in Europe, simple.

[Cyrano]

Oct 7th remains a dastardly terrorist act. But Israel's response in the past few of months make it clear that this has to stop. You cannot imagine any peace solution this way.

Recent statements by Dr SJ do indeed indicate that we are no longer fully behind Israel in the way they are prosecuting this war. I'm trying to find a reference, it was in response to a question during his visit to Malaysia I think, the shift in our position was clear.

[sanman]

Biden warning Israel to change its policy or else US may change its policy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-ThEwPgKHY

[sanman]

Oct 7th remains a dastardly terrorist act. But Israel's response in the past few of months make it clear that this has to stop. You cannot imagine any peace solution this way.

Recent statements by Dr SJ do indeed indicate that we are no longer fully behind Israel in the way they are prosecuting this war. I'm trying to find a reference, it was in response to a question during his visit to Malaysia I think, the shift in our position was clear.

Israel automating their killing with AI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=799UJDl5qEE

[Pratyush]

Snip...

Recent statements by Dr SJ do indeed indicate that we are no longer fully behind Israel in the way they are prosecuting this war. I'm trying to find a reference, it was in response to a question during his visit to Malaysia I think, the shift in our position was clear.

India has always supported a two state solution. Nothing has changed in our position.

The war between Israel and Hamas is not our business and we are well served by not identifying too much with either side. If the Israelis need weapons that we can supply. Sell them and provide aid shipments to Gaza.