Hamas attack.on Israel. Oct 2023

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 07 Oct 2023 12:25

Huge terrorist attacks in Israel, state of war declared.

Palestinians fired rockets, and several dozens of killers with automatic weapons roaming in pickup trucks killing Israelis on sight, shouting Alla Hoo akbar.

An Israeli soldier captured, killed and terrorists kicking and dancing on his body.

Horrible visuals. Looks like someone is not at all happy with the recent Israel Saudi rapprochement.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 07 Oct 2023 13:15

Co ordinated Infil via sea and air (motorised gliders) as well.

Expect severe overt and covert retaliation by the Israelis now

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 07 Oct 2023 14:31

Looks like a massive intelligence failure. They have or plan to fire thousands of rockets. These are being fired from all directions. There are reports of sea borne assaults as well and videos of para gliders being used. The Hamas terrorists are landing and firing indiscriminately.

BBC has a love affair with the Hamas. Lets see if they denounce this indiscriminate killing. Meanwhile Netanyahu has declared a state of war. I wonder if his government will last after all this is over. Maybe that’s the point of this operation as well…

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 07 Oct 2023 14:32

Cyrano wrote: ↑07 Oct 2023 12:25 Huge terrorist attacks in Israel, state of war declared.

Palestinians fired rockets, and several dozens of killers with automatic weapons roaming in pickup trucks killing Israelis on sight, shouting Alla Hoo akbar.

An Israeli soldier captured, killed and terrorists kicking and dancing on his body.

Horrible visuals. Looks like someone is not at all happy with the recent Israel Saudi rapprochement.

Follow the money. Saudi sends large amounts of money in support of the Palestinians. Now if that dries up ?

I won't be surprised if some Israelis are involved as well !

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 07 Oct 2023 14:35

Israeli army says dozens of Palestinian militants infiltrate Israel from Gaza by land, sea and air ■ Some 2,500 rockets fired from the Strip ■ Over 200 Israelis reportedly wounded ■ Army strikes Hamas targets in Gaza ■ Terrorists hold Israeli civilians hostage in their homes

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/20 ... ff50f0000

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Oct 2023 14:39

My opinion this action is push the war in Ukraine out of the headlines and wind it down. War in Ukraine took the focus a2ay from Corona virus and Mrna vaccine impact scrutiny. There ar0e soo many wheels within wheels.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 07 Oct 2023 14:42

These kinds of attacks will keep happening as the posture of Israel is defense. Defense with their Iron dome and what not. When Israel is defending there is nothing the opposition is losing. Israelis are living on borrowed time. If Palestine did not vanish, atleast it must get reduced by half after each attack. Land must shrink. Same applies in our case as well. As long as we let enemy go without loss of land, it amounts to them able to survive as long as they want.

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 07 Oct 2023 17:01

I wonder whether Palestinians and Hamas are turning into the West Asian version of Pakistan
Like Napak slowly the oil rich gulf countries are moving away from them and becoming more pragmatic
Egypt and the Maghreb have their issues and won’t lend much support
That leaves only Turd and Wahad Atami mulk to make all the noise (with some background support from Qatar and Al Hijra TV)
Wonder if Israelis will finish the Gaza nonsense forever this time

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 07 Oct 2023 17:22

Whoever is behind this latest clash.

The new corridor is done. Unless we can get the US onboard with routing the corridor through Syria.

Turkey is not going to be an acceptable partner for the Arabs.

Israel and Middle East peace is over.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 07 Oct 2023 17:54

One of the intentions is to kill IMEC but doubt its success. This is more akin to recent pak sponsored jihadi attacks in anantnag to kill peace in the valley but these are just dying breaths of their security establishment. The peace and development vision is grand and has many huge gulf backers like uae and Saudi.

One of the things that I find fascinating is the use of drones and social media for psychological ops. They took out a Merkava tank using a drone released crude top attack munition and took both military and civilian hostages. This was a big intelligence failure.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 07 Oct 2023 18:06

Pratysushji , beyond perfunctory noises both UAE and Saudis will sit this one out. Our Atami taakat will talk a lot but being bhikaris to the core have no real influence to do anything.

Which leaves Iran and Qatar.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 07 Oct 2023 18:15

Tanaji wrote: ↑07 Oct 2023 18:06 Pratysushji , beyond perfunctory noises both UAE and Saudis will sit this one out. Our Atami taakat will talk a lot but being bhikaris to the core have no real influence to do anything.

Which leaves Iran and Qatar.

Behind them is China. IMEC pissed them off.

Also take a look at this - hang glider jihadis

https://x.com/Aldanmarki/status/1710565 ... 13116?s=20

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 07 Oct 2023 18:50

Glad to see PM Modi unequivocally call it out as a terrorist attack & express solidarity with Israel.

In the past, we have dilly-dallied because of 150 Million jihadis in our midst.

Massive intel & across-the-board failure in Israel. Loss of face for Mossad. Hamas has 50+ hostages at the least. This is going to be a long drawn affair, like the 26/11 attacks

We need to give heartfelt thanks to IB & RAW for preventing terror attacks in our country over the past decade. Unlike Gaza, our terrorists live amongst us.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 07 Oct 2023 19:09

Prem Kumar wrote: ↑07 Oct 2023 18:50 Glad to see PM Modi unequivocally call it out as a terrorist attack & express solidarity with Israel.

In the past, we have dilly-dallied because of 150 Million jihadis in our midst.

Massive intel & across-the-board failure in Israel. Loss of face for Mossad. Hamas has 50+ hostages at the least. This is going to be a long drawn affair, like the 26/11 attacks

We need to give heartfelt thanks to IB & RAW for preventing terror attacks in our country over the past decade. Unlike Gaza, our terrorists live amongst us.

Prem Kumar ji,

yes indeed, all prescriptions of neutrality have been shunned by India

domestic appeasement is no longer the driver for India because the geopolitics of the region have changed, and one, perhaps, sees a pointed message in all this, for qatar, especially after the bullying over the Nupur Sharma episode

“Deeply shocked by news of terrorist attacks in #Israel. Our thoughts & prayers are with innocent victims & their families. We stand in solidarity with Israel at this difficult hour": says PM

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 07 Oct 2023 19:15

And we hopefully have learnt our lesson from 26/11 and are more vigilant
Any similar attacks on western border may be difficult but via Nepal or BD land is a potential noo

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 07 Oct 2023 19:46

https://twitter.com/RealScottRitter/sta ... 9053053001
Scott Ritter @RealScottRitter
Hamas has reportedly captured Brigadier General Nimrod Aloni. Aloni stepped aside as the commanding officer of the Gaza Division in August 2022. He currently is the commander of the “Depth Corps”, a strategic force whose mission is to use Israeli special forces to operate in the depth of an enemy. It seems Hamas has turned the table on Israel, and is now operating in Israel’s strategic depth. This operation is extraordinarily well planned and executed. Any notion that Israel will be able to contain this attack soon is misplaced. Israel did not anticipate anything of this scope and scale. It is a massive intelligence failure for Israel, and an equally impressive operational success for Hamas.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 07 Oct 2023 21:23

Yagnasri wrote: ↑07 Oct 2023 21:13 May be a conflict study threat only discussing conflicts with tactics etc. Nothing more.

This was tried before but it didn't generate traffic.The reaction is muted compared to 90's and 2000s. This was designed to kill the escalation especially with the high profile captures. Israel will hit back here and there to eliminate the remaining fidayeen and maybe some camps and underground storage. POWs probably at least 100.

There is more to lose for Israel including IMEC. Maybe delay few months depending on the arab moves. But overall the peace and development is more imp.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Oct 2023 21:27

I think this issue deserves its own topic.
Will x-post from West Asia thread.

sajaym · Post by **sajaym** » 07 Oct 2023 21:34

That great Santa Claus of our armed forces - Israel, has been hit and brought to their knees. The Israelis, who are the manufacturers of the greatest air defences ...have been humiliated by a rag tag terrorist outfit. Warfare has gone assymetric for quite a while now, and it is really sad to see that the major militaries & MICs have not seen the change. If a major manufacturer and exporter of thousands of missile systems can be defeated like this, wonder what will be the fate of our armed forces who order laughable quantities of imported air defence systems and perennially delay the induction of home grown systems. 5000 rockets were fired into Israel......i wonder whether our armed forces have even above a thousand air defence missiles at any time. This attack by Hamas is a case study for Pakistan against us in Kashmir and for China against us in Arunachal. If our armed forces think that 5 S400 systems and a few regiments of Akash can protect us, they are clearly smoking some high quality stuff.

PS: a big THOO to the Israelis!

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 07 Oct 2023 21:39

No one ever said S400-type defence can not be overwhelmed by 1000s of missiles all launched at once. Plus, the entire Jewish nation was caught unprepared. So there are massive hits on them. Let us see how things go.

I am sure we will learn from all this.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 07 Oct 2023 21:52

The PM making the statement is as unequivocal as it gets.

There is a limit to what we can do right now.

Israel is a citizens army.

Beyond the surprise, i will be surprised if this continues beyond a week within Israel's boundary.

After that, it's going in Gaza.

Unless the northern front is activated. This is not going to end well for Hamas.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 07 Oct 2023 22:07

Sanjay,

Why bring India into the discussion?

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 07 Oct 2023 22:12

Wrong to diss any force that have heavy civilian hand controlling unless of course you have a deep state which is not answerable to anyone
The modern guerrilla warfare is evolving rapidly with easy availability of drones and delivery systems
Plus ideology driven suicidal attacks (nothing new remember Kamikaze pilots) need just to succeed in as low as 1-20 to create necessary social media impact
This is just that to create an impact and bring Palestine back into world politics

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 07 Oct 2023 22:14

If there’s added benefits to Chin Deep State BRI etc so be it

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 07 Oct 2023 22:15

That’s probably the thinking behind this attack

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 07 Oct 2023 22:17

Both Nazi Germany and Japan during WII were masters at such media stuff to whip up jingoistic fervour

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 07 Oct 2023 22:24

Follow the money

I bet there are some elements in Hamas [ and even in Israel] who does not like the rapport between Israel and Saudi Arabia.

Conflict serves a lot of interested parties and they know where to punch.

How did Israel not have evidence of such an organised and massive attack unless some very specific intelligence input was covered up and not acted on ?!!

Raises questions as to how the Israeli humint ,Sig int and its vaunted electronic surveillance systems and satellites all failed at same time ?

Why did the Iron dome system not become active at the very launch of the rockets ?!

A spectacular failure of all systems at the same time ? incredible. Cannot happen without some elements in Israel itself getting involved.

For India this is indeed a lesson we need to understand.

Najunamar · Post by **Najunamar** » 07 Oct 2023 22:25

This “hostage taking” - is it the objective? At present not much in the news in the Hamas objectives behind the attack. Also, the damage from rockets is quite extensive- did not the iron dome do its job? Or was it a case of the defense system being overwhelmed by the 2200+ rockets? Again use of “hang glider” suicide attacks new and need to watch out for other jihadi elements closer home to Bharat taking lessons.

Suresh S · Post by **Suresh S** » 07 Oct 2023 22:53

To block communication equipment on the border between Gaza and Israel before hamas commandos entered Israel and kidnapping of Brigadier Nimrod Aloni all this requires very sophisticated equipment and intelligence. Only Russian federation have that, not even Iran could do it. Rest I leave it to your imagination.

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 07 Oct 2023 22:54

warning : disturbing images from the "peaceful"s ..absolutely shocking and inhuman

https://twitter.com/Marechtare_/status/ ... 8049221816

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 07 Oct 2023 22:56

Suresh S wrote: ↑07 Oct 2023 22:53 To block communication equipment on the border between Gaza and Israel before hamas commandos entered Israel and kidnapping of Brigadier Nimrod Aloni all this requires very sophisticated equipment and intelligence. Only Russian federation have that, not even Iran could do it. Rest I leave it to your imagination.

i seriously doubt Russia would have any involvement., they have their cup full in Ukraine !..

the american deep state and their company would have more motives and capability to do this

Not to mention TURKEY !!

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 07 Oct 2023 23:13

Why the MASSIVE attack on Israel? Why now?

1. Saudi Arabia's greatest threat is Iran.
2. Iran is on the brink of having nuclear weapons for mass destruction.
3. Saudis want their own bomb to counter Iran.
4. They can’t build one without the US approval.
5. US will only approve it if they make peace with Israel and start being more cooperative with oil prices via OPEC.
6. Saudis have NO issues with Israel except the virtue signalling, so the a peace deal totally makes sense.
7. A peace deal with Saudi and Israel is almost done.
8. If there is a Israeli Saudi peace deal Palestinians and Iran will be big losers.
9. Palestinians with the encouragement and support of Iran, start a massive attack on Israel.
10. The purpose is to provoke a harsh response from Israel.
11. Once Israel responds and death toll on Palestinian side goes through the roof the media will scream “genocide” and...
12. That's how you derail a peace deal between Israel and Saudi.

To the world watching: If you remain silent when half of Israel comes under massive rocket bombardment from Gaza, then shut the hell up when Israel inevitably defends herself and her citizens.

What to expect: Massive attack on Israel which the media won't cover. Media will cover only Israelis killing terrorists. Don't be fooled. Now you've been informed.

Larry Walker · Post by **Larry Walker** » 07 Oct 2023 23:39

Israel can turn tables by attacking Iran which then turns it into Shia vs Sunni and forces Russia to declare sides for US to jump into it and finish Iran once for all.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 07 Oct 2023 23:51

Sajay, your points on Indian procurement are OK and logical. But why the big thoo at Israel. India stands by Israel as evident from PMs statement. It's a black day for them and they've supported us in all recent conflicts.

We are headed for global conflict. No way would Hamas do this without support and planning from Iran. So we will have Israel vs Iran in Middle East. The US vs China in SCS, and we might face a hot border with Pak China too. In all this while, we are still penny pinching and not investing in defence. Proposals galore but very little movement on big ticket platforms. Sort of makes you wonder at how complacent we have become. The PLAAF alone now absolutely dwarfs the IAF. Getting them into theater is just a matter of infra and PRC strategic focus. PMO needs to wake up and push the button on defence expenditure. Even ready domestic systems are awaiting orders. And all these suppliers are getting caught up in their own conflicts. We need to wake up.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 07 Oct 2023 23:57

We may marvel at the ingenuity, inventiveness and developments of Israel but the fact of the matter is that the country has zero chance of survival without US aid. Its high standard of living and seat at the elite table is underwritten by vast amount of money transfers - government and private - from the US and from allied countries.

Fighting this offensive is going to be expensive for Israel. They are a fractured society even within the Jews - with a large section of non-productive ultra orthodox citizens who believe the state should pay them to "study" the scriptures which places further strain on their finances. Follow the money to see how this will end. Watch out for more spending bills in the US congress and more pushback because it's no longer free to print the dollar.

This invasion comes at a very inconvenient time for the western civilization, caught between Ukraine, an imminent if not full blown recession and a demographic collapse.

Larry Walker · Post by **Larry Walker** » 08 Oct 2023 00:11

Till the day civilized world follows some basic morals and principles and shows restraint in killing these demons we the regular citizens will always feel anguished for being humbled and humiliated. All it takes for Israel to attack few victory processions and enemy captured parades from air and this will turn the score 100:1 killed. But the civilized world will not do that and it will be our bane to carry.

Najunamar · Post by **Najunamar** » 08 Oct 2023 00:38

We’ve seen how the pigs to the west of Bharat try to ape their Arab birathars - how could we prevent similar tactics/ counter of similar hostage situations arose? If they can amass 2500 odd rockets as well as plan a sophisticated operation like this, points to failure of intel at epic proportions. Even if there’s no humint the amassing of such high volumes of weaponry should have been visible from aerial and/or satellite reconnaissance.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 08 Oct 2023 01:25

French channels reporting over 200-250 dead and countless more injured so far. Several dozens taken hostage.

Apparently Benjamin Netanyahu's elder brother was killed ? TbC.

Doesn't look like the west will just ignore this attack. If the "jewish lobby" is even a 10th as powerful as the ismalic world make it out to be, there will be pay back.

Rocket attacks that started at 6:30AM and may be spectacular but they are IMO designed to create panic and distraction while infiltrators can enter Gaza and kill already panic strikes people on the streets, in their cars, on bikes, on foot. Soldiers and civilians taken hostage to kill/use for ransom. This was obviously well planned and achieved total surprise.

Very perplexing that Israel did not detect the amassing of rockets, preparations since months with its humint and elint. 5eyes were busy saving Turdeau's ass and slept on the key board? Even the IronDome did not activate as expected.

Israel has started bombing suspected terrorist locations in Gaza, Israelis asked to evacuate Gaza and others wherever in the world asked to come back to defend the land.

Its too early to say what or who is being this. India's response was the right one, this is a terrorist operation - no justification to kill civilians and trample on dead soldiers.

Najunamar · Post by **Najunamar** » 08 Oct 2023 01:27

Brasíl has convened a special UN Security Council meeting to discuss this war. Definitely shows signs of escalation, more to come.

sudham · Post by **sudham** » 08 Oct 2023 01:52

As far as intelligence failures go, this is worse than 9/11. For Hamas to pull off such a complex operation with the scale, demonstrates an impressive level of capability or someone let it happen. However, Hamas have lost the media war in the non-islamic world. None of the western world might intervene diplomatically when Israel responds.
But I do not much confidence that Israel will execute it's response effectively. We have grown up on a diet of Israeli invincibility, but their last outing in Lebanan was not so great. There are multiple fronts opening up... Reading reports that Arabs in Northern Israel are now rioting.
So they will be stretched on multiple fronts. And they will be under pressure to demonstrate a meaningful response immediately. Below post is an example of the reason for my doubts

Post says 4 Israeli Helicopters shot down. If correct, that shows a lot of competence and arms available with the Hamas.And if they have launched an operation of this scale, they would have expected a robust Israeli response, so zi zm sure they are prepared.

https://twitter.com/IacGaurav/status/17 ... go21A&s=19