10/7 vs 9/11 (Israel-Gaza) Strategic Fallout & Implications

[sanman]

US politicians gather to demand a halt of arms transfers to Israel

(who would've thought this could happen?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsJPasi79oA

[sanman]

Iran preparing missile & drone swarm attack on Israel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-E33pi-HMY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpWuHx3D07Q

I think this will seriously escalate war in the Middle East

India will feel shockwaves from this, as will be required to abide by resulting sanctions, and furthermore Iran's proxies will further target shipping around the area.

[sanman]

A good Indian analysis of Israel-Iran conflict dynamics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMirz45mESU

[drnayar]

US politicians gather to demand a halt of arms transfers to Israel

(who would've thought this could happen?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsJPasi79oA

the Israelis bombed the UN aid convoy .. wonder why they did it ..the aid was weapons maybe ?

[sanman]

IDF Ends Active Ground Invasion, Completely Withdraws from Southern Gaza

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-795724

All it took was some backbone from Whitehouse and Capitol Hill -- and Israel has now folded like a house of cards.

The mounting protests inside Israel were also probably making an impact on Netanyahu.

[IndraD]

from same portal, got this
Gallant: IDF withdrawal from Khan Yunis in preparation for Rafah operation
https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-795818

[williams]

from same portal, got this
Gallant: IDF withdrawal from Khan Yunis in preparation for Rafah operation
https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-795818

Yeah those guys are decisive, no pressure could halt what they are doing. They have enough lobby in the US to thwart any major change in policy even though Biden admin will make some noise to appease the middle east vote bank in Michigan and other constituencies.

You are talking about a tiny nation of 10 million people who got terrorized with a massive attack. Their survival instinct will kick in. They are responding the same way the Jihadis fight. Jihadis have utter disregard for civilians - women and children and basic human rights. At that time the same middle eastern people celebrated, now they are protesting.

[Tanaji]

After South Africa filling a case against Israel , it is Nicaraguas turn to file a case against Germany accusing it of helping genocide by Israel by arms sales

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68759146

Wonder how Nicaragua plays into this…

[skaranam]

A good Indian analysis of Israel-Iran conflict dynamics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMirz45mESU

No mention of the bombing of the Chinese embassy by the US in Yugoslavia and the Kosovo War.

[sanjaykumar]

German are selling arms to Israel? But… but I thought they had a code of conduct for profiting from death….

[Tanaji]

German are selling arms to Israel? But… but I thought they had a code of conduct for profiting from death….

Only for turd world countries sire, not for TFTA ones that go on bringing freedom to the same ones. Plus there is a matter of being seen to atone for transgressions past…

[sanman]

Douglas MacGregor on whether WW3 is approaching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DSSSuhF64s

If war in Middle East spreads to Iran, then what will we all do if Iran closes down the Straits of Hormuz?
Does Indian govt have any plans?

Could Israelis use tactical nukes against Hezbollah?

[sanman]

Is Israel Planning to Target Iranian Nuclear Facilities?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryU6QIkSc3o

Netanyhau might have a double incentive to do this: firstly by provoking Iran seriously enough, they can drag it into a wider war, and then the USA as well. Nextly, they get the bonus of destroying Iran's capacity to make nuclear weapons.

But could Israelis pull off this audacious move? Or could others intervene to thwart them?

[sanman]

Google workers protesting against Google's technical partnerships with Israel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TuoyLT5QYQ

[rahulm]

^^ Lets not be surprised if this is deployed against India as another tool kit item based on those democracy and freedom rankings,

[vera_k]

^^ Well, wouldn't that be good for India? More jobs for Indians whether in or out of India

[Tanaji]

I have never quite managed to get the concept of politicising the workplace. You are free to have your beliefs but why bring it to work and why does the employer tolerate it?

[sanman]

Spain and Norway to Recognize Palestinian State:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brQANt58ZK0

[Haresh]

Google workers protesting against Google's technical partnerships with Israel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TuoyLT5QYQ

Who are they supposed to have technical partnerships with, somalia, pakistan, egypt, morrocco other peaceful wastelands ??

[sanman]

Iran v Israel: USA's Arab Military Allies Refuse To Let Biden Use Their Bases To Hit Tehran

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXOjTzK84aU

[bharathp]

cant help but wonder if the recent TSP/Iran tiff was massa poked to get TSP into a "war against terror part 2" and TSP can use the excuse of Iran's missile strike as the reason.
TSP wins, US Wins and TSP gets stronger in Balochistan

[Atmavik]

^^^ if TSP falls for this then it will be their end

[IndraD]

Iran has launched series of attacks on Israel, drones, cruise missiles in 100s leaping towards Israel

[Atmavik]

Iran has launched series of attacks on Israel, drones, cruise missiles in 100s leaping towards Israel

Iran has CM ? similar to what pakis have.

[sanman]

Iran has launched series of attacks on Israel, drones, cruise missiles in 100s leaping towards Israel

Those slow-moving drones will take hours to reach Israel.
Iran is also expected to launch ballistic missiles whose arrival will coincide with the arrival of the drones.


How come these Hamas guys don't use any chaff in their missiles? Every anti-missile system depends on radar.

[sanman]

Ghar me ghus ke marenge?

"Where's Daddy?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RmNJH4UN3s

[hgupta]

The way I look at it is that Hamas unleashed a terrible force to be reckoned with when it went and invaded Israel proper and killed over 1,000 civilians. So in a reversal of biblical history, the Israelis are doing a Roman style retribution against the Gazans as a very powerful lesson to be remembered for generations, the same way that the Jews of ancient Roman times remembered for almost 1900 years of the Roman retribution.

It is very unpleasant but necessary in the grand scheme of things. Now, the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab world knows Israeli resolve and its terrible anger. That being said, Israel is indeed still looking for enemies that could kill them. The problem with that strategy is that what happens if Israel does meet an enemy that could kill Israel. Israel will not survive that conflict. They are in that trap.

[sanman]

NYT Showing Its Biased Game, Censoring Certain Words

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXNPWHGOsEQ

[sanman]

China, Indonesia Come Out In Support Of Palestine's UN Bid As U.S. Plans To Block It

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lkjw0gUrLE

[Manish_P]

China, Indonesia Come Out In Support Of Palestine's UN Bid As U.S. Plans To Block It

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lkjw0gUrLE

The US has vetoed the motion (statehood to palestine) hasn't it ?

[sanman]

The US has vetoed the motion (statehood to palestine) hasn't it ?

Yes, they'd desperately tried to get others to vote against it, so that they wouldn't be stuck nakedly using their veto.

But that's what they had to do in the end.

[Deans]

My latest blogpost on the Gaza War. I argue that Israel has turned it around, beating Hamas and calling the bluff of Hezbollah and Iran.

https://rpdeans.blogspot.com/2024/04/ga ... round.html

[sanman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9M2aHN3F5I

Just like American support for AfPak jihadis boomeranged by causing 9/11, likewise Netanyahu's support for the Hamas jihadis boomeranged by causing Oct 7. He knows this, and is trying escape accountability for his own shortsightedness, by heaping destruction on the entire population of Gaza. He's basically carrying out a Final Solution, while US watches awkwardly and obediently ships them more bombs.

Netanyahu has no intention of allowing any future possibility of a Palestinian state, and this also means wiping out the existing Palestinian presence "from the river to the sea."

The Hebrews are so named for being "the people beyond the river" - the particular river being the Jordan river.

The Hindus are likewise another "people beyond the river" - the particular river being the Indus.

But America showers Israel's side of the river with petals - and that's why the Israelis love to promote American world dominance., since they get to ride on America's shoulders.

Meanwhile, America pisses all over us on our side of the river - and that's why we don't want a US-dominated world like India does, because that just means Washington will keep pissing all over us. We'd like a more multi-polar world where we won't be as pissed upon.

So there's a key difference in what Israeli nationalists want and what Indian nationalists want. Israelis, unlike Indians, need America as their Far Emperor.

But it's also worth remembering that America's founding fathers, who had fought to overthrow the British Empire, did not want their own country to become an empire. Had they felt otherwise, they would not have architected the US Constitution in the way that they did. That's why they wrote in separation of powers, and fundamental protections for political freedoms, including freedom of speech. The Israelis need for those protections to be more permanently removed, so that they can further collar America as their Far Emperor. A more aggressively imperialist interventionist America may be in their interest, but it's not in our interest.

[uddu]

Where

The Hindus are likewise another "people beyond the river" - the particular river being the Indus.

When did the Indus started flowing in Afghanistan? Hindukush, Gandhara, Bhamiyan Buddhas are not Forgotten. Your love for Hamas and your attempted subtle propaganda is noted. Other than the Indian Govts diplomatic message of a Palestine, no sane person in the world has any love for Palestine a Pakistan on steroids in the middle east. So rather than try your propaganda here, try it somewhere where it sells.

[sanman]

When did the Indus started flowing in Afghanistan? Hindukush, Gandhara, Bhamiyan Buddhas are not Forgotten. Your love for Hamas and your attempted subtle propaganda is noted. Other than the Indian Govts diplomatic message of a Palestine, no sane person in the world has any love for Palestine a Pakistan on steroids in the middle east. So rather than try your propaganda here, try it somewhere where it sells.

You're fixating on Palestine issue.

I'm mainly talking about something else which you seem to be ignoring:

Israelis like American imperialism and interventionism abroad -- because they overwhelmingly benefit from it.

We Indians don't benefit from all this American imperialism and interventionism. We've suffered because of it.

Israelis like NeoCons, including Victoria Nuland. She helped them by knocking down Saddam Hussein, knocking down Moammar Qadaffi, and almost knocking down Assad in Syria. Only reason Syria plan didn't work, is because Putin intervened by sending Russian forces into Syria to thwart it.
Since then, US has gone after Russia by provoking Russia-Ukraine war, since they want Putin removed.

We Indians don't like Nuland or the other Washington elites who want to impose their will on any country when the mood strikes them.
We don't like it when Nuland whispers to Pak generals to overthrow civilian politicians and overtly taking control of the country.
We don't like it when US gives even more aid and loans to deadbeat Pakistan which never repays.
We don't like it when US tries to dictate to us where we can buy our oil from.
We don't like it when US calls us human rights abusers and accuses Indian govt of killing Khalistani Nijjar or Pannu or whoever.
We also don't like it when US engages in inflationary spending, effectively devaluing the value of our forex reserves with them. We have $640Billion in forex, and the US is siphoning off that money for itself through inflationary deficit spending, stealing the money Indians have earned. It won't be long before US even threatens to directly confiscate our money, just as it's now started to do with Russia.

Due to our repeated bad experiences, we Indians want a multi-polar world rather than a US-dominated one.
Israelis and their Israel lobby want the opposite.

I don't know which cricket team you're cheering for -- whether it's Pakistani cricket team or Israeli cricket team -- but I only cheer for the Indian cricket team. You should learn to cheer for the right team.
Because India is not a mere hotel to be housing you, while you see your home as elsewhere.

[Haresh]

Something that we should all consider, especially those of Indian origin in the West

'We are all Hamas': Increasing Collaboration between Foes of India and Israel

https://www.meforum.org/61390/collabora ... and-israel

[sanman]

Something that we should all consider, especially those of Indian origin in the West

'We are all Hamas': Increasing Collaboration between Foes of India and Israel

https://www.meforum.org/61390/collabora ... and-israel

I'm acutely aware of the collaboration between the Hindu-haters and the Jew-haters.

But have you noticed how Victoria Nuland and her fellow NeoCons are also representative of the Israel lobby?

You're completely neglecting this reality.

NeoCons like Nuland, Kagan, Krystol, Perle, Wolfowitz, Abrams, etc originated from the catastrophic collapse of Bill Clinton's Israeli-Palestinian "peace process".
Their killer survival instincts were triggered by that seminal event.

When 9/11 attacks happened, it was a stroke of luck for them, because they saw that as their entry point to seize control over US policy and use it to re-shape the world (primarily the Middle East) to their liking.

They quickly abandoned the US fight in Afghanistan in 2003, declaring "Mission Accomplished". They ran away from that war, and ran to declare their new preferred war to destroy Saddam Hussein - much to the shock and horror of Europe. They initially claimed Saddam was responsible for 9/11, but that argument fell apart under sharp European rebuttals. So the NeoCons then argued that Saddam was building nukes ("WMD"), and then used that as the new ad-hoc pretext to invade and eliminate him.

After eliminating Saddam, they then turned their sights on Qaddafi, another Arab strongman. Note that the US had made peace with Qadafi in the aftermath of 9/11 -- "burying the hatchet" -- and he was actually welcome in western capitals. The NeoCons nevertheless promptly dug up that hatchet and then buried it in Qaddafi's back. After eliminating Qadafi, the NeoCons then turned their sights on the Assad regime in Syria. They used the protests in Egypt's Tahrir Square to orchestrate Arab Spring. (Note that even India suffered collateral damage from this policy, with Obama/Hillary deciding to sponsor Kejriwal to play the Arab Spring game in India)

This "colour revolution" game was used as a springboard to launch a massive insurgency inside Syria, with the goal of toppling Assad's regime.
But Putin saw what was happening, and quickly intervened to preserve his Syrian client, by sending in Russian forces to crush the insurgents, even using heavy bombers to do so.

That then made Putin the next main target of the NeoCons, who took aim at Ukraine as the natural sensitive fault line to hammer upon - triggering the Russia Ukraine war.

Now we Indians have become yet another new target, because our oil & arms purchases from Russia are seen as an obstacle to this new campaign to smash Russia economically. That's why we're suddenly being raked over the coals over Pannu, Nijjar, etc. That's why Khalistanis suddenly have America's strong sympathies. (Have you seen their latest human rights report? Note that it's Nuland's aide Donald Lu who is pointedly going after India)
That's also why Garcetti is now hyperactively shooting his mouth off during our elections. It's why Western headlines are now constantly talking about Modi's "authoritarianism".

So you're willing to give a free pass to the NeoCons (who are part of the Israel lobby) on all of this, because you don't see the connections between all of these events. And also because you'd just like to fanboy over Israel. Rather than one-sided fanboyism, there needs to be mutual respect.

I cannot give such a free pass to the NeoCons, and I'm afraid that I do indeed see a deeper common thread among these events, which you may unfortunately see as unconnected. You'll accuse me of connecting too many dots. But I feel that it is you who aren't seeing the patterns in this chaos - and therefore you just shrug your shoulders and say "Bah! These Americans are just crazy!" - and meanwhile you don't see the "method behind the madness".
I believe that these NeoCons are posing a serious and increasing threat to us, due to their infestation of the Washington policymaking establishment which controls the world's largest superpower.

[sanman]

China Brokers Talks Between Hamas and PLO/Fatah to Forge Common Front

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NDlfv5zmiA

(I think this is the real reason why Blinken is threatening China over support to Russia)

[uddu]

When did the Indus started flowing in Afghanistan? Hindukush, Gandhara, Bhamiyan Buddhas are not Forgotten. Your love for Hamas and your attempted subtle propaganda is noted. Other than the Indian Govts diplomatic message of a Palestine, no sane person in the world has any love for Palestine a Pakistan on steroids in the middle east. So rather than try your propaganda here, try it somewhere where it sells.

You're fixating on Palestine issue.

I'm mainly talking about something else which you seem to be ignoring:

Israelis like American imperialism and interventionism abroad -- because they overwhelmingly benefit from it.

We Indians don't benefit from all this American imperialism and interventionism. We've suffered because of it.

Israelis like NeoCons, including Victoria Nuland. She helped them by knocking down Saddam Hussein, knocking down Moammar Qadaffi, and almost knocking down Assad in Syria. Only reason Syria plan didn't work, is because Putin intervened by sending Russian forces into Syria to thwart it.
Since then, US has gone after Russia by provoking Russia-Ukraine war, since they want Putin removed.

We Indians don't like Nuland or the other Washington elites who want to impose their will on any country when the mood strikes them.
We don't like it when Nuland whispers to Pak generals to overthrow civilian politicians and overtly taking control of the country.
We don't like it when US gives even more aid and loans to deadbeat Pakistan which never repays.
We don't like it when US tries to dictate to us where we can buy our oil from.
We don't like it when US calls us human rights abusers and accuses Indian govt of killing Khalistani Nijjar or Pannu or whoever.
We also don't like it when US engages in inflationary spending, effectively devaluing the value of our forex reserves with them. We have $640Billion in forex, and the US is siphoning off that money for itself through inflationary deficit spending, stealing the money Indians have earned. It won't be long before US even threatens to directly confiscate our money, just as it's now started to do with Russia.

Due to our repeated bad experiences, we Indians want a multi-polar world rather than a US-dominated one.
Israelis and their Israel lobby want the opposite.

I don't know which cricket team you're cheering for -- whether it's Pakistani cricket team or Israeli cricket team -- but I only cheer for the Indian cricket team. You should learn to cheer for the right team.
Because India is not a mere hotel to be housing you, while you see your home as elsewhere.

Admins, take note. The pysops is being played here. First trying to gain sympathy by trying to compare India with the filths. Since the filths have a slogan of sea and ocean ,we are bound by ocean, hence we are one kind of gibberish. Second trying to put the blame of the U.S Administrative actions on Jews and to Israel without informing users that the Nuland types and Soros types are the ones who are damaging Israel through their actions. Be it in support of Violence and demonstrations in Israel earlier or even today, funding U.S university demonstrations targeting Jews. There was a similar account called Tuan who used to do leftist propaganda for LTTE using similar tactics. Jews are being targeted here and especially their nation Israel. There is not even a single mention of direct help to India by Israel be it in Agriculture or Kargil war. Utter gibberish is written to hoodwink readers, and especially to further the propaganda of hatred against Israel and its done in a a subtle way of claiming to be Indian and wanting to further Indian interest, ,contrary to reality on the ground. The earlier Admins ban such accounts, the better.

[sanman]

Admins, take note. The pysops is being played here.

I will rebutt your false assertions one by one.

First trying to gain sympathy by trying to compare India with the filths. Since the filths have a slogan of sea and ocean ,we are bound by ocean, hence we are one kind of gibberish.

Who am I comparing Indians with? You mean I'm comparing India to Muslim Ummah and claiming similarities?
No, I'm not a sympathizer of the Ummah, which colonized us - quite the opposite. But I still recognize that America also behaves like a colonial imperial power, since we've been on the receiving end of their imperialism.

Second trying to put the blame of the U.S Administrative actions on Jews and to Israel without informing users that the Nuland types and Soros types are the ones who are damaging Israel through their actions.

So now you're claiming Soros and Nuland are the same team. Ridiculous - Soros is a Lefty Globalist, while Nuland is a NeoCon. Do you not remember during Bush-Cheney whitehouse, the NeoCons were fully part of that administration, while Soros & Co were vociferously opposed to it? Do you not remember the origin of Soros' infamous signature campaign through MoveOn.Org ? Clearly Lefty Globalist Soros is not part of the pro-Israel lobby, so don't inject his name to clutter the discussion.

Globalist Soros is not part of the Israeli lobby, but Nuland and her NeoCons can certainly be said to be. She served in Bush-Cheney admin, along with Elliott Abrams, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, illegally invading Iraq and destroying its govt. After killing off Saddam, the next target of the lobby was Qaddafi, who was also quickly toppled and destroyed. Then Assad was next to come under fire, and was only rescued by Putin. And therefore Putin has now come under American fire.

Be it in support of Violence and demonstrations in Israel earlier or even today, funding U.S university demonstrations targeting Jews. There was a similar account called Tuan who used to do leftist propaganda for LTTE using similar tactics. Jews are being targeted here and especially their nation Israel.

There are plenty of Jewish students participating in those protests. The anti-semitism incidents in those protests have been miniscule and sporadic. The politicians on the lobby's payroll have of course overblown such incidents in order to create a narrative suited for crackdown. (Note that even one incident of an anti-semitic racial slur will send the payroll politicians into a frenzy, while umpteen number of vandalisms against Hindu temples by rabid Khalistanis doesn't even elicit a yawn from any of them. Same situation in Canada, where their authorities are immediately investigating nascent copycat campus protests for possible anti-semitism, but meanwhile Khalistanis can run rampant under their very same noses -- in spite of the fact that Hindu Canadians outnumber Jews by threefold!)

Lefty Soros is indeed funding the anti-Israel protests. And as we know, he's of course targeted Modi, and is funding various Hindu-baiters.
But Nuland and NeoCons are not with Soros, and are acting in support of Israel - that's why they made a beeline to target all the main Arab strongmen first and foremost. I'm not knocking them for that, since we're not Arabs - but I am pointing to it as proof that they're part of the hydra-headed Israel lobby, and are merely just a different branch. Their lobby exists on both the Left and RIght sides of US politics, but you don't seem to recognize that. I'll also say that NeoCons' reactivation/re-legitimization of American imperialism puts us at risk.

Regarding LTTE, you may remember Victor Ostrovsky's much-publicized book, "By Way of Deception", where he told how Israelis would train both Lankan Army & LTTE cadres at the same time, in nearby facilities. You should draw a lesson from that anecdote, instead of being a blind fanboy.

There is not even a single mention of direct help to India by Israel be it in Agriculture or Kargil war. Utter gibberish is written to hoodwink readers, and especially to further the propaganda of hatred against Israel and its done in a a subtle way of claiming to be Indian and wanting to further Indian interest, ,contrary to reality on the ground. The earlier Admins ban such accounts, the better.

I do recognize the Israeli govt's help to India, be it in agriculture and water management, in vital military systems and technologies. The Israeli X-band SAR we launched on RISAT -2 was of course due to Israel's timely help. And of course all of their numerous weapons systems we've bought, including Heron drones.

I'm not trying to trash Israel's govt -- but I'll point out that the Israeli govt and the wider pro-Israel lobby are not identical. Out of the various pro-Israel groups, some of them are quite hostile to India: Fundamentalist Christian Zionists are one example, and NeoCons are another.
I'm pointing out that Nuland & NeoCons are a huge source of problems for India right now -- and they are indeed driven by their desire to support Israel. I'm connecting the dots and saying that Nuland/NeoCons are hell-bent on re-drawing entire Middle East by hook or by crook to make Israel safe (I don't necessarily object to that re-drawing, if it makes us safer as well). But the problem arises where Nuland/NeoCons feel a need to take their war to Russia, which unavoidably reignites Cold War equations and thus puts India in danger. Then all of a sudden, India is back in America's gunsights. You're refusing to recognize the base motivations of Nuland and the NeoCons.

While I've said that Nuland is motivated by a desire to support Israel, you've claimed that Nuland's actions have harmed Israel. If she's harmed Israel's interests, it's only happened unwittingly rather than deliberately, because she herself is a Jewish supporter of Israel, who also happens to be of Ukrainian descent. It can certainly be argued that Nuland's myopia and stupidity in going after Russia and reigniting Cold War hostilities has created negative spillover effects for Israel's security in the Middle East. After all, the Russia-Ukraine war has given Iran an opportunity to ingratiate itself to Russia, and gain Russia's favour. Iran in turn has become emboldened (maybe even instigated) into orchestrating the Hamas attack of Oct 7.
(I've pointed out before in this forum that Russia might possibly have instigated the Iranians into instigating the Oct 7 Hamas attack on Israel, because this would have helped create a distraction for America to divert attention away from exclusive fixation on Russia. In this sense, Nuland's war on Russia could be seen as a myopic folly)

Reigniting the Cold War is bad for India, but a section of the pro-Israel lobby seems wedded to the Cold War and its thinking. To that extent, we should see the dangers that these factions pose to us.