10/7 vs 9/11 (Israel-Gaza) Strategic Fallout & Implications

[sanman]

India Pushes For 'Independent Country For Palestinians'; Endorses UN Membership

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNymYcf2qGs

[Manish_P]

India is not 'pushing' anything.

India supports a 2 states solution, if both entities agree, just as it has in the past.

[sanman]

Jerry Rao: After Israel, the next target is India

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_nBcbUxDWY

[sanman]

Bibi Netanyahu primer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTZXHKArvuU

[venkat_kv]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9M2aHN3F5I

Just like American support for AfPak jihadis boomeranged by causing 9/11, likewise Netanyahu's support for the Hamas jihadis boomeranged by causing Oct 7. He knows this, and is trying escape accountability for his own shortsightedness, by heaping destruction on the entire population of Gaza. He's basically carrying out a Final Solution, while US watches awkwardly and obediently ships them more bombs.

Netanyahu has no intention of allowing any future possibility of a Palestinian state, and this also means wiping out the existing Palestinian presence "from the river to the sea."

The Hebrews are so named for being "the people beyond the river" - the particular river being the Jordan river.

The Hindus are likewise another "people beyond the river" - the particular river being the Indus.

But America showers Israel's side of the river with petals - and that's why the Israelis love to promote American world dominance., since they get to ride on America's shoulders.

Meanwhile, America pisses all over us on our side of the river - and that's why we don't want a US-dominated world like India does, because that just means Washington will keep pissing all over us. We'd like a more multi-polar world where we won't be as pissed upon.

So there's a key difference in what Israeli nationalists want and what Indian nationalists want. Israelis, unlike Indians, need America as their Far Emperor.

But it's also worth remembering that America's founding fathers, who had fought to overthrow the British Empire, did not want their own country to become an empire. Had they felt otherwise, they would not have architected the US Constitution in the way that they did. That's why they wrote in separation of powers, and fundamental protections for political freedoms, including freedom of speech. The Israelis need for those protections to be more permanently removed, so that they can further collar America as their Far Emperor. A more aggressively imperialist interventionist America may be in their interest, but it's not in our interest.

Sanman Saar,
I think you are going off on a tangent with one or two pieces of info. It wasn't just the American support to jihadis that caused 9/11, but the rampant radicalization that went unchecked after the afghan war with soviets that was continued with Pakistan training and Saudi money. Most of it was supposed to have been closed and the existing cadres sent to deradicalization centers, but its easily said than done.
Israel, has always maintained relations with any country that was willing to recognize the state of Israel, (like Iran under Shah and the apartheid regime of South Africa). Israel has always prioritized this and it has it own value where they are willing to work with any country having diplomatic/good relations with them.
PLO wasn't any saint and were as brutal in their heydays as the hamas is now.(the massacres of athletes in Munich olympics, bombings). The Israeli dispensation tried every trick to weaken the PLO with targeted killings to promoting divisions, to promoting rival factions. (nothing new when you see what is done in most other cases The British did some of their own over the IRA in its hey days).

Netanyahu wasn't in power from the disbanding of PLO till the rise of Hamas. israeli have their won divisions to cater to with the newer generations preferring the bhaichara koolaid. And this selective leaks are designed to paint the current Israeli leadership in poor light. there have been security mistakes that are made and they need to rectify the same (after all the initial reports did point out that workers coming from palestinian side pointing out the flaws.

The jewish people are the only group of people who is modern history were about to be eradicated wholesale and their survival instincts have kicked in. they will fight anyone who is opposed to them for that very reason and US regime change has nothing to do with that. After second world war US has been involved in a big war in every decade (korea, vietnam, south america, afganistan, baltic states, gulf war1, afganistan again, gulf war 2, ukraine vs russia). All of these were not driven by Israel.

The question that needs to be asked is why was there no condemnation of hamas when they took ordinary civilians as hostages leading them like some war slaves and all the high flying Wapo, NYT and huff post like publications didn't condemn hamas nor asked any questions of Qatar which is housing the leadership of Hamas. Qatar itself is under US umbrella of protection. So how come there are no FATF related question for the Qatar. Qatar is afterall needed to supply gas to Europe after cutting russian gas supplies that were cheaper.

The answer lies in self interests for each country whether Israeli or US or Qatar or anyone else for that matter. You are absolutely right that we shouldn't blindly support the israelis and that is the reason why India supports the 2 nation settlement with Palestinians also deserving a state of their own. but we stand with friends with our interests in IMEC or the Haifa port driving our self interests in this.

[sanman]

Sanman Saar,
I think you are going off on a tangent with one or two pieces of info. It wasn't just the American support to jihadis that caused 9/11, but the rampant radicalization that went unchecked after the afghan war with soviets that was continued with Pakistan training and Saudi money. Most of it was supposed to have been closed and the existing cadres sent to deradicalization centers, but its easily said than done.

Americans outsourced Afghan jihad to Pak, and Zia cunningly milked that to the hilt, while Americans couldn't care less about any collateral damage to India.

Israel, has always maintained relations with any country that was willing to recognize the state of Israel, (like Iran under Shah and the apartheid regime of South Africa). Israel has always prioritized this and it has it own value where they are willing to work with any country having diplomatic/good relations with them.

I'm not reflexively trashing Israelis, and I recognize the value of the economic, trade and arms relationship with them. But I think we need to notice that US-based Israeli lobby is hydra-headed, and some factions of that lobby are willing to stomp all over India. I'm specifically talking about the NeoCons (eg. Victoria Nuland) who extend their ambitions beyond re-drawing Arab states to additionally taking on Russia, whom they see as a backer of Syria and Iran. By reviving the Cold War animosity with Russia, they're then inevitably putting India in their crosshairs, since we're dependent on Russia and cannot discard our relationship with them. Remember that India is at best just an afterthought to them, so they don't care what happens to us, nor are they willing to make any concession for our interests.

PLO wasn't any saint and were as brutal in their heydays as the hamas is now.(the massacres of athletes in Munich olympics, bombings). The Israeli dispensation tried every trick to weaken the PLO with targeted killings to promoting divisions, to promoting rival factions. (nothing new when you see what is done in most other cases The British did some of their own over the IRA in its hey days).

Arabs are not pacifists, to be sure, and have their own bad temperament. Their AfPak offspring/converts are even worse. The outermost edges of the ummah are the most ferocious.
But locking up people into a Bantu-stan and bombarding them seems to me akin to locking a dog in a cage and poking him with a stick until he becomes vicious.

Netanyahu wasn't in power from the disbanding of PLO till the rise of Hamas. israeli have their won divisions to cater to with the newer generations preferring the bhaichara koolaid. And this selective leaks are designed to paint the current Israeli leadership in poor light. there have been security mistakes that are made and they need to rectify the same (after all the initial reports did point out that workers coming from palestinian side pointing out the flaws.

Netanyahu came to power after Ehud Barak, and chose the strategy of supporting Hamas in order to defeat the PLO. This inevitably set the stage for blowback (aka. "snakes in the backyard to bite your PLO neighbors")
But we all know that Iran is the main patron of Hamas, and likely helped orchestrate the Oct 7 attacks as a way to derail the looming Israel-Saudi peace agreement that was supposed to form the lynchpin of IMEC (India-MiddleEast-European Corridor)

The jewish people are the only group of people who is modern history were about to be eradicated wholesale and their survival instincts have kicked in. they will fight anyone who is opposed to them for that very reason and US regime change has nothing to do with that. After second world war US has been involved in a big war in every decade (korea, vietnam, south america, afganistan, baltic states, gulf war1, afganistan again, gulf war 2, ukraine vs russia). All of these were not driven by Israel.

Yes, I agree that the European Holocaust against Jews was a defining trauma for them, along with their longtime statelessness. But I blame Brits and Americans for that European Holocaust more than the Arabs.
Colonial Brits were always playing imperial games against Europe, and then Americans joined in to pile on against Germany in WW1. The resulting lopsided victory over Germany created the untenable Treaty of Versailles, which then inevitably led to German backlash and WW2. This German backlash included blaming the Jewish minorities for Germany's humiliation, which culminated in a genocidal extermination campaign.

The question that needs to be asked is why was there no condemnation of hamas when they took ordinary civilians as hostages leading them like some war slaves and all the high flying Wapo, NYT and huff post like publications didn't condemn hamas nor asked any questions of Qatar which is housing the leadership of Hamas. Qatar itself is under US umbrella of protection. So how come there are no FATF related question for the Qatar. Qatar is afterall needed to supply gas to Europe after cutting russian gas supplies that were cheaper.

I think all the MSM condemned Hamas. But support for Israel has then fallen away since then, given its own indiscriminate bombardment against civilians who are effectively captives. Remember that Modi was the first to offer assistance to Israel on Oct 7, but since then we too have had to balance our condemnation of Hamas terror with reminders that nations must abide by the laws of war on treatment of civilians.

On Qatar, how come the wily Americans haven't tried their regime-change tricks on it, like they're so willing to try against Modi?
Isn't it because they see us less-developed but democratic Indians as easier pushovers compared to tiny Qatar's dictatorial emirate?

The answer lies in self interests for each country whether Israeli or US or Qatar or anyone else for that matter. You are absolutely right that we shouldn't blindly support the israelis and that is the reason why India supports the 2 nation settlement with Palestinians also deserving a state of their own. but we stand with friends with our interests in IMEC or the Haifa port driving our self interests in this.

Anyway, the Palestinians aren't important enough for me to make me anti-Israel. I remember when Israelis launched their lunar mission, I tuned in live to watch their landing attempt, and felt their mission had many inspiring things we should learn from -- like their inclusion of an archive crystal which encoded the history of Jewish civilization, their holy texts, and Jewish intellectual writings. Their intellectualism certainly outpaces ours.

It's really the Russophobic contingent within the US-based Israel lobby (ie. the NeoCons) who make me the most wary -- because their Russophobia and their willingness to launch a new Cold War 2.0 will inevitably mean victimizing India.
Well before Putin's invasion, as I watched the confrontation with Russia developing, I became worried about a looming new Cold War that could bring back to India the bad old days of the terrorism-filled 1980s again.
We can't just sit there and take all of that lying down. NRI populations in both US and Canada are much larger now, and must be mobilized to oppose and arrest these negative trends.

[Pratyush]

Sanman,

A minor correction about the post WW1 German position WRT Jews.

It was a blood liable, dating back to the crucifixion of Christ. There had been multiple program against European Jews right through the centuries.

Hitler was just the latest in that line. He success was a result of acess to industrial means of human slaughter.

Rest of you post, I am not in any major disagreements with you.

[venkat_kv]

Sanman Saar,
I think you are going off on a tangent with one or two pieces of info. It wasn't just the American support to jihadis that caused 9/11, but the rampant radicalization that went unchecked after the afghan war with soviets that was continued with Pakistan training and Saudi money. Most of it was supposed to have been closed and the existing cadres sent to deradicalization centers, but its easily said than done.

The question that needs to be asked is why was there no condemnation of hamas when they took ordinary civilians as hostages leading them like some war slaves and all the high flying Wapo, NYT and huff post like publications didn't condemn hamas nor asked any questions of Qatar which is housing the leadership of Hamas. Qatar itself is under US umbrella of protection. So how come there are no FATF related question for the Qatar. Qatar is afterall needed to supply gas to Europe after cutting russian gas supplies that were cheaper.

I think all the MSM condemned Hamas. But support for Israel has then fallen away since then, given its own indiscriminate bombardment against civilians who are effectively captives. Remember that Modi was the first to offer assistance to Israel on Oct 7, but since then we too have had to balance our condemnation of Hamas terror with reminders that nations must abide by the laws of war on treatment of civilians.

On Qatar, how come the wily Americans haven't tried their regime-change tricks on it, like they're so willing to try against Modi?
Isn't it because they see us less-developed but democratic Indians as easier pushovers compared to tiny Qatar's dictatorial emirate?


It's really the Russophobic contingent within the US-based Israel lobby (ie. the NeoCons) who make me the most wary -- because their Russophobia and their willingness to launch a new Cold War 2.0 will inevitably mean victimizing India.
Well before Putin's invasion, as I watched the confrontation with Russia developing, I became worried about a looming new Cold War that could bring back to India the bad old days of the terrorism-filled 1980s again.
We can't just sit there and take all of that lying down. NRI populations in both US and Canada are much larger now, and must be mobilized to oppose and arrest these negative trends.

Sanman Saar,
you can try looking for the Wapo and NYT coverage. there was no widespread condemnation of hamas, there was a normal coverage of attacks on Israel. The question that also needs to be asked why was hamas building tunnels under hospitals and in residential areas and what were the civilians doing justifying this nonsense.

The external aid from muslim world was squandered to build their tunnel network while keeping people in poverty and less development. I haven't seen anyone ask these questions, and i don't mean one off article here and there but articles front and center like what is being shown right now.

Qatar regime change is not done as they are aligned with US interests currently and also indispensable to the US to supply gas to Europe instead of Russia, so there is a certain leverage that Qatar enjoys, same thing with the Chinese they have leverage with being the "so called factory of the world" and once India reaches the same position of being indispensable these constant lectures will melt away. Nobody lectures Chinese on human rights or atrocities on Muslims in Xinjiang or Buddhists in tibet.

[sanman]

Sanman,

A minor correction about the post WW1 German position WRT Jews.

It was a blood liable, dating back to the crucifixion of Christ. There had been multiple program against European Jews right through the centuries.

Entire Christian world engaged in that blood libel, not merely Germany. Spanish inquisition saw terrible persecution of Jews, and some fled to Arab lands.

Hitler was just the latest in that line. He success was a result of acess to industrial means of human slaughter.

Rest of you post, I am not in any major disagreements with you.

WW2, Nazism and Holocaust would not have happened if Brits and Americans hadn't piled on in a lopsided victory over Germany, creating the lopsided Treaty of Versailles. Britain wouldn't have been able to play so many imperial games against Europe if Britain hadn't been boosted on steroids by its colonial enterprises, especially India.
The fact that so many Indians could be ruled for so long by so few doesn't say anything good about Indians.

[Cain Marko]

So, 8-10 months into the war, have the Israelis presented anything to the world in terms of the child beheadings? Gory videos, photu and what not?

[sanman]

So, 8-10 months into the war, have the Israelis presented anything to the world in terms of the child beheadings? Gory videos, photu and what not?

The avalanche of anti-Israel backlash over the bombing of Gaza civilians seems to have put Israel's most lurid claims under intense enough scrutiny to make them sound questionable.
But we don't have to look for evidence of sexually assaulted babies to know Oct 7 was an atrocity. Look at even just the young people killed at the music festival.

I think Netanyahu's overconfident bold manner seems a little bit tonedeaf in the face of international oppobrium. It even comes across as a bit cocky.

This conflict has certainly forced America's Israel lobby to expose itself more. The NYT's crooked antics are being exposed more than ever, and so many media people are coming out of the closet and into the open.

[Cain Marko]

So, 8-10 months into the war, have the Israelis presented anything to the world in terms of the child beheadings? Gory videos, photu and what not?

The avalanche of anti-Israel backlash over the bombing of Gaza civilians seems to have put Israel's most lurid claims under intense enough scrutiny to make them sound questionable.
But we don't have to look for evidence of sexually assaulted babies to know Oct 7 was an atrocity. Look at even just the young people killed at the music festival.

I agree. and the depravity of terrorism is hardly questionable nor was the treatment of kurds and civilians by saddam any less barbaric. But then, most agree that the invasion of Iraq was an act of aggressive imperialism based on a flimsy vial. How is the baby beheading thing different? Where is the proof? ("terrorists always do this" hardly cuts it)

[sanman]

I agree. and the depravity of terrorism is hardly questionable nor was the treatment of kurds and civilians by saddam any less barbaric. But then, most agree that the invasion of Iraq was an act of aggressive imperialism based on a flimsy vial. How is the baby beheading thing different? Where is the proof? ("terrorists always do this" hardly cuts it)

Same thing was done against Saddam during Desert Storm when Kuwaiti ambassador's daughter claimed that "babies were torn from incubators."

Critics these days are highlighting how CNN has to send all its stories on the current conflict to its Jerusalem Bureau for approval before they can be reported. I wish there was more scrutiny on the management who are behind such decisions. It's really their names which need to be named, because they're the enablers.

That's why I'm glad to see various media outlets and their propagandist operatives now being raked over the coals for their predictable games of claims-without-proof.

Because I'm fed up of all the propaganda these same outlets have spewed against India.
The Enemy of My NYT Enemy is My Friend.

[Cain Marko]

I agree. and the depravity of terrorism is hardly questionable nor was the treatment of kurds and civilians by saddam any less barbaric. But then, most agree that the invasion of Iraq was an act of aggressive imperialism based on a flimsy vial. How is the baby beheading thing different? Where is the proof? ("terrorists always do this" hardly cuts it)

Same thing was done against Saddam during Desert Storm when Kuwaiti ambassador's daughter claimed that "babies were torn from incubators."

You are right, of course. But you should have seen the reaction when I suggested India being a little more circumspect about the conflict based on one sided evidence. Folks here were frothing at the mouth

Thank God that India has saner leadership.

[gakakkad]

i don't think Israelis think of nyt or WaPo as friends. they hate them. Also this whole incident exposes the fact that the islamic lobby is way more powerful than the pro-israel lobby. What israel did was as a response to the biggest murder of Jews in a single day since the holocaust. I don't think they should have to explain their response to the world. 10/7 is already forgooten and you see palestinan flags wherever you go. Most of us wonder why we didn't respond in such a manner to 26/11. God , forbid if there a another such attack we would certainly hope that Modi go for an earth scorching wipe out of terroristan. Also the Zionist lobby is an ally of the Indians in the US.Unlike the Islamic lobby. Pure logic should dictate where our support lies. The civilian collateral damage in Gaza is Hamas' responsibility and no one else.

[Arima]

i don't think Israelis think of nyt or WaPo as friends. they hate them. Also this whole incident exposes the fact that the islamic lobby is way more powerful than the pro-israel lobby. What israel did was as a response to the biggest murder of Jews in a single day since the holocaust. I don't think they should have to explain their response to the world. 10/7 is already forgooten and you see palestinan flags wherever you go. Most of us wonder why we didn't respond in such a manner to 26/11. God , forbid if there a another such attack we would certainly hope that Modi go for an earth scorching wipe out of terroristan. Also the Zionist lobby is an ally of the Indians in the US.Unlike the Islamic lobby. Pure logic should dictate where our support lies. The civilian collateral damage in Gaza is Hamas' responsibility and no one else.

demography could be a reason. Muslim population is high and growing in US. conversion among African american is also growing high.
Zion lobby is powerful in terms of deep state ties and money, but numbers are stagnant.

for politician, vote counts more than anything.


in long term, Muslim population will be more than Jews in Israel/Palestine if we count displaced Palestine Muslim population as well.

[sanman]

i don't think Israelis think of nyt or WaPo as friends. they hate them. Also this whole incident exposes the fact that the islamic lobby is way more powerful than the pro-israel lobby. What israel did was as a response to the biggest murder of Jews in a single day since the holocaust. I don't think they should have to explain their response to the world. 10/7 is already forgooten and you see palestinan flags wherever you go. Most of us wonder why we didn't respond in such a manner to 26/11. God , forbid if there a another such attack we would certainly hope that Modi go for an earth scorching wipe out of terroristan. Also the Zionist lobby is an ally of the Indians in the US.Unlike the Islamic lobby. Pure logic should dictate where our support lies. The civilian collateral damage in Gaza is Hamas' responsibility and no one else.

I don't like Victoria Nuland and her fellow NeoCons -- they have suddenly become extremely hostile to India, and are looking to play every kind of game against us. The reason for this is because they see us as supporters/sustainers/enablers of Russia, whom they want to destroy at all costs. Right now these ignorant arrogant NeoCons are taking us all towards WW3 while not caring one bit. These NeoCons hate Russia because Putin dared to thwart their attempt to overthrow Syria's Assad govt, which happened as part of the Arab Spring, which was their attempt to re-draw the entire Middle East.
The first part of Arab Spring saw the NeoCons overthrowing Qadaffi and having him killed. This was after they pulled US forces out of Afghanistan in 2003, declaring "Mission Accomplished", so that they could illegally invade Iraq and eliminate Saddam Hussein.

So to re-summarize:

NeoCons are a radical fringe section of Israel lobby.
NeoCons first invaded Iraq to kill Saddam, then overthrew and killed Libya's Qaddafi, then tried to overthrow and kill Syria's Assad.
NeoCons immediately targeted Putin after he thwarted their campaign against Assad. They did this by meddling in Ukraine, which is Russia's sensitive vulnerability. We now see a full-on war being carried out by the West against Russia, which could trigger WW3.
NeoCons are now targeting India, because we declined to help West isolated and cripple Russia with sanctions.
Now NeoCons are targeting Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, National Security Advisor Ajit Doval, RAW head Samant Goel, by trying to implicate them in an alleged plot to kill Khalistani Pannu.

[S_Madhukar]

https://youtu.be/lq28ZFNzaWM?si=EktJWCAxug2q3LPG

Israeli person tells Yankee Xtian preacher they are idol worshippers and can’t preach and can be dispatched as per Torah. Boy these desert cults keep giving

[gakakkad]

Neocons aren't a monolithic entity . Israel like India sat out of the Russia , Ukraine war . It is in fact quite likely that the year long anti Bibi protest in Israel that preceded the 10/7 attacks was orchestrated by American neocons like nuland . Bibi certainly thinks so .
The king of neocons George Soros is as much anti Israel (where he is a persona non grata) as he is anti India . While the NY times is run by people who are nominal Jews they aren't pro Israel . Same with state department folks like nuland .
There are several levels of complexity involved here.
Also it is likely the military action we need to repatriate PO-JK may lead to some collateral damage . When that happens porkiland is going to float around pictures of dead civilians , many of them may not be real . Same is the case with Gaza . We need to learn from what is happening in the west w. R. T the loss of narrative by Israel . While Hamas is getting destroyed militaristically , Israel is surely badly losing the narrative /propaganda war .
In a way after we conducted surgical strikes on balakot we lost the narrative warfare even after elimination of 300 pigs .
There is lot of learning from what is happening. Officially India should stay away as it is now with very diplomatic weasel words filled statements .
Behind the scenes it should continue to support Israel (adani is making drones for them , export of essential supplies etc ). And it should studiously analyze all aspects ranging from why the Intel failure occured , to what can improve on the ground to controlling of narrative /propaganda warfare and how Israel failed .

[gakakkad]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com ... -city/amp/

George Soros is paying student radicals who are fueling nationwide explosion of Israel-hating protests

[sanman]

Neocons aren't a monolithic entity . Israel like India sat out of the Russia , Ukraine war . It is in fact quite likely that the year long anti Bibi protest in Israel that preceded the 10/7 attacks was orchestrated by American neocons like nuland . Bibi certainly thinks so.

Here's where we can differentiate between the Israelis and the US-based Israel lobby.
Israel itself would take no position on the Russian-Ukraine war. After all, why offend Russia?
But the NeoCon faction from the fringe of the Israel lobby sees Russia as an obstacle to removing Syria and Iran.

The king of neocons George Soros is as much anti Israel (where he is a persona non grata) as he is anti India . While the NY times is run by people who are nominal Jews they aren't pro Israel . Same with state department folks like nuland.

I agree that George Soros is anti-Israel, but he is NOT a NeoCon. You may remember that Soros actually started MoveOn.Org during the Bush-Cheney years to petition the NeoCons to GTFO of office. He is a wealthy globalist zealot who opposes all nationalists.

There are several levels of complexity involved here.
Also it is likely the military action we need to repatriate PO-JK may lead to some collateral damage . When that happens porkiland is going to float around pictures of dead civilians , many of them may not be real . Same is the case with Gaza . We need to learn from what is happening in the west w. R. T the loss of narrative by Israel . While Hamas is getting destroyed militaristically , Israel is surely badly losing the narrative /propaganda war .
In a way after we conducted surgical strikes on balakot we lost the narrative warfare even after elimination of 300 pigs.

Certainly, when feeling unease about Israel's concentrated bombardment of civilians, I immediately first think of our track record at home. That's literally the first thing that pops into my mind. But I can't think of any example where Indian army has had to do a Gaza or a Grozny. I realize that we have a larger size that affords us a larger margin than Israel does. They are living on a knife's edge.

But I feel that America is real perpetuator of misery there. They are the global hegemon enabling all this strife, and are obstructing any resolution to it. If anybody deserves to have their name tarnished from these events, it's the Americans.

There is lot of learning from what is happening. Officially India should stay away as it is now with very diplomatic weasel words filled statements .
Behind the scenes it should continue to support Israel (adani is making drones for them , export of essential supplies etc ). And it should studiously analyze all aspects ranging from why the Intel failure occured , to what can improve on the ground to controlling of narrative /propaganda warfare and how Israel failed.

I believe it's Iran which helped Hamas plan and carry out the Oct 7 attack. Iran was likely trying to derail the looming Israel-Saudi peace agreement which was to form the lynchpin of IMEC.
So one lesson is how a major player like Iran can completely torpedo an arrangement which it feels threatens to exclude or marginalize it.
For a relatively small investment, Iran has received a huge payoff.

[A_Gupta]

It gets lost in the myriad headlines at the moment about Rafah, weapons cut offs, Biden, horrific civilian loss of life, etc. But there’s a short piece in the Times of Israel https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-may-11-2024/ this afternoon that captures a dimension of what’s happening right now in Israel that is mostly off the radar in the U.S.

The piece is about a reported blow up between Netanyahu and IDF Chief of Staff Herzi Halevi. Specifically, it has the latter telling Netanyahu that because he refuses to make diplomatic arrangements for the post-war government of Gaza, the IDF is having to go back to fight again in areas it already took over. In some cases they’re having to go back and fight for the same ground a third time!

(Here’s another article in Haaretz https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/202 ... ff88f30000 on how the IDF is now going back into northern Gaza, which they conquered back in the fall. Privately the IDF says Hamas has reestablished control there because there’s no day-after plan, which is a diplomatic to-do item. If you blow it up and leave why wouldn’t they just go back?)

Netanyahu refuses to do that because there’s really no way to plan for the future without blowing up his governing coalition. But without some plan, the Israeli army is reduced to doing something like pushing water up a hill with its hands.

The article is replete with examples of heads of the army or intelligence services trying to get someone to give them a strategy, or actually more than a strategy, just a goal. And it has Netanyahu getting mad because they’re going to the defense minister, himself a former high-level IDF general. It’s not even a question of disagreeing on strategy really — that’s for the political leadership to decide. It’s refusing to come up with any strategy at all.

via:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/tragedy-and-folly

[Vayutuvan]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com ... -city/amp/

George Soros is paying student radicals who are fueling nationwide explosion of Israel-hating protests

If it is from NYPost, it didn't happen (as per some posters in the Understanding the US - Again dhaaga).

[Vayutuvan]

The fact that so many Indians could be ruled for so long by so few doesn't say anything good about Indians.

After the failed first war of independence in 1857, Brutish banned private ownership of firearms in India. Hence the likes of Alluri Seetaraama Raju and Komuram Bheem had to fight with Bows and arrows. I am not going by RRR only. I am born just a few miles from where Komuram Bheem was born.

[chetak]

[Vayutuvan]

The fact that so many Indians could be ruled for so long by so few doesn't say anything good about Indians.

After the failed first war of independence in 1857, Brutish banned private ownership of firearms in India. Hence the likes of Alluri Seetaraama Raju and Komuram Bheem had to fight with Bows and arrows. I am not going by RRR only. I was born at my maternal grandparents' home just a few miles from where Komuram Bheem was born.

(edited to correct grammar)

[sanman]

Greta Thunberg, the ultimate brat, has now forgotten about climate change, and is now completely fixated on Palestine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFz7bGwZg6o

[sanman]

Prof John Mearsheimer gives another strong talk about Middle East

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAfIYtpcBxo

[sanman]

Canada announces economic sanctions against Israeli settlers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi6V4QRpk6Q