India's Contribution to Science & Technology

[bala]

I am not believer in GMO based products that includes Rice. Russia banned GMO completely. I think India ought to ban GMO products completely. Nature has a way of giving the right kinds of food grains (QA'ed over centuries of mankind) for consumption. Most GMO products kill the original sense of the product and often introduce genetics from strange sources (e.g. pigs, etc). If you taste say a tomato in the US it is bland and untomato in taste, same goes for all vegetables, potatoes are awful tasting, fruits lose their essential characteristic taste and flavor.

Bring back natural stuff as provided by nature. In India for example we have a wide variety of rices, just the black rice has so many variants - some can be eaten by diabetics without increasing their sugar levels. A natural guava tastes like one, so do other fruits. Native grown tomatoes taste much better. Fertilizer and GMO are the two deadly combinations killing the food supply worldwide and are a cause of major diseases. People getting auto immune disease, arthritis, unexplained aches and pains, general fatique and much more. These have no easy cures other than ayurveda. Going back to nature supplied stuff should be next wave of revolution, we don't need green revolution.

[Cyrano]

+108 !

[hanumadu]

I don't think MS Swaminathan created GM foods. He merely created hybrids by cross breeding. The technology was not advanced enough during his times to selectively modify individual genes. Given India's situation there was no other option at that time than develop hybrids.

Otherwise, I agree with bala's post. The goal of hybridization seems to be to increase output or disease resistance and taste becomes the casuality. In India natural foods are slowly but surely being replaced by hybrid varieties though not GM food yet.

In USA, the taste less tomatoes you get are because of making them grow year round instead of the 9 months or so they grow naturally. There are people who preserved the old varieties and grow them in their farms or back yards.

[Cyrano]

Hybridisation has been going on since thousands of years since man started mastering agriculture.

[hanumadu]

Hybridisation has been going on since thousands of years since man started mastering agriculture.

Yeah, but how and why you do it matters. Anyway, my main point was MS Swaminathan did not create GM food.

[bala]

Mankombu (means mud stick) Sambasivan Swaminathan was an Indian agronomist, agricultural scientist, plant geneticist and concentrated in areas such as cytogenetics, ionizing radiation, gamma irradiation and radiosensitivity. Now all these techniques imply changes in genetics. Creating hybrids by cross breeding is also genetic manipulation. M.s. Swaninathan has been involved in controversial authorship papers. The Indian Green revolution has others like Chidambaram Subramaniam, agricultural mantri and Dilbagh Singh Athwal, called the Father of Wheat Revolution.

[Amber G.]

Sad. Om Shanti. .
Deepest condolences on the demise of Professor MS Swaminathan, the legendary agricultural scientist & a key architect of the country’s ‘Green Revolution.

<img> ]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7HEgTjasAA ... name=small <img>
One anecdote: After the nuclear tests of 1998, He said something very telling to in an Indian Science conference "

He was right.

People who have lived through the period of PL 480 during which we were surviving from grain ship to grain ship, never mind that the wheat was red wheat, can better appreciate his contribution to Bharat and food security.

May he attain moksha!

Thanks. Virtually all in scientific field as well as normal decent people are sad. He was deeply respected.


For those who are genuinely interested in welfare of India (and the world) and want to know more about Prof Swaminathan & his work, here is a good thread: by none other than Prof. K. Vijay Raghavan

With M.S. Swaminathan’s passing, we have lost a great scientist. There are many scientists whose life spans roles as researchers, institution-builders, technocrats, policy-makers, and humanists. Swaminathan is unique in doing all of these roles superbly and with élan.

For those who do not know Prof. Raghavan he is Principal Scientific Adviser to Modi. . He is a FRS, Padma Sri, Infosys Prize winner, Associate of the US National Academy of Sciences. A engineer from my alma mater IIT Kanpur, but holds PhD in Molecular Biology and has respect both in USA and India. Certainly more credible than Lahori Logic worshipping crowd among some of the posters in this dhaga.

I am disappointed but not surprised by deluge of some of the posts even in this dhaga by people whose Lahori logic and tendency to trash anything decent in science would make experts in Jihnn Thermodynamics look sane. /sigh/

Meanwhile, When some usual troll asked this Lahori Logic question:

Curious to know what was staple food before green revolution.

A leading control theorist and a FRS, a Distinguished Professor in Electrical Engineering at IIT Hyderabad. Previously Chair of Systems Biology Science at the University of Texas at Dallas. an ex t director of Centre for Artificial Intelligence and Robotics (CAIR), a DRDO defence lab in Bangalore... and whose SUTRA graphs I have posted in BRF repled:

Stravation

[bala]

I don't know how many of you know of Dr. Yella pragada Subba Rao. After getting his Ph.D in biochemistry from Harvard, he joined Lederle Laboratories, as director of research in 1940. At Lederle Laboratories he directed the research that led to the synthesis of folic acid, discovery of tetracycline the first broad-spectrum antibiotic, methotrexate the anticancer drug and diethylcarbamazine the anti-filarial drug HETRAZAN. Subba Row who laid the foundation for the identification of vitamin B12. With Szent-Gyorgy, Subbarow isolated Pyridoxine (vitamin B6) which is used to prevent or treat low levels of vitamin B6. The isolation and characterisation of adenosine triphosphate (ATP), that provides energy in humans. When the body needs energy, ATP is converted into ADP (adenosine diphosphate) and ATP is replenished by phosphocreatine while the body rests. A fungus was named Subbaromyces splendens in his honor by American Cyanamid. Doron K. Antrim observed, "You've probably never heard of Dr. Yellapragada Subbarow. Yet because he lived you may be alive and are well today. Because he lived you may live longer." He died at a young age of 53.

Yellapragada Subbarao was born in an impoverished Telugu family in Bhimavaram district in Old Madras Presidency, now in West Godavari district, Andhra Pradesh. Subbarow obtained a seat at Madras Medical College. He took up a job as anatomy lecturer in Dr. Lakshmipathi's Ayurvedic College at Madras. By chance an American doctor who was touring India for Rockefeller Scholarship noticed him. Subba Row left for America on the ship S. S. Khagar. Even with Dr. Strong's support Subbarow could not secure a fellowship. To survive he took up a part time job of night porter in the Peter Bent Brigham Hospital at a low monthly salary was US $ 50. Subba Row was awarded the Diploma of the Harvard University School of Tropical Medicine on June 1,1924. He got his Ph.D. degree in 1930 and a junior faculty position.

[Amber G.]

^^^ To add: Yellapragada Subbarow is perhaps best known for his work on nucleotide metabolism, which led to the development of chemotherapy drugs to treat leukemia and other diseases. (Of course, his research also played a crucial role in the development of synthetic folic acid and the understanding of the citric acid cycle ..His groundbreaking discoveries significantly advanced the field of biochemistry and had a profound impact on the pharmaceutical industry, ultimately saving countless lives through the development of life-saving drugs.)

Some less known facts, but very noteworthy:
- Role in Establishing the Harvard Fatigue Laboratory: (This laboratory became a pioneering center for research on human physiology and exercise physiology, ) (It is now part of Pfizer)
- Work on Leprosy:
-Development of Aureomycin :One of the first antibiotics effective against a wide range of bacterial infections. His work on the isolation of antibiotics from soil microorganisms laid the groundwork for the antibiotic revolution in medicine.
- Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) Research

Perhaps he is less well-known than some other scientists of his era but his work had a lasting impact on medicine and pharmacology, particularly in the fields of chemotherapy and antibiotics.

----
From what I know: He was honored by Fellowship of the Royal Society of Medicine in UK.
Also (posthumously) Medal of Freedom: from USA. (One of the highest civilian award).

He received Rafi Ahmed Kidwai Award and a few awards from Indian universities, scholarships and lectures named after him. (To best of my knowledge)

[bala]

Yellapragada Subbarow deserves a Padma Vibhushan at least from the GoB/GoI. He is also know for the following:

Isonicotinic Acid Hydrazide against all forms of tuberculosis - this was a disease ravaging USA and this planet.

Polymyxin used in cattle feed

Polymyxin is used for the treatment of gram-negative bacterial infections. The global problem of advancing antimicrobial resistance has led to a renewed interest in their use recently. This combination product is used to treat minor wounds (e.g., cuts, scrapes, burns) and to help prevent or treat mild skin infections. This antibiotic works by slowing or stopping the growth of bacteria.

Trade name Aureomycin of Lederle, Subbarow isolated Aureomycin, the first ever tetracycline molecule and paved the way for modern tetracyclines. These helped to contain and eradicate the Plaque epidemic in India (1994). Chlortetracycline is a tetracycline antibiotic, the first tetracycline to be identified in 1945 – credit shared with Benjamin Minge Duggar. Tetracycline played a historical role in reducing the incidence of mortality because of cholera. It is sold under the brand names Sumycin, Terramycin, Tetracyn, and Panmycin, among others. Tetracycline was the first broad-spectrum antibiotic, that is, one effective against both gram-positive and gram-negative germs. It was more powerful than either Fleming’s penicillin or Waksman’s streptomycin.

All of Subbarow's work was tangible and practical. He quietly came on to the world stage, transformed science and human lives by making a large number of path breaking major discoveries.

BTW Cyrus Hartwell Fiske, Harvard Medical School, supervisor of Subbarow rode on the shoulders. Fiske was being considered for promotion as Chairman of Biochemistry at the Harvard Medical School, Subbarao testified that all the discoveries they had jointly made were due to the ideas of Fiske and he was only a pair of hands. Fiske would not have got the position he did at Harvard but for SubbaRow sharing with him the credit for the method of estimating phosphorus in biological fluids the isolation and characterisation of adenosine triphosphate (ATP). Another fraud from Harvard. Subbarow was denied tenure at Harvard and remained without a green card throughout his life, though he would lead some of America's most important medical research during World War II.

[NRao]

From my collection:

[bala]

Niranjan Rao, my wife is a tulu speaking Rao from Udipi, Karnataka. Remember Witzel of Harvard, the much hated Sanskrit prof who spews Aryan theory. Well, Witzel told Rajiv Malhotra, Infinity foundation, about a text in the library of Harvard. The text was in Dutch and after some scanning, Rajiv noticed that the current Botany text as taught in Europe, surprise, surprise, came from Kerala, India (meaning some Ayurvedic school). The original subject of Botany was taught in India and the Euros copied them in toto. How charming without a pipsqueak about its origin from India.

[bala]

Jagadish Chandra Bose, inventor of radio, was born in Munshiganj, Bengal Presidency, during British governance of India (now in Bangladesh). Bose returned to India after studying in London, to join the Presidency College of the University of Calcutta as a professor of physics. In 1896, J C Bose demonstrated the radio in front of the British Governor General. He transmitted in front of the Governor General and a select audience for more than 3 miles. This distance was from Presidency College Calcutta to Science College Calcutta. Swami Vivekananda advised him along with many of his admirers that he must Patent his work. He did NOT understand why knowledge should be patented and hence ignored this advice.

In 1899, J C Bose, traveled to London and again demonstrated his work in front of a huge scientific committee, in the Royal Society of London. The audience included Lord Rayleigh (the Nobel Prize winner of Physics in 1904), J A Fleming, Professor of London University and Lord Lister President of Royal Society, among other eminent scientists. He was immediately offered Professorship of Cambridge which Bose refused on the spot.

In the audience, there was a chap called Guglielmo Marconi, many people had seen Marconi in the audience too. Bose stayed at a hotel. Bose lost his research papers from his hotel room, including the circuit diagrams. Marconi used exactly the same circuit diagram (coherer with telephone detector) invented by Bose. Marconi could NOT explain how this circuit works. He then gave the lame excuse that a Italian Naval Engineer Solari developed it. Solari when asked to explain, refused point blank and said that he has nothing to do with it. Marconi then insisted that Italian professor Timasina drew the circuits, which Timasina again could NOT explain properly. The next man Marconi had in line was Paolo Castellini, who could also not explain how the circuit works. But Marconi is considered the inventor. Marconi got Nobel Prize for inventing the radio in 1909. How ironic!

In 1915 Nikola Tesla filed a court suit against Marconi for stealing his work. In 1943 after Tesla’s death, the US court reversed the decision and proclaimed that Nikola Tesla is the inventor of radio and NOT Marconi. Another blunder by the US courts.

Vivekananda tried to set matters straight by taking a copy of J C Bose’s work and giving it to his disciple in USA, Sara Chapman Bull, to file for a Patent in USA. Though she filed the application in 1901, the Patent Office granted it only on 29th March 1904 (Patent number US 755840).

J C Bose pioneering works included the following:
Spark transmitters generating polarized sharp beam radio waves at Millimeter wave length.
Sensitive spiral spring coherer for millimeter waves.
Galena detector for millimeter waves, infrared and optical waves.
Dielectric lens for millimeter waves.
Wire grid polarizer for millimeter waves.
Cylindrical diffraction grating for millimeter waves.
Horn antenna.
Wireless radio remote control at millimeter waves,
Measurement of refractive index of dielectric materials,
Measurement of wavelength of millimeter waves by cylindrical grating.
Polarization study by wire grid polarizer.
Total reflection in prism-pair with air space.
Selective absorption in materials.

[Amber G.]

So this was a Nobel Prize Week:

I am sharing a photo challenge from my archive (I posted this photo before here but posting it again)

There are many great physicist in this picture. At least three are world renowned and widely known. Can you identify them and tell us when and where this photo was taken.

Recently Nobel Committee released the name of all nominations (from 1901-1966) including those who did not win the prize. There is one in the picture who was nominated 8 times, another 4 times and the third, the most famous of all, was a polymath, physicist, biologist, botanist and archaeologist, and an early writer of science fiction but is perhaps best known as an Electrical Engineer and father of "radio science" .
Can you identify them..

(Photo Credit: American Institute of Physics - Emilio Segrè Visual Archives)

[Kanoji]

the most famous of all, was a polymath, physicist, biologist, botanist and archaeologist, and an early writer of science fiction but is perhaps best known as an Electrical Engineer and father of "radio science" .
Can you identify them..

The person sitting in the center of the sofa is the father of Radio Science Sri Jagdish Chandra Bose.

[Amber G.]

^^^

The person sitting in the center of the sofa is the father of Radio Science Sri Jagdish Chandra Bose.

Yes! Jagadish Chandra Bose is in the center - polymath, invented the radio before Marconi did. SN Bose - second row second from the left. Meghnad Saha, left of Sh JC Bose!.. That's at least three Nobels in there - in the same frame.

---Others In the above photo (Seated, L-R) Meghnad Saha, Jagadish C Bose and Janan C Ghosh. (Standing L-R) Snehamoy Dutt, Satyendranath Bose, Debendra M Bose, Nikhil R Sen, Janendra Nath Mukherjee and Keshab C Nag.
[/size]
Saha was nominated for Nobel 12 times.

Satyen Nath Bose was nominated 4 times for Nobel Prize - according to recently made public report. Boson (like photons etc) are named after him. Bosons follow "Bose-Einstein Statistics". The other kind of particles are Fermions (like electrons, protons, neutrons etc) which follow "Fermi-Dirac Statics".

Here is another photo a favorite of mine: SN Bose with great PAM Dirac. (I knew Dirac, and attended a course in Quantum Mechanics from him in 70's).

(Photo Credit: SN Bose Archiv)

Here is a story about SN Bose and Dirac = which I posted before but could be repeated :
>>>

Few incidents about the great physicist - from , cardiologist Sunil Bose - his classmate and later his doctor), Bose was omnivorous in his quest for knowledge, and even as a student of physics at Presidency College, he would often borrow and devour books on anatomy and physiology. Chemists would come to him to solve their problems and would leave wiser. Here is an example of his creativity: An “indelible” ink was used in the first Indian general election in 1952 to mark the fingers of voters. He playfully found a solution that could erase the ink mark!

(So much for many ignorant comment we see here is BRF where people claim - just because you are a physicist, you don't know much about other fields_

Bose never bothered to submit a doctoral thesis .. but he inspired a generation of students . One example: In the early 1940s, his student Shyamadas Chatterjee had set up an experiment at the Bose Institute in Kolkata to study the newly reported fission of uranium when bombarded with neutrons. While setting up the experiment, Chatterjee found that distinct counts were recorded even without the neutron source. Puzzled, he reported the phenomenon to Bose, who at once came to the conclusion that it must be due to spontaneous fission. The half-life they calculated, which later proved to be correct, was way above that attributed to Edward Teller. As a result, by order of the institute’s director, whose permission he had failed to obtain, Chatterjee had to withdraw the paper describing his findings. The phenomenon was discovered almost at the same time by Georgii Flerov and Konstantin Petrzhak in the Soviet Union. Chatterjee published his work later and was recognized by the Russian authors.

Another famous story = told by his student - and later published in many places. I have posted that in BRF physics dhaga too. Paul Dirac gave a lecture at the Institute of Nuclear Physics in Calcutta. . As Dirac spoke, Bose, sitting in the front row, appeared to doze off. Writing an equation on the blackboard, Dirac seemed to hesitate and looked toward the white-haired Bose for confirmation. Bose lumbered to his feet, scribbled the rest of the equation, and then resumed his earlier somnolent posture.

After the lecture, Dirac and his wife were ushered into the rear seats of a car, while Bose, Chatterjee, and one other person were about to occupy the front seats. (As it used to happen in India in those days - people will crown in any car Dirac demurred and requested that Bose join him in the back. Quick as a flash came the reply—“We follow Bose–Einstein statistics in front, you should follow Fermi–Dirac at the back!”

Bose’s connection with the swadeshi movement and the names of Manabendranath Roy and Abani Mukherjee. Bose was also a close family friend of Sarat and Subhas Chandra Bose, who were students at Presidency College at almost the same time as S. N. Bose.

[Amber G.]

Jagadish Chandra Bose, inventor of radio, was born in Munshiganj, ..
<snip>

Folks:
There are several inaccuracies and disputed claims in the story above. IMO, there is no need to embellish stories, and diminish others - in fact it makes one look much less reliable.

FWIW:

Inventor of Radio: The assertion that Jagadish Chandra Bose was the inventor of the radio is disputed. While Bose made significant contributions to the field of wireless communication and demonstrated wireless transmission of electromagnetic waves, the invention of the radio is generally attributed to multiple inventors, including Guglielmo Marconi, Nikola Tesla, and others. The development of radio technology was a cumulative effort involving multiple researchers over time.

Marconi's Use of Bose's Work: The claim that Guglielmo Marconi used Bose's circuit diagrams and could not explain how they worked is unsubstantiated. The historical record does not definitively prove that Marconi directly copied Bose's work. Marconi made his contributions to wireless telegraphy independently, and there were various inventors working on similar principles during that era.

Nikola Tesla's Lawsuit: The story mentions Nikola Tesla filing a lawsuit against Marconi for stealing his work. While there was a legal dispute between Tesla and Marconi over radio-related patents, it is important to note that Tesla's lawsuit did not establish him as the sole inventor of the radio. The lawsuit primarily revolved around patent disputes and did not conclusively determine the inventor of the radio.

U.S. Patent: The story implies that Vivekananda's disciple filed a patent for J C Bose's work in the USA, which was granted in 1904. While it is true that J C Bose made significant contributions to wireless communication, the process of obtaining patents can be complex and may not necessarily prove inventorship. Additionally, the story does not provide a complete picture of the patent history surrounding wireless communication technologies.

In summary, while the story presents an alternative narrative regarding the invention of the radio, it includes disputed claims and simplifications of complex historical events.

[bala]

The highest form of proof is working prototype, paper writing etc is not valid proof, we all know that. Chandrayaan 3 craft landing is a great example.

In 1896, J C Bose demonstrated the radio in front of the British Governor General. He transmitted in front of the Governor General and a select audience for more than 3 miles. Gora persons were present. This is way before anyone. Just a demonstration is enough proof (if you have an iota of logic in your brain) Marconi and his cohorts definitely stole papers from the London Hotel - that is a fact. He was unable to explain the circuit diagrams, that is a fact. If we accept the development of radio technology was a cumulative effort involving multiple researchers over time, then Einstein's relativity theory, energy/mass equivalence was also multiple authors (who got it right in terms of equations). We can't have two standards. Nothing is complex in historical terms, it is plain theft (of Marconi) of other people's work. Why would, in 1943 after Tesla’s death, the US court reversed the decision and proclaimed that Nikola Tesla is the inventor of radio and NOT Marconi? Are they stupid? Of course the JC Bose episode was not argued in court otherwise the US Court would have awarded JC Bose as the inventor. Just the US Court decision proves beyond a doubt what a fraud Marconi was.

I am reminded of Ramanujam, many of his scriblings and paper writings were stolen and someone would claim some unknown European came up with similar ideas. There is an entire study on Ramanujam's lost notebook. His widowed wife Janaki amma cried about the premature death of Ramanujam and she believes he was poisoned slowly in London.

The Bose-Einstein statistics has nothing to do with Einstein. It is all Bose. Einstein helped publish Bose's work, which is appreciated, but Einstein did nothing in terms of content. The correct term should be Bose Statistics. The Western/Gora media always want to portray that West aadmi are more clever than others. Phoey!

[RoyG]

Bala,

You bring a unique insight into this issue. I am unfamiliar with the work of Bose and theft allegations. I recall watching a video sometime back about Einstein's plagiarism of Lorentz and Poincare's work on relativity.

[bala]

RoyG, see the physics thread on discussions about Einstein and his plagiarism.

On J C Bose, lots of theft happened in London. I have also alluded to theft of Mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujam's work when he was at Cambridge. Many of his work were blatantly stolen and published in other people's name (mostly Euros). Ramanujam didn't bother since he was way above this nonsense.

[Amber G.]

It ia Bharat Ratna Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam's birth anniversary. Here is one picture:

Quite a few scientists and other notables ... How many can you recognize? Where the picture wast taken?

[Amber G.]

Bala,

You bring a unique insight into this issue. I am unfamiliar with the work of Bose and theft allegations. I recall watching a video sometime back about Einstein's plagiarism of Lorentz and Poincare's work on relativity.

I am quite familiar with SN Bose's work --having taught courses about it in graduate physics level. To put it mildly *never* heard about 'theft/plagirism' allegation from any one other than from conscription junkies.

Einstein's, correspondence with SN Bose, Saha etc are very well documented.
SN Bose's path-breaking paper was not accepted in the journal which he sent. He sent a copy to Einstein, who got it published (in Bose's name).. Bose/Einstein relationship was of mutual respect.

Note that Albert Einstein visited India in 1929. During his trip, he gave a series of lectures and met with several prominent Indian scientists, CV Raman, Saha, Bose ..

One of the highlights of this visit was his lecture at Calcutta University, which attracted a large audience. He delivered his lecture on the theory of relativity. This lecture was attended by these famous physicist.

It is beyond pale that someone would keep dragging these good people's name in mud.

Here is one from the archives (SN Bose and Einstein at work):

[Amber G.]

RoyG, see the physics thread on discussions about Einstein and his plagiarism.

On J C Bose, lots of theft happened in London. I have also alluded to theft of Mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujam's work when he was at Cambridge. Many of his work were blatantly stolen and published in other people's name (mostly Euros). Ramanujam didn't bother since he was way above this nonsense.

It is shameful to keep repeating this kind of nonsensical claims. If there is a *single* documented case of 'theft in London" of "blatantly stolen work published in other's name" please cite it. It is beyond pale to throw mud and insinuate. /sigh/

Ramanujan's lost note book make a fascinating story - encourage people to read about it.

Basically: Srinivasa Ramanujan's lost notebooks were accidentally rediscovered in 1976 by mathematicians George Andrews and Bruce Berndt in the G.N. Watson Collection at Trinity College, Cambridge. These unpublished notebooks contained a treasure trove of groundbreaking mathematical results in areas like number theory, modular forms, and q-series. The discovery had a profound impact on mathematics, leading to ongoing research and exploration of Ramanujan's work, which continues to influence the field and inspire mathematicians to this day.

For those who want to read it, here is a pdf copy of the 'lost notebook' http://iakovlev.org/zip/ram6.pdf

If you visit Erode, the birthplace of Srinivasa Ramanujan, go to the Ramanujan Museum and Math Education Center, you can see lot of his work - and if you ask nicely you may even see it closely.

Also in Wren Library at Trinity College, Cambridge, some of his original notebooks, are well preserved (one can see them) with all his work.

High Definition scanned copy of his entire work, with notes, is published by Tata Institute of Fundamental Research (TIFR) . These digitized copies of Ramanujan's notebooks are available online and can be accessed through the TIFR website or other related resources-- and one can buy it (I have a copy).

Let us honor these great men by studying their work and not by throwing mud on others.

[bala]

If there is a *single* documented case of 'theft in London" of "blatantly stolen work published in other's name" please cite it. ... to throw mud and insinuate ...

This is like asking BritshitStan to admit they looted India and deliberately caused famines, they will never document such statements. Respectfully, please read all the things I have written, digest them, understand what happened and conclude. If you are not convinced I cannot help, since all the facts are presented. Theft happened. If you want a single doc case from the police of London you are living in a fool's paradise, you won't find any. I am done with this topic, please keep your viewpoint unto yourself without bringing your bias into a forum discussion and throwing aspersions like "throw mud and insinuate". All viewpoints are required to uncover the exact truth. Please live with it.

[bala]

On SN Bose and Einstein: I have no issues with Einstein working with SN Bose. However I am peeved with the Western Term Bose-Einstein condensate and Bose-Einstein statistics. It should be SN Bose condensate and SN Bose statistics. For these two topics there is nothing Einstein contributed, he lent support to SN Bose (which is appreciated).

On Srinivasa Ramanujan: there was a YT with his widowed wife ( I can't find it anymore ) which has a weeping/sobbing wife in anguish & pain recounting things which she heard from Srinivasa, many of them in Tamil phrases. She effectively talked about theft of his writings in papers discarded into the waste bin and she alluded to his slow poisoning. Srinivasa was a strict vegetarian.

[sanjaykumar]

In today’s guardian British troops in madras were referenced as ‘peace keepers’ in an article on madras check cloth.

It seems even the left liberal intelligentsia needs sanitised and euphemiszed versions of history.

[Amber G.]

If there is a *single* documented case of 'theft in London" of "blatantly stolen work published in other's name" please cite it. ... to throw mud and insinuate ...

This is like asking BritshitStan to admit they looted India and deliberately caused famines, they will never document such statements.

Nice try but No it is NOT like BritishStan to admit looting India... NOT by a long shot. People like Bose had written correspondence, given lectures, taught students.. so if there was such a case, there would be a documentation and it would be easy to cite it.

... please keep your viewpoint unto yourself

Sorry you feel that way. Most people in my circle - especially students - appreciate learning new things.

I really hope people know more about Indian scientists and appreciate their contribution. The silly conspiracy theories and throwing mud on others is not good.

Anyway.. continue reading if interested in science...

On Srinivasa Ramanujan: there was a YT with his widowed wife...

I don't know about your YT but for interested: One may like this YT - I posted this in math dhaga:

>>>Here is a treat for those who are seriously interested in math and art From Mathematics Museum - it's about 1 hour long but enjoyable - about the movie, about math by Prof Ken Ono - the renowned mathematician who helped with the direction of the movie to make it great.
https://youtu.be/Qvoou69SNGI

Janakiammal - Ramanujan's wife - I have talked with a few people who have seen and interacted with her in person. S. Chandrasekahr was one who is responsible for the famous photo of Ramanujan from her.

(Story goes - Hardy did not have a single good photo of Ramanujan, he asked Chandrasekhar, if he can get one good photo of him when he was visiting India. Chandrasekhar met Janakiammal and among Ramnujans stuff found his old passport - the photo on the passport is the main source the very popular portrait of Ramanuhan. He writes about this in detail in Wali's autobiography of Chandrasekhar.)

Janakiammal's life covered in many books.(Kanigel's book has a long chapter).She died in 1994 and though she lived a very ordinary life (GoI and others sort of ignored her)..many people like us have visited her. (As said before -- know several people who have talked with her - IMO she was a remarkable person)

Bruce C. Berndt is an American mathematician, who is renowned for his work on Ramanujan's mathematical legacy. I have talked about him in math dhaga. He has written several books and papers on Ramanujan's work and made substantial contributions to understanding and proving Ramanujan's conjectures and theorems. He was also instrumental in creating a bust of Ramanujan
(GoI or Madras Govt promised but they never got to it)

The creation of a bust of Ramanujan by Berndt and its contribution to the mathematical community is a symbol of recognition and respect for Ramanujan's brilliance and his impact on mathematics.

Interesting tidbit - Prof Ken Ono (World renowned number theorist - expert on Ramanujan's math -- he was one of the technical adviser for the movie 'Men who knew Infinity' and wrote several bookd about Ramanujan - again I have talked about him in math dhaga) got attracted to Math when his father (a mathematician - friend of Bendt) contributed to that Bust...

I am posting a letter signed by Ramanujan's wife: (The letter was written to Ken Ono's father)

[Amber G.]

Allow me to share a picture from a playground near Ramanujan's birthplace ( Kumbakonam, India). Photo was taken around 2005. Swinging away are world renowned mathematicians - and experts on Ramanujan's work. (Can you guess who ... If not check out the math dhaga for answer)

[bala]

Nice try ... People like Bose had written correspondence, given lectures, taught students.. so if there was such a case, there would be a documentation and it would be easy to cite it.

You conveniently ignore the fact that JC Bose in 1896 gave a demonstration of the radio in front of the British Governor General. The damn Adharmic Britshit who never stood up against the Nobel committee to say that JC Bose was the first to demonstrate a radio. If it had been a Newton chaprasi in Britain he would have been awarded the nobel prize.

Please save your holier than thou lectures!

[Amber G.]

... I have also alluded to theft of Mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujam's work when he was at Cambridge. Many of his work were blatantly stolen and published in other people's name (mostly Euros)....

Instead of obfuscating, cite a single case of Ramanujan's work stolen (blatantly or otherwise) and published in other people's name..what is the basis of such a claim? /sigh/

[bala]

cite a single case of Ramanujan's work stolen (blatantly or otherwise) and published in other people's name..what is the basis of such a claim?

I am not a mathematician. However like the business of Looting from India by BritshitStan, there is no case registered. Srinivasa did not care about this nonsense.

However from anecdotes about Srinivasa's stay at Cambridge private property, there were other jealous people in Cambridge (not the people like Hardy) who started reading the scribblings on paper thrown (garbage dumpster diving in modern terminology) away by Srinivasa. These were given to some people in Euro land to decipher and they promptly published something (I don't have references to give) and someone at Cambridge would broach Srinivasa about such and such paper very innocuously, have you heard about such a result/theorem/etc. Srinivasa could care less. Maybe this prompted Srinivasa to keep a book at Cambridge which became the "Lost papers/book of Srinivasa Ramanujam". The book became a treasure trove. The greatness of Srinivasa, is that he kept notes about new things he envisioned via his favorite IshtaDevata and did not feel it fit to publish them yet. This was WIP (work in progress) but for the current generation provided a gold mine of information.

[NRao]

... I have also alluded to theft of Mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujam's work when he was at Cambridge. Many of his work were blatantly stolen and published in other people's name (mostly Euros)....

Instead of obfuscating, cite a single case of Ramanujan's work stolen (blatantly or otherwise) and published in other people's name..what is the basis of such a claim? /sigh/

I have no dog in the "fight".

Since this is "India's Contribution ...", why would anyone trust a "cite" from a non-Indian? How many "cite" from non-Indians can be trusted?

After all many "cite" have been debunked. The most famous IMO is the Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT). There are many math formulations that are Indian but attributed to the West. So, why would one trust a "cite"?

If you trust "cite" I have no problem. That others have to trust the same "cite" is what I have a problem with.

That you have taught is great. But, that is no standard. The West is no beacon of standards. Far from it.

The PRESIDENT of Stanford is a technical criminal. There are others at Harvard. Bet there are many more.

[Amber G.]

It is odd, that some will consider it a fight and miss the point ..
^^^ Who said, cite has to be from non-Indian?.../sigh/. There are plenty of good schools/scientists in India too...

Even a remark by, SN Bose .... "Oh I did not a get a credit for xxx" would be cite..And remember Prof SN Bose had many students ... one of his student could be a cite. He also wrote many books..and many books have been written about him.

In Ramanujan's case, claims of "stealing his work" without *ANY* basis (only place one sees it this is a brf dhaga) simply silly. (" promptly published something (I don't have references to give).. REALLY???)

Point is, if one makes up silly, nonsense don't expect it to be taken seriously by other people with common sense. Bringing AIT or Stanford or crooks in Harvard' is irrelevant obfuscation.

Anyway, You have a choice - go 'debate' for debates sake - or learn some new things about contributions in Science --- my posts contains lot of information.

----
Added later: I don't know if folks here realize that Ramanujan spent about 4 years at Cambridge.. He published lot of papers before going to England in Indian Journals..and he did some (but very important work while he was ill) work when he returned to India. ..The 'lost notebook' consist of this work which were notes which were mailed from India - not what he did when he was in Cambridge .

[Amber G.]

...I am not a mathematician.

I agree. That is obvious. If there is interest, find a good teacher.

Maybe .... which became the "Lost papers/book of Srinivasa Ramanujam". The book became a treasure trove.

Yes, it became a treasure trove. The story about the book and how it was found is quite fascinating. If one gets a chance, read it.

---
If you have interest in the subject, and not just want to "debate" or simply abuse me... keep reading:
---
When Ramanujan came back to India - he was ill, and would die in a year but he did some great work ( modular forms and mock theta functions among others).. He will correspond with Hardy and others too. His work after his death was sent to Cambridge ( Madras U, shockingly did not make a copy or sent a copy as it should do).. and the work was sort of lost - fall through the crack -- which was later discovered by George Andrews.. He and other mathematicians published the notes - edited and wrote notes etc... all in all a fascinating story.

George Andrew's daughter wrote a very nice children's book about Ramanujan. I highly recommend it.

[NRao]

If AIT is "obfuscation", then nothing else or more needs to be said. Everything else, automatically, is under suspicion. Including "Indian" sources. And, rightfully so.

[Amber G.]

^^^/sigh/
What is obfuscation is 'citing AIT here'... no one was talking about AIT.
Seriously -- Do you even read any of the posts? Do you even see that there is lot of info there? .

[Vayutuvan]

The book became a treasure trove. The greatness of Srinivasa, is that he kept notes about new things he envisioned via his favorite IshtaDevata and did not feel it fit to publish them yet. This was WIP (work in progress) but for the current generation provided a gold mine of information.

bala ji, two things.

George Andrews rescued the book from the box of SR's papers/notes that were languishing in the basement of Cambridge University Library. The he and Bruce Berndt (with whom I had a long lunch once) proved almost all of the stated theorems. One question I asked Prof. Berndt was that "How many of the theoresm he stated were not really theorems?". His answer was very few but he attributed the errors to ambiguity in terminology, i.e. there were no errors in what he claimed to be theorems.

Bruce, I met him on his 78th birthday. He stated that "that notebook was great. I made a career out of it and got advised 10 PhDs over about 30 years of proving all those theorems stated by SR without proof".

So, I don't buy this canard that Srinivasa Ramanujan's ideas were stolen. If anything, both Hardy and Littlewood have to be thanked for making SR a mathematician in thr sense that "you have to state your theorems followed with one or more proofs".

[Vayutuvan]

Since this is "India's Contribution ...", why would anyone trust a "cite" from a non-Indian? How many "cite" from non-Indians can be trusted?

Why wouldn't you trust a non-Indian cite? Please see the above relating my personal interaction with one of the best knwon authorities on Srinivasa Ramanujan's Lost Note Books.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_C._ ... blications

Ramanujan: Letters and Commentary (History of Mathematics, V. 9), by Bruce C. Berndt and Robert A. Rankin (American Mathematical Society, 1995, ISBN 0-8218-0287-9)[9]

Ramanujan: Essays and Surveys (History of Mathematics, V. 22), by Bruce C. Berndt and Robert A. Rankin (American Mathematical Society, 2001, ISBN 0-8218-2624-7)[10]

The Continued Fractions Found in the Unorganized Portions of Ramanujan's Notebooks (Memoirs of the American Mathematical Society), by Bruce C. Berndt, L. Jacobsen, R. L. Lamphere, George E. Andrews (Editor), Srinivasa Ramanujan Aiyangar (Editor) (American Mathematical Society, 1993, ISBN 0-8218-2538-0)

Ramanujan's Notebooks, Part I, by Bruce C. Berndt (Springer, 1985, ISBN 0-387-96110-0)[11]
Ramanujan's Notebooks, Part II, by Bruce C. Berndt (Springer, 1999, ISBN 0-387-96794-X)[11]
Ramanujan's Notebooks, Part III, by Bruce C. Berndt (Springer, 2004, ISBN 0-387-97503-9)[11][12]
Ramanujan's Notebooks, Part IV, by Bruce C. Berndt (Springer, 1993, ISBN 0-387-94109-6)[11]
Ramanujan's Notebooks, Part V, by Bruce C. Berndt (Springer, 2005, ISBN 0-387-94941-0)[11]

Ramanujan's Lost Notebook, Part I, by George Andrews and Bruce C. Berndt (Springer, 2005, ISBN 0-387-25529-X)[13]
Ramanujan's Lost Notebook, Part II, George E. Andrews, Bruce C. Berndt (Springer, 2008, ISBN 978-0-387-77765-8)
Ramanujan's Lost Notebook: Part III, George E. Andrews, Bruce C. Berndt (Springer, 2012, ISBN 978-1-4614-3809-0)
Ramanujan's Lost Notebook: Part IV, George E. Andrews, Bruce C. Berndt (Springer, 2013, ISBN 978-1-4614-4080-2)
Ramanujan's Lost Notebook: Part V, George E. Andrews, Bruce C. Berndt (Springer, 2018, ISBN 978-3-319-77834-1)

Number Theory in the Spirit of Ramanujan by Bruce C. Berndt (American Mathematical Society, 2006, ISBN 0-8218-4178-5)

[bala]

If there is interest, find a good teacher.

Saar, I am IIT BTech (AIR < 75) product, I know math fairly well, also have a comp sci degree - majored in theoretical comp sci. Don't need teacher, but thanks.

BTW I think you are misinformed that people in science are all ethical and honest. Hardly. Using yr language /sigh/ . See below for 1 outstanding example:

crooks in Harvard

Glauber nobel prize stolen from E C G Sudarshan is one of the crooks of Harvard. Harvard should have debarred this crook and nobel prize should have been removed and given to E C G Sudarshan.

[bala]

So, I don't buy this canard that Srinivasa Ramanujan's ideas were stolen.

Vayutuvan ji, I am thrilled that you spoke to one of the good ones in field of math. This is mostly the case (many honest ethical people in Science/math). However there are some rotten apples. On the dumpster diving, I have heard this for not 1 but multiple of my contacts pretty much saying the same thing. The math stuff stolen did not make any headway because the context was unknown and the rest of the community ignored it. The thing was published in some unknown Euro journal which no one reads. Take it for whatever it is worth.