India's Contribution to Science & Technology

[Vayutuvan]

Bala gaaru

I leave a link to a PDF here. This one is open access. Not all MAA articles are open access. but many important ones are.

https://maa.org/sites/default/files/pdf ... 44-656.pdf

[bala]

If you go back into history about science, math and so forth you see the silliness and shaky western foundations. Many of the stories are false. Pythagoras, Euclid etc are figments of imagination. Christianity and, by extension, Church have often indulged in plagiarism and forgery in effort to establish its supremacist and dogmatic doctrine. Prof C.K.Raju has often challenged many "well established" "facts".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBcLc3qLvkE

Unfortunately Indians are too colonialised (education, culture from the Britshits) to follow the brilliant prof CK Raju. Instead they spew vitriol of highest kind. Indian system of thought accepts 'pratyaksh praman' even while being aware of its fallibility (snake being mistaken for rope). The idea of axiomatic proof being superior to empirical is an import from christian theology as science accepts observation, experimentation, testing & evidence all of which fall in the category of 'pratyaksh praman'. If prayaksh or direct observation is fallible then science is not possible. At best we can say science is fallible or falsifiable when a new explanation arrives. Look at the big bang theory and the shambles it is in after James Webb Telescope sightings. Then there are theories on black holes (Steven Hawkings ilk) and such which one can never prove or be certain. Another example: gravity is believed by all students even before they do the pendulum experiment. Many students do not understand pendulum experiment but believed in gravity. Hence sabda praman (word as authority) preferred option especially for science is widely prevalent in today's world. Bertrand Russell wrote a 350+ page proof to axiomatically prove 1+1 = 2. See how tedious it can become. Indians for long used Sabda praman primarily for spiritual knowledge as these were purely subjective experiences which could not be demonstrated to 'others'. Then there is Godel Theorem which states that any system based on axioms has statements that cannot be proven to be either true or false definitively.

[Vayutuvan]

bala garu,

It is estimated that it would take about one trillion symbols to define 1. Look for a paper on Proof Assistants by Gaunthier of Miscrosoft. I don't have the refrence ready at hand.

[sanman]

[Amber G.]

Glad to know - may write some more in this thread but i am overjoyed ..
MS Swaminathan is awarded BHATAT-RATNA!!!!

People who have lived through the period of PL 480 during which we were surviving from grain ship to grain ship, never mind that the wheat was red wheat, can better appreciate his contribution to Bharat and food security.

May he attain moksha!

Thanks. Virtually all in scientific field as well as normal decent people are sad. He was deeply respected.


For those who are genuinely interested in welfare of India (and the world) and want to know more about Prof Swaminathan & his work, here is a good thread: by none other than Prof. K. Vijay Raghavan

With M.S. Swaminathan’s passing, we have lost a great scientist. There are many scientists whose life spans roles as researchers, institution-builders, technocrats, policy-makers, and humanists. Swaminathan is unique in doing all of these roles superbly and with élan.

For those who do not know Prof. Raghavan he is Principal Scientific Adviser to Modi. . He is a FRS, Padma Sri, Infosys Prize winner, Associate of the US National Academy of Sciences. A engineer from my alma mater IIT Kanpur, but holds PhD in Molecular Biology and has respect both in USA and India. Certainly more credible than Lahori Logic worshipping crowd among some of the posters in this dhaga.

I am disappointed but not surprised by deluge of some of the posts even in this dhaga by people whose Lahori logic and tendency to trash anything decent in science would make experts in Jihnn Thermodynamics look sane. /sigh/

Meanwhile, When some usual troll asked this Lahori Logic question:

Curious to know what was staple food before green revolution.

A leading control theorist and a FRS, a Distinguished Professor in Electrical Engineering at IIT Hyderabad. Previously Chair of Systems Biology Science at the University of Texas at Dallas. an ex t director of Centre for Artificial Intelligence and Robotics (CAIR), a DRDO defence lab in Bangalore... and whose SUTRA graphs I have posted in BRF repled:

Stravation

[A_Gupta]

> Pythagoras, Euclid etc are figments of imagination.

> The idea of axiomatic proof being superior to empirical is an import from christian theology as science accepts observation, experimentation, testing & evidence all of which fall in the category of 'pratyaksh praman'.

With such rampant misinformation, India is ready to become Vishva Buddhu.

PS: Apart from watching someone's youtube, what pratyaksh pramaan do you have for all that is written in the above post?

[bala]

^^
Please read Baudhayana's Sulba Sutra बौधायन शुल्बसूत्र in Sanskrit for all that is attributed to pythagoras. The Shulba Sutras are part of the larger corpus of texts called the Shrauta Sutras, considered to be appendices to the Vedas.

The rule stated in the Baudhāyana Śulbasūtra is:

दीर्घचतुरस्रस्याक्ष्णया रज्जुः पार्श्वमानी तिर्यग् मानी च यत् पृथग् भूते कुरूतस्तदुभयं करोति ॥
dīrghachatursrasyākṣaṇayā rajjuḥ pārśvamānī, tiryagmānī, cha yatpṛthagbhūte kurutastadubhayāṅ karoti.
The diagonal of an oblong produces by itself both the areas which the two sides of the oblong produce separately.

The Indus-Sarasvati civilization shows altars, triangles, circles and other intricate geometry structures that without a basic understanding of geometry you cannot create the structures.

On so-called Euclid:
The book, THE ELEMENTS, first English version of Euclid's Elements, 1570 by Charles Thomas-Stanford introduces all the known writings in Greece/Egypt on math (mainly a regurgitation of knowledge from India). Almost nothing is known of Euclid's life. We do not know the years or places of his birth and death. Effectively Euclid is a made up name by a Brit. The Elements is a collection of many of greek Eudoxus's theorems and many of greek Theaetetus. Ancient Babylonians and Egyptians also knew a lot of mathematics, including the Pythagorean theorem.

[Amber G.]

^^^ Responding to above in the math dhaga

[Amber G.]

> Pythagoras, Euclid etc are figments of imagination.

> The idea of axiomatic proof being superior to empirical is an import from christian theology as science accepts observation, experimentation, testing & evidence all of which fall in the category of 'pratyaksh praman'.

With such rampant misinformation, India is ready to become Vishva Buddhu.

PS: Apart from watching someone's youtube, what pratyaksh pramaan do you have for all that is written in the above post?

As I have said before, IMO, People like Prof C.K.Raju are total fraud.

[bala]

Western Bias Against Indian Scientists - The Greats Who Did Not Get Nobel Prize | Ravi Kumar RSS
on Jaipur Dialogues of Sanjay Dixit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_ahDIHaaE0

Ravi Kumar asserts many Indians were not recognized by the Nobel Committee. Many of them include JC Bose, SN Bose, George Sudarshan (he deserved multiple Nobel Prize - one blatantly stolen by a Harvard Charlatan, harvard produces a fair number of crooks, Bill Gates is one, Obummer, etc). George Sudarshan contributed so many pioneering topics - V-A theory, Tachyons, Quantum Zeno effect, Open quantum system, Spin-statistics theorem, non-invariance groups, positive maps of density matrices, quantum computation. Marconi stole radio from JC Bose. Narinder N Kapany who invented optical fiber is ignored and fiber optics is the backbone of fast network. Europe was a racist conglomeration and they still are in pockets.

Most ideas of importance came from Bharat - decimal system, entire math basis (just imagine doing this in Roman numerals! yikes), algebra, trignometry, calculus. In physics Bharat knew long long back about planets, sun, moon, earth motion, reference stars (nakshatras). Arab scholars all acknowledged their source as Bharat. The Christian missionaries stole left, right and center and claimed everything for themselves, stealing is deeply ingrained in their DNA. Newton stole entire Vaisheshka sutra, kerala calculus, infinity series and more.

[Aldonkar]

Western Bias Against Indian Scientists - The Greats Who Did Not Get Nobel Prize | Ravi Kumar RSS
on Jaipur Dialogues of Sanjay Dixit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_ahDIHaaE0

Ravi Kumar asserts many Indians were not recognized by the Nobel Committee. Many of them include JC Bose, SN Bose, George Sudarshan (he deserved multiple Nobel Prize - one blatantly stolen by a Harvard Charlatan, harvard produces a fair number of crooks, Bill Gates is one, Obummer, etc). George Sudarshan contributed so many pioneering topics - V-A theory, Tachyons, Quantum Zeno effect, Open quantum system, Spin-statistics theorem, non-invariance groups, positive maps of density matrices, quantum computation. Marconi stole radio from JC Bose. Narinder N Kapany who invented optical fiber is ignored and fiber optics is the backbone of fast network. Europe was a racist conglomeration and they still are in pockets.

Most ideas of importance came from Bharat - decimal system, entire math basis (just imagine doing this in Roman numerals! yikes), algebra, trignometry, calculus. In physics Bharat knew long long back about planets, sun, moon, earth motion, reference stars (nakshatras). Arab scholars all acknowledged their source as Bharat. The Christian missionaries stole left, right and center and claimed everything for themselves, stealing is deeply ingrained in their DNA. Newton stole entire Vaisheshka sutra, kerala calculus, infinity series and more.

Just a couple of comments. In the west the number system 1,2 .3 etc is called the arabic system. In the Arab countries, it is called correctly as the Hindu system. Apparently, the Crusaders came into contact with these numbers among Arabs during the Crusades and assumed that the Arabs had invented them.

In fibre optics, I had never heard of Narinder Kampany, despite being an electronics engineer. In the UK, the credit for fibre optics is given to Charles Kao and George Hockham of STC a British telecommunications company who I worked for briefly. Interestingly Narinder Kampany did his work at Imperial College which is relatively close to where STC was located and his work predates Kao and Hockham who were awarded the Nobel prize for their work. Kao earned his BSc at University College London while working at STL (a subsidiary of STC) and later returned to Hong Kong.

I was aware of the two Bose scientists. It seems that the Nobel committee had a significant bias against any developments outside the "developed" world.

[Amber G.]

Thanks!

In fibre optics, I had never heard of Narinder Kampany, despite being an electronics engineer. In the UK, the credit for fibre optics is given to Charles Kao and George Hockham of STC a British telecommunications company who I worked for briefly.

I first heard of Narinder Kampay in 1960 or so (I was in high school) with a article on fiber optics in Vigyan , (from renowned physicist Prof. Mehta).. also there was an article in Scientific American about Fiber optics. I wrote several posts about him in this and physics dhaga. (Known his colleagues, family etc, very well).

I was glad that he got honored with Padma Vishshan . See my post in this dhaga here:
viewtopic.php?p=2523312#p2523312

I was also glad to know Dr. Narinder Sing Kapany was honored with padma Vibhushan this year.

(I mentioned him *many* times in Physics dhaga - One of the Indian (/American) scientist who did not get Nobel bud deserved to.



President Kovind presents Padma Vibhushan to Dr Narinder Kapany (Posthumous) for Science and Engineering. Known as the father of fibre optics, Dr Kapany was a scientist, academician, entrepreneur, passionate collector of Sikh art and philanthropist.

(I posted this about a year ago here in Physics Dhaga:
>>Another famous scientist, Narinder S. Kapany, ‘Father of Fiber Optics,’ Died recently. He was 94 years old.
Several times I have mentioned him in Physics or other dhaga's here in Brf about his work.

He never won a Nobel, but was one of the great pioneer/engineer who as a an young Engineer at Cornig did pioneering work to make fiber optics a success. Fortune named him one of seven 'Unsung Heroes' in their 'Businessmen of the Century' issue in 1999.

.

[/quote]
Here is older post, many years ago:
viewtopic.php?p=2305024&hilit=Narinder#p2305024

Contribution by another famous Indian Scientist is in News. - Fiber Optics!

I have mentioned this person's work in Physics dhaga over the years and this article is from MIT's recent @techreview.
(First time I read about Dr Narinder Kapany was an article by Dr M, L. Mehta in Vigyan in 1960! There was a Scientific article too. (BTW I still have the old copy of Vigyan )

Anyway I hope you like the article:



The Indian Physicist who Bent Light

[Amber G.]

I was aware of the two Bose scientists...

Thanks. In this dhaga (or in physics).. please read some interesting posts (and some of rare pictures) of Three Bose's!

Let me post again American Institute of Physics - Emilio Segrè Visual Archive

How many can you identify?..No one won ..but many were nominated for Nobel..

There is one in the picture who was nominated 8 times, another 4 times and the third, the most famous of all, was a polymath, physicist, biologist, botanist and archaeologist, and an early writer of science fiction but is perhaps best known as an Electrical Engineer and father of "radio science" .

[Amber G.]

Allow me to post a story about the other Bose..

In 1920 Mahatma Gandhi had declared the Non Cooperation movement. There was excitement & fervor in the air. A lot of young Indians took part in peaceful demonstrations, across India.
One of those young Indians, was a boy studying Physics in Calcutta Univ. His name was Noni Gopal.
Young Noni took part in a small but loud demonstration against the British Rule, near Elgin road,Calcutta. He was also the person, who wrote the pamphlet against the British Rule, distributed by the protestors that day. Young Noni had his final exams in 2 weeks.
After the peaceful protest - he returned back home and was studying in his room, when Calcutta Police came to Noni’s house and arrested him.

He was duly presented to a Magistrate the next morning and sent to Prison.
Noni missed his exams. A few days later, while being taken to Court for a hearing, with a few other under-trial revolutionaries, Noni managed to escape.

With the help of a few friends, relatives&well-wishers, Noni reached Madras &managed to board a ship sailing to America.
Young Noni Gopal reached Ellis Island near New York with an equivalent of just $5 in his pocket& no identity papers. Those were different days-he was welcomed in.

There was an active community of Indians including the likes of Haridas Gayadeen,Sailendra Nath Ghose,Sarat Mukerjee
And the famous Taraknath Das, of the Ghadar Party in North America - who helped young Noni settle down in Philadelphia.
Noni started a small Radio Repair shop &fell in love with a local school teacher named Charlotte.
She was an American of French-German descent&was interested in Vedanta philosophy.They got married.

Life went well - Noni continued to support the activities of the Indian revolutionaries back home in India.
9 years after Noni escaped from Calcutta Police,
in 1929 - Noni & Charlotte had a son - they named him Amar.

Amar grew up in a household that valued education - as a kid, he loved tinkering in his father’s Radio repair workshop.
Amar went on to study at MIT - and become an assistant professor there after completing his PhD.

As a professor - Amar was granted a few patents in areas including Loudspeaker design, which eventually became the basis of his new start-up.
This small start-up, founded by the son of an Indian fugitive&revolutionary with virtually no money, went on to become a global brand, directly employing over 11,000 people, making Amar the 271st richest man in the world.

His brand was loved by the likes of Steve Jobs
His products are used around the world in Concert Halls, Music Studios and even public institutions like NASA, The Vatican, the American House of representatives and the Parliament of India.
This is the story of Indian Revolutionary, Late Shri Noni Gopal Bose &his son, Late Dr. Amar Gopal Bose of the

Bose Corporation.

Had the British Controlled Calcutta police not jailed a young student of the Calcutta University in 1920 - perhaps the world would’ve never got t

[bala]

IMHO, India needs to come up with its own list of "Nobel prize winners", the MahaVidwan/VishwaVidwan prize. Put together a team of experts in Physics/Chemistry/Economics/Literature/Geopolitics and come with a new list of actual deserving original contributors irrespective of nationality. De-recognize the Nobel list and charlatans like Roy J. Glauber (chutiya par excellence) who blatantly stole Sudarshan's work first by criticizing it and then stealing it point blank. Just don't understand how the US can tolerate such nonsense by one of their own kind. This list is published/made worldwide accessible/marketed and being a VishwaMitra the Global south nations, arab nations, etc will immediately acknowledge. Screw the Nobel committee.

BTW look up Nobel Azerbaijan and see the connection of deep state and the wealth of Nobel brothers.

[bala]

The Glorious Scientific Traditions of Ancient India | Facts of Indian Sciences | Prof. Subhash Kak

Western Education System and the resultant Colonization of our minds have led to the Indian Knowledge System and their Scientific foundations being clearly wiped off from our curriculum. Therefore, in this discussion we have tried to highlight the scientific developments in Ancient India and the Role it has played in the development of Modern Science. A complete recap of many great Authors/Maharishis over 1000s of years. The Arabs recognized that India/Bharat was the leader in science and math throughout the world.

Prof Kak talks about the immense contribution of India towards math and science. People like Maharishi Kanaad Vaisesika Sutra blazed a trail in physics, chemistry, nuclear and many more subjects (all done in BC era!). All Newton's laws are a straight lift from Kanaad with a hilarious tale of apple falling upon the head. Prof Kak talks about Tesla and Vivekananda (matter can be converted to energy), he says before Einstein e=mc^2 was well known, talks about Dr ECG Sudarshan (I have him as the actual winner of 2 nobel prizes not the charlatans who stole his work). Dr Kak talks about consciousness and the Triangle of observer: samanya - universal, vishesha - where the observer is wrt to object, samavaya - observer and observed interact; inherence. These are missing in Western science.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgR4nt7ByfI

Britshit Macaulay who very intentionally broke up the Indian gurukul system by closing down, sacking the acharyas and usurping the system of education in Bharat. What came out is a poor imitation wherein a select few could avail the new fangled Brit Education in Angrez. This caused an instant divide in the Indian society - those who were angrez educated and the rest. Another divide! Today India is reeling from the system which does not really prepare great original thinkers, at most people go through the motion of pretending to learn, rote based exams do nothing and a huge cultural void. I can confidently say the western system adds no value in a person's ability to get gyan and satisfaction. No one remembers any of the equations taught, they cannot derive them from first principles and when the offspring asks a question about their homework the parent is stumped (I did not learn this stuff son/daughter!). Such shallow learning but we have degrees to boast about.