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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015 10:20 
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Gentlemen,

I have been researching on Operation Parakram for some time, I wonder why Operation Parakram was labeled a failure even when it rattled Pakistan (and even the west), another big crib which we keep hearing is the 3 weeks time taken by IA to mobilize etc... I want to revive a discussion on this as this has implication to the options before India even today for retaliating against Pakistan...

Let Roll guys...


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015 13:27 
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My Take

1\ Took so long to move the pieces in place that the West was able to Force a Diplomatic Solution on us. We lost any 'High Ground' we had post the parliament attack.

2\ Even then the Mobilization was half effective for a sustained conflict. Logistics were still not 100% in place and full of holes

3\ We lost some 800 odd soldiers in just Mine Laying ops. A total of some 1500 soldiers were injured or wounded in Total. NOt a single shot was fired in anger. If this alone was not a failure I dont know what else is.

PS. IBTL?


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015 16:54 
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Why is Op Parakram considered a failure? This is one question that would like to have an answer for.


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015 17:50 
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Well, what was real objective of Operation Parakram? I'm yet to find a clear objective that was defined at the start of this operation. It seemed like a knee-jerk reaction.

I like to look at the valuable lessons learnt. Cold Start doctrine came into being and now we are in a better position than then in terms of equipment and placement. Having said that Pakistan has developed tactical nuclear weapons as a counter!


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015 18:10 
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Real Objective was to win UP elections but electorate was unimpressed.


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015 21:14 
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Shrinivasan Sir,

Just curious, there are multiple threads on BRF with debates on this topic. They are very easily searchable.
I found them very informative about the points that you are trying to bring up e.g. key objectives, why it took us so much time or whether or not it was a failure. That said, RohitVats always brings amazing posts, who knows what he comes up with now..
Quote:
Shrinivasan wrote:
Gentlemen,

I have been researching on Operation Parakram for some time, I wonder why Operation Parakram was labeled a failure even when it rattled Pakistan (and even the west), another big crib which we keep hearing is the 3 weeks time taken by IA to mobilize etc... I want to revive a discussion on this as this has implication to the options before India even today for retaliating against Pakistan...

Let Roll guys..


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015 21:44 
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rkhanna wrote:
My Take

1\ Took so long to move the pieces in place that the West was able to Force a Diplomatic Solution on us. We lost any 'High Ground' we had post the parliament attack.

2\ Even then the Mobilization was half effective for a sustained conflict. Logistics were still not 100% in place and full of holes

3\ We lost some 800 odd soldiers in just Mine Laying ops. A total of some 1500 soldiers were injured or wounded in Total. NOt a single shot was fired in anger. If this alone was not a failure I dont know what else is.

PS. IBTL?


Really on BRF what BS. Please see news articles during that time. the LOC was super hot, we used anti tank missiles. Pakistan never came up with its details of casualties. BUT after 15 years of LOC artillery exchanges asked for CEASFIRE on LOC which was agreed in end of 2003. GO figure.

USA wanted Gen Padmanabhan booted out

Musharaf declared LET and JEM terror orgs, it was huge back step for them.

ANd Stop spreading lies like 800 men died in mine laying, majority died in fierce fighting along the LOC when Pakistan never admitted causualties but asked for ceasefire and was crying in front of international journatlists where a convoy of military looking jeeps and trucks destroyed by Indian anti tank missiles in Neelam valley was shown as "CIVILIAN casualties. ONly about 100 killed were in Mine laying

And the operation fizzled out only after a mysterious incident where 59 people were burnt alive exactly 1 day after UP elections ended, 3 neighboring state chief ministers refusing state troops, and many of those convicted persons now have had Pakistani women fall in love and marry them even though they are in jail??

One can just judge by the sheer amount of malicious propaganda by Delhi based media, where 1874 causlties are reported as 2000 killed that it had its successes while it exposed our limitations in dealing with Pakistan. Sadly even though termites were exposed the people of India believed in the Termites.


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015 22:49 
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^^ Adithya_V saar, a request to you in the NGO thread.


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015 23:32 
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1. Op Parakram was the first real threat of full scale war in the Indian subcontinent after Brass tacks.
2. It was the first crisis in the subcontinent with definite nuclear overtones. In a way it was our Cuban missile crisis.
3. If the operation had gone on to a full scale war, it would have blown to smithereens the post cold war order US has been trying to put in place through multilateralism at the UN. It would not have been a war sanctioned by the UN, and therefore, if India won decisively (and this was not in question), it would have legitimized war as an instrument of state craft again.
4. The objective was to coerce Pak to give up the use of urban terrorism against India. To a certain extent, it succeeded.
5. In the absence of 'terrorist spectaculars' which were out of the question after Parakram, the terrorists turned their attention to the less pious among themselves, who were stopping them from major attacks on India, while nurturing them at the same time to be used at a later date.
6. But it did not resolve the use of terrorist insurgency against armed forces in Kashmir or deniable terrorist activities by Indian muslims (IM/SIMI).
7. It also did not resolve the Pakistani narrative of Islamism.
8. It did not solve the political issue of Kashmir by making Pak give up its claim.
9. In a cold number counting, the casualties in Kashmir were running at the rate of nearly 5000 per year when Parakram happened. A much greater number of lives were saved in the subsequent peace in Kashmir than the lives of 1500 soldiers sacrificed in that operation. A humble salute to those who achieved Veergati. They gave their present, to secure our future.

Looking ahead,
10. There is nothing that Indians can do to change the internal Pakistani narrative except be 'the shining city on the hill'. It is a battle for Pakistanis to fight and sort out among themselves.
11. To match the continuing Pakistani pin pricks, the Doval doctrine is an appropriate answer. Enough said.
12. Cold Start is a good deterrent against terrorist spectaculars.


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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2015 02:45 
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BRF has many threads on Operation Parakram.
Eg:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1085

I don't see the need for this thread and will merge them later today.

ramana


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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2015 05:40 
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ramana wrote:
BRF has many threads on Operation Parakram.
Eg:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1085

I don't see the need for this thread and will merge them later today.

ramana

Thanks Ramana... please merge the thread. we can continue the analysis on this thread (you listed above)...
Many new theories are coming up...

One of the most important development in our doctrine following Parakram was Cold Start Doctrine...


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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2015 13:14 
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At the expense of blowing my own trumpet, I realized I had penned some thoughts on the topic in some other context.

If it pleases you, please spend some time reading this:

http://vatsrohit.blogspot.in/2012/08/strategic-importance-south-punjab-and.html#more


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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2015 16:09 
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@Rohitvats- Just went in and read the series of posts. Thank you very much, for putting it down in such detail. Coming out with a whole new perspective.


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