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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 15:15 
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arun wrote:
Some forward movement on Project 17A Frigate programme. DAC has cleared 7 Frigates 8) .
Indian Express


Wikipedia has info that these projects will start only after 2011 when the two shipyards are upgraded. Also how much time will these take to build? As per wiki the first P17 ship will take around 8 years from laid down to commissioning, that seems like very long time.


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 16:03 
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AmitR wrote:
Wikipedia has info that these projects will start only after 2011 when the two shipyards are upgraded. Also how much time will these take to build? As per wiki the first P17 ship will take around 8 years from laid down to commissioning, that seems like very long time.


Well no one can answer you're question about how long its going to take because no one really knows how long will it take. We can only guess based on similar projects worldwide, but even then a lot of india specefic variables might change the time line of this project.

That being said the article above does say something about it and i dont know if you really bothered to read it or not.

Quote:
With the Defence Ministry taking the final call on the matter, the frigates will be manufactured in India and are expected to be inducted by 2021. The project is expected to start by 2011 when both GRSE and MDL complete an upgrade that will allow them to undertake modular construction. The first ship is expected to be delivered 3-4 years after work starts.
- from http://www.indianexpress.com/news/navy- ... s/479132/2


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 18:35 
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Srivastav wrote:
AmitR wrote:
Wikipedia has info that these projects will start only after 2011 when the two shipyards are upgraded. Also how much time will these take to build? As per wiki the first P17 ship will take around 8 years from laid down to commissioning, that seems like very long time.


---

That being said the article above does say something about it and i dont know if you really bothered to read it or not.

Quote:
With the Defence Ministry taking the final call on the matter, the frigates will be manufactured in India and are expected to be inducted by 2021. The project is expected to start by 2011 when both GRSE and MDL complete an upgrade that will allow them to undertake modular construction. The first ship is expected to be delivered 3-4 years after work starts.
- from http://www.indianexpress.com/news/navy- ... s/479132/2


Delivery after 3-4 years in only for the for navy's sea testing just as in case of P17. But the first ship in that P17 design is yet to be commissioned after 8 years hence the P17A will have the same fate.


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 23:10 
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IAI Gets $100 Million Contract for HAROP Killer Drones
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Officially unveiling the HAROP loitering weapon at the Paris Air Show, Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) has announced receiving a contract to supply the HAROP Loitering Munition (LM) system to a foreign customer. Foreign sources hint the customer could be India. The contract is estimated to be worth over $100 million.


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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2009 00:24 
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It is indeed ordered by india. here is the confirmatory link http://www.defense-update.com/newscast/ ... 40609.html


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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2009 04:08 
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AmitR wrote:

Delivery after 3-4 years in only for the for navy's sea testing just as in case of P17. But the first ship in that P17 design is yet to be commissioned after 8 years hence the P17A will have the same fate.


bhai sahab, looks like youve already made up youre mind thats its gonna take 8-9 years. To this i can only say, "have faith".


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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2009 04:33 
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Turkey, I think is the launch customer for Harop!

All 7 of the P17As would be manufactured in India is exactly what I wanted! No more foreign ship design or manufacturing. Consultancy only for foreigners! Desi design desi manufacturing.


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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2009 09:11 
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The P17A project costs 45,000 crore for 7 warships!! That's like $9 billion. Isn't that waaay overpriced compared to frigates elsewhere? More than 5 times the cost of comparable frigates elsewhere!! Where is all the money going?


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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2009 10:50 
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Flight tests for the combined Army and Air Force 197 helicopter LUH tender is likely to commence shortly:

Quote:
Eurocopter to field AS550 C3Fennec for army/air force LUH tender news

20 June 2009

Le Bourget, Paris: Eurocopter will field the AS550 C3 Fennec military helicopter for trials in India's Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) joint tender for the Indian Army and air force. In a previous tender, since cancelled, it had fielded an AS350 civilian version of the helicopter, which had drawn protests from other contenders.

At the Paris Air Show, Norbert Ducrot, Eurocopter's senior vice-president for sales and customer relations in Asia Pacific, revealed that flight tests for the LUH tender were likely to commence shortly.

"This time, we have a military version of the Fennec that is ready to go on trial in India. We are waiting for the instructions and we expect the process to begin shortly. We do not know when a contract will be awarded but we are sure that we have the best product for India," he adds.......................

Of the 197 light utility helicopters sought by the two services, 133 are for the army and 64 for the air force. The MoD expects that deliveries will begin by the end of 2010 after year-long trials.

The contract is worth a potential $750 million. ………………………

Domain B


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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2009 22:04 
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DominicG wrote:
The P17A project costs 45,000 crore for 7 warships!! That's like $9 billion. Isn't that waaay overpriced compared to frigates elsewhere? More than 5 times the cost of comparable frigates elsewhere!! Where is all the money going?

This figure includes the upgrading of the 2 shipyards involved to enable them to construct the P17A on modular design basis which will require 300-400 ton module construction.


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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2009 09:25 
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Quote:
India’s ‘boycott’ costs Denel

Mpumelelo Mkhabela
Published:Jun 20, 2009

Arms parastatal says relations frosty since questions arose over procedure during contract procurement

South Africa’s state-owned arms manufacturer, Denel, has lost R2-billion in revenue after it was “blacklisted” from selling weapons to India. The company plans to seek diplomatic assistance from the SA government to recapture the Indian market.

On Wednesday, the para-statal’s group executive for business development, Zwelakhe Ntshepe, told the parliamentary portfolio committee on public enterprises: “We have been blacklisted, not officially, but the behaviour shows. They don’t invite us to tender, they cancel existing contracts. It’s been going on for the past four years.”

Denel has not received invitations to tender for any Indian government armament contracts since 2005, after allegations surfaced that it had earlier paid “commissions” for a deal to supply rifles………………..........

The Times, South Africa”


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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2009 05:55 
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US firm to provide maintenance for weapons on board Navy ship

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"We have already offered to upgrade the systems on board the Jalashwa to Phalanx 1B configuration, which is the latest version of the system," he informed.

He added that Raytheon is ready to offer the system for other ships of Indian Navy also. The weapon system on board the ship protects it against the threat from incoming missiles and other airborne threats.

Raytheon has signed 13 different MoUs with various Indian companies, including Tata Advance Systems Ltd, to expand its presence in the country's defence market.



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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2009 06:10 
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This may be a flight of fancy...but in the near future may be the DRDO could practically test the phalanx against Brahmos by setting up the target a bit closer to the Jalshawa (within a safe distance ofcourse) and see if the Phalanx can actually track and target the incoming mijjile.... :-?


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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2009 07:49 
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I am not sure phalanx can deal with supersonic crossing targets. maybe the reason why ESSM and RAM is carried + phalanx.


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PostPosted: 25 Jun 2009 04:06 
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From "Web-portal of Ukrainian Government"

Ukraine and India conclude contract on modernization of AN-32 planes to the tune of UAH 3.5 billion

Quote:

Besides, the Premier imparted Ukraine and India are engaged into the project of realization of a huge order of An-74 aircrafts which are to be applied in the system of military-technical cooperation. “Our bail-out program is acting in the direction of revival of the aviation domain of Ukraine,” Yulia Tymoshenko stressed.




Singaporean light howitzers enter India despite ban


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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2009 03:47 
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HAL cancels tender for co-developing medium-lift choppers

Quote:

However, the tender was cancelled as the armed forces' specifications for their requirements in the chopper were changed during the tender process, Defence Ministry sources told PTI.

"HAL will now release the tender again after adding in the additional specifications given by the armed forces and the process is expected to begin in next two months but the schedule has not yet been finalised," they said.



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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2009 20:03 
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India Wants Air-to-Air Missiles for Its Jaguars
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4152656&c=ASI&s=AIR
Old news but different source.
Quote:
India is on a global hunt for air-to-air close-combat missiles along with helmet-mounted displays (HMDs) for the Air Force's British-made Jaguar ground-attack aircraft. Bids for the procurement, valued at more than $100 million, have been sent to MBDA of France, Rafael of Israel, Diehl Defense of Germany, Raytheon of the U.S. and Rosoboronexport of Russia.



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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2009 01:32 
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Israel's eastward march: Arming India

Quote:
Tel Aviv, Israel (UPI) Jun 17, 2009
The day Osama bin Laden's suicide squads attacked the United States, Maj. Gen. Uzi Dayan, who in 2001 headed Israel's National Security Council, was conducting a "strategic dialogue" in New Delhi with his Indian counterpart, Brajesh Mishra.

Dayan's presence in the Indian capital on Sept. 11, 2001, was, of course, pure happenstance. But the events of that fateful day cemented a strategic relationship that has never stopped growing and has strengthened Israel's burgeoning influence in southern and central Asia. Today, Israel has overtaken Russia as India's leading defense supplier.

Both Israel and India, one Jewish, the other Hindu, are locked in deadly combat with Islamist extremists, and after the November 2008 attacks in Mumbai -- India's Sept. 11 -- that killed 165 people, including five Israelis, security cooperation between the two nations has skyrocketed -- literally.

On April 20 India launched its RISAT-2 satellite, built by Israel Aerospace Industries, the state-owned flagship of Israel's defense industry. The craft is equipped with the same multi-spectral aperture radar as the TECSTAR 1 satellite developed for Israel's military.

The launch gave India vital surveillance capabilities to guard against further attacks by Islamist raiders, whose seaborne assault it had not detected. But it also gave Israel an important breakthrough: an Indian satellite that will provide additional surveillance of Iran and its missile-launching zones with its sensors that can take photos with a maximum ground resolution of 1 meter day and night and through cloud cover. {Arun_S: Ahhh Isreali using its own satellite with Indian label }

That kind of spy capability gives India a major edge over Pakistan, and indeed every other Asian state except China and Japan.

Israel has been hampered in its efforts to keep tabs on Iran because, due to the Jewish state's geographical location, it is only able to launch its own intelligence-gathering satellites westward, against the Earth's rotation.

That limits the range of orbits over Iran. Launching from the Satish Dhawan Space Center on the Gulf of Bengal in southeastern India means Israel can launch eastward, adding another dimension to its surveillance of the Islamic Republic.

The 650-pound RISAT-2, delivery of which the Israelis accelerated after Mumbai, also cemented a burgeoning intelligence alliance that has been expanding over the last 40 years -- even though it was a clandestine relationship until India recognized Israel in 1992.

In January India took delivery of the first of three Phalcon all-weather, early warning command and control systems manufactured by Israel Aerospace Industries and mounted on Russian-built Ilyushin Il-76 aircraft under a $1.1 billion deal.

Delivery had been advanced by two months following the Mumbai attacks. The radar systems were built by Israel's Elta Industries.

Negotiations are under way for another three Phalcons, and if that deal goes through it would be the largest defense contract ever sealed by Israel.

As part of the Phalcon deal, the Israelis disclosed on May 22 that they will establish five factories in India to produce artillery shells, a project reportedly worth $250 million.{Arun_S: Not sure if there factories will see light of days now after the IOF bribery scandle }

The Indian air force thus became the first in South Asia with advanced multi-sensor AWACS aircraft capable of providing tactical surveillance of multiple airborne and surface targets and able to gather signals intelligence.

A month earlier India signed a $4.1 billion deal to purchase a shore-based and seaborne anti-missile air-defense system modeled on Israel's Barak long-range naval weapon built by Israel Aircraft Industries.

The new system will be developed with India's Defense Research and Development Organization and will replace the Indian air force's aging Russian-made S-135 Pechora-1 (SA-3) air-defense systems.

In August 2008 New Delhi signed a $2.5 billion contract with IAI and Israel's Rafale armaments company to jointly develop an advanced version of the Spyder surface-to-air missile.


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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2009 03:21 
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Jamal K. Malik wrote:
India Wants Air-to-Air Missiles for Its Jaguars


With Raytheon gettng the contract for MCU integration with the Jags, guess which A2A missile will win?


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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2009 09:06 
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Just about any western missile will work. My money is on the Python-5 especially as they are also shopping for a helmet to go with the missiles and we already use the Elbit helmets. Second choice would be ASRAAM.


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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2009 18:29 
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interestingly, there are relatively few images of IAF jaguars carrying the overwing magic II's. i wonder how much use they have operationally? and with the desire to have more aams, this presupposes a more autonomous role for the jaguars (self defense wise). i wonder of the missile choice will go to those that can be helmet cued behind, and not just IR forward?


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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2009 19:07 
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when push comes to shove either countries could say its the other country's court, and when the shove comes to push, either countries could take stake as to the functions are solely their own.

strategically a classic relationship.


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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2009 21:48 
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abrahavt wrote:
Just about any western missile will work. My money is on the Python-5 especially as they are also shopping for a helmet to go with the missiles and we already use the Elbit helmets. Second choice would be ASRAAM.

wonder if python-5 will become the WVR weapon of choice for IAF beyond the r-73.
given the lack of movement on russsia's part when it comes to WVRAAMs, this is a definite possibility.

if chosen we should look for licensed production.


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PostPosted: 01 Jul 2009 09:32 
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arun wrote:
Quote:
India’s ‘boycott’ costs Denel

Mpumelelo Mkhabela
Published:Jun 20, 2009

Arms parastatal says relations frosty since questions arose over procedure during contract procurement

South Africa’s state-owned arms manufacturer, Denel, has lost R2-billion in revenue after it was “blacklisted” from selling weapons to India. The company plans to seek diplomatic assistance from the SA government to recapture the Indian market.

On Wednesday, the para-statal’s group executive for business development, Zwelakhe Ntshepe, told the parliamentary portfolio committee on public enterprises: “We have been blacklisted, not officially, but the behaviour shows. They don’t invite us to tender, they cancel existing contracts. It’s been going on for the past four years.”

Denel has not received invitations to tender for any Indian government armament contracts since 2005, after allegations surfaced that it had earlier paid “commissions” for a deal to supply rifles………………..........

The Times, South Africa”


I hope Denel is able to get out of the penalty box.


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PostPosted: 01 Jul 2009 09:59 
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Rahul M wrote:
abrahavt wrote:
Just about any western missile will work. My money is on the Python-5 especially as they are also shopping for a helmet to go with the missiles and we already use the Elbit helmets. Second choice would be ASRAAM.

wonder if python-5 will become the WVR weapon of choice for IAF beyond the r-73.
given the lack of movement on russsia's part when it comes to WVRAAMs, this is a definite possibility.

if chosen we should look for licensed production.


IIRC the Python uses ze same motor as ze Derby which means commonality with ze Syder and ze Derbys used by the Jag IMs.

Which Elbit helmets do we use currently :?: The MKI and the Migs have Russian Hamlets (Sura, Sura K :?: ) and the Mig-29Ks have the Top Owl, the Jags dont have a HMD :?: , so AFAIK it would only be the Mi-25/35s using the Yehudi sights.


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PostPosted: 02 Jul 2009 20:04 
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TCS, Wipro, Infy among companies battling it out for Rs 2,000-cr defence deals
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Infotech/TCS-Wipro-Infy-among-companies-battling-it-out-for-Rs-2000-cr-defence-deals/articleshow/4722810.cms
Quote:
TCS, Wipro and Infosys, apart from SAP and IFS Defense, are pursuing contracts worth Rs 2,000 crore from the country’s defense
forces, the Indian Air Force (IAF) and the Army, who are seeking to modernise their processes and become more efficient organisations.


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PostPosted: 02 Jul 2009 23:23 
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andy B wrote:
IIRC the Python uses ze same motor as ze Derby which means commonality with ze Syder and ze Derbys used by the Jag IMs.

Which Elbit helmets do we use currently :?: The MKI and the Migs have Russian Hamlets (Sura, Sura K :?: ) and the Mig-29Ks have the Top Owl, the Jags dont have a HMD :?: , so AFAIK it would only be the Mi-25/35s using the Yehudi sights.


Elbit's DASH is being used for LCA at least for time being.


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PostPosted: 03 Jul 2009 03:06 
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What about the Shar LUSH program/upgrade? Does it use HMS? If so, then it would be Dash 4/5 i guess.

CM.


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PostPosted: 04 Jul 2009 15:15 
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X Posted.

More on the ongoing Vikramaditya nee Gorshkov saga.

Sevmash General Director Nikolai Kalistratov criticises India even after receiving a dressing down by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev:

Quote:
Aircraft carrier blunders

2009-07-03

……………….... Mr. Kalistratov criticized the Indians for having raised their requirements from Sevmash. –They wanted a Lada, and now they demand a Mercedes, he told the President. …………………….

Barents Observer


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PostPosted: 04 Jul 2009 15:33 
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Is the Military Industrial Complex and correspondingly the shipyard so influential and autonomous in Russia, that it needs a reprimand from no less than the President of the country to make it change its ways? From the look of it, Russia looks like a highly centralized state. So multiple centers of power seems unlikely. Or is it just the usual good cop bad cop routine by the bear (eerie similarity to how Washington operates)? Sorry, only questions and more questions.


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PostPosted: 04 Jul 2009 19:34 
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Bhai Log
There is more to it than meets the eye. Prez Medvedev only does what Prez Putin tells him to do. Prez Putin is miffed at Sevmash because his word has lost credibility. Sevmash Director must watch his language in talking with the Prez. Prez Putin has been working feverishly behind the scenes to secure lucrative Indian Nuclear Power Plants Contracts with Iron Clad gurantees of supply fuel, parts and technology. Tangible results are we have signed the Post Nuke Deal Contracts with France and Russia. Kazakhstan agreed to uranium deal with Russian Wink and Nod. The problematic deals are only in defence contracts. Some people in Russian Military Complex are still suffering from cold war hangover. The technical prowess of India is far ahead then what it was 20-30 yrs ago, they are not realizing it. Dorky show ship will come to us much sooner.


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PostPosted: 07 Jul 2009 22:22 
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Defence ministry rethink on blacklisted firms?
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/bus ... 14786.html


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PostPosted: 13 Jul 2009 21:58 
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Allocation of funds for defence procurement


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PostPosted: 13 Jul 2009 23:54 
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Jamal K. Malik wrote:


Why would anyone compare actual utilization figures to revised estimates. They'll almost always be close to 100% of each other as both figures are calculated at the end of the year. They need to compare budget allocation to actual budget utilization for any meaningful comparison.


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PostPosted: 17 Jul 2009 19:12 
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124778767144054747.html

Global defense contractors eager to partake of jump in India's defense spending....

Quote:
Global defense giants are lining up to capture billions of dollars in new orders in India as the country's military modernizes its forces.

A trip by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to India beginning Friday is also raising expectations that the U.S. and India will announce completion of an "end-use monitoring" defense-procurement agreement that could streamline contracts between companies from the two countries.

Western companies could face hurdles in winning the Indian contracts, however. The Indian government earlier this month said it hopes to reduce imports to 30% from the current level of more than 70% in 10 years to foster a homegrown defense industry.

"We would like to see India become a vibrant manufacturing hub," said Sitanshu Kar, a spokesman for the Ministry of Defense.

India's capital defense expenditure is set to grow 12% in the year ending March 31 to $11.4 billion. Indian officials said they will spend an additional $565 million this year to boost border security and modernize its police force to fight terrorism.


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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2009 02:59 
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Army chief to Antony: Don't block gun trials


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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2009 18:34 
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VinodTK wrote:


Quote:
Asked to confirm, BAE Systems India President, Julian Scopes told Business Standard by email, “In the tender for ultra-light howitzers, there were requirements in the [tender] that made it difficult for us respond in the time available. But we remain hopeful that M777 can be considered and continue to point out to the MoD that the BAE Systems M777 is the lightest 155mm howitzer in the world, in service with the US Army, US Marine Corp and Canadian Army, and the only one that is combat proven.”


So Bofors remains unproven after firing thousands of shells during Kargil war? I wonder if they ever used the BAE howitzer in a scale comparable to that fateful night of lighting up the sky over Tiger Hill.


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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2009 19:28 
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JTull wrote:
VinodTK wrote:


Quote:
Asked to confirm, BAE Systems India President, Julian Scopes told Business Standard by email, “In the tender for ultra-light howitzers, there were requirements in the [tender] that made it difficult for us respond in the time available. But we remain hopeful that M777 can be considered and continue to point out to the MoD that the BAE Systems M777 is the lightest 155mm howitzer in the world, in service with the US Army, US Marine Corp and Canadian Army, and the only one that is combat proven.”


So Bofors remains unproven after firing thousands of shells during Kargil war? I wonder if they ever used the BAE howitzer in a scale comparable to that fateful night of lighting up the sky over Tiger Hill.


They are talking about ultra-light howitzers


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PostPosted: 20 Jul 2009 01:57 
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HAL looking for global partner to design trainer aircraft - Ravi Sharma

Quote:
BANGALORE: Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has decided to rope in an international partner for the design and development of the much needed ab initio turbo trainer for the Indian Air Force (IAF) and the Navy.

The public sector aerospace company has sent out a request for information (RFI) to a number of companies that have designed and manufactured basic turbo trainers, including Embraer (for their Tucano), Pilatus (PC-21), Raytheon (T-6 Texan), Finmeccanica (M-311), Grob Aircraft Company (G-120TP) and Korea Aerospace Industries (KT-1).

The RFI is for 200 aircraft, with HAL being the sole worldwide manufacturer. The trainer, which will be named Hindustan Turbo Trainer-40 (HTT-40), will replace the HAL-designed Hindustan Piston Trainer-32 (HPT-32) Deepak, an aircraft which has been used by the IAF and, in smaller numbers, the Navy for their primary pilot training since 1984. But the reliability of the HPT-32 has always been in question.

...
The IAF is hopeful that HAL will come out with a replacement for the HPT-32 by 2013-14 and has indicated its qualitative requirements: a trainer with good spin characteristics, a reliable turboprop engine, an ejection seat, a glass cockpit, a retractable undercarriage, modern navigational equipment and global positioning system. The IAF would also like an interchanging of the trainer’s cockpit layout with the instructor seated on the left and the trainee pilot on the right.
...


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PostPosted: 20 Jul 2009 03:02 
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Regarding the Trainer RFP.. An Extension of the basic trainer could be a very effective COIN weapons platform. like the Super Tucano.

Image

Apparently SOCCOM is testing out the Super Tucano to suplimment their Spectres and Apaches.


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