J & K news and discussion

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 23 Jan 2011 21:18

why is there so much opposition to the unfurling of our own flag at lal chowk.
why there is active participation of state to deny this fundamental right for every Indian on jan 26.
GOI Nc and commies etc talk of violence. but they dont talk so vehemently against the terrorists as they do for Indians.
They talk of divisive agenda when it comes to Indians who want to hoist the flag.
The same Govts at state and central level did not use its might to stop unfurling the pakistan flag. Did the same KM who talk of stopping the current yatra ever stop the pakistan flag. did the govt organise a protest against unfurling of pakistan flag. this is not alienation as some claim. If you are Indian you may have grouses but you dont cross the line of not supporting our own flag.
Are Indians inferior and communal that they dont deserve the right. Is pakistan flag and terrorists more dear to the govts than us.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Jan 2011 21:20

With Pakistan being responsible for supporting separatists, we should recapture Lal Chowk from them. It will show who actually owns Lal Chowk. Pakistan or India. It will send a strong signal to the world.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 23 Jan 2011 21:26

Oxygen of publicity-

some say that unfurling of Indian flag will unleash oxygen of publicity to the terrorists by making front page news violence etc.

Did not the unfurling of pakistan flag at lal chowk last year give oxygen of publicity to the terrorists. Where was this sense of outrage then. why selective targetting of Indians only.

Why cant oxygen of publicity do the other way--

By unfurling the Indian flag it gives the Indians that J&K is ours and we can unfurl our flag anytime we want. No power on earth can wrest it from us. it sends message to the terrorists not to mess with us. All Indians will become more aware of it. They will support all the more. J&K will be lost only when internally we cant be united
we all have to think alike in these issues.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 23 Jan 2011 21:33

If J&K is a integral part of India why cant the govts both at centre and state make videos of unfurling of the Indian flag at lal chowk. i cant find any youtube videos related to it. why cant the govts unleash a propaganda against the yatris saying that Indian flag is unfurled every year officially and the videos are here. the conniving media can do round the clock reporting and play the videos till it defeats the yatra. at least common Indians will be assurred that we can unfurl the flag in our own land. It also send message to terrorists that we are doing it every year.
why should some Indians have to force them by taking out this yatra.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Jan 2011 21:34

krisna wrote: By unfurling the Indian flag it gives the Indians that J&K is ours and we can unfurl our flag anytime we want. No power on earth can wrest it from us. it sends message to the terrorists not to mess with us. All Indians will become more aware of it. They will support all the more. J&K will be lost only when internally we cant be united

Yes I agree. There is doubt in the aam aadmi's mind that J&K is not part of India. This will be dispelled in one go in 2 days time.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Jan 2011 21:46

This one also started moving with posts highlighting the yatra.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Jan 2011 21:54

Ajatshatru wrote:sell land in Kashmir at concessional rate to retired armed forces personnel and encourage them to settle there

Why armed forces people? This was a Paki plan in Pakjab and I must say I thought it was a bad idea. It sounds like "OK - you are faujis - you are kshatriyas, fighters. So you settle down far away from your extended family so that you can continue to face the music in a lousy place. We will give it to you cheap because we ain't got the guts to settle there." Why not settle all those BJP activists who were turned back to Karnataka last night. Those guys will never sleep again and will serve as great guards of our nation.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 23 Jan 2011 21:59

Omar Abdullah's tweet

Kashmir's blurred lines - 2 arrested for stone pelting in Summer are now arrested with BJP flags & leaflets. Interesting times; good night.
8 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 23 Jan 2011 22:08

Flag issue: Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front chief goes into hiding

Apprehending arrest ahead of their proposed march to Lal Chowk in Srinagar on Republic Day, Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) chairman Mohammad Yaseen Malik and his close associates today went into hiding.

"With police raiding several places to arrest JKLF leaders and activists, Yaseen Malik and his associates have gone into hiding to avoid arrests," a JKLF spokesperson said.

The JKLF has decided to stage a march to Lal Chowk, the city's commercial hub, to counter BJP's plan to hoist the tricolour there on January 26.

important fall out, the bandicoots are doing what is there favorite past time. Govt forced to take action.
more power to the Indians.
Are the JKLF really Indians who belive in Indianness or terrorists wanting to secede from India. Do these rats deserve our support esp the state and central govts.
why does the terrorism thrive in J&K and elsewhere. it is because of the support given by the secular parties for votes.
shame on them.
Only hope is aam aadmi to be more assertive and demand what is their fundamental right. I pray to god that there should be a huge amount of publicity and videos of Indian flag unfurled at lal chowk without violence. Also the secular parties come to their senses and unite to fight together against these terrorists despite their differences.

Hope more and more bandicoots are rounded up and their supporters are marked out.
let the outside powers and terrorists handlers knew this.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 23 Jan 2011 22:13

Ajatshatru wrote:I want to share an incident told to me by my KP friend. Once during Jagmohan's tenure, KMs of a particular area were refusing to pay their electricity bill (for no particular reason....other than, perhaps, as a result of years of mollycoddling/pampering?). Jagmohan instructed the entire regions electricity supply to be stopped indefinitely till they did so. Within record time, the KMs paid their pending electricity bills.

I have several examples like that and I WILL NOT share here. The bottomline is very simple and irrespective of the spin that goes on and on, the thing that works is "do not pamper to those who are pure and simple against India's national interest." Just take them head on and things will fall in place.

We can see the results from India's context in several other areas too. ULFA was extremely violent for a long period. India started taking it head on. What is ULFA now? India has conducted operations using Burma, Bangladesh and also Bhutan to smoke them out.

I am not trying to compare JK with ULFA. The complexity in JK is several notches more than anything else with all the global powers wanting a piece of the pie in it.

However, we have a goverment that is not only pampering to JK's vermin but also pampering to the wants and needs of other powers. I will bet if other powers are not involved, the goverment would have strategised quitely and allowed the BJP to unfurl the flag and also ensure that the BJP does not get even a shred of advantage politically. Congress party has that much of abilities.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 23 Jan 2011 22:14

^^^^
Now the govt is forced into action to prevent violence.
why did not they do it last sept 2010 and prevent the violence. why did not they organise massive protests against the terrorists. the terrorists got massive amount of publicity and Indian security forces got a bad name going by the media. media did not give a correct account of the happenings. the govt could have made sure that media highlighted the events correctly.
who is supporting the terrorists- of course I dont expect the resident posters here to answer the questions.

More power to ordinary Indians.
Jai Hind.

sum · Post by **sum** » 23 Jan 2011 22:15

ravi_ku wrote:Omar Abdullah's tweet
Kashmir's blurred lines - 2 arrested for stone pelting in Summer are now arrested with BJP flags & leaflets. Interesting times; good night.
8 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone

Not sure what the great prince of J&K is suggesting...that BJP organized the stone pelting?

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 23 Jan 2011 22:20

RamaY wrote:
ravi_ku wrote:<rant of heighest order>
Hey, saying Arunachal Pradesh hurts the sensitivities of the chinese.

How dare you, dhoti clad SDRE include it in core interests when the tallest and deepest friend doesnt like it?
</rant>
This is exactly what a liberal audience said in that Undtv debate and he didn't want to do that.

So no one should talk about any issue of national interest as it would upset someone or other. That is the mode of governance INC brought.

They dont want to do anything except looting the nation as it would upset people.

Where is the banging of head icon?

Archan ji,

Seems like in my attempt at sarcasm, I have stated the truth.
We are further down the drain than I thought.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 23 Jan 2011 22:23

Senior J&K BJP vice president arrested in Kashmir

Senior state vice president of the Bhartiya Janata Party (BJP) Sofi Yousuf was taken into preventive custody by the police here last night.
The arrest of Mr Yousuf came a few hours after the police arrested six BJP activists from Lal Chowk area when they were distributing some posters.

of course the posters did not contain pakistan flag or terrorists agenda.

If you recall the lal chowk was full of terrorists/traitors last year and the whole area was painted in non Indian colours and flags. The govt condoned the violence and security forces were blamed for it. how convenient of them.
who is politicking with Indian interests. who is showing communal colours.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 23 Jan 2011 22:24

Muppalla wrote:... I will bet if other powers are not involved, the goverment would have strategised quitely and allowed the BJP to unfurl the flag and also ensure that the BJP does not get even a shred of advantage politically. Congress party has that much of abilities.

you know..these trains being diverted....INC still has this card up their sleeves....It'd be brilliant if Yuvraj unfurls the Tricolor with OA saluting it in Srinagar on 26th Jan....all that hooplah by BJP will be hijacked by INC....but PM saying don't create divisive politics don't fall in this line of thinking...

partha · Post by **partha** » 23 Jan 2011 22:30

From twitter: 2 of the 6 BJP activists arrested in Lal Chowk were stone pelters last summer!

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 23 Jan 2011 22:43

A break in 20-year-old tradition- No hoisting of Tricolour at Srinagar’s Lal Chowk
dated article 2010 jan 27.

In a significant departure from a government practice, embattled security forces did not hoist the National Flag at the historic Lal Chowk here on Republic Day, a ritual that had been observed without break for the past 20 years.

Amid tight security cover and a separatist sponsored general strike, the Republic Day functions passed off peacefully in Kashmir. The general strike and the tight security arrangements paralysed normal life in the Valley. But what was striking was that the tricolour was not unfurled on the clock tower, popularly known here as “Ghantaghar” in Lal Chowk on Republic Day and Independence Day since 1991. On January 26, 1992, the then BJP president Murli Manohar Joshi had hoisted the National Flag at Lal Chowk, marking the end of his 46 day-long “Ekta Yatra.”
Consequently, Governor N N Vohra unfurled the national flag at Moulana Azad Stadium in Jammu where he asked the militants to shun violence and join the peace process.

look what is happening.
The national flag was unfurled for 20 years --yes from 1991 onwards after the ekta yatra from the very same BJP. last year it was stopped
why what is the reason.
Now it is against the flag hoisting.
The peace is better now than in the past 20 years. what is cooking now compared to the previous years.
there are allegations that P5 came to India with the solution of J&K in mind also. what is the track diplomacy or whatever it is called. is aman ki tamasha a parto fthis process trying to soften Indians.
why cant the govt come clean on it.

J&K is ours and we have passed the parliamentary resolution to that effect. who did it-- PVN the non congress PM(he is not given recognition officially by congressis/secularists). it is just a piece of resolution without any real strenght to it.

Only when boots are on the ground and ordinary Indians fill J&K will it become a reality.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 23 Jan 2011 22:57

So it was a lie that lal chowk was not the place where govt used to unfurl the national flag.

Damn these people are born liars.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 23 Jan 2011 22:58

A 'minor' symbol of nationalism in Srinagar
Now what is lal chowk and why is it significant. why does OA say that he will unfurl at different place(bakshi stadium) and not at lal chowk.

lal chowk is the name given after red square of moscow. it is in the heart of srinagar.

In fact, any organisation that announces hoisting a flag at Lal Chowk ends up unfurling it on the clock tower. Lal Chowk, a business hub, is named after the central marketplace in Moscow - Red Square. Local historians say it was some enthusiastic communists who thought up the name after Lenin seized power in Moscow in 1917. They say Sheikh Mohammed Abdullah, an admirer of socialism, gave the square the name Lal Chowk.
In 1980, Bajaj Electricals raised the clock tower in the middle of Lal Chowk. "It served as an advertisement for Bajaj in Srinagar," Farooq Ahmad Shah, director- tourism, said.

Flag hoisting at Lal Chowk began at the height of militancy in the state in 1991 when BJP leader Murli Manohar Joshi took out the ' Ekta Yatra' from Kanyakumari to Srinagar, ostensibly to symbolise India's assertion in an area where Pakistani flags were seen as a grim reminder of separatists' defiance.

My salute to the Indians who unfurled the tiranga. .

On June 27, 2008, when Kashmir erupted against the transfer of forest land to the Amarnath shrine board, thousands of people hoisted scores of green flags on the tower.

Not just green flags, the author is shy of saying it is pakistan flags.

Lal chowk is the place to unfurl the national flag and not bakshi stadium or maulana azad stadium where the govt does its customary salute.
lal chowk is the area of separatists/traitors. it is a fantastic idea to unfurl the flag since 1991. it is a grim constant reminder to the traitors that we are in control of the J&K.
Hope youtube videos are released to the unfurling of this event.
I want the flag to be hoisted come what may.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 23 Jan 2011 23:10

One of the reasons why BJP wanted to do the flag raising at lal chowk is simply the following-
flag raising continued uninterruptedly since 1991 was stopped last year by the secular govt in exchange for ???????
hence to prevent discontinuation of the important event and ascendancy of terrorism. by demonstrating the commitment to hoist the flag. it has brought back the spotlight on its importance which no media will inform common Indian. It has given the oxygen of publicity to nationalism.
1991 was a bad period at height of militancy when they unfurled the flag. why they chose lal chowk -read this http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 2#p1016322

Quote:
Flag hoisting at Lal Chowk began at the height of militancy in the state in 1991 when BJP leader Murli Manohar Joshi took out the ' Ekta Yatra' from Kanyakumari to Srinagar, ostensibly to symbolise India's assertion in an area where Pakistani flags were seen as a grim reminder of separatists' defiance.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 23 Jan 2011 23:16

lal chowk in heart of srinagar city during curfew.

I want to see Indian flag flying there.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 23 Jan 2011 23:31

Three colours of retribution. Saffron, red and green

It is the history of Lal Chowk that gives the Clock Tower its political stature. Lal Chowk was named in the socialist spirit after Red Square, the famous landmark in Moscow. Local historians believe that National Conference founder Sheikh Abdullah christened the square Lal Chowk.

It was in Lal Chowk that Abdullah announced his love for Jawaharlal Nehru and India in a Persian couplet saying the two of them had become one. It was here on 2 November 1947 that Nehru,standing beside Abdullah, addressed thousands. “The fate of Kashmir will ultimately be decided by the people. We have given that pledge and Maharaja (Hari Singh) has supported it. It is not only a pledge to the people of Kashmir but to the world. We will not, and cannot back out of it,” promised Nehru.

That speech laid the political foundations of Lal Chowk and the eventual ‘betrayal’ added to its symbolism.

The Clock Tower gained political significance in 1992 when the then BJP president Murli Manohar Joshi came to hoist the Tricolour atop the tower on Republic Day. Joshi’s move brought several militant groups together, uniting them against India.(it brought the bandicoots together) With Kashmiris locked inside their homes, Joshi hoisted the flag in the company of soldiers. He had to be whisked away in haste when a rocket fired by militants landed some metres away from the tower.

Since then, the BSF and the CRPF undertook the hoisting ceremony until last year when they announced it was unnecessary to continue the ritual because the tower “had no political significance” (read below for the real reasons)and an official function was held at the nearby Bakshi Stadium on Republic Day and Independence Day anyway.

1)However, the order to stop the flag hoisting at Lal Chowk reportedly came from Chief Minister Omar Abdullah, who was struggling against the summer protests and saw it as an unnecessary provocation to the separatists and people.

Now, with the BJYM planning to march into the heart of Srinagar, JKLF chief Yasin Malik has dared them to hoist the flag. Hurriyat (M) chairman Mirwaiz Umar too has supported Malik. For the duo, sidelined during last year’s protests, this issue could be their ticket back to relevance.

2) Omar, whose fortunes had nosedived after the 2009 Shopian rape case and the deaths of 117 civilians in last year’s protests, has opposed the BJYM plan. He is also counting on this issue to rehabilitate his tattered image.

with this type of secular CMs it is a miracle india is still holding onto J&K. salute to all the brave ordinary Indians and defence personnel.

who is politicking on this issue now.
No need to ask the resident posters.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 23 Jan 2011 23:40

BJP talks as if the Indian national flag is not unfurled anywhere in Kashmir! Come 26th it is unfurled at the Bhakshi stadium? Why are people ignorant about that?
it was under ABV support that we started talking with Hiz bul, we also spoke to Hurriyat? No flag march was undertaken during ABV`s rule? why ? then is it important today? People like V S malik and B Raman have said no to it. But still? Are these guys anti nationalists by ur standards? Hurl the nation into a war, happy! when there are 400 million people who are still not benefited because of Independence! Bonapartism, in a multi cultural nation like India, is costly and bound to fail. And to end, Did BJP for all the crocodile tears it sheds for KP`s, ever try to bring them back to valley? Do not speak as if BJP is the only alternative. We in South India, have witnessed the kartoot of the first ever BJP ruled state in south. If Nitin Gadkari goes to the extent of saying" Yediyurappa did nothing illegal, but he was immoral",( morality? and yeddy, we know what he was hinting at, we can only laugh) we can understand the depth of the stink. There was another gentleman here, who was talking about taking on China in Tibet? Recovering Aksai chin? Recovering shaksgam valley from China? Darling angel, i will go to the church tomorrow and light a candle , praying for you.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 23 Jan 2011 23:44

Lal Chowk: Tiranga betrayed

dated 27 jan 2010.
why did BJP do it this year.
last year for inexplicable reasons the govt suddenly decided not to unfurl the flag catching everyone unawares.

The present Chief Minister, then a Member of Parliament, in his by now famous speech had asserted that he was a Muslim and he was an Indian. ( Imagine the secularists reaction if anyone had said I am a Hindu and I am an Indian)He had said that not even an inch of land would be given.

Is this a pointer to an emerging pattern, where the Union Home Minister favours secret parleys with secessionist and separatist forces? Was this disregard done to please these very elements? What is the Government up to? Is it another symbolic tactic to distance Kashmir from India?

Or is Ghanta Ghar (clock tower) Lal Chowk not India at all; has it been handed over to Pakistan and Islamic terrorists?

All along, the separatists and other terror-supporting forces have been against the Indian flag flying from this clock tower, and at the peak of terrorism the Pakistani flag would often be hoisted over it. The then BJP president Murli Manohar Joshi hoisted the flag at very clock tower on 26 Jan 1992, amidst rocket attacks at the venue, for this very same reason.

But today even the BJP is mum at this national sacrilege. Is this silence in acceptance of the separatists’ demands or self-rule and the erosion of Indian sovereignty in Jammu & Kashmir? Recently, BJP think tank Syama Prasad Mookerjee Research Foundation invited a supporter of PDP’s demand for self-rule at a function to observe Exodus Day on Jan. 19!

The signals emanating are clear and an alarm bell for the country to recognize another conspiracy.

hence this years significance and send a message to the govts and terrorists that we will hoist the flag.

The Flag : the tricolour, the ‘Tiranga’, symbol of the nation, representative of the pride of the country and the valour of our Security Forces who are ready to shed their blood for the dignity, defence, and sovereignty of this very Nation under this very Flag.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 23 Jan 2011 23:46

menon s wrote:BJP talks as if the Indian national flag is not unfurled anywhere in Kashmir! Come 26th it is unfurled at the Bhakshi stadium? Why are people ignorant about that?
it was under ABV support that we started talking with Hiz bul, we also spoke to Hurriyat? No flag march was undertaken during ABV`s rule? why ? then is it important today? People like V S malik and B Raman have said no to it. But still? Are these guys anti nationalists by ur standards? Hurl the nation into a war, happy! when there are 400 million people who are still not benefited because of Independence! Bonapartism, in a multi cultural nation like India, is costly and bound to fail. And to end, Did BJP for all the crocodile tears it sheds for KP`s, ever try to bring them back to valley? Do not speak as if BJP is the only alternative. We in South India, have witnessed the kartoot of the first ever BJP ruled state in south. If Nitin Gadkari goes to the extent of saying" Yediyurappa did nothing illegal, but he was immoral",( morality? and yeddy, we know what he was hinting at, we can only laugh) we can understand the depth of the stink. There was another gentleman here, who was talking about taking on China in Tibet? Recovering Aksai chin? Recovering shaksgam valley from China? Darling angel, do you think people in this forum, are ur party faithfuls, happy, for the free trip to the city, 250 rupees , chicken biriyani and a quarter of XXX rum, nodding and clapping to everything u say?

Menon please go thru my posts and you will find the answer.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 23 Jan 2011 23:46

Couple of tweets from Rajagopalan (a journalist based in Delhi)

Congress leaders privately confide BJP national flag at Lal Chowk is an answer to Saffron Terror. Union Home Ministry did a Telangana-repeat

Eight top BJP leaders leave Delhi on Monday when they land in Srinagar will be arrested by JK Police.To hoist national flag at Lal Chowk

Kanchan Gupta

Congress is desperate to halt Tiranga at Lal Chowk because MMS feels it will upset his 'friends' in Washington and Islamabad.

hmm... That means this is just not BRF's jingoistic theory.

Alternative views from B.Raman

All of U repeat same thing again & again. It is not as if there is going to be no flag-hoisting in Srinagar.Govt. is having usual one.Join.

These r all delicate issues. We must deal with them with intelligence & delicatesse . U pressure BJP leaders not to create another crisis.

@ @BDUTT It will be very unfortunate. They will be playing into the hands of the separatists and unlawful elements. Wiser counsel shd prevail.

BJP is like the old Bourbon kings of France. Nothing to learn, nothing to forget.

U can have flag-hoisting only in a place that belongs to you.

I have been saying from beginning that BJP was wrong to have embarked on this confrontation. If it is wise, it will call it off.

Jindal got the right to fly the flag in a private place any day, any time.His petition did not claim the right in a public place.

BJP shd not make this a prestige issue.It shd realise that there is still insurgency in J & K.

I can't go & hoist the flag in centre of Vijay Chowk. Can be arrested.

Right absolute only in respect of private places and private transport.GOI & State Govt shd maintain order.GOI has done its home work well.

No absolute right to hoist flag in a public square. Curbs can be imposed to maintain public order.

BJP is unnecessarily looking for a confrontational situation. It must be prevented

GOI is right in stopping trains with BJP cadres from going to Jammu

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 23 Jan 2011 23:47

Wow!! simply wow!!

I have seen the exact same argument as menon s, "How can you do ---- when 500 million are dying due to hunger"

now replace ---- with
1) build rockets
2) have army
3) build aircraft carriers
4) build nukes
5) explode nukes
6) build buildings
7) build roads

and than tha da..., the latest addition
1000000) unfurl the national flag

Edit: Of course the same argument never comes into picture when 1.76 lakh crores are eaten up or commonwealth scam or when Rajmata and pawar eats up the sugar and onions or when making the nuke deal or god forbid get money back from swiss banks

Edit2: Archan ji, I give up. I cant think how any one can deal with these kinds of logics without a very very high dose of sarcasm

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 23 Jan 2011 23:48

sum wrote:
ravi_ku wrote:Omar Abdullah's tweet
:Kashmir's blurred lines - 2 arrested for stone pelting in Summer are now arrested with BJP flags & leaflets. Interesting times; good night.
8 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone
Not sure what the great prince of J&K is suggesting...that BJP organized the stone pelting?

Well its a great self-goal on two counts :
(1) every atrocity or outrage previously attributed to Islamists or Jihadis must now be shown to have been generated by "Hindu/Saffron" - RSS/BJP etc. Just wait until the Congress or its islamist allies discover that Jinnah was a BJP stooge created while BJP existed in hiding.

(2) but the huge problem is now this incident can show that it is the BJP which can bring about such drastic changes in the hearts and minds of ex-stone pelters - something the OA and the Congress has failed in!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Jan 2011 23:58

B.Raman and intelligence are oxymorons. He is a political hack as sown by his numerous columns. When national interests coincide with 2Gs he is very nationalist.

Not too distant future the INC will change the saffron in the Tiranga.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 23 Jan 2011 23:59

menon s wrote:BJP talks as if the Indian national flag is not unfurled anywhere in Kashmir! Come 26th it is unfurled at the Bhakshi stadium? Why are people ignorant about that?
it was under ABV support that we started talking with Hiz bul, we also spoke to Hurriyat? No flag march was undertaken during ABV`s rule? why ? then is it important today? People like V S malik and B Raman have said no to it. But still? Are these guys anti nationalists by ur standards? Hurl the nation into a war, happy! when there are 400 million people who are still not benefited because of Independence! Bonapartism, in a multi cultural nation like India, is costly and bound to fail. And to end, Did BJP for all the crocodile tears it sheds for KP`s, ever try to bring them back to valley? Do not speak as if BJP is the only alternative. We in South India, have witnessed the kartoot of the first ever BJP ruled state in south. If Nitin Gadkari goes to the extent of saying" Yediyurappa did nothing illegal, but he was immoral",( morality? and yeddy, we know what he was hinting at, we can only laugh) we can understand the depth of the stink. There was another gentleman here, who was talking about taking on China in Tibet? Recovering Aksai chin? Recovering shaksgam valley from China? Darling angel, do you think people in this forum, are ur party faithfuls, happy, for the free trip to the city, 250 rupees , chicken biriyani and a quarter of XXX rum, nodding and clapping to everything u say?

menon stick to J&K and related issue.
talking about corruption is not the issue.(see the bolded parts of your quote)

trying avoiding attacking another poster(blue color of your post).

agree you have different views but please continue your arguments without bringing all other issues and making a mess. TIA

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 24 Jan 2011 00:07

ramana wrote:B.Raman and intelligence are oxymorons. He is a political hack as sown by his numerous columns. When national interests coincide with 2Gs he is very nationalist.

Not too distant future the INC will change the saffron in the Tiranga.

Was reading his blog few years back, although jarringly called as South Asian nonsense. It had lot of data points and there was no analysis and connection of dots were bizzare. After his visit to Hu land he has gone completely cuckoo. Have stopped visiting his site even to mine data. His analysis is mostly polished politics party site at best.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 24 Jan 2011 00:12

Krisna ji,

<OT>
In piscology,
That is a standard tactic when faced with the imminent failure of their logic and they realise that they cannot bring anything to the table in terms of facts, logic, understanding or nuance to change it.

It is a ego satisfying to them that they have not accepted failure in the face. Think of what happens when "losing face" is big and when faced with imminent failure.
</OT>

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 24 Jan 2011 00:19

JwalaMukhi wrote:
ramana wrote:B.Raman and intelligence are oxymorons. He is a political hack as sown by his numerous columns. When national interests coincide with 2Gs he is very nationalist.

Not too distant future the INC will change the saffron in the Tiranga.
Was reading his blog few years back, although jarringly called as South Asian nonsense. It had lot of data points and there was no analysis and connection of dots were bizzare. After his visit to Hu land he has gone completely cuckoo. Have stopped visiting his site even to mine data. His analysis is mostly polished politics party site at best.

How about Maloy Krishna Dhar? is he kosher for you sir? Or shall we look at some one more purer? purer like in? u know where?

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 24 Jan 2011 00:23

Should we shiver in our dhotis if you drop a few names?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 24 Jan 2011 00:25

ravi_ku wrote:Krisna ji,

<OT>
In piscology,
That is a standard tactic when faced with the imminent failure of their logic and they realise that they cannot bring anything to the table in terms of facts, logic, understanding or nuance to change it.

It is a ego satisfying to them that they have not accepted failure in the face. Think of what happens when "losing face" is big and when faced with imminent failure.
</OT>

For them this is a discussion as well as a study material.
They want to link and associate - ideology, thought process with you.

Questions will be like -
This guy said like this does so do you support him
This person prefers this way and you prefer the same way so you support him
This person does not support this or said anything else like this and hence your ideology is against this person

I have been studying their posts now and they have a very good tag teams here. They consider BRF posters are stupid and do not know what they are doing.
This one guy names a political party in every post of his and he is looking for reaction against his post.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 24 Jan 2011 00:27

menon s wrote
BJP talks as if the Indian national flag is not unfurled anywhere in Kashmir! Come 26th it is unfurled at the Bhakshi stadium? Why are people ignorant about that?

Well Paki flag is unfurled in Pakistan too, why is it necessary to raise it in Lal Chowk whenever the KM separatists feel like it? so by the same logic the national flag should not be raised anywhere else in India because it s constantly raised on certain buildings in the national capital!

it was under ABV support that we started talking with Hiz bul, we also spoke to Hurriyat? No flag march was undertaken during ABV`s rule? why ? then is it important today?

It was under Jawaharlal Nehru that we started talking with the Chinese, and there was explicit attempt at not highlighting or asserting Indian territorial claims [Mao repudiated all previously concluded treaties and agreements - including that over Tibet and adjoint areas arrived at with the Brits and which therefore redounded on India as a successor state]. Why protest and highlight our claims now!

People like V S malik and B Raman have said no to it. But still? Are these guys anti nationalists by ur standards?

Are they oracles whom we must faithfully parrot?

Hurl the nation into a war, happy! when there are 400 million people who are still not benefited because of Independence!

So you are positive that merely raising the national flag on some point within Indian sovereign territory will hurl the nation into a "war"? With whom? If it is KM separatists then it it cannot be described as a war - because wars take place with external and foreign sovereign nations. Do you already consider Kashmir Valley a separate sovereign nation? Or with Pak - but then Pakis made war before whether India raised it national flag or not!

Bonapartism, in a multi cultural nation like India, is costly and bound to fail.

Pray, are you sure what that "term" really stands for or is understood as? I don't think thw two people most responsible for the development of the concept had any idea of multi- or mono-culturism! Then according to that "concept" you think it can only succeed in a mono-cultural nation? hmm...It would be really interesting for me if you do explain the reasons in some relevant thread.

And to end, Did BJP for all the crocodile tears it sheds for KP`s, ever try to bring them back to valley?

Thats a serious accusation of insincerity on BJP part. But even if it was insincere, at least it did shed some tears then - according to your acknowledgment - while the Congress shed none at all!

Do not speak as if BJP is the only alternative. We in South India, have witnessed the kartoot of the first ever BJP ruled state in south. If Nitin Gadkari goes to the extent of saying" Yediyurappa did nothing illegal, but he was immoral",( morality? and yeddy, we know what he was hinting at, we can only laugh) we can understand the depth of the stink.

I think this goes OT. Sure BJP is not the only alternative, there is always the Congress or some regional party. But in a general atmosphere of stink, how could you smell the BJP separately? Does stink -political/corruption - also have unique party signatures now? Or you mean there are other stinking alternatives too!

There was another gentleman here, who was talking about taking on China in Tibet? Recovering Aksai chin? Recovering shaksgam valley from China? Darling angel, do you think people in this forum, are ur party faithfuls, happy, for the free trip to the city, 250 rupees , chicken biriyani and a quarter of XXX rum, nodding and clapping to everything u say?

The fourth and last sentence is language wise unacceptable. I do request you to possibly reconsider and re-edit. Is just 250 rupees, chicken biryani and a quarter **** rum the price of supporting any party you are affiliated to - since unless you yourself have directly been involved in such transactions, you cannot know! Actually the price is much lower or much higher depending on issue and not always paid in kind or cash. You would be surprised to know how many actually join up for some demo based on other more serious obligations and "exchanges".

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 24 Jan 2011 00:32

menon s wrote: How about Maloy Krishna Dhar? is he kosher for you sir? Or shall we look at some one more purer? purer like in? u know where?

OT and my last post on this topic:
There are only three people who are kosher. Rest are all maya onlee.
1) Arundhati Roy
2) Burkha Dutt
3) Vir Singhvi.
The above three are touchstone, one can bet anything that one does exactly opposite of what these three recommend, it will be a guaranteed sensible decision.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Jan 2011 00:37

The behavior of DIE PSers calls for Indians to negotiate New Deal with the leadership of current foreign rulers a.k.a Government of India. We need new partition and reorganization of India. Let "GOI" part with India and get its own territory like Paki and rule over their part with the zeal of Nu-convert sans any opposition . Andaman,Nicobar islands are perfect sylvanic areas for day dreaming and experimenting with 5M= Max,Marx, Mao,Mu and Maino. Leave the Indian to themslevs.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 24 Jan 2011 00:39

Truly a dandi moment, no shortage of people coming out to cry for the people offended by the sight of the tri-colour in Lal Chowk.

They are the identical group elsewhere too, be it in Nuke thread or C 17 thread.

The patterns are ominous.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Jan 2011 00:46

Or in the early nuke deal threads! Need for someone to name the fraud and get banned!