West Asia News and Discussions

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krisna
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by krisna »

West Asia unrest has its echo in India
The tussle in West Asia spilt over to New Delhi with Saudi Arabia and Iran taking up cudgels over Bahrain. Riyadh cast the first stone by accusing Iran of meddling in Bahrain where public unrest is being put down with the help of soldiers from Saudi Arabia.
Iran has now hit back with its mission here asking countries, especially Muslim nations and its neighbours, not to pay attention to the West's allegations “blaming us'' for the unrest in Shia majority Bahrain currently ruled by a Sunni monarchy.
“This is not a Shia-Sunni issue. Iran has supported the Palestinian cause for the last 30 years. Palestinians are largely Sunni but Iran's support is out of its sense of duty to these people,'' he explained.
The diplomats defended Iran's record by pointing out that after the overthrow of Shah Reza Pehlavi, 30 elections have been held. Public participation has been at over 60 per cent in most of the polls. The previous presidential elections saw an 80 per cent turnout. “We hope this trend takes root in the Middle East [West Asia] and the people have a say in running the government,'' added one of them. :P
The diplomats saw a big role for India in ushering popular participation in countries run by monarchies and autocracies. But India should not see one way and should not work unilaterally. “We see a great role for India. We hope India will do its duty,'' they hoped
could become complicated with the coming days.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Klaus »

Sorry for this 101 question, just needed to get this one out.

Just noticed that the tip of the Arabian peninsula jutting out into the Strait of Hormuz is actually Omani territory, does Oman earn transit fees or shipping fees of some kind from all the maritime trade which goes through the strait due to this? Does this confer any other advantage for Oman?

What are the pitfalls (for Oman) when it comes to a shooting match between GCC and Iran in this area? The maritime boundary of 12 nautical miles would still apply but there is a high chance of blue-on-blue and friendly fire exchange between Omani-GCC and Iranian-Omani gunboats and aircraft.

If the incidents of blue-on-blue in the vast stretches of Libya are any indication, any naval or aerial warfare in this area is going to be claustrophobic, to say the least. :eek: :shock:
ramana
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

Oman is odd man out. They suffer when the elephants fight.

A thing to worry is Busher. What type of guarantees are there to prevent a Fukushima type incident messing up the Gulf?Is Busher based on sea shore?Does it discharge into sea? Many Gulf countries rely on desalinated sea water. Instead of tsunami which is remote what if the fighting cause a bad outcome?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Gagan »

According to Wikipedia, the Iranians have begun loading the Bushehr reactor with fuel starting August 10, 2010 onwards.

Now that the reactor has fuel inside, it can't be attacked by the coalition forces.

This one has been rebuilt by the Russians, after the Original German company opted out after the Iranian Revolution in 1979. The russians came in in the 90s and installed a VVER-1000 LWR in place - a tech marvel in itself, they fitted a russian reactor design into the German building and vessel.

This VVER-1000 is similar to our own 1000 MW Kundankulam NPP, two of which the Russians have already built in South India. These are modern designs and in the case of Bushehr the russian designers claim that that plant will survive a 9 richter scale earthquake.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

X-Posting from Af-Pak -> Pak-Af Watch Thread
Klaus wrote:NATO + Turkey combine seems to have the goal of a Turko-Khuzestan using a subverted, undermined Kurdistan as a corridor to Turkish Gulf (renamed Persian Gulf).

Af-Pak parking location is just one long Sun-Tzu ploy of barking in the east while biting in the west (of Iran).

EU seems to have given Turkey some assurance that while they might not induct Turkey into EU, they will help it expand south-eastwards and wink-wink-nudge-nudge the process.
Very perceptive Klaus ji,

This could in fact be a new ploy of getting Khuzestan's Oil & Gas to Europe, with the pipelines running through "subverted" Kurdistan and Turkey, or indeed moving all of Gulf's Oil & Gas to Europe through America friendly region - Khuzestan under Arab Shia State, Arab Shia State itself, Kurdistan, Turkey --> Europe!

Somebody may be thinking of diminishing Europe's dependence on Gazprom's pipelines from Russia! :wink:

India should get started on the SAGE undersea pipeline asap!
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by devesh »

EU seems to have given Turkey some assurance that while they might not induct Turkey into EU, they will help it expand south-eastwards and wink-wink-nudge-nudge the process.
wth? EU is axing its own foot. they're giving birth to a pan-national power right on their doorstep. how long before, Turkey decides that their brethren in Southern Europe need some help too???? and then history repeats itself again....
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Klaus »

^^^ The barter is in that very statement. EU uses an excuse of Islamism in Turkey to keep Turkey out of EU, while seeking to use the same Islamism to get Turkey + NATO to provide a land+oil corridor from Istanbul to Khorramshahr.

As far as EU axing their own foot is concerned in the long term, it is true in any case with Turkey's increasing footprint in Central Asian stans and Turko-TSP-PRC axis. Moreover, EU's fundamental weakness is that they do not understand anything other than a Judeo-X'tian dynamic.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

Gagan, Forgetting Qayamat thinking of the parties?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Klaus wrote:Sorry for this 101 question, just needed to get this one out.

What are the pitfalls (for Oman) when it comes to a shooting match between GCC and Iran in this area? The maritime boundary of 12 nautical miles would still apply but there is a high chance of blue-on-blue and friendly fire exchange between Omani-GCC and Iranian-Omani gunboats and aircraft.
Iran and Oman JOINTLY control the straits and jointly police it. It is unlikely that Oman and Iran will have any standoff simply because they are technically allies (good relations withTehran - the strongest in the GCC). But Oman's security interests are now permanently tied to the GCC (KSA). Although there is a small possibility that India has signed an agreement with Oman to police the straits - hence we are seeing surveillance flights etc.

To date, Sultan has said Oman will not host any attacks from its side (or foreign powers) against Iran.

You have to understand that the US has secret (some well known) warstores in several of these nations and the nation that stores the warstores are allowed to use them. They will just launch missile after missile if need be.

Apparently Qatar has refused to align with the GCC moves based on stuff I am hearing unlike Turkey which shared a similar relationship with Iran. So after refusing to sell gas to their brothers, Qatar may not be getting involved. Interesting times eh.

----------------------------------
BTW, Extremists are breeded as a 3rd column against any threat - see now KSA is mobilizing or it could be that TSP is activitating its 3rd column. Whats the % of population of shia's in Pak? How serious can it get for them?


Pakistan: A new proxy battle ground for Saudi Arabia, Iran

By Syed Saleem Shahzad
With a broad Sunni Muslim bloc of countries lining up against an emerging Pro-Iran Shi’ite crescent in the Middle East, Sunni-majority and nuclear-armed Pakistan has become a proxy battleground for both Iran and the Saudi Arabia.

In response to the wall chalking and banners against the Saudi Arabia’s monarchy by the different Shiite organizations, the Pakistani madressas belonging to the Deobandi and the Salafi school of thought have also activated their cadre in support of the Saudi Kingdom. Last week one of the largest Pakistani Islamic Seminary Jamia Binoria Al-Alamia situated in the Pakistani southern port city of Karachi published an advertisment in the newspapers (see the scanned copy) in which it has announced a meeting of all clerics and the prayer leaders of the Karachi mosques to prepare a strategy “In defense of the servent of the two holy places” an official title used for the King Abdullah.

Earlier, Asia Times Online wrote that Pakistan’s Fauji Foundation, an armed forces entity, organized the recruitment of over 1,000 ex-army personnel for service in Bahrain’s National Guard. The small Persian Gulf state, which is headquarters to the United States 5th Fleet, is suppressing protests with the help of Saudi invasion forces. Bahrain’s ruling elite is Sunni, although about 70% of the population is Shi’ite. The advertisement for Pakistanis to join Bahrain’s National Guard was published about three weeks ago in a mass-circulation Urdu-language newspaper. Since then, the process of recruitment has continued unabated. According to investigations by Asia Times Online, the recruits have been promised 100,000 Pakistani rupees (US$1,174) a month, beside other perks including free medical and accommodation. People with names that have a traditional Shi’ite ring – such as Syed, Abbas, Ali and Hussain – are being overlooked. Iranian media have broadcast stories predicting a strong Pakistani role in the Gulf region; this resulted in Iranian-sponsored agitators in Bahrain killing several Pakistani workers for “collaborating with the Sunni rulers of Bahrain”.
This is all preparation now. Like I said tensions are now moving to stage 3 of 5. Next moves will be serious war exercises, war moves, war planning, mobilization. Iran's time is up. Only one way out, head to vienna and negotiate an end to this. This is just deterrence I think and Pak is just getting ready to enact the GCC - Pak Security agreement.

--------------------------
Nuclear Power Plant to Resume Work Early May: Iran
Tehran | Apr 09, 2011

Iran said today that its first nuclear power plant will resume work early May, a day after the facility's Russian contractor acknowledged reloading the fuel in the plant.

"We hope that the Bushehr power plant reaches critical phase between May 5 and 10," Iranian Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi, who previously headed the Islamic republic's atomic body, was quoted as saying by Fars news agency.

He said the fuel supplied by Moscow was "removed from the reactor's core, was washed... And as of yesterday it was reloaded".

Engineers had began removing the fuel in late February due to an apparent technical fault.

Russia's Atomstroyexport agency which oversaw the Bushehr plant's construction said in a statement on Friday that the refuelling operation began after the plant had been re-checked and its various pieces "washed through".

It was not immediately clear from the statement when the Bushehr plant would be commissioned.

The plant's connection to the electric grid of Iran was initially scheduled for the end of 2010, but was then postponed to April 9 due to technical problems.

Russia last month blamed the latest delay on internal wear-and-tear at the plant, whose construction had initially started in the 1970s with the help of Germany's Siemens company.

Russia also blamed Iran for forcing its engineers to work with outdated parts in the plant.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Gagan »

Exactly as we had been speculating.

Iran is in a tearing hurry to load fuel and start Bushehr. It will announce that it is functional and can't be therefore attacked.

But I am sure that Iran's regime's time is up.

If for H&D purposes Iran doesn't back down, it will be headed for disaster
OTOH if the power centers in Iran wake up - on due prodding from GCC and the west, to sacrifice a few people and the N weapons program, in order to save Iran, we will see the end of the Ahmedinijad regime and perhaps the mullah's rule over Iran.

Iran will retaliate against all participants who've ganged up against it - The GCC, Pakistan, and ofcourse its favourite - Israel.

Pakistan's exact percentage of Shia population is hard to estimate - that godforsaken country hasn't had a (proper) cencus in decades (And even the one's its had were shams). Wikipedia lists Shias as between 10-20% (about 19-38 million people out of 187 million).

It is hard for Pakistan or the GCC nations to escape if Iran burns next door. There will be repurcussions for sure, the GCC states are well set to manage it, but what happens within pakistan will be interesting to see.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

Gagan wrote:Exactly as we had been speculating.

Iran is in a tearing hurry to load fuel and start Bushehr. It will announce that it is functional and can't be therefore attacked.

But I am sure that Iran's regime's time is up.
Iran is actually telling the "Sunni Coalition", that other than occupation of Bushehr Province, they have no other options. Something that may suit well with those who would later on need to justify their opposition.

Occupation "became necessary" due to the required restraint by the "Sunni Coalition" in causing any damage to the nuclear plant, in view of the horrific events seen in Fukishima. :wink:

And if "Sunni Coalition" aka America is forced to occupy Bushehr Province, then Iran loses both its South Pars gas fields as well their new gas findings around the Khayyam, around 300km East of Bushehr.

Basically Iran is sending out invitations to the others to come and occupy its territory. Look out for more Shock and Awe!
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Gagan »

If the Iranians don't load fuel into Bushehr, it will be attacked and destroyed for H&D purposes for stating that "Iran's nuclear program has been demoted".

Yet if they start it, it becomes a magnet for trouble.

I wonder how long will it take for the build up to be complete? Can we speculate on a possible timeline here?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

RamaY wrote: According to Gengler, the Shi'ite share of the population probably peaked at 65 to 70% in the mid-1980s. Since then, there has been a concerted effort by the government to dilute Shi'ite numbers by an aggressive program to naturalize Sunnis {is that why ShyamD garu was talking about the ineffectiveness of Indian democracy?}
My point is that democracy is not far or long sighted. Too many things are done for short term interest. If I am a businessman, I want to vote for the guy who benefits me the most. Long term interests of the country may take a back seat if I have a family to feed.

Especially in India I dont think we are ready for full democracy. You'll slowly understand when you look at Europe (look at Greece, Ireland and now Portugal even UKstan! 100's of thousand are protesting against austerity measures even though the country needs it for its very survival). Everyone is running away from the tough decisions that are in the nations interests (austerity). So What you need is a strong leader to take those decisions even though the population may be against it. Both models have advantages and disadvantages. Like with autocracy, there is a lot of instability and bloodshed when people want a change of ruler. So its not without problems, but I think in the toughest of times, it may be the best option. When you look at yourself in the mirror, do you see yourself or your country?

Also - Look at the tactics in Bahrain - very similar to what we are trying to do with our IMs. They are trying to invoke nationalism over the shia ideology. We should be watching it to learn some lessons for our population too.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

have the Kurds of north iraq and turkey been bought over to the US/EU CoW. few years back turkey was using MH60 helis and kamandu's to raid kurdish rebels.

if a significant porting of Kurds still want autonomy and are not willing to tow the turkish line, they could target any pipelines flowing through their woods.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Kurds are split. KRG is pro Turkey and is giving intelligence on PKK. Kurds have good cooperation with Turkey. Look into Nabucco - the companies that have an interest in it and their holdings in MASSIVE gas/oil fields in KRG territory.

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Rumours about that all US ops in Yemen have been stopped by Saleh under Riyadh's orders. All Anti AQAP ops stopped.

All GCC FMs flying to Riyadh for emergency meeting on Yemen.
--------------------------
MI6 increasing recruitment of persian language specialists.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

who gets the revenue of the KIRKUCK oilfield in iraq these days ? kurdish warlords ? baghdad ? or its shared by the two under some formula?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Baghdad ministry of Oil. The agreement is that anything that was found by Iraqi Oil co's in saddam era - Baghdad receives full share. Anything under KRG rule i.e. after invasion is Arbil's. But things still in negotiation, but so far both sides have agreed revenues will go directly to Ministry of Oil in Baghdad.

Revenue Sharing Laws have not been passed yet. But at the moment there is a defacto agreement on 17% of the overall pot of oil sales. These issues are complicated by Kirkuk and whether it is kurdish or arab. So they want to do a census - loads of politics as saddam arabized it. So its a major bone of contention/conflict between the two. the constitution says census will decide which side it will go to.
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Post by Klaus »

^^^ So just the numbers from the census will make the decision, not some plebiscite. Need to watch out for doctoring of numbers then...
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Klaus »

The recent aerial bombing of a car in Port Sudan, was it a tactical move to gauge preparedness for a possible osirak redux on youknowwhere? A sharpening the blade operation, if you will call it that. :shock:
RajeshA wrote:
Basically Iran is sending out invitations to the others to come and occupy its territory.
Perhaps a Kichaka-vadh ploy?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

Klaus wrote:
RajeshA wrote:Basically Iran is sending out invitations to the others to come and occupy its territory.
Perhaps a Kichaka-vadh ploy?
Yep, Keechak is going to be killed by "Sunnis" onlee, only it is going to be in broad daylight! :mrgreen:
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Johann »

Singha wrote:have the Kurds of north iraq and turkey been bought over to the US/EU CoW. few years back turkey was using MH60 helis and kamandu's to raid kurdish rebels.

if a significant porting of Kurds still want autonomy and are not willing to tow the turkish line, they could target any pipelines flowing through their woods.
The Kurdish Regional Government has an arrangement with Turkey. The Turks allow normal trade and population movement over the border, while the KRG does nothing to assist the PKK. Wilderness areas in Iraqi Kurdistan that the PKK use as bases face occasional Turkish SF and air raids, with no complaints from the KRG.

The Americans are fine with this arrangement, and in fact helped broker it.

There's a similar arrangement between the KRG and the Syrian government.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by JE Menon »

Singha wrote:have the Kurds of north iraq and turkey been bought over to the US/EU CoW. few years back turkey was using MH60 helis and kamandu's to raid kurdish rebels.

if a significant porting of Kurds still want autonomy and are not willing to tow the turkish line, they could target any pipelines flowing through their woods.
GD, I would say the Kurds of northern Iraq have been bought over to the US worldview. They are comfortable now, enjoying possibly the most "independent" period in memory...They have money rolling in - don't know the exact oil split and all that, but clearly there is cash on the ground (spent four days in Erbil last week). I would say it is like sort of Saudi was about 30 years ago, but with significantly more green, and certainly more liveable. There is poverty, but a lot of people have gotten quite a bit of money of late... They are in the phase of animobility to automobility in one shot :) - and quite a few high end cars were there.

Kurdistan Republic Government (KRG) has excellent relations with Turkey it appears, and there is a hell of a lot of business going on. The Turks are present there in a big way, in construction, and various other businesses. Smuggling is also going on big time. There are just two malls in Erbil of any size, Family Mall and Majidi Mall - but although they are modern, they still don't accept credit/debit cards because systems are not in place. Clearly, there is a lot of money to be made here.

Indians are present across the board from menial labour (indicating the fact that money is rolling in enough for there to be local labour/expertise shortage) to professionals in charge of MNCs already in place ... Some of the top chaps in the Malls were also Indian, and one was a Pak... There is a Hindustan Travel Agency on one of the main streets, suggesting there is enough of a travelling community to sustain an agency's presence. All good signs. I personally spotted three families in the airport on the way in, and some of the DNATA officers appear to be Indians as well.

The Kurds are at the moment feeling fiercely independent, and are not too keen to speak Arabic. But many of them do, although not very well it seems - according to an Arab companion I had. They are also proud, and a tough people. Many of them appear to speak English, at least those who do, with an Americanised accent, rather than an American one. Either it is the education system which has got American influences and then became localised or there is a tendency towards affectation ...

The people are generally speaking rustic, and not by any means what you would call urban sophisticates. Although those are there too.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

Published on Aug 21, 2010
By Joshua Teitelbaum
The Shiites of Saudi Arabia: Hudson Institute
the kingdom, they keep an ever-watchful eye over their own Shiite population. The ascendancy of the Shiites in Iraq and Lebanon has given rise to a feeling of empowerment amongst the Shiites of Saudi Arabia. They are proud of the accomplishments of their brethren. At the same time, they are cautious in what they hope for and how they express themselves, because much of the Wahhabi ulama in Saudi Arabia fears the rise of Shiism, and vocally opposes it. The Saudi Shiites expect the government to condemn anti-Shiite fatwas, and act as a protector, but the government has not done so.
It is impossible to arrive at an exact determination of the number of Saudi Shiites. They constitute between ten and fifteen percent of the population, and about thirty-three percent of the population in the Eastern Province.6 They reside primarily in the Eastern Province, where Saudi Arabia’s oil is located, with a small number living in Medina.
Deep in Shiite historical memory rests their persecution by the Saudis during the18th and 19th centuries. Expanding into Iraq in the early 19th century, Saudi warriors famously destroyed the tomb of Imam Husayn in Karbala and the tombs of the Prophet’s companions (the sahaba) in Mecca and Medina, demonstrating the extreme enmity the Saudi Wahhabis held towards the Shiites. For the Wahhabis, grave worship was the paramount act of shirk, or polytheism, a severe accusation, so its practice by the Shiites became a source of constant suffering.
There were two important events in 2005 for Saudi Arabia’s Shiites. One was the accession of Abdallah to the throne in August, following the death of King Fahd. The other was the elections held for the Saudi municipal councils. When Abdallah became King, the Shiites thought their moment had finally arrived. He was the champion of reform and religious tolerance. A busload of leaders and clerics from the Eastern Province traveled to Riyadh to pledge their loyalty, or baya. A Shiite activist was quoted as saying, “I have never seen anything like this.”

In the spring of 2005, national elections were held for municipal councils. These were the first such elections in over forty years. Although some more radical Shiite clerics declared a boycott of the elections, Shaykh Saffar’s policy of engagement carried the day. Coming on the heels of the Shiite victory in the January 2005 Iraqi elections, Saffar pointed to Iraq as an example of the need to participate in the process. The turnout was relatively high, even higher than in the rest of the kingdom. Even though the actual positions contested were for half the seats in powerless municipal councils (the other half being appointees), the campaign itself and the very fact that their vote counted was reason for great optimism among the Shiites. They won nearly all of the seats they contested.
The time for surgery approaches! :twisted:
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

Old Article but relevant to the emerging situation

Published on Mar 17, 2005
By John R Bradley
Saudi's Shi'ites walk tightrope: Asia Times Online
So the question everyone was asking, after the fall of Saddam Hussein in 2003, was what would stop the Shi'ites of the Eastern Province, who have no obvious incentive to support the al-Saud regime that oppresses them and damns them as "infidels", from welcoming US forces if they rolled into the Eastern Province to "liberate" Saudi Arabia's oil fields?
In 1802, Wahhabis supported by the al-Saud penetrated Karbala, the Shi'ite holy city in Iraq, and destroyed the mausoleum of Hussein, a grandson of the Prophet whose martyrdom Shi'ites commemorate during Ashura. With that attack on the tombs of Hussein and his followers, the al-Saud ruling family, and their Wahhabi backers, declared their open hostility to the Shi'ite sect.
In a region obsessed with conspiracy theories, many Saudis, both Sunni and Shi'ite, think that Washington has plans to split off the Eastern Province into a separate entity, and seize control of the oil reserves after Iraq has stabilized. No amount of appeasement from the al-Saud is, in the meantime, going to pacify extremist Wahhabi elements - or, for that matter, the majority of the Shi'ites in the Eastern Province, who, not satisfied with token gestures, seem certain to exploit their ambiguous position when it comes to the issue of their loyalty to the Saudi state to push even more strongly for greater freedom and rights.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

President Zardari due in Turkey to bolster strategic ties

Malaysia, Saudi Arabia To Ink Security Agreement
"The pact will help us to put the brakes on activities that may jeopardise not only Malaysia but also other countries, considering that we now live in a borderless world," he told reporters at a gathering attended by non-governmental organisations here Saturday.

Hishammuddin also said the ministry continued to monitor deviant groups in the country, especially the banned Al-Arqam movement.

"We'll take action against them if the security of the country is compromised," he added.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Venkarl »

ramana wrote: A thing to worry is Busher. What type of guarantees are there to prevent a Fukushima type incident messing up the Gulf?Is Busher based on sea shore?Does it discharge into sea? Many Gulf countries rely on desalinated sea water. Instead of tsunami which is remote what if the fighting cause a bad outcome?
can't say about water there...but a blast by accident or "sunni" attack on Bushehr or any other reactor in Iran is not in our interest.....In Summer, low pressure point in dead sea generates sub tropical westerlies which blows westward into northern part of India...so these prevailing winds will carry radioactive dust to Northern India and precipitates on Indian soil after hitting Himalayas....apart from lives effected by cancer..land, water bodies, river systems, crop lands etc will be effected....good brains in Delhi have to work out on this...like Shyamd Sir has mentioned on this thread...Indian leadership cannot be a bystander while Goras and Sunnis attack Iran...we need to prevent any such nuclear fallout in Iran not just for Iranians or Arabs...but for ourselves..
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Rudradev »

Some data points of interest.

Up until 2010, the US media would periodically run scary stories about the possibility of Paki nuke material, or even a nuclear weapon, falling into the hands of Al-Qaeda. This in spite of all the scattered reports we had been hearing about the US having PAL-locked the Paki arsenal, stationed spec-ops teams at sensitive sites, etc. There was even public discussion in the media about American military options to secure nukes if the Paki government collapsed.

Then, in circa March 2010, Seymour Hersh (I believe) wrote an article referring to a new understanding that had been reached between GOTUS and the TSPA. Separate from all other financial and military aid, the US had paid a sum of $1 billion directly into TSPA coffers. In exchange, the US had gained unprecedented access to the Paki nuclear weapons establishment, of which the exact parameters were unspecified. GOTUS expressed great confidence in the resulting boost to American security against "nuclear terrorism".

What's funny is that after this point, US media seemed to become dead quiet on the subject of Paki nukes falling into Al-Qaeda hands. It was as if the GOTUS had spoken the last word... "we are confident that Paki nukes are secure"... and news organizations had accepted this without further question.

What's even funnier is that the publicly-maintained facade of "GOTUS confidence in the security of Paki nukes", stayed completely unperturbed despite many unprecedented downturns in the US-Paki-GOAT relationship:
-TSPA's outright refusal to go after the Haqqanis in N. Waziristan
-US ratcheting up the drone attacks in response
-Most recently, the Raymond Davis affair

AND, despite news reports in the US media that Pakistan had started producing additional nukes on a war footing, bringing its arsenal up beyond 100 weapons!

Very strange no? All these things should have ignited the public debate afresh. After all the paki nuke in Al-Qaeda hands should be what the US dreads the most as a result of any downturn in the US-Paki relationship.

So what is really going on here? And does it have some relevance to the events unfolding in West Asia?

My CT:
1) The March 2010 deal between US and TSP involved transferring the keys to the crown jewels... the entire Paki nuclear program plus existing arsenal... into US hands. TSPA incentives to do this were $1B cash, plus F-solahs (finally started getting delivered last year), plus the likelihood of an India-style nuclear deal held out by the US (remember Christine Fair and others published articles in support of a nuclear deal for Pakistan, early in 2010.) Maybe there were disincentives as well.

2) The $1B cash paid to TSPA was not US money but GCC money... mainly Saudi. A final follow-up tranche to the sums that KSA invested in paying for the Paki nuclear establishment since the days of its very inception.

3) The $1B consisted of operational funds for the outsourced manufacture of a nuclear deterrent, at Pakistani facilities, very likely under American supervision. Not a Pakistani deterrent, but a Saudi/GCC one. And that's what the Pakis have been busily manufacturing, taking their apparent inventory up past 100 weapons without a murmur of protest from Washington's non-proliferationists.

In effect the US took over the TSPA-owned, Photochor-managed turnkey operation, and is now managing it for the purpose of proliferating nukes to Saudi Arabia as a deterrent/threat against imminent Iranian nuclearization. Other GCC states, UAE/Qatar/Bahrain and maybe even Oman, will host and have partial control over some of those Saudi nukes under the aegis of a NATO style nuclear sharing regime. When Iran declares its NW status it will find itself surrounded by Sunni regimes that are already nuclearized, with arsenals that are probably already operationalized.

If you think about it, even GOI has been very quiet about the dramatic ramp-up in Pakistani nuke production. Even the routine tests of painted Chinese missiles by Islamabad used to prompt some sort of protest by South Block in the past... but as the Paki inventory crossed 100 nukes over the last year, I don't think we've even said a word! Conclusion: the Saudi biraders and US fathers of MMS have briefed the PMO about this little cottage industry.

Sponsored proliferation by proxy is not a game for the Chinese alone (if indeed, it ever was.)

Your thoughts gentlemen?
shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Mullah Rudradev-uddin, Mashallah bery goood analysis. Your madrassah taught you well..

On a serious note. Extremely plausible - but the story may need some small tweaks. Basically to sum it up the GCC don't trust GOTUS when it comes to it (N war). So they wanted their own. Washington hasn't brokered it but has approved it I feel. GOTUS is still flying in saying we will promise you shield, joint KSA navy n USN SLBM tests etc.

Yes KSA have the maal I can confirm that on my part.
ramana
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

What do you think of the sidenote in the Haaretz article on wikipees?
shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Check your email boss, just sent you an email regarding it short while ago. Source is very confident its not true.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
JE Menon
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by JE Menon »

Rudradev, very feasible boss - especially under Obama. Now the only question remaining is, therefore:

How long before Jerusalem? :D

The only issue with the above scenario, which I reiterate is entirely feasible, is it represents a total undermining of the US-Israeli compact. Unless, the Israelis are in the game too and on the basis of trust of the Sunnis. Possible, but improbable, I feel.
Johann
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Johann »

In 1988 the Pakistanis brokered the Chinese sale of 50-60 DF-3 IRBMs to the Saudis.

The Americans were not informed, but found out later, and were mad as hell. Madder still because the Saudis told them to go climb a tree when they complained...

There are reports that the Saudis bought replacements in the early 2000s, around the same time as the Iranians admitted they had a secret enrichment program.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/spy-talk ... .html#more

Given that the Saudis funded the Pakistani nuclear programme in the 1970s and 80s, its not unlikely that they would do the same thing now.
shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

So essentially they are giving up a bit of sovereignty in exchange for a better/safer future. Problem with paper agreements is that it doesn't mean anything. People can easily rip it up to shreds. So, this is a move to ensure the security. Anyway, all this is as predicted. Confederation for 3 years, then after Iran is dealt with then federation.
The Six GCC Members Want A Diplomatic, Military Confederation
by Gavriel Queenann
Follow Israel news on Twitter and Facebook.

The six members of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) are discussing setting up a Gulf confederation, Kuwait's Al Seyassah daily reported on Tuesday.

According to the report, which comes as tensions mount between Shiite Iran and the Sunni-ruled Gulf states, the proposed confederation would have a unified foreign, defence and security policy, but each of the six countries would retain their independence and sovereignty.

Quoting unamed highly placed sources, the report said such a move will help Gulf Arab states confront challenges and threats from Iran to their security, sovereignty and independence.

"The confederation is seen as a crucial development after the blatant Iranian interference in Bahrain's domestic affairs and Tehran's repeated attempts to undermine the security and stability of the Gulf states through mercenaries working for the Revolutionary Guards and the Iranian intelligence services even though they have Arab nationalities," the paper quoted the sources as saying.

The GCC secretariat is coordinating "wide and expansive" talks between senior officials in GCC countries with the ideal outcome being the formation of a confederation.

Under the confederation plan, a single foreign affairs ministry will be in charge of the GCC relations with other countries and the six Gulf states will have only one common embassy in foriegn countries, which in turn will have only one diplomatic mission in the Gulf.

The Gulf countries would also turn the existing Peninsula Shield, their military cooperation arm, into a fast intervention force with higher military and fighting capabilities to repel regional threats and confront plots to undermine stability in any of the six member countries.

"The competent agencies in the Gulf countries will also unify their combat training and will hold massive military manoeuvres involving land, sea and air forces annually," the sources said.

"The Gulf states will activate and reinvigorate their agreements and will sign new ones while speeding up the implementation of the accords on the customs unions and oil policies," the sources said.

The proposed GCC force would be mere kilometers from Israel via the Gulf of Aqaba. Its effects on Arab-Israeli relations as a separate entity from the Arab league remains unknown.kilometers from Israel via the Gulf of Aqaba
abhishek_sharma
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by abhishek_sharma »

The Battle for Egypt’s Future: Yasmine El Rashidi

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archive ... ts-future/
Samudragupta
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Samudragupta »

shyamd wrote:So essentially they are giving up a bit of sovereignty in exchange for a better/safer future. Problem with paper agreements is that it doesn't mean anything. People can easily rip it up to shreds. So, this is a move to ensure the security. Anyway, all this is as predicted. Confederation for 3 years, then after Iran is dealt with then federation.
The Six GCC Members Want A Diplomatic, Military Confederation
by Gavriel Queenann
Follow Israel news on Twitter and Facebook.

The six members of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) are discussing setting up a Gulf confederation, Kuwait's Al Seyassah daily reported on Tuesday.

According to the report, which comes as tensions mount between Shiite Iran and the Sunni-ruled Gulf states, the proposed confederation would have a unified foreign, defence and security policy, but each of the six countries would retain their independence and sovereignty.

Quoting unamed highly placed sources, the report said such a move will help Gulf Arab states confront challenges and threats from Iran to their security, sovereignty and independence.

"The confederation is seen as a crucial development after the blatant Iranian interference in Bahrain's domestic affairs and Tehran's repeated attempts to undermine the security and stability of the Gulf states through mercenaries working for the Revolutionary Guards and the Iranian intelligence services even though they have Arab nationalities," the paper quoted the sources as saying.

The GCC secretariat is coordinating "wide and expansive" talks between senior officials in GCC countries with the ideal outcome being the formation of a confederation.

Under the confederation plan, a single foreign affairs ministry will be in charge of the GCC relations with other countries and the six Gulf states will have only one common embassy in foriegn countries, which in turn will have only one diplomatic mission in the Gulf.

The Gulf countries would also turn the existing Peninsula Shield, their military cooperation arm, into a fast intervention force with higher military and fighting capabilities to repel regional threats and confront plots to undermine stability in any of the six member countries.

"The competent agencies in the Gulf countries will also unify their combat training and will hold massive military manoeuvres involving land, sea and air forces annually," the sources said.

"The Gulf states will activate and reinvigorate their agreements and will sign new ones while speeding up the implementation of the accords on the customs unions and oil policies," the sources said.

The proposed GCC force would be mere kilometers from Israel via the Gulf of Aqaba. Its effects on Arab-Israeli relations as a separate entity from the Arab league remains unknown.kilometers from Israel via the Gulf of Aqaba

Where does Egypt stand in all these movements?

And Hurray just now i graduated..... :)
abhishek_sharma
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by abhishek_sharma »

In the chaos of the Mideast, the huge question remains the fate of the Saudis

http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/20 ... the_saudis

U.S. public diplomacy and the Arab uprisings

http://lynch.foreignpolicy.com/posts/20 ... _uprisings
shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Defence (tri services) delegation headed to Turkey on Saturday led by Air Force Chief.
ramana
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

Nightwatch 4/14/2011
Iran-US-Bahrain-Yemen: US intelligence agencies intercepted communications which indicate Iran is exploring methods to aid Shiite hardliners in Bahrain and Yemen to destabilize the countries.

According to chatter intercepted between Iranian officials and Bahraini and Yemeni opposition figures, Iranian contacts discussed sending cash and weapons to both countries, specifically a few dozen light weapons into Bahrain. Iran and militant group Hezbollah currently are focusing on propaganda to focus the opposition in both countries.

US officials said they had no concrete evidence Iran was behind the recent uprisings against US allies in the region or is planning large-scale military or financial assistance, adding Iran's aspirations might currently exceed their resources.

Comment: Today's allegations about intercepted communications do little to support the accusation that the Iranians are stoking unrest in Bahrain and Yemen. Worse, they increase skepticism because no government has provided the evidence, rather than claims that such evidence exists. Not the same.

Strong evidence of Iranian meddling in Bahrain's internal unrest would be public testimony by an agent of influence in Iranian employ. Such testimony might not be believable, but it would be far more probative than unsubstantiated assertions about intercepted communications.

Nevertheless, international pressure for proof of Iranian meddling has succeeded in persuading the US to admit that the charges are based on intercepted communications of some kind at some time. That represents progress, albeit slight.

Iran-US-Syria: Iran is providing material assistance to the Syrian government in support of its efforts to suppress pro-democracy demonstrations. Senior U.S. officials said Iran provided Syrian authorities with equipment, advice and technical assistance to suppress the crowds. The aid included monitoring and curtailing protestors' communications, such as e-mail, texting, Internet postings and cellphone usage. Some equipment for suppressing crowds already has been delivered to Syrian security forces and more is expected. The officials said they believed Tehran secretly promised additional aid to Syrian President Bashar al-Asad in the event the protests intensify.

Comment: The report above appears to be based on the same kinds of intercepted communications as cited in the previous report.

The US appears to be supporting a narrative that Iran is responsible for unrest - as in Bahrain -- and repression - as in Syria. That narrative appears to be accurate in that it describes Iranian interests in the two countries. In Bahrain, Iranian interests lie in protecting the Shiite minority from repression by the Sunni monarchy. In Syria, the Alawite minority sect that governs the Sunni majority is an Arab offshoot of Shiism and is allied with Iran. Iranian leaders seem to have an accurate understanding of their best interests.

A Syrian Foreign Ministry official denied US allegations that Iran was helping to suppress protests in Syria. The official said that if the US State Department has evidence of Iranian involvement, it should present the evidence.
Nightwatch is retired pro-establishemnt expert. If he is doubting the US version then there are serious credibility issues..
abhishek_sharma
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Outraged in Riyadh: Is the House of Saud dumping Obama?

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... _in_riyadh
ramana
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

WANA elites are also very worried and have severe anxiety.

If you take long view from 19th century the large Sunni power structures have fractured on ethnic lines:Arabs, Turks, and gave rise to double whammy of Shia Iranis. Iraq intervention has created Arab Shia power. Iraq under Sunnis was a major threat to Israel.

Arabs stabbed the Ottomons and emerged from the chaos. They got lucky with oil and used to feed fundamentalist forces and unleashed chaos far away. After the US intervention in Iraq, Afghanistan and presence in TSP, they don't trust as before. They didn't secure their internal affairs while stirring the pot elsewhere. They are now vulnerable to social media revolutions which so far were supported by US.


All this is opportunity and also threats.
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