Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2011

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 03 May 2011 15:28

sum wrote: Refuse to believe this will happen. All just dramabaazi to make Pakis GUBO more now that Unkil has one hand firmly on the Paki testimonials...

I assumed that any aid ( if ever Obama continues to give ) will have to go through the Congress. No?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 03 May 2011 15:39

Senator John Kerry (or Senator Kerry-Lugar for the unwashed Abduls

) has a lot to account for! The bill that allows aid to Pakistan carries his name!

It will be quite difficult to manage such splits, where Pakistani role becomes ever more clear, for some Congressmen to continue to want to finance Pakistan. The American politicians would have to somehow paint the Pakistani civilian government as some sort of totally out of the loop and innocent, while singling out the Pakistani military establishment for the guilt and punishment! But even this would be on unsure grounds. A senator could have his name severely tarnished should he allow money to Pakistan.

Any money whatsoever to the Pakistani military would be a lot more difficult to justify! Of course it may seem like a tactical requirement, but who wants to be seen to be shaking hands with those who shook hands with OBL and still hope that it would not be used to bury his reelection bid!

sum · Post by **sum** » 03 May 2011 15:41

^^ Neela-avare, are you saying that the Congress will block the funds to Pak?
Me thinks wont happens and some lame "we will ensure it is accounted" statements will be made and the $$ promptly disbursed..These seem to be just pressure tactics to yield more now that some blood has been smelt by Unkil and all this "might stop aid" etc will vanish from the papers faster than it appeared after a few days and few more wanted scalps handed over to US by ISI.

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 03 May 2011 15:50

The problem with Pakistan-US is that after 9/11, US made the decision to embrace the snake. At that point they had a real choice- Pakistan had been abandoned after 1993; they didn't have to go back to it. But they made the choice, and they're finding that once you and the snake have embraced, you are stuck with it, for better or worse, and if you're going to extricate yourself, it will be very, very slowly.

At the time the US already knew that ISI had created Taliban. They figured "keep your friends close and your enemies closer". They thought they could use Pakistan's connections to its child to kill that child. But they discovered that a parent will always ensure that her child survives in a fashion.

So now, all that noise is just the beginnings of trying to extricate themselves from the Af-Pak labyrinth.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 03 May 2011 15:53

increasingly i get the feeling that pakistan has sold or is post-fact selling out OBL to america, to buy america's exit from strategic_depth_istan
somewhere in pindi someone is sensing opportunity

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 03 May 2011 15:57

Lalmohan wrote:increasingly i get the feeling that pakistan has sold or is post-fact selling out OBL to america, to buy america's exit from strategic_depth_istan
somewhere in pindi someone is sensing opportunity

They would never have sold him from Abbottabad in a US helo raid. The loss of izzat involved in this type of thing is far too great when their are easier options. Post-fact selling may be a possibility, but then what are you selling? The goods have already left. At most you are selling "I will allow you to take what you've already got." Which isn't worth much.

If anything, it feels like US wants Pakistan to pay for harboring Bin Laden in a safehouse. The rhetoric is loud and noisy from the US side, and muted and meek from the Paki side.

wamanrao · Post by **wamanrao** » 03 May 2011 15:59

Psy Ops Opportunity

BBC World have your say / Live program has this topic today:

On air at 1100GMT : What does bin Laden's death mean for Pakistan?

You can call in live to the show.

Email us at [email protected]

Phone: +44 20 70 83 72 72

Text: +44 77 86 20 60 80

Tweet: @BBC_WHYS

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 03 May 2011 16:01

RajeshA wrote:Senator John Kerry (or Senator Kerry-Lugar for the unwashed Abduls ) has a lot to account for! The bill that allows aid to Pakistan carries his name!

It will be quite difficult to manage such splits, where Pakistani role becomes ever more clear, for some Congressmen to continue to want to finance Pakistan. The American politicians would have to somehow paint the Pakistani civilian government as some sort of totally out of the loop and innocent, while singling out the Pakistani military establishment for the guilt and punishment! But even this would be on unsure grounds. A senator could have his name severely tarnished should he allow money to Pakistan.

Any money whatsoever to the Pakistani military would be a lot more difficult to justify! Of course it may seem like a tactical requirement, but who wants to be seen to be shaking hands with those who shook hands with OBL and still hope that it would not be used to bury his reelection bid!

Oh that cartoon with Musharraf receiving aid and the jihadis placing the bomb behind Uncle sam's arse ...what an apt moment for that cartoon.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 03 May 2011 16:09

sum wrote:^^ Neela-avare, are you saying that the Congress will block the funds to Pak?
Me thinks wont happens and some lame "we will ensure it is accounted" statements will be made and the $$ promptly disbursed..These seem to be just pressure tactics to yield more now that some blood has been smelt by Unkil and all this "might stop aid" etc will vanish from the papers faster than it appeared after a few days and few more wanted scalps handed over to US by ISI.

Sum, I just have a feeling that the bubble has been broken. Association with or support to TSP will be seen as treachery from now on. Far too many articles and programs on TV have openly questioned TSP's role.All said and done, any elected official will be trying to save his skin first.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 May 2011 16:33

There have been many occasions in the past when questions have been raised about Pakistan and yet the US-TSP relationship has remained intact. In 1998, Pakistan betrayed American cruise missile attacks to bin Laden. Lt. Gen Mahmood Ahmed, ISI Chief, wired 100,000 USD through Omar Saeed Sheikh to the 9/11 terrorists. Earlier, in c. 1993, they refused to collect back the Stinger missiles and came close to being branded as a terrorist state by the Americans. The same gentleman, when sent in to negotiate surrender terms with the Taliban, did the opposite. Since c. 2002, on numerous occasions, US Commanders have openly accused the PA/ISI of conspiracy, double-cross and distrust. The Pakistanis have openly protected the Quetta & the Haqqani Shura even withstanding tremendous pressure and threats from the US and refused to take any action against them. These are in recent times, but if we study their relationship for 50 years now, the pattern has been similar. The US-TSP relationship may go through ups and downs and we SDREs may interpret that in our own way, but this relationship has an enduring quality about it.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 May 2011 16:51

From The Hindu editorial on OBL

In India, which has tried to overcome the public's hostility towards Pakistan over the Mumbai attacks through a series of peace moves under the personal initiative of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, it will certainly be hoped that the death of bin Laden strengthens the hands of those forces in Pakistan who want their state to shut the door on militancy, extremism, and terrorism once and for all. While it may be tempting to see bin Laden's killing at Abbottabad as confirmation of India's worst fears, New Delhi must resist the temptation to crow, and must push ahead with the peace process with the civilian government of Pakistan.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 03 May 2011 16:59

In my opinion the only way to break this us-pak-love-hate cycle is to break pakistan. Create Balochistan; base US/Indian forces there and give up remaining pak to china. Otherwise giving up entire pakistan is too much of a strategic failure to US...just like it was India for the British.

sum · Post by **sum** » 03 May 2011 17:08

Ronen Sen ( somehow surprised that he uttered such "hawkish" things) was on NDTV yesterday and when Burkha-di asked if India should try such a thing ( with a smile since she knew the answers from her WKK+Paki panel), Ronen sen mentioned that India should make up its mind on how to deal with pak instead of vacillating and once mind is made up, act unilaterally towards it (either hard or soft options). Needless to say, Burkha was left speechless for a couple of minutes.

sum · Post by **sum** » 03 May 2011 17:10

In India, which has tried to overcome the public's hostility towards Pakistan over the Mumbai attacks through a series of peace moves under the personal initiative of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh,

Errr, shouldn't the PM of a democratic country be following the general mood of the public? Why would one want to try something which is against the public mood?

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 03 May 2011 17:11

How can you watch her? I stopped long long back (26/11/2008 to be precise). Makes me to throw up.

sum · Post by **sum** » 03 May 2011 17:13

Was switching channels when Ronen Sen caught my eye and so, NDTV was on for a full 2 minutes ( rare occasion for my TV). I share your aversion for BD. Just changed the channel when Ronen was done speaking.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 03 May 2011 17:17

sum wrote:
In India, which has tried to overcome the public's hostility towards Pakistan over the Mumbai attacks through a series of peace moves under the personal initiative of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh,
Errr, shouldn't the PM of a democratic country be following the general mood of the public? Why would one want to try something which is against the public mood?

lets avoid self-goals however tempting it might be...

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 03 May 2011 17:24

Interview with John Brennan on NPR

Administration is already trying to downplay Pakistani perfidy in the face of domestic grilling. Sounds like softpedaling mode has begun, so US-Pak relationship is still in precarious equilibrium.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 03 May 2011 17:30

No, actually thats a legitimate question I have been asking to myself. Lets assume for an instance that MMS intention is to check-mate pak. Although is method is not approved by the public. Now in this current era a lot of information is available to public where we can analyze things on our own. Then how come a small group of people be so right when a mighty large section is against it? chalo, I give some points to MMS for knowing inside things. But again, are those "inside secrets" are so shattering that they are tilting the opinion of MMS in completely opposite direction? Is there not a possibility that he is wrong? If so then what is the probability? I guess very close to 1.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 03 May 2011 17:32

US-Pak's Afghan deal behind Osama hunt'
http://www.rediff.com/news/report/osama ... 110503.htm

Adrian Levy, the internationally famed journalist currently with The Guardian, and author of bestseller Deception: Pakistan, the United States, and the Global Nuclear Weapons Conspiracy, claims that a deal between Pakistan and the United States is in the offing, under which Pakistan will have some role in the future government of Afghanistan.

Levy says that Pakistan is a serious force in the American view of the Kabul endgame.The death of Al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden and the endgame in Afghanistan might be linked.

Levy, in an e-mail interview to rediff.com, said that Pakistan would also get more military supplies and political freedom after a successful US operation in Pakistan.

When asked, "Do you see the issue of Jammu and Kashmir catching fresh fire?" Levy, who is currently writing a book on Kashmir, said, "J&K has become increasingly Islamist, with powerful influences from Deobandis, who are radicalising politics, and holding sway over an increasing number of youth. I think there is every likelihood of a backlash in J&K, and that small pockets might seize on this."

We asked, why has Pakistan given away their 'trump card' (Osama bin Laden) to the US and if this the best 'time' to offer Osama to Obama?

Levy said, he is not clear why it happened now. He said, "We will have to wait until the dust settles; but Pakistan is in crisis, economically and politically. It has just received a kicking from the Central Intelligence Agency and the Pentagon . It may well be that there is a thin strata that wants to turn this around. If this was the case Pakistan would need to conceal the full scale of its involvement to avoid a backlash."

"I think a deal is in the offing, which revolves around military supplies and political freedom. I think Afghanistan looms large too, in terms of Pakistan's role in influencing the formation of a future government there," he added.

If this is true, India need to develop its own SEALS and eliminate Kiya Nahis and Pashas on their own. If the stupid people in west offer Pukes to rape and loot Afghanistan in return for Osama's head, we better start ready to defend India or be nuked into oblivion by Puke trash.

Madhusudhan · Post by **Madhusudhan** » 03 May 2011 17:46

wow - USG is definitely full fledged Pakistan recovery mode - Congressman Rodgers and Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez are on CNN spouting utter crap about "There are good people in Pakistan and there are bad people in Pakistan"... "Remember Pakistan sent troops into Waziristan", etc... Oh well I had a few hours of hope that Pakistani perfidy would be exposed and laid out for all to see.. But it looks like the US cares about the GUBO relationship more than its own people - Perhaps the USG gets pleasure out of GUBO...

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 May 2011 17:53

'A Clean Break from past' in India-TSP trade talks

Talking to Business Line here after his two-day visit to Islamabad late last week, Dr Khullar {Indian Commerce Secretary} said that in terms of progress in bilateral trade and commercial relations, “completely new items have suddenly appeared on the trade agenda — prospects of trade in electricity and prospects of trade in petroleum products”. He said, “we have agreed now not just to look at the feasibility but actually moving these things forward through groups”.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 03 May 2011 17:57

Adrian Levy is speculating. OBL was a trump card of Obama not ISI. This is not a sudden development. Obama waited for the opportunity.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 May 2011 18:00

best way to review funding TSP.. and also put a tight nook around chinese supply lines as well... peche se bhi bandaar, aur abhi age say bhi bandaar... j20 sundar lines are now heckled with their core exposed, and seen with zillions of terror ridden paagots. Now, push china on this terror line, and try to mate their policies.

OBL was a trump card to finesse for next elections, for BHO... but it was only scoped few months back after they knew when to go ahead for the special ops.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 03 May 2011 18:02

If you have been watching US Paki relations for a long time you will realise no matter what TSP does, US will do Jack Sh** against RAPE and Khaki's

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 03 May 2011 18:11

France says Pakistan position on bin Laden lacks clarity

What is clear is that Chanakian French have found a way to pitch in for Rafale in MMRCA, by adhering a political line favorable to India.

Brits are not as chanakian I guess.

West must not start row with Pakistan: David Cameron

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 03 May 2011 18:11

All the US insiders I'm in touch with believe that this was a unilateral US action that has basically turned the tables on TSPA. Even some trenchant critics of Obama have grudging praise for his decision to send troops instead of using drones/missiles to get Bin Laden. The thing is - no one knew which top target was in that building. It could have been Zawahiri, Omar or even the top Haqqani. Plus, there was always a risk of many civilians getting killed without clear confirmation of a top target. Even Bush did not authorize ground troops when stronger intel on Zawahiri was known during Bush's second term. Of course Clinton also did not take risks.

There seems to be evidence that TSPA was informed just before the operation and a lot of direct pressure was put on Kayani to stand down or face the wrath of God. TSPA soldiers were reportedly asking neighboring homes to shut down any lights and also formed a cordon as the operation was concluding. The Helos reportedly came from Afghanistan but refueled at Tarbela-Ghazi army aviation base nearby.

Now, no one expects US to do the same for Mullah Omar or Haqqani but by doing this to Osama, US has put a seed of doubt in Rawalpindi about what lengths it will go to get its targets.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 May 2011 18:23

yeah yeah yeah.. rawngdu.. we have to capitalize on this, and keep the pressure on tsp, where we need it to be applied the most. Now, the special ops has more works on the other gang members.. perhaps, extend another 4 year term for obama.

excellent news for us.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 03 May 2011 18:28

I'm not sure if Manmohanji will capitalize on this. In fact, trust that the opposite will happen. Also, there will be no aid cutoff to TSP or public calling to account for hiding Osama. What this does is to further reduce the space for TSPA to play its games and to decisively cement the notion that TSP=Terrorist in the minds of Joe Blo American and within the lower and mid ranks of the US military. I was talking to usually non-talkative colleagues who were retired US military and all of them had personal stories of TSPA help to kill Americans from their times in Afghanistan. The likes of Mullen will disappear and the new generation will soon take command at top levels. The change against TSPA is happening slowly and this is just one medium sized step jump in a long downward trend for US protection of TSP's terror.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 May 2011 18:32

I am okay with aid going to TSP as long as it is channelized by ever presence of khan helos in the region.

Now, our opposition if they have any brains left, must capitalize on this at the very least.

It is always best to aid to the levels high enough.. and then suddenly drop them. [condom]

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 03 May 2011 18:33

Pakistani jet fighter crashes

A Pakistani air force jet fighter crashed Tuesday afternoon in the Kot Shakir area of Jhang district in the country's eastern province of Punjab, reported local English TV Channel Express.

The report quoted an official with Pakistan Air Force (PAF) as saying that a Mirage combat aircraft of PAF was on its routine rehearsal flight in the Jhang district of Punjab province when the pilot lost its control over the plane due to some technical problem.

The pilot ejected safely before the plane crashed in the desert area of the district, said the official.

---

army heli crashes near tarbela ghazi; SM killed, a Col badly injured.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 03 May 2011 18:34

^ I agree with Rman

MMS govt did not capitalize on the public outcry that came after 26/11. India could have done reasonable damage to Paki EchNdee if it went aggressive. Not that it will change things drastically or solve problems, but it could have made the intent clear at the least.

We could have continued with the Kasab saga and all this a-man-ki-asha even after such an aggressive action.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 03 May 2011 18:35

Kayani needs one more open letter from Col. Puri

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 03 May 2011 18:41

Meanwhile, in the land of pakhandis (Paki H&Ds), PAF fighter jet crashes in Jhang

Don't believe the photo that accompanies this news piece. Its a mirage (no, really!) that crashed (and not an F-16). Here's what the news article had to say:

According to PAF spokesman, the fighter jet Mirage crashed during military exercises at Machhi road Khoshab due to some technical faults. The pilot managed to save his life.Thanks be to Allah who knows all!

But the real reason to quote this news piece is to create some of our pre-pre-kanspi-racy theories:

1. How far is Jhang from Abort-a-bad? Hmmmmm.
2. Was this a regularly scheduled military exercise? And why within 24 hours after the "birds" have flown and "the horses" have bolted? Hmmmm.
3. Did the Americans use jinn power to jam all paki communications and the jamming effect lasted for more than 48 hours? If they can cause all the floods and earthquakes, then why not this? Hmmmm
4. When will we receive the next tranche of our much promised aid? We demand to know. No, better still, we deserve to know.
5. Will Meera seek exit...Oops Sorry. This theory belongs in another thread.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 03 May 2011 18:44

shravan wrote:Pakistani jet fighter crashes

A Pakistani air force jet fighter crashed Tuesday afternoon in the Kot Shakir area of Jhang district in the country's eastern province of Punjab, reported local English TV Channel Express. The report quoted an official with Pakistan Air Force (PAF) as saying that a Mirage combat aircraft of PAF was on its routine rehearsal flight in the Jhang district of Punjab province when the pilot lost its control over the plane due to some technical problem. The pilot ejected safely before the plane crashed in the desert area of the district, said the official.
---
army heli crashes near tarbela ghazi; SM killed, a Col badly injured.

These are all after effects of the jinn jamming that the Americans used two nights ago to disable paki communications networks. Hmmm.. Jana bibi, are you listening/trolling? Food for thought, for you "paki journalistic types".

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 03 May 2011 18:46

partha wrote:"Bin Laden moved into Abottabad only recently": Wajid Ul Hasan. I am sure he hired the best real estate broker in the city to find this million dollar mansion.

Yes, Kakul Makanwale - Mil to lein! (business practice conforms to ISI 2001)

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 03 May 2011 18:49

Charlie wrote:Dawn : US closes embassies in Paa'stan

Two counsulates closed to the general public, i.e., unwashed abduls of the paki variety.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 03 May 2011 18:49

Risk of failure in a ground Operation apart, the earlier Presidents were handicapped by advisers within their administration who were sympathetic to TSPA. They also feared the reaction from an ally who was a key player in GWOT. Make no mistake even Obama would have done the same. The circumstances are different now. CIA and ISI have had some major differences after the attack on CIA station chief. Drone attacks have reached breakeven. Obama had a point to prove to republicans and the American public. He took his best option. As an Indian I would settle for what he has done to Pakistan and its H&D. For that, we need to cut him some slack.

saip · Post by **saip** » 03 May 2011 18:53

Methinks the fighter was shot down by amrikhans and the pakis are just revealing this.

vanand · Post by **vanand** » 03 May 2011 19:09

I feel Pakistan is fast reaching a culminating point. On watching one month event
1. Shuja Pasha shortcut visit to US
2. Michael mullen visit to pak
3. US killing Osama
4. US & PAK reactions
can any one correlate and predict how pak will reach a culminating point