News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 May 2011 21:49

Lalmohan wrote:so, gilani is threatening his biggest benefactor with overt war...
and he is the army's mouthpiece too...
gauntlet is being thrown down...

Naaah! It's like a scared me getting my 5 year old son to tell the muscle man "I'll bash you". The man may die laughing but he won;t hit me.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 May 2011 22:05

It was a psychological deterrent of a different kind [off geronimo thought flow], and we would never have to do anything actually -[no agreement/contract/sales or scratch backs]. It further rakes up our enemy minds, where their current relationship does not explicitly think that would happen.

not posted to hinder the thread in any way, but just thought if some paki lurker happen to read.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 09 May 2011 22:15

Now the dilemma is whether to 72 this thread or keep going on?

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 09 May 2011 22:19

Welll Bin laden did meet his 72, so I would vote for 72 onlee

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 09 May 2011 22:19

^^^I rather think that OBL's demise should be the kind of gift that keeps giving.

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 09 May 2011 22:21

Deleted by Author.
Please refer to this post insted http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 5#p1087145

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 09 May 2011 22:28

CIA's likely rented house. There are two or three other possible locations nearby, but this seems best. It could have hidden some commando's ( advance party etc) who probably came over a little earlier.

Tamang · Post by **Tamang** » 09 May 2011 22:32

Video - The failed 2001 mission to kill bin Laden

The secret story of how an elite team of U.S. commandos chased and lost bin Laden's trail at Tora Bora, just ten weeks after 9/11

Just about everyone was surprised to learn that bin Laden had been hiding "in plain sight' for more than five years near the eastern border of Pakistan -- just 40 miles north of the country's capital, Islamabad. For years, conventional wisdom had bin Laden hiding in a cave or small village somewhere far west of there, perhaps in the mountains of Afghanistan.

You might remember that not long after the 9/11 attacks, bin Laden was in that area and he was very nearly killed there. Scott Pelley has the riveting story of the Tora Bora battle and the mission that failed to catch bin Laden, as told by a top secret American commando who was there.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 09 May 2011 22:40

Ravi Karumanchiri wrote:^^^I rather think that OBL's demise should be the kind of gift that keeps giving.

+1 on the account of continuous saga of pati patni aur woh. Anyone can fit any role

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 May 2011 22:46

Ravi K, Please use this thread for your quest...

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 5#p1087145

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 09 May 2011 22:53

itihaas gawah hai - paida karnewale se jyada haqq palnewala ka hota hai - hence for OSAMA PAKISTAN is more responsible then US

http://twitter.com/#!/jemin_p

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 May 2011 23:00

sweet..

Gilani also insisted that Pakistan's response to the sudden arrival of U.S. forces in the nighttime operation deserves praise. "The Air Force was ordered to scramble. Ground units arrived at the scene quickly. Our response demonstrates that our armed forces reacted, as was expected of them." Still, he added, "there is no denying the U.S. technological ability to evade our radars."

no takers for this:-

"Any attack against Pakistan's strategic assets whether overt or covert will find a matching response," Gilani said. "Pakistan reserves the right to retaliate with full force. No one should underestimate the resolve and capability of our nation and armed forces to defend our sacred homeland."

except some batting by:

Obama said, "We think that there had to be some sort of support network for bin Laden inside of Pakistan. But we don't know who or what that support network was."

"More importantly," he added, "the Pakistani government has to investigate."

...and they did:-

Dozens of people in Abbottabad have been arrested because of their suspected connections to the compound where bin Laden was shot and killed

oh yeah:-
CIA Director Leon Panetta -- nominated by Obama to succeed Robert Gates as defense secretary -- told House members during a closed-door briefing that Pakistan was

"either involved or incompetent,"

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/0 ... tml?hpt=C1

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 May 2011 23:07

Inapt headline but has good insights

Wimpish India may lose Great Game

Wimpish India may lose the Great Game
Swapan Dasgupta
08 May 2011, 01:36 AM IST

A week after 9/11, when an angry United States was planning fierce retribution against Osama bin Laden and his Taliban hosts, General Pervez Musharraf made a televised speech on the choices facing Pakistan. In a rambling address, Musharraf drew inspiration from the early history of Islam. The Prophet, he reminded viewers, had negotiated the Treaty of Hudaibiya with the Quraish of Mecca. The truce may have seemed a climb down and an admission of weakness but it offered the army of Islam the elbow room to spread the faith throughout the Arabian Peninsula. It was an invigorated Islam that finally regained Mecca.

The implication was obvious: confronted by a superpower that bluntly demanded Pakistan should choose between Us and Them, Musharraf was effecting a tactical retreat. To Musharraf, the U-turn in Afghanistan didn’t signal any strategic shift or emotional conversion; it suggested dissimulation based on expediency—the al taqiyya or deception that is theologically sanctioned for the larger good of the faith.

With the encounter in Abbottabad ending an exhaustive manhunt, there must be functionaries in Washington DC who regret not being more attentive to the fine print of Musharraf’s September 2001 speech. It is not that the US and its allies weren’t aware of Pakistan’s penchant for “looking both ways” and facilitating Taliban factions. But its duplicity was sought to be rationalized as wariness of a regime in Kabul that valued India. As the relationship with President Hamid Karzai began souring, it suited western strategists to imagine that Pakistan’s shenanigans were facets of a new Indo-Pak proxy war. With war weariness engulfing the public mood in both the US and Britain, ‘pragmatism’ deemed that Pakistan should have a major say in determining a peace settlement that included the Taliban—as distinct from the al-Qaida. In a speech in February this year, US secretary of state Hillary Clinton even deemed that laying down of arms and acceptance of the Afghan Constitution were no longer prerequisites for dialogue with the Taliban.

Until the May 2 “firefight” spoiled the party, Pakistan believed it was on the cusp of a historic victory. With President Barack Obama having announced a phased withdrawal of US forces from July, Islamabad felt it was just a matter of time before it regained its “strategic depth” in Afghanistan. Its army chief General Kayani was audacious enough to suggest to Karzai last month that his cooperation in a settlement that accommodated the Taliban could even be underwritten by China—a country that has acquired substantial interests in the mineral wealth of Afghanistan.

Of course, it was not all smooth sailing. Pakistan was worried that the Afghan conflict and its quiet encouragement of jihad had triggered a blowback. Some of the Islamist groups nurtured by the ISI to inflict pain on India had developed autonomous agendas and had even begun targeting the Pakistan military. This threat was partially offset by an unexpected bonanza: India’s retreat from its post-26/11 position of ‘no talks’ until Pakistan completely disavowed terrorism. What is now called the “Mohali spirit” was also premised on the convoluted rationale that the process of normalization would bolster Pakistan’s fledgling democracy. However, there is no evidence to suggest that the Pakistani cantonments were worried by this wishful calculation. To them, India’s talks with “useful idiots” of the civilian government merely helped Pakistan look more respectable. It was also a great relief to the western powers that valued both countries: India for business and Pakistan for facilitating its exit from Afghanistan.

Abbottabad has nullified this script. It was one thing for Pakistan to be harbouring Mullah Omar in Quetta, but Osama was another matter altogether. Pakistan’s perfidy hasn’t merely made the US angry; it has been shown to be a sucker. In normal circumstances, India should have been jubilant and telling the world ‘we told you so’—a sentiment echoed by the media and society. Tragically, the latest confirmation of Pakistan’s habitually duplicitous conduct has left Manmohan Singh strangely unmoved. He has instead reaffirmed his faith in Pakistan’s innate goodness—a gesture of monumental magnanimity that is prone to being misconstrued.

India’s wimpish official response to Pakistan’s double-dealing isn’t likely to generate oodles of gratitude. A beleaguered Pakistan has reacted to its own embarrassment with a heady cocktail of victimhood, nationalism and anti-Americanism. Such an outburst can’t be delinked from that country’s pet hates. When it comes to India, Pakistan is often loath to even practice al taqiyya—so profound is its fear of India’s skills of absorption. This may explain Islamabad’s calculated over-reaction to notional threats of Indian special operations. For Pakistan, anti-Indianism is the national adhesive.

Pakistan is still unsure of the extent of Western retribution over its sanctuary to Osama. It is banking on a temporary frostiness that will dissipate in the face of the imminent departure from Afghanistan. Pakistan has reposed faith in the two aces it has up its sleeve: its nuclear assets and its firm alliance with China. The West, it believes, will bark but won’t dare bite.

In the normal course, India would have been an additional pressure point on Pakistan. Having abandoned that option, India has made itself redundant in the Great Game. Singh may yet get to visit his native village in Pakistan. In craving that privilege, he may also secure India’s banishment from Afghanistan and the onward march of China in South Asia.

I dont agree with Swapanda. MMS is playing the right notes. The tiff between US and TSP will evaporate if MMS/GOI makes any hostile moves. Also fear of PRC is exaggerated. The presence of PRC in POK means that TSP is unable to take care of that. A dozen LGBs will isolate them in POK and lead to their own Dien Bien Phu in POK...

If this continues and PRC steps in to prop up TSP in its tiff, then it can get to where we want.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 09 May 2011 23:07

Luxtor wrote: I always suspected OBL was being harboured by the ISI/PA/PG but right outside of Islamabad in a heavily militarized town, in a relatively nice house surrounded by and within few yards of puki army establishments? That my friends takes ba**s or studpidity or arrogance ... or all of the above.

The Institute for Gulf Affairs had predicted that OBL was inside close to the capital of Pakistan long years ago.
On Fox news the director even said that second in command Zawahari is close to India border inside Pakistan.

http://www.gulfinstitute.org/artman/pub ... 2009.shtml
The Gulf Institute’s director pointed Osama Ben Laden hideout in 2009
In November 18, 2009 IGA Director Ali Al-Ahmed spoke at AEI’s Critical Threats briefing concerning Pakistan’s war in Waziristan and the security implications of that conflict.
One of the topics that came up was the location of senior Al-Qaeda leadership. Al-Ahmed gave his own analysis that it was highly unlikely that Bin Laden was in Waziristan or in a mountain hideout citing the example of September 11 masterminded Khalid Sheik Mohammed who was captured in an upscale apartment in Rawalpindi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5Ll_Anx7cI
Al-Ahmed also cited the ties many in Al-Qaeda have to allies in the Pakistani security services. He concluded by remarking that it seemed most likely that Bin Laden would be found in an upscale residence somewhere near Islamabad.
Al-Ahmed's analysis was on target and proven right after the killing of Osama Bin Laden this week in a mansion outside Islamabad.
Al-Ahmed's expertise and knowledge on Bin Laden was evident in November of 2001 when he deciphered the video tape captured by American forces in Kandahar, Afghanistan in a Ben Laden hideout. The Pentagon and the State Department both failed to accurately translate the tape but it was by Al-Ahmed. The story received massive national and international attention.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 May 2011 23:19

I don't think by any means, dragon liquor will help anything now to alleviate paki inflammations. Even at the pisskological level.. the tiff is not anything on the surface, but way deep deep that is paralyzing pakidom to the core. I agree, we don't have to do anything but watch for now.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 09 May 2011 23:35

ramana wrote: Wimpish India may lose Great Game

I dont agree with Swapanda. MMS is playing the right notes. The tiff between US and TSP will evaporate if MMS/GOI makes any hostile moves. Also fear of PRC is exaggerated. The presence of PRC in POK means that TSP is unable to take care of that. A dozen LGBs will isolate them in POK and lead to their own Dien Bien Phu in POK...

If this continues and PRC steps in to prop up TSP in its tiff, then it can get to where we want.

Exactly what I was thinking. We will pick up from the fall out, so we should be playing good now. Anyway, US is asking for Haqqani, Zawahiri & Omar on a platter or else US will embarress TSP again if the Good Ambassador of the US is to be believed.

Haqqani's & Omar ARE TSPs agents for Afghanistan. US is basically asking for a weakened Taleban so that they fracture the taliban (if Omar holds a lot of sway in the ranks/commanders and uniting under the leader). So a weakened taleban will settle for dialogue on Unkils terms and may lay down arms and head for the Indian constructed parliament.

Taking away Haqqani's & Omar means TSP can't take over the whole of afghanistan as they want. This is working out in india's favour.

We need to play good at this point.

- Is it fair to say that Mullah Omar still retains some operational control and is the uniting factor?
- Is it fair to say that the reason why TSPA is so miffed is because US is removing TSPs chances to control its backyard? No wonder Kayani is escalating, he knows that Talebs will turn on the TSPA if Omar is given up (he is probably a red line).

Oh well TSPA is screwed either way.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 09 May 2011 23:41

I said so

RamaY wrote:Thanks pgbhatji!

It is up to TSPA+ISI to choose between humiliation and maturity

jrjrao wrote: Its’ up to Pakistan to decide whether it wants another unilateral action or not: US Ambassador

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 09 May 2011 23:53

Spoke to source - They planned the OBL raid for 2 years and practiced it for 2 friggin years! AoA! They knew he was there for 2 YEARS!!

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 09 May 2011 23:55

^ What took the leaders of the universe 2 years to conduct that raid?

- Masters of the universe were not SEALed enough?
- Took them 2 full years to remove the used condums?
- Were not sure of the potential benefits?
- Waiting for the election season to start?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 May 2011 23:55

And TSPA didnt know that? Or did they make sure he isn't moved for those two years? When was the Ghazi air strip leased to massa?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 09 May 2011 23:58

RamaY wrote:^ What took the leaders of the universe 2 years to conduct that raid?

- Masters of the universe were not SEALed enough?
- Took them 2 full years to remove the used condums?
- Were not sure of the potential benefits?
- Waiting for the election season to start?

This is exactly after the Mumbai attack when they figured out that India is not going to attack Pakistan after all.
Then they knew that they have to do the job themselves. AoA!

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 10 May 2011 00:03

Acharyaji,

You AoAing

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 10 May 2011 00:03

shyamd wrote:Spoke to source - They planned the OBL raid for 2 years and practiced it for 2 friggin years! AoA! They knew he was there for 2 YEARS!!

source plz, but if true..

Its all lies. first quality BS. period

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 10 May 2011 00:06

^^^Rakshaks,

In “honour” of a life spent in strict adherence to Sharia law (excusing a few instances of mass murder – pobody is nerfect, after all), and;

In consideration of the fact that the Shaheeeeeed Osama bin Laden has, after many years (of hiding), finally found his ‘seventy two’, as has this thread, and;

Not losing sight of the fact that OBL was arguably not directing the bulk of his (evil) intentions against India, and is now providing the TSP with much angst;

Instead of suggesting the retirement of this thread at 72-pages; I would like to offer the following (haraam) musical tribute, sung by a son of Mumbai, Freddy Mercury of 'Queen'.

Steve walks warily down the street,
With the brim pulled way down low
Ain't no sound but the sound of his feet,
Machine guns ready to go
Are you ready, Are you ready for this
Are you hanging on the edge of your seat
Out of the doorway the bullets rip
To the sound of the beat

[Chorus]
Another one bites the dust
Another one bites the dust
And another one gone, and another one gone
Another one bites the dust
Hey, I'm gonna get you too
Another one bites the dust

How do you think I'm going to get along,
Without you, when you're gone
You took me for everything that I had,
And kicked me out on my own

Are you happy, are you satisfied
How long can you stand the heat
Out of the doorway the bullets rip
To the sound of the beat

[Chorus]
Another one bites the dust
Another one bites the dust
Another one bites the dust
Another one bites the dust

There are plenty of ways you can hurt a man
And bring him to the ground
You can beat him
You can cheat him
You can treat him bad and leave him
When he's down
But I'm ready, yes I'm ready for you
I'm standing on my own two feet
Out of the doorway the bullets rip
Repeating the sound of the beat

Inshallah, may the long-overdue demise of OBL provide the whole world with fascinating insights into the TSP, and entertaining developments for Bharat Rakshaks, for many, many more pages to come.

AoA!!!

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 10 May 2011 00:07

AOA! this thread meets its 72 exactly a week after Chacha Osaama

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 10 May 2011 00:08

I am the next incarnation of the brophet

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 10 May 2011 00:17

Guys,

here is another one from that Indian RAPE dorkette Bakara reporting from slumBad and giving a TSP POV of things. Why the f%^ck is it of any interest to India I don't know. TSP is harboring anti-India terrorists which should be India's focus. And a random sampling of FFWs, I didn't sense that she would zero in on anything of interest to India

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/ndtv-s ... /199077?hp

Boy, I tell you, there is a huge pro-Paki, Paki sympathizing constituency in India. More than I thought.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 10 May 2011 00:24

CRamS wrote:
Boy, I tell you, there is a huge pro-Paki, Paki sympathizing constituency in India. More than I thought.

Its Stockholm syndrome. Plain and Simple.There are remedies for that and all are well documented.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 10 May 2011 00:42

Altair wrote: Its Stockholm syndrome. Plain and Simple.There are remedies for that and all are well documented.

Putting on a Paki sympathizing view: we lost some many troops onlee, we are front line all-lie onlee, US used us onlee etc etc with not even a single question about their crimes against India (harboring Dawood, Hafeez etc) reeks of naievety at one extreme, and anti-India pro-Paki predilection at the other. Its like talking about a rapist, but not talking about his crime, rather his other travails in life. Why the f%&ck should the victim care?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 May 2011 00:46

Anyone note that there is another major casualty of the OBL raid? The US based chatterati who push the TSP case from DC. Anyone hear from Uneven Cohen, Michael Krapon or others of their ilk? They all lost their credibility. The Indo-US dialog on Yahoo groups is quiet like they lost their fundamental legitimacy. And worthies like Powell are incoherent on TV.

Not gloating, but unquiet satisfaction.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 10 May 2011 00:51

From this beeb-story

Who was the courier who led US to Osama Bin Laden?

"On several occasions I saw what looked like bullet-proof, four-wheel-drive vehicles coming to the house. I never saw the main gate of the house stay open one second longer than it needed to let a vehicle pass in or out," he said.

400% baki jernails coming to visit their amir.....

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 10 May 2011 00:52

There are a few things that are funny about this raid.
A. I tend to believe what each party is saying, because when they say things in the full glare of the media, their statements are recorded for posterity and they will be careful about lying.
B. After the embarrassment that the Pakistanis have suffered, one can understand their need to spin things so that things don't look so bad. They are in a difficult situation and have decided that it is better to shut up instead of officially making a statement, because anything they say will anger one side or the other.

I will assume the following as true unless proven otherwise:
1. The Pakistani were in fact hiding Osama Bin Laden.
2. The ISI - or a very small section of the ISI would be involved, some would be 'retired' ISI officers. Pakistan it seems has a system in place, where ISI officers 'retire' from the army to indulge in 'special' operations, and continue to draw their pay from the Jihadis instead of the Army.
3. Someone very high up - either Kiyani or both Kiyani and Pasha knew OBL's location. Amrullah Saleh says that Pasha himself knew, and that he liked to keep his daily briefs of the men under hiding 'simple'.
4. Apart from the ISI, OBL would have a very close circle of loyalists who would be protecting him. But here the utmost importance was to keep the whole operation low key so as to not draw unnessary attention. In the early days of his being under hiding, I am sure that his protection would have been much more stringent. The 30 odd ring of bodyguards would have been more omnipresent. But as time grew, and the Pakistanis started with their smokes and mirrors game about a sick OBL who was possibly dead and even if barely alive would be in the border regions. This probably lead to the security detail being toned down gradually as they became more confident.

Now look at the following.
1. The US has agents on the ground sniffing at every corner in Pakistan. The US is offering money, a new life in the US, witness protection deals to anyone offering information. There are several pakistanis on their payroll.
2. Once they actually lock on to Al Kuwaiti, it is a matter of time that they reach the Kohat hideout.
Them reaching out to Al Kuwaiti is probably not due to that one single call made from the cellphone story, but more likely to have been multiple parallel investigations leading them to trace Al Kuwaiti.
Now if we look at the kind of reports that were available to the Americans, the Afghans had actually snooped around that safehouse, while India had said that OBL was probably in a cantonment area.
3. Later on CIA actually deployed a team close to OBL's safehouse, and they did their job in an area that was under ISI surveillence as described by the locals. The locals mentioned that the ISI would check IDs of people moving around after dark in that area. It seems that security in that area was tight without being too intrusive or obtrusive, movements of people were watched, and newcomers were probably screened.
That would be routine ISI modus operendi around a safe house meant for a high value target. But again that probably means that the common foot soldier ISI operative on the ground would not have known that OBL was in there - this was need to know information way above his pay grade.
4. Would the local ISI commander know? Probably yes! And he would have a very small team of serving and retired ISI men who would know and would be doing all the running around and making any arrangements if they were needed.

Now here is where it gets funny.
1. The US couldn't have sent in helos in the middle of the night into a sleepy town for 40 minutes without the ISI, Army chief not knowing that they had hit OBL's safehouse.
2. The ISI could not detect the CIA operatives who were probably on the ground for a couple of months!
3. I have an interesting theory about Raymond Davis - the LET HQ in Muridke, just outside Lahore has a guest house that OBL got built for his stay with his own money. Perhaps RD was checking on people who were watching that safehouse. Now the ISI detected Raymond Davis, but they didn't detect the CIA operatives who were watching OBL?
4. If the ISI chief or the COAS had suspected anything funny, they would have gotten OBL shifted, they would have sanitized that house of all possible leads and intel. Once the US was on the site, there was nothing they could do other than curse under their breath and give up OBL. But the main point is that neither Pasha nor Kiyani suspected anything. The US not only killed OBL but got valuable intel, and everyone is browing their pants in Pakistan wondering what intel the US has in its possession now. (A highly educated man who has changed the world, and is lonely, in hiding and on the run might be an avid diary writer for all we know!!!

)

I can theorize one possibility here where all these contradictions might somehow fit in.

A small group of ISI operatives sold out to the US, there is a mole in that small group of ISI operatives who were tasked to protect OBL. The mole(s) gave up OBL to the US without the higher ups knowing. This mole / These moles ensured that the CIA wasn't detected in that area, conditions were made ripe so that the US's raid had every possible chance of success, gave intel to the US / CIA of the surrounding area.

Several pointers hint at this possibility.
1. The Pakistani establishment (army and the ISI) seemed to have been caught off guard that the US did this. The US probably told them once they were out of pakistan's borders.
2. People in the know - like Musharraf, are talking about incompetence. Any guesses what they are actually indicating? Musharraf was blaming the local ISI chief for incompetence. There is probably an internal investigation on to locate the source of the leak.
3. The Pakistanis are trying to make this backstabbing incident into a virtue, by saying that infact they helped the CIA to reach OBL.
4. Since this was an intel leak, the US wasn't 100% sure that OBL was there, but then they were reasonably sure by having several pointers indicating OBL's presence. The satellites would have picked up a six footer man walking about in the compound, someone who never left that compound. Al Kuwaiti was OBL's chaperone and he was himself present in that compound. The house itself fit the profile of a safehouse for a high value target. And finally the ISI moles had probably indicated that OBL was present.

In the end the US was reasonably convinced so as to launch such an audacious raid.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 10 May 2011 01:03

shyamd wrote:Spoke to source - They planned the OBL raid for 2 years and practiced it for 2 friggin years! AoA! They knew he was there for 2 YEARS!!

If true, that is just sad. These Americans have way too much money to waste and only paki jernails seem to know how to use it. As I was commenting inside purqa fora, once the initial fun-speak has worn off, this operation was nothing but dealing "an encounter death" to bin Laden. I mean, they did what a pot-belly posse from my local police station would do - push in the door at midnight, shoot a sleepy guy and make off with his valuables as "evidence" before a mob gathers.... Why train for two years for this?

Just because they dropped by on well-painted, angular helicopters and wore lots of gadgets on fitted-dresses doesnt take away the fact that they killed him in a fake encounter(as per their own account, he was unarmed and hiding behind his goat) and disposed off his body in a water body to destroy evidence

Not that I am complaining, just wish to point out on why we are not hearing any "inquries by oiropean diplomats" into this ketchup operation?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 10 May 2011 01:07

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ma ... istan-deal

The US and Pakistan struck a secret deal almost a decade ago permitting a US operation against Osama bin Laden on Pakistani soil similar to last week's raid that killed the al-Qaida leader, the Guardian has learned.

The deal was struck between the military leader General Pervez Musharraf and President George Bush after Bin Laden escaped US forces in the mountains of Tora Bora in late 2001, according to serving and retired Pakistani and US officials.

Under its terms, Pakistan would allow US forces to conduct a unilateral raid inside Pakistan in search of Bin Laden, his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, and the al-Qaida No3. Afterwards, both sides agreed, Pakistan would vociferously protest the incursion.

"There was an agreement between Bush and Musharraf that if we knew where Osama was, we were going to come and get him," said a former senior US official with knowledge of counterterrorism operations. "The Pakistanis would put up a hue and cry, but they wouldn't stop us."

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 10 May 2011 01:11

ramana wrote:And TSPA didnt know that? Or did they make sure he isn't moved for those two years? When was the Ghazi air strip leased to massa?

Just watched a BBC documentary on the operation - they showed an interview of Hillary Clinton on May 9th 2010 and lends credence to Source. She said it herself that they know where he is and they know Pak knows. Which pretty much throws water over the Obama version of the story that they only in knew since August 2010.

Funny thing is - People believe the official narrative. How stupid do you think the west is? They know Pak is involved in this.

Why do the operation now? I don't know.

RajeshG · Post by **RajeshG** » 10 May 2011 01:13

I dont think there was any doubt about OBL being under TSP protection - not to anybody who had even an iota of understanding.

The exact place will not be known to the entire ISI or TSPA or Zardari/Gilani. That doesnt make sense - plausible deniability requires that such things are done at an arms length.

I am also convinced that TSPA very quickly came to know about the commencement of raid as it started happening.

I am also convinced that sometime within that 40 minutes even Kayani was up and on the phone getting live updates as to what was going on.

I am also convinced that there was a real fear on Kayani's part that the yanks will escalate.

At the same time I am equally convinced that even if the local ISI protection squad had called for 100 or so reinforcements and lobbed a few grenades in the compound and atleast prevented the helos from going away the game could have gone on as before.

Kayani & co must be totally frustrated at failing to call the yankee bluff and coming out looking like hijdaa. Thats what the heart-burning is all about. The TSPA are TFTA mards no more - they are hijdaas...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 May 2011 01:15

A-Gupta,

As expected selling the other Muhajir by Pakajabi is in process thru the Guardian report!

Mushy is the other bakra.

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 10 May 2011 01:17

^^^Dear Gagan, I must respectfully disagree with your assessment immediately above.

I think you are not considering the fact that any ISI operative entrusted with the knowledge of OBL’s whereabouts very definitely would have had an “excellent pedigree” as an ISI operative; and probably also his loved ones well within the reach of the ISI hierarchy. The possibility of a deep-cover mole being inserted anywhere into this chain of command is farfetched in the extreme, IMHO.

Also, I think you are not considering what is very likely a well-developed ‘Professional Reliability Program’ within the ISI (just as with all of your better spy agencies around the world). In brief; the ISI will have a department similar to an ‘Internal Affaires’ operation in a police force, tasked with investigating other ISI officers, to ensure their reliability. Periodically, they will stage a seemingly bona fide attempt to turn an ISI officer, and if that officer fails to report it to his commanding officer, then they ‘can’ (or kill) him for his unreliability and treachery.

I am sure that the men in-the-know about OBL’s whereabouts all those years, would have faced similar ‘counter-counter-intelligence’ measures, to ensure their loyalty.

Any ISI officer thinking of cashing in OBL for those $50M USDs, would have been discovered long before he had the chance.

JMT.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 10 May 2011 01:19

Another consequence of Operation Geronimo has been that Pakistan now has two militaries to worry about - US and Indian militaries!

Any incursion into Pakistan, where Pakistan cannot identify who is transgressing, would put the Pakistanis off balance, unable to formulate a correct response!

Would the Pakistanis like to attack India, when they later on find out that the incursion was from the Americans? It may be that India too would retaliate with full force! Pakistanis would basically start a war with India for no provocation from the Indians! Similarly if India were to start a raid against Pakistan, say something similar to Operation Geronimo or something else, Pakistanis could still be thinking that it is the Americans!

This presents India with a good and a bad scenario. The bad scenario would be if Pakistan starts an unprovoked war with India due to some misunderstanding. The good part is that because Pakistan may now need to first confirm the nature of the incursion or military aggression before simply attacking India or USA??? it gives India a military edge, and allows India too to carry out incursions into Pakistan.

From now on, Pakistani Army has two hostile neighbors, and that is unnerving!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 May 2011 01:21

RajeshG, The US just handed a strategic defeat for TSPA and showed the common kabila resident that the guards can't protect them any more. No longer sword of Islam or Saif ul Islam. They are a bunch of suars (pigs like in Orwell's 1984) playing with swords. Good for beating up local residents and stealing aid.

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Ravi K, You give too much credit for the pigs. The $50M will be shared all the way up to Kiyani as hafta. Msuhy's squeals on TV are per the playbook. He is the one who first created the deal for OBL.

Why dont you come up with your scenario?