China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

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abhishek_sharma
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by abhishek_sharma »

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Last edited by abhishek_sharma on 22 May 2011 09:04, edited 1 time in total.
Pratyush
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Pratyush »

shiv wrote:Not the Yuan class? Let me guess. The Renminbi class?
Looks like a photo shop job to me, the conning tower is too large when compared to the rest of the boat.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by shiv »

Rakesh wrote:
hnair wrote:A very dry sub, even a foot below waterline. And very crisp waves lapping its fine lines..... 8)
Oh my goodness...that picture is photoshopped. I never realised that. That pic is a fake!! So much for that new Chinese sub!
No No its real. This is a terrible new threat. Get me my dhoti or shalwar so I can quake in there.
hnair
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by hnair »

Rakesh-saar, of course one smells pakistaniyat when even ashi-xiaojie does a downhill ski like above... :lol:
Austin
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Austin »

ashi wrote:The thing is, how do you know it is a degraded kilo? You could be right, that thing may be a photoshopped product.
The kilo you buy today will definately be better than the kilo you bought a decade back which is what exactly the PLAN did , Kilo model are constantly getting upgraded with the latest russian kilo designated 636-03 for BSF shows few design features of Amur.

Vietnam have ordered their Kilo 636 much later then chinese did and hence any kilo vietnam ordered will end up better then chinese or indian model and design and technology progress in the decade will get reflected in newer subs.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Samay »

If Singapore purchases the P-3, it is likely to get former U.S. Navy P-3Cs in a similar configuration to the P-3Cs that Taiwan is getting from 2012 onward, Jarvis says. Taiwan already has S-70 ASW helicopters.

Asian countries consider boosting their ASW capabilities an urgent matter because of China’s submarine fleet and increased assertiveness.
US and china go singing and dancing together
Indian companies arent too far either
rohitvats
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by rohitvats »

saip wrote:Rohit:

What part did Lt Gen B M Kaul play in this? I know he took a lot of blame for the debacle and when he wrote the book 'The Untold Story' he blamed everyone except himself for it. The joke I heard about the book was it should have been left untold!
He was in cahoots with Menon - he was made Chief of General Staff (CGS) inspite of him being from ASC and that he had never seen combat. It is widely accepted that he was brilliant but his lack of combat exposure and from being non-combat arm made his plans unrealistic. He was favorite of Nehru (like Menon) and ran Army like his fiefdom (especially after Thimayya retired as COAS). COAS General Thapar was more of a rubber stamp and went along with all that Kaul said. Kaul interfered with the functioning of IV Corps and went to the extent of deciding on the positioning of platoons in forward areas. He was the main proponent of Fprward Policy along with Menon and Mallik. The ill-fated siting of pickets in forward areas in Ladakh and NEFA were all their doing. The deployment of 7 Brigade under Brigadier John Dalvi to 'throw the Chinese out" and maintain status-quo were all the doing of this coeteire with Kaul in the lead.
abhik
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by abhik »

Rakesh wrote:
hnair wrote:A very dry sub, even a foot below waterline. And very crisp waves lapping its fine lines..... 8)
Oh my goodness...that picture is photoshopped. I never realised that. That pic is a fake!! So much for that new Chinese sub!
Hydrophobic sub! :rotfl:
Gerard
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Gerard »

Given that Chinese SSBNs have never made a single deterrent patrol, Photoshop may be a more cost effective method of R+D.
shiv
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by shiv »

Yo Chinese lurkers - here is a video of your favorite prostitute, Pakistan. How can you guys have a relationship with such morons. I mean don't you guys feel embarrassed the way your leaders protect this whore? You all are so keen on showing off tech and all - but your biggest fan and biggest military export customer is .... TADAAA < drumroll> Pakistan. :rotfl:

The Title of the video is: "Worlds most powerful army China and Pakistan "
The text says:
Pakistan is a peaceful and islamic country with freedom of religion. Because of Pakistani army, Europe and USA are safe from terrorists. They fight against terrorists threats and helps protecting people. Pakistan's neighboor is China and they are brothers to Pakistan. Terrorists are satanic people damaging other people and the pakistani islamic army protects them.

See? Without Pakistan your army would be nothing - your whore says so.

The video has an image of the futuristic Chinese FC-20 aircraft with advanced electronic DSI tech. Someone please make my day and ask me what that means. I post the link here but don't bother watching the video. It's dead boring. Skip it unless you must see this mythical FC-20 at 1 min 14 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0BOd0mYWBw
Surya
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Surya »

rohit

the interesting thing is Anil Kaul is a relative (nephew)and am sure that would have had some interesting dynamics.
rohitvats
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by rohitvats »

We've been discussing sino-india 1962 for a while now.

I wanted to share these excerpts on the bravery of Major Pant and 2nd Rajput at Namka-Chu. Men like him had to pay with their lives because of mistakes made by a few - and because of the sacrifice men like him we're able to reach the level that we're at today.

Please do take-out couple of minutes to read through them:

Image

Image

Mods, request you to please let the pics be.
Gaur
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Gaur »

^^
I really thank you for posting this. It is a great honour to even read about such men.
Surya
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Surya »

there is an article on BR on the whole battle

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORC ... Namka.html


The Rajputs took the brunt of the beginning and the end
chackojoseph
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by chackojoseph »

For those who have not read Nathu La 1965 tiff
abhishek_sharma
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by abhishek_sharma »

From the article posted above:
This viewpoint is widely shared within the PLAAF. For example, according to Military Ideology of the Air Force, “In modern local wars, although the risk of employing nuclear nuclear weapons still exists, the practicality of remote precision strike capabilities of conventional airpower has far exceeded that of nuclear weapons, and as such, the former
can fully replace the latter as a primary strategic choice.
”7 Another prominent PLA analyst, Sr Col Yao Yunzhu, points out that “studying the nuclear thinking of earlier Chinese leaders like Mao Zedong and Deng Xiaoping, we find that neither man considered nuclear weapons usable on the battlefield in the same way as conventional means. Moreover, neither believed that nuclear wars could ever be fought and won in a measured and controlled way.”8 Under this guidance, China’s military development in recent years has concentrated on strengthening its conventional strategic—rather than nuclear—deterrence and counterdeterrence capabilities, with air force modernization as a huge priority.
Aerial combat has almost disappeared since the advent of global strike capabilities. The advance of science and technology is quickly rendering single-role air-superiority fighter aircraft obsolete. Consistent with this trend, Liu finds that almost all countries have stopped manufacturing fighter planes dedicated to air-to-air combat. Meanwhile, modern fighter-bombers, with all-weather fighting capabilities, are becoming increasingly important. Liu cites the US Air Force as a typical example of a force whose fighter-bombers now comprise the great majority of its fighter fleet.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Austin »

A Chinese Military S-300/HQ-9 launch failure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRHK8dvbwWA
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by svinayak »

For a programme that was only launched a decade ago, growth has been rapid. Ten years ago, China was reliant on Israel for its supply of Heron UAVs. However, American concerns over their deployment in the Taiwan Straits subsequently forced China to seek alternatives.

The first domestically-produced UAV was unveiled only four years ago, at the previous Zhuhai air-show.

Recently, the UAVs have been “used substantially in Tibet and Xinjiang,” Mr. Kondapalli said. “Since the number one national security threat number is the Three Evils [terrorism, separatism and religious extremism], they are providing real-time information to the government on the ground, whether any Al-Qaeda operatives are sneaking into Kashgar [near Xinjiang's western border].”


The drones are also useful for border surveillance. China's biggest drone, the ASN-229 A, has a 2,000 km operating radius, and is directed by satellite.

China's success, Mr. Kondapalli said, “would impact India's own thinking process,” with the country still reliant on Israeli UAVs.

Underscoring the widening gap in capabilities across the border, the recent sightings by the ITBP could not be documented with certainty, given the lack of sophisticated equipment in many outposts in India's border regions.

The personnel of the ITBP patrol with rudimentary equipment. When they looked skyward, they had no high-tech surveillance tools to turn to — they only had binoculars for company.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... 038426.ece
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Singha »

the S300 missiles seem to leave a tremedous solid fuel smoke trail. a good defensive system should be able to spot and tag it as a danger from a long way off....or even in a chankian way backtrack it to the launcher passively and launch alarm/j-series type munitions.
Austin
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Austin »

S-300PMU2 that the chinese have is an area defence sam and likely chinese would be defending these types with layer of medium and short AD system , for eg the short range Tor system that they have are quite capable of dealing with alarm/harm/PGM types target.

The way to defeat these capable system is to overwhelm it with target , so if the combined S-300/Tor batter can track 100 targets and attack say 50 targets , you need to over whelm it with 60 plus decoys and masquerade it along with ALARM/PGM/Cruise missile and Stand Off jammers , since these are TVM/CG missile they are limited in the number of channel they can guide and we can exploit that limitations . That can give you a assured kill against these system.

But for that to happen you need to know how these systems are deployed , considering these are not stationary targets , you will need a good ELINT and Sat image to figure out how many batteries in the area and short range systems are defending it , then use the over whelming combination of decoys/jammers/PGM to over power it , it is tricky but doable with the right resources.
Don
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Don »

Some more photoshopped pictures. : )

Enjoy....

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Juggi G »

Austin
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Austin »

Is that the Yaun Class or a modified Yaun class , it looks like a Kilo/Lada built into one with an unusual broad sail like Sierra 2 but more curvier.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by shiv »

Austin wrote:Is that the Yaun Class or a modified Yaun class , it looks like a Kilo/Lada built into one with an unusual broad sail like Sierra 2 but more curvier.
This pic has some odd artefact along the right edge of the sub where the water and sub meet. Also some unnecessary blurring near the feet of the guy on the extreme right,

I don't know what - but some photoshopping has been done

Image
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Sanku »

Also window glasses in the above pic are missing, where as they can be seen in other pics (on the conning tower with bold yellow square frame). No chance a real sub would be put into water with missing window panes.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by manum »

Sanku wrote:Also window glasses in the above pic are missing, where as they can be seen in other pics (on the conning tower with bold yellow square frame). No chance a real sub would be put into water with missing window panes.
they are openable/detachable airtight windows, at least the colour is same...
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by rohitvats »

Is it me or have the people noticed that once BRFites call the bluff on chinese photo-shopped pics, better and more realistic pics then to appear?

I mean, in the submarine pic above, the earlier one was photoshopped and the sea waves were the giveaway. The same has been corrected in the pics above - the water and wet hull seem OK in the pics above (may be, the muddy water was not considered TFTA enough earlier). The photshop seems to have been applied to some other aspects.

Someone reads BRF to get feel of pulse it seems....
shiv
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by shiv »

rohitvats wrote:Is it me or have the people noticed that once BRFites call the bluff on chinese photo-shopped pics, better and more realistic pics then to appear?
The wetness washing the sides of the sub has appeared this time :lol:

It's a game rohit. It's a game. Timepass onlee. The best was J-20 when better and better and better pictures appeared. This sub is more timepass.

Those slits on the side are totally weird and could someone please explain what earthly purpose they might have other than timepass?
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by wong »

This is the new Type 039B. Pics have been out since September.
Image
chaanakya
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by chaanakya »

DragonWarrior wrote:This is the new Type 039B. Pics have been out since September.
Image
You have strayed among DragonSlayers.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Marut »

DragonWarrior, eh...

Well timed entry along with your namesake :))
When can we expect the Tigress and others? :D
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Austin »

shiv wrote:Those slits on the side are totally weird and could someone please explain what earthly purpose they might have other than timepass?
You mean the rectangular part that joins the circular hull that has slits , my thinking is since this is a double hull submarine it would be the free flooding area between the hulls , reducing the number of limber holes on the hull.

What more interesting is the huge size of its sail , sail tends to produce drag and hence having such a broad sail for a conventional submarine would add significant drag and being conventional power that would have impact on its speed/persistance , the only possible explanation i could think of is the huge sail could accommodate atleast single releasable escape pod that would carry most of its crew in emergency.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by wong »

Slits are for sonar array.
Sail is for vertical launch tubes.

username changed to wong.
Last edited by Rahul M on 28 May 2011 06:37, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: username changed.
hnair
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by hnair »

so what do they vertically launch from sails? Long March?
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Marut »

Sonar array in slits? Is this some new revolutionary Confuscian thing going on? They are very much for the free flooding areas between the pressure hull and light hull. If you place the sonar in these slits, the water flowing over it will mess the receiver signal with its irregular flow around the slits.

VLS in sail is in new thing? How many tubes can be accommodated in there? 4,6 or 8?
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Gaur »

Glorious Revolution: Chinese army develop first-person shooter game
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... roops.html
Glorious Revolution, which is used as a training tool for People's Liberation Army (PLA) soldiers, pits the Chinese army against the U.S. military in a 'Call of Duty' style first person shooter.
A Chinese state media video report shows rows of PLA soldiers hunkered over computer screens as they play through missions of Glorious Revolution.
This is stupidity beyond belief! :shock: Soldiers playing computer games for combat training! Sometimes Chinese really go overboard with PR stunts without even realizing how stupid they look doing it.

Here is the youtube video of a PLA soldier giving television report about this "Glorious Revolution" while a class of PLA soldiers are hunched over their PCs "training". Man, this is really embarrassing to even watch.
wong
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by wong »

Marut, here let me Google that for you:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Type+039B+Submarine
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