Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 2011

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 04 Jun 2011 22:24

I have no doubt that there are lot of heart burns at foggy bottoms and in many levels of USG about their favorite lapdog is being exposed to the world as being rabid and they cant stomach how Indians seem to sit smug and go told you so! They are already trying to scale back drone program and would jump with joy if they can go back to happy days of stroking the lapdog poodle and allow it to go bite at India time to time and claim everything is just fine. I think major chunk of that 20B$ handout that they gave to poodle is also round-tripped back to feed its MIL-IND complex!

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 04 Jun 2011 22:26

Quite possibly, but $20B is a drop in the bucket of the US MIC, over 10 years it amounted to about 0.3%.

It's more relevant for Pakistan by far.

Anyway, it's enjoyable to see Unkil slapping around it's doggy, despite how long it took to get here.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 04 Jun 2011 22:29

India getting benefited is akin to municipality capturing street dogs after hundreds die due to rabies. No body should have died in the first place if everybody was doing their job.
If America is Anti-India they should have actually provoked India and Pakistan to slug it out. A war would have drained our resources and put considerable stress on our economy. We may not have grown as fast as we have in the past decade. Instead India's economy grew by leaps and bounds in the past 10 years. The standard of living of millions of Indians improved dramatically. The gap between India and Pakistan has widened so much in the past decade that it would be an embarrassment to even compare India and Pakistan for any research.

America is however not pro-India, so it leaves with only one possibility. They are plain stupid. The intellectual arrogance of Kissingers and Brezenskis led US in a economic ditch they cannot get out any time soon and sold out the future of their grand children for fighting abduls!

First they buy the idea that Pakistan will cooperate in the WoT and deliver abdul jehadi's head on platter and take some baksheesh. Stupid!
Secondly, they believe that US supporting Pakistan will deter chinese influence into central asia. Stupid!
Thirdly, they believe that keeping the pot boiling between India and Pakistan will slow down India's growth. Stupid!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 04 Jun 2011 22:32

shiv wrote:
By refusing to buckle under pressure from the US, NATO, P5, Pakistan, OIC and the whole jing bang world with zero allies India has successfully held out to see Pakistan go against its mentor - forcing the mentor to change tack.
I had posted this image earlier

There are two things which was going on Pakistan with US help. It was promoting the state Pakistan as a viable state. The second was promoting the ideology of Pakistan globally to increase the clash with other nation states.
This was supported by the western media for more than 40 years.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 04 Jun 2011 22:39

Ambar wrote:Whatever the US perfidy maybe when it comes to India, they were right when they said "In a way we are indirectly fighting India's war". We couldn't do jack about Kashmiri and his like, droneacharya on the other hand has been busy handing the faithfools their ticket to 72. Next stop - Haqqanis !

What do you think India should have done?

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 04 Jun 2011 23:10

India's war against Paki Terrorist was fought by India in its own way, it might not be the US way but it has worked to a large extant. India took on the Khalistani terrorist head on, defeated them. This was at a time where India was a lot less endowed (economically, geopoliticaly, militarily etc).
Next in Kashmir, it muddled along for some time, then took things head-on, bought peace with Pakees, started building a fence, honed it skill on Co-in, setup RR, augmented its army in a big way, pumped in resources into Kashmir, pushed forward the political process (however flawed).
In a Perverse way, National Conference being aligned with the ruling party in the center has also helped. PDP being a strong opposition in J&K is also helping as we have an opposition (whatever be their inherent flaws) which is not the Paki Jehadist.
So India fought its war, its own way, payed for it with its own sweat and blood, did not ruin its economy in the process and above all turned the tide of violence in Kashmir. my 0.00002 paise

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 04 Jun 2011 23:22

The jihadis always wanted to draw India into a conventional confrontation by provoking her through asymmetric means. instead, we replied their unconventional ways with our own asymmetric ways, and the result is that 1. Jihadis haven't achieved their goals wrt India and 2). India waited and waited and didn't give them what they wanted.

number 2 is important b/c we refused to give them a target to vent on, the result being they've turned on their own masters. I say that what India has done is masterful asymmetric strategy. though, the one negative is that in pursuing overt goals, GUBOing to them has been done beyond proportion. and, to my knowledge, the covert means haven't yet been fully exploited, which is a major setback.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 04 Jun 2011 23:38

Ambar wrote:Whatever the US perfidy maybe when it comes to India, they were right when they said "In a way we are indirectly fighting India's war". We couldn't do jack about Kashmiri and his like, droneacharya on the other hand has been busy handing the faithfools their ticket to 72. Next stop - Haqqanis !

If USA hurts some terrorist or terrorist group that only focuses on India and leaves Western and American targets alone, only and only then would USA be fighting India's war.

If some terrorist attacks Western and American interests, and Americans go for him, then it is simply America fighting America's wars! Period!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 05 Jun 2011 00:13

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/05/weeki ... .html?_r=1
Should (Could) America and Pakistan’s Bond Be Broken?
By MARK MAZZETTI

With Bin Laden dead and the White House determined to get the bulk of American troops out of Afghanistan as quickly as possible, some in Washington make the case that the ties that bind the United States to Pakistan are no longer so strong, and that the allegiances that have entangled them over the past decade could be rearranged. There are new dynamics now at play, noticed by analysts who liken this era to the years immediately after the cold war. For decades, fears of Soviet expansion had brought the United States and Pakistan into a tight embrace, but those ties weakened and ultimately broke once that threat had passed. Similarly, an American withdrawal from Afghanistan could put greater distance between the two nations and allow ties between Washington and New Delhi to grow. “As we begin to rely on Pakistan less to get supplies into Afghanistan, America’s axis with India will continue to strengthen,” said Bruce O. Riedel, a former C.I.A. official now at the Brookings Institution. If this happened, he said, it would only be natural for Islamabad to try to grow even closer to China and Saudi Arabia, two longtime allies and trading partners
Daniel Markey of the Council on Foreign Relations said that on a recent trip to Islamabad he was struck by how openly Pakistani officials talked about China as a promising strategic alternative to the United States. But he also said that travelling to Beijing made it clear to him that the Chinese didn’t return the sentiments.
“The Chinese are simply not interested in playing Pakistan’s game, and they don’t want to be played as a card against the United States,” said Mr. Markey.
What they might be willing to do, however, is cooperate in creating new opportunities to stabilize the region. Instead of the United States, China and others being at cross-purposes there, the regional powers might team up not only in trying to keep a lid on Pakistan’s combustible dynamics, but also on the thorny problem of the endgame in Afghanistan. As much as India, China, Pakistan, Iran and Russia are all jockeying for influence inside Afghanistan, most experts believe that they all fear a rushed American military pullout and a chaotic power vacuum that might follow. These fears have as much to do with economics as security. India, China and Russia, for example, have been exploring ways to tap vast mineral reserves in Afghanistan, and have supported major road projects that could again make Afghanistan a regional transportation hub. But that goal could be reached only when the shooting stops, and all the powers therefore have an interest in pushing the Afghan government, the Taliban, and some of the other warring Afghan parties toward a peace.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 05 Jun 2011 00:46

Guys this is BIG
Al-Q selects new leader

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 05 Jun 2011 00:57

Kapil wrote:Remembering Bhausaheb Maruti Talekar, 17 MLI

I deeply regret the death of Ilyas Kashmiri. He died easy; I would have seen him impaled. Literally.

Frederic · Post by **Frederic** » 05 Jun 2011 01:02

Baikul,

You are a man of my heart.
I personally feel that for gruesome terrorist offenders, our age old punishment of impaling should be brought back.
We can start with Hamid Gul.

Best Regards
Fred

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 05 Jun 2011 01:09

Apparently 3 furriners have been arrested in Peshawar in a Check Post. Media is all over it and screaming "Blackwater/Sovirginity". Hopefully develops into beer and popcorn worthy show.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 05 Jun 2011 01:11

Don't worry guys, in a few years time a nationalist government can 'buy' Musharaff from the British, he can then be tried for crimes against humanity( does not include crimes committed in Pakistan )

jaibhim · Post by **jaibhim** » 05 Jun 2011 01:23

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9QOpvx4 ... re=related

"Recent neurotic responses of the average joe regarding events." Also check other treats of this user and comments that ensue.

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 05 Jun 2011 01:30

shiv wrote:
Mahendra wrote:In real life sirji. I am the RAA station chief in Pindi
Your address isn't No 72 Pindliyon ka Gooda is it?

Or better still - let me make it mine.

Mons veneris translated into baki language is pindliyon ka gooda......

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 05 Jun 2011 01:31

Awww, the arrested TFPEs have been released

AnantD · Post by **AnantD** » 05 Jun 2011 01:37

self deleted, I don't know how to post pics

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 05 Jun 2011 01:39

Baikul wrote:
Kapil wrote:Remembering Bhausaheb Maruti Talekar, 17 MLI
I deeply regret the death of Ilyas Kashmiri. He died easy; I would have seen him impaled. Literally.

Preferably by the MLI.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 05 Jun 2011 01:40

AnantD wrote:self deleted, I don't know how to post pics

Use this http://www.imageshack.us/ to upload the picture and then copy/paste the link under "forum".

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 05 Jun 2011 01:43

shravan wrote:Plot to assassinate President Asif Ali Zardari uncovered
ISLAMABAD: Intelligence officials have arrested eight men believed to have been involved in a plot to assassinate the President.

Zardari!! eh? Eight pakis with low self-esteem.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 05 Jun 2011 01:55

Breaking News! Foreigners detained in Peshawar

Three foreigners have been detained by the police in Peshawar. The were detained near Gora Qabiristan. The nationalities of the foreigners has not been verified, but reports suggest that they are US nationals.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 05 Jun 2011 02:06

The were detained near Gora Qabiristan

what?

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 05 Jun 2011 02:07

anupmisra wrote:Breaking News! Foreigners detained in Peshawar

Three foreigners have been detained by the police in Peshawar. The were detained near Gora Qabiristan. The nationalities of the foreigners has not been verified, but reports suggest that they are US nationals.

WT-F is Gora Qabiristan?

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 05 Jun 2011 02:09

Googled. Looks like x-tian cemetary.
edit: same area as the blast on May 25th which flattened police station killing 9 personnel.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 05 Jun 2011 02:20

As I had posted earlier, Pakis did a quick downhill ski because the TFPEs had diplomatic passports.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 05 Jun 2011 02:25

satya wrote:Once upon a time two brothers of different fathers lived under same roof . One praying for desert another for jam jam . Both's prayers were answered with a golden murga / hen tht lay golden eggs came in their home running for his life & promised both brothers two instead of one tht he-she previously gave . Since 'it' ( was both a murga n murgi = it ) gave two eggs both brothers were happy , one used its egg to show his piousness to gain rutba among pious & other to get vilayati ( foreign ) hoor n jam jam n flying carpets . Things went smoothly with occasional mix up btw supporters/presumed followers of pious n not so pious brohters from same mother different fathers but both thanked the same God for giving them '' it''murga-murgi combo from land of their ancestor's killers n rapists.

But when supporters begin to increase eventually a few making their way near the home of 2 brothers and saw with their own eyes the ''it'' , they too thanked the One God but asked why less pious share== with pious one and The One God blinked so the supporter of pious one started talking and filling ears of pious brother to ask for greater share & he talked but as often when has talk yielded anything to the pious of this world other than why u crave u need ur piousness only u will be awarded in next world soon . This rose suspicion in pious for never b4 his brother had mentioned about the next world tht seems so far away & so the suspicion came & game of chess arrived at their doorstep via a SDRE servant who told them to play the Shahi Khel once played by their let's not repeat who & both brothers started playing . Initially it was only placing of the players tht was taught by one we never speak his name & then a pawn here & another there started falling but for those who know ......... know pawns falling are the first sign of war & last sign of peace from past gone forever , this was never told to the two brothers who forgot to tell their fathers about the new game they been given & developed a liking for . Getting bored from this one of the supporters who wanted to become a wajir from a mere pawn by reaching the opposite kabila decided to do something about it and told a tall gora saudagar about the ''it'' murgi tht he so desire and a price was fixed which was pious as a derivative to be delivered at a future date 100% pious method approved by The One God who approved from the place where The One God's only dakiya last lived gave its approval as the supporter saw The One blinked in eyes of hoor tht he was awarded & sign of things to never come yet gifts blind the wise wht to say of the pious . The ''it'' murgi was taken without the knowledge of the two brothers . They got angry & confused & got on their camels & called a panchayat with their followers who came on their own camels & as we read b4 no settlement or truce was arrived at btw the pious & not so pious who pretended to be more pious than pious himself making him angrier than the dakiya himself so said his supporters & so the pious kabila attacked the non pious kabila & took away his two flying camels tht gora saudagar had gifted to less pious one as syahii for an even better flying carpet than in times of Dakiya himself . Now the less pious one must act , either he will take out a supporter one who is very close to the eye of pious or his dakiya or his code tht he keeps in his locket a few remain a few gone . Did i mention code oh well u see the two fathers for now of these two sons gave them a derivative of The Key to Hell Power on promise tht key can be used only if two halves are joined together so both pious and non pious had one but so grew their mistrust tht they made so many duplicates tht they dont know which one's real anymore & in fear of letting other brother know of their foolishness they pretend they have the maal & so both used to smile when they used to meet in panchayat but alas those were times & these are moments never ending . Meanwhile Gora Saudagar talks over green tea with his Silk Road Saudagar about the time they made these two sons & as usual both point to sons mischief as trait of the other but agree where the gud trait tht both saudagar had where it came from & the company bahadur whose chai they drink smile in the shadow over the little tricks he play with his puppets . .

Will the house break or will it remain one who knows but increasingly there is talk btw pious and non pious where pious insist ek baar to hamara taREEKA azmaa ke dekh lo bahot ho gaya naach gana will the non pious agree as he too listens to the advise now more often from the Silk Road Saudagar if yes wht will the saudagars do & wht will happen to their derivatives . Meanwhile both brothers agree time has come to decrease the number of panch in panchayat its time to take care of the other panchs specially those who dont ride anymore camels but pretend have one and their followers . More pawns to fall more for everbody wants to be wajir doesn't matter of which side .

Hey bagwaan, Sorryforquotingthewholepost.

When are you going to explain something about this? What do you mean? The maal won't work too?

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 05 Jun 2011 02:26

Paki kids playing suicide bomber. Is it a game or early indoctrination?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGD-58hQJkI

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 05 Jun 2011 02:55

I deeply regret the death of Ilyas Kashmiri.

Alas Kashmiri is dead.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Jun 2011 06:24

UBanerjee wrote:Quite possibly, but $20B is a drop in the bucket of the US MIC, over 10 years it amounted to about 0.3%.

It's more relevant for Pakistan by far.

Anyway, it's enjoyable to see Unkil slapping around it's doggy, despite how long it took to get here.

Even for a country like Pakistan its not much - but I have an analogy. In a park near where I live one can find stray dogs, monkeys, fish (in a lake), squirrels and a variety of birds. People, including children are there too. Some people like to feed the animals - this is a cultural thing in India. But the dogs, who are the top predator are fed too and encouraged to stay on and breed. They in turn prey on other animals like squirrels and birds ensuring that other animals are kept in check while the dogs - like Pakistanis in front of Americans come wagging their tails to get a share of the food.

What the animal feeders are doing in this park is to make the dogs extraordinarily powerful. because the dogs are hanging about other animals fear to come up an be fed so the cost in food is not high. A few scraps from a few people every day makes dogs the kings of the park by merely upsetting the ecosystem. The other animals continue to struggle for food even as the health of dog-predators increases.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 05 Jun 2011 06:50

shiv wrote: I have believed that 9-11 occurred because jihadis could make no headway in India. They were right here - next door - but were being shaheedized as fast as they came in. But if you look at news reports of that era the western press were considering these terrorists deaths as deaths of Kashmiri freedom fighters. That was an era when these men, trained and armed by the Pakistani army were committing mayhem all over the world - culminating with 9-11.

India's steadfast resistance (which a lot of Indians criticise as cowardice, weakness, etc) actually pushed jihad to the west and brought the US into a war that Pakistan started as a war against India. But hey who cares whether anyone believe this or not. As long as the end result suits us I don;t care. but i did hope for something like this when I cheered the news of the Twin Tower going down. It was the Pearl Harbor of the 20th century. Until then Paki terrorism was "freedom fighters". The US has taken 10 years to start learning about history. If they are fighting India's war by an accident of history, so be it.

What you say is true of Pakistani jihadis, but not of Arabs, who have many reasons to hate America, and very few to hate India. The Sunni Muslim world is so much bigger than Pakistan. The money that kept the madrasas churning out bodies for the tanzeems has always largely come from the Gulf.

The Salafi Jihadi movement came to see America as the primary enemy back in 1990-91, when they militarily intervened directly in the heart of Arab world for the first time.

It was 19 Arabs who flew in to the twin towers in 2001, just like it was Arabs who rammed that suicide boat in to the USS Cole in 2000, and Arabs before that at the embassies in 1998. It was mostly Arab volunteers who martyred themselves by the thousands in Iraq after 2003

Pakistanis have come to outnumber Arabs in the vanguard of the Global Jihad for reasons that have nothing to do with either America or India, but rather what has taken place within the Arab world.

Arab Salafi jihadis in Iraq, like the ones before in Algeria showed they were much better at killing and dividing Muslims, including Sunnis than killing and dividing Jews and Crusaders. Even when they did win victories and control territory were far better at destroying than creating. All of this in the background of an Arab youth bulge that was better connected to the wider world, and better educated than ever, with higher than ever expectations.

In short the Arab world, even the Saudis, are moving forward, while Pakistan has been left behind.

There is a reason why global jihad thrives in failed and failing Muslim states like Somalia, Yemen and Pakistan. A comparative look at literacy rates will tell you everything you need to know.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 05 Jun 2011 07:31

shiv wrote: India's steadfast resistance (which a lot of Indians criticise as cowardice, weakness, etc) actually pushed jihad to the west and brought the US into a war that Pakistan started as a war against India. But hey who cares whether anyone believe this or not. As long as the end result suits us I don;t care. but i did hope for something like this when I cheered the news of the Twin Tower going down. It was the Pearl Harbor of the 20th century. Until then Paki terrorism was "freedom fighters". The US has taken 10 years to start learning about history. If they are fighting India's war by an accident of history, so be it.

Reminds me of a sher that Arun Shourie quoted, I think at the time of Kandahar hijacking, in a retort to American sanctimonious preaching to India about exercising restraint. I am not that good with Urdu, and I am quoting from memory, so Gurus please forgive and correct any mistakes I make in quoting or translation:

Ae Baade-bala unko bhi zara, do-chaar thapparein halke se,
jo log abhi taq saahil se, toofaan ka nazaara karte hain.

(O ill wind, please also deliver a few light slaps,
to those who are watching the storm safely from the shore)

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 05 Jun 2011 07:35

shiv wrote:
What the animal feeders are doing in this park is to make the dogs extraordinarily powerful. because the dogs are hanging about other animals fear to come up an be fed so the cost in food is not high. A few scraps from a few people every day makes dogs the kings of the park by merely upsetting the ecosystem. The other animals continue to struggle for food even as the health of dog-predators increases.

But the analogy doesn't work. The dog is rabidly attacking itself and is a marginal player in the ecosystem beyond the threat of rabies.

Or to return to the real world- the planes & guns TSP has been given are a hollow showpiece. They are something to parade around and say "see, we have these TFTA toys to play with. Watch out India." But really TSP has two weapons. The nukes and the jihadis. The real aid the 3.5 friends have given TSP is allowing it to maintain the image of nukes and the threat of delivery. This has not made it into the dominant player. Just more important than they deserve.

Unkil's embrace of TSP has turned into a bear hug and TSP is suffering the consequences of being smothered in "helping embrace".

ranjbe · Post by **ranjbe** » 05 Jun 2011 07:40

Cartoons from US showing evolving US/Paki relations:
Circa 2002:

Circa 2009:

Post-OBL:

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 05 Jun 2011 08:38

CRamS wrote:Altair:
Bottom line: Nothing in US actions nor statements indicate to me that US is prepared to grant that India has been a viscous victim of TSP terror, and that terror must stop and Pakis brought to justice before any meaninful peace piss can prevail. But I will admit that post 26/11, there has been some US pressure on TSP to curb "good terrorism" a tad.

Also, please remember we do not know what deal US, especially 150,0000 star general Mullen cut with Kiyani. I won't be suprised if after milking the crap out of TSP, US officials will indeed turn their guns on Kashmir and loudly and pompously talk about the "sufferings of KMs", as a way to assuage TSP H&D and continue to use it as a client.

Remember, when it suits US, and it is in its interests, suddenly phony love of Muslims develops even as in the next breath they won't hesitate to kill a "bad Musim's" grand kids as they did with Quaddafi. Also recall, how they destroyed Yoguslavia ostensibly to save the Bosnian Muslims. I am not sure what it is that Milosevic and Mladic did in Bosnia that Bush Sr & Bush Jr & Clinton & Cheney & Blair et. al did not do many times over in Iraq. Yet this self rigteous obsession about the genocide of Bosnian Muslims.

CRamS
However unequal equal India and Pakistan are there will always be folks in US who would juxtapose us under the same light. Now that there is a train of thought that Pakistan is better off in broken pieces, we should be doubly careful that a similar is not attempted on India.Or Now that Pakistan is being humiliated by Americans we should also face the possibility what you suggested regarding KM's.
It is mischievous and dangerous to bring KM's in the equation. US has a history with Hurriyat. We must preempt any such attempts by JohnKerry types to indulge them in India. MEA should simply reject the visa of any such persons willing to "talk" to Kashmiri Muslims or Hurriyat. MEA should atleast show some spine dealing with Americans. They would get that opportunity if Americans decide to do the ==
Altair

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 05 Jun 2011 08:46

Altair wrote: However unequal equal India and Pakistan are there will always be folks in US who would juxtapose us under the same light. Now that there is a train of thought that Pakistan is better off in broken pieces, we should be doubly careful that a similar is not attempted on India.Or Now that Pakistan is being humiliated by Americans we should also face the possibility what you suggested regarding KM's.
It is mischievous and dangerous to bring KM's in the equation. US has a history with Hurriyat. We must preempt any such attempts by JohnKerry types to indulge them in India. MEA should simply reject the visa of any such persons willing to "talk" to Kashmiri Muslims or Hurriyat. MEA should atleast show some spine dealing with Americans. They would get that opportunity if Americans decide to do the ==
Altair

Such efforts are already underway since a long time.

Look at how the "nobel laureate" type of support was miraculously conjured out of thin air for binayak sen who was essentially unknown before the recent brouhaha.

Norhteast, Bengal, kashmir, lakshadeep ............ take your pick.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 05 Jun 2011 08:49

RajeshA wrote: If USA hurts some terrorist or terrorist group that only focuses on India and leaves Western and American targets alone, only and only then would USA be fighting India's war.

If some terrorist attacks Western and American interests, and Americans go for him, then it is simply America fighting America's wars! Period!

USA is doing what's in their interests and fighting their own war. At best we are accruing collateral benefits out of this. Not that it's a bad thing.

Maybe this gives us an idea for the future (or perhaps this is already underway, hidden from the prying eyes), try and ensure that India-centric groups are somehow cajoled, pressurised, encouraged, nudged to direct at least some of their perfidious acts against Western interests. Dronacharyas will do the rest. Short of deploying similar covert tactics this is a most advantageous approach.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 05 Jun 2011 08:53

RajeshA wrote:If USA hurts some terrorist or terrorist group that only focuses on India and leaves Western and American targets alone, only and only then would USA be fighting India's war.

If some terrorist attacks Western and American interests, and Americans go for him, then it is simply America fighting America's wars! Period!

Yes, we need not feel obliged. It must be pointed out that these terrorists are creation of their policy and enabled by their support to TSP. I don't think US or any other country would fight India's war. It has to be fought by us only.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Jun 2011 09:15

Johann wrote: What you say is true of Pakistani jihadis, but not of Arabs, who have many reasons to hate America, and very few to hate India. The Sunni Muslim world is so much bigger than Pakistan. The money that kept the madrasas churning out bodies for the tanzeems has always largely come from the Gulf.

The Salafi Jihadi movement came to see America as the primary enemy back in 1990-91, when they militarily intervened directly in the heart of Arab world for the first time.

It was 19 Arabs who flew in to the twin towers in 2001, just like it was Arabs who rammed that suicide boat in to the USS Cole in 2000, and Arabs before that at the embassies in 1998. It was mostly Arab volunteers who martyred themselves by the thousands in Iraq after 2003

Johann the Arabs who hated America technically had all of dar ul Islam to train for jihad. But the only place where they could receive top class training right under the noses of the Americans in a place where the US would not or could not touch them was in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The US saw Pakistan as an ally and Afghanistan as under Pakistani suzerainty. Anyone who receied traing under the supervision of "allty Pakistan would not be a threat to America. They fought the Soviets and hitting Inia was of no consequence to India. It was, in the American view, well with Pakistani rights to hit India. And it was well within Pakistani rights to receive American aid as an ally.

After the Soviets left these trained jihadis - both Arab and Pakistani had no job and were otherwise unemploayble. Pakistan used their services against India. Perhaps some of them migrated out - but for 11 years from 1989 to 2000 jihad in Kashmir was sponsored by Pakistan and a lot of the jihadis were "foreigners" and not just Pakistanis. During this phase Arabs came to Pakistan and got trained for jihad. Some were directed to hone their skills against India. It was the relative impossibility of fighting successful jihad in Kashmir (they were getting killed too soon) that left Pakistan with a surfeit of jihadis. At any given time there were several thousand men on the Pakistani side waiting to infiltrate. It was some of these men who eventually went out of Pakistan to do their jihad in the Phillipines, Chechnya, Europe and finally the US. Imagine if these thousands of men had managed to enter Kashmir - the jihad would have been in India. All thoe fighters would have been usefully employed right here as desired by Pakistan, the most favored non NATO ally of the US. And I am sure the US would have been quite comfortable seeing jihad in Kashmir as opposed to suffering 9-11.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Jun 2011 09:17

UBanerjee wrote:
shiv wrote:
What the animal feeders are doing in this park is to make the dogs extraordinarily powerful. because the dogs are hanging about other animals fear to come up an be fed so the cost in food is not high. A few scraps from a few people every day makes dogs the kings of the park by merely upsetting the ecosystem. The other animals continue to struggle for food even as the health of dog-predators increases.
But the analogy doesn't work. The dog is rabidly attacking itself and is a marginal player in the ecosystem beyond the threat of rabies.

Or to return to the real world- the planes & guns TSP has been given are a hollow showpiece. They are something to parade around and say "see, we have these TFTA toys to play with. Watch out India." But really TSP has two weapons. The nukes and the jihadis. The real aid the 3.5 friends have given TSP is allowing it to maintain the image of nukes and the threat of delivery. This has not made it into the dominant player. Just more important than they deserve.

Unkil's embrace of TSP has turned into a bear hug and TSP is suffering the consequences of being smothered in "helping embrace".

The dog is the Pakistani army which the US supports while the squirrels and birds of Pakistan are dominated by the dogs. But in any case arguing over an analogy is pointless. Analogies can only be similar. Not "same"