Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 2011

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saadhak
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by saadhak »

OTOH, an easy solution to solve the perennial gender ratio disparity in the western border states (esp Punjab and Haryana) is to selectively let in 'em wimmin refugees only, perhaps...
IMO, we should stop advocating 'taking in their women' - on whatever pretext.
A few reasons:

1. The gender ratio points to an ill mindset in the said states. Importing women is not going to get rid of that mind-set. This cannot be a solution.
2. Who would want inbred, rabidly anti-Indian (since 3 generations at least) women giving birth to and bringing up their kids? Think one level deeper for the social implications.
3. We do not have to sink to the level of barbarians by humiliating them through their women.

Surely there are many other ways of heaping humiliation on the enemy without compromising on our morals and keeping value and social systems intact; also setting the right examples for our future generations.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by A_Gupta »

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/Opinion/Com ... cabal.ashx

Mustafa Malik, in The Daily Star, Lebanon
...On Aug. 21, 1989, I was interviewing a retired army general, Khalid Mahmud Arif, at the Rawalpindi offices of then army chief of staff General Mirza Aslam Beg.

...

Were not the Pakistani army’s repeated coups, I inquired, affecting its morale and professionalism? I would learn later that Arif had been deeply involved in the coup led by General Muhammad Zia ul-Haq.

Enraged, Arif ambushed me with a series of rapid-fire personal questions, including one about whether I was a practicing Muslim. When I refused to answer some of his queries and sought to end the interview, he ordered me to wait and went out.

Two armed guards prevented me from leaving. About 20 minutes later three plainclothes men barged in, arrested, handcuffed and blindfolded me, placed a hood over my head, and drove me off to an unknown location.

I was interrogated by two angry men in a basement room with spooky images on the wall and smudges of dry blood (or perhaps red dye) on the floor. Sporting wooden staffs, the men harangued me about the quality of my upbringing as a Muslim, any links I might have with Indian intelligence, the reason for my “snooping” in Pakistan’s army headquarters, and so on.
Last edited by A_Gupta on 10 Jun 2011 21:52, edited 1 time in total.
ramana
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by ramana »

Lalmohan wrote:i am well aware of the lack of sympathy for the ahmedis on BRF, however - as a community under pressure in pakistan - they are ripe for "re-configuration" to a new model

Thats what Brits also thought. They would be a vanguard of new improved Islam from Pakjab region.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by ramana »

A_Gutpa< Note the Kharjite type insistence of checking the Muslimness of the reporter. If he didn't have US passport he wouldn't have lived to write this report.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by svinayak »

ramana wrote:

"Lalmohan" i am well aware of the lack of sympathy for the ahmedis on BRF, however - as a community under pressure in pakistan - they are ripe for "re-configuration" to a new model

Thats what Brits also thought. They would be a vanguard of new improved Islam from Pakjab region.
Social engineering of the Muslims in the sub continent has been going on for the last 140 years.
Every body thinks they are ripe for the change
British have done the biggest effort with the partition and now the US has been doing it for the last 40 years.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Manishw »

^^ Agree , Give them time and see them becoming more and more Paki in their behavior.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by ramana »

I agree with saadhak.

Also its crass to talk like that even if Pakjabis lust for such thoughts.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Prem »

Lalmohan,
Charity must be given to the deserving people and asylem to the innocent victims. Remember the story of Brahmin who fed and served the hungry ,tired butcher on the way to slaughterhouse thus incurring the sins of becoming instrument in taking many innocent lifes. Qadianis are just paying for their sins of 47. The blood of Million plus people on their hands. The present tussle between Qadiani Ahmadis and Poak Ahmakis is but the Ramba Samba dance between the snake and the scorpian. Watch them wink and wiggle trying to inject pious poison with passion in eacth other's Khootie.( Khootie= as in playing with Marbles which poak lost long time ago)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by gakakkad »

James B wrote:It's already spreading like a wild fire. From twitter
@sarataseer Sara Taseer Shoaib
Was at an international jewel conference today. Evry nationality, Lebanese to Chinese asked me about rangers shooting boy. Shame #Pakistan

I wish I never saw that video.And I am not a softy . I have seen several things in life. When I was an intern doctor I saw several several severe road traffic accident cases with far more blood then displayed in these videos. I sutured quadriceps muscles in a patient with de-gloving injury. Trust me , its a gory site. Now I am a resident in a Brooklyn hospital with very busy ER. I have seen several patients before they die. Tried to resuscitate them. Comforted their relatives after their demise. Not an easy experience. But I have done it 1000s of times. I am an avid gamer and played first person shooters frequently. These are often too bloody. Yet , I have never been so deeply shocked by the cruelty of one human against another like the one displayed in these videos. I have a 12 hr flight back to US . I wish i dont feel haunted by these video in the flight.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Christopher Sidor »

^^^^
Pakistan has till date not been held accountable for the sins committed in its name. Neither for the million dead during partition or the displacement of 20 million people. Nor has it been held accountable for the millions dead and displaced during 1971. It was said that paki women even held a view "So what if our husbands are raping Bangladeshis, at least their b*st*rd offspring will be as beautiful as ours."
Nor has it been held accountable for the early 1990s massacre of shias in the illegally occupied northern J&K region.
We also should not forget the blood soaked hands of pakistan in the mayhem of afghanistan post 1989 withdrawal of the Soviets.

There should not be any pity as far as Pakistan is concerned. The shooting was heart breaking. The guy was begging and he was shot, while he was unarmed. It is karma and she can be a bloody bitch. Pakistan is reaping what it sowed.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Nandu »

US Congressional Research Service report on aid to Pakistan.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R41856.pdf
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Satya_anveshi »

Folks,

Was there any report on the religious identity of the teenager who was shot and killed by the paki security forces? The way they killed him makes me believe he was paki christian and hence more propaganda value. Do make a mention of him being a paki christian in your comments in UTube/NY Times/Washpost etc. Ahmedias and Shias come next. PakHindus ofcourse are wajibulcattle from puki and perspective of the West/ME and so no p-value.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by shravan »

Satya_anveshi wrote:Folks,

Was there any report on the religious identity of the teenager who was shot and killed by the paki security forces?
In Karachi people kill each-other based on Ethnic Identity. His family is from Bagh in POK.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by RajeshA »

saadhak wrote:
Hari Seldon wrote:OTOH, an easy solution to solve the perennial gender ratio disparity in the western border states (esp Punjab and Haryana) is to selectively let in 'em wimmin refugees only, perhaps...
IMO, we should stop advocating 'taking in their women' - on whatever pretext.
A few reasons:

1. The gender ratio points to an ill mindset in the said states. Importing women is not going to get rid of that mind-set. This cannot be a solution.
The gender ratio points to an ill mindset that was the case in the said states a couple of decades ago. This is changing. However those men folk who are not so privileged to have a wife, should those men have to live a life without love and family? And if yes, for what fault of theirs? Were they personally responsible for what happened a couple of decades ago?
saadhak wrote:2. Who would want inbred, rabidly anti-Indian (since 3 generations at least) women giving birth to and bringing up their kids? Think one level deeper for the social implications.
Okay so now the Paki women are not good enough for Indians!? In fact they are so bad, the women need to be humiliated by calling them inbred and rabid!
saadhak wrote:3. We do not have to sink to the level of barbarians by humiliating them through their women.
But all of sudden, we cannot humiliate their men, because humiliating others becomes barbarian!
saadhak wrote:Surely there are many other ways of heaping humiliation on the enemy without compromising on our morals and keeping value and social systems intact; also setting the right examples for our future generations.
As far as I see it, I don't know what morals and values and social systems Hari Seldon ji violated by suggesting that we be somewhat lenient in admittance with women refugees!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by wig »

Female aide to Musharraf booked for possessing liquor
ISLAMABAD: Pakistani actress Atiqa Odho, a close aide of former military ruler Pervez Musharraf, has been served a showcause notice to appear before customs authorities within 30 days and clarify her position regarding two bottles of liquor found in her luggage during a search at the Rawalpindi airport.

The notice had been served at Odho's home address, customs spokesman Rana Shakeel told the media. Police too have booked Odho on charges of possessing two bottles of liquor.

They acted after the Supreme Court took suo-motu notice of an incident in which Odho was let off after being briefly detained by authorities at the Benazir Bhutto International Airport in Rawalpindi on June 4 for possession of liquor.

Reports said police had sought permission from the Home Department of Punjab province to obtain arrest warrants for Odho, who lives in Karachi.

Odho was Vice President of Musharraf's All Pakistan Muslim League but resigned from the party after the incident was reported by the media.

The Airport Security Force found the liquor in her baggage during a security check before she was to board a flight to Karachi. The All Pakistan Muslim League has said a three-member committee is looking into the issue.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 804672.cms
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by anupmisra »

gakakkad wrote:I wish I never saw that video....I have a 12 hr flight back to US . I wish i dont feel haunted by these video in the flight.
From one thick-skinned New Yorker to another, just remember; this too shall pass. Remember also that you are better than them in every possible way. But, brace yourself for more gory stories coming out of pakistan. "Those whom God wishes to destroy, he first makes mad. Euripides" (c. 480 BC- 406 BC). This July 4th, take a trip to the Holocaust Museum in DC. Remind yourself time and again that those who perpetrate this barbarity on other human beings will one day have to face their maker.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by ramana »

So they are going after Mushy's gang now by legal means?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Agnimitra »

SBajwa wrote:Pakistan as in its current format has its origin in Naqshbandis during Shahjehan and Aurungzeb times. These guys believed in violence (Aurungzeb banned music and persecuted poets like Bulleh Shah and Waris Shah) and all out conversion of non-islamic to their version of islam.
The reference above is the legacy of "Imam Rabbani" (Sheikh Ahmad Sirhindi) who wanted to undo Akbar's attempts at syncreticism. He once said:
"Cow-sacrifice in India is the noblest of Islamic practices. The kafirs may probably agree to pay jiziya but they shall never concede to cow-sacrifice."
To tie this to Ramana's posts about Kharijites and early Islamic history... Naqshbandis are the only Sufi tariqat (parampara) that does NOT come down through 'Ali. It goes through Abu Bakr, the first Sunni Caliph, who emphasized political expansion, exigencies and social hierarchies over inner spiritual reform, meditation and even social justice and equality.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by vdutta »

Mihaylo wrote:
Singha sir, I might be mistaken but, the above 2 pictures of the RAA agint who was one of the terrorists who attacked the SL cricket team.
This lungi check proved that he was a RAA agint, hence no pajama!
The pics are of the same guy..me thinks. Were these photos from different incidents ?

-M
both the pic are from same incident i.e. munabav police acedamy siege. this guy was allegedly caught with two hand grenades approaching at the ssg heli which was parked near by.

btw later this guy was given 10 years as there was no evidence against him and he is appealing again and expected to be released soon.

no real arrests were made in SL team incident. whatever they arrested were released in few days. inquiry is still on :((
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Dilbu »

Don't know if this is a repost. A very blunt Asma Jahangir on Pakistan Army on Cross Fire. Calls spade a spade regarding TSPA actions citing 1971 Bangladesh, Kargil etc as examples. Must watch.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Shaashtanga »

saadhak wrote:
OTOH, an easy solution to solve the perennial gender ratio disparity in the western border states (esp Punjab and Haryana) is to selectively let in 'em wimmin refugees only, perhaps...
IMO, we should stop advocating 'taking in their women' - on whatever pretext.
A few reasons:

1. The gender ratio points to an ill mindset in the said states. Importing women is not going to get rid of that mind-set. This cannot be a solution.
2. Who would want inbred, rabidly anti-Indian (since 3 generations at least) women giving birth to and bringing up their kids? Think one level deeper for the social implications.
3. We do not have to sink to the level of barbarians by humiliating them through their women.

Surely there are many other ways of heaping humiliation on the enemy without compromising on our morals and keeping value and social systems intact; also setting the right examples for our future generations.
Excellent post saadhak.... lets follow dharmic traditions and not try to humiliate the enemy thru their women folk... we also don't want to poison our gene pool... OT for this thread but if there is gender imbalance in the western states (and even across India) we need to get to the bottom of the problem by trying to reduce female Feticide by announcing some sort of monthly financial assistance so that having a girl child is an incentive and not a liability....
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by sudeepj »

wig wrote:Female aide to Musharraf booked for possessing liquor
ISLAMABAD: Pakistani actress Atiqa Odho, a close aide of former military ruler Pervez Musharraf, has been served a showcause notice to appear before customs authorities within 30 days and clarify her position regarding two bottles of liquor found in her luggage during a search at the Rawalpindi airport.

They acted after the Supreme Court took suo-motu notice of an incident in which Odho was let off after being briefly detained by authorities at the Benazir Bhutto International Airport in Rawalpindi on June 4 for possession of liquor.

The Airport Security Force found the liquor in her baggage during a security check before she was to board a flight to Karachi. The All Pakistan Muslim League has said a three-member committee is looking into the issue.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 804672.cms
Am I the only one who sees the irony in this? A woman carrying two bottles of wine in her bags is worthy of a suo moto notice from the Poak supreme court and the shooting of that cell phone snatcher is not?

Man.. I dont think this country will survive this decade..
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by KJo »

saadhak wrote:
Surely there are many other ways of heaping humiliation on the enemy without compromising on our morals and keeping value and social systems intact; also setting the right examples for our future generations.
I wish there was a way I could use a Like button for saadhak's post. :D
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by anupmisra »

So, here's an example of how pakis will time and again prove their perfidy and deflect any blames of inbred faults to the bigger "South Asian & global" problem. Note how the writer starts out by pointing to the recent shooting as an "incident" and ends up pointing out similar "incidents" in India, and uses that as a thesis to put the blame on the general public (but not the PA):

Killing them brutally
We as a nation comprise of a frustrated and dangerous mob, which satiates its predatory instincts at any given chance. Time and again we have proven this. The latest incident to become ‘news’ is of a young man Sarfraz Shah who was shot dead in broad daylight by a group of Rangers personnel in a public park in Karachi for allegedly robbing people at gun point.
So far so good. But...wait for the second shoe to drop...
After the footage hit news channels, the authorities came into action, and according to news reports, two Rangers personnel, Shahid and Afzal, of the Abdullah Shah Ghazi Rangers 32 Wing were arrested.
Wait...wait...wait...wait...
What is wrong with us? Why does death and murder fascinate us so? And why are our inhumane instincts taking over our compassion and humanity?
OK. Enough of self flagellation. Here's how to deflect the issue:
Soldiers experiencing overwhelming combat situations may sometimes give vent to their frustration and stress by ‘taking out’ their own colleagues. There have been gruesome incidents in many countries in India and USA, where soldiers have been known to turn their fire on their own colleagues due to extreme stress that has remained undetected.
Don't stop there...carry on with the India-bashing now that you have diverted people's attention...
According to news reports, in 2009 a soldier of the Assam Rifles elite paramilitary force shot dead six soldiers in the north-eastern Indian state of Manipur after an argument. The report further stated that the accused had been suffering from stress which was caused because members of the security forces are denied long leaves during severe counter-insurgency operations.

There! Feel better? But, wait, now to deflect this paki army problem to the bigger public at large:
Unfortunately for Pakistan, such incidents of venting ones stress by murder are not only restricted to the security personnel. There have been reported cases of similar incidents where unarmed common people have been involved. In such cases, the number of people involved in these murders has been quite large, which could indicate the state of mind that the majority of Pakistanis are in.
And, now the coup de grace by making it a general problem all over the globe:
It seems that in countries like Pakistan, signs of frustration, stress and other psychological issues are not taken into consideration.
QED. Where's my check, Mr. Army Man?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Bhima »

Christopher Sidor wrote:The shooting was heart breaking. The guy was begging and he was shot, while he was unarmed. It is karma and she can be a bloody bitch. Pakistan is reaping what it sowed.
I have seen more gory videos but this one was particularly inhumane and callous for the reasons you stated. But I wonder all this time I have been enjoying the TSP show with the satisfaction of thinking that country is finally getting its comeuppance. If this is true then what has India done to deserve such a wretched, rabid dog of a neighbour in TSP? My immediate thought is whenever we have found ourselves in a position to crush them we have held back. But surely that cannot be a crime deserving such a great punishment?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by NikhilB »

Lalmohan wrote:it looks like pak faujis like to do the lungi test
1. cos raw agents are everywhere (but obviously not mossad ones)
2. they like it
:eek:
:rotfl: :rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by mehroke »

re - the killing of the young Lad in Karachi as opposed to the crime of carrying liquor by Musharraff's aide.

I am a long time lurker - first time poster. Pardon my formating as I get my posting legs on this forum.

I have been a keen visitor on the BRF on pakistan for a long time now.

The extra judicial killing of this young man will no doubt be discussed in detail by the old time posters and Gurus hence I will not attempt to shed any new light (There is no new light - its all dark)

Pakistani society is like a lab rat in an experiment gone horribly wrong. The people initiating and performing the experiment (the west) will get off paying a much smaller price than the subject of the experiment (Pakistan)

The current state of lawlessness in Pakistan is just one of the manifestations of this horrible horrible great game played out on India. I say India - because Pakistan is an unnatural entity carved out of India (I.e Bharat)

A society where human life is cheaper that two bottles of whiskey is not a society in the conventional sense. It is anarchy. I am taking the liberty of assuming that this cold blooded murder would have no consequences to the ruling establishment if the video had not been circulated on the internet. The whisky bottles seized would have attracted a higher penalty that the taking of a human life in cold blood.

Vinaash Kaalam, Viparit Buddhi
The viparit Buddhi is there for all to see - Vinassh kaalam is unfolding before our eyes.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Prem »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110610/ap_ ... s_pakistan
CIA chief on visit to repair ties with Pakistan
ISLAMABAD – CIA Director Leon Panetta met over dinner Friday with Pakistan's spy chief and army head for talks on how to repair ties between the two countries that were fractured by the American raid that killed Osama bin Laden, a Pakistani and a U.S. official said.
Panetta's visit was his first to Pakistan since the unilateral American operation on May 2 killed the al-Qaida leader in a Pakistani army town, triggering an angry backlash by the powerful military. It is likely to be his last before he becomes the next U.S. defense secretary.
American officials have said they want to rebuild a relationship vital to their fight against al-Qaida and their efforts to wind down the war in Afghanistan, but progress has been slow amid suspicions by some in Washington that elements within the security establishment here were sheltering bin Laden.
Pakistan, facing public anger over what was seen as an unacceptable violation of sovereignty, sent home most U.S. Army trainers in the country and said Thursday it no longer wanted American financial assistance.Panetta dined with army chief Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani and the head of the country's main spy agency, Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, after arriving Friday, said the officials, who did not give their names to discuss the high-level meeting.Panetta's relationship with both men will be key in his new role, presuming he is speedily confirmed as the next U.S. defense chief.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Prem »

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asi ... story.html
Panetta arrives in Pakistan unannounced
( Whats up Poak?)
Panetta, who has been nominated to be the next U.S. defense secretary, left for Pakistan soon after confirmation hearings on Capitol Hill concluded on Thursday. A Pakistani intelligence official confirmed his presence Friday night but said he did not know the purpose of Panetta’s visit
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Shrinivasan »

Lalmohan wrote:i am well aware of the lack of sympathy for the ahmedis on BRF, however - as a community under pressure in pakistan - they are ripe for "re-configuration" to a new model
once a pakee always a pakee... no welcoming pakees...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by mehroke »

The Qadinani's have made their bed - now let them lie int it.
Prem wrote:Lalmohan,
Charity must be given to the deserving people and asylem to the innocent victims. Remember the story of Brahmin who fed and served the hungry ,tired butcher on the way to slaughterhouse thus incurring the sins of becoming instrument in taking many innocent lifes. Qadianis are just paying for their sins of 47. The blood of Million plus people on their hands. The present tussle between Qadiani Ahmadis and Poak Ahmakis is but the Ramba Samba dance between the snake and the scorpian. Watch them wink and wiggle trying to inject pious poison with passion in eacth other's Khootie.( Khootie= as in playing with Marbles which poak lost long time ago)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by harbans »

I wish there was a way I could use a Like button for saadhak's post. :D

Me too. I would consider it reprehensible to use Women in such a manner as suggested. Saadhak ji, great post! Thanks for it.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by shiv »

The embassy’s vice consul, Michael Gaye, investigated the incident and told me Sept. 9, 1989, that my 26-hour ordeal had occurred at the hands of Pakistan’s Military Intelligence service.

He promised to get back to me with his follow-up action. But he never did.
That was no surprise. The United States has traditionally ignored the Pakistani armed forces’ brutality and their recurrent coups against democratic governments.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by shiv »

Was this posted earlier? Posting in full..

http://expressbuzz.com/opinion/op-ed/ge ... 81449.html
Generals let down Pakistan
Karamatullah K Ghori
The month of May, part of spring in the West, has turned out an almost unbearable spate of heat for Pakistan’s august military establishment. Not since their ignominious debacle in the then East Pakistan (Bangladesh), back in December 1971, have Pakistan’s swaggering generals been so battered and beaten to ground. The people of Pakistan, once their strongest supporters, have turned against them and are up in arms.

The brutal murder of Syed Saleem Shahzad, the intrepid investigative Pakistani journalist, whose body was found in his car outside Mandi Bahauddin, not too far from Rawalpindi, on May 30, was apparently the proverbial last straw on the back of the Pakistani people to snap their patience and tolerance of the military’s omniscient and overarching role in Pakistan’s social and political milieu.

Saleem, who worked as the Pakistani bureau chief of the Asia Times Online, was known for his daring forays into those closets where skeletons were stacked. He, or anybody else, wasn’t supposed to pry open those ‘trophies’ of Pakistan’s intelligence services. But Saleem was a product of that new breed of journalists in Pakistan who’ve fought hard for their right to be bold and forthright and expose all those inconvenient truths that the country’s ruling elite would rather keep buried under their cloistered corridors of power.

The backlash against such maverick Pakistani journalists has exacted a heavy toll of their blood in recent years. It has also led to Pakistan being dubbed the most dangerous country in the world for journalists by the Paris-based press monitoring group, Reporters Without Borders. But that hasn’t discouraged the truth seekers among these valiant bearers of journalistic freedom from soldering on. Saleem’s horrible example — intended, no doubt, by his callous murderers to clip the wings of all those daring to challenge the power barons of Pakistan — is unlikely to cool their ardour to carry on his mission. The battle, according to some, has only just begun. They’re blazing a trail worth following.

Saleem apparently ruffled a lot of feathers with his May 26, two-part, report in Asia Times on the brazen breach of security at the Mehran Naval-Aviation Base in the heart of Karachi last May 22.

The details of that bizarre and daring raid into a supposedly high-security defence establishment are still murky. Apparently, a band of well-armed terrorists succeeded in making light of whatever security there was around the base and then kept the security personnel that had scrambled to evict or kill them at bay for 17 hours.

Saleem’s copy for Asia Times, which apparently sealed his fate, had said exactly what the man on the Pakistani street was saying: that it was inconceivable a handful of terrorists, no matter how well-armed, had kept the defenders tied down for such a long time unless they happened to have in-house help. If not, it reflected all the more poorly on the skills and capabilities of the much-hyped ‘defenders of Pakistan.’

Saleem had also hinted at the likelihood of al-Qaeda having links with the personnel of the Pakistan Navy that made it a piece of cake for the terrorists to breach the base. He had alluded to his brush with some big-wigs of Pakistan’s ace intelligence service, ISI, in connection with an earlier story that had raised eyebrows in ISI’s inner sanctum. Saleem had expressed fears about his safety.

Saleem’s murder has enraged the people of Pakistan who have already had enough justification to feel badly let-down by a military establishment pampered and primed at the cost of their socio-economic welfare and well-being. The army has thrived on the fat of the land while the people of Pakistan have toiled in grinding penury.

Even in the latest national budget of Pakistan, presented June 2, the defence allocation tops 500 billion rupees, compared to just 40 billion for education and public health combined. This pittance is for 180 million grovelling ‘have-nots’ in a country where education is losing out, every year, to a galloping birth rate, and where there’s just one hospital bed for every 20,000 people.

The bemused Pakistani people’s tail was up when, in spite of obvious humiliation heaped by the terrorists, the naval chief casually dismissed any notion of lax security at the base. His blinkered eyes apparently couldn’t see gaping holes in the security set-up under his watch. Or was it that he couldn’t see them from the tinted glass of his armoured, bulletproof, Series 7 BMW limo with a price tag of Rs 500 million?

Earlier, May had begun with a rude awakening for the people of Pakistan when the world’s most wanted terrorist was killed at a stone’s throw from Pakistan’s premier military academy at Kakul. How could the Pakistani layman be made to believe that the country’s pampered generals weren’t aware of his sheltering virtually under their wings? If that was actually the case, their insouciance was, simply, galling.

The generals found sleeping on their watch was a harrowing discovery for the people of Pakistan; their angst and anger was further fuelled by the daring American raid into Osama’s Abbottabad sanctuary, which exposed the military’s vulnerability against a superior force and crashed the myth of Pakistan army’s hawk-like vigilance against any perceived intruder. Is Pakistan safe in their hands, asked the layman; his concern obviously hitting the bulls eye.

They don’t mourn the pusillanimity of their civilian leadership which, in their eyes, is a refuge of rogues and scoundrels. But the army has had a place of honour in their hearts. They had even forgiven the generals — though certainly not forgotten — the haunting debacle of their surrender that fateful day, December 16, 1971, at Dhaka’s Paltan Maidan. But this May, and the series of national humiliations it brought in trail, has brought all the earlier unsavoury memories bouncing back with vengeance.

The question the people of Pakistan are asking among themselves is where do they go from here? How do they salvage national honour in an ambience where the shedding of innocent blood, like Saleem’s, is winked at by the country’s expensive and elaborate security apparatus, if not actively abetted by it? How do they convince their generals — with a one-track mind — that fighting the so-called ‘war against terror’ as the spearhead of a global military power, while remaining at odds with Pakistan’s immediate neighbours, is, in its very elements, a losing proposition?

Karamatullah K Ghori is a former Pakistani

ambassador. E-mail: [email protected]
shiv
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by shiv »

More on Paki army morale etc
The Woes of an Ostrich Republic
..given the present state of army morale, it is hard to imagine any unit of the Pakistan army having its heart in it when the fighting begins.
Pakistan has two problems – just two and no other: under-development and the curse of religious fundamentalism gone wild. Both are internal problems aggravated not by any international conspiracy – Zionist, Indian or American – but by our external obsessions. Unless the army, and here the key responsibility is the army’s, breaks free from its Indian bondage – and this is a bondage – there can be no peace for Pakistan.

Just think of it, clenching our mailed fist towards India but sucking up to the United States, acting upon American demands about necessary steps, what kind of sovereignty is this?

Islam is not the state religion of Pakistan, denial is. And our national emblem should be the ostrich, :D given our proclivity to bury our heads in the sand and not see the landscape around us as it is.
Gagan
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Gagan »

A_Gupta wrote:http://www.dailystar.com.lb/Opinion/Com ... cabal.ashx

Mustafa Malik, in The Daily Star, Lebanon
...On Aug. 21, 1989, I was interviewing a retired army general, Khalid Mahmud Arif, at the Rawalpindi offices of then army chief of staff General Mirza Aslam Beg.
...
I was interrogated by two angry men in a basement room with spooky images on the wall and smudges of dry blood (or perhaps red dye) on the floor. Sporting wooden staffs, the men harangued me about the quality of my upbringing as a Muslim, any links I might have with Indian intelligence, the reason for my “snooping” in Pakistan’s army headquarters, and so on.
That is dangerous.
If you are a pakistani, but have a foreign passport, that does not ensure you immunity from death.
It would appear that the general wanted to put the fear of god into the reporter, otherwise it is no big deal for them to take out an individual.
People who carry out coups in Pakistan are the establishment's 'herrows', and the establishment will protect them.

If you are a pakistani, these guys will say, that you grew up there, you know who's jagirdari runs in that country, and you understand what jagirdari is. Now just because you have a 'furrein' passport, you are going to behave all uppity hain? Bamboo karo.
ranjbe
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by ranjbe »

Another classic Op-Ed from Ameer Bhutto:
My country is finished
What is left of Pakistan? There is no visible administrating authority. A free-for-all prevails, in which the politicians in power are looting the state in broad daylight, vital state institutions are decaying due to neglect and the appointment of cronies who only cover their sponsors’ criminal tracks, the government has done its best to sideline the judiciary by flouting its authority and the houses of parliament have been reduced to a joke. The hapless citizens do not know whom to fear more; criminals or those who are supposed to protect them from criminals but are themselves out of control. The remaining vestiges of sovereignty have been sold to foreign masters for the sake of power.
The government has turned us into a nation of beggars. Instead of questioning why millions are spent daily on lavish presidential and prime ministerial palaces while even after almost 10 months, the flood refugees have not been fully rehabilitated, people are content to live off handouts. Those who used to, in the name of honour, kill any man who so much as glanced at their women folk, now send their women to stand in lines outside banks all day and suffer unmentionable humiliation for a few rupees of charity. This once proud nation has become addicted to taking the path of least resistance, even if doing so piles on more misery and insult upon them.
We have pretty much run out of options as far as corrective mechanisms go. Decay, left unchecked, can only generate more decay. How will this country survive the crises it faces? How will it withstand the menacing storms that loom over the horizon? I now begin to understand what Pervez Musharraf meant when, in his farewell address to the nation, he said “Pakistan ka Khuda Hafiz”.’

http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDe ... 1998&Cat=9
Theo_Fidel

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Theo_Fidel »

I've said this before.

The real danger is when our per capita income reaches a level 4-5 time above that of TSP. The pull to relocate will be almost irresistible. Already their 'entertainers' consider India as their primary territory. Not for nothing their cricketers have heartburn over the IPL ban.

We have a long porous border. IMO we can not keep them out indefinitely.
arun
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by arun »

X Posted from the Pakistani Role in Global Terrorism thread.

More hunting with the hounds and running with the hare by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

“Security Officials” of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan tipped off Islamic Terrorists that raids would be conducted on "IED factories" located in North and South Waziristan which had been identified by the US who passed on the locations of the "IED factories" to the Islamic Republic with a request to act. The tip off provided time to the Islamic Terrorists to make good their escape.

Evidence of this newest piece of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s duplicity regards Islamic Terrorism was reportedly given by US official Leon Panetta during his current (ongoing?) visit to the Islamic Republic :

Pakistan Officials Colluding With Militants? US Presents Evidence
Locked