Managing Pakistan's failure

[Samudragupta]

Zulifqar Mirza should clear up his mind that Sindh did not provided food and shelter to runaways from UP (most of them being economic migrant, see Balraj Sahni’s great movie ‘Garam Hawa.” Urdu speaking Muhajirs have a different perception: In their mind they conquered Sindh and other parts of Pakistan. Otherwise how a language of 3-5% could be designated into a national language.

Urdu speaking Muslims always identified themselves with the invaders from the North and always felt and claimed to be their descendents.

That’s how from slave dynasty to Nadir Shah and Ahmad Shah were presented as heroes of Pakistan. Before creation of Pakistan most of Punjabi and other Muslims of present day Pakistan were poor peasants and artisans were converted from low castes of Hindus. Until 1947 Punjabi-Sindhi Muslims were treated as untouchables by ruling elites of UP
etc.

When Muslim ruling elite of UP etc found that the British is going to leave and India will be ruled by Hindus largely they started planning conquering Muslim areas through Muslim League ideology.

They successfully teamed up with other Muslim feudal [of present Pakistan] and created a country to be ruled by Urdu speaking elites through ideological mixture of Islam and Urdu. They taught the history of Northern invaders, their acclaimed forefathers, as history of poor people of Punjab and Sindh. Punjabis fell into such hallucination faster than the Sindhis or Baluchis. But for Urdu speaking elite (and the ones who follow them) Pakistan is a conquered land. This what Altaf Hussain means by “Founders of Pakistan”

[RajeshA]

Doing Business with Pakistanis

Pakistan is basically an agricultural country. The Zamindars are those with the large agricultural lands. India is a country with a respectable industrial base and industrializing fast. We also have much poverty. At a time when we are growing very quickly, there is bound to be some associated inflation, and this inflation is going to start biting our poor badly. So what we need is to keep food prices down. If we only stick with agricultural produce in India, the prices would stay high. So we should consider an FTA with Pakistan, which allows us to import their agricultural produce. If we import their agricultural produce, their inflation will rise even more strongly leading to a worsening of the condition in an already poor land.

Now one may say, that if they start earning money off India, their purchasing power may increase. Yes and Not Necessarily. Feudalism in Pakistan takes care that there is a small layer of rich Zamindars sitting on top a pig pile of poor serfs. The poor workers don't really get that much. So at that level, the trickle down theory doesn't work that well. Secondly Zamindars pay no taxes to the state, which means the money they earn would not be ploughed into the system to make life for Pakistanis better. Zamindars however get more money to pay for other services from local service providers. True, but these services would mostly be of the "security kind". As far as products is concerned, India can see to it that the Zamindars spend most of the money they earn again on Indian products or in their tourism in India itself (of course under surveillance, that they do not do any mischief). So the money we give to the Zamindars comes back to India.

This will allow India to use Punjab and Sindh as a bread-basket for India itself keeping our inflation low while pushing up the inflation in Pakistan, and thus contributing to its own further collapse.

So India buying agricultural produce from Pakistan is a good thing, especially if are able to sell them finished products and Indian travel experience to suck back the money.

And it is good if the Zamindars employ a bigger security detail for themselves, because since the feudals are dependent on their trade with India, they have a vested interest that relations remain good and do not break off, so they would not want to share their money with those who plant bombs in India if they can help it, so a big a security force of their own helps them resist pressure to pay to Jihadi groups. Of course one cannot discount that Zamindars would not be paying Jihadis at all. But even there, through such payments Zamindars may be able to bring down their blood lust to attack targets across the border in India. Moreover the private army of these feudals can be indirectly used by India as well for our operations in Pakistan through the Zamindars.

India would also be able to cultivate an influential lobby in Pakistan.

However as far as industrial produce is concerned, India should try to put up non-tariff barriers to dissuade that. We don't want to help Pakistanis with that.

Secondly India should not hesitate to invest in mining in Pakistan. Some general here or there can get a fat commission, and he will deposit it somewhere in Switzerland, and the money will not really go into the Pakistani treasury, keeping Pakistan poor and on the precipice.

An MFN Status for India would allow to flood the Pakistani market with products made in India. This would shift the economy more towards trade, and less towards industrial production, which is good.

We just need to ensure that no industry really comes up in Pakistan. Low educational standards, little power generation, bad infrastructure, and red tape, and most importantly insecurity can ensure all that.

Summary: We trade with Pakistan. Through trade we both suck off agricultural produce of Pakistan increasing inflation there as well as finish off any industry in Pakistan. We increase our market share of goods in Pakistan and keep our inflation of food stuffs down in India. We also gain valuable influence.

[RajeshA]

Winning the Media War

Since partition, TSP RAPES has been trying to gain acceptance of its own populace that divison has been the mother of all solutions to its biradhers. India has been denying that to TSP RAPES by just taking in all the blows without being the aggressor. TSPians love when India brandishes its anger at pakis. This gives justification to them and hence the division. This makes TSP a reality. This in turn will further cement the justification of division. IOW RAPES have inferiority complex, always want to justify their actions in front of pakiabduls.
Hence TSPians will forever will be the aggressor to make India become angry which in turn makes the aam pakiabduls concur with RAPES.

This passage got me thinking, and an idea which I had earlier, became ripe for presentation.

Doing business with Pakistan has another advantage. It allows India to get involved far more deeply with business and services in Pakistan. That means we have advertising Rupees to spend.

Obviously one route would be through newspapers and even television. Those who ensure the advertising revenues of a media group also influence their editorial policies and ideological bent.

The deeper we get into their economy, the more advertising we will be buying. And that includes, advertising in the Urdu press. We know it is the Urdu press that is the more rabid and more willing to incite hatred towards India. So it is the media area, India cannot afford to ignore. If India wants to push through some point, we would need a strong business relationship with the owners of the media group as well as cordial working relationship with the editorial teams of these Urdu newspapers and tv channels. Actually the English press is not really of much consequence in Pakistan, but they too can be manipulated. But our energies should be used to gain influence over the Urdu press.

If India starts selling products and services in the Pakistani market, we would be getting more involved.

Through this we can ensure that the Urdu Media would always carry the Indian PoV. Even when hostilities should flare up, the Indian side of the story would be given due coverage and prominence.

Urdu Literature

A pity is that most Dharmic literature, most Indic-centric literature never really arrives there where it should - in the hands of our foes. We need to be influencing on mass the thinking of Pakistani minds, but we don't do that, because they never get to really read Indian books, or pro-Indian India-focussed articles. This needs to change.

Indians should be availing of the vast Urdu capacity in India to translate Indian works in Urdu in the Perso-Arabic script, and to make these books available in Pakistan. Also articles translated in Urdu can be made available to the Pakistani people simply through their Urdu media.

So whereas Urdu in India should definitely adopt the Devnagri script, in parallel we should also move for translation of Indian works and India-focussed articles, and Indian PoV articles into Urdu in the Person-Arabic script and push them into Pakistan.

Thus Urdu in Pakistan, which is becoming ever more Persianized can be made more Hindi-near, if India starts providing the Urdu media in Pakistan with Urdu content.

Why not translate most of the Hindu literature into Urdu and provide that to Pakistanis for reading. If it is a bit Persianized, they would feel less bad reading it.

Our Aim - Our Aim is to be able to counter anti-Indian propaganda in Pakistan, and just as Indian Media seems to be heavily Anglo-American oriented and in fact working against Indian interests, so too can we change the media in Pakistan to become pro-India. Of course we will be doing it in a very subtle manner, and it is the subtle manner which requires some tactful management.

In essence, we want to create an alliance between India and Pakistani Zamindars and Pakistani Urdu media to counter both the Pakistani Establishment as well as the Islamist propaganda, or at least blunt it.

When India has to go to war with Pakistan, we want the Pakistani people to also know the Indian side of the story. At the moment TSPA and the RAPE class wouldn't mind a war with India to rally Pakistani public opinion behind it and save itself. So they carry out terror attacks on India to provoke India into a retaliation which supposedly should unite the people of Pakistan behind their Army. We need the Urdu media on our side, telling the Pakistanis the truth, or at least our version of the story as well.

If India wants Pakistan to stew in its own juices, we need a means to prevent them from pulling us in. If the Pakistani Establishment knows that the Pakistani masses are so taken in by the Indian PoV, that they would never believe their story about Indians wanting to destroy Pakistan etc., then they would also rethink the need for terrorist attacks on India. It is important that the Pakistani people view an Indian retaliation as really a retaliation in the face of incessant provocations by the Pakistani establishment, and not as something unprovoked, as something that Pakistan doesn't deserve.

We can influence the Pakistanis through the Urdu media to lose their awe for the TSPA. If India wants to bring out a story of how the Crore Jernails have been fleecing Pakistan and stacking their accounts in Switzerland, then such a story should get through to the Pakistani masses. We should be in a position to tarnish the image of any Pakistani Jernail in Pakistan.

In fact we can have some "Islamist groups" on our payroll in Pakistan, whose sole purpose is to bring out all the crap out on TSPA Jernails, on Pakistani bureaucrats, on everybody which helps this state stay just above water.

[ramana]

X_post....

Fault-lines in Pak establishment. Corps commanders and lower are strongly anti-america (more out of fear of backlash than anything else). Kiyani-Pasha pair is almost neutral with slight tilt towards the anti-america stance. Zardari-Gilani pair is firmly in american camp. Nawaz Sharif and Islamic parties have the backing of Saudis and UAE.

Zardari-Gilani did try to hedge their bets (on army's prompting) and made two trips to China. China is too smart to oblige them. So right now PPP is back in american camp.

The frustrated Pak army tried to take over by replacing PPP with a national government (Imran Khan, Javed Hashmi, Marvi Memon, Jalebi and Quereshi). Remember I mentioned coup alerts in my posts. Americans got wise and really turned on the screws. Army has been clearly warned against taking action against Zardari and party.

The most important decision that will set the future course of action is Pak army operation in N Waziristan. If Pak army refuses, US will come down on them hard; and if they agree there is clear danger of mutiny. The last two army chiefs, Musharaf and Kiyani, both have been subjected to severe questioning by junior officers in various garrisons, the severity bordering on mutiny. The Brigadier who was recently arrested, was one of them.

There is an interesting story going around, I dont remember where I read it. Kayani on one of his garrison visits was accosted by a bunch of rebellious junior officers. The situation turned so bad that a furious Kayani threw his army cap on the ground and threatened to walk out after stepping on the cap. That action is said to have calmed the situation for the time being.

India should be very alert, very ready and in a position to react quickly. But should not do anything that helps Pakistan to wriggle out of Waziristan operation. Americans being americans, will come out with another series of tough demands after operation Waziristan is over.

Pakistan is in a very bad shape, and all this acting tough is mere bluff and bluster. The last nail in the coffin was abandonment by China. The Pak POL stocks are barely enough to last one week.

[RajeshA]

X-post...

TFT had this nugget:
http://www.thefridaytimes.com/beta2/tft ... 15&page=14

Daily Pakistan revealed a Wikileaks detail that Pakistan's then deputy chief of Air Force Khalid Chaudhry said that extremists were converting air force men into extremists like them and it was becoming difficult to force officers not to keep flowing beards like terrorists. He said that extremists inside the force were putting obstacles in the way of carrying out F16 operations in the Tribal Areas.

Leads to this cable, from 2006:
http://www.wiki-leaks.co.nz/cable/2006/ ... D5123.html
that includes this

Given all that Pakistan has done for the U.S., Chaudhry said, Pakistan's military leaders have a difficult time maintaining positive attitudes toward the U.S. amongst enlisted personnel. He cited the suseptibility of the enlisted ranks -- most of whom come from rural villages -- to the influence of extremist Islamic clerics: "You can't imagine what a hard time we have trying to get to trim their beards." (Note: This last comment refers to the tradition of conservative Muslims to grow full beards as a sign of piety. End note.) Chaudhry claimed to receive reports monthly of acts of petty sabotage, which he interpreted as an effort by Islamists amongst the enlisted ranks to prevent PAF aircraft from being deployed in support of security operations in the Federally Administrated Tribal Areas (FATA) along the Afghan border. (Note: Speaking off the record, Chaudhry told A/S Hillen that PAF aircraft are regularly called to provide air support to military and security forces when they get into tight spots in the FATA...dryily adding that Army brass and the ground forces commanders would deny it. End note.)

[RajeshA]

The deafanddumbers seem to have opened a counter-thread called "Managing India's Fall" on their ugly badly managed forum!

As if this is new! They have been planning this from day one! And look where it has got them - in the deepest sh*thole mankind could have dug!

Here's something to liven up your days, Pakilurks. Its all getting ready for your next dinner course.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1c4_1310684156

[Nihat]

The deafanddumbers seem to have opened a counter-thread called "Managing India's Fall" on their ugly badly managed forum!

As if this is new! They have been planning this from day one! And look where it has got them - in the deepest sh*thole mankind could have dug!

Here's something to liven up your days, Pakilurks. Its all getting ready for your next dinner course.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1c4_1310684156

Pakis never cease to surprise and we as Indians have got to ingrain something that we are in a different league to TSP , in every which way possible. There can be no == , there will be no == . A nation which never learn from 60 + yrs. of existence will not learn or evolve now. Pakistan could have made anything out of themselves but they chose this future and so it's their destiny.

as far as "Managing India's fall" goes , as time goes on the picture will become more and more clear by the day.

[A_Gupta]

Mar 6, 2011, Aatish Taseer:
http://www.tera-media.net/aatish/?p=journalism&id=54

When I last left Pakistan, in early 2008, after the death of the opposition leader Benazir Bhutto, I wanted very much not to return. My reason — and this may sound shocking — was that I felt that under the outpouring of sorrow and grief that had followed Bhutto’s death lay a kind of euphoria, a feeling of release at the interruption from the malaise of everyday life in Pakistan.

It was an air similar to that of a festival or carnival. And it was from this corrosive kind of mourning, under which I sensed a nation glorying in blood, that I wished to escape.

[Kanishka]

Pakis never cease to surprise and we as Indians have got to ingrain something that we are in a different league to TSP , in every which way possible. There can be no == , there will be no == . A nation which never learn from 60 + yrs. of existence will not learn or evolve now. Pakistan could have made anything out of themselves but they chose this future and so it's their destiny.

as far as "Managing India's fall" goes , as time goes on the picture will become more and more clear by the day.

They are not just deaf and dumb, but blind as well. They cannot see, they have no vision.
Today's pakistan is a true reflection of their midieval thinking, they have got exactly what they wanted and they want the rest of the world to be like them blood thirsty animals.
Pathetic thought process.

[Samudragupta]

Punjabis themselves are a heterogeneous group comprising different tribes, clans (Qaum) and communities. In Pakistani Punjab these Qaums have more to do with traditional occupations such as blacksmiths or artisans as opposed to rigid social stratifications.

The biradari, which literally means brotherhood is an important unit of Punjabi society, and includes people claiming descent from a common ancestor. The biradaris collectively form larger units known as quoms or tribes

Important quoms within Punjab include the Gondal, Arain, Paracha, Aheer, Awan, Dogar, Gakhars, Gujjars, Jat, Kamboh, Khokhar, Khattar, Mughal, Rajputs, Sheikh and Syeds. Other smaller tribes are the Khateek, Maliar, Rawns, Pashtuns, Baloch, Rehmanis and the Maliks

[JE Menon]

Managing India's "Fall" - an interesting insight into the Pak RAPE mind. They know very well that they cannot start a thread called "Managing India's Failure" - which would be absurd, and they are smart enough to know that (at least). So they start one called "Managing India's Fall" ... in other words, they are going to bring India down. This is something they have been trying to "manage" for six decades, and we know the result.

[RajeshA]

USA's About-Turn on Kashmir

USA has finally decided to come down on Syed Ghulam Nabi Fai, President of Kashmiri American Council in USA. The accusation sounds minor, Mr. Fai not having registered himself as a recipient of foreign money, as he was supposed to do under the Foreign Agents Registration Act, and for lying to federal agents.

But obviously this has far reaching consequences. The Westerners, the Indians who felt at ease in interacting with these pro-Pakistani Kashmiris and the pro-Pakistani Kashmiri Agenda, would not be so easily forthcoming in the future. The prospect of being associated with ISI-supported groups does not really enhance their image as idealists and 'human rights campaigners' and friends of Kashmir.

Those who have participated in these conferences organized by KAC have become for ever tainted by association, and now everybody can chide them as ISI stooges and on being on its payroll. They have been put on the defensive.

Around Kashmir there is a whole "Awareness Industry" flourishing in the West. By charging Mr. Fai of wrongdoing, USA has decided to unravel this whole industry. This unraveling would definitely also have some impact in UK.

So what is the message? Many would simply see it as some tit-for-tat against ISI in America's current round of wrestling with the Pakistani Establishment. But this is crossing the Rubicon. Kashmiri Azadi issue has itself become disgraced in USA and the West as a result of this. Now it officially simply a ISI-sponsored project, and ISI is increasingly getting a very bad reputation.

In the 90s when USA was the unquestioned superpower, there was much open support from the American side for Kashmir and we had the likes of Robin Raphael and others encouraging the Hurriyat and separatists. Probably USA wanted to gain some direct influence in this strategic area. Now however USA's energies for such designs is mostly depleted. USA sees that it is China that has been making inroads into the region. China already controls Aksai Chin, and is now slowly taking over Gilgit-Baltistan.

So at a time, when USA is being forced to acknowledge a strategic rivalry with China, it can hardly be in US's interest to have Indian hold over Kashmir diminish. USA may be interested in seeing India and Pakistan patch up but not at the cost of India losing Kashmir and China making more inroads into the region.

This is a fundamental decision that America now seems to have made. They have told Pakistan to forget Kashmir, or at least to forget that it will be receiving any more American support for Kashmir.

With Pakistan turning away from USA and taking USA for granted, USA also felt that the utility of the Kashmir issue was past its expiry date.

It is not as if KAC was some terrorist organization. KAC was a group supported by dyed in the wool 'liberals' both in USA and from India. Still US decided to pack it up.

The other angle is trust between India and USA. After India turned down the MMRCA offer by USA, there must have been some introspection, as to why Indians still distrust USA. This distrust is to a large extent institutional in India. And this distrust was stopping America from making deeper inroads into an alliance with India. Closing up KAC would certainly help.

It is a first step.

[Jaik]

Rajesh A Garu,

Interesting thoughts, except many in toiletistan can't read, Urdu radio perhaps.....?

[shiv]

Managing India's "Fall" - an interesting insight into the Pak RAPE mind. They know very well that they cannot start a thread called "Managing India's Failure" - which would be absurd, and they are smart enough to know that (at least). So they start one called "Managing India's Fall" ... in other words, they are going to bring India down. This is something they have been trying to "manage" for six decades, and we know the result.

Once I needed to go for a crap in a zoo. It was one of those open toilets with half walls extending maybe 6 feet up - open air. A female zoo elephant called "India" decided to stick its butt over the wall and crap on me just when I was sitting on Pakistan. That was the time when I realised that i should have figured out earlier what to do to manage India's fall.

[RajeshA]

X-Posting from Iran News and Discussions Thread

Well, I don't think we want to deal with the fall out and foot the bill. What do we do with the nutcases next door? The virus is just too deep.

Stuff like interbreeding that you suggested is a good idea and reintegration into the hindu fold is a good solution. Rediscovering their buddhist roots perhaps.

We have to consider different scenarios on fall-out and footing the bill:

Dismemberment/Breakup/Unraveling - Basically this scenario involves that the various provinces break apart from Pakistan, and even some new provinces are created. Each province should go its own way getting its own level of international recognition, responsible for its own fate.

This transformation is required to take away the country from the garrison, the kabila, so that the land that supports them shrinks, they have less strategic depth and less resources to support their level of militarization. First of all it is important that there is no force in Pakistan, that is in a situation to hurt India badly. either conventionally, non-conventionally, or sub-conventionally in any significant way.

This transformation is also required to ensure that any Islamist group taking over power in the area, does not have the free hand to extend their control over all of the Pakistan area, but get confined to some smaller region.

This stage presumes that there will be some internationally recognized government in each break-away province, however weak.

The dismemberment of Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, Serbia and Montenegro, etc. did not cause refugees streaming out to other countries.

There is some possibility of the fall-out spilling over the border into India, if there is too much war and the refugees cannot get shelter in some unaffected part within Pakistan itself. If that happens, India can close her border even more tightly, perhaps with shoot any trespasser order. India can also establish security enclaves within Pakistan itself and allow international help to flow in.

If Pakistan breaks up into various provinces, then yes, then too India would have to financially support the various provinces of our choice, but such financial support would be in lieu of that province working hard to detoxify its population against India, and possibly for strategic reasons. So there would be some footing the bill, but that is preferable to living in the shadow of a nuclear exchange and terrorism as is presently the case.

Failure/Collapse/Disarray/Chaos - This scenario involves that not just Central authority but rather all authority, even the authority of provincial governments has collapsed. Power is wielded by smaller armed gangs and ethnic and religious groups. Increasing poverty would take hold in Pakistan.

Again this transformation helps in getting rid of the kabila as well as of a united Jihadi threat.

This scenario gives India a far bigger leeway to intervene in the area and to play divide and rule politics using proxies. It also allows a level of fragmentation of Pakistani polity where even Dharmic organizations can move in and try to bring salvation to the poor souls. It is also most amenable for Pakeezah Acquisition.

Again there is the question of fall-out on India. The feasibility of creating secured enclaves in Pakistan are better as we would not need the go ahead from some (nominally-)sovereign governments. Refugees can come there, instead of in India. However the refugee pressure on our borders can be much greater, but that does not mean we have to bow to such pressure. We need to keep the borders sealed.

India would again have to earmark a good deal of money for the Pakistan area. However instead of giving the money to the governments of the independent provinces, India would have to send in our own humanitarian missions and NGOs, including Dharmic NGOs and would have to do the detoxification ourselves using both carrots and sticks. We will be need to be a lot more activist but would also have far more control and verification over the detoxification.

Even this scenario is much better than a stable nuclear-armed Pakistan.

Al-Qaida and Taliban Takeover - In this scenario, the whiskey-swirling commanders, the RAPE class, and the Pakistani Government and Constitution is done away with, and Jihadis take over in a coup. Mostly the more jihadi minded commanders in TSPA purge the West-aligned group and take over inviting Al Qaeda and Taliban to join them and establish a Jihadi-Theocracy. More importantly they get control over the nuclear arsenal.

If this happens, Pakistan truly becomes a problem for the whole world, and at least USA would throw everything they have at it, trying to get hold of those weapons of mass destruction. So weapons which were directed only at India would be directed everywhere making everybody jittery and prepared to take action against Pakistan. That would be one benefit.

According to one perspective, it would give Indian Muslims the chance to distance themselves even further from the ideological bent in Pakistan, and sort of create their own non-Pakistani sect/school, making them less vulnerable to Pakistani propaganda and influence. The other perspective would say, that Indian Muslims do not distance themselves adequately from the Pakistanis ideological bent, and as such would be much easier prey to the puritanical message coming from Jihadistan.

At least the minorities in Pakistan would move to India. As hardly any country would want to support this new Pakistan with money, poverty in Pakistan could jump manifold, sending even more refugees towards India. Because of the strength of the regime there, India cannot intervene and create secured enclaves, India would either have to take in the refugees or to shoot them there on the border itself. So in that way, it is a more disadvantageous scenario.

India would not need to give any money to such a regime, but we will have to spend even more in defense and border controls.

[Shrinivasan]

Cross Posting from "Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc" thread

as Pakistan is desirous of durable peace in the region.
Is Pakistan durable?

Hopefully not. But Pakistani pieces would be durable.

"Pakistani Pieces" or "Pieces of Pakistan" would be durable only is the global players want it to be durable. Who would be new players who will exert influence on the pieces which would remain of Pukistan? what are their intentions? how deep is their pocket? all these influences durability.
Let us take Post World War II Germany as an analogy. It was initially carved into FOUR pieces, One each for US, UK, France and USSR (the largest piece), these were roughly equal to the are occupied by the Armies of these countries at the time of cessation of hostilities. Initial plan was to keep these pieces separately but the mess which was UKisthan and France implied that their zone would not be a viable country and could get gobbled up the USSR. US created the Federal Republic of Germany (FGR/FRG) and USS created the German Democratic Republic (GDR) - East Germany. See more info @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Germany

[Shrinivasan]

Cross Posting from "Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc" thread
"rajanb" Wrote
[quote=]^^ Shrini,
Very good analogy. Even in pieces, we would still have the troublesome pieces of Sind & Punjab at our border.

Diplomatically, if we increase our relationship with the Afghans, and we had a good relationship, before it fell apart in the 80's we could increase our diplomatic footprint to Baluchistan.

Life would be better? Tough to say.[/quote]

[Shrinivasan]

Cross Posting from "Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc" thread

Very good analogy. Even in pieces, we would still have the troublesome pieces of Sind & Punjab at our border.

Let us analyse Punjab first. The new state of Punjab would be dependent on Yindia for Water, electricity, trade etc. It is now cut-off from the sea coast so, its trade either needs to go through India or Sindhudesh. Also it will be militarily most powerful state, so it needs to be made Nanga pretty quickly. Expect the RAPE of Punjab to grab and loot whatever they can and quickly emmigrate to Sindh, MidEast, Ukisthan, Urope and Amreeka. Event to SE Asian countries and Australia. So the remaining PakJabis Punjabis owe their daily bread to Yevil Yindoos.
Actually this is an ideal scenario, I expect an Yogoslavia type situation (Civil War) for couple of years before a breakup happens and a Germany/Balkan type structure created. AQ and Telebunnies would not go off quietly, they would finish of the Pakjabis before any settlement is attempted. Crore Commanders might take their armies and carve out provinces (or even countries) for themselves. Former Kingdoms like Bhawalpur would just want to separate from PakJab and become independent.

[RajeshA]

Solving Pakistan: Solution 11

No Watering Holes, No Escape Routes, No Sanctuaries, No Mini-Pakistans, No Respite

The premise is that Pakistanis should find no respite from their hell by migrating into the West and other countries in general.

Now many BRFites have been happy that Pakistanis are turning United Kingdom into another Pakistan. We refer to London as Londonistan, Bradford as Bradfordistan, etc. Perhaps the British deserve all the small-pox they get, but Pakistanis are getting still another platform from where they can wage war against India.

So what are downsides of allowing Pakistanis to live in the West:

1. They earn, either through work or through dole, and they send remittances to Pakistan, keeping Pakistan above water, and enabling Pakistan to continue its war against India.
2. Through their demographic strength and vote-bank politics, they pressurize their politicians to speak out against India and to formulate anti-Indian policies of their respective Governments.
3. They are a motivated group abroad. Through whatever means they have at their disposal, they conduct a vilification campaign against India using the media and opinion-makers in the West.
4. They have built huge networks of organized crime, sea-piracy, nuclear proliferation, drug-trafficking, arms-smuggling, human-trafficking, prostitution-rings, neighborhood gangs, etc. and all these can be used by the ISI for its global reach.
5. Because they often look like Indians, only a bit uglier, they are often mistaken for Indians and in fact they themselves lie to others that they are Indians, they often end up damaging the Brand India and the reputation of Indians through the Pakistani behavior. They own restaurants that they allege to offer Indian cuisine. They organize Bollywood Parties to trap European women and to mint Euros. They are using and abusing Brand India.
6. Even for the common people in Pakistan, it is not good to have their elite plunder the treasury of Pakistan and then move abroad, leaving the poor to bear the consequences. For the elite there is then no stake in development of Pakistan, and hence in improving ties with India.
7. The Pakistani Elites know, that they can afford enmity with India, including a nuclear exchange, without needing to bear the brunt as they will all be having a safe sanctuary in the West - in Europe, in USA, in Canada, in Australia, in New Zealand, in the Gulf, etc., and from a distance they can afford to see the exhilarating sight of mushroom clouds over India. Their sanctuaries abroad give them the feeling that they do not need to bear the consequences of their actions, they can escape responsibility.

[Aditya_V]

Boss: but there is one upside, as long as Pakis were only in the Subcontinent like 1947 and all the terror attacks 1985-2000 were against India the West was encouraging them and Western Elite could present Pakis as such great personalities. With the exposure of pakis to the Mango westerner, Pakis will find it very difficult to get support and sympathy. In fact 15 years ago most Europeans would say why doesnt India give Pakistan Kashmir, today such a prevelant viewpoitn ahs decreased significantly and I see part of it due to direct exposure to Pakis.

[RajeshA]

Aditya_V ji,

you're right. That is an upside. But with Indian rise, and Europe needing India, that upside would not be needed permanently.

[RajeshA]

Solving Pakistan: Solution 11

No Watering Holes, No Escape Routes, No Sanctuaries, No Mini-Pakistans, No Respite

In the West, there is a certain movement developing, call it the Freedom Movement, who have a problem with Islam in the West, as they are finding that Muslims are difficult to integrate into their free societies. Pakistanis are particularly good at remaining a breed apart.

We saw how his history with Pakistanis motivated the Norwegian Anders Behring Breivik to kill 100 people. We saw how Pakistani men abused British teenage girls and forced them into prostitution. Many Pakistanis are also addicted to dole. Slowly Europe is learning how it is to have Pakistanis in their midst.

As and when the Europe is ready, Europeans would want to deport Pakistanis back to Pakistan.

Some possible criteria for deportation the Freedom Movement may use:

• If a Muslim immigrant (of Pakistani background) (1st, 2nd, 3rd generation) has been involved in violence or crime, however minor.
• If a Muslim immigrant (of Pakistani background) has received more money from the state than contributed to it.
• If a Muslim immigrant (of Pakistani background) has ever spoken in favor of Sharia Law in some part of Europe.
• If a Muslim immigrant (of Pakistani background) has ever spoken against some European country's foreign policy, especially towards some Muslim land.
• If a Muslim immigrant (of Pakistani background) has ever taken part in some religious sermon critical of the European society.
• If a Muslim immigrant (of Pakistani background) has ever spoken against the political structures in Europe or demonstrated or written against the military of some European country.
• If a Muslim immigrant (of Pakistani background) has ever indulged in rude and intimidating behavior towards any female.

Then the Muslim immigrant (of Pakistani background) would be eligible to be deported back to Pakistan. His citizenship and residence of some European country would be annulled. He would not be allowed to return.

[Aditya_V]

Yes More India rises the more they will use the paki stick to beat us, but if these countries have 5-8% Pakis contantly carrying out terror attacks and Riots we can make sure that everyone supports the wipe out of Pakis as thier Oxygen of Arab -western support, if Pakis can carry out a major say dirty bomb attack on Beijing or Shangai it would be Ideal for us.

[RajeshA]

Solving Pakistan: Solution 11

No Watering Holes, No Escape Routes, No Sanctuaries, No Mini-Pakistans, No Respite

Even if there is a wish on the part of West (and the Gulf) to deport the Pakistani migrants back to Pakistan, it does not mean, that that may even be possible.

The Freedom Movement may become strong enough to overcome the constitutional and legal hurdles to get the deportation going. However the challenge with deportation is that the destination country should be willing to take in the people deported from the migrant country. Pakistan would simply say, they are not the citizens of Pakistan, there is no reason for Pakistan to accept them. In which case, the whole effort would fail. So what to do?

One solution would be to deport the people to a neighboring country to Pakistan to which the borders are relatively open, and if the neighboring country is willing to play the role of a deportation route. Once the deportees land in the neighboring country, the police of the neighboring country take over and transfer the deportee(s) to some place on the border, and leave them to cross the border on their own.

The only country that may be willing to play such a role at the moment would be Afghanistan. Of course for this service, Afghanistan can consider taking a fee - say 10,000 USD per deportee. This can become another source of income for the poor country.

Considering that there are millions of Pakistanis out there, who need to be deported back to Pakistan, and that in aircraft it is difficult to transport people constantly restrained, it would in fact make sense to transport the deportees by sea using a ship.

However Afghanistan does not have sea access. So there would not be some other country willing to take Pakistanis.

UNLESS, unless Pakistan is itself broken up into several smaller countries. In which Baluchistan, or Sindhudesh could also provide the Western countries with the same facility. For say 10,000 USD per head, Baluchistan/Sindhudesh could accept deportees transferred to their countries by ship. From there they would be transported to Pakjab, and left on the border.Baluchistan could then provide the port of disembarkation for the millions of Pakistanis being deported back to Pakjab proper from the Western countries by ships.

For this however to happen, Pakistan would have to be broken up first.

This is another imperative that the Europeans would be able to see, once the political climate in Europe and other Western countries change accordingly. It is also a project in which Europe and India can work together. Recognition of Baluchistan's Independence could be a first step.

This in fact is the focus of this strategy. The Freedom Movement of Europe and India can join forces to create the necessary gateway to Pakistan through which the Pakistani migrants to Europe and their descendants can be sent back to Pakistan. The Anglo-American alliance can also partake in this project.

From the Wikipedia entry on Pakistani Diaspora we see that:

• Europe: 2,200,000
• Americas: 851,385
• Oceania: 25,000
• Gulf: 2,582,000
• Total: 5,657,385

I don't know how correct such numbers are, but the intention should be to get all of these Pakistanis, and most probably they would be Pakjabis, back to Pakjab.

The New Freedom Movement in Europe is a good omen.

[RajeshA]

Yes More India rises the more they will use the paki stick to beat us,

Unless others are used to break up Pakistan.

but if these countries have 5-8% Pakis contantly carrying out terror attacks and Riots we can make sure that everyone supports the wipe out of Pakis as thier Oxygen of Arab -western support, if Pakis can carry out a major say dirty bomb attack on Beijing or Shangai it would be Ideal for us.

Of course, there is not much harm for India in having Pakistanis go and live in China.

[RajeshA]

Solving Pakistan: Solution 11

No Watering Holes, No Escape Routes, No Sanctuaries, No Mini-Pakistans, No Respite



At 6:00 it becomes interesting.

Geert Wilders gave an interview to Danish TV on June 13, 2009, in which he states that the program of the Freedom Movement is to deport back tens of millions of Muslims from Europe. Now for India, the interesting part of that is not necessarily the Muslims in general, but the Pakistanis specifically. Muslims in Europe is not an issue for India, just the Pakistanis are of interest.

[RamaY]

Solving Pakistan: Solution 11


The only country that may be willing to play such a role at the moment would be Afghanistan. Of course for this service, Afghanistan can consider taking a fee - say 10,000 USD per deportee. This can become another source of income for the poor country.
...

From the Wikipedia entry on Pakistani Diaspora we see that:

• Europe: 2,200,000
• Americas: 851,385
• Oceania: 25,000
• Gulf: 2,582,000
• Total: 5,657,385

At this rate, it would cost ~$57B to get rid of the Pakis. I sincerely believe that TSPA/ISI/RAPEs wouldnt want that much money to Afghanistan. So any such offer would be willingly accepted by Pakis themselves.

They can setup a deportation camp in Gwadar port. What happens to the returning pakis could be interesting. My guess is that some of these pakis will turn to Jehad (1% = 56000 people) would slip into China, CAR, ME thru Af-Iran route and few will come to J&K.

Very doable provided all EU govts come together and make that offer to Kiyanahi + Pasha + Duspersenti.

[RajeshA]

Solving Pakistan: Solution 11

No Watering Holes, No Escape Routes, No Sanctuaries, No Mini-Pakistans, No Respite

Solving Pakistan: Solution 11

The only country that may be willing to play such a role at the moment would be Afghanistan. Of course for this service, Afghanistan can consider taking a fee - say 10,000 USD per deportee. This can become another source of income for the poor country.
...

From the Wikipedia entry on Pakistani Diaspora we see that:

• Europe: 2,200,000
• Americas: 851,385
• Oceania: 25,000
• Gulf: 2,582,000
• Total: 5,657,385

At this rate, it would cost ~$57B to get rid of the Pakis. I sincerely believe that TSPA/ISI/RAPEs wouldnt want that much money to Afghanistan. So any such offer would be willingly accepted by Pakis themselves.

They can setup a deportation camp in Gwadar port. What happens to the returning pakis could be interesting. My guess is that some of these pakis will turn to Jehad (1% = 56000 people) would slip into China, CAR, ME thru Af-Iran route and few will come to J&K.

Very doable provided all EU govts come together and make that offer to Kiyanahi + Pasha + Duspersenti.

RamaY ji,

that would be like the GWoT. Americans pay the Pakistanis to fight terrorists, while the Pakistanis produce more terrorists, so that the Americans can pay even more to fight them. That is an old Pakistani trick.

If Pakistan were to collect the payment for accepting their nationals back, then using the human-traffickers, they would be pushing even more Pakistanis into Europe, USA, Canada, Australia, NZ, etc. so as to collect even more such payments.

In fact not just Pakistan but any country other country would then start demanding payment for repatriation of their own nationals back. Should Europe start paying Pakistan for taking back their nationals, they would be setting a very bad precedent indeed. Each country as such has a moral duty to accept its nationals. Payments distract from this moral duty. For this reason as well as not to feed Pakistan's human-trafficking machinery, Europe would be ill-advised to go this route.

However paying a neighboring country of the target country to accept the deportees is justifiable. Somebody else is making the money, and not the potential perpetrator.

Besides it is also in India's interest to persuade the Europeans that a break-up of Pakistan would have an additional benefit to them as they be able to deport their Pakistanis back; and break-up of Pakistan is indeed one of India's main medium term objectives. So why not try to kill two birds with one stone (Sorry to the birds!)

No Pakistani should profit from any of our "dirty schemes"!

[RamaY]

The New Freedom Movement in Europe is a good omen.

This I completely agree with, at many levels.

[RajeshA]

Solving Pakistan: Solution 11

No Watering Holes, No Escape Routes, No Sanctuaries, No Mini-Pakistans, No Respite

Getting rid of Pakistanis in the Gulf is actually a lot more easier. All Gulf monarchies are absolute dictatorships, and if the monarch decides to get rid of Pakistanis and within a couple of months, all Pakistanis would in fact be back in Pakistan.

The second advantage is of course, that the Gulf countries have strict rules as far as naturalization is concerned and the Pakistanis would not be holding citizenship of the Gulf countries either.

Not just that, the Gulf countries often keep the passports of all the foreigners working in the countries in their own custody. This means that neither can a foreign worker leave the land, whenever he wants, e.g. he has done some crime in the country, so he can't just run away. A second benefit in our case is that the Pakistani cannot destroy his passport, thereby delaying his deportation, even if the Pakistani Embassies decide to be less than cooperative in the deportation process.

So the deportation from the Gulf countries is technically easier.

But the question arises, why would the Gulf countries want that. Many Gulf countries have already stopped giving Pakistanis visas, e.g. for Kuwait it has become increasingly difficult for Pakistanis. So the Gulf countries too sense that there is something dangerous about Pakistan.

This feeling needs to increased manifold. Indian intelligence must dig up a lot more dirt on what the Pakistanis are up to in the Gulf region and impress upon the Gulf countries that they pose a grave threat to their stability.

Furthermore as India shows willingness to enter into some form of alliance with the Gulf Cooperation Council, Indian voice would get far more weight in the corridors of power in the Gulf, and we should use any increased influence to transplant Pakistani workers with workers from somewhere else.

In the end, the goal is to push back the Pakistanis from all parts of the world where they feel safe, which they can use against India, and where they can run away to after harming India.

If the Pakjabis start feeling that they cannot go anywhere in the world after a nuclear strike against India, then Pakjabis may start seeing the benefit of reaching some detente with India.

[RajeshA]

Solving Pakistan: Solution 12

Instruments of Secession

Several Princely States acceded to Pakistan after Pakistan's Independence. Many Royal Families were deprived of their royal titles not long after that, many in 1969. Now this accession can be put into question.

The erstwhile royal families can claim, that at the time of Independence, the Founder of Pakistan, Mohammed Ali Jinnah gave their fathers an assurance that everything would be done for the welfare and prosperity of their states and subjects. And since Pakistan has done nothing of the sort, the areas of erstwhile princely states having been totally neglected for development, the royal families of the erstwhile states have decided to leave the Union of Pakistan and to look for salvation outside it, as independent states, and now they consider the Instruments of Accession to Pakistan as null and void.

All the heirs to the thrones of these erstwhile princely states can sign a charter that they will collectively try to regain their Independence. They consider themselves only as titular heads and after the Independence of these states, these would become constitutional monarchies. They would again only be constitutional figure-heads while the various countries would be ruled by democracy - true democracy.

They will collectively try to set up their armies and win freedom from Pakistan.

Now what would be the use of such a Declaration?

Well for one thing it would give Pakistan and Pakistanis the impression that Pakistan is moving towards unraveling rather than towards consolidation. The momentum of unraveling needs to be kept up.

Also the various "armies" that can be set up and pledge loyalty to their respective erstwhile princely states, can be useful fifth column in Pakistan for India and others. These armies can be adopted by India, and even others, and thus facilitating an external hand in the events on the ground. These armies can be then replenished with weapons, etc. by India or even by other countries.

The best thing would be if the royals set up a collective government in exile outside Pakistan, either in India, or some Western country - France, USA, Italy, Uzbekistan, etc. They can appoint their Regents to look after business and insurgency back home.

It is possible that now that the relations between West and Pakistan are coming apart, West may in fact be very interested in the movement, and some support can be forthcoming.

[RajeshA]

Solving Pakistan: Solution 12

Instruments of Secession

Warning: Try not to puke!

India should actively try to get into contact with the heirs of the various rulers of erstwhile princely states in Pakistan and encourage them to declare the Independence of their erstwhile princely states from Pakistan. India and Western countries should offer them generous help. It is quite possible that these heirs to the throne would be able to gather sufficient number of followers, who are fed up of life in Pakistan, and promise them a better future.

Some people India can target for this Council of Princes would be:

From another entry on the erstwhile princely states.

H.H. Amir of Bahawalpur
Haji Muhammad Abbas Khan Abbasi Bahadur

H.H. Khan of Kalat
Suleiman Daud Ahmadzai

H.H. Mehtar of Chitral
H.H. Mehtar Muhammad Saif ul-Mulk Nasir

H.H. Mir of Hunza
Mir Ghazanfar Ali Khan

H.H. Wali of Swat
H.H. Miangul F.K. Aurangzeb

H.H. Mir of Khaipur
H.H. Mir George 'Ali Murad Khan II Talpur

H.H. Nawab of Amb
Salahuddin Saeed Khan

Nawab of Dir
Muhammad Shah Khan Khusro


Now all of these princes have done their duty towards the Pakistani State, but new times are dawning and Pakistan is not loved all that much. It would be time for these princes to jump ship.

[JE Menon]

Elvis is alive... in Chitral.

[A_Gupta]

(PDF file)
http://pakteahouse.net/wp-content/uploa ... ew-CPG.pdf

Pakistan’s ‘crisis’ in governance has now acquired an axiomatic status. Local and foreign experts have been grappling with the precise nature of how Pakistan has transformed over the past decades. In particular, the state’s inability to turn into a citizen responsive, accountable entity is a major tragedy of our times. Ilhan Niaz’s award-winning book, The Culture Of Power And Governance Of Pakistan 1947-2008, is a significant narrative on the philosophical and historical dimensions of governance or lack thereof. Perhaps the most impressive part of his endeavour is the fact that his is an indigenous analysis, emanating very much from a Pakistani scholar who has chosen to rough it out in a public sector university.

The book uses a wide range of declassified records available at the National Documentation Centre in Islamabad and, therefore, posits a fresh perspective on both the political history of Pakistan as well as how the culture of exercising power in South Asia permeated the insular, mock-Weberian state created by the British. In this respect, it is worthwhile to say that Niaz has also ventured into exploring the marked regression of Pakistan’s ruling elite — something that few studies before his have attempted. As he puts it, the state apparatus has over time become arbitrary, proprietary and delusional.

[RajeshA]

Downgrading Pakistani Nuclear Capacity

One angle we should be thinking about is how to degrade Pakistani Nuclear Capacity by targeting their education. It is education, that will provide Pakistanis with their engineers, scientists, doctors, etc for their nuclear establishment.

Of course, many of their education institutes have become heavily politicisized, and not just politicized but Islamicized. In an atmosphere which is intimidating, neither the teachers nor the students would find much time for academic pursuit. So the politicisation and Islamization of their education institutes is to be welcomed. If India can help here somewhere, we should do it by pushing both politicisation and Islamization of education institutions. In fact, India should ourselves try to increase influence over various political groups at the college and university level by funding them. It allows India to gain influence over the next generation of Pakistani warlords. With influence over these student political groups we can target certain faculties, teachers and students much more surgically.

These student political organizations can on one pretext or another also cause temporary closure of these institutes.

Secondly we have been seeing that Pakistan does not invest sufficient money in education. Here if India gets Pakistan into an arms race, Pakistan would have still less money left for education. Through these student political groups we can ensure that even the money that various colleges receive, they too are squandered on unproductive activities.

The effort is to force the permanent closure of Pakistan's science, technology and engineering educational institutions if possible.

Another method of degrading the quality of education in Pakistan is to attract the cream of educational talent to someplace outside. It can be the West. The downside of it, is of course that even if they migrate, these Pakistanis remain Pakistanis, their hate towards India remains unchanged and in fact get recruited by ISI to work against India and Indians.

We could allow these Pakistani professors to come to India. In India we can better ensure that they do not do anything against India and Indics. Moreover we can make use of their skills and knowledge for the education of our own.

The procedure for immigration of these few select Pakistanis should be that they give up Pakistani passports to Indian authorities for custody. They would be provided with first two-year staying permits, and after 20 years with a permanent staying permit. They would as such never be naturalized as Indians, and never get a chance to vote. Their children who are born in India can get Indian citizenship once they turn 18 years of age, not before that. Any comment by them to which some Indian NGO takes umbrage as being an anti-Indian comment, can be grounds enough for deportation back to Pakistan, so they should resist abusing the hospitality of India. Before their children born in India turn 18, these children too are vulnerable to be sent back to Pakistan.

I consider these conditions to be sufficiently strict to dissuade a Pakistani from showing his Pakistaniyat after migrating to India. However other than these limitations, the Pakistani academic would be treated with dignity.

If of course the Pakistani decides to convert to some Dharmic belief system, then he can be naturalized much more easily, as asylum aspects become relevant as well. The issue was discussed earlier in context of Bangladesh.

The issue is to get the Pakistani academics, especially those specialized in physics, nuclear sciences, metallurgy, mechanical engineering, etc. out of Pakistan, so that these academics cannot be used by Pakistan anymore to feed its nuclear ambitions.

Nuclear Scientists: - Same is the case with nuclear scientists working at the nuclear installations in Pakistan.

India should be pro-active in encouraging in making contact with these scientists and encouraging them to move to India. These scientists, engineers and technicians would be an enormous source of intelligence on the nuclear installations and capabilities of Pakistan.

These scientists can then work in India in some non-critical field, like education in some college, etc., where they cannot compromise Indian security, or they can work on some small projects in the Indian nuclear establishment also, where they are given limited access to resources and kept under supervision.

The question is how to get these scientists over to India from under the nose of the ISI. One possible route could be if these scientists travel to countries like KSA, UAE, Turkey, Iran, Malaysia, etc. then once there with their families, they can be given Indian visas, and they can move to India.

The more we degrade the nuclear knowledge base of Pakistan and the more intelligence we gather on Pakistani nukes, the better positioned India would be to deal with Pakistan.

[RajeshA]

The Saudi Reorientation

It seems Pakistan is at it again, like the whore it is.

Once USA starts tightening the screws, Pakistan threatens to go and get screwed by China.

Once KSA fails to be sufficiently generous, Pakistan threatens to go and bed Iran.

It is time for USA and KSA to get over their infatuation with this whore!

It is also time that KSA sees the benefits of separating Baluchistan from Pakistan. Without any border with Iran, Pakistan would not have the same relevance to Iran. KSA simply needs Pakistani manpower to assist it in its security. Violation of Pakistan's territorial integrity should not be any skin off KSA's nose.

In fact, India can make the argument that without Baluchistan, Pakistan would be far more dependent on Saudi Oil baksheesh than Iranian Gas baksheesh, as an independent Baluchistan would probably not allow Iranians to export gas to Pakistan.

The more desperate Pakistanis get for energy, the easier it would be to manipulate them even with smaller levels of Oil baksheesh. So it should be in Saudi interest to make Baluchistan independent.

[svinayak]

(PDF file)
http://pakteahouse.net/wp-content/uploa ... ew-CPG.pdf
Pakistan’s ‘crisis’ in governance has now acquired an axiomatic status. Local and foreign experts have been grappling with the precise nature of how Pakistan has transformed over the past decades. In particular, the state’s inability to turn into a citizen responsive, accountable entity is a major tragedy of our times. Ilhan Niaz’s award-winning book, The Culture Of Power And Governance Of Pakistan 1947-2008, is a significant narrative on the philosophical and historical dimensions of governance or lack thereof. Perhaps the most impressive part of his endeavour is the fact that his is an indigenous analysis, emanating very much from a Pakistani scholar who has chosen to rough it out in a public sector university.

All the books will be written but the country can be fixed if that is what is really they want.
The real reason for this that ruling elite was only focused on India and trying to keep India down in every part of the world.
One of the main focus was to oppose India in the international forum. Then go to other regions to create alternate version of "south asia" and to threaten them to work with Pakistan instead of India.

Those countries which were opposed to India were natural 'friends of Pakistan' and Pakistan elite became the darling of this global elite.

Pakistan formed partnership with those countries which got benefit since elite was willing to do anything to accommodate them. One example is the US engagement with Pakistan from 1957. Pakistan formed alliance with those countries who were neighbors of India and created a anti-India coalition.

In this entire last 5 decade the Pak elite had hardly any time to care for their country. This info is missing from all these books.

[RajeshA]

Dealing with Jihadist Infrastructure

It is true, there are some paths which lead to a broken up Pakistan, there are some which lead to a Pakistan with a castrated Army, there are some which lead to a denuked Pakistan, but there are very few which lead to a de-Jihadized Pakistan.

If one wants to drain the swamp of Jihadis, there is no getting around the Islamic infrastructure in Pakistan - the masjids, the madrassas, the tanzeems, the lashkars, the mullahs!

There are three ways of dealing with it:

1. We take de-facto control over the various masjid and madrassa systems. - This could be done indirectly through by subduing the Saudi Charities, who continue to bankroll the Islamic system in Pakistan, and by using this channel to introduce reform in the system. Perhaps at some point one can bring them over to a system mentioned earlier as "Hindislam" and from there over to the Dharmic fold again. It would be a very long process, and it would definitely require discretion. And basically the world powers may not allow us to clean our neighborhood.
2. We use the machete to cut through the weed - Here we are really talking of a civilizational war or a scenario which gives the Indic Civilization the license to go at it with everything we have. All in all, a very costly route.
3. We stoke fratricide among the Islamists

Increase Fragmentation - There are still too few sects of Islam in Pakistan. We need a lot more fragmentation among the Islamists. As such India discretely should support every obscure sect in Pakistan to come up, as long as it is willing to assert its own identity, separate from others. There may be many such small sects, built around one or the other charismatic ethnic Muslim leader. We give them more money and arms to increase their dawa offerings and security provision.

Arm the Military Wings of Various Sects - India should be lavish in giving arms to the various military wings of the various sects and subsects. Only with a strong military wing would a sub-sect really be able to assert itself. In fact India should have complete control over the commanders of the military wings, through middlemen naturally. Each military wing should be given training for assassinations as well as bombings. We should be able to decide who becomes the overall commander. We should be able to decide how and when the military wing attacks or retaliates. We should be able to decide whom to target.

Targeting the Ulema and other Charismatic Leaders - Often it is so that the leadership does not get attacked and the pawns lose their life in the civil war. This time it should be different. The military wings should target the leadership of the other sects - the ulema, the commanders, etc. One can imagine each subsect in war with every other, with temporary alliances only. Each trying to kill the ulema of the other subsects. Sooner or later, this process should/would lead to the killing of all ulema. The best way is to first finish off the Ulema of the strongest and fiercest sub-sect first, and then work downwards towards the less fierce sects. As such the less fierce sects should get the better military support. In the end, all Ulema needs to be targeted.

Targeting the Commanders - Once the ulema is finished, it would be time to finish off the commanders of the various military wings and outfits, for sooner or later, the commanders would take over without the need for any associated ulema. Again the same process of elimination needs to be carried out. Any charismatic leader taking over a group, should be eliminated. The only commanders who should be spared are those who are willing to openly acknowledge their allegiance to India and an Indian takeover.

Dharmicization - Once the Ulema and the Ghazis have been eliminated, only then should India openly move in to take over the leadership and to encourage the mango Abduls to make the transition to a different path.

This I feel is the most cost-effective way! The Devil is of course in the implementation! But India with many resources and Pakistan completely failed as an economy and state are conducive preconditions for this strategy.

[RajeshA]

Reclaiming Pakistan Territory

We discussed earlier the concept of Land for Terror. One of the important question, when considering an attack on Pakistan to avenge any terrorist attack on India is to evaluate which piece of Geography would also give India the most strategic value. We have often considered that the land grab should be in PoK, as that constitutes de-jure Indian Land. We have also considered a land grab in Punjab region, as that would hit the H&D of the Pakistani Generals far closer to home.

Here I'd like to suggest that we should concentrate on the South, on Sindh. Below is the political map of Sindh.



Districts of Sindh
There are 23 districts in Sindh, Pakistan.

1. Karachi
2. Jamshoro
3. Thatta
4. Badin
5. Tharparkar
6. Umerkot
7. Mirpur Khas
8. Tando Allahyar
9. Naushahro Feroze
10. Tando Muhammad Khan
11. Hyderabad
12. Sanghar
13. Khairpur
14. Benazirabad
15. Dadu
16. Qambar Shahdadkot
17. Larkana
18. Matiari
19. Ghotki
20. Shikarpur
21. Jacobabad
22. Sukkur
23. Kashmore

As we see, there are practically only two districts in Sindh which separate India from Baluchistan - Thatta and Karachi.

Thatta District had a population of 1,113,194 as per 1998 census. Today it may be around 2 million. Jamshoro District had a population of 450,000 in 1998 census. Today it may be around a million.

Karachi itself is a region of high concentration of refugees from India - the Mohajirs, who are now in a war with Pahtun migrants at close quarters. But there are also areas of Karachi District which are somewhat more sparsely populated - Gadap Town, meaning there are areas of Karachi Indian forces can occupy without needing to come into direct contact with the crap in Karachi. If we takeover Jamshoro District, then we get sufficient strategic depth, to push back any Pakistani forces, which may wish to regain territory.

So if Indian forces can "liberate" Thatta District and Gadap Town of Karachi, India is already touching Baluchistan, whose integration into India, we have discussed elsewhere.

The Mohajirs may have been the catalyst for the Partition of India, but there also has been severe disenchantment among them about their place in Pakistan. One often hears noises from them, that it was a mistake.

If India is touching Karachi through Thatta District, then Mohajirs may feel inclined to change their loyalties towards India again. Mohajirs of Karachi can build their own army to put pressure on Pashtuns in Karachi, ably supported by India, as well as in Hyderabad, which is to the North of Thatta District, on the Pakistani troops themselves.

If the allegiance of the Mohajirs change, as I would expect, then it becomes very easy to explain to the world that all is not right with Pakistan, and that Pakistan did not deserve sovereignty over these areas anyway.

India also has the possibility of settling Pakistani Hindus in Thatta District and Jamshoro District, thus claiming them as India proper. Then there are Indian Sindhis, who would perhaps have an interest in reclaiming their heritage there.

As far as the Pashtun enclave in Karachi is concerned, either India could get the Mohajirs to do a full ethnic cleansing of the area, or India can come to some understanding with the Pashtuns there, and use the services of these Pushtuns to control the Pushtun pressure on Pakjab.

So what are the benefits for India:

1. Once Baluchistan is liberated, India gets a direct land route to both Iran and the Gulf.
2. Once Baluchistan is liberated, India gets a direct land route to Central Asia.
3. Energy can flow through Oil & Gas Pipelines from both Iran and Turkmenistan - IPI and TAPI become possible.
4. Pakistan would become a totally land-locked region, with no access to sea, neither through Sindh, nor through Baluchistan.
5. China's efforts to link up with Iran through PoK would come to naught, and hence China may decide against expanding into PoK itself.

And what is stopping a realignment of Asia in favor of India - the Thatta District!

[RajeshA]

Reclaiming Pakistan Territory

The other method of gaining control over the Thatta District of Sindh is simply to get the Mohajirs of Pakistan to start a war of liberation from Pakistan claiming Karachi, Hyderabad, Jamshoro and Thatta Districts for Mohajirstan.

Seeing the way, the Pushtun are entering Karachi and settling there, it is obvious that the Mohajirs would be losing their monopoly of power over Karachi, and considering that the Mohajirs still represent only about 7.57% of the Pakistani population, with their power centers based in cities like Karachi and Hyderabad, should they lose control over these cities, they in fact lose all control and end up being a powerless minority of Pakistan. The writing is on the wall.

The Pushtuns have started insulting Mohajirs on their race, origin, etc. More Taliban are coming into the city. This dynamic would continue until they lose all power. Their only chance actually lies in aligning with a power which is both willing and capable to put an end to this loss of power. The Pakistani Army would not do it, because they are quite content in seeing the Mohajirs losing their influence in Pakistan and in the Gateway of Pakistan - Karachi. They are also quite content in diverting Pushtun energy towards Karachi and not Pakjab. So the Pakistani Army would not be helping Mohajirs. Also the Mohajirs have nothing to offer the Americans. For security of the supply routes to Afghanistan, both the Pakjabis and the Pushtun have a veto. The only other power of some consequence which can do something for the Mohajirs is India.

However India can help Mohajirs only if they too begin their liberation movement and claim Thatta District, as part of their new state of Mohajirstan. That would allow India to move in, "to save the Mohajirs" from a genocide by the Pakistani Army. We would in fact have a very valid reason for intervention. Mohajirs still have relatives in India, and if their Muslim Indian relatives feel concerned for the well-being of Mohajirs in Pakistan, then India, which takes the wishes of the "Indian Muslims" very seriously, would be forced to intervene to stop the bloodshed. In this area, we would probably be needing more tanks when we decide to march in.

What India needs to do in this scenario, is to have a long talk with Mr. Altaf Hussain and his party. Once he says yes, and India has to keep his feet to his promise, then India can start supplying the Mohajirs with weapons and training. There are enough smuggling rings in the region, which can help out.

So a Mohajirstan can be created along Sindh's coastline joining India with the Baluchistan Province. Once we control Mohajirstan and Baluchistan, both very anti-Pakistani regions, with no access to the sea, Pakistan is finished.

May be India can not liberate Baluchistan or Pushtunistan as we do not have a common border with these provinces or regions. But with Mohajirstan, we will definitely have a common border. Secondly being émigrés from India, it is virtually India territory.

Considering that Baluchistan's Liberation Movement too would benefit from an India bordering Baluchistan, one could expect the Baluchis too would be willing to help by sabotaging Pakistani Army infrastructure, gathering intelligence, etc.