Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 2011

[ramana]

Virupaksha,

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 2#p1143642

He notes the Beechcraft pilot waggled his wings in surrender yet he shot is down under orders.
Just a murderer seeking solace for his act.

I have no sympathy for him. He could have escorted the plane to a forced landing.

Also shows the early jihadi turn of the fizzle ya shown later by their senior officers.

To which some people replied that he was only follwoing orders.

I say tell it to the Nuremberg judges who ruled the Nazis were equally responsible for following Hitler's orders.

I have no sympathy for that murderer:
- There were no hostilties at that time
- The Beechcraft a cvilian aircraft appeared lost and was trying to get back to Indian side of border
- The Beechcraft pilot wagged his intention to surrender
Yet the pilot shot him down. His guilty feeling is what haunted him all these years.

Same rascals murdered Sqd Ldr Ahuja after he was shot down in Kargil.

[ramana]

SSridhar, Rohitvats, Shiv et al, I think the PLA is to assure the TSPA of PRC support in case of future hostilities across the Intl Border.

What this means is
- TSPA has "gone for tea"

Once the jihadis internalise the message we can see more Mehran type attacks combined with civilian revolution against the kabila gaurds.

When the kabila gaurds(TSPA) need their own gaurds(PLA) why are they in charge of the kabila?

PLA or not IA can and will take POK and defeat the TSPA.

- TSP crown jewels are not enough to forestall the Indian Armed forces
Needs PLA troops to provide third party involvement.


India can give notice to PLA to vacate before hostilities and most liekly they will vamoose.

- Also means that next round will be conventional for PRC wont like to be nuked for TSP's misdeeds.

This just reduced the nuclear flashpoint bull sh*t.

[shiv]

My personal opinion about Paki nukes is that we cannot depend on those nukes being taken out by USA. That is just a fond hope. We might as well hold on to the other fond hopes that they have no nukes or the nukes don't work. I believe that it is not possible to think or make any plan regarding Pakistan as long as it is thought that Pakis have nukes today, but magically those nukes may go away tomorrow and then al vil be vel.

The easiest way to plan for the future is to plan for the hardest route by saying the Pakis have nukes they can use, and they have American arms and Chinese support. No matter what we do about Pakistan we have to make these three assumptions. Hoping that one or the other will go away will only lead to flawed thinking. If India plans for the worst, anything less than the worst will look like a breeze.

if "the worst" happens we will have nuclear war. I think that has been discussed on here in various threads time and again. It is also a well known fact - from dozens of Indian analyses posted on here that Pakistan has conducted a proxy war against India on the premise that India cannot retaliate for fear of nuclear weapons. The only way to deal with a Pakistan that thinks like this is to plan for nuclear war if necessary - but give them the option of backing down.

But before India plans to rush headlong into nuclear war with Pakistan, a few things need to be done. The first is to actually get the US into the picture and be frank with the US about the aid that Pakistan has got and continues to get which emboldens Pakistan to conduct a low grade war against India.

The second is the China angle. We can talk to China but we cannot depend on them to listen or be sympathetic. Having talked to them we need to prepared to defeat both Pakistan and China militarily in a two front. This is not so difficult if we use nukes. Everyone realises that anyone can defeat anyone else if you use nukes. No one actually wants to be hit by a nuke. So whatever China does has to be done in the full knowledge that an India that is pushed against the wall will nuke China. All this stuff has been said and discussed on and off BRF. It is also stated Indian policy. Only the same old stuff is said on BRF every time by new people and sometimes by the same old people - so the thing to do is just listen and say yeah yeah yeah. If the Indian defence forces say it and Indian official sources say it but people on BRf do not believe it then theer is not alot to talk about - except perhaps have a little fun by calling it dhoti shivering.

The only discussion that is worth getting into IMO is how to catch Pakistan's pieces and settle them without nuclear war, and without any escalation of the current war preferably.

[shiv]

SSridhar, Rohitvats, Shiv et al, I think the PLA is to assure the TSPA of PRC support in case of future hostilities across the Intl Border.

What this means is
- TSPA has "gone for tea"

Once the jihadis internalise the message we can see more Mehran type attacks combined with civilian revolution against the kabila gaurds.

When the kabila gaurds(TSPA) need their own gaurds(PLA) why are they in charge of the kabila?

PLA or not IA can and will take POK and defeat the TSPA.

- TSP crown jewels are not enough to forestall the Indian Armed forces
Needs PLA troops to provide third party involvement.


India can give notice to PLA to vacate before hostilities and most liekly they will vamoose.

- Also means that next round will be conventional for PRC wont like to be nuked for TSP's misdeeds.

This just reduced the nuclear flashpoint bull sh*t.

^^
+1

[subodh]

ramana

"His guilty feeling is what haunted him all these years"

I doubt it. He is a true gazi, who does not get confused or diverted from the rightous path just because a kaffir begged for mercy.

I suspect, even in his old age, he gets a thrill telling the daughter of the person he slaughtered, your dad begged for mercy, yet, i killed him (..in the name of izlam).

There is no remorse.

[anupmisra]

Finally, some positive news from pa'astan. We breed as rabbits,we die like vermin

This callous inhuman politicking brings one fundamental question to the fore: why is human life so cheap in Pakistan?

Unless the runaway population problem is treated as a national crisis, nothing will work even if the government was being run by celestial beings.

For starters, the grass is almost gone as there is little margin for its replenishment here.

By 2025 alone, our projected population is expected to touch a numbing 210 million.

Already, over 40 percent of us live officially under the poverty line. This by the way comes to almost 7.2 crore abjectly poor and desperate individuals. Add to this the fact that over 65 percent of our population is under 25 with barely 16 percent being literate in the real sense of the word and the explosive impact of the simmering rage of the young and the disfranchised human bomb becomes fairly clear. Add another 30 million (we’re talking minimum projections here) to this boiling cauldron of social discontent over the next decade and the consequences should not be difficult to fathom.

Ever wonder why agitating mobs are getting bigger and bigger in size and turning more violent?

[ramana]

I agree and feel no forgivness for his crimes should come. BTW some Aman ki Tamasha guy wanted BRF to provide contact info for the victim's daughter so he can spin his own bs.

Rightly it was not given.

[JE Menon]

Guys a humble request. Let's end this discussion about the motives of the PAF officer please. For all intents and purposes the entire exchange and contact was based on humanitarian considerations. The daughter of the murdered pilot apparently has accepted the man's explanation. It is not for us to second guess or undermine her peace of mind. It is not impossible that she may be reading what is written on BR.

[nvishal]

@shiv
India's preparations for "limited wars" situations is already an indication of what indian generals think regarding any possibility of nuke war between india and pakistan. Your arguments seem to end with pakistan tossing nukes on india. What happens after that? Are pakistani generals not capable to comprehend a situation beyond that?

[Aditya_V]

@shiv
India's preparations for "limited wars" situations is already an indication of what indian generals think regarding any possibility of nuke war between india and pakistan. Your arguments seem to end with pakistan tossing nukes on india. What happens after that? Are pakistani generals not capable to comprehend a situation beyond that?

Most have families in Gulf, US and UK, so they may feel nothing much to lose, and will the Human rights lobby in India allow for a retaliation, as long as say Delhi and Mumbai are not taken out and only tactical Nukes are used against Indian soldiers, there is strong possibility that the WKK brigade will use its influence on the relevant powers in India to sue for peace.

[subodh]

JEM - fair point about her potentially being hurt reading what i wrote.

But I feel equally hurt when any member of that vile country's sword arm is given even the slightest iota of the benefit of the doubt about their intentions. I have my own personal reasons for that.

But io will obviously heed your request and not post any more on this issue.

[ramana]

Guys a humble request. Let's end this discussion about the motives of the PAF officer please. For all intents and purposes the entire exchange and contact was based on humanitarian considerations. The daughter of the murdered pilot apparently has accepted the man's explanation. It is not for us to second guess or undermine her peace of mind. It is not impossible that she may be reading what is written on BR.

JEM, Has the world dropped the German involvement in the Nazi war crimes?

Its beyond just the victim's daughter when crimes are committed. This smacks of blood money to settle crimes. What the guy did is despicable and inhumane.

I feel a lot for the daughter who lost her father and finally got some closure of what happened that fateful day. Can the guy bring back the joy to her life or the relatives of the rest of the people on that plane?

What humanitarian considerations are involved?

[JE Menon]

>>JEM, Has the world dropped the German involvement in the Nazi war crimes?

No. Nor am I saying this guy should be excused.

>>Its beyond just the victim's daughter when crimes are committed.

Certainly. No one is disputing this either. But that is a separate matter for governmental agencies to take up.

>>This smacks of blood money to settle crimes.

I don't think any payment was made.

>>What the guy did is despicable and inhumane.

It appears that even the murderer agrees with that assessment. I definitely don't disagree.

The point I'm making is that the daughter herself appears to have accepted the man's overtures, and has remained silent. Pending her reaction in public, we should hold our horses. The very fact that she was open to the overture should tell us that she was not opposed to interaction.

>>Can the guy bring back the joy to her life or the relatives of the rest of the people on that plane?

Surely you don't expect a "yes" answer to this one. But like you pointed out maybe she "finally got some closure" (although this closure business is not something I necessarily agree with), but maybe she did. Whatever she got out of it, the point is she accepted his overtures. And that is the humanitarian consideration involved. That the wronged person can, perhaps, get some kind of relief, whatever it may be.

This does not automatically mean that the crime is exonerated.

[ramana]

Thanks.Clears up matters.

[shiv]

@shiv
India's preparations for "limited wars" situations is already an indication of what indian generals think regarding any possibility of nuke war between india and pakistan. Your arguments seem to end with pakistan tossing nukes on india. What happens after that? Are pakistani generals not capable to comprehend a situation beyond that?

Good question. I am certain that Paki generals know what comes next. There is a level beyond which I will not take my analysis because of the difficulty of discussing what happens after that. I end with that because that is a "worst case" scenario and there is a lot that can be done and a lot that might happen before that. But whatever can be done before a nuclear war can occur - I am of the opinion that keeping fingers crossed that Paki nukes will be spirited away by the US should not be part of the planning. That was the purpose of my post. What happens after nuclear war has actually been discussed a lot on BRF but it was not my intention to go there.

[Johann]

I would agree with Shiv.

The Americans in the post-9/11 era spent a lot of time and money discussing, planning, threatening and attempting forceful counter-proliferation. Intercepting shipments in international waters and airspace, covert action, contingency planning for striking nuclear infrastructure and/or bombs in the basement.

The last part in particular is hugely risky, and sometimes has enormous long term consequences and costs as Iraq showed. America is going through a belt-tightening phase, and while I do not see a retreat from the world's stage, I do expect more caution as the temporary euphoria at their triumph over the Soviets in the Cold War fades away.

In the end deterrence is cheaper and safer than military counter-proliferation. That is what the Americans concluded back in the 1940s, 50s and 60s when the considered pre-emptively striking Soviet and later PRC nuclear infrastructure.

If America can not prevent Iran from getting the bomb through sanctions, threats and covert action it will settle for deterring it. I believe it will do the same with Pakistan in the end - some of those messages have already been semi-privately conveyed to them.

[shiv]

some of those messages have already been semi-privately conveyed to them.

And pretty forcefully I would guess. Any country using a nuclear weapon would be causing some serious disruption of the world order. There should be (and there will be IMO) no question of letting such a nation get away lightly. Nuclear weapons are too serious an issue.

[nvishal]

@Aditya_V
You are doing some very wild thinking. Such theories only provide distraction to logical reasoning.

@shiv
A nuke war will drag every major power into this region. That's a fact. Anyone who has taken part in this nuke war is going to be a target. They are not going to wait till we fire all nukes one after another. The moment one flies, you'll see first strikes arriving from different continents in an effort to secure the damage within this region, the locals be damned.

Pakistan is not going to fire nukes. They've cultivated a psychological deterrence by appearing to be all yahoo. What an army(IA) prepares for on the ground is an indication of what it thinks.

@Johann
Pre-empting pakistans nuke arsenal will sever all ties with the PA. If it does go after them, the pak administration will give them willingly. But this will also guarantee the passage of nuke secrets to the islamic militants.

[arun]

X Posted from the Pakistani Role in Global Terrorism thread.

Former US Intelligence officials views on the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s two timing.

Former Central Intelligence Agency Director Michael Hayden:

"It is clear, it is unarguable, that the Pakistani government, particularly the Pakistani security establishment - the army and the ISI - view the Haqqani network, that's the Taliban group in North Waziristan, [as] more of an - in their calculus they know it's an enemy of the United States, but in their calculus it's dominated by the fact that they believe that the Haqqani network is a friend of Pakistan. And that may be the single most troubling aspect of the relationship: our divergence of views on that particular network,"

Former Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair:

"There were trying, and they still are, to take advantage of the help that they can get from the United States while still thinking, well, maybe the United States won't be here, maybe we have to look out for our own interests, and we need contact with many different groups, both countries and these various terrorist groups. And in addition, they have a tradition of trying to play off these extremist groups against each another."

Read it all:

Former US Intelligence Chiefs: Pakistan Must Stop Playing Both Sides

[Aditya_V]

Sorry nvishal -> one of reasons in India the public and elite are very selfish, if as long as any of the Political Elite family are untouched, no retaliation will happen, thats why RG sees RSS- BJP as a greater threat and feels LET is not much of threat as he has no feeling for the aam aadmi who gets brains blown out in a bomb attack. The Indian elite will tolerate a lot of pain to others in return for thier families and wealth stashed abroad safety. Even infosys and other companies lobbied openly against operation parakram to save business interests , its anther matter that the countries appetite for war completly disapated when Godra and post Godhra riots happened during operation Parakram.

[Johann]

some of those messages have already been semi-privately conveyed to them.

And pretty forcefully I would guess. Any country using a nuclear weapon would be causing some serious disruption of the world order. There should be (and there will be IMO) no question of letting such a nation get away lightly. Nuclear weapons are too serious an issue.

Since its Pakistan thats the country in question they've more or less come to the same position as India; any fissile material weapon from your stockpile that is used on us will result in extremely severe consequence for you, regardless of whether it was filched and used without authorisation. That's the stick

The difference from India's position is that there is also a carrot. The Americans are simultaneously trying to help the PA maintain total control over its stockpiles, echoing the program of assistance to the Russians after the Soviet collapse when there was a serious threat of leakage.

It is this combination of approaches that leads some people to think that they can count on a US non-nuclear first strike on the Pakistani nuclear deterrent. I believe this is quite wrong. For the most part it is a deterrent posture, and if it was triggered it would be in response to nuclear incidents, or *after* some sort of total breakdown within the PA, not before.

[sanjeevpunj]

American use of the nukes was at a time when the world was not really aware of the magnitude of destruction it could lead to.Soon after, it generated a lot of resentment to the US action not just in Japan, but worldwide, and it was condemned everywhere.Today, use of Nukes is taboo.Any country using Nukes as a first attack policy will trigger destruction on a scale much worse than Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

@nVishal - Yes, it won't be Pakistan, I feel the same.

Iran is more likely to use the opportunity it gets to hit out at the Vatican. Iran feels threatened by Vatican's invisible control, and will try to do a nuke job.This might sound irrational though, I am still wracking my little brain about this, about how I conclude that it will be Iran. Perhaps I read a bit too much of Nostradamus.

[shiv]

The difference from India's position is that there is also a carrot. The Americans are simultaneously trying to help the PA maintain total control over its stockpiles, echoing the program of assistance to the Russians after the Soviet collapse when there was a serious threat of leakage.

It is this combination of approaches that leads some people to think that they can count on a US non-nuclear first strike on the Pakistani nuclear deterrent. I believe this is quite wrong. For the most part it is a deterrent posture, and if it was triggered it would be in response to nuclear incidents, or *after* some sort of total breakdown within the PA, not before.

The big question mark here (to my mind) comes from the reports (some anecdotal, "personal communication") that the US successfully got Musharraf to install US style PALs on Paki nukes. Public statements thereafter have stated that a whole lot of people (Indian, US officials) believe that Paki nukes are "safe" but whether all of them are accounted for is unknown. The most common concern expressed (again by US and Indian official in the media) is not about Paki nukes but nuclear material.

[JE Menon]

The PAF pilot Qais Hussein and appropriateness issue is moot. All are happily chatting on NDTV

Qais Hussein, Farida Singh, and two members of the Mehta family whose father/grandfather was also killed.

Barkha is oozing aman ke aasha.

[nvishal]

@Aditya_V
The indian military institution will honour its role by staying out of politics. It might ignore bad political decisions affecting military objectives but there is no way it is going to ignore treason. The NDA and UPA clearly have different arrangements wrt its dealings with pakistan but you go too far by suggesting that one of them is anti-india.

[Aditya_V]

@Aditya_V
The indian military institution will honour its role by staying out of politics. It might ignore bad political decisions affecting military objectives but there is no way it is going to ignore treason. The NDA and UPA clearly have different arrangements wrt its dealings with pakistan but you go too far by suggesting that one of them is anti-india.

Not all of them as black and white, there are jaswant Singh's and AK Antony's on either side.

[BijuShet]

From The News (posting in full)
19 brigadiers promoted to major generals

Updated 8 hours ago
RAWALPINDI: The Pakistan Army Promotion Board approved the promotion of 19 brigadiers to the rank of major general on Wednesday, Geo News reported.

The decision was made at the promotion board meeting held at the General Headquarters in Rawalpindi chaired by Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani. All corps commanders, principal staff officers and senior army officials were also present in the meeting.

The names of 19 brigadiers who were promoted to major general include: Umar Durrani, Ahmed Mahmood, Tariq Masood, Tahir Javed, Nazir Butt, Mazhar Saleem, Mohammad Jaffar, Najamul Hasan, Ghulam Qamar, Ali Abbas, Amir Riaz, Abid Rafeeq, Asif Khatak, Jameel Rehmat, Saleem Raza, Malik Abbas, Syed Badshah Hussain, Shahab Naqvi and M. Junaid.

[Altair]

19 brigadiers promoted to major generals

Updated 8 hours ago
RAWALPINDI: The Pakistan Army Promotion Board approved the promotion of 19 brigadiers to the rank of major general on Wednesday, Geo News reported.
The decision was made at the promotion board meeting held at the General Headquarters in Rawalpindi chaired by Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani. All corps commanders, principal staff officers and senior army officials were also present in the meeting.

They are preparing for a War. Period

[sanjeevpunj]

^^^The last bout of promotions before they retire forever in their graves.

[CRamS]

I was laughing my ass off at how US (and western) media work for their interests, and at the same time lamenting India's inability to articulate its interests. There was this news report on NPR/BBC about the UK riots. The phrases "looters", "thugs", you name it were used to describe the rioters. David Cameron is a tough PM taking on the evil thugs. Nothing about the wrongs done to the blacks, nothihng. Its was just good (UK) Vs evil (rioting blacks). The very next news item was some profuse praise for a Paki general who apparently apologized to an Indian family for shooring down a plane killing the father some 40 odd years ago. The attempt to make Pakis look good was so obvious. Nothing about the innumerable other Paki crimes against India. Just scripted news. And then I recall the stone-pelting KMs thugs last summer. Recall the sympathy they garnered and the demonization of Indian security forces in the western media then.

[ramana]

So you herad about the murdering Paki pilot on NPR? And this is being sold as good news story?

[BijuShet]

From The Express Tribune(posting in full)
Twenty two polio cases have been reported during the past six months in Balochistan.

22 cases of polio emerge in Balochistan
By PPI
Published: August 8, 2011
QUETTA: Twenty two polio cases have been reported during the past six months in Balochistan.

In 2010, Balochistan had 11 confirmed cases of polio. This indicates an alarming increase, as Pakistan had seen a 62% increase in polio cases last year and is now witnessing an almost a three-fold increase in the current year.

Balochistan currently has the highest number of polio cases in the country with 22 confirmed polio cases so far. Balochistan crossed FATA where 20 cases have been confirmed so far.

The current polio outbreak has resulted in lifelong permanent disability of 22 children in the province and place 1.5 million children under the age of 5 years at risk of developing polio.

The sub optimal quality of campaigns and poor management in districts such as Killa Abdullah and Pishin has resulted in the diseae spreading to previously un-infected districts, including Kohlu, Khuzdar and Noshki.

The world community has already warned Pakistan about the prevailing spread of polio, and the country may face travel and funding restrictions if it fails to bring the number of cases down to zero. Pakistan stands as the only country where the number of polio cases are on the rise

[subodh]

So you herad about the murdering Paki pilot on NPR? And this is being sold as good news story?

The alternate, and imho, true narrative, of a gloating gazi, should be articulated and spread. His recalling the details of the plane wagging its wings as 'asking for mercy' turned my stomach.

[Gerard]

The spread of polio in the country also affects Pakistani travellers, particular those going to Saudi Arabia for Haj, who must now show proof of polio vaccination on entry

Given the corruption in TSP and their affection for various conspiracy theories, of what value would be a "proof of polio vaccination"?
The only way for the Saudis to safeguard their country is to insist that Pakistanis seeking visas turn up at the embassy several months in advance, pay a fee and be administered a polio vaccine on the premises.

[Gus]

Heard on radio that the US has killed the insurgents who did the chopper. I suppose this is the extent to which they can retaliate.

[Gus]

Given the corruption in TSP and their affection for various conspiracy theories, of what value would be a "proof of polio vaccination"? The only way for the Saudis to safeguard their country is to insist that Pakistanis seeking visas turn up at the embassy several months in advance, pay a fee and be administered a polio vaccine on the premises.

The injected ones do leave the mark doesn't it? Is Oral administration the norm nowadays?

What is ironical is that - in many parts the anti-vaccination is spearheaded by the mullahs..citing American conspiracy, 'this is against Islam' etc..

[CRamS]

So you herad about the murdering Paki pilot on NPR? And this is being sold as good news story?

Indeed I did. And thats why I was laughing as to why this is news worthy except to make TSP look good.

And it was also the top of the news hour segment. But it was not from the usual news-reading mouthpiece who pronounces her name is Laaaaaksmeee singh .

[Prem]

Art Curator Beaten By Pakistani Police For 'Indecent' Behavior
( Sharia crreps in one step closer to Poakodors)

A female curator was allegedly beaten for 'indecent' behavior by a police station supervisor in Lahore, Pakistan on August 2, at an art gallery owned by well-known Pakistani architect Nayyar Ali Dada. The offending behavior included wearing sleeveless clothing and interacting with men. According to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, the officer and his subordinates entered the gallery without a warrant and began harassing female guests. The curator was "brutally assaulted," and, according to an Express Tribune blog post, "her colleagues who came to her rescue were taken to the police station and booked under an obsolete ordinance."
Nairang Art Gallery is known locally as a destination for left-leaning intellectuals, the sort of clientele that is generally less inclined to strictly observe Sharia law. Zee News quotes eminent Urdu writer Intizar Hussain, who said, "This is the only place left in Lahore where fake intellectuals can sit for a while."So far, no action has been taken against the policeman, the Station House Officer of Lahore's Shadman police station, though it has been condemned by human rights groups and local commentators.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/1 ... 22818.html

[Y I Patel]

Regarding the Chinese brigade on India's western front.

Awesome news.

Someone had posted Pak Orbat for operations in Tribal Areas. Looks like PA is seriously milking their India-focussed ARN and ARS of sub-units. Their strategy is to keep the Div headquarters on the western front, and just move sub-units out. This creates the impression that Aaal is Well on Eastern Front, when in reality the cupboard is getting depleted. They were operating on the assumption that they will move the sub-units temporarily, but now it seems to be sinking in that the deployed units will need to be there long term just to save Pak's backdoor. And given that these precious units will be actively engaged on Pak western front, they will not be available for redeployment in a reasonable timeframe, should the need arise.

Ironically none of this matters, because India is not going to attack to take advantage of Pakistan's defenselessness from Siachen to Sir Creek. But how can one justify the existance of PA itself, if it is not on permanent alert against Enemy #1? Realize that last year, with the floods cutting of huge parts of Northern Areas, PoK was defenseless against evil Hindus. So Lizard has to come in to "protect" NA, and now again, to "protect" the entire eastern front - all against an enemy that has minimal inclination to rouse itself even against serious and real provocation.

As for the Chinese, they are reducing India's two front problem to a one front problem (albeit a really long one front). And they are exposing themselves to India's real might - never in my wildest dreams had I envisioned that Lizard would be at the tender mercies of the Kharga, Chakra, Chetak, et al. But here they are. Talk about real strategic stupidity.

[ramana]

Art Curator Beaten By Pakistani Police For 'Indecent' Behavior
( Sharia crreps in one step closer to Poakodors)

.....Nairang Art Gallery is known locally as a destination for left-leaning intellectuals, the sort of clientele that is generally less inclined to strictly observe Sharia law. Zee News quotes eminent Urdu writer Intizar Hussain, who said, "This is the only place left in Lahore where fake intellectuals can sit for a while."So far, no action has been taken against the policeman, the Station House Officer of Lahore's Shadman police station, though it has been condemned by human rights groups and local commentators.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/1 ... 22818.html

I guess real intellectuals sit in Rawalpindi barracks and the mosques!