Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 2011

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 05 Sep 2011 06:52

Huh!!
Another bakwaas

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 05 Sep 2011 07:13

This debate on who was a bigger threat, whether it is China or Pakistan, has gon e on for many years. At different times, it has been either one or the other. In the last few years, PRC has once again been spoken of as a bigger threat. This threat perception has been waxing and waning like a moon.

We should make a difference between the two, IMHO. Pakistan is no match for us and the distance is increasing every day, as we all know. It was not like the 50s and 60s when Pakistan was inducting superior weapons and we were not. Besides, Pakistan has been on a free fall since its creation, though it has miraculously been able to survive even after loss of half its territory. But, it is internally much weakened than ever before with no big possibility of overcoming the weakness. So, Pakistan needs sustenance from somebody else. It was the US during Cold War days and it is becoming partly US and largely China today. It appears that the US will almost completely withdraw from Pakistan after some years. PRC will then become its sole benefactor. So, Pakistan cannot be a threat to us in the same way that suddenly China has become. We should have anticipated the Chinese threat since its rise in the 80s. China's political, economic and military clout places its threat in an entirely new class. It is too secretive in its plans and that makes it all the more difficult to decipher its actions and words. About Pakistan we know what it wants to do with us and how it wants to go about it.

Having said that, the situation today has become far more complex. Pakistan is totally abdicating itself to PRC. Just after 26/11, Pakistani FM Qureshi said that PRC can negotiate with India on its behalf ! Gilani goading Karzai to adopt Renminbi instead of USD, Zardari's dozen visits to PRC in the last couple of years thereby making his Presidency look like that of another provincial governor in PRC, the occupation of GB and the rest of POK by PLA, the extensive road & rail network PRC is planning within Pakistan etc. prove the abdication. Pakistan has concluded that only through PRC can it achieve its desire of destroying India. Pakistan is willing to be servile therefore to PRC.

Therefore, we may not confront Pakistan alone in the future because slowly Pakistan is becoming an extension of PRC. We have to plan for a combined operation and that is where the rub is. Like the Taliban being coached, trained and launched by the PA, Pakistan itself has come under the control of PRC.

I think that this is where an opportunity exists for India. The AQAM wants to grasp Pakistan because as a Muslim and a nuclear-weapon country, it is the perfect launch-pad for their global Caliphate ambitions. Large sections of the military at lower ranks and mid-level officers do support such an outcome. The society is getting more radicalized in their favour. The Ahl-e-Sunnat are being converted large scale into Wahhabi/Deobandi mode of thinking. So, the AQAM see a real prospect here. OTOH, there is the other type within Pakistani Establishment who are content with defeating India (but willing to use any tool such as Islamism, jihad, PRC etc). The latter type is increasingly moving towards PRC because the jihadi groups which they created have now turned against them. They feel naked and need PRC's support for their burning revenge against India. The former may not like that and we must therefore sharpen that difference to our advantage.

I therefore think that our planning should be to consider PRC-TSP as just one entity rather than splitting hair on which is a bigger threat because TSP is now subsumed by PRC.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Sep 2011 07:25

If we step away from the aggression and misguided lack of love we feel towards our Pakistani brothers and sisters, we find that the US, Pakistan and India are being consistent and true. I'm not joking.

Pakistan sees a threat from India. India is a threat to Pakistan, created as a homeland for Muslims of the subcontinent. At least those who went there wanted Pakistan. This remains as true in 2011 as it was on direct action day 1946. Pakistan responds to fear of India by arming itself and making allies. The US is an ally of Pakistan.

The US understands and empathises with Pakistan and its threat perception and gives Pakistan arms and financial aid to reduce the threat from India. The US requests India to appear less threatening

Indians for their part understand how threatening Indian must appear to Pakistan and does its utmost to appear less threatening. Continuous talks, concessions and "exchanges" are allowed There are serious efforts to move Indian forces away from the Pakistan border.

Now imagine if all the above statements were not true. Imagine that Pakistan did not see India as a threat. Then Pakistan would simply stop spending too much on its armed forces and would develop into an Asian Tiger - with industries, Universities and tourism. It would serve as the gateway to China which would have rapid transit facilities via Pakistan and Karachi would become a Hong Kong.

The USA for its part would not have to fund the Pakistan army. Friendly and cordial relations would be maintained between Pakistan and the USA. Pakistan and the USA would collaborate and negotiate to bring peace to lawless frontiers in the NWFP and Afghanistan with development, roads, industry and tourism.

India would benefit from not having to spend on shoring up defences against a Pakistan that no longer fears India. Border trade would open up cultural vistas between the brotherly people of both nations and restore a millennia old relationship torn asunder by religious bigotry on both sides.

Guess what all this would mean?

Pakistan was unnecessary in the first place.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Sep 2011 07:42

I am beginning to have a slightly more nuanced "take" on the handing over of PoK and construction projects in Pakistan to the Chinese. I will try and explain the basis of my feeling.

We know for a fact, and we have noted on here time and agian that Pakistan is not a "unified country" with a strong central government that does things in "the interests of Pakistan".

Many projects in Pakistan are initiated by a profit making motive by the owners of the land where the project is to take place, and because those same owners are also "Members of Parliament" or "Senators" - a private profit making "development" project on private land is advertised a s a "Pakistan national development" project.

One possibility that we must keep in mind (and I am not kidding) is that the sudden appearance of the Chinese in variosu areas may just be a symptom of a corrupt Pakistani elite inviting Chinese enterprises for private profit. The Pakistani eliet are hardly "patriotic" about Pakistan the nation. They are "patriotic" about their own condition and the "Pakistaniyat" that gives them their powers. Many projects in Pakistan may well turn out to be the "selling out" of small chunks of Pakistan to the Chinese by people who are basically profiteering traitors who can, if need be, seek refuge in the gulf countries or the west.

This view does not change the Chinese threat. It merely offers a non patriotic, greedy profiteering motive from a sinking Pakistan.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 05 Sep 2011 08:36

IMHO China has always been the bigger threat . Paki's have hardly posed an existential threat to India . They have hardly proved to be competent .

As far as POK is concerned , it was a mistake to not take it in 71 or 99. Similar to the fact that is was a mistake to not bomb PAK nuke program in partnership with the Israeli's. It could be possible that the some people in the US wanted the program bombed . Why else would Israel make such an offer ? Because US needed Paki against the SU it did not do it directly. And US did not have the capability to deal with the Chinese . Besides the fact that there were people in the US establishment who wanted to cosy up to the China.

We should conduct covert ops and make life tough for our lizard fliends. We should ensure that they derive no profit from the TSPians

wig · Post by **wig** » 05 Sep 2011 09:14

meanwhile bakistan's economy continues its growth trajectory= fake currency printed at Pak Govt press at Peshawarl
the Reserve Bank of India that is supposed to control, monitor for currency and is the prosecutor for currency related crimes in India has its job cut out. one finds it Diffcult to believe that Dr Singh, MM who was Governor of RBI in 1983 would be unaware of this. Pakis were using these techniques at that point in time. debasing a currency which is what Pakis have been doing is one of the surest ways to destablise a national economy

The fake currency racketeers involved in funding terrorism across the Kashmir valley have disclosed that Pakistan has installed a Government printing press for printing fake currency at Peshawar, which was being pumped into India especially Jammu and Kashmir from Bangladesh and Nepal.

The disclosures have been made by a West Bengal native, Habibullah and two Kashmiri walnut traders, Ghulam Mohammad Sofi and Abdul Rashid War, residents of Soipora, Kupwara during their sustained interrogation by police after their arrest at Domel near Jhajjar Kotli on Jammu-Srinagar national highway on August 25.

Police sources told the Excelsior that Habibullah, who was a frequent visitor to Bangladesh and Nepal borders to meet his contacts, had been told by the suppliers of fake currency that they were getting it from Peshawar where Pakistan’s Intelligence agencies have installed a Government run printing machine to print fake currency and pump it into various Indian cities, mainly Jammu and Kashmir for funding militancy.
Sources said going by the fine paper used in currency, which can’t be detected as fake very easily, it was possible to print it only by a Government of the country as such a quality paper was not available to the racketeers at their own level.

Habibullah is reported to have told police that the ISI agents in Bangladesh and Nepal borders (who identified themselves only by their code names) had told him during his trips to the two countries that the printing machine was being run by the Intelligence agencies of Pakistan with full backing of their Government.

The printing machine, he said, had been installed in Peshawar under Army patronage.

Police sources said the experts here were also surprised to see the use of very fine quality paper in printing fake currency as such paper was only at the disposal of the Government.
excerpts
According to sources, the racketeers of West Bengal with the help of Kashmiri traders have pumped fake currency worth several crores into the Kashmir valley. Habibullah had admitted that he and his other associates were operating in the Kashmir valley for past four years and not for last three months, as they had disclosed earlier during their preliminary questioning.

During their every trip in a month, the accused were smuggling consignment of Rs 5 lakh to Rs 7 lakh, which they supplied to the traders. In turn, the traders had handed over the currency to some conduits of militants for handing it over to the ultras of different militant outfits as per the list provided from across the border.

Sources said the fake currency was easily smuggled from Peshawar by the Intelligence sleuths of Pakistan themselves to Bangladesh and Nepal borders. From the borders, the currency was collected by the Bengalis and brought to West Bengal (from Bangladesh) and Gorakhpur in Uttar Pradesh from Nepal and transport to the Kashmir valley.

They added that the fake currency had also been pumped into some other States of the country, albeit in very small number.

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 05 Sep 2011 10:10

^There is another government press in Malir, Karachi which also produces FICN.

ISI has penetrated the paper & ink suppliers in Europe from whom India gets its currency printing requirements.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 05 Sep 2011 11:30

Re SS's TSP_PRC axis post...here's yet another dot...connect at will...

From Twitter @pakistaninews
>>Sindh to teach Chinese language in schools from 2013 bit.ly/poIk5X

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 05 Sep 2011 12:37

To think that Pakistan or China are the only problem is the greatest fallacy. Strategically they have conversion on India. They both have border issues with us. They both have history of violence against us.

From purely strategic point of view, they both look at each other as force multipliers. They have in the past coordinated their actions against us.

The problem is in our strategic thinking. Our Govt and leaders have always thought Pakistan and China are two different problems. hence we try to deal with problem separately. This has to stop. China has to be held responsible for pakistan's action.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 05 Sep 2011 12:59

negi wrote:As usual B Raman saar too like MMS shares a destiny with TSP

http://ramanstrategicanalysis.blogspot. ... istan.html

So he asks a question

In this web of geopolitical complexities, what are the policy options before India? Should it keep adding to Pakistan’s feelings of insecurity and instability or take the initiative to lessen Pakistani concerns? Is it possible to lessen those concerns and help Pakistan rid itself of its anti-India reflexes without changing the status quo in J&K and without giving up India’s growing links with Afghanistan?
Look at the prilliant answer in the next paragraph.

Any exercise to demotivate the Pakistani state and help it to rid itself of its fears—which are seen by its army as real and by India as imaginary—has to start with frequent and sustained interactions between the institutions of the two countries: political parties to political parties, parliament to parliament, army to army, intelligence agencies to intelligence agencies, Foreign Office to Foreign Office, and Home Ministry to Home Ministry. Increasing institutional contacts are is as important as increasing people-to-people contacts to dispel the two countries’ imaginary fears of each other.

How should India and Pakistan increase their institutional interactions with each other? That is the basic question to be addressed, and it should be addressed in the context of an overall vision statement agreed to by the two countries. The imaginary fears are more in Pakistan’s mind than in India’s mind. India’s prime minister should take the initiative by visiting Pakistan to set the ball rolling toward an agreed common vision.

Hain salo ? For last 6 decades all you have been doing is having these chai-pakora talks with TSP and have a big ghanta to show for it and now suddenly the solution for the problem is chai-pakora again ?

I certainly expected from B.Raman.

He should know that TSP propagates terror and jihad not because it feels a threat from India but because it is necessary for their own survival. As someone had pointed out earlier , TSP would be a nothing if it were not for it's terror based policies, it would have had to fend for itself and work hard like all other successful nations and TSP is simply not capable of that , mainly because they don't have the brain power or working capacity of a Korean, Japanese, Indian or Chinese person. They are used to getting things easy , from weapons to their nation itself.

Even as far as the China-TSP axis is concerned, China too uses TSP only because TSP has created an artificial threat from India (using terror) and because of this threat China sees sense in outsourcing the "military confrontation" part to TSP and can use it's own resources to confront other threats like Japan and USA and establish dominance in IOR with India distracted by TSP.

B. Raman or any other analyst worth his/her salt should just assume that Terror is TSP's business and you cannot convince it to shut it down because stopping terror will mean that TSP will fall apart along political, ethnic and socioeconomic fault lines.

To manage the Chinese threat , it is necessary to adopt a different approach - while it is important to emphasize to the Chinese the gains that are to be had from a full fledged co-orporation with India , it also vital to let them know that India shares a rather porus border with Xinjiang and Tibet and if China provides overt or covert assistane to TSP in a full blown Indo-Pak conflict then all bets are off.

sum · Post by **sum** » 05 Sep 2011 14:06

The imaginary fears are more in Pakistan’s mind than in India’s mind. India’s prime minister should take the initiative by visiting Pakistan to set the ball rolling toward an agreed common vision.

The guys who have seen Pak perfidy from closest and most unadulterated form turn out to be the biggest WKKs? How does this happen and why does this happen only in Desh??

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 05 Sep 2011 14:22

sum wrote:
The imaginary fears are more in Pakistan’s mind than in India’s mind. India’s prime minister should take the initiative by visiting Pakistan to set the ball rolling toward an agreed common vision.
The guys who have seen Pak perfidy from closest and most unadulterated form turn out to be the biggest WKKs? How does this happen and why does this happen only in Desh??

The only theory left for such drastic change of heart is thirty pieces of silver??

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Sep 2011 14:25

Hari Seldon wrote:Re SS's TSP_PRC axis post...here's yet another dot...connect at will...

From Twitter @pakistaninews
>>Sindh to teach Chinese language in schools from 2013 bit.ly/poIk5X

Pakistan's successful education system should make it convenient for Pakis to go to China. I hope they also teach them about halal pig meat.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 05 Sep 2011 16:10

chetak wrote:
sum wrote:The guys who have seen Pak perfidy from closest and most unadulterated form turn out to be the biggest WKKs? How does this happen and why does this happen only in Desh??
The only theory left for such drastic change of heart is thirty pieces of silver??

Chetak, I think that would be uncharitable at least in this case. As people age, I think their outlook changes. In a public meeting before 26/11, I alluded to Pakistani objectives vis-a-vis India, and his brother, another famous and brilliant IAS officer, nevertheless vehemently counter argued.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Sep 2011 16:26

SSridhar wrote:
chetak wrote:quote="sum"]The guys who have seen Pak perfidy from closest and most unadulterated form turn out to be the biggest WKKs? How does this happen and why does this happen only in Desh?? /quote]
The only theory left for such drastic change of heart is thirty pieces of silver??
Chetak, I think that would be uncharitable at least in this case. As people age, I think their outlook changes. In a public meeting before 26/11, I alluded to Pakistani objectives vis-a-vis India, and his brother, another famous and brilliant IAS officer, nevertheless vehemently counter argued.

SSridhar, I dont think it is uncharitable, let them in a face to face argument with relatives of Armymen killed or injured, people, parents of kids whose limbs and brains have been blown up, shot explain why such terrorism is OK and the men who plan and support such acts need to be rewarded/sympathised with.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 05 Sep 2011 16:52

Apparently, Ms. Pamela Constable has written a scathing book on TSP.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 05 Sep 2011 16:57

Aditya_V wrote:SSridhar, I dont think it is uncharitable, let them in a face to face argument with relatives of Armymen killed or injured, people, parents of kids whose limbs and brains have been blown up, shot explain why such terrorism is OK and the men who plan and support such acts need to be rewarded/sympathised with.

Aditya, if, as I understood, the change of heart after having seen perfidy at the closest possible quarters was due to the magic of 'silver', I do not agree with it. This gentleman did not change colours because of money, if that was what was implied. Even I do not like the change, but this motive does not stick and is unwarranted. That was the uncharitableness I referred to. If that was not implied, I stand to be corrected.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 05 Sep 2011 17:18

Karachi: Godhra clash death toll rises to 8

KARACHI: At least eight people were killed and four others injured in an incident of armed clash between two religious groups in New Karachi’s area called Godhra, SAMAA reported Monday.

The clash occurred yesterday between banned Sunni extremist group 'Sipah-e-Sahaba' and 'Sunni Tehrik'.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 05 Sep 2011 17:50

SSridhar wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:SSridhar, I dont think it is uncharitable, let them in a face to face argument with relatives of Armymen killed or injured, people, parents of kids whose limbs and brains have been blown up, shot explain why such terrorism is OK and the men who plan and support such acts need to be rewarded/sympathised with.
Aditya, if, as I understood, the change of heart after having seen perfidy at the closest possible quarters was due to the magic of 'silver', I do not agree with it. This gentleman did not change colours because of money, if that was what was implied. Even I do not like the change, but this motive does not stick and is unwarranted. That was the uncharitableness I referred to. If that was not implied, I stand to be corrected.

SSridhar ji,

Silver was meant in the rhetorical sense. Money was not implied. My bad for not being clear.

There are many types of "silver".

In aging war horses who can no longer make out the fading glimmer at the end of the long tunnel, their legacy itself can be a greatly worrisome factor.

They all want to leave behind a polished, burnished and glowing legacy topped more often than not with a bright halo. Very few want to be identified as asocial mavericks!

The pakis would have achieved the very purpose of their state sponsored use of terror if they can get some one like our worthy to change his mind and propagate the very opposite of what he was advocating all these days.

There is a not so subtle change of viewpoint that is being put out by this gentleman from whom we had all expected so much. Many have noticed this trend in his recent writings.

This is what causes the distress and sadness. We feel let down by one to whom a lot of people looked up to.

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 05 Sep 2011 17:51

Jo Wah me g*ndu, woh woodbridge me g*ndu

Woodbridge man faces terror charges in production of violent jihadist video

A Woodbridge resident is facing terrorism-related charges after he allegedly produced a violent jihadist video with the help of the son of a leader of a Pakistani group that the United States has deemed a terrorist organization.

Jubair Ahmad, 24, a native of Pakistan, was arraigned Friday in federal court in Alexandria on charges that he provided material support to the militant group known as Lashkar-i-Taiba and made false statements during a terrorism investigation.

The U.S. District Court has not yet assigned Ahmad an attorney. His family could not be reached for comment.

Federal authorities allege that Ahmad created the video in September 2010 on behalf of Lashkar-i-Taiba, which advocates jihad against enemies and is thought to be behind the high-profile 2008 attack in Mumbai, India, that left 166 dead.

The five-minute video, which was posted on YouTube, features images of group leader Hafiz Mohammed Saeed and jihadi martyrs, along with armored trucks exploding after being hit by makeshift bombs, according to the charges.

The words “jihad” and “mujaheddin” can be heard throughout the clip; authorities believe that the video was intended to help recruit jihadists.

Authorities say Ahmad consulted with a man, who was later identified as Hafiz Mohammed Saeed’s son, Talha, on the concept for the video, including what photos, videos and music to use. Authorities did not disclose how those communications occurred.

In October 2010, Talha Saeed contacted Ahmad and told him to revise the video, giving him specific instructions, according to charges. Ahmad allegedly revised the video, adding a graphic montage of images of dead bodies, a detainee at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and a naked detainee in a defensive position before U.S. soldiers.

In a later interview with FBI agents, Ahmad allegedly falsely denied any involvement in producing the revised video.

As a teen in Pakistan, Ahmad received religious training from Lashkar-i-Taiba and attended one of the group’s basic camps, which included weapons training, according to charges.

Ahmad and other family members moved to the United States in 2007; they obtained a visa because Ahmad’s father was related to a U.S. citizen, according to court documents.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 05 Sep 2011 18:17

Chetak, I am happy that you did not intend 'money'. If I have misinterpreted your post, my apologies. As you rightly said, I also feel distressed when we detect such vicissitudes in people, especially those who know everything about the secret and open jihad and terrorism launched against us by TSP since 1947, who know about the real motivations that drive that country, who know what TSP wants India to end up as etc. This gentleman possibly knows more than anybody else. So, it distresses us when he proposes a line that does not agree with us here. We, in this forum, are also keen watchers of Pakistan who are no pushovers when it comes to understanding TSP. I am at a loss as to understand what makes such a change of heart. We have seen a few ex top services officers who do the same thing too.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 05 Sep 2011 18:28

SSridhar wrote:Chetak, I am happy that you did not intend 'money'. If I have misinterpreted your post, my apologies. As you rightly said, I also feel distressed when we detect such vicissitudes in people, especially those who know everything about the secret and open jihad and terrorism launched against us by TSP since 1947, who know about the real motivations that drive that country, who know what TSP wants India to end up as etc. This gentleman possibly knows more than anybody else. So, it distresses us when he proposes a line that does not agree with us here. We, in this forum, are also keen watchers of Pakistan who are no pushovers when it comes to understanding TSP. I am at a loss as to understand what makes such a change of heart. We have seen a few ex top services officers who do the same thing too.

SSridhar ji,

Please saar, no apology needed.

This gentleman knows intimately the details of track I, II and other tracks as well.
The points of view of many governments and interlocutors are also known to him

The venal leopard has not changed it's spots. Then gentleman also knows this as well as the fact that each succeeding paki army chief is more corrosive than the last one in anti India sentiment.

Something is not right. What gives??

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 05 Sep 2011 18:29

Floods kill 136 in Pakistan

Polish the begging bowl.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 05 Sep 2011 18:32

slap to H&D
Match-fixing beer advert 'disrespectful' to Pakistan - PCB

The Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) has called a New Zealand beer advert "unethical" and "disrespectful" for making fun of match-fixing scandals.

Kiwi all-rounder Daryl Tuffey fronted the beer ad campaign, which has now been withdrawn.

The PCB accused the Moa Brewing Company of being "insensitive to the feelings of the Pakistani nation".

Three Pakistani cricketers were banned for bowling deliberate no-balls in a Test match in England in 2010.

Continue reading the main story
It is rather unfortunate that the advertising company became insensitive to the feelings of the Pakistani nation while airing their ad, which is not only unethical but also disrespectful
Pakistan Cricket Board statement
Former captain Salman Butt was handed a 10-year ban, with half of it suspended, Mohammad Asif was banned for seven years, two suspended, and Mohammad Amir was given a five-year ban.

The advert features a signed statement from Tuffey which reads: "Pakistanis love cricket and they love making money.

"Sometimes they combine the two with a good old Pakistani match fix so that the Black Caps get to win a game."

The PCB statement said: "It is rather unfortunate that the advertising company became insensitive to the feelings of the Pakistani nation while airing their ad, which is not only unethical but also disrespectful.

"After the assurance from New Zealand Cricket, PCB does not intend to pursue the matter any further."

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 05 Sep 2011 18:33

SSridhar wrote:I am at a loss as to understand what makes such a change of heart. We have seen a few ex top services officers who do the same thing too.

Lack of options.
Lack of support from higher ups.
Establishment support to doves.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 05 Sep 2011 18:39

‘Serving’ Pakistan abroad: Officers overstay at foreign missions

ISLAMABAD: Despite the completion of their postings in Pakistani missions abroad, more than three dozen officials of the directorate of passport and immigration are yet to report back to their parent departments.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 05 Sep 2011 18:42

Whatever happens, India will have 180M people to its west. Plus population growth. It is within the range of reasonable opinions not to want to live next to a slum.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 05 Sep 2011 18:44

RajeshA wrote:
SSridhar wrote:I am at a loss as to understand what makes such a change of heart. We have seen a few ex top services officers who do the same thing too.

Lack of options.

Lack of support from higher ups.

Establishment support to doves.

[*] Lack of an endgame for preferred option?

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 05 Sep 2011 18:51

The ad!

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 05 Sep 2011 18:54

RajeshA wrote:
SSridhar wrote:I am at a loss as to understand what makes such a change of heart. We have seen a few ex top services officers who do the same thing too.

Lack of options.

Lack of support from higher ups.

Establishment support to doves.

There are many scallywags in this business.

Among the ex service types, many are motivated by the lure of a lifestyle, the need to remain relevant and some, simply the lure of silver (money). At least one is a flaming gay!!!

The pakis well know how to deal with each variety to their (paki) benefit.

Whereas, the pakis would have taken out (fatally) such retired military gentlemen on their own side without the least hesitation or even pretense. They have already done so in many cases. Naipaul's poor brother in law, for instance.

Luxtor · Post by **Luxtor** » 05 Sep 2011 19:00

shiv wrote:I am beginning to have a slightly more nuanced "take" on the handing over of PoK and construction projects in Pakistan to the Chinese. I will try and explain the basis of my feeling.

We know for a fact, and we have noted on here time and agian that Pakistan is not a "unified country" with a strong central government that does things in "the interests of Pakistan".

Many projects in Pakistan are initiated by a profit making motive by the owners of the land where the project is to take place, and because those same owners are also "Members of Parliament" or "Senators" - a private profit making "development" project on private land is advertised a s a "Pakistan national development" project.

One possibility that we must keep in mind (and I am not kidding) is that the sudden appearance of the Chinese in variosu areas may just be a symptom of a corrupt Pakistani elite inviting Chinese enterprises for private profit. The Pakistani eliet are hardly "patriotic" about Pakistan the nation. They are "patriotic" about their own condition and the "Pakistaniyat" that gives them their powers. Many projects in Pakistan may well turn out to be the "selling out" of small chunks of Pakistan to the Chinese by people who are basically profiteering traitors who can, if need be, seek refuge in the gulf countries or the west.

This view does not change the Chinese threat. It merely offers a non patriotic, greedy profiteering motive from a sinking Pakistan.

I agree with this take. After all, I believe as do many others probably (in reality) that Pukistan was created not necessarily as a nation for the sub continent's Muslims but due the personal greed of Jinnah who at the dawn of independence for some unknown, bizarre reason thought that he should be the first prime minister of the independent India. When he saw that was not going to happen he decided to demand a "homeland" for the Muslims and he as its head. So his thinking was if I can't be a big fish in a big pond then I want to break off into a small pond where I can be a big fish. Everything about pukistan from its creation to its 60 + years of shameful existence points to the personal greed and intolerance of its elite. The puki elite when they become an "ex" (as in ex PM, ex dictator, ex political party head, etc), they inevitably take refuge in the West where they readily allow it. In the future may be the puki ex'es will take refuge in China where they will be treated as heroes who sold off their country to Chicoms.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 05 Sep 2011 19:41

Luxtor wrote:Everything about pukistan from its creation to its 60 + years of shameful existence points to the personal greed and intolerance of its elite. The puki elite when they become an "ex" (as in ex PM, ex dictator, ex political party head, etc), they inevitably take refuge in the West where they readily allow it. In the future may be the puki ex'es will take refuge in China where they will be treated as heroes who sold off their country to Chicoms.

Luxtor, you are very right. However, not merely the elite, but other sections of the society also had vested interests in the process. The clergy for example thought they will have a purely Islamic state because that is what Jinnah promised to them. The section of bureaucrats, who opted out for Pakistan smelled rapid growth in career. The landed elites of the Punjab and the Sind, did not want to lose their lands in what they apprehended a definite land reform programme of the INC, the middle-class educated Muslims from the Yamuna-Ganga belt also saw easy opportunities in the land of Honey & Milk. So were the Pirs and Sajida Nashins who had vast treasures and lands who felt that only a Muslim state could preserve their traditional power. Many 'elite' Indian Muslim families tried to play it safe or have the best of both the worlds by dividing their families between the two nations

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 05 Sep 2011 20:29

[/quote]SSridhar ji,
Please saar, no apology needed.

This gentleman knows intimately the details of track I, II and other tracks as well.
The points of view of many governments and interlocutors are also known to him

The venal leopard has not changed it's spots. Then gentleman also knows this as well as the fact that each succeeding paki army chief is more corrosive than the last one in anti India sentiment.

Something is not right. What gives??[/quote]

B Raman is getting old...plus recovering/suffering from malignancy. Holding hawkish views is tough, especially with a health condition, much easier to become dovish, less stress on the body.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 06 Sep 2011 00:04

The pursuit of purification continues in the Pureland ...

Ahmedi shot dead in Faisalabad

LAHORE: An Ahmedi citizen, Naseem Ahmed, was assassinated by unidentified assailants in Faisalabad after terrorists distributed pamphlets in the city a few weeks ago urging citizens to kill Ahmedis. According to details, 55-year-old Naseem was sleeping in his house on Saturday when, at around 1:15am, four men entered his house, opened fire on him and escaped from the crime scene. A news report, published in Daily Times on June 14, had informed about plans of execution of terrorist activities against Ahmedis in the region. The report had further mentioned that the terrorists were collaborating with other wings and laying out a proper plan of Ahmedis’ target killings and had started distributing hate material like pamphlets and flyers in this regard. The terrorists had also released a list of prominent Ahmedi businessmen and other personalities living in Faisalabad and surrounding areas by mentioning their names and addresses, saying that the Ahmedi citizens of the country were involved in “conspiracies against Islam and Pakistan”.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 06 Sep 2011 00:20

RajeshA wrote:
SSridhar wrote:I am at a loss as to understand what makes such a change of heart. We have seen a few ex top services officers who do the same thing too.

Lack of options.

Lack of support from higher ups.

Establishment support to doves.

+ Access to media and lime light. Most, if not all, Civils types want to maintain their larger than life egos.

BajKhedawal · Post by **BajKhedawal** » 06 Sep 2011 00:26

Neela wrote:The ad!
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/adfrommoabeer.jpg/

Is it ethical? No! Is it Pakistani? Yes!

Also a awesome pictures of handsfree GUBO by the pig hearted what's-his-name the ball bitter.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 06 Sep 2011 01:19

What if the next article B. Raman writes is critical of Paks and our policy towards them?

It's amazing how people on BR feel quite confident and certain about accusing others who have done more for India than any of us is ever likely to do of taking bribes of one sort or another, of selling out themselves and the country to various buyers, etc. And then a few weeks later, another article, or a wikileak comes up which gives a contrary view, and there is remarkable silence among the same individuals.

And then we blame the DDM for not remembering what they wrote a few weeks earlier?

BR is read by a lot of people, and it would be decent of participants to think before they post (at least most of the time) - although both might be little more than a pious hope.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Sep 2011 01:56

Plastic Surgery On Pigs by Dr.Uncle
Pakistan captures key Al Qaeda commander

Reporting from Islamabad, Pakistan— With help from the U.S., Pakistan's main intelligence agency has nabbed a top Al Qaeda commander suspected of planning attacks on American oil pipelines, tankers and other economic targets. The arrest suggested that the deep tension that had derailed cooperation between the two countries may be easing.Younis al Mauritani, a senior Al Qaeda commander, was arrested in the southern city of Quetta along with two other senior Al Qaeda operatives, Abdul Ghaffar al Shami and Messara al Shami, Pakistan's military said Monday. Authorities would not say when the men were arrested or give further details about the operation to track them down, except to say it was carried out by Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency and members of the Frontier Corps paramilitary force.The U.S. provided information that led to the operation, said a senior Pakistani intelligence official, though he would not specify what that information was."All I know is that some technical assistance was provided by the Americans," the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to discuss such matters. "Leads were provided, which led to this operation, which was conducted independently by us."

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 06 Sep 2011 01:58

BajKhedawal wrote:
Neela wrote:The ad!
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/adfrommoabeer.jpg/
Is it ethical? No! Is it Pakistani? Yes!

Also a awesome pictures of handsfree GUBO by the pig hearted what's-his-name the ball bitter.

Daryl Tuffey is standing by what is being said about the Pakistanis. It is a shame that the dhimmis in NZ board farted first and got the ad taken off. Perhaps the Pawkis threatened to send a few non state cricketers along with the state team during the next tour

http://www.timesnow.tv/SPORTS/NZ-takes- ... 383125.cms

The PCB was apparently considering legal action, the Kiwis perhaps didn't know that the PCB doesn't even have enough money to buy lotas for the Toilets in their offices.

Hope Tuffey gets picked up by some IPL team

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Sep 2011 02:03

Awara hoon ,Ganwara hoon, Al Qaida ka Pyara hoon
Institute of Peace and Secular Studies (IPSS) is a humble, community youth organization in Lahore, Pakistan which aims to empower Pakistani youth and groom them to face up to today’s challenges. Whereas most of the youth in Pakistan is unable to get a decent education, IPSS intends to reach out to as many youngsters as possible and ready them to shape their own future. According to British Council’s ‘The Next Generation’ report, this percentage will continue to rise until 2045, after which the percentage of adults will overtake that of youth. Through its youth, then, Pakistan has an immense opportunity to avail. The question is whether the youth population will translate to a demographic dividend or disaster. It is a window of opportunity for Pakistan to reap social and economic benefits that depends on it’s young generation.
Below picture is the example of RAPE propoganda claiming normal human behaviour.