Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 2011

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by Anujan »

BijuShet wrote: It goes something like this: first get the government, including the prime minister, to acknowledge the energy sector’s financial crisis (caused by the government’s inability to pay the subsidies it promises) as the primary problem. Secondly, propose a solution, including clearing the entire backlog of inter-corporate circular debt in the energy sector to get the power companies and refineries to start producing again at full capacity.

Thirdly — and this is the crucial part — do so by getting an international donor to finance the solution who will demand that the long-term problem (unaffordable subsidies and poor government management) be solved up front.
The bolded part is the most important part. It is important because then the Pakistan government can blame the wealthy western Zionist-Bania-Kuffars to have forced Pakistan government to increase power tariffs despite the governments best intentions. Then people can burn IMF effigies, Zion Hamid can talk about Jewish conspiracies and abduls can blame the west.

Same modus-operandi as the Cash-for-Allowing-Drones program.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by shivajisisodia »

brihaspati wrote:
The whole problem of Pakistan is its mullahcracy
You are right. The whole problem of Pakistan is Islam as it is practised today. The literal Islam which has not yet undergone reformation like Christianity did, is what makes the people of Paki, genocidal maniacs. You are also right, that as human beings, they are just like us, but it is their conditioning that makes them so, and the conditioning is literal Islam. You also correctly point out that without the Mullahs there would be no Pakistan. However, there would still be unreformed Islam, which is only a little ways away from the worst form of Wahabiism.

Correct me if I am wrong, the only place that could moderate Islam anywhere in the world so far has been India, in the form of Sufiism. On the other hand, Sufiism could just have been a device used by Islamists as a half way house or a way station to full conversion, making it more pallatable for Hindus to convert, thus resulting in more conversion.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by Airavat »

A Danish couple was arrested near Osama bin Laden’s residential compound in Bilal Town, which sits virtually adjacent to the grounds belonging to the Pakistan Military Academy Kakul. District Police Officer Abbottabad said that the couple were detained to run a check on their documentation. He said the couple were released after the documentation was found to be authentic.

From the Express Tribune
Didn't the Pakistani government announce several months back that they would demolish this huge building, lest it become a shrine? Are they shamelessly waiting for some baksheesh to carry out the demolition, or is the puki army preserving this ISI safe house for further use?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by Prem »

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2011_pg3_4
The faith colonisers
They also realised that these saints were not only respected by the Muslim invaders but they could even intercede with the victor on their behalf. While this performance may have won them willing converts, it attracted the attention of another but sinister species — the mullahs and the qazis. These were a sort of moral brigade and ferocious foot soldiers of the Islamic world, far below the rare and limited class of known ulema (scholars). In the prevalent scheme of things, these struggling clerics had a limited role in the king’s court. They lacked power over the faithful in those highly personalised and royal Muslim sultanates and kingdoms. The islands of influence created by Sufis in the subcontinent provided them an opportunity to exploit the power vacuum and satiate their latent desire for political and social sway. Therefore, they piggybacked on the backs of invading Muslim armies and set up their little colonies pivoting around the space created by the Sufis. Not that the Sufis were ever in league with this new breed of colonisers — the faith colonisers. This happened mostly in territories that were retained by the invaders. This was the start of the conflict of interest between the Sufi and the mullah, albeit perpetrated by the repressive mullah, which has continued till this day with some horrible immediate consequences for the unarmed and unambitious .Most of these men with deep guttural voices and alien dress were an uncompromising lot who were harsh on even the smallest infringements, whether actual or perceived, in matters of faith, and unforgiving in slapping forbidding punishments. Every case was invariably made into a test case and every accused an example, which earned them an awfully unenviable fame for being pernicious. They generally came to be regarded as cold, spiteful and hard crusted men. Their peculiar alien dress and loud throaty discourses became their trademark and are to this day. Has anyone ever realised why do they dress like an Afghan, Iranian, Central Asian, Palestinian or Arab, even Caucasian? Why do they have to deliver sermons or talk in typically loud, gasping and lilting tones? Why dressing indigenously or talking politely, normally, is not acceptable to them? The reason for these theatrical preferences is clear. This class of men wanted to be heard to be seen and dressed outlandishly to inspire awe in their audience for being endowed from a far off unseen authority. They have always been class conscious and status-oriented. They also wanted to be feared as a class above the ordinary. Whereas the Sufis patronised poetry and music, the neurotic mullahs banned both and ridiculed sports and entertainment. That is why no seminary has a playground or any scope for even simple recreation. These delusive men smile under compulsion or when driven by sarcasm; otherwise it is tersely discouraged. By the time the Mughal rule stabilised in India, three classes had developed their dress code to perfection in order to be easily distinguished: royals, mullahs and the court musicians. What goes as men’s bridal designer dresses these days is a comic mix of the royal and court musicians’ attire of the Mughal era. Seldom did an Emperor like Aurangzeb side openly with the clergy, which resulted in the persecution of Prince Dara Shikoh. But the real boa constrictors arrived after Pakistan came into being. They were led by an innocuous looking but committed man like Maududi. Few knew that he had been deeply influenced by persons no less than Ibne Wahab of Saudi Arabia, Syed Qutub and Ahmad Bana while at Al-Azhar. These three driven men are the chief architects of the radicalised Islam that we see today. From the megalomaniac times of late General Zia onwards, they colonised Pakistani society with their obstinate, intolerant version of Islam and fiqh (jurisprudence). The difference this time is that these colonies of faith are like gulags, terribly exclusive, absolutely impervious to others’ point of view, severely regimented, iron gated and barbed wired all around. These evil enclosures of eccentric faith are like despised concentration camps where dissent and discourse is completely unacceptable. Their crazy camp followers have set up their own exclusive militant domains, selected their rival ideologies as targets and have busied themselves in their elimination. Peninsular Arabia’s Wahabists also dragged their historic rivals the Shiites, by then fired by Khomeiniite zest, into the fray and shifted their proxy war to Pakistan. This has poisoned our religious landscape most regrettably and destroyed our social balance almost irreparably.
Last edited by Prem on 07 Sep 2011 07:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by shiv »

Continuing with some thoughts..

Quietly and almost unnoticed - there may have been a shift in Indian policy towards Pakistan since the 26/11 period. It certainly appears to be a "further backing down" of an India that we have already (for long) complained on here as being not aggressive enough.

The new Indian policy, to repeat, is not only lack of overt aggression against Pakistan, but an effort to move away threatening military hardware and forces that "appear threatening" to Pakistanis. The fact that the Pakistani military complain that India "appears threatening" despite India's overt Aman ki Asses efforts is known from a series of articles by US "South Asia" experts who have repeatedly said that this is a constant Pakistani refrain.

It is my opinion that this new Indian policy has probably been put into place with US pressure on India. It is again my opinion that if India has buckled to US pressure it is because India did not have much choice to do anything different. India has already shown (to the entire world) a reluctance to declare war against Pakistan. The only thing left for India was some kind of "push" to move from a situation of "no war, no peace" to one of backing down and agreeing with Pakistani accusations (and US concurrence) that India appears too threatening and should actually appear less threatening to Pakistan.

I have no idea whether this new Indian posture is accompanied by a "promise" that the US will somehow pressurise its favorite whore the Pakistani army to go easy on the terror front.

If I believe my own theory as stated above - it gives me some insights as to "Indian strength and capability" vis a vis Pakistan. IMO
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by shiv »

Anujan wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:^^^ India's success (relatively speaking) with Bangladesh may have prompted a rethink with regards to Pakistan.
We should explore all possibilities. Consider the following statements:

1. If Pakistan leaves behind all Anti-India activities and is willing to live with us in peace, not friends, but in peace -- Like Sri Lanka, India should encourage that possibility

2. If India assesses that Pakistan will never live in peace with India, and will radicalize its society in an attempt to hurt India, India should smile and shake hands in public, make concessions which have no impact on our security, while sharpening our knives secretly.

3. If India assesses that Pakistan will be a bigger threat as a province of China than as a terrorist cess-pit, India should do WKK-Chai-Biskoot to avoid that possibility.

4. Without thinking about the eventualities (1), (2), (3) above, India should instigate a civil war inside Pakistan of More pure against less pure, by strengthening the less pure.

5. Without thinking about the eventualities (1), (2), (3) above, India should make conciliatory gestures towards Pakistan so that it is treated as an international headache and ignored by the international community.

What do they have in common?
Good thinking.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by Prem »

Jerra gurr dittya marre taa oonnu jehar den de ki lorr hai ?
If sugar kills then why talk about poison?

At this point , our prio-reeti remains some what different than getting in war with filth. No wise person get into tug of war with mountain of filth unless it become absolutely necessary. Since the filth of neighborhood is now stinking the whole world, let its cleaning become international project in which we can participate 800%. Indians getting use to the stench of Poaq ,now lets see how long can other hold their breath while dealing with Poaqroach.When Poaq Poaching start, Indians will get to hunt the most motta Taazza ones.
Last edited by Prem on 07 Sep 2011 08:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by pgbhat »

Daura-a-Amma
:mrgreen: Don't know if it is a typo or their level of understanding.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by ramana »

Chickens coming home to roost?

LeT was a Brown Shirt organization to the TSPA. It was setup under US care and guidance in the mid 80s. All that para military training was to use them against India.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by shiv »

brihaspati wrote: As you, I speak from experience - real, tangible, intimate social experience. It is not that the aam Muslim is an inhuman, or subhuman species. They are as human as us, subject to the same conditioning, blindnesses, perceptual pitfalls. Their social conditioing makes them so. This conditioning takes place onlee because of the Islamic institutional power of the mullahcracy, and early brainwashing training from childhood in the same doctrine. It is the Islamic institution and the mullahcracy who derive power and sustenance from it - who stand between us and the aam Paki.
You know brihaspati - this is perfectly correct. My own personal experiences indicate an absolutely "normal" behavior among Muslims as is to be expected on a one to one level.

I believe that what affects society is the unique hierarchical and "joint" structure of Muslim society with family obligations and "joint" decision making. When it comes to joint decision making, the power to decide is relegated to men more than women, and elders more than younger people and finally decisions are passed through an "islamic filter". The Islamic filter may be a simple one - like deciding not to eat meat if it is not known to be halal. The final decision made by the elder male or mullah tends to be binding on everyone else. Maintaining this kind of social structure is based on a very strong sense of "us" and "them" inculcated from childhood to the extent that beraking the rule causes great discomfort and cognitive dissonance resulting from the awareness/memory of the severe punishment that is meted out to any Muslim who breaks the "bond" of the social structure.

I have no problem with this sort of social structure. Lots of clans and joint families have a similar structure. What I object to is the use of violence. Basically I don't care what the mullah says or does as long as there is no ultimate translation of any disagreement into violence.

One "Islamic grievance" (used in the creation of Pakistan) is the inability to use violence/intimidation against perceived unbelievers because the latter are in a majority and it is necessary to apply Islam mandated techniques of survival or taqiya or whatever. But this has to be a necessary imposition on any society that chooses to impose violence on anyone else.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by SSridhar »

More than anything else, I would say that it is the 'closed mind' nature that is the root cause. Right from a very early age, adherents are advised, cajoled and threatened into submission against any questioning. All else follow naturally. The more a mind is closed, the more the piety.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by ramana »

At this wedding I was, as soon as the mullah started reading from Koran, all the fahsionistas stared covering their heads. And one older lady was slow to do so and her son, a pimply faced youth of about 13, ordered her to cover her head!

Truly women even mothers are lowest in pecking order.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by shiv »

SSridhar wrote:More than anything else, I would say that it is the 'closed mind' nature that is the root cause. Right from a very early age, adherents are advised, cajoled and threatened into submission against any questioning. All else follow naturally. The more a mind is closed, the more the piety.
This is a perfect assessment. And anyone who controls/manages a society with such closed minds realises very soon that external influences (the lure of sex/alcohol), other freedoms etc rapidly cause internal dissent, revolt and a los of members. That is why very strict rules have to be in place for "policing" such a society with punishment for those who stray. Al this was figured out centuries ago and encoded into the memes and exist as "normal, day to day rules" in islamic societies.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by chetak »

shiv wrote:Continuing with some thoughts..

Quietly and almost unnoticed - there may have been a shift in Indian policy towards Pakistan since the 26/11 period. It certainly appears to be a "further backing down" of an India that we have already (for long) complained on here as being not aggressive enough.

The new Indian policy, to repeat, is not only lack of overt aggression against Pakistan, but an effort to move away threatening military hardware and forces that "appear threatening" to Pakistanis. The fact that the Pakistani military complain that India "appears threatening" despite India's overt Aman ki Asses efforts is known from a series of articles by US "South Asia" experts who have repeatedly said that this is a constant Pakistani refrain.

It is my opinion that this new Indian policy has probably been put into place with US pressure on India. It is again my opinion that if India has buckled to US pressure it is because India did not have much choice to do anything different. India has already shown (to the entire world) a reluctance to declare war against Pakistan. The only thing left for India was some kind of "push" to move from a situation of "no war, no peace" to one of backing down and agreeing with Pakistani accusations (and US concurrence) that India appears too threatening and should actually appear less threatening to Pakistan.

I have no idea whether this new Indian posture is accompanied by a "promise" that the US will somehow pressurise its favorite whore the Pakistani army to go easy on the terror front.


If I believe my own theory as stated above - it gives me some insights as to "Indian strength and capability" vis a vis Pakistan. IMO

The paki army has for some time now "helplessly" started to whine publicly about the threat that India poses to pak despite US and EU "best efforts" to convince them otherwise.

The amiekhans have tried to convince them but to no avail so they now placate the same venal paki army and have also roped in India through MMS to jointly convince the pakis that India is not a threat as percieved by them

The pakis are on to a good thing here and have now quickly nuanced this "fear" into a policy of sorts and are playing it for all it is worth. As can be seen this is a quick, intelligently evolving and rapidly adaptive policy that is paying rich dividends for them.

Under US and EU pressure this has led to India making all sorts of irrational concessions and compromises that go against our core interests. By using this irrational fear the pakis have managed to make India take logic out of the equation for now as it suits them best. The chipandas have reinforced this further, simply by sheer presense in POK and the Gujarat border.

This paki activity has peaked after the Bombay attack .The paki policy makers are nimble footed and change gears on the fly and we seem to have fallen into the trap neatly set for us.

They surely have a dedicated emergency response team sort of policy making group definitely under the paki army control that provides advice to all bodies interacting with India, Afghanistan and the US. They can't do much with the US presently as they have blotted their copy book rather badly, osama was a body blow that they may never recover from.

Nobels and petty individual egos seem to be the all pervading concerns on the Indian side. Our policy making and diplomatic responses lack coherence, continuity and unity of purpose. The pakis, alas, have been very focused in these aspects for the longest time now. They use a snipers rifle versus our muzzle loaders and blunderbuss.

This very Indian obsession of keeping the Indian Armed Forces out of all security and strategic discussions at every level has left us very vulnerable internationally.

The pakis have now increasingly started to whine publicly about the Indian Army "interfering" in Siachin and this POV has been accepted by our chattering classes on Indian TV shows. They are using our own DDM resources to rape us.

I have more than a sneaking suspicion that the chipandas are directly involved in the Hindu newspaper succession war with N Ram playing his role to perfection.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by Anujan »

DIG of the FC and 15 others given their 72 in Quetta.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/246965/twin ... ta-2-dead/

Also 24,0000 containers carrying sophisticated arms for NATO goes "missing" in Karachi port. :shock:

http://thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail ... t=9/6/2011
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by RajeshA »

Anujan wrote:Also 24,0000 containers carrying sophisticated arms for NATO goes "missing" in Karachi port. :shock:

http://thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail ... t=9/6/2011
Isn't it great to read such news. Pakis openly steal but call it stuff gone missing and nobody knows where! This dripping innocence, this relished incompetence, this "Allah wished it so", this "you're not paying enough for a 24/7 watch! It's your own fault"!

And every time Pakistanis get some reward for their theft, like more money to bolster security, wagerah, wagerah!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by chetak »

RajeshA wrote:
Anujan wrote:Also 24,0000 containers carrying sophisticated arms for NATO goes "missing" in Karachi port. :shock:

http://thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail ... t=9/6/2011
Isn't it great to read such news. Pakis openly steal but call it stuff gone missing and nobody knows where! This dripping innocence, this relished incompetence, this "Allah wished it so", this "you're not paying enough for a 24/7 watch! It's your own fault"!

And every time Pakistanis get some reward for their theft, like more money to bolster security, wagerah, wagerah!

They have learned well from their chinese masters. :lol:

Remember the chinese plunder of russian arms and supplies during the korean war and after??
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by shiv »

chetak wrote:
Nobels and petty individual egos
..
chipandas are directly involved in the Hindu newspaper succession war with N Ram playing his role to perfection.
I have no major disagreement with your post except that the above "explanations" reek too much of "high hopes" about India. The truth may be far less easy to swallow than these simple explanations

What I mean to say is that using your explanations, I could say " IF ONLY Indians were not worried about Nobels, and IF ONLY Indians did not have petty egos, and IF ONLY commie supporter N Ram's succession were not manipulated, the story for India might be quite different."

In fact the story for India may be much much worse. It may be that there is no real issue of Nobel or ego of Chinese control. It may be that we are actually quite weak and do not hold all the cards that we like to imagine on BRF that we hold. India may be compromised to a far grater degree and that the explanations you have given are just comforting thoughts about trivial issues correctable by a mere change to a non egotistic person who does not desire a Nobel. The story could be far more pessimistic than that. Simply blaming existing fools for deep flaws is only a way of comforting ourselves temporarily.

Of course there are some who may favor some kind of great Chankian theory. Either way I do not claim to have the explanation, profound weakness, ego/Nobel or Chankianness.
Last edited by shiv on 07 Sep 2011 10:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by SSridhar »

RajeshA wrote: Pakis openly steal but call it stuff gone missing and nobody knows where!

A Muslim is allowed to lie in a good cause.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by Anujan »

RajeshA wrote: Isn't it great to read such news. Pakis openly steal but call it stuff gone missing and nobody knows where! This dripping innocence, this relished incompetence, this "Allah wished it so", this "you're not paying enough for a 24/7 watch! It's your own fault"!

And every time Pakistanis get some reward for their theft, like more money to bolster security, wagerah, wagerah!
This quote is the gem:
record of 19,000 dispatched containers to Afghanistan through Chaman and Torkham borders under non-commercial category for ISAF from January 2007 to October was not found {They werent stolen, they were just misplaced and "not found" :mrgreen: } so another pilferage to national exchequer was also observed. {These were in addition to the 24,000 that went missing in the port :shock: }
So the Pakis are complaining about the loss of money (as fees for transit) to national exchequer, that were lost because no container was delivered to the ISAF!! :roll:

Maybe the US should compensate Pakis for the money that Pakis lost because US did not pay fees for the containers that the Pakis stole and did not deliver 8) :mrgreen:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by RajeshA »

shiv wrote:Clearly the earlier view was that armed conflict and an attack on Pakistan was not going to be entertained by India. The new view seems to be that even a "threatening posture" should be removed. That means that not only does India promise not to attack Pakistan, but India should remove all the military assets that Pakistan fears - assets that make the Pakistani army nervous. That is what Mani Shankar Aiyer and Bharat Karnad have stated plainly. And Bharat Karnad accused the government of not doing this and continuing to appear threatening to Pakistan. In fact so did MSA on TV.

This means that there is a general acceptance by India of the Pakistani accusation that they fear India and that India's assurances of lack of threat against Pakistan lack credibility in the face of massive Indian military assets facing Pakistan are being accepted by India. Pakistan has for long stated this and this Pakistani viewpoint/fear appears in a lot of American analyses of Pakistan.

So what is India going to do about infiltration, terrorism, fake currency, criminals in Pakistan etc? There is no information on answers to these questions from either Mani Shankar Aiyer or Bharat Karnad. In fact it is the government of India that is being accused by MSA/BK of not "going far enough" in appearing less threatening to Pakistan. The GoI is doing al the talking, but, according to Bk and MSA and Pakistan (and the US) continuing to "appear threatening" to Pakistan.

One possible meaning of this is that Pakistan is bullshitting as usual. But the fact that people are saying this so seriously could mean that the "Indian threat" is being used by the Pakistan army to stay in control and only a real and demonstrable removal of the Indian threat can cause the Pakistan army's stance to be questioned and its bluff called. This is my guesswork. Please do not ask me o answer questions based on my guesswork - you are all welcome to do your own guesswork.

What anyone proposes to do if the Pakistan army launches one more attack is not being stated, or maybe there is information that the Paki army is not going to attack with a huge part of its assets in the west. i don't know. MMS is known to have begged the US to control the Paki army and maybe they have promised something. i don't know. How far US promises will work is something that i would worry about.

No answers to many questions - but there appears to be a clear emphasis on going easy on Pakistan. How this will pan out when Pakistanis launch their next strike remains to be seen. They were not blamed for the last attack.
My almost 2 year old daughter is lately very fond of multi-vitamin gummy bears. She wants them, so she starts crying. One makes a deal with her - "one gummy bear, only one, then no more! Okay?" "Ahum, Ja", so one gives her one, happy that she has quieted down and is in fact satisfied with just one. One sees it as a personal victory, that one could solve the problem. After an hour or so, she starts again with the charade! And one agrees to give her one more. She is actually not supposed to be getting more than one per day! But more often than not we are forced to give in. In the end, she gets to eat 2 or 3 per day.

Once we start giving to Pakistan, we will always keep on giving. Instead of getting one big victory, Pakistan has learnt the benefit of salami slicing. And the little small victories are even more fulfilling. Because they get to enjoy victory everyday. Everyday they can show their genius in pushing back the resolve of India to give no more concessions. Everyday India forgets all that we have given them, and starts anew to think, okay, we will be able to somehow survive giving in to their one small wish. And on and on it goes.

And what do they trade with us? They offer their 'trust', the most glorious of gifts! After a couple of days we find out that the couple of flowers we got as trust have started wilting and are already stinking, and instead we gave them our gold-watch.

Everyday they ask us to sit just one more minute in the very hot water, and we comply. The state sells the deal to the public with Hina Rabbani Khar's handbags and sunglasses. When somebody complains, we are told the hot water is from the Hot Springs of Iceland, and we should just relax and enjoy the fun.
Last edited by RajeshA on 07 Sep 2011 10:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by parsuram »

Shiv Ji:

Good to see you raising the same points, pointing to the same realities concerning the paki state - so called. Well, after all these years, I have the same raggid & beaten to death answer to all of paki's pakiness. Yes they delude over their green flag on Red Fort ramparts, yes they intend to die trying, yes, they consider it their religious duty to do all that they are doing and intend to do. So. War is no answer. what did Kargil do to dissuade the paki. no thing. not one thing.

What India needs is a massive level of covert ops within and among the pakis. from the mosques to the farms, villages, towns and cities. Covert operatives dedicated to kill pakiness in their respective little zones of the pakis. Send them thru afghanistan, iran, off shore, wherever except across the India-paki border. Operatives should join in every time sectarian terror strikes the pakis. prolong every incident. Cause new ones if a lull threatens. But escalate tearing apart the fabric of this miserable collection of sewer scum suckers called the paki state. Attack their miserable infrastructure. bridges, trains, dams power stations and on and on and on. just a constant effort without let up. Send in more operatives, rotate others out after an active tour, but keep up the pressure until the entire paki enterprise self destructs, while retaining full deniability. Call me an optimist, but I do believe the entire show will be over in 5-6 years of full press assault from within. There is not a great lot holding the place together in the first place. And for God's sake, stop encouraging their literati and pseudo intellectuals, chai-biskut types. they need to feel the pain of pakiness at home, not export it abroad for profit.

Well, there. I said it again. But I'm not holding any breath.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by Agnimitra »

brihaspati wrote:if you notice, the "obverse" is not self-contradictory. They hate the Paki society - and they dont want any truck with that society's religion/culture etc. No inconsistency like WKK+"No Entry" position.
I think they are self-contradictory, but in a different way. They deride the other's culture, but reject any means of assimilation via their own cultural processes. They want to overwhelm and defeat the other, but can't think of means more subtle than the bullet. IMHO this is self-contradictory in the context of our own culture.
SSridhar wrote:More than anything else, I would say that it is the 'closed mind' nature that is the root cause. Right from a very early age, adherents are advised, cajoled and threatened into submission against any questioning. All else follow naturally. The more a mind is closed, the more the piety.
Spot on about brainwashing from an early age. Recently I met an Indian Hyderabadi expat here whose parents had migrated when he was still a kid. He is married now and with two children of his own. As part of his spiritual quest, he came into contact with a Hindu tradition and wants to practice it. It was fascinating to hear his story. He has to lie to his wife and family and drives an hour and a half to hang out at a temple when he can find the right excuse. He hides Radha-Krishna icons at home and offers his food to them secretly before he eats. Still, his wife found out because he became vegetarian, and through other clues. She constantly threatens him, complains to the extended family, and has poisoned the minds of his little children against their own father. He told me he doesn't know what to say when his daughter asks him tearfully, "Daddy, why are you becoming Hindu?" (like he's going crazy or something). I could partly see that his own sudden religious choice a couple years ago was partly due to a psychological inversion from his own childhood conditioning, and I helped him become aware of it.

However, more than 'closed mind' structures, it is a clear tendency to use physical violence leaving no social escape route. This is in addition to psychological fears of hellfire and practical fears of social bahishkaar. Legally, a disobedient defector (murtad) is fair game for the pious. To some extent Sufism provided an escape space, where suffocating Moslems could get a breath of fresh air. But without active and creative engagement in this crucial space from the 'Other', it becomes merely a tactical asset for the mullahcracy.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by Rudradev »

Shiv,

I have a guess as to what we all may have missed. Actually the fragments of the answer are all there in various threads of this forum; the problem is our insistence on opening a new thread for every seemingly tangential discussion, rather than attempting to connect the dots. Data are collected, good analysis is performed on each of the fragments in isolation... but threads being what they are, everything of value is soon tangled up in an impervious undergrowth of whines.

Briefly: the state of Pakistan, or at least those groups with the capacity to exercise any sort of central authority there, have lost confidence in their ability to preserve the identity and viability of Pakistan. Allah, Army and America were the pillars of the state, the guarantors of its survival through the previous century. Today Allah and Army are fighting each other in a purer-on-pure conflict, and America is repeatedly sticking bamboos in the upturned GUBO orifice of the Pakistani state. The present and potential ruling elite, the empowered classes, are in a state of panic, reaching out desperately to all sorts of potential benefactors to guarantee the continuance of their empowered status. These include:

A) Maha-Islampasand Pakis, including many within ISI and TSPA, who are still holding out in the hope that a pan-Ummah caliphate ("Khozestan?") can be established and subsume present-day Pakistan. However, this group is grappling with twin calamities that have publicly exposed and undermined the fantastic and unsustainable nature of their goals; firstly, the exhaustion of fighting a ten-year war against drones, airstrikes, ANA artillery and US special forces in the Northwest, and secondly, the crisis of credibility that has resulted from the decapitation strike against Bin Laden. Additionally, the increasing transformation of the Taliban into a Pashtun nationalist movement has undercut the legitimacy of the Maha-Islampasand Pakis' argument that being Purest of All is the solution to saving Pakistan.

B ) Chinipakis: the remaining portion of TSPA and ISI, plus many elements of the RAPE "political" class (such as Zardari) who are relying on the Chinese to save the day. They are the ones doing their damndest to mortgage the whole Pakistani state as the newest province of China. These, from the Indian point of view, may be the most dangerous... for reasons I will go into later. They are playing for a coup... a two-front war prosecuted by China and Pakistan against India, that will at once humiliate India, make America less relevant, and seize Kashmir in a move that will confer political legitimacy on the leadership claims of the Chinipaki group.

C) A very small number of Paki elite and TSPA who are still pro-America, and cling to the hope that America will not leave the used condom shredded in the garbage when it pulls out.

D) An even smaller number of Paki elite who are, not pro-India, but at some level hope that India can sort things out and save Pakistan's skin (since the alternatives are all worse.) These are your Chaighar type Paki liberals, who still hate India and Hindus, who still justify the creation of Pakistan, but all said and done feel more affinity for India than for China, Ummah or America.

E) A substantial number of Pakis who do NOT belong to the traditional echelons of power, i.e.TSPA/ISI Top-Brass or RAPE; and who still hold out the hope that Pakistan as they once knew it can survive all this. Of all the categories this is the ONLY social class which actually has a vested interest in the survival and success of Pakistan as an *independent* nation state when all is said and done. They consist of a petit-bourgeoise (not-exactly-middle) class, ranging from shopkeepers to professionals and bureaucrats to smaller landowners who are not quite big enough to be RAPE or "political class" in the Zardari/Sharif mould.

What India is trying to accomplish is not "strategy", at least not a Pakistan strategy that is viable in the long term. What India is trying to do is to make the best of a bad situation and strengthen Section D by drawing Pakis of Section E to it. We are playing to gain time, and avoid a two-front war with Pakistan+China; not to destroy Pakistan or redeem Pakistan or reclaim POK or any of those grand designs talked about on BRF. We are playing for time. That is all.

Section A is hopeless, and gives us entertainment value (IED mubaraks, Dronacharya strikes) at best while conducting terrorist attacks against Indian targets at worst.

Section B is very, very dangerous and their plans must be thwarted at ALL costs.

Section C is small enough to ignore entirely as a power bloc, but they may serve some limited purpose in advancing those few aspects of the Indian and American agendas that overlap.

However, there is still some hope for Section E (along with Section D) to create the sort of temporary respite that might postpone the inevitable collapse of Pakistan for a few decades, while neither engendering an overwhelmingly dangerous situation on our borders nor swamping us with a massive humanitarian disaster just as we are beginning to make economic progress.

Section E, it must be noted, does have considerable presence in the TSPA... the sons of petit-bourgeoise Pakistanis who joined the armed forces, and who have lost confidence in the RAPE-origin jernails to run the country after seeing the disaster perpetrated over the last ten years. Some of these Section E Pakis may even be as high up as Brigadier and Major General. These guys, as well as the Section C (pro-US) TSPA brass, are the intended audience of our dovishness that everyone from MMS to B Raman to Bharat Karnad have been prescribing ("non-threatening posture" et al.) Or at least, that's my guess.

India is hoping that these Section E TSPA officers will become a pro-Indian (or at least, "not-anti-Indian") constituency, and forestall the designs of either Section A Maha-Islampasand elements of TSPA, or Section B Chini-pasand elements of TSPA.

Make no mistake, the Section D/E Pakis do not love India, they do not necessarily favour forgive-and-forget with India, they do not necessarily see the Indian position on Kashmir as justified; but they DO see that India/Kashmir is far from the greatest problem that Pakistan faces right now, and they will take India's help in strengthening their position to ward off those other, bigger problems. For now. Or so India hopes.

So. Why do I say Section B are the MOST dangerous Pakis?

Because it may be that China really wants a war. Against India, with Pakistan as its ally.

China has been acting for the last several years, more aggressively than ever towards all its neighbours. Not ONE conciliatory move is made, but panga is taken with Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, the Philippines AND India at every opportunity. Why?

Because China needs a war. Or at least, one very powerful faction in the Chinese govt, including the PLA, is convinced that China needs a war.

Why does this faction think China needs a war?

It's like this. Throughout the '90s, the Chinese accumulated what they thought was going to be their greatest source and permanent guarantee of wealth; forex reserves of Western currencies, and more importantly, debt owed by Western governments. Mainly the US government.

That component... debt holdings, in the form of US treasury bonds and such, grew enormously through the '00s, as the US borrowed money to finance its wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Meanwhile, Chinese export markets in the US also grew enormously in the '00s... until things reached a point where Chinese industries relied on US consumer markets to absorb a very large portion of their output.

When the '08 financial crisis hit the Western world, especially the US, China's b@lls went into their mouth. It was a double-threat for China. On the one hand, all the US debt they held could become devalued in case of a depression. On the other hand, if US consumers stopped buying things, Chinese industries (which relied on US markets to absorb their output) would suffer. The resulting impact felt at home, by the Chinese economy, could have devastating consequences for a totalitarian regime.

So what option does a country have when so much of its wealth is in the form of debt? It must monetize the debt. It must turn the debt into something real, as soon as possible, before that wealth (in the form of treasury bonds) becomes more and more devalued as a result of its debtor's financial troubles.

How can China monetize the debt it holds? Here are some ways.

1) It can demand that the US pay up. But the US doesn't have money. If the US prints money, then China's own holdings become further devalued (as it happened with QE2, which further aggravated the situation.) Same for other Western countries, such as EU nations, which are also reeling financially.

2) It can print money and inject it into its own economy to increase domestic consumption. But this will inevitably lead to inflation, and cause civil unrest. Very bad idea, beyond narrow limits. Keeping tight control over money supply is much healthier from a totalitarian regime's point of view.

3) It can invest money into tinpot countries and gain goodwill. To some extent China has been doing this. But sooner or later, some returns have to be there no? So far, what returns have been generated by China's magnanimous projects in Sudan, Zimbabwe etc.?

4) It can start a war. It can arm up, invest wholesale in defense R&D, in procurement of foreign weapons systems and manufacture of its own weapons systems. And it can use these weapons systems in the pursuit of other kinds of power... geostrategic power. An additional benefit to this method of monetizing its debt is that it does not lead to civil unrest (at least as long as China can claim victory) but rather, to an upsurge in jingoistic nationalism that strengthens the position of an authoritarian government.

There you have it. Starting a war is likely considered a good option, given the prevailing economic situation, by a powerful faction within the ruling establishment of China. The US and West do not care if China starts a war with India; it will damage two of their biggest competitors. And Pakistanis of Section B, above, very much want this to happen and want to participate on the Chinese side.

The ONLY thing that would make the Chinese hesitate in starting a war with India would be India's possession of a credible nuclear deterrent. And what has Bharat Karnad told us, between the lines, about that?

In summary, I am guessing that the GOI has understood all this. It understands that the danger of a two-front aggression by China and Pakistan is not just real but imminent. It has calculated that we cannot win, and that we cannot count on external help to win. It may have calculated (ref: Karnad) that we do not even have a credible nuclear deterrent to prevent this from happening.

So in a sense, just as we are the only hope for Pakis of Sections D and E... Pakis of Sections D and E are our only hope to avert disaster. That's why we're seeing the policies we're seeing, IMHO.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by Sanku »

Frankly, the only solution that Pakistan needs is that given to a rabid dog.

In every way.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by JE Menon »

A series of excellent posts by several members. To complement a bit to what all have said, and what Carl has referred to as the "active and creative engagement in this crucial space", I would suggest that the easiest mode of entry into this space is through a subtle appeal to reason, and not through an alternative faith offering or a visible challenge to existing belief. It is the intelligent mind there that needs to be unburdened of the millstone of absolutism and exclusivism. The rest will follow stumbling into the light of reason.

Added later: ultimately Sanku is right. Only the method might vary.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by Philip »

Sank-U! Ain't that what the pesky rats are doing to themselves what?!

Pak's latest diplomatique faux pas!

Denmark's Pakistan ambassador arrested travelling to Osama bin Laden complex
A diplomatic row has flared after the Danish ambassador to Pakistan and his wife were arrested and held while travelling to Osama bin Laden's former hideout.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... mplex.html
By Ben Farmer, Kabul and Ashfaq Yusufzai in Abbottabad

Uffe Wolffhechel and his wife were detained for two hours for visiting the area without authorisation and then sent back to Islamabad, officials said.

Karim Khan, district police officer for Abbottabad, told the Daily Telegraph the couple had not obtained prior permission to visit the town.

Their detention provoked a diplomatic protest from the Danish foreign ministry which insisted Mr Wolffhechel had the correct paperwork to make the trip.

The area around bin Laden's compound in the Bilal Town district of Abbottabad has been tightly guarded since the al Qaeda chief was shot dead in an American special forces raid in May.

Security sources said the Danish envoy had been travelling in his official car and followed by intelligence agents after visiting the nearby Thandyani resort.

Related Links
You might like:9/11 anniversary: US and Pakistan 'frozen' in mistrust, military chiefs warn

He and his wife were stopped as they reached Bilal Town where bin Laden is believed to have spent years hidden in a high-walled compound. Pakistani television reports said they were outside the house when stopped.

The couple were taken to Nawan Sher police station and questioned before being sent back to the capital.

The Danish foreign ministry complained about what it called a misunderstanding. A spokesman for the ministry said the ambassador had been on an information gathering visit for the embassy, but declined to give further details.

The killing of bin Laden by a helicopter-borne team of American Navy SEALs deep inside Pakistan's territory remains a sensitive issue in Islamabad and is the subject of several investigations.
Superb. The Pakis "fail" to arrest their honoured guest the "Sheikh" and his harem whorsided in Abbotabad for years,but are swift to arrest the Danish ambassador and his wife!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by JE Menon »

Sure, they know where everyone is except Osama and Ayman and Mullah Omar
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by parsuram »

Rudra: An excellent assessment, without fault. But the present response, though with little risk, has no other merit. First,there is time. In my opinion, as long as the Taiwan situation remains unresolved, China will not open hostilities. That is a fairly"as long as" time frame. Time enough to undermine the paki state down to chaos. Your reading of paki soc sections may be close to real, so add to it the financial incentive for the lower class non hostiles to provide some cover to Idian covert ops witin paki stan. Things become easier. As for the johnny chan come lately chinks dreaming of world power status, totally contrary to their historic nature & behavior, Indians have a few cards to play as well. Biggest being Tibet. Heck, Tibeten government in exile operates out of India. A very large able bodied Tibetan pop is at IA's disposal. Make hay with it. India is not without options.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by skumar »

parsuram wrote: What India needs is a massive level of covert ops within and among the pakis. from the mosques to the farms, villages, towns and cities. Covert operatives dedicated to kill pakiness in their respective little zones of the pakis. Send them thru afghanistan, iran, off shore, wherever except across the India-paki border. Operatives should join in every time sectarian terror strikes the pakis. prolong every incident. Cause new ones if a lull threatens. But escalate tearing apart the fabric of this miserable collection of sewer scum suckers called the paki state. Attack their miserable infrastructure. bridges, trains, dams power stations and on and on and on. just a constant effort without let up. Send in more operatives, rotate others out after an active tour, but keep up the pressure until the entire paki enterprise self destructs, while retaining full deniability. Call me an optimist, but I do believe the entire show will be over in 5-6 years of full press assault from within. There is not a great lot holding the place together in the first place. And for God's sake, stop encouraging their literati and pseudo intellectuals, chai-biskut types. they need to feel the pain of pakiness at home, not export it abroad for profit.
This is like expecting our cavemen ancestors to launch rockets to the moon. Before the rockets can be launched, a set of enabling technologies needed to be developed.

Before we can send covert operatives to Pakistan to create mayhem, there are a series of enabling events / mindset changes required to occur. If they occur, we might possibly not require to be criminals ourselves.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by shravan »

Army official killed by firing from Indian border

AATH MAQAM - At least one Pakistani army official was killed when Indian army opened indiscriminate firing at a Pakistani check post in control line Machal sector here on Tuesday evening.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by RajeshA »

Rudradev ji,

My respect for you and your analysis is well justified!

I think, there is a little proxy war going on in Pakistan - between Saudi Arabia and Iran. TSPA is turning more and more radical Wahhabandi. So how do the Shi'as in Pakistan react, or for that matter even Sindhis who are somewhat Sufisticated. They need to retain some hold over TSPA!

So the question becomes how the 'Sufi' Sindhis and the Shi'a can exert their influence over the TSPA. What can they offer to TSPA? Before I come to that, a diversion.

Iran and China's Interests Converge
And here come the geopolitics of the region! There are two countries that absolutely want to keep American out of Central Asia - the Chinese and the Iranians. However Pakistan is allowing America a route into Afghanistan. So Pakistan needs to brought abroad. There is the Northern Distribution Route as well, but I will get to that later.

American fight is however with the Al Qaeda, with Taliban, who are hard-line Sunnis. Basically the Shi'a and the Sufis would not really mind if the Taliban get a thrashing, however the pretext of Global War on Terror allows America to sit tight in Afghanistan, thereby posing a threat to both the underbelly of China in East Turkestan (Xinjiang) and to Iranian Baluchistan. East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM) lives in the region, and then there is the threat of Jundallah in Iranian Southeast. So both Iran and China have reason to be suspicious.

Secondly it is the question of minerals of Central Asia. Why shouldn't China go for an iron grip over the minerals of Central Asia? China would love to block out India and USA from the region. Russia is just another big bear on which the lizard can sit and suck more minerals out, so Russia doesn't really bother the Chinese. Iran too had once a big influence over this region and this region formed part of its empire. So Iran as a power with potential is hoping to cash in on the mineral wealth of the region. Iran may not have the industry, but it would want control in order to sell those minerals as well. Just see the Iranians also bidding for mining iron ore in Afghanistan.

Thirdly China wants to develop its West as much as it can and get more Hans to migrate to the Wild West. That can be possible only if industry comes up in the region, with raw materials coming from Central Asia, and trade routes becoming possible through Karakoram. There too only Pakistan can help. But to develop the region, China would want to blunt the increasing threat from Wahhabization of Uyghurs, who form the support base for ETIM. Now it is really difficult to get Muslims to leave Islam. So here too China would be hoping that the Mullahs from Iran can proselytize the Uyghurs a bit and turn them into Shi'ites. We see how the Chinese played hosts to Zardari, a Shi'a, in Urumqi the other day, who celebrated Eid al-Fitr there with Uyghurs.

Fourthly, we see Chinese troops walking in into Gilgit, etc. These are Shia regions, and Chinese need some Iranian support to keep the locals under control as well.

Signs of Convergence
So Iranians and Chinese are on one page.

a) There is a pipeline between Turkmenistan and China pumping Gas. When Iran's South Pars Gas Fields come online, Iran too would be sending Gas all the way to China through Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan. Along this pipeline there is quite a bit of cooperation between Iran and China, and it will only get better.

b) There is going to be some cooperation between Iran, Pakistan and China in Kashmir as well. One should again consider how Press TV of Iran has been active in inciting violence in Kashmir. It was Press TV's reportage that got the Valley burning again the last time, of course with full cooperation of Pakistan. There were also strong remarks from Ali Khamenei in favor of Kashmiri 'Azadi'.

c) During Anatolian Eagle Air Exercises between Turkey and China, Iran allowed the use of its airspace. This is a big deal and shows Iranian comfort in dealing with China. The Chinese jets flew to Iran probably over Pakistani air space.

Zardari Driving Iran-Pakistan-China Strategy
a) One only needs to look at the travel plans of Zardari to know which way the wind is blowing. In July, Zardari visited Iran twice within a month. How many times has Zardari been hopping off to China? After the Obama kill, he has visited China at least twice.

Zardari, who is a Shia, is more than willing to play the middleman, the man who brings Iran and China together, the man who provides Pakistani Army with the Chinese military umbrella.

b) We saw how Gilani went to Kabul and told Karzai that he should dump the Americans and join the Chinese, and start using RMB instead of Dollars for trading.

c) We read how PPP has made Chinese language compulsory in Sindh schools from Class VI onward.

d) We just saw how a Chinese company was given a contract to build a railway station just across Baimer District in Rajasthan, that means the Railway Station is going to come up in Sindh. I presume, that PPP Govt. in Sindh is actively pursuing this.

e) We saw how Zulfiqar Mirza, a PPP man, started accusing America of trying to break up Pakistan in conjunction with his local bete noire the MQM.

Of course the Chinese always counsel their best friends to be on very good talking terms with their enemies, be it Americans or Indians. This way their conquest is made easier. One would see Mahinda Rajapakse being friendly with Indians; Prachanda being asked by the Chinese to improve ties with Indians, after he visited Beijing as his first official visit; Zardari sending their ow so pretty Hina Rabba ni Kar to India, etc. etc. This is the traditional way of the Chinese to lull the opponents to sleep. Who knows when Begum Zia Khaleda comes to power, she too would get chummy with India.

Iranians too are more than willing to rope in Pakistan. They know they probably would never get much money from Pakistan for the gas they provide to it. Pakistan can't even pay its own energy bills. But the Iranians are more than willing to finance and build a Gas pipeline to Pakistan.

Iranians do not really gel well with TSPA, which has become more and more Wahhabi. So Iranians need Zardari, a Shi'a, as a go between.

Other Happenings
We also know that India's relations with Iran have dramatically cooled down, even as our relations with Saudi Arabia have improved. It is just USA putting pressure or does Delhi also see a pattern emerging of a Iran-Pakistan-China axis. If one may remember, the Iranians have since long not been asking Delhi about joining in the IPI Gas Pipeline.

When the Delaram-Zaranj Highway was taken over by the Taliban, India did not really make a big fuss about it, possibly because India knew that the equations in the region had changed, and India would not be using the highway anyway in any big strategic fashion.

Yes, that thing about the Northern Distribution Network. Well Chinese have Azerbaijanis in their pocket, and they can probably put the whole region aflame whenever they want, and most probably Ali Khamenei is using his Azerbaijani connections to make sure that Azerbaijan comes out of American grip.

Summary
On the one hand we see how Wahhabandis are pushing Pakistan into a war with India. Their propaganda is anti-India and they lead the charge in Pakistan against India.

On the other hand we are seeing their rivals, the PPP, using this dynamic of anti-Indianism in the Pakistani Army to build their axis with Iran and China by feeding TSPA what it needs - Kashmir and Military Strength. Basically Sindh has gotten on the Pakistani Horse in a big way.

With all this as backdrop, Indians are being forced to develop some policy towards Pakistan. It is just that Chinese, Iranians, TSPA, 'Moderate' Pakistanis, are all out to screw India. If Delhi increases tensions with TSPA, the Iranian-Pakistani-Chinese Axis profits from that. Delhi may know what is happening, but India which plays defensive strategy finds itself without any meaningful cards in hand. To create options, one has to leave house.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by sum »

shravan wrote:Army official killed by firing from Indian border

AATH MAQAM - At least one Pakistani army official was killed when Indian army opened indiscriminate firing at a Pakistani check post in control line Machal sector here on Tuesday evening.
Finally IA seems to have enough of the TSPA shenanigans of openly aiding the pigs trying to cross over and seems to be hitting the posts/TSPA folks aiding the pigs in plain sight of LoC

IMHO of course.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by Aditya_V »

IN our own little cross fire going in the last 3 pages, we seemed to have missed this small single taken in name of IEDology

Twin suicide bombing in Pakistan kills 23

And yes it is not in Pakjab.
QUETTA: A pair of suicide bombers attacked the house of a top military officer in the southwestern city of Quetta on Wednesday, killing his wife and 22 other people, at least eight of them soldiers, authorities said.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by sum »

^^ Think this was posted....DIG of FC and his security detail being hallaled.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by Aditya_V »

sum wrote:^^ Think this was posted....DIG of FC and his security detail being hallaled.
FC is miltary??? I think media has messed it up again mixing expendable FC with GHQ Khakis.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by sum »

But the FC is always headed by TSPA afsar onlee...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by Aditya_V »

DIG sounds Police a.k.a expendable compared to Miltary afsar.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Post by sum »

Aditya-ji,
Not really since as per Wiki:
The Frontier Corps (FC) (Urdu: فرنٹیئرکور) is a federally-controlled paramilitary force of Pakistan, recruited mostly from the tribal areas along the western borders and led by officers from the Pakistan Army. The Frontier Corps comprises three major subdivisions; FC NWFP (stationed in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province (fromerly known as North-West Frontier Province) and the Federally Administered Tribal Areas) and FC Balochistan (stationed in Balochistan province). Each subdivision is headed by a seconded Inspector General, who is a Pakistan Army officer of at least major-general rank, although the force itself is under the jurisdiction of the Interior Ministry.[1]
So it was indeed a serving Maj. Gen who met his 72 at the hands of some miscreants.
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