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Muslims, We Are Militant by Nature'; 'Afghanistan and Pakistan, With China At Their Back, Will Be Too Powerful a Bloc [Against U.S./India]'; 'Islamic Forces Are Also Moving to Confront India'In a recent interview, Lt.-Gen. (retired) Hamid Gul, former chief of Pakistani military's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), argued that it is not in Pakistan's interest to be part of the U.S. efforts for peace talks with the Taliban. "It is good if Pakistan is not involved in the talks [with the Taliban] because the goals that the U.S. wants to achieve are not in Pakistan's interest. The U.S. wants Indian supremacy in Afghanistan," he added
( I was under the impression that he was one of the surrender monkey of Dhaka 71 Fame)
ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - A blindfolded man stands on explosives, trembling as he confesses to spying for the CIA in Pakistan. Armed men in black balaclavas slowly back away. Then he is blown up. One of his executioners -- members of an elite militant hit squad -- zooms a camera in on his severed head and body parts for a video later distributed in street markets as a warning. Al Qaeda, the Pakistani Taliban and the Haqqani network -- blamed for a September 13 attack on the U.S. embassy in Kabul -- picked the most ruthless fighters from their ranks in 2009 to form the Khurasan unit, for a special mission. The Obama administration was escalating drone strikes on militants in the Pakistani tribal areas on the Afghan border and something had to be done to stop the flow of tips used for the U.S. aerial campaign. Militant groups don't have the military technology to match the American drone programme, but they understand the value of human intelligence, and fear, in the conflict. So the Khurasan were deployed to hunt down and eliminate anyone suspected of helping the Americans or their Pakistani government and military allies. Just this week, an Afghan couple visiting Pakistan was shot dead for spying in North Waziristan, where the group operates. "The whole community is scared of the Khurasan, and sometimes we ask each other 'have you seen the videos'," said one man, who like everyone else interviewed about the Khurasan, asked to remain anonymous for fear of reprisals. "They have people everywhere. How do I know who is an informer for them and who isn't?" HAQQANIS IN FOCUS
Made up mostly of Arabs and Uzbeks, the Khurasan, named after a province of an old Islamic empire, are a shadowy group of several hundred men who operate in North Waziristan, where Washington believes Haqqani network leaders are based.
Recent rains in Sindh have resulted in a loss of around Rs271 billion to major kharif crops, vegetables and fodder. Only sugarcane has survived the rains. Cotton and paddy are the largest affected crops.
Normally 800 to 1,000 trucks of fruit and vegetable arrive at the market, but since the rains started the number has fallen to 250 to 300 trucks a day. Tomato is arriving from Balochistan, but falls short of demand. Most of the vegetable supply to Karachi comes from interior Sindh. Onion is being supplied from Balochistan, while potatoes and cucumber have been imported from Iran. “The onion is rotten. Four out of 5 trucks contain spoiled onions,” he said.
Baluchistan is being treated practically as a foreign land.
He urged the government to waive duties on import of vegetables, so that common people may take the benefit of low prices of tomato in India. Tomato is selling at 15 to 16 Indian rupees in India. It should be available in Pakistan at Rs30 after including all charges, but it is selling at Rs100 in local market due to trade barriers and duties.
Import from India through Wagah border started this week. Currently 100-150 trucks of tomatoes are reaching daily. India has offered to send up to 400 trucks daily, but Pakistani customs officials clear about 150 trucks, sources said. Pakistan wants to send equal number of trucks to India, but India is allowing only 20 trucks. Sources said that Pakistani traders were visiting India to persuade its government to allow more import.
ISI denies, Pakistan denies, Paki Army denies...these fkers are making denial their last name...as in Ashphuck Kiyanahi. We can expect this last name to become popular soon in pakiland.
Taliban unsure about supporting Pakistan if US attacks: TTP
ISLAMABAD: The banned organisation Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) said on Sunday that it will never support Pakistan blindly in case of an attack from the US, DawnNews reported. This was stated by TTP’s leader and Taliban Commander of Bajaur area Moulvi Faqir Ahmed while taking to the BBC.e said that although the US and Pakistan are allies in the war against terrorism, both the countries are deceiving each other in the ongoing war in Afghanistan.Moulvi Faqir further stated that the US wants an exit passage for its army from Afghanistan while Pakistan is trying to entrap US further in the war.He said that the US is already attacking Pakistan, however, incase of some bigger action taken against Pakistan by the US, the TTP will not impulsively provide support to Pakistan. The Taliban shura will deliberate on this and then make the final decision regarding support to Pakistan, he added.
Washington: Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar on Sunday fought back allegations that Pakistan had not done enough against extremists, reminding that the "Frankenstein" of terrorism in the Af-Pak region was financed by the US but her country had been left alone to sort out the mess.
Khar said the war against terrorism was being fought in the region with joint cooperation between the US and Pakistan, and singling out Islamabad's role was being "biased".
Hitting back at allegations that Pakistan had not done enough in the war on terror, she said even Washington needed to do certain things.
"We strongly deny that. We feel that this is completely incorrect. That this is what could be called, you know, a biased statement. We feel that we are the ones who have reacted the most," Khar told CNN, denying allegations that Pakistan is not taking action against groups that use tribal areas as safe havens and attack Americans, westerners and Indians across the border.
She said Pakistanis were the ones who had sacrificed the most, fighting it out on the ground on a daily basis.
"I would completely deny that," Khar said when pointed out that Pakistan has never fought against the Haqqani faction.
"Let me also very humbly say that it takes two to tango. There are many things that the US would have to do," Khar said in response to a question.
Khar said the Frankenstein of terrorism in the region was not created by Pakistan, rather it was financed and assisted by several world powers including the US.
"This Frankenstein was financed and assisted by many world powers, including that was the US. So, while we are left behind to sort out the mess as the fear of Pakistanis is and this might happen again, we must not forget the historical evidence that we have which has led us to the place that we have," she said.
The Russians killed 1.3 million Afghans; however so far the Americans have only killed 50,000 Afghans. Historians are in agreement that America is a declining power…
seems the elite, the most faithfool have formed a new brigade called The Khurasan who terrify the other groups with their ruthless approach on collaborators. staffed with arabs and uzbeks mainly.
its the ever escalating leap frog race on who holds the high ground of being the most pure and can fire downward/shit on the less faithfool from their vantage point. the PA is nowhere near the top
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Filkins says several American officials told him that the phone call ordering Shahzad's killing came from the office of Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, the head of the Pakistan army and thereby the country's most powerful man.
Richard Miniter in the Forbes gets a bit of geography wrong when he says that a land route from India to Afghanistan will substitute for the Paki supply route. But otherwise, he has some suggestions on how to step on the Paki tail:
So it surprised nearly everyone when Mullen said the Haqqani Network, a terror group akin to al Qaeda that attacked the U.S. embassy in Kabul for 20 bloody and brutal hours on Sept. 13, was a “veritable arm of the ISI,” Pakistan’s military intelligence service. That means that Pakistan, who receives some $3.4 billion in military and civil aid from the United States, is using proxy groups to attack the United States.
The off-the-record briefing was even scarier. When the corpses of the militants who attacked the embassy were searched, cell phones were found. American intelligence determined that those phones had called leaders of the Haqqani terror group and, this part was jaw-dropping: high-ranking members of Pakistan’s ISI.
...
So what should the Obama administration do?
Shrink or end U.S. dependency on Pakistan as a supply line. Use our Central Asian allies to move more cargo by air and develop a supply line through India, which shares a border with Afghanistan. Yes, the land route through India would be far longer....
Direct the Voice of America to focus on corruption in Pakistan. Hard news reporting of payoffs to politicians and generals in Islamabad would electrify the opposition in Pakistan.
Stop selling military gear to Pakistan that it doesn’t need to fight terrorists. Why sell anti-submarine technology or anti-aircraft equipment or advanced avionics for jet fighters to Pakistan, when no terrorist outfit was a navy or an air force? Of course, this weaponry is designed to counter India, the world’s largest democracy and a friend to the United States. And much of this technology, like the wreck of the SEAL helicopter that crashed at bin Laden’s compound, is ultimately shared with China, which is not an American ally.
Call AT&T. Every month, the phone giant pays the government of Pakistan millions of dollars. Here’s how it works. Pakistan has to pay for access to AT&T’s satellites and undersea cables and AT&T pays for access to Pakistan’s phone network. Since roughly three times as many calls originate in America than they do in Pakistan, virtually every month AT&T owes Pakistan more than Pakistan owes AT&T. By executive order or congressional action, AT&T could be required to pay those funds into an escrow account in New York instead. The money would only be released on a monthly basis as Pakistan turns over named terrorists for trials in the United States or a place it designates. This amounts to bribing Pakistan with its own money, but it would work—especially if done in secret.
Something similar could be done with foreign aid as well as payments from Visa and Mastercard.
Inside the foreign policy bureaucracy, the complaint has long been that the relationship with Pakistan is “transactional, not strategic.” Attempts to transform the relationship have always failed—and no one tried harder than Admiral Mullen. Why not make it explicitly transactional and get value for our billions?
The off-the-record briefing was even scarier. When the corpses of the militants who attacked the embassy were searched, cell phones were found. American intelligence determined that those phones had called leaders of the Haqqani terror group and, this part was jaw-dropping: high-ranking members of Pakistan’s ISI.
If the Amir-khan is the all powerful sooper-dooper as claimed, few of these ISI afsars should meet their 72 or the relevant branches of the ISI offices would be hit by TTP/<insert org> soosai bombings..
If not, Amir-khan is just a richer( and more loudmouth) version of Dhimmi India....
sum wrote:
If the Amir-khan is the all powerful sooper-dooper as claimed, few of these ISI afsars should meet their 72 or the relevant branches of the ISI offices would be hit by TTP/<insert org> soosai bombings..
If not, Amir-khan is just a richer( and more loudmouth) version of Dhimmi India....
Obama, the weak president, will not be taking any risky decision before the election is over unless Pakistan acts really stupid and he is forced to act.
jrjrao wrote:Richard Miniter in the Forbes gets a bit of geography wrong when he says that a land route from India to Afghanistan will substitute for the Paki supply route. But otherwise, he has some suggestions on how to step on the Paki tail:
Perhaps he's been looking at a map of India from an official Indian source, where Kashmir does indeed share some border with Afghanistan.
How about a story that the Paki Generals and top ISI afsars on trips to China, eat a certain Chinese staple food, a few photos of afsars will drinks, women and eating that type of Staple food would rankle the faithfool.
A few paid Mullahs can then broadcast this in Pakistan and have debates on this?
The Pork eating in China is not a threat to the TSP jernails as it will allow them to claim that the pork eating was necessary in order to bring the PRC on the side of the TSP in the fight against the Kaffir India. More over, when the Kaffir PRC and Kaffir India fight. The Kaffir population of the world will be reduced.
This Frankenstein was financed and assisted by many world powers, including that was the US.
...
Let's not try and oversimplify a situation, which is very, very complex. And let's not try and alienate a populace. I'm not as concern about alienating the government of Pakistan, as foreign minister, my concern is you alienating the people of Pakistan
Shocking as it may seem, India/RAW/SDRE/Hindus/Brahmins/Baniya/Hindu-caste are not blamed here as usual for everything. Also missed completely are the population of countries harmed by gazis.
But if I am not mistaken, the people of pakistan do not decide or vote in first world elections.
vishvak wrote:
But if I am not mistaken, the people of pakistan do not decide or vote in first world elections.
they don't actually vote in their own elections either (well, putting a mark on a paper and having it vanish into thin air is sort of voting i guess), and if they do, only 1 of them votes for an extremist party. Luckily there are 160million such parties in liberal party going pakistan, unless of course they are non-state parties, in which case they cannot be held accountable by the government of pakistan or vice versa. which ofcourse is a fully liberal and democratic form of government as it says on the US State Dept. visitor handbook, especially the feudal bits. but anyway, over 50,000 soldiers have been killed enabling free and fair voting (for the army) in the pashtun badlands, i am surprised that you haven't counted those votes, and therefore i suspect you might be encouraging America to abandon Pakistan again without leaving any aids and/or making aliens out of the populace.
Pratyush wrote:The Pork eating in China is not a threat to the TSP jernails as it will allow them to claim that the pork eating was necessary in order to bring the PRC on the side of the TSP in the fight against the Kaffir India. More over, when the Kaffir PRC and Kaffir India fight. The Kaffir population of the world will be reduced.
So the pork eating in PRC was justified.
That will never be accepted by the Mullahs, Pork eating is a line which crossed immediately means Wajib-ul- kattle.
Aditya_V wrote:
That will never be accepted by the Mullahs, Pork eating is a line which crossed immediately means Wajib-ul- kattle.
Han Chinese believe that Muslims of Xinjiang do not eat pork because one must not eat the flesh of one's ancestors. China is an ally of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
jrjrao wrote:Richard Miniter in the Forbes gets a bit of geography wrong when he says that a land route from India to Afghanistan will substitute for the Paki supply route. But otherwise, he has some suggestions on how to step on the Paki tail:
Perhaps he's been looking at a map of India from an official Indian source, where Kashmir does indeed share some border with Afghanistan.
This means he says pakistan to leave POI (Pak Occupied India)
Richard Miniter is a RAW agent
jrjrao wrote:Richard Miniter in the Forbes gets a bit of geography wrong when he says that a land route from India to Afghanistan will substitute for the Paki supply route. But otherwise, he has some suggestions on how to step on the Paki tail:
Perhaps he's been looking at a map of India from an official Indian source, where Kashmir does indeed share some border with Afghanistan.
USA could consider an aerial bridge from Pathankot to Bagram flying over Jammu, Kashmir, Gilgit-Baltistan and Wakhan Corridor! Can the Pakistanis shoot any such transport plane down? If they do, they will have a war on their hands!
The shortest "natural route" from India to Afghanistan is due west from Srinagar. Peshawar lies almost exactly west of Srinagar at a distance of 300 km. The Afghan border is about 350 km from Srinagar and th eroute does not have to cross mountains. It does however go through PoK south of Muzzafarabad,, then north of Abbottabad heading through NWFP up to Peshawar
Basically an India-Afghanistan route is less of Pakistan and more of Taliban land. If the Durand line is dissolved and a Paktun state established theer could be a direct link from India to Afghnaistan.
FWIW, Arnaud de Borchgrave says it is time for the US to throw in the towel. Pakisatan is boss, Hackany is not a bad dude, and the US should do as it is told by the Pakis.
As for the Haqqani guerrilla network that Mullen says is protected by Pakistan's ISI and attacks U.S. forces in Afghanistan from its privileged sanctuary in North Waziristan on the Afghan border, the situation is anything but clear cut.
Its chief is Jalaluddin Haqqani, in his early 50s, who was once referred to by former U.S. Rep. Charlie Wilson, D-Texas, as "goodness personified" for his effectiveness in fighting the Soviet occupation.
The bottom line for the Obama administration is that there is no Afghan solution without Pakistan. And for Pakistan, there is no solution without Taliban and the Haqqani network.
To think there is an Indian solution, as some do in the Obama administration, is to simply guarantee a regional war-- and U.S. military involvement beyond 2014.
Urgent imperative is for the United States and Pakistan to bury the hatchet.
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Pakistan has been playing this double game for many years now. Its political leaders publicly avow full co-operation with the US in hunting down al-Qaeda and other terrorists. But, at the very same time, its army and intelligence service covertly incubate and arm some of the world's most vicious terrorist groups.
Australian army commanders in Afghanistan have been confounded and frustrated by this for the past decade....
The attacks on the US embassy in Kabul and the assassination of Rabbani appear calculated to wreck a peace settlement in Afghanistan. Why? Because Pakistan has been shut out of the process. It is demanding a role in the post-US political settlement in Afghanistan. It is using terrorists to deliver the message.
This is the only news among the bloodshed and the chaos that offers any hope. Motivation for the attacks is plainly political; a political solution is therefore possible.
Qadri negotiations and Shabaz Tasser kidnapping - This is too predictable even for a novice like me to figure out that Islamic law will be invoked to free Qadri.
I think the pakis live in an alternate reality. They must be perpetually staring into a mirror!
The (un)law minister for Punjab is working towards ensuring justice (sic).
Mr. Khar talks of a vibrant and peaceful nation of Pakistan in her UN address.
The GoP perpetrates terrorist acts and claims they are victims of terror.
They talk of people exercising their free will, but have their 'sensitivities' to protect by imposing their will on a people.
The majority of them are moderates, there is more extremism directed at the pakis by the YYY.
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jrjrao wrote:
Whither or wither Pakistan? To think there is an Indian solution, as some do in the Obama administration, is to simply guarantee a regional war-- and U.S. military involvement beyond 2014.
Who are these "some" in Obama Administration? As far as I have understood US, they always prefer the option which has a military involvement. And more often than not they exercise military option.
To think there is an Indian solution, as some do in the Obama administration, is to simply guarantee a regional war-- and U.S. military involvement beyond 2014.[/b]
Urgent imperative is for the United States and Pakistan to bury the hatchet.
I'm disappointed in Borchgrave, I thought he was one of the better ones. But to link this to Rudradev ji's points on the other thread ("US position on J&K")... the US needs to withdraw due to economic pressures. It needs someone who is willing to fight in Af-Pak and ensure at least some measure of US influence there. Pak is saying they can do it if they can keep the Haqqani n/w, which is a credible force. India needs to be able to offer something better and equally credible. India's need to fight for control within her own Suncontinent is legitimate and reasonable by any standard, unlike PRC's involvement.
X Posted from the ISI History and Discussions thread.
From the Atlantic the story of the ISI / ISID funded anti-Indian propagandist Syed Ghulam Nabi Fai who is currently an involuntary guest of the US Justice system:
...while we cannot force Pakistan to change its strategic calculus, we can at least prod it in that direction by making clear that ISI’s murderous misbehavior will no longer be tolerated.
We should start treating ISI the way we treated the Iranian Quds Force in Iraq. To stop the Quds Force from targeting our troops via local proxies, we mounted a multi-pronged campaign that included everything from the arrest of Quds Force operatives, to diplomatic pressure, to economic sanctions. The same model should be employed against the ISI. Apply economic sanctions against its vast range of business interests. Limit the travel and freeze the assets of its leaders, starting with its current head, Lieutenant General Ahmed Shuja Pasha. A designation of the ISI as a formal state sponsor of terrorism might also be in order. No doubt the Pakistani military would react angrily to such steps, but many civilians in Pakistan—including President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani—who chafe under heavy-handed military dominance might quietly welcome them.
We do not pretend that such steps would be cost free. But neither is the current policy of letting Pakistani proxies kill our troops and their allies with impunity.
The Sydney Morning Herald reports the frustration of the Australian armed forces caused by witnessing at close quarters the Islamic Terrorist supporting ways of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in Afghanistan while their political leaders praise the Islamic Republic of Pakistan for suppressing Islamic Terrorism:
Tolerance runs out in Pakistan's lethal game
October 4, 2011
Opinion
Peter Hartcher, Sydney Morning Herald political editor
The polite veil finally has been torn off, exposing one of the nastiest secrets in world affairs - one of the pivotal countries fighting the ''war on terror'' has also been one of the main exporters of terror. Pakistan has been playing this double game for many years now. Its political leaders publicly avow full co-operation with the US in hunting down al-Qaeda and other terrorists. But, at the very same time, its army and intelligence service covertly incubate and arm some of the world's most vicious terrorist groups.
Australian army commanders in Afghanistan have been confounded and frustrated by this for the past decade. They see insurgent fighters move from Pakistan into Afghanistan to shoot at them and other coalition forces, and then see them disappear back into Pakistan. At the same time, they've had to listen to their top brass and ministers and leaders of the US and Australia, among others, praise Pakistan for its sterling efforts in the struggle against global terrorism.
The glaring contradiction between words and deeds grew harder to sustain as the years went by and evidence mounted linking one atrocity after another to the Pakistani Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, universally known as the ISI…………………………..
The UK’s Telegraph reports that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan through its Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has claimed victory over the US after American officials backed away from accusing the ISI / ISID of supporting the Islamic Terrorist Haqqani network:
The Train Wreck
U.S.-Pakistan relations have been souring steadily since the start of the year. They’re only going to get worse.
By Shuja Nawaz | From the Oct. 7‚ 2011, issue.
was financed and assisted by many world powers, including that was the US.
I'm not as concern about alienating the government of Pakistan, as foreign minister, my concern is you alienating the people of Pakistan 