China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 02 Dec 2011 22:54

China's nuclear arsenal 'many times larger'
A US report uses open-source material to conclude that the country has 3,000 warheads, not 400 as previously estimated.

Last Modified: 02 Dec 2011 06:51

http://www.aljazeera.com/video/asia-pac ... 49304.html

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 03 Dec 2011 08:45

PLA Lessons from Foreign Conflicts

manum · Post by **manum** » 03 Dec 2011 09:14

abhishek_sharma wrote:PLA Lessons from Foreign Conflicts

Isn't it ridiculous and too literal to say "learn from others mistakes"...They cant learn from others mistakes, until unless they have a real war experience, or they are involved in some of these wars....
War experiences and outcome conclusions though look worldly in general...from the human eye perspective of people involved in conflict...its a totally different outcome, which one can not conclusively sum up to a rookie...

In general they seem to be in business of expanding their book of quotes...and include modern times references for war of words.
Its exactly the same difference of a design on paper and design already built...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Dec 2011 09:33

indeed. everytime the PLA farts, 100s of 'experts' and 'china watchers' around the globe jerk up into attention and go on spinning yarns about how its another strategic masterstroke, how its a new sound based ASAT weapon and how like good little people we should all dhoti shiver and say our daily prayers pointed in direction of peking.

the PLA guy who farted just scrathes his arse a couple of times and moves on...

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 03 Dec 2011 12:31

At all costs, India has to avoid military conflict of any kind with China which foreign powers would love to exploit.

The danger of accidentally getting into a shooting war with China due to a comedy of errors is high. This is probably the MOST underestimated danger at this point. Lets hope we are not headed down the path of 1962 though it sure feels like it.

India seeks to prevent skirmishes with China on high seas

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 963025.cms

Prabu · Post by **Prabu** » 04 Dec 2011 13:53

It is surprising that this comes from Omar Abdullah, but he is right !!
I wish India shows some spine while dealing with China: Omar Abdullah

manum · Post by **manum** » 04 Dec 2011 17:14

Prabu wrote:It is surprising that this comes from Omar Abdullah, but he is right !!
I wish India shows some spine while dealing with China: Omar Abdullah

Its because he is trying to balance the perspective of common people towards him...few days back he was making many remarks not so savory...So I guess everyone has their own punching bags to show patriotism...He is right or wrong is another thing...

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 05 Dec 2011 18:05

Neshant wrote:At all costs, India has to avoid military conflict of any kind with China which foreign powers would love to exploit.

The danger of accidentally getting into a shooting war with China due to a comedy of errors is high. This is probably the MOST underestimated danger at this point. Lets hope we are not headed down the path of 1962 though it sure feels like it.

India seeks to prevent skirmishes with China on high seas

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 963025.cms

Great. Awesome.
Better we give up Tawang. Or better still give up the whole of Arunachal Pradesh and throw in Leh as an additional measure. Allow the Chinese to station a division in Delhi. Allow PLAAN/PLAAF access to our bases, no questions asked. That would make sure that we can avoid military conflict. And no cost would be high.

And the reason why we should avoid military conflict? "Foreign Powers would love to exploit."

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 05 Dec 2011 18:25

Why such lack of strategic vision? To totally ensure,"100%" Chinese friendship and lack of enmity,usehring in a "1000 yr friendship",we should follow the Paki example,kowtow to the Chinese,drop dhotis and do an about turn! On the 40th anniversary of the historic war of Bangladesh and India's historic victory,what better example to follow that Gen. Niazi's "total and unconditional surrender"?

I am sure that our great "helmsman",who is already contemplating that route by the way he is behaving with Pak (perhaps hoping to return the '71 compliment?),can consider it also when next meeting his Chinese counterpart.Such a simple solution.No war,no likelihood of war,by a simple act of "surrender".

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 05 Dec 2011 18:32

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... -jin-class

I seem to have missed something in this. Isn't it just talking of a protocol, similar to what our and the chinese land forces have to avoid accidental skirmishes?

In fact, I thought what we are telling the chinese (in spite of you having a million nooclear warheads) we are equal equal to you and do not want to hurt you by mistake?

Please correct me if I am wrong.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 Dec 2011 05:09

Philip wrote:Why such lack of strategic vision? To totally ensure,"100%" Chinese friendship and lack of enmity,usehring in a "1000 yr friendship",we should follow the Paki example,kowtow to the Chinese,drop dhotis and do an about turn! On the 40th anniversary of the historic war of Bangladesh and India's historic victory,what better example to follow that Gen. Niazi's "total and unconditional surrender"?

Only in "south Asia" we have

1000yr War
1000 yr friendship
unconditional surrender

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 06 Dec 2011 05:26

The only way you avoid conflict in a bad neighborhood is to make sure the badmashes see your big danda.

skganji · Post by **skganji** » 06 Dec 2011 06:30

The reason for the spineless surrender of India to Pakistan and China is because of incompetent politicians of India and the legacy of Nehruvian Policies and his failure to see the real danger . Like an Ostrich he burried his mind in Hindi-Chini Bhai Bhai when the war is impending ini 1962. The same thing holds now. For some reasons India still carries this mind set even after having so much Military Infrastructure and Military Spending. I don't think these Politicians in India really understand the Military Strength of India in 2011. Indian Military ( Airforce, Navy, Ground) force is much advanced than it was in 1962. It is just that Indian politicians who are currently running the Indian government are clueless about the China Crisis.

sourab_c · Post by **sourab_c** » 06 Dec 2011 08:03

^ When has India "surrendered" to Pakistan and China? If India had a trigger friendly PM, we would be falling right into China's hands. In the grand scheme of things, there is a much bigger economic war going on between India and China.Try to look at it from both economic and military perspective. Peace must be maintained at all costs. We are not in a position to go around bullying China but are more than capable to defend ourselves.

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 06 Dec 2011 10:54

China’s Maturing Fighter Force

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Dec 2011 13:39

sourab_c wrote:^ When has India "surrendered" to Pakistan and China?

Well thanks for asking. I wanted to do that but I thought my comments may be too sarcastic and spark a flamewar. All too often statements such as these go unquestioned leading to an overall air of surrender and gloom followed by anger from perceived inadequacy at the end of a series of inane posts lamenting perceived Indian weakness and defeat. There is an Indian tendency to see Indians, Indian actions and Indian history as one continuous series of defeats, despondency and surrenders. Someone, something has certainly led to a unique development of the "Indian mindset" judging from the number of people who independently make such comments.

member_20617 · Post by **member_20617** » 06 Dec 2011 15:51

In 1948, 1965 and 1971, we had the opportunities to recover our lost land (PoK and Aksay Chin) but we did not. In the 1971 war, we captured 90,000 Paki prisoners and we let them go without gaining anything. We should have demanded for PoK in exchange for 90,000 Paki prisoners. I always felt that we are good at winning wars but we seem to lose out at post war negotiations. I know that we get pressurised by US when we are at negotiating table but we must always remember what our Prime Minister Shree N Rao said: ‘If Pakistan is incomplete without Kashmir then India is incomplete without Pakistan’.

It is a very difficult situation now as Pakistan has got nuclear weapons and China has become very powerful. Another thing that baffles me is that if Pakistan can blackmail us with their nuclear missiles, why can’t we blackmail China with our nuclear missiles?

Chinese claims Arunachal Pradesh but we don’t make any counter claims against China. When we are at negotiating table with China, we are already a loser as we simply do not have anything to bargain for.

China is planning to link Gwadar port to China via POK as a trade/military route. This will help China immensely as they do not have to go through Malacca Straits. They are also building a naval base at Gwadar from which both Pakistani and Chinese navies can attack India. This makes it very difficult for Indian army to snatch POK from Pakistan as Chinese would want to protect this vital trade route. Chinese army is already building secret bunkers there.

In order to nullify this strategic advantage of these two countries, India should offer China to build a High Speed rail track from Mundra (Kutch) to China via Nathula Pass. The Chinese would love this as this route is far more secure than the Pakistani one. India would also gain by using this new fast speed industrial rail track to transport its own goods within the catchment area. India can then charge China for using this facility. As Chinese economy grows, we can expect incremental royalties. Relationship between China and India will improve tremendously as China would rely heavily on this infrastructure. This in turn will impact Naxalite movement and it will no longer be supported by China. Equally, Pakistan/ISI/Taliban will stop attacking India as they would not want to upset Chinese.

India and China have never fought war for 3000 years except in 1962. If USA and Japan can be allies after Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombing and UK and Germany can be friends after two world wars, why can’t China and India be friends with each other? Once a strong trade route is established, we can use that as a leverage against any Chinese/Pakistani misadventure. Once both economies are intertwined then both countries can afford to spend less on military and more on development. I think my proposed new rail track will create a win-win situation for both countries.

manum · Post by **manum** » 06 Dec 2011 16:18

^^none of example stands as ground for acrimonious or affable relationship...These things will go on for centuries once started else other dissipates away...best way is to keep balance, keep talking and exploring options, while remaining ready for war...and boosting trade in between to cry out if tensions flair...

I don't think its really required to go radical to remove dispute, its better to keep doing mature things...There is never going to Rama Rajya, we gotta bloom in dirty water only...

adityadange · Post by **adityadange** » 06 Dec 2011 17:08

i dont agree with Shankaraa. why should we indians forget sins of china? they are using pakistan as "bakra" to keep us engaged and slow down our progress. and we become friends with them? NEVER.

India and China have never fought war for 3000 years except in 1962

i guess india never fought war with any country except pakistan and china for past 300000000000000 years. but do the chinese have a clean record for even 30 years? they have dispute with almost all neighbours. why so? are they the poor ones to get so many ill-headed neighbours? definately no. its them who should regret of their doings. why should we trust them and extend friendship hand? i would extend my hand towards them only to slap as hard as i can. i would surely love a train heading to Nathu La from anywhere in india but with tanks and missiles on board. sorry for OT but coulnt resist myself opposing idea of being friend with china.

P Chitkara · Post by **P Chitkara** » 06 Dec 2011 18:50

ashi wrote:China’s Maturing Fighter Force

Even the chinese don’t claim to have put their indigenous engines to use and this article is saying that they are using their own engines, avionics, radars etc etc etc. Looks motivated/sponsored.

They may have developed a lot (not being sold in intl mkt though

) but to say they are using their own engines is going overboard.

skganji · Post by **skganji** » 06 Dec 2011 23:53

I am amazed how some people are showing Ostrich mentality here. China threatens India in all possible ways and India doesn't speak anything back with courage. Pakistan sends terrorists to India and India still doesn't take any action against Pakistan. What did India do , to get back Master Mind of Mumbai attacks or Dawood Ibrahim ?. Nothing. This is definitely a sign of incompetency . Pakistan is trying the policy of bleeding India by all possible means. Well Mr. MMS gives some lackluster warnings now and then and keeps his mouth shut . Inumerable articles are floating around how China is trying to squeeze India by all means. India's defence preparedness is pathetically weaker than China. The only consoling thing about India may be the Indian Airforce which has shown some superior strength.
You can only extend your friendship arm to people whom you can trust and are equals . China doesn't think that way. It is unbelievable that they claim Arunchal Pradesh part of it and is not ready to accept the ground reality. Pakistan is no way a friend of India for last 60 years ( actions speak much louder than the policies they formulated for all these years). Fully agree with the comments of Aditya.

manum · Post by **manum** » 07 Dec 2011 03:15

skganji wrote:I am amazed how some people are showing Ostrich mentality here. China threatens India in all possible ways and India doesn't speak anything back with courage. Pakistan sends terrorists to India and India still doesn't take any action against Pakistan. What did India do , to get back Master Mind of Mumbai attacks or Dawood Ibrahim ?. Nothing. This is definitely a sign of incompetency . Pakistan is trying the policy of bleeding India by all possible means. Well Mr. MMS gives some lackluster warnings now and then and keeps his mouth shut . Inumerable articles are floating around how China is trying to squeeze India by all means. India's defence preparedness is pathetically weaker than China. The only consoling thing about India may be the Indian Airforce which has shown some superior strength.
You can only extend your friendship arm to people whom you can trust and are equals . China doesn't think that way. It is unbelievable that they claim Arunchal Pradesh part of it and is not ready to accept the ground reality. Pakistan is no way a friend of India for last 60 years ( actions speak much louder than the policies they formulated for all these years). Fully agree with the comments of Aditya.

War...some people want war like its a festival. Its only a symptom of inferiority complex or mind of 16 year old to cry war on each instance...Its great to avoid war, as much civilizations can and I am indebted to Indian leaders despite their failures, every time they took a decision, they always tried to do right thing keeping in view, the historic examples of our past and they tried to make sure, no wrong example passes down to next generation...

secondly there is no point crying a consequence you cant cause...like a 4 year old kid "abhi maar dunga" ( I'll hit you)...We are a nation of a billion, its good to build capacity, but its better to leave few decision to sticky politicians...They weigh a lot of things...

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 07 Dec 2011 03:32

India and China have a lot to gain if they cooperate.

Jaswant Singh quoted Kissinger about China
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commen ... 19/English

It is this “triumphalist” foreign policy, as Henry Kissinger calls it, with which India has to contend. The “Chinese approach to world order,” writes Kissinger in his new book On China, is dissimilar to the Western system of “balance of power diplomacy,” primarily because China has “never engaged in sustained contact with another….” on the basis of the concept of the “sovereign equality of nations.” As Kissinger, a committed Sinophile, points out: “That the Chinese Empire should tower over its geographical sphere was taken virtually as a law of nature, an expression of the Mandate of Heaven.”

Unfortunately, as long as China has the above outlook, that cooperation will not reach its full potential. While us Indics are happy living on our fertile lands, most other powers are expansionists in military terms. The same is true of China. They see themselves as the ruler of the world and see India as a thorn. Hence the love affair with the TSP including the continuing nuke transfer.

Clearly a transportation corridor through India will be a lot more stable and create mutual benefits and interdependence. However, since China sees India as a strategic threat they will not agree to it. They would rather court TSP and N. Korea (China's Israel according to a Chinese diplomat), than seek better relations with India. A significant issue of course is the CCP-PLA rule. PLA needs enemies to retain its clout and India is a great bogeyman.

It is rather unfortunate for India that she is surrounded by autocratic countries where what is truly good for the people takes a back-seat for the interests of the powerful.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Dec 2011 07:08

skganji wrote:I am amazed how some people are showing Ostrich mentality here. China threatens India in all possible ways and India doesn't speak anything back with courage. Pakistan sends terrorists to India and India still doesn't take any action against Pakistan. What did India do , to get back Master Mind of Mumbai attacks or Dawood Ibrahim ?. Nothing. This is definitely a sign of incompetency . Pakistan is trying the policy of bleeding India by all possible means. Well Mr. MMS gives some lackluster warnings now and then and keeps his mouth shut . Inumerable articles are floating around how China is trying to squeeze India by all means. India's defence preparedness is pathetically weaker than China. The only consoling thing about India may be the Indian Airforce which has shown some superior strength.
You can only extend your friendship arm to people whom you can trust and are equals . China doesn't think that way. It is unbelievable that they claim Arunchal Pradesh part of it and is not ready to accept the ground reality. Pakistan is no way a friend of India for last 60 years ( actions speak much louder than the policies they formulated for all these years). Fully agree with the comments of Aditya.

Sir, just making a list of expressions that you have used to describe India and Indians. To me, that is a very interesting list. Do you believe that you do not have/represent any of the deficiencies you have listed that you should need to make this post full of emotion and pathos? Just curious. If all Indians are like this, then you have to be non Indian if you are not in the list.

Ostrich mentality
India doesn't speak anything back with courage
doesn't take any action against Pakistan
incompetency
MMS gives some lackluster warnings
defence preparedness is pathetically weaker

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 07 Dec 2011 08:06

http://www.theworld.org/2011/12/china-nuclear-capacity/

Interviews
China’s Capacity to Wage Nuclear War

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... ml?hpid=z1

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... aphic.html

Was on NPR an hour ago.
Click the play button to listen

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Dec 2011 08:42

looks similar to the tunnel network that was planned for the MX missile system and later cancelled.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7t6JLdaNC0

they must have stolen the old manuals

I love the clear tone of these old american scientific documentary narrators...talking calmly of megaton stuff as if describing a kids toy...

arunsrinivasan · Post by **arunsrinivasan** » 07 Dec 2011 11:12

Hu Jintao tells China navy: Prepare for warfare

China's navy should speed up its development and prepare for warfare, President Hu Jintao has said.

He told military personnel they should "make extended preparations for warfare".

China is locked in territorial disputes with several other nations in the South China Sea. Political tension is also growing with the US, which is seeking to boost its presence in the region.

After Mr Hu's comments, the US said China was entitled to defend itself.

"Nobody's looking for a scrap here," said Pentagon spokesman Admiral John Kirby in quotes carried by the AFP news agency.

"Certainly we wouldn't begrudge any other nation the opportunity to develop naval forces."

Senior US and Chinese officials are currently holding talks on military issues.

The one-day meeting takes places every year, with the stated aim of ensuring there are no misunderstandings between the two nations.
'Sovereignty dispute'

China has recently acquired its first aircraft carrier and has been vocal about its naval ambitions.

But its military remains primarily a land-based force, and its naval capabilities are still dwarfed by the US.

Mr Hu told a meeting of military officials that the navy should "accelerate its transformation and modernisation in a sturdy way, and make extended preparations for warfare in order to make greater contributions to safeguard national security".

The word "warfare" was used in official media, but other translations used "military combat" and "military struggle".

Analysts say Mr Hu's comments are unusually blunt, and are likely to be aimed at the US and Beijing's rivals in the South China Sea.

Both the Philippines and Vietnam have repeatedly accused China of overt aggression in the region.

They are among the nations claiming sovereignty over islands in the sea in the hope that there could be oil and gas deposits there.

And US President Barack Obama announced last month that the US was boosting its presence in the region, and will base a full Marine task force in northern Australia.

Analysts say the US move is a direct challenge to China's attempts to dominate the area, and is likely to bolster US allies in the South China Sea dispute.

member_20617 · Post by **member_20617** » 07 Dec 2011 16:02

adityadange wrote:i dont agree with Shankaraa. why should we indians forget sins of china? they are using pakistan as "bakra" to keep us engaged and slow down our progress. and we become friends with them? NEVER.

India and China have never fought war for 3000 years except in 1962
i guess india never fought war with any country except pakistan and china for past 300000000000000 years. but do the chinese have a clean record for even 30 years? they have dispute with almost all neighbours. why so? are they the poor ones to get so many ill-headed neighbours? definately no. its them who should regret of their doings. why should we trust them and extend friendship hand? i would extend my hand towards them only to slap as hard as i can. i would surely love a train heading to Nathu La from anywhere in india but with tanks and missiles on board. sorry for OT but coulnt resist myself opposing idea of being friend with china.

Aditya

I did not say that we should forgive China and Pakistan but can we afford to have a full scale war with Pakistan, let alone China? Can China afford a war with any of its neighbours? No sane politician, whether Chinese or Indian, would want to derail economic progress. More importantly, all three countries have nuclear weapons and have the potential to wipe out millions of people. Do you want to see that? Please remember that there will be no winner in a full scale nuclear war anywhere in the world.

We need to contain China politically, economically and militarily. Did you know that China is already our biggest trading partner whether you like it or not?

If China and India cannot afford to go to war with each other then the only option left is to co-operate with each other. Over a period of time Chinese – Indian cooperation will nullify China/Pakistan nexus and it will also act as a counter balance to US pressure that we have always faced.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 07 Dec 2011 21:27

China's Hu Jintao urges navy to prepare for combat

BEIJING: Chinese President Hu Jintao urged the country's navy today to prepare for military combat and advance naval modernisation as part of efforts to safeguard world peace.

The navy should "accelerate its transformation and modernisation in a sturdy way, and make extended preparations for military combat in order to make greater contributions to safeguard national security and world peace," Hu said in a speech.
According to a statement on the government's website, Hu was speaking to the nation's powerful Central Military Commission at a meeting in Beijing focused on military armament and the latest developments in the navy.

"Our work must closely encircle the main theme of national defence and military building," Hu said, according to the statement.

In a translation of Hu's comments, the official Xinhua news agency quoted the president as saying China's navy should "make extended preparations for warfare," strengthening the term "junshi douzheng" that can be also translated as "military combat" or "military struggle."
Hu's comments come after China said late last month it would conduct naval exercises in the Pacific Ocean, following a major diplomatic campaign by President Barack Obama to assert the United States as a Pacific power.

The defence ministry said the exercises did not target any particular country, but the announcement comes against a background of growing tensions over maritime disputes in the Asia-Pacific region.

Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao last month also warned against interference by "external forces" in regional territorial disputes including in the South China Sea, a strategic and resource-rich area where several nations have overlapping claims.

China claims all of the maritime area, as does Taiwan, while four Southeast Asian countries declare ownership of parts of it, with Vietnam and the Philippines accusing Chinese forces of increasing aggression there.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 07 Dec 2011 22:24

Craig Alpert wrote:China's Hu Jintao urges navy to prepare for combat
BEIJING: Chinese President Hu Jintao urged the country's navy today to prepare for military combat and advance naval modernisation as part of efforts to safeguard world peace.

The navy should "accelerate its transformation and modernisation in a sturdy way, and make extended preparations for military combat in order to make greater contributions to safeguard national security and world peace," Hu said in a speech.

Is it only me or does someone else too, finds this interesting?

Hu let the dogs out, hu hu hu

Don · Post by **Don** » 07 Dec 2011 23:06

Does this effect strategic energy needs of China or its presence in the Indian ocean ?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/ ... 5Y20111207

China shale gas boom could surpass U.S. - Sinopec
By Tom Bergin
DOHA | Wed Dec 7, 2011 2:06am EST

Dec 7 (Reuters) - China is set for a shale gas revolution which will surpass that seen in the United States, the chairman of Sinopec, the country's second-largest oil company, said a day after Reuters revealed Royal Dutch Shell Plc had begun shale gas production in China.

Fu Chengyu, chairman of state-controlled China Petroleum & Chemical Corp (Sinopec) , said it could take five to 10 years but that China's output would exceed that of the United States.

"I think the total reserves are even more than the U.S. so production is not less than the U.S., but it is a matter of timing," he told reporters at the sidelines of the World Petroleum Congress.

U.S. energy markets were fundamentally changed by the development of shale gas. In the space of several years, the country went from natural gas shortages to a point where companies are planning to export gas to Asia, and are now looking at new uses for the abundant gas, such as auto fuel.

Earlier this week, Yuzhang Liu, a senior official with Shell's partner PetroChina, a unit of the country's top energy group, state-owned CNPC, said the Anglo-Dutch oil major had begun shale gas production in China.

Currently, a number of companies are exploring for shale gas potential in China but there is no commercial shale gas production.

A U.S. Energy Information Administration report in April said China had 1,275 trillion cubic feet (tcf) of technically recoverable shale gas resources -- by far the largest in the world, followed by the United States with 862 tcf and Argentina with 774 tcf.

Fu added China planned to learn from the U.S. experience to avoid some of the problems that arose there around water supplies and shale drilling.

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/UPDATE ... 8.html?x=0

Shell strikes shale gas in China

tweet1Print..
Tuesday 6 December 2011

* Shell (LSE: RDSB.L - news) partner PetroChina says two wells produce positive results

* China currently has no shale gas production

* PetroChina says rock formations different in China from US (Adds background)

DOHA, Dec 6 (Reuters) - Royal Dutch Shell Plc has found shale gas in China, a development that could cap imports in a market natural gas producers are hoping will drive demand.

An official with Shell's partner, PetroChina, a unit of the country's top energy group, state-owned CNPC, said drilling results from two wells Shell drilled had been positive.

"Shell has two vertical wells and they got very good primary production," Professor Yuzhang Liu, Vice president of Petrochina's Research Institute of Petroleum Exploration and Development (RIPED), said in an interview at the sidelines of the World Petroleum Congress (WPC) in Doha.

"It's good news for shale gas," Liu, who regularly represents PetroChina at industry events around the world, told Reuters late on Monday.

China currently has no commercial production of shale gas, which is natural gas extracted from soft, finely stratified sedimentary rock.

It is obtained by hydraulically fracturing the rock and requires large quantities of water and chemicals to extract, which environmentalists say can contaminate groundwater supplies.

Some industry executives doubt the boom in shale gas in the United States that has revolutionised the market there could be replicated elsewhere due to difficult geology, the lack of water availability or land access issues.

Liu accepted the rock formations in China were "different" from those in the United States but denied this meant they were more challenging or less bountiful.

In less than decade, shale gas has transformed the United States from gas shortage to a point where companies are planning to export liquefied natural gas (LNG), fundamentally altering the dynamics of the international gas market.

LNG projects freeze and squeeze natural gas into liquid for export in tankers. Many producers who were targeting the United States were forced to rethink their plans, and China, with its booming energy demand, was seen as the answer to their need for a market.

A Chinese 'shale gale' as the revolution was termed in America, could jeopardise that market, too.

Shell declined to confirm the find but said in a statement; "Shell will complete drilling activities by the year end ... as planned."

Chief Executive Peter Voser has previously said he had "great expectations" for Chinese shale but was cautious in his comments to the WPC on Tuesday.

"We are going through the exploration phase there and are exactly now analysing what potential is available now in China," he told a news conference.

In November 2009, PetroChina and Royal Dutch Shell agreed to jointly evaluate shale gas reserves of the Fushun-Yongchuan block in Sichuan basin.

Earlier this year, industry sources said Shell had started drilling two shale gas exploration wells in Fushun.

A U.S. Energy Information Administration report in April said China had 1,275 trillion cubic feet (tcf) of technically recoverable shale gas resources -- by far the largest in the world, followed by the United States with 862 tcf and Argentina with 774 tcf. (Reporting by Tom Bergin; Editing by Andrew Callus and Will Waterman)

aditya.agd · Post by **aditya.agd** » 08 Dec 2011 00:03

Indian government needs to ensure proper communication to her citizens. They need to ensure that Militarily India will be able to match up to China.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 09 Dec 2011 21:07

Shankaraa wrote:India and China have never fought war for 3000 years except in 1962.

That is a wishful and romantic statement, and unfortunately incorrect. Actual history is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Sikh_War

The climactic Battle of Chushul (August, 1842) was won by the Dogras who executed the enemy general to avenge the death of Zorawar Singh

As civilizations grow, they need more resources, and conflicts become inevitable. Its like brothers fighting over farmland to support their respective families, even if they were conceived in the same womb.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 09 Dec 2011 21:46

Don wrote:Does this effect strategic energy needs of China or its presence in the Indian ocean ?

Don, Shale gas are more expensive to produce compared to conventional gas and most importantly its long term environmental consequences of fracking is not known , some countries like France have banned Shale gas for environmental reason and becuase they use some chemical while they dig it contaminates ground water.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/i ... ng-graphic

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 09 Dec 2011 23:54

manum wrote:
skganji wrote:I am amazed how some people are showing Ostrich mentality here. China threatens India in all possible ways and India doesn't speak anything back with courage. Pakistan sends terrorists to India and India still doesn't take any action against Pakistan. What did India do , to get back Master Mind of Mumbai attacks or Dawood Ibrahim ?. Nothing. This is definitely a sign of incompetency . Pakistan is trying the policy of bleeding India by all possible means. Well Mr. MMS gives some lackluster warnings now and then and keeps his mouth shut . Inumerable articles are floating around how China is trying to squeeze India by all means. India's defence preparedness is pathetically weaker than China. The only consoling thing about India may be the Indian Airforce which has shown some superior strength.
You can only extend your friendship arm to people whom you can trust and are equals . China doesn't think that way. It is unbelievable that they claim Arunchal Pradesh part of it and is not ready to accept the ground reality. Pakistan is no way a friend of India for last 60 years ( actions speak much louder than the policies they formulated for all these years). Fully agree with the comments of Aditya.
War...some people want war like its a festival. Its only a symptom of inferiority complex or mind of 16 year old to cry war on each instance...Its great to avoid war, as much civilizations can and I am indebted to Indian leaders despite their failures, every time they took a decision, they always tried to do right thing keeping in view, the historic examples of our past and they tried to make sure, no wrong example passes down to next generation...

Its great to avoid war ?? Like what a certain UK Prime Minister did in Munich. Or what Stalin did by the Nazi-Soviet Non Aggression pact. Or like we did after the Mumbai massacre or Parliament attack? And what fine examples we are passing down to our next generation. We have to fight, not only to reclaim the lost Northern part of Ladakh, but also to restore the buffer that was Tibet.

And if we want to avoid war, then we should disband our armed forces. Declare a subversive relation to all of our hostile neighbors. Hell we can even start paying tribute to the so called more powerful power.

manum · Post by **manum** » 10 Dec 2011 00:05

See I can pretty much explain everything I said in a very convincing way...but looking at back I feel it was right decision to save another day for war...

No statements from my side on this, I just feel that way.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 10 Dec 2011 00:19

^^^^
Fair enough. Sometimes it is better to live to fight another day. I dont disparage your feelings and thought process.

skganji · Post by **skganji** » 10 Dec 2011 05:29

Sir, just making a list of expressions that you have used to describe India and Indians. To me, that is a very interesting list. Do you believe that you do not have/represent any of the deficiencies you have listed that you should need to make this post full of emotion and pathos? Just curious. If all Indians are like this, then you have to be non Indian if you are not in the list.

Ostrich mentality

India doesn't speak anything back with courage

doesn't take any action against Pakistan

incompetency

MMS gives some lackluster warnings

defence preparedness is pathetically weaker

I am a Indian by Birth and I still hold Indian Passport. I never dissassociated myself from the fact that I am a Indian at heart even though I live in US. I am not interested in making accusations blindly. Most of these comments are written by people who thoroughly researched on these Issues including the 1962 war, the present defence preparedness etc. India's political leadership has no courage to take boldly on outstanding issues with China and Pakistan. This is the perception one gets whenone sees articles on these major issues . I have raised an important question on why Dawood Ibrahhim wasn't brought to justice and why the perpetuators of Mumbai Massacre are still not brought to justice. We need answers not mutual bickering .

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 10 Dec 2011 06:10

skangi:

There is a lot going on outside the lime-light.

All the Chinese huffing and puffing gets a lot of attention. However, India is asserting her rights wherever she can. She is strengthening her relationships with other countries of Eastern and South Eastern Asia. Over the past month the opening up of Burma, the warming up of Australia and India's assertion to her right to joint exploration with Vietnam, as consistent with International Norms, are no insignificant developments.

When it comes to dealing with TSP: while like most Indians (and frankly most of the civilized world) would like the TSP(A) to get some jhappads, they are best left to stew in their own juices. The India-TSP border is now almost completely fenced and lit up like it is Diwali; it is in fact visible from space. While you can never keep all the pigs out, a majority have been kept out. TSP, like pigs, would love to wrestle with India knowing very well that it will be India which will get dirty (and suffer); the pig of course will remain a pig.

The bigger challenges India faces are internal. Can her economy continue to grow and alleviate people out of poverty at a faster rate? Can she get her government and military leaders get their act together when it comes to defense preparation? Another decade of high single digit growth, will double her GDP and immensely increase her global clout.

The greatest powers survive via shadow-boxing; not with rolling with the pigs. Once you start rolling with the pigs, the pigs have the edge unless you are able, and willing to butcher the pig. It will take a lot more than Mumbai to reach that stage; and its costs are not going to be insignificant.

I hope no Indian leader has to take that decision. It will play right into the hands of the CCP, while the declining West will be more than happy to see India and China waste each other out. Let India focus on guarding her borders, and building lasting alliances; let the pigs do the screaming and hollering.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Dec 2011 06:14

skganji wrote:

Sir, just making a list of expressions that you have used to describe India and Indians. To me, that is a very interesting list. Do you believe that you do not have/represent any of the deficiencies you have listed that you should need to make this post full of emotion and pathos? Just curious. If all Indians are like this, then you have to be non Indian if you are not in the list.

Ostrich mentality

India doesn't speak anything back with courage

doesn't take any action against Pakistan

incompetency

MMS gives some lackluster warnings

defence preparedness is pathetically weaker
I am a Indian by Birth and I still hold Indian Passport. I never dissassociated myself from the fact that I am a Indian at heart even though I live in US. I am not interested in making accusations blindly. Most of these comments are written by people who thoroughly researched on these Issues including the 1962 war, the present defence preparedness etc. India's political leadership has no courage to take boldly on outstanding issues with China and Pakistan. This is the perception one gets whenone sees articles on these major issues . I have raised an important question on why Dawood Ibrahhim wasn't brought to justice and why the perpetuators of Mumbai Massacre are still not brought to justice. We need answers not mutual bickering .

Thank you for taking the trouble to reply. You say "We need answers not mutual bickering", Do you believe that your post, that contained expressions like "Ostrich mentality" and "incompetency" while speaking of other Indians was a post that contained answers and was not bickering?

I believe that it was all bickering and no answers. That is all I was pointing out. I see more bickering than answers and to me the people who bicker don't seem to have any answers themselves. Bickering and complaining about how bad things are seems to be the name of the game. It strikes me that his need to bicker and complain without being able to offer any space for constructive or alternative thought could be a defining feature of Indians in general which is why I was curious.