India-US Strategic News and Discussion

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 24 Jan 2012 23:29

KLNMurthy wrote: We should also spend some time asking what side China or US will take if we get into conflict with US or China resprctively.

What kind of conflict will US have with India. Is it a cold peace with India now?

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 24 Jan 2012 23:37

Acharya wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote: We should also spend some time asking what side China or US will take if we get into conflict with US or China resprctively.
What kind of conflict will US have with India. Is it a cold peace with India now?

The point is to take a view in which Indian choices are not just limited to which overlord to serve, instead let us see who is ready to serve India.

Future can bring anything; it is true that we are friends with US but there can be tensions over Kashmir or the evangelization project to take two areas.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 24 Jan 2012 23:43

Only these. What about potential for armed conflict. Or taking sides with Pakistan during a conflict

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 25 Jan 2012 12:12

KLNMurthy wrote:What if instead of Ghori the outsider attacker was someone who would have evolved into a Kanishka? Does the neighbor against all outsiders rule still hold?

Look into their eyes and see whether they look like Ghori or Kanishka. Their hyper EJ activism should give you the required signs.

There are many kinds of neighbors, geographic is only of them.

Whatever happens in the world, you can not avoid your geographical neighbor.

KS's question about Meenakshi temple is brilliant.

While you like it, please think over some reports that the Athirathams (yagams) performed in Kerala in the early 90s were funded by Rockefellers. Some things go very deep.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 25 Jan 2012 15:37

US attitude towards India is best summed up by the way it behaved when its diplodocus flunkey was refused an audience with the Paki leadership.What did it do? It then in a fit of pique ,"on the rebound",and to show the Pakis the uptuned finger sent him to its mortal enemy,India! And what id the mandarins of our MEA do? INstead of telling him that he was visiting at an "inauspicious time",as if we are desperate for firang visitors,esp. from the US of A,received him with glee,fawning all over him,and like an urchin,cocked a snoop at the Pakis!

It exposes the absolute poverty of imagintion of our FM and our ineptitude in knowng how to deal with the US of A.The US behaves only when it is cooly told to "p*ss of",when it tries to apply undue pressure upon a smaller nation and indulges in deliberate hypocrisy in its diplomacy.It now needs a reliable "rent-boy" in the subcontinent,as its catamite of old ,like the proverbial worm,has turned! Sadly,our brown sahibs of the MEA and the PMO in particular want to "fill the vacancy" left by Pak!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 26 Jan 2012 10:41

http://pharmagossip.blogspot.com/2012/0 ... -over.html
U.S. settles with drugmaker Ranbaxy over violations | Reuters
(

Reuters) - The U.S. Department of Justice said it had reached an agreement with generic drugmaker Ranbaxy Laboratories Ltd (RANB.NS) to resolve the company's manufacturing violations.
The United States said Ranbaxy had "numerous problems" at its facilities in the United States and in India, such as not keeping written records and not preventing contamination of sterile drugs.The government also said Ranbaxy submitted false data in applications to the Food and Drug Administration.
Ranbaxy cannot manufacture drugs for the U.S. market at some of its facilities until it resolves the problems, the government said.Ranbaxy originally announced the agreement with the U.S. government in December but did not provide details about its violations. It set aside $500 million for any liabilities related to the case.

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 26 Jan 2012 11:25

Well... it is settled after acquisition by a Japanese pharma company.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 26 Jan 2012 19:55

^^^:"I don't think KS understood the nature of political control in the US, which is strictly enforced through assassinations, media control, vote rigging, monetary manipulation etc. If things continue the way they are going, one very much doubts that the US will be a particularly attractive place in 50 years' time. "

What evidence do you have for this? Both for KS not 'understanding' something you apparently do, and for the political control bit through assassinations.?

This line is peddled in Maoist publications

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 26 Jan 2012 20:22

Cosmo_R wrote:^^^:"I don't think KS understood the nature of political control in the US, which is strictly enforced through assassinations, media control, vote rigging, monetary manipulation etc. If things continue the way they are going, one very much doubts that the US will be a particularly attractive place in 50 years' time. "

What evidence do you have for this? Both for KS not 'understanding' something you apparently do, and for the political control bit through assassinations.?

This line is peddled in Maoist publications

See the thread http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... =24&t=5525 for background. You are welcome to post your comments there.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 27 Jan 2012 15:09

When Nato leaves AFG

For good or for evil, the moment when NATO decides to leave Afghanistan, the situation would be extremely serious in India. Given the current political and cultural instability of GOI and Hinduism respectively, the primary response of India towards the problem of Pakistan will be that of profound confusion as it is today. I guess, since India and Hindus do not have answer towards solving the problem of Pakistan and Islam respectively in subcontinent, their current reaction is instinctively based upon buying as much time as they can and wishing maximum possible infliction of damage on Pakistan by NATO. I guess, if NATO stays in Pak-Afghan region for 12-15 years more (which most probably they will), they will end up exhausting and squandering most of their wealth and lots of their men in the region.

The direct beneficiaries of this scenario will be China and Islamic world on one side and in weird way, India on the other. I consider this situation similar to one in deccan in late 1600's when 27 year long Deccan conquest of Aurangjeb ended up weakening Mughal empire and strengthening Marathas. Now, who will play the role similar to the one which Marathas played in 1700's is matter of great interest.

One thing for sure, if NATO forces are unsuccessful in defeating taliban in Pakistan-Afghanistan region (which most probably they will, since they are yet to clearly identify their enemy), even if they succeed in fracturing and dividing Pakistan, the devastation caused by them will be a catalyst for the formation of new Islamic state which will be modelled upon the Caliphate. Taliban is a movement, an ideology which cannot be defeated by weapons alone. It has to be tackled by ideas, a crucial point which is missing in the apparent War On Terror by the West. Without participation of India, West cannot win in south Asia. And India cannot win unless Hinduism finds a way of successfully assimilating the Muslims in the subcontinent. This process will take at least 60-80 years, perhaps more but definitely not less.

Either India OR Islamic federation backed up by China, both might have a fair chance to rise over the ruins of defeated West, just like Marathas rose on the ruins of Mughals. The odds will be in favour of Caliphate, given the laziness of Indians. However, if by then Indian religions find a satisfactory answer for assimilation of muslims in mainstream Indian society ending their alienation, India will rise for sure.

The direct consequence of battle of Rajasthan (Rajputs Vs Arabs) and simultaneous rise of Adi Shankara on India was 400 years of complete stability, prosperity and independence to India. India's only hope is to deliver a similar performance again.

member_22286 · Post by **member_22286** » 27 Jan 2012 15:24

Atri wrote:When Nato leaves AFG

For good or for evil, the moment when NATO decides to leave Afghanistan, the situation would be extremely serious in India. Given the current political and cultural instability of GOI and Hinduism respectively, the primary response of India towards the problem of Pakistan will be that of profound confusion as it is today. I guess, since India and Hindus do not have answer towards solving the problem of Pakistan and Islam respectively in subcontinent, their current reaction is instinctively based upon buying as much time as they can and wishing maximum possible infliction of damage on Pakistan by NATO. I guess, if NATO stays in Pak-Afghan region for 12-15 years more (which most probably they will), they will end up exhausting and squandering most of their wealth and lots of their men in the region.

The direct beneficiaries of this scenario will be China and Islamic world on one side and in weird way, India on the other. I consider this situation similar to one in deccan in late 1600's when 27 year long Deccan conquest of Aurangjeb ended up weakening Mughal empire and strengthening Marathas. Now, who will play the role similar to the one which Marathas played in 1700's is matter of great interest.

One thing for sure, if NATO forces are unsuccessful in defeating taliban in Pakistan-Afghanistan region (which most probably they will, since they are yet to clearly identify their enemy), even if they succeed in fracturing and dividing Pakistan, the devastation caused by them will be a catalyst for the formation of new Islamic state which will be modelled upon the Caliphate. Taliban is a movement, an ideology which cannot be defeated by weapons alone. It has to be tackled by ideas, a crucial point which is missing in the apparent War On Terror by the West. Without participation of India, West cannot win in south Asia. And India cannot win unless Hinduism finds a way of successfully assimilating the Muslims in the subcontinent. This process will take at least 60-80 years, perhaps more but definitely not less.

Either India OR Islamic federation backed up by China, both might have a fair chance to rise over the ruins of defeated West, just like Marathas rose on the ruins of Mughals. The odds will be in favour of Caliphate, given the laziness of Indians. However, if by then Indian religions find a satisfactory answer for assimilation of muslims in mainstream Indian society ending their alienation, India will rise for sure.

The direct consequence of battle of Rajasthan (Rajputs Vs Arabs) and simultaneous rise of Adi Shankara on India was 400 years of complete stability, prosperity and independence to India. India's only hope is to deliver a similar performance again.

The article is bilge at best the past is not a indicator here.Indian is a unified multi lingual country with a population which is extremely united in face of external threats.The author is smoking opium at best

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 27 Jan 2012 15:32

Ashok Gottipati wrote:
Atri wrote:When Nato leaves AFG

For good or for evil, the moment when NATO decides to leave Afghanistan, the situation would be extremely serious in India. Given the current political and cultural instability of GOI and Hinduism respectively, the primary response of India towards the problem of Pakistan will be that of profound confusion as it is today. I guess, since India and Hindus do not have answer towards solving the problem of Pakistan and Islam respectively in subcontinent, their current reaction is instinctively based upon buying as much time as they can and wishing maximum possible infliction of damage on Pakistan by NATO. I guess, if NATO stays in Pak-Afghan region for 12-15 years more (which most probably they will), they will end up exhausting and squandering most of their wealth and lots of their men in the region.

The direct beneficiaries of this scenario will be China and Islamic world on one side and in weird way, India on the other. I consider this situation similar to one in deccan in late 1600's when 27 year long Deccan conquest of Aurangjeb ended up weakening Mughal empire and strengthening Marathas. Now, who will play the role similar to the one which Marathas played in 1700's is matter of great interest.

One thing for sure, if NATO forces are unsuccessful in defeating taliban in Pakistan-Afghanistan region (which most probably they will, since they are yet to clearly identify their enemy), even if they succeed in fracturing and dividing Pakistan, the devastation caused by them will be a catalyst for the formation of new Islamic state which will be modelled upon the Caliphate. Taliban is a movement, an ideology which cannot be defeated by weapons alone. It has to be tackled by ideas, a crucial point which is missing in the apparent War On Terror by the West. Without participation of India, West cannot win in south Asia. And India cannot win unless Hinduism finds a way of successfully assimilating the Muslims in the subcontinent. This process will take at least 60-80 years, perhaps more but definitely not less.

Either India OR Islamic federation backed up by China, both might have a fair chance to rise over the ruins of defeated West, just like Marathas rose on the ruins of Mughals. The odds will be in favour of Caliphate, given the laziness of Indians. However, if by then Indian religions find a satisfactory answer for assimilation of muslims in mainstream Indian society ending their alienation, India will rise for sure.

The direct consequence of battle of Rajasthan (Rajputs Vs Arabs) and simultaneous rise of Adi Shankara on India was 400 years of complete stability, prosperity and independence to India. India's only hope is to deliver a similar performance again.
The article is bilge at best the past is not a indicator here.Indian is a unified multi lingual country with a population which is extremely united in face of external threats.The author is smoking opium at best

The author of the article is your's truly..

Would be enlightened to know where does the article deny the fact which you stated (that India is unified multilingual country)..

member_22286 · Post by **member_22286** » 27 Jan 2012 15:50

The author of the article is your's truly.. Would be enlightened to know where does the article deny the fact which you stated (that India is unified multilingual country)..

You are forgetting the fact a 1000 years back we were a idiotic lot with neither a sense of strategy,objectives or collective singularity thanks to a dysfunctional religious ideologies and selfish rulers.But a 1000 years later there is a unified nation a overlying sense of nationalism .As much as we have an idiotic elite neither the bureacracy nor the political class are completely blind to external and internal threats.A lot of yeomens work is being done in the Indian republic to plug our faults,defects and cleavages.Now you may say look at the current state of affairs but I would argue that a lot has been done to repair the sorry state of affairs.The results are not immediately visible due to inertia and the scale of the problem.

By simply saying that Indians are lazy and saying this line

The direct consequence of battle of Rajasthan (Rajputs Vs Arabs) and simultaneous rise of Adi Shankara on India was 400 years of complete stability, prosperity and independence to India.[/b] India's only hope is to deliver a similar performance again.

I feel you are simply ignoring the immediate History and changes it brought and the current state of the Indian set-up ,thinking of long happened events which cannot be repeated again in this case

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 27 Jan 2012 22:40

I think the reference to "Battle of Rajasthan" and "Adi Shankara" were metaphors for another military confrontation which crushes the dreams of Islamists in West for a good period of time and a religious reform movement which can bridge the gaps in society and move forward the nation.

both of those incidents are metaphors for what *might* be the ideal for a new Bharat....

as for "lack of strategy", I think the general breakdown of united/coordinated action starting after Harshavardhana's dynasty was the reason to blame. till then, external threats to the country were responded to and repelled. a confederation of Rajyas took the threat seriously. the example of Satavahanas repelling Shakas is a pointer in this direction. Satavahanas were a Deccan power and yet they sent armies all the way into Gujarat/Sindh, Rajasthan, and Punjab to fight the Shakas along with the local indigenous Rajyas.

the Sena/Pala empire in Bengal was the last time we see the Afghanistan region united with the Gangetic Valley, but even that only lasted for a short time. so the last quarter of the 1st millennium saw the slow breakdown of coordinated action among the various Indic regions.

eventually, it got so bad that when the Delhi Sultanate was slowly consolidating its hold on GV and started pushing South, the 4 power centers of the South: Devagiri, Kakatiya, Hoysala, and Pandya/Cholas were fighting among themselves, blissfully ignoring the threat that was gaining power in the North. the behavior of these 4 power centers is truly bizarre in the 12th and 13th centuries. when only centuries ago, the Satavahanas and men like Pulakeshin existed, now they were conducting as if they were in an isolated cocoon where nobody from the North ever influenced their lives!!!

I have been perplexed by this and have yet to find an answer to this bizarre behavior...

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 27 Jan 2012 22:56

Pranav wrote:
Cosmo_R wrote:^^^:"I don't think KS understood the nature of political control in the US, which is strictly enforced through assassinations, media control, vote rigging, monetary manipulation etc. If things continue the way they are going, one very much doubts that the US will be a particularly attractive place in 50 years' time. "

What evidence do you have for this? Both for KS not 'understanding' something you apparently do, and for the political control bit through assassinations.?

This line is peddled in Maoist publications
See the thread http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... =24&t=5525 for background. You are welcome to post your comments there.

I did and am reposting here:

"New World Order',
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_ ... _theory%29

Trilateral Commission

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission

Read the CT part

Where is the evidence to support this contention: "nature of political control in the US, which is strictly enforced through assassinations, media control, vote rigging, monetary manipulation etc."?

Makes for a good Ludlum pot boiler but not something any immigrant to the US is going to take seriously or at all.

member_19686 · Post by **member_19686** » 27 Jan 2012 23:06

Ashok Gottipati wrote:

The author of the article is your's truly.. Would be enlightened to know where does the article deny the fact which you stated (that India is unified multilingual country)..
You are forgetting the fact a 1000 years back we were a idiotic lot with neither a sense of strategy,objectives or collective singularity thanks to a dysfunctional religious ideologies and selfish rulers.But a 1000 years later there is a unified nation a overlying sense of nationalism .As much as we have an idiotic elite neither the bureacracy nor the political class are completely blind to external and internal threats.A lot of yeomens work is being done in the Indian republic to plug our faults,defects and cleavages.Now you may say look at the current state of affairs but I would argue that a lot has been done to repair the sorry state of affairs.The results are not immediately visible due to inertia and the scale of the problem.

By simply saying that Indians are lazy and saying this line
The direct consequence of battle of Rajasthan (Rajputs Vs Arabs) and simultaneous rise of Adi Shankara on India was 400 years of complete stability, prosperity and independence to India.[/b] India's only hope is to deliver a similar performance again.

I feel you are simply ignoring the immediate History and changes it brought and the current state of the Indian set-up ,thinking of long happened events which cannot be repeated again in this case

Any evidences to back up these assertions?

What "nationalism", you mean flag waving on Aug 15th?

The Indian gov't can't even protect or do anything for hundreds of thousands of Hindus ethnically cleansed from Kashmir for 23 years now.

The same gov't is now talking about reservations for Muslims.

Great "nationalism" right there.

At least Jaipal Shahi committed suicide out of shame when he failed to stop Ghaznavi despite his best efforts, what did Chacha Nehru do after the debacle of 1962 which was a direct result of his "Hindi-Chini bhai bhai" nonsense?

If our ancestors sat on their asses talking about "composite culture" "secularism" and other such nonsense instead of fighting, we would have gone the way of Greece, Persia, Egypt, Rome, Aztecs, Mayans, Incas a long time back.

Our heroic political class (unlike those bad bad rajas of the past and their evil brahmin advisers) is the same one who recently raised the bogey of "Hindu terror" and under whom there were so many terrorist attacks that people have lost count of the number. It is the same class which recently surrendered to Jihadist demands in the Rushdie case. It shows its bravery by ordering midnight assaults on peaceful middle aged women (Rajbala).

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Jan 2012 23:15

Ashok,
Just because one cant understand a strategy one cannot say there is no strategy. One can see the strategy in the actions. This is how Paul Kennedy wrote the grand strategy of the British Empire.

Atri is referring to the 400 years of peace in the interval after those two events. Can you dispute the peace?

member_22286 · Post by **member_22286** » 27 Jan 2012 23:24

The author of the article is your's truly..

Would be enlightened to know where does the article deny the fact which you stated (that India is unified multilingual country)..[/quote]
You are forgetting the fact a 1000 years back we were a idiotic lot with neither a sense of strategy,objectives or collective singularity thanks to a dysfunctional religious ideologies and selfish rulers.But a 1000 years later there is a unified nation a overlying sense of nationalism .As much as we have an idiotic elite neither the bureacracy nor the political class are completely blind to external and internal threats.A lot of yeomens work is being done in the Indian republic to plug our faults,defects and cleavages.Now you may say look at the current state of affairs but I would argue that a lot has been done to repair the sorry state of affairs.The results are not immediately visible due to inertia and the scale of the problem.

By simply saying that Indians are lazy and saying this line

The direct consequence of battle of Rajasthan (Rajputs Vs Arabs) and simultaneous rise of Adi Shankara on India was 400 years of complete stability, prosperity and independence to India.[/b] India's only hope is to deliver a similar performance again.

I feel you are simply ignoring the immediate History and changes it brought and the current state of the Indian set-up ,thinking of long happened events which cannot be repeated again in this case[/quote]

Any evidences to back up these assertions?

What "nationalism", you mean flag waving on Aug 15th?

The Indian gov't can't even protect or do anything for hundreds of thousands of Hindus ethnically cleansed from Kashmir for 23 years now.

The same gov't is now talking about reservations for Muslims.

Great "nationalism" right there.

At least Jaipal Shahi committed suicide out of shame when he failed to stop Ghaznavi despite his best efforts, what did Chacha Nehru do after the debacle of 1962 which was a direct result of his "Hindi-Chini bhai bhai" nonsense?

If our ancestors sat on their asses talking about "composite culture" "secularism" and other such nonsense instead of fighting, we would have gone the way of Greece, Persia, Egypt, Rome, Aztecs, Mayans, Incas a long time back.

Our heroic political class (unlike those bad bad rajas of the past and their evil brahmin advisers) is the same one who recently raised the bogey of "Hindu terror" and under whom there were so many terrorist attacks that people have lost count of the number. It is the same class which recently surrendered to Jihadist demands in the Rushdie case. It shows its bravery by ordering midnight assaults on peaceful middle aged women (Rajbala).

The bold part already answer a lot of your rant.Fighting simply isn't important fighting against an enemy by allying together by resolving the differences,framing tactics and strategy and executing them with great co-ordination is needed all the above qualities were sorely lacking in our ancestors.

Comitting suicide out of shame for honour is nice to hear but epic stupid.Retreating,regrouping and learning from our past mistakes is what I prefer the most and the most patriotic thing to be done.Jaipal Shahi never did that.

member_22286 · Post by **member_22286** » 27 Jan 2012 23:32

ramana wrote:Ashok,
Just because one cant understand a strategy one cannot say there is no strategy. One can see the strategy in the actions. This is how Paul Kennedy wrote the grand strategy of the British Empire.

Atri is referring to the 400 years of peace in the interval after those two events. Can you dispute the peace?

I intrepreted Atri's statement we are going to go down the drain soon and saw it as extreme pessimism.The peace was there but there were no lessons learnt from the past during those 400 years.

Sir,I beg to disagree barring Gandhi and Guru Gobind Singh I cannot see any individuals who tried to instiutionalise and sustain a culture of strategic thought.Gandhi did this by acheiving us Indepedence and the Guru did by the Instituion of Khalsa.Where as the British are an entirely different species

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Jan 2012 23:35

After MKG's murder it was understood inIndia that strategy should not be articulated but implemented.

member_19686 · Post by **member_19686** » 27 Jan 2012 23:36

In other words you have no evidence for your assertions and just make them up as you see fit.

And what did your Chacha Nehru and the "political class" you seek to glorify learn and do?

Did he stop his disastrous economic policies or any number of his pet schemes that continue to this day?

Funny how you conveniently avoided my pointed questions to you about the behavior of this much glorified "political class" right now whether its surrender to Islamists in the Rushdie case, reservations for Muslims, ethnic cleansing of Hindu Kashmiris, terror attacks.

That shows up the "political class" you seek to glorify for what it is, a vile cowardly surrender monkey kissing Jihadist ass.

Your knowledge of history is obviously lacking to make the silly assertions you did, all this has been discussed numerous times on this very forum by Airavat and others and I am not in the habit of spoon feeding.

Edit: If Gandhi got us independence, then he also got us Partition and the genocide of millions of Hindus-Sikhs. After all you cannot only attribute the good that took place under his leadership to him but all the bad is someone's else's doing.

member_22286 · Post by **member_22286** » 27 Jan 2012 23:41

ramana wrote:After MKG's murder it was understood inIndia that strategy should not be articulated but implemented.

Thanks sir you understood what I intended to say

member_22286 · Post by **member_22286** » 28 Jan 2012 00:07

In other words you have no evidence for your assertions and just make them up as you see fit.

Evidence what the marathas are a fine example of the type of individuals I stated.Muhammad of Ghor is also a fine example of what I stated if Prithwiraj raso is to be believed

And what did your Chacha Nehru and the "political class" you seek to glorify learn and do?

He nourished ,sustained a great democracy and he did this for nearly 17 years as the sole binding figure for a very young Republic anyone else other than him we would have become a Banana republic(Patel died in 1950)

Did he stop his disastrous economic policies or any number of his pet schemes that continue to this day?

His policies were beneficial to India until 1964-65 we must blame his daughter more for this current rut.Iam no fan of her

Funny how you conveniently avoided my pointed questions to you about the behavior of this much glorified "political class" right now whether its surrender to Islamists in the Rushdie case, reservations for Muslims, ethnic cleansing of Hindu Kashmiris, terror attacks.

Simple ,the HDI best shows it the present day common Indian is living in a better environment than my ancestors any other day.A lot of work was done to bring change,Change was brought and more change will come .This is not rapid due to the scale of the problem involved and the underlying inertia

That shows up the "political class" you seek to glorify for what it is, a vile cowardly surrender monkey kissing Jihadist ass.

Shiv sir gave a very good answer to this line of thought in TSP thread.Iam a pragmatic thinking patriot not a Jingo ,we need to do the best with the basic tools what we have

Your knowledge of history is obviously lacking to make the silly assertions you did, all this has been discussed numerous times on this very forum by Airavat and others and I am not in the habit of spoon feeding.

If the sun rising in the east is an assertion for you I won't argue with that.Iam not a novice to the subject of history but Iam forever willing to learn something new and widen my views

Edit: If Gandhi got us independence, then he also got us Partition and the genocide of millions of Hindus-Sikhs. After all you cannot only attribute the good that took place under his leadership to him but all the bad is someone's else's doing.

Gandhi is god in blood and flesh they were none like him before but there will be more like him in the future.He is god for he unified a very diverse,cynical and depraved set of individuals gave us an identity and fought against the british.The partition should be kept at Jinnah's foot step not Gandhi,for he saw all Indian's irrespective of their identities as his children

Sir,Please stop this debate in this thread,it's OT here

member_19686 · Post by **member_19686** » 28 Jan 2012 00:19

Prithviraj Raso that's your source lol.

Better study Airavat's posts on Tarain, Prithviraj and Ghori then instead of believing silly myths.

Rest of your post contains so much unintended comedy gold.

Like your claim that HDI is better now than any time in the past, guess you forgot the pesky fact that India was before Muslim and Christian British Raj one of the richest civilizations of the world.

Gandhi is a "god", so much for objective thinking. That is called hero worship. May be you and your ancestors were "depraved" but don't put any such slurs on mine, they certainly weren't depraved and needed no Gandhi to give them an identity.

If Gandhi saw everyone as his children then how come he never told Muslims to go get killed without resistance like he told Hindus and Sikhs to do, double standards much?

You have an excuse for everything when it comes to your god like "political class" (change was brought blah blah blah) of the current day but conveniently have no such excuses for our ancestors, funny how that works.

If you are a novice in history then best to keep the ignorance to yourself instead of spouting off about things you have absolutely no clue of.

If this is OT then so is making our ancestors look like imbeciles who needed the savior Gandhi to teach them the basics when Gandhi himself behaved like an imbecile for a long time in politics.

Edit: Here is impartial "god" Gandhi's advice to Hindus and Sikhs:

During his prayer meeting on 1 May 1947, he prepared the Hindus and Sikhs for the anticipated massacres of their kind in the upcoming state of Pakistan with these words: "I would tell the Hindus to face death cheerfully if the Muslims are out to kill them. I would be a real sinner if after being stabbed I wished in my last moment that my son should seek revenge. I must die without rancour. (*) You may turn round and ask whether all Hindus and all Sikhs should die. Yes, I would say. Such martyrdom will not be in vain." (Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi, vol.LXXXVII, p.394-5) It is left unexplained what purpose would be served by this senseless and avoidable surrender to murder.

http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/arti ... stake.html

My last post on this topic.

saumitra_j · Post by **saumitra_j** » 28 Jan 2012 00:28

Deleted and moved this and other messages to GDF forum

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Jan 2012 00:29

May I remind folks this thread is India-US strategic News and Discussion thread.
Anything else is off topic.

No more in this thread.
ramana

member_22286 · Post by **member_22286** » 28 Jan 2012 00:33

ramana wrote:May I remind folks this thread is India-US strategic News and Discussion thread.
Anything else is off topic.

No more in this thread.
ramana

Sir,If permission give I will give one last reply to him or in any other thread of your choosing

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 28 Jan 2012 00:44

Cosmo_R wrote:
Pranav wrote: See the thread http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... =24&t=5525 for background. You are welcome to post your comments there.
I did and am reposting here:

"New World Order',
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_ ... _theory%29

Trilateral Commission

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission

Read the CT part

Where is the evidence to support this contention: "nature of political control in the US, which is strictly enforced through assassinations, media control, vote rigging, monetary manipulation etc."?

Makes for a good Ludlum pot boiler but not something any immigrant to the US is going to take seriously or at all.

Cosmo ji, it is not a question of what the average fellow may take seriously or not. There should be a rational approach. There are plenty of folks who walk around with beliefs such as "Al Qaeda did 9/11". If you find yourself in that category, then you may carefully read the above mentioned thread from the second post onwards. There is in fact plenty of evidence there. You are welcome to post any specific disagreements in that thread (not this one). Having done that, I'll be happy to give pointers to answers to other questions.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 28 Jan 2012 00:45

Ashok ji,

please take this discussion to Distorted history thread in GDF forum. I am most interested in continuing this discussion.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... =24&t=3978

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 31 Jan 2012 23:20

President Obama's "interview with America" yesterday. H1B question at 05:50. "Why give money to Pakistan" at 21:10. Question on drones (where Obama admits drone attacks in Pakistan) at 26:20.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 01 Feb 2012 03:05

Sadanand Dhume dancing to the tunes of his masters

Published on Jan 31, 2012
By Sadanand Dhume
Weaning India Off Iran: Wall Street Journal

The bigger issue is that any Indian policy that privileges ties with Iran ahead of the U.S.-India relationship misses the forest for the trees. It would mean damaging India's long-term global aspirations in the pursuit of short-term regional ones.

Consider how Indian intransigence looks to America. Cutting across party lines, policy makers in Washington don't see Iran as an issue where friends can agree to disagree. They may be happy to give India a pass when it prefers to buy European fighter jets over American ones, as it did last year; or when the Indian parliament passes a nuclear liability bill that effectively freezes out American companies, as it did two years ago. But Iran's quest for nuclear weapons is America's single most pressing security concern, and as far as many in Washington are concerned, it ought to be non-negotiable for its partners too.

For the foreseeable future, India's quest for security and prosperity is most effectively pursued in a predictable and stable U.S.-led international order. This means disagreeing with Washington where India's concerns trump American ones—as, until recently, on Myanmar—but being sensitive to threats to global stability. In short, India ought to bolster U.S.-led sanctions on Iran instead of balking at them.

Yeah, like America really cared when Pakistan was getting nukes! America should first denuke Pakistan, then India would gladly support American viz-a-viz Iran!

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 01 Feb 2012 04:36

Dhume is blowing dhum. Even his language of Oiros and khans allowing India this or that is absurd. I hope babuz will do the needful and politely block all bullying efforts.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 01 Feb 2012 10:55

^^^ Nevertheless, as Dhume points out, we should not underestimate the centrality of Israeli security for the US.

Basically, the choice is between keeping Israel and the US happy on an issue that concerns them the most and throwing the Iranians under the bus.

Of course, after seeing what happened to Gaddhafi, it is hard to advise anybody to give up nukes. And it is also true that the US has hardly been sensitive to core Indian concerns.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 01 Feb 2012 16:18

Takshashila boys (nitinpai and friends) and this Dhume dude - all dance to US interests. Some of their comments are unbelievable.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 01 Feb 2012 16:48

shyamd wrote:Takshashila boys (nitinpai and friends) and this Dhume dude - all dance to US interests. Some of their comments are unbelievable.

Yes, acorns farts are ROTFLLOL on many occasions.

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » 01 Feb 2012 18:04

shyamd wrote:Takshashila boys (nitinpai and friends) and this Dhume dude - all dance to US interests. Some of their comments are unbelievable.

Who funds Takshashila? Any info?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 01 Feb 2012 18:44

Dhume's utter, abject shamelessness is evident when he says

or the foreseeable future, India's quest for security and prosperity is most effectively pursued in a predictable and stable U.S.-led international order. This means disagreeing with Washington where India's concerns trump American ones—as, until recently, on Myanmar— but being sensitive to threats to global stability . In short, India ought to bolster U.S.-led sanctions on Iran instead of balking at them.

In other words "global stability" means US interests, but India's stability, nah, its a subset of "global stability" which means TSP terror, TSP nukes can be igored, India forced to surrender to TSP, its India and Paaaaakistaaaan aiding and abetting "global stability".

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 01 Feb 2012 19:31

CRamS wrote:Dhume's utter, abject shamelessness is evident ...

In other words "global stability" means US interests, but India's stability, nah, its a subset of "global stability" which means TSP terror, TSP nukes can be igored ...

All of that may be true, but Dhume is right about one thing - the security of Israel, and consequently, Iran's nuclear capability, is the No 1 priority of those who run the show in the US.

Up to us to react based on our own assessments.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 01 Feb 2012 20:28

The indications are that Assad may survive the present turmoil. If he does that, then it will be a serious setback for western interests in west Asia.

The Iran-Iraq-Syria-Hezbollah axis may endure for another decade or more, with support from Putin's Russia and from China. Pakistan, if it survives, may associate itself with this grouping. This will not be an alliance as such, since there will be wariness between Russia and China, and also between Pakistan and Iran. But they will support each other against the west.

Obviously this will mean a weakening of western influence in west Asia.

That is not a necessarily a negative development for India. If, as US influence declines in west Asia, it becomes more sensitive to Indian concerns in Af-Pak and with respect to China, then it may be a net positive for India.

Although Iranian Mullahs are sometimes unsavory characters, we have no hostility towards them. India needs to retain cordial relations with Iran and continue with the close relations with Russia to prevent Paks and Chinis from deriving any advantage from above mentioned grouping.

So there should be a dialog with Israel and the US to get them on board with India's need to maintain cordiality with Iran. India could concede, if necessary, a small decline in imports from Iran, but not so large as to send a negative signal to the Iranians. Even if western influence declines in west Asia, let the west perceive India as their best bet.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 01 Feb 2012 20:47

shyamd wrote:Takshashila boys (nitinpai and friends) and this Dhume dude - all dance to US interests. Some of their comments are unbelievable.

I am not sure why you would group them together. Especially on this issue, Pai's views on Iran are diametrically opposite to that of Dhume.

http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2012/0 ... lear-iran/