That's quite a composure the boy displays in this interview. I now see his point about not taking the plea deal and is difficult to disagree with. Godspeed to his fight to keep his character unblemished and hope sanity prevails in the system/society.
Satya_anveshi wrote:It would be interesting to know whether the hostel permitted sharing of room by males and females. Where I studied, although males and females were in the same complex, but an apartment unit MUST be shared by folks of same sex. Univ did NOT allow sharing the unit by members of opposite sex.
If this was also the case with Rutgers, here are my thoughts:
Doesn't the spirit of not having males and females in the same unit diluted when you permit a chakka sharing a room with a straight? Shouldn't the chakka share the room with another chakka (oops that too could be a problem) or at least a male chakka be allotted to unit with females and female chakki be allotted with male? (I know, I know some of you may be getting ideas
)
If Tyler didn't openly mention that he was chakka, did he lie by not mentioning his orientations before the room allotment or should the Univ also be held accountable for exposing Ravi to possible risk of molestation? Shouldn’t Ravi justifiably scared?
Where does one draw the line between getting scared and securing oneself from chakkas and "bias" intimidation?
Didn’t Tyler *prove* his "bias" against folks with whom he was sharing the unit? Sounds like the “qualified” jury members should be those who have lived with chakkas in a unit for at least a few weeks and come out unscathedand then be in position to judge whether Ravi was indeed showing "bias" or genuinely scared?
gakakkad saab, don't know what this rule/doctrine is but a cursory glace at wiki says that this is a defence to be applied against a potential charge of homicide. Not sure if this would be applicable in this case but what do I know about these matters.gakakkad wrote:Is there any way in which "stand your ground rule " or "castles doctrine " can be applied in Dharuns situation ?
I think the permissions (as indicated by the references to text messages) asked by tyler and granted by ravi address this issue and so its no more a castle but was converted to a whorehouse by now deceased Tyler.gakakkad wrote:^^ There is a case in florida recently posted here. A black guy was passing through a white neighbourhood. A jewish moron shot the black guy dead . Police refused to arrest the jew. because the jew claimed to feel threatened by black guy.
in this case there was a strange looking guy who visited dharuns room. As per castles doctrine , the dorm room can be regarded as dharuns castle. so dharun can claim to feel threatened by the 30 year old guy.as per the doctrine even if dharun had shot the other guy dead ,he could have got away. merely recording clippings is a far lesser offence ..
Whats chakka? The only chakka I know is jackfruit.Satya_anveshi wrote:.....
How's this possible? You mean some WHITE gay people actually said something in favor of a BROWN person? That is impossible.Amber G. wrote:(wrt to Devesh message in previous page) : That's not isolated, there are quite a few in Gay community who has come out and spoken quite articulately that harsh punishment is not only unjust ( the event has already taken one life, and taking another's future will make it more unjust) but will have backlash against the community.
This case has also brought out backlash, and need to amend the knee jerk NJ legislation passed around 2002..
It isn't going to get better. Culturally few in India are either required to be sympathetic to gays or gay sex in public. And here is a young man who was not anti gay by any means being framed by a system that appears to be bending over backwards to allow public sex by homosexuals.Rangudu wrote:Also, it is quite ironic that we see this much anti-gay bigotry in a thread dominated by discussion of wrongful conviction of anti-gay bias.
Small clarification Satyaji. Gender is easily observed and also reported on college application so it is easy to segreagate based on gender while allocating housing. Sexual orientation is not easily observed and also not reported on college application so colleges would not be able to segreagate based on sexual orientation while allocating housing. If and when a student asks to get a separate room the college do look into the case as happened in this case too.Satya_anveshi wrote:...
However, I am amused that a society that segregates males and females in separate units in university..how does it allow straight and gay in the same unit? I am hearing no counter opinions nor clarifying facts on this front.
....
Proving people are born gay would give them wider social acceptance and better protection against discrimination, many gay rights advocates argue. In the last decade, as this "biological" argument has gained momentum, polls find Americans - especially young adults - increasingly tolerant of gays and lesbians. And that's exactly what has groups opposed to homosexuality so concerned. The Family Research Council, a conservative Christian think tank in Washington, D.C., argues in its book Getting It Straight that finding people are born gay "would advance the idea that sexual orientation is an innate characteristic, like race; that homosexuals, like African-Americans, should be legally protected against 'discrimination;' and that disapproval of homosexuality should be as socially stigmatized as racism. However, it is not true."
Some advocates of gay marriage argue that proving sexual orientation is inborn would make it easier to frame the debate as simply a matter of civil rights. That could be true, but then again, freedom of religion enjoyed federal protection long before inborn traits like race and sex.
For much of the 20th century, the dominant thinking connected homosexuality to upbringing. Freud, for instance, speculated that overprotective mothers and distant fathers helped make boys gay. It took the American Psychiatric Association until 1973 to remove "homosexuality" from its manual of mental disorders.
Most reputable studies find the rate of homosexuality in the general population to be 2 to 4 percent, rather than the popular "1 in 10" estimate.
But the clear focus of sexual-orientation research has shifted to biological causes, and there hasn't been much science produced to support the old theories tying homosexuality to upbringing
LeVay, who is gay, says that when he published his study 14 years ago, some gays and lesbians criticized him for doing research that might lead to homosexuality once again being lumped in with diseases and disorders. "If anything, the reverse has happened," says LeVay, who is now 61 and no longer active in the lab. He says the hunt for a biological basis for homosexuality, which involves many researchers who are themselves gay or lesbian, "has contributed to the status of gay people in society."
And now, a large-scale, five-year genetic study of gay brothers is underway in North America. The study received $2.5 million from the National Institutes of Health, which is unusual. Government funders tend to steer clear of sexual orientation research, aware that even small grants are apt to be met with outrage from conservative congressmen looking to make the most of their C-Span face time. Relying on a robust sample of 1,000 gay-brother pairs and the latest advancements in genetic screening, this study promises to bring some clarity to the murky area of what role genes may play in homosexuality.
This accumulating biological evidence, combined with the prospect of more on the horizon, is having an effect. Last month, the Rev. Rob Schenck, a prominent Washington, D.C., evangelical leader, told a large gathering of young evangelicals that he believes homosexuality is not a choice but rather a predisposition, something "deeply rooted" in people.
His message: "If it's inevitable that this scientific evidence is coming, we have to be prepared with a loving response. If we don't have one, we won't have any credibility."
Still, no matter how imperfect these studies are, when you put them all together and examine them closely, the message is clear: While post-birth development may well play a supporting role, the roots of homosexuality, at least in men, appear to be in place by the time a child is born. After spending years sifting through all the available data, British researchers Glenn Wilson and Qazi Rahman come to an even bolder conclusion in their forthcoming book Born Gay: The Psychobiology of Sex Orientation, in which they write: "Sexual orientation is something we are born with and not `acquired' from our social environment."
The remorse should have been expressed in court during the trial and before the jury verdict. The interview will garner him some public sympathy but do nothing to his case, verdict and sentencing. I think he needed a better lawyer who understood what this case represented and the amount of publicity it garnered. The stack was loaded against him before the case went to trial and a good lawyer should have seen these signs.pandyan wrote:First time hearing from Dharun. In this interview, he clearly expressed his remorse, apologized for his mistakes. I always thought this was one piece that was lacking...nobody knew who Dharun was; media always posted stone-faced/rigid looking pictures of Dharun as if he is a person without emotions. Two families are devastated: one kid lost his life, another kid's life is being destroyed.
Please do what you can to support the families.
Rangudu wrote:Shivji,
Culturally not too long ago in India some people used to be lynched for touching the wrong person and widows forced to shave their head and live a life of grief after husband's death.
By your logic, if some Indian kid were to kill a white person and get away with it, that would be a perfect excuse for all Whites to say racism against Indians is ok. Evanjihadis then would be ok to say - 'Some Hindus killed Graham Staines, so let's hate all Hindus', no?
If you put in enough money into research, you will likely find that a lot of behavior which is declared criminal is hard wired from birth. So that is a poor excuse as far as I am concerned. You see medical research into genetics is aimed at either curing genetic problems, or failing that, in the worst cases allowing pregnant women with a fetus that will be born with an incurable illness to take a call on terminating the pregnancy.Satya_anveshi wrote:A bit dated but something showed up right up in my g-search:
"Sexual orientation is something we are born with and not `acquired' from our social environment."
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Defau ... ?id=255614This study examined the relationship between sexual orientation and suicide risk in a population-based sample of adolescents. METHODS: Participants were selected from a cross-sectional, statewide survey of junior and senior public high school students. All males (n = 212) and females (n = 182) who described themselves as bisexual/homosexual were compared with 336 gender-matched heterosexual respondents on three outcome measures: suicidal ideation, intent, and self-reported attempts. Logistic regression analyses were used to examine the association between sexual orientation and outcome measures with adjustment for demographic characteristics. RESULTS: Suicide attempts were reported by 28. 1 % of bisexual/homosexual males, 20.5% of bisexual/homosexual females, 14.5% of heterosexual females, and 4.2% of heterosexual males. For males, but not females, bisexual/homosexual orientation was associated with suicidal intent (odds ratio [OR] = 3.61 95% confidence interval [CI = 1.40, 9.36) and attempts (OR=7.10; 95% CI=3.05, 16.53). CONCLUSIONS: There is evidence of a strong association between suicide risk and bisexuality or homosexuality in males.
http://www.livescience.com/8734-gay-tee ... demic.htmlLONDON - A new study in the United Kingdom has revealed that homosexuals are about 50% more likely to suffer from depression and engage in substance abuse than the rest of the population, reports Health24.com.
After analyzing 25 earlier studies on sexual orientation and mental health, researchers, in a study published in the medical journal BMC Psychiatry, also found that the risk of suicide jumped over 200% if an individual had engaged in a homosexual lifestyle.
These findings strongly support the results of similar studies conducted in the United States, which have unveiled the severe physical and psychological health risks associated with homosexual behavior. Drs. Paul and Kirk Cameron of the Family Research Institute revealed in 2007 that research shows that the lifespan of a homosexual is on average 24 years shorter than that of a heterosexual. As a health threat, even smoking pales in comparison, as studies show smoking can shorten one's life by only 1 to 7 years on average.
Homesexuals need help with a serious problem. Not encouragement by legislation to have public sex.For example, Ciara Thomas, a writer for the website HealthyPlace.com ("America's Mental Health Channel") states that, "For a number of years, researchers have known that one-third of all teenagers who commit suicide are gay. In one sense, this statistic is incredibly shocking...This means that they are 300 percent more likely to kill themselves than heterosexual youth."
It could just as easily be both!Either the defense was really sloppy, or the judge/jury were indeed biased against Ravi.
abhishek_sharma wrote:>> We can come here, make $$$ but still bitch and moan about racism against Indians, all with a straight face.
Fairly poor logic. People get "$$$" as wages. As I said before, it is not an act of charity. Secondly, it does not imply lack of racism. Hitler too helped a few banks/ businesses run by Jews.
"We" are not missing anything here.subodh wrote: Or believeing this is a 'degenrate' society as some are implying - because they have rights for gay people. We miss out on a lot by keeping this so cartoonishly simple.
Can we replace NRIs by equal number of randomly chosen Indians? Probably not. US welcomes *only* highly educated immigrants. Their welcome of 2% highly educated Indians does not allow us to infer anything about their attitude towards all Indians. There was an article in TIME magazine about Indians (written by Stein). Where is it?subodh wrote:The US remains one of the most welcoming societies for immigrants, especially Indians.
Rangudu wrote:Shivji,
Culturally not too long ago in India some people used to be lynched for touching the wrong person and widows forced to shave their head and live a life of grief after husband's death.
By your logic, if some Indian kid were to kill a white person and get away with it, that would be a perfect excuse for all Whites to say racism against Indians is ok. Evanjihadis then would be ok to say - 'Some Hindus killed Graham Staines, so let's hate all Hindus', no?
US has the one of the most socially engineered societies. Since it does not have a long history of tradition this cultural war inside the US is very nascent. They had tried to export this to other countries during the cold war.shiv wrote:
The US deserves to get a bit of that from some Indians, even at the risk of having to face up to other Indians who get upset at criticism of the US. You have your views, I have mine. You think views such as those I have expressed are cartoonishly simple - and they are because the US's way of bullshitting the world about some of its most blatant and biased actions are as cartoonish and simple as that. Only one who needs to depend on the US might be loath to see it that way and put up a stout defence of the US.
Here you go:abhishek_sharma wrote:There was an article in TIME magazine about Indians (written by Stein). Where is it?
In retrospect, I question just how good our schools were if "dot heads" was the best racist insult we could come up with for a group of people whose gods have multiple arms and an elephant nose.
Actually, what Shiv calls "open fly torn shirt" is formally considered a universal fallacy in the academic study of logic and rhetoric. The academic name given to such an argument is tu quoque, or "you do it too." This may be the preferred term to use when engaging non-BRFites, particularly in the West: but for our purposes here, "open fly torn shirt" works just fineramana wrote:
Isn't that the open fly torn shirt argument that Shiv reminds us all the time?
