India-US Strategic News and Discussion

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Sagar G
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Sagar G »

shyamd wrote:Okay - are the Afghan defence forces ready today? No, only the ANSF are doing a decent job. US has been there for a while - its only because of the number of deaths which has changed public opinion back home as well as the economic situation, they are accelerating their withdrawal. Which means that US is not going to deploy siginifcant forces. Both of us can't answer as to whether US forces will have the capability to defend afghanistan as they haven't announced what exactly the plans are yet.
Since both of us don't know what capability Khan is going to maintain in Afghanistan so please stop speculating about a coup by pukistan.

shyamd wrote:Elimination of safe havens is one aspect, but the major aspect is to win in afghanistan and let TSP cease its terror activities at the same time keep our borders free. its hard for you to accept and I understand your moral reasons however, there are no such things as morals in international politics - this is the reality of it.
Elimination of jihadi camps is not just one aspect but a critical one, fencing is not the solution.
What do you constitute as being a win in Afghanistan ?? And what morality are you talking about ?? I have no moral obligations when it comes to dealing with TSP, everything and I mean everything is kosher for me.
shyamd wrote:Indeed its a temprorary solution BUT what will happen if Afghanistan has a powerful army that is sitting on the undefended TSP border? TSP have only one choice left - cease terror and they will have to build all the infrastructure up and make it well protected and post some serious forces. They wouldn't be able to afford a war with 2 inimical nations on both sides.
First you propose that Afghan security forces are not strong enough to stop an imminent coup as soon as american forces leave, now you say that if they have a strong army (which may happen but not in near future) then the jihadi network in TSP will wean away, stop this frequency hopping and make up your mind whether you want to discuss your idea of dealing with TSP based on a strong afghani army or a weak one because you are using both versions as and when it suits your theory. I see that you are still parroting the viewpoint of west of creating a new enemy for them so that they won't hurt us. This again is a temporary solution and cheap western mentality,I for one don't want a temporary solution but a permanent one and that's why I say that we have to deal with TSP militarily because that's the only language they understand.
shyamd wrote:Its well known here on BR and many members have spoken about it. As for your 2nd question on tactical weapons - have you not been following the news lately and why PM has been meeting NCA?
Well then either one version is right since both can't be at the same time. Maybe they had given such go ahead much much prior to Kargil or are you saying that during Kargil itself they gave TSP green flag ??

What tactical nuclear weapon ?? Nasr !!! :rotfl:
If you remember a discussion here had taken place back then when they tested Nasr amidst their claim of possessing "tactical nuclear weapons" and I think it was concluded that they are bluffing about it since they have never tested any tactical nuke to arm Nasr nor they possess the capability to design one (I am taking sub KT device as a tactical nuke weapon though I know their is no set range for the yield so as the weapon to be considered tactical nuclear weapon). And what makes you so sure that India won't pre-empt pukistan ??? NSA a couple of years back had indicated that India's no first use policy had shifted to no first use against non nuclear state, so more than us they should worry about getting vapourised before they can even think of nuking India.

My question still stands what tactical nuclear weapon do they have ??? Firing missiles doesn't mean they possess such weapons.

shyamd wrote:Hahaha... How? No nation possesses the capability yet to identify missiles launched from submarines, and you are talking about me making an illogical argument.... Even land based detection of land launched BMs is pretty tough and needs variety of infrastructure - constellation of satellites and radars.
You make an argument by doing an == between the nuclear powers and TSP then expect me to answer "logically". First of all give solid facts showing that your theory is not just unnecessary dhoti shivering but a very possibility then we will talk about it further.

shyamd wrote:It is true that their economic policies have been bad but the situation is not dire or as dire as you are making it out to be. 6% in this situation is still decent - back in the day 6% was considered good! Keep in mind that we are growing at a lot higher base as well.
It is not just about 6% growth but also about fiscal deficit, falling Rs. and the fear of economy spiralling down further due to GOI inaction accumulated over the years which is why people who understand economy are hammering the GOI.
shyamd wrote:Lol... and TSP said they will go to war with us and were ready for the overt action or OBL type assassination of those involved. They were looking for an excuse. Lets face it, US and TSP are a different story altogether.
They have always said about going to war with India, went into one, then got their asses kicked and then ran to their masters to save them. The same cycle would have repeated back then as well.
shyamd wrote:No such thing as morality in international politics I'm afraid but we have a moral right to develop Afghanistan and help their people. Its an uncomfortable truth but we want to deliver a defeat to TSP there and help the Afghan people and their aspirations.
True no morality in international politics and we must prevent Afghanistan from falling apart by any means necessary.

shyamd wrote:By helping the Afghan people we are achieving our goals of keeping the jihadi's engaged in the north and keeping J&K safe.
For a moment lets assume your theory is right, then please explain to me why all these years terrorists from TSP have attacked not only J&K but also carried out numerous attacks all over India. Jihadis weren't kicked out of Afghanistan recently, so they should have focused only towards Afghanistan and not India according to your theory, so how come all these attacks took place ???
shyamd
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by shyamd »

Sagar G wrote: Since both of us don't know what capability Khan is going to maintain in Afghanistan so please stop speculating about a coup by pukistan.
Speculating? You are saying that TSP is not going to fight on in Afghanistan even though US has 88,000 or so troops there today (and another 50k+ ANA/ANP), you think having 10-15k US troops (latest figures provided in a recent book on Obama's national security policies - I posted the link in the TSP thread) will somehow stop TSP from continuing the fight? Have you seen their capabilities to assassinate well protected govt officials?

Elimination of jihadi camps is not just one aspect but a critical one, fencing is not the solution.
What do you constitute as being a win in Afghanistan ?? And what morality are you talking about ?? I have no moral obligations when it comes to dealing with TSP, everything and I mean everything is kosher for me.
Don't know where you got fencing from - i have suggested no such thing.

I constitute survival of an economically viable govt in Kabul with a police/military control throughout Afghanistan as a win. Morality with respect to Afghan people and their aspirations.
First you propose that Afghan security forces are not strong enough to stop an imminent coup as soon as american forces leave, now you say that if they have a strong army (which may happen but not in near future) then the jihadi network in TSP will wean away, stop this frequency hopping and make up your mind whether you want to discuss your idea of dealing with TSP based on a strong afghani army or a weak one because you are using both versions as and when it suits your theory. I see that you are still parroting the viewpoint of west of creating a new enemy for them so that they won't hurt us. This again is a temporary solution and cheap western mentality,I for one don't want a temporary solution but a permanent one and that's why I say that we have to deal with TSP militarily because that's the only language they understand.
:roll: What I have said is pretty clear - The Afghan forces must SURVIVE the coup attempts and if they do and they have the planned 300,000 trained soldiers and these troops are effectively able to control the vast parts of afghanistan, then TSP will have no choice but to cease terror as a tool or at least reduce it.

Their forces are unlikely to be ready to control and fight in vast parts of Afghanistan in the current state - only the AN Spec Forces seem fairly capable currently. We are going to train 25,000 men a year and help them achieve the targets set and also provide them the means to defend themselves - this includes a variety of military equipment.

As for coup prevention - TSP have demonstrated time and time again that they can pull it off and are signalling this to US. So a number of measures need to be put in place to prevent this from occurring - there is no clarity yet on what the US is leaving behind in Afghanistan - all they know is they want to prevent a coup from occurring, but the debate internally is still continuing so lets see, if the US does not we may have to do some of the lifting along with international community.

I hope this is clear.
Well then either one version is right since both can't be at the same time. Maybe they had given such go ahead much much prior to Kargil or are you saying that during Kargil itself they gave TSP green flag ??
Yes they gave green flag.

What tactical nuclear weapon ?? Nasr !!! :rotfl:
If you remember a discussion here had taken place back then when they tested Nasr amidst their claim of possessing "tactical nuclear weapons" and I think it was concluded that they are bluffing about it since they have never tested any tactical nuke to arm Nasr nor they possess the capability to design one (I am taking sub KT device as a tactical nuke weapon though I know their is no set range for the yield so as the weapon to be considered tactical nuclear weapon). And what makes you so sure that India won't pre-empt pukistan ??? NSA a couple of years back had indicated that India's no first use policy had shifted to no first use against non nuclear state, so more than us they should worry about getting vapourised before they can even think of nuking India.
TSP has increased the number of warheads - majority of the recent additions are tactical supposedly. Anyway, lets say they are bluffing. TSP are signalling that if India enters into TSP territory and make significant gains of territory - they will use nukes.

Pre-emption - could happen. But whole point is we don't want to be in such a position anyway where we are in a nuclear war - if thats what we wanted we would have crossed the LoC in Kargil.

You make an argument by doing an == between the nuclear powers and TSP then expect me to answer "logically". First of all give solid facts showing that your theory is not just unnecessary dhoti shivering but a very possibility then we will talk about it further.
US doesnt want to be in a nuclear war and doesn't think invasion of TSP is the best idea - otherwise they would have done that by now - Bruce Riedel who advised Obama on how to deal with TSP confirmed that.

There is no such system in place to detect nation of submarine that launches SLBM period. Nothing further to add.
It is not just about 6% growth but also about fiscal deficit, falling Rs. and the fear of economy spiralling down further due to GOI inaction accumulated over the years which is why people who understand economy are hammering the GOI.
Lol - just a few years ago when they were raising petrol prices opposition went on a march all over the country blaming GoI for high fuel prices when oil was around $120 or so at the time. They get blamed if they do something. But now their hand will be forced, they will have to implement some reforms.

Now that ruppee has weakened it means a rebalance can take place, exports (manufacturing and service sector) will increase once again as a result of weak ruppee - its the problem in europe at the moment, euro will not devalue to rebalance and resolve some of the issues that PIIGS are facing. Oil prices will head lower soon and you will see that. There is a steep drop off in demand and the economy is even worse in PRC and in other states.
They have always said about going to war with India, went into one, then got their asses kicked and then ran to their masters to save them. The same cycle would have repeated back then as well.
Reality is a lot more complicated than this and situation is different in each time.
For a moment lets assume your theory is right, then please explain to me why all these years terrorists from TSP have attacked not only J&K but also carried out numerous attacks all over India. Jihadis weren't kicked out of Afghanistan recently, so they should have focused only towards Afghanistan and not India according to your theory, so how come all these attacks took place ???
Terror in J&K are at record lows and have been steadily decreasing since TSP decided to fight in afPak. Just this year its high summer and hardly many attacks/distrubances reported - 1 or 2 grenade attacks recently. Before we used to have around 3-4k incidents in a year. So the improvement is quite drastic.
As for rest of India attacks - Our intel agencies have always said that TSP establishment are under pressure and want to create some sort of an attack to prove a point and say that yes we are still here and we can hit you. IM was one of the tools they were using to achieve that.
The TSP jihadi's focus is J&K primarily because that is the easiest for them to exploit due to the borders, accessibility, terrain and demographics/politics.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Johann »

Kabul fell to the Mujaheddin in 1992 because the Soviets were eager to forget about Afghanistan and cut funding to Najibullah, while the Saudis were still pumping money into the ISI and the Afghan groups.

It was the same thing in 1996 when the Taliban overran Kabul - the GCC aid was significantly higher than that of Iran, Russia, India, and covert limited CIA support to Massood.

Is Pakistan in a position to outspend all other interested anti-Taliban parties involved with Afghanistan? Despite the US withdrawal of conventional forces that seems very unlikely post 9/11 and 7/7 and all of that.

At the end of the day Pashtuns on both sides of the border will turn to the government of the country that offers a marginally higher level of development and security. There's much to gain from making sure that's Afghanistan rather than Pakistan as it is currently. That is yet another reason why Pakistan has so much to gain from sabotaging development in Afghanistan.

Ultimately a lot of this boils down to helping Afghanistan build an effective state machinery that can not only exercise power but retain the respect of the population. This is where building an All-Afghanistan Army and all All-Afghanistan civil service is key, and this will be a multi, multi decade commitment.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ShauryaT »

Johann wrote: Ultimately a lot of this boils down to helping Afghanistan build an effective state machinery that can not only exercise power but retain the respect of the population. This is where building an All-Afghanistan Army and all All-Afghanistan civil service is key, and this will be a multi, multi decade commitment.
And India has much to gain and ENSURE that Afghanistan remains stable and strong and builds Pahtun allies.

Pakistan strategic depth is smoke screen to hide their fears of Pashtun nationalism. This part of the Kautilya's "bheda" has to be part of our action plan. co-option and conciliation alone will not do.
Sagar G
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Sagar G »

shyamd wrote:Speculating? You are saying that TSP is not going to fight on in Afghanistan even though US has 88,000 or so troops there today (and another 50k+ ANA/ANP), you think having 10-15k US troops (latest figures provided in a recent book on Obama's national security policies - I posted the link in the TSP thread) will somehow stop TSP from continuing the fight? Have you seen their capabilities to assassinate well protected govt officials?
I have said before TSP can fight as much as it likes it won't be able to do a coup in Afghanistan cause it hurts unkils interest and as I pointed out before unkils interests overrides everybody else's interests (from unkils pov). So unless unkil doesn't want taliban to be back in power TSP won't be able to do that.
shyamd wrote:Don't know where you got fencing from - i have suggested no such thing.
But your posts after posts of "escalating" in Afghanistan so that jihadis don't target India suggest that only.
shyamd wrote: :roll: What I have said is pretty clear - The Afghan forces must SURVIVE the coup attempts and if they do and they have the planned 300,000 trained soldiers and these troops are effectively able to control the vast parts of afghanistan, then TSP will have no choice but to cease terror as a tool or at least reduce it.
W.r.t. Afghanistan only doesn't mean that they will dismantle India specific jihadi network and that's why India needs to strike them.

shyamd wrote:As for coup prevention - TSP have demonstrated time and time again that they can pull it off and are signalling this to US.
US has also signalled amply that it doesn't want that to happen and is willing to go the extra mile to prevent that ( the recent revelation of US and Afghani commandos willingness to take joint ops to strike terrorist camps in TSP shows the same among other things) from happening, so their lies in rest TSP's dream of carrying out a coup post US's exit in rest.
shyamd wrote:So a number of measures need to be put in place to prevent this from occurring - there is no clarity yet on what the US is leaving behind in Afghanistan - all they know is they want to prevent a coup from occurring, but the debate internally is still continuing so lets see, if the US does not we may have to do some of the lifting along with international community.

I hope this is clear.
We are already doing the lifting as can be seen by the US's engagement of GOI and asking us to do more in Afghanistan (which has different meaning altogether but let's not go into that). Among all these chaos we can see a stable democratically elected government doing it's full term (something which TSPians have wet dreams about :rotfl: ) which shows the resolve of Afghani people towards democracy. So all in all you can lay your fear of TSP pulling out a coup post US forces partial exit to rest.
shyamd wrote:Yes they gave green flag.
During Kargil !!! Please point out such info to me because this is the first time I'am hearing this claim.
shyamd wrote:TSP has increased the number of warheads - majority of the recent additions are tactical supposedly. Anyway, lets say they are bluffing. TSP are signalling that if India enters into TSP territory and make significant gains of territory - they will use nukes.
You are making a pretty big assumption their without an iota of evidence regarding their possession of tactical nuke and India has made it very clear that any form of nuke attack on India or it's forces anywhere will be retaliated by inflicting unacceptable damage to aggressor state. So pakis better watch out whether they want to risk their existence by nuking India with any kind of nuclear device.
If TSP is signalling such we must signal back that any Indian advancement into puki territory will be undertaken only after undertaking pre-empting strikes and POK is not puki territory. But as we know that India's advancement into POK might want them to nuke us so the same logic must be used before going into POK.
shyamd wrote:Pre-emption - could happen. But whole point is we don't want to be in such a position anyway where we are in a nuclear war - if thats what we wanted we would have crossed the LoC in Kargil.
Pre-emption should happen if India feels a nuclear strike is imminent, no questions asked. Pukistan has been also beating their chest about carrying nuke strike against India but haven't done so even when they were pretty close to doing so in Kargil cause they know they would simply cease to exist if they do that and no matter how much macho they try and show themselves to be at the end of the day pukis wouldn't want to stop existing altogether.

shyamd wrote:US doesnt want to be in a nuclear war and doesn't think invasion of TSP is the best idea - otherwise they would have done that by now - Bruce Riedel who advised Obama on how to deal with TSP confirmed that.
Nobody wants a nation like TSP to be their headache, no surprising policy here from unkil and US doesn't nuke Pakistan because it has been in a GUBO position post 9/11 dhamki so till now unkil is pretty sure that TSPs nuke doesn't threaten it (not the case with India hence need to be dealt with differently). Let Pakistan pursue a missile programme which will put khanland in it's range then we you will see how fast unkil uses its nuke on TSP.

shyamd wrote:Lol - just a few years ago when they were raising petrol prices opposition went on a march all over the country blaming GoI for high fuel prices when oil was around $120 or so at the time. They get blamed if they do something. But now their hand will be forced, they will have to implement some reforms.

Now that ruppee has weakened it means a rebalance can take place, exports (manufacturing and service sector) will increase once again as a result of weak ruppee - its the problem in europe at the moment, euro will not devalue to rebalance and resolve some of the issues that PIIGS are facing. Oil prices will head lower soon and you will see that. There is a steep drop off in demand and the economy is even worse in PRC and in other states.
The same GOI also doesn't drop down the crude prices when the crude prices in the international market comes down neither it allows desi oil companies to increase production from operating oil fields here and what is happening to economy of PRC is no excuse for taking down your economy but lets leave this discussion since this is not the appropriate thread.

shyamd wrote:Reality is a lot more complicated than this and situation is different in each time.
Another excuse to hide inaction, doesn't help an iota in serving Indian interest.

shyamd wrote:Terror in J&K are at record lows and have been steadily decreasing since TSP decided to fight in afPak.
Just this year its high summer and hardly many attacks/distrubances reported - 1 or 2 grenade attacks recently. Before we used to have around 3-4k incidents in a year. So the improvement is quite drastic.
You are boss a master in producing chankian theories out of thin air, our guys are dying out their to reduce terrorism and you simply overlook that to thrust your theory down others throat. So all these reduced jihadi activity is not due to IA's effort but because we are simply "escalating" in Afghanistan :roll:

Nothing sensible to add here since I don't see the "sense" here.

shyamd wrote:As for rest of India attacks - Our intel agencies have always said that TSP establishment are under pressure and want to create some sort of an attack to prove a point and say that yes we are still here and we can hit you. IM was one of the tools they were using to achieve that.
The TSP jihadi's focus is J&K primarily because that is the easiest for them to exploit due to the borders, accessibility, terrain and demographics/politics.
But still they are attacking which only shows that they are very capable to maintain a two front jihadi network and that's why I have been saying we must strike terrorist safe havens in TSP to protect Indian interests. When we start doing so at one point they won't be remaining with any terrorist network to threaten India with.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Lilo »

Why fears of a foreign hand are real

Arun Kumar

There are enough reasons to suspect that companies overseas influence Indian politics

Pranab Mukherjee is likely to be India’s next President. It seemed to be touch and go until the tide turned in his favour. It has been suggested that the corporates swung it for him not because he is one of the most seasoned Indian politicians but because they wanted him out of the Ministry of Finance. He has acted tough on retrospective taxation and GAAR – the measures in his recent budget to tackle black income generation. But it would not be surprising if the real pressure was from foreign shores. Indian corporates are sensitive to what their foreign counterparts think. So is our political leadership. Britain and Netherlands exerted strong influence on the Vodafone case. How much of our politics is being determined by such pressures?

Pressure on polity

Several recent events testify that pressure is certainly being exerted on the polity: Hillary Clinton’s visit to India to influence the government’s policies on trade with Iran and on FDI in retail, the S&P downgrade of India, the Aircel Maxis deal. There are also less visible cases of foreign pressure as in defence purchases (the British were upset at our rejection of the Eurofighter), energy sector investments (oil, gas and nuclear), opening of markets and so on.

The Bofors scam has had a continuing impact on politics since 1987. Sten Lindstrom, the former head of the Swedish police who led the investigations into the Bofors-India howitzer deal, recently underlined that there was conclusive evidence that Ottavio Quattarocchi, a close friend of the Nehru-Gandhi family, was one of the recipients of kickbacks. His role in swinging the Bofors deal at the last minute was known. It is not in doubt that payoffs were made or that the Bofors guns are good. The only unsettled issue is who got the money.

That Mr. Quattrochi had powerful friends was confirmed when he was allowed to escape the country during the Congress rule. The case was apparently deliberately spoilt by the investigative agencies, including the CBI and, therefore, lost in the courts — in Malaysia, Britain and Argentina. The red corner notice against him “could not be executed” since our police agencies could not “find” him even though journalists could interview him.

Evidence points to a high level cover up. M.S. Solanki, then the External Affairs Minister, sacrificed his Cabinet berth rather than reveal what he wrote in the paper he passed on to the Swiss counterpart at a meeting. At that point of time, the Swiss bank accounts were being investigated by the Indian agencies to trace the Bofors payoff trail. Could such a sacrifice of a political career be for an ordinary leader?

Who took the money even if not Rajiv Gandhi and why did the investigative agencies spoil the case? Investigations are essential to clear the air about these questions. A former Minister in the Prime Minister’s Office mentioned to this author in an interview on the black economy that when he went with the Bofors file to the then Prime Minister, he was told to close the file as it could cause a threat to his life. No wonder, none of the non-Congress Prime Ministers changed the course of investigations to bring them on track (What is this threat on life that even the PM of India cannot escape?) and none of the Congress Prime Ministers has wanted the truth to come out.

Kickbacks are common globally. Sweden is one of the least corrupt countries in the world but its corporations have bribed to get contracts as the Bofors case shows. U.S.-based multinational corporations have resorted to bribes in spite of their being illegal under that country’s law. Recently, Walmart admitted to having bribed its way through in Mexico. When the top management learnt of it, rather than exposing corruption, the internal probe was closed. The same Walmart has been trying to enter India. Ms Clinton’s agenda included “persuading” India to open its doors to foreign retail. The only Chief Minister she visited was Mamata Banerjee, the important UPA partner opposing FDI in retail. It is reminiscent of Henry Kissinger and the Secretaries of Energy and Defence flying to India to lobby for Enron in the mid-1990s. Enron admitted to spending $60 million in India, to “educate” policymakers.

It is not just a few MNCs that indulge in corruption or use their governments to apply pressure on policies. MNC banks are known to help Indians take their capital out of India. UBS bank, the largest Swiss bank, was fined $750 million by the U.S. for helping its citizens to keep secret bank accounts. The same UBS bank was allowed entry into India in spite of its known role; was it a reward for helping some powerful people?

Executives of Siemens, a supposedly honest MNC and an important player in India, were indicted in the U.S. in December 2011 for bribery in Argentina. Investigations revealed that the company also made illegal payments to the tune of $1.4 billion from 2001 to 2007 in Bangladesh, China, Russia, Venezuela and other countries. These were often routed via consultants. The company paid fines and fees of $1.6 billion to the U.S. and German governments for the bribes it paid across the globe.

Siemens started bribing soon after the end of World War II to get contracts under the Marshall Plan which were mostly going to the Americans. Since its prosecution, Siemens claims to have appointed Compliance Officers to check bribery. But, with the prevalence of a high degree of illegality internationally, can one company be honest while others are not? How would it win contracts when those in charge expect to be bribed? Since non-transparent processes are set up, at every step, decisions need to be influenced, as seen in the Bofors case or the 2G spectrum allocation.

The Vodafone case is significant. MNCs (Indian and foreign) have used tax havens and tax planning to avoid paying taxes in India. They create a web of holdings to hide the identity of the real owners of a company or who it is being transferred to. In 1985, in the Mcdowell case, the Supreme Court bench observed, “Colourable devices cannot be part of tax planning and it is wrong to encourage or entertain the belief that it is honourable to avoid the payment of tax by resorting to dubious methods”. This judgment was overturned in 2003 in Union of India vs Azadi Bachao Andolan on the use of the Mauritius route to avoid paying tax in India. Vodafone took advantage of this judgment to successfully argue against having to pay capital gains tax in India on transfer of a company in a tax haven which owned the Indian assets. Mr. Mukherjee was trying to recover lost ground.

Dominant interests

Indian policies have been subject to foreign pressures since the days of the Cold War in the 1950s. But until the mid-1980s, the decisions were accepted as being in the “long-term national interest.” There were accusations in the procurement of the Jaguar aircraft also but these did not create the furore that the Bofors scam did. Since the late 1980s, as in the case of Bofors or the new economic policies in 1991 or the Indo-U.S. nuclear deal, sectional or individual interests have become dominant. These have played havoc with national politics. Pressures and counter pressures are mounted through political parties and their leaders and big business.

The lesson is that foreign pressures tend to damage processes that national politics cannot undo. The public is left bewildered by the goings on, as in the present case of selection of the presidential candidate.

(The writer is Chairperson, Centre for Economic Studies and Planning, School of Social Sciences, Jawaharlal Nehru University. Email: arunkumar1000@hotmail.com)
In a first since economic liberalisation of 1990s, these issues are again being highlighted in the mainstream.
And as suspected hillary came for pushing through FDI in retail.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by paramu »

Sanku wrote:Cowardice by another name is still cowardice.

I am glad that you had the honesty to call out the real reason for your statement.

I unfortunately do not agree that cowardice lets you keep your assets, those that payajama shiver loose their payajamas soon enough.

Appeasement has never made problems go away.
Hot headed bravado is stupidity. There is no reward for not understanding the enemy (in this case a group of enemies) and going for a fight. What is the outcome if you make a mistake in judgement? Veeramruthyu? or martyrdom? They are for individuals and not for nations or civilizations. Once a civilization/nation is defeated, they will be destroyed or castrated forever.

Our ancestors did fight the invaders, and many accepted humiliation to keep the civilization alive to fight another day. You can not say that only former was right. First and formost goal is to keep it alive and next is to fight others at a time chosen by us. After independence, except for China war, we didn't lose anything even though we were shivering in the dhoti all the time.
Sanku
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Sanku »

paramu wrote:. After independence, except for China war, we didn't lose anything even though we were shivering in the dhoti all the time.
I am sorry I do not think that post Independence behavior was characterized by the qualities you mention. For the time of Sardar Patel to LBS to IG to even RG (and PVNR and ABV are obvious choices) -- have faced difficult situations, sometimes with entire "UN" as you put it arrayed against them.

LBS did not quail when US cut off food supplies to a constrained India.
IG did not quail with 7th fleet and Enterprise in Bay of Bengal.
ABV went for Shakti pradarshan knowing fully well the outcome.
RG did a major ungli in US musharraff when he went into SL.

Apart from Man mohan whose record in serving Indian intrests has been in general stellar -- none of the previous PMs including such folks like M Desai and Chandrashekhar showed any dhoti shivering, and all wore dhoti (expect IG of course) -- however payajama shivering currently on display is certainly making us weak, and making us lose out on multiple opportunities that present themselves to assert ourselves.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by abhischekcc »

>>RG did a major ungli in US musharraff when he went into SL.

I disagree.

Sending IA to SL was part and parcel of US strategy of tying it down so that munna could feel safe.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Sanku »

abhischekcc wrote:>>RG did a major ungli in US musharraff when he went into SL.

I disagree.

Sending IA to SL was part and parcel of US strategy of tying it down so that munna could feel safe.
Intresting perspective, but the IPKF and the LTTE saga, with the overt support for Terrorists from the US and Norway combine, finally broke the connection between US and SL.

A far cry from the time when SL would consider hosting US fleets and refueling for Pakis during wars with India.

All in all a good outcome -- I think.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by shyamd »

Pentagon’s New India Focus
Posted on June 26, 2012

America’s great plans for India, and why New Delhi’s jumpy

By Syed Nazakat in Delhi

US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta is a politician by profession and a military conjurer by necessity. He served briefly in the military, half a century ago, but his reputation has been built, almost entirely, in politics. For 16 years, he was the Democratic Congressman from his hometown, Monterey in California. Perhaps it was there that he sawIndia emerging. California was home to Gobind Behari Lal, the first Indian American to win the Pulitzer Prize; Bhagat S. Thind, the first Indian American to serve in the US Army, and Dalip S. Saund, the first Congressman of South Asian descent. Then there were the thousands of Indian immigrants inSilicon Valley.

Today, as the US is reviewing its defence policy after a decade of war in Iraq and Afghanistan, India has become, in Panetta’s own words, its strategic priority. Panetta’s forthcoming visit toIndia, his first as defence secretary, is part of Pentagon’s new policy to seek closer defence ties withIndia. Significantly, the visit comes just a week before the India-US strategic dialogue in Washington,D.C.

“This [India-US] partnership is top priority for theUSdepartment of defence,” George Little, assistant secretary of defence for public affairs, told THE WEEK, before Panetta’s visit was officially announced. “In just one decade, there has been a rapid transformation of the US-India defence relationship into a strategic partnership between two of the pre-eminent security powers inAsia.” During his two-day visit, starting June 6, Panetta will meet Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, Defence Minister A.K. Antony and National Security Adviser Shivshankar Menon.

Panetta knows the complexities of the US-India relationship. The paths converged first after 9/11, and then the nuclear deal became the fulcrum of the changed relationship, though the process was politically painful. Today, the US identifies Indiaas a long-term strategic partner; President Barack Obama famously described it as one of the defining partnerships of the 21st century.

Dr Amer Latif, former director for south Asian affairs at Pentagon, said, “The military ties have developed into one of the most important and robust aspects of the US-India bilateral relationship. The priority towardsIndiawas overdue.”

The US has identified some key areas for cooperation, such as homeland security, intelligence sharing, a joint working group on counter-terrorism, computer emergency response teams and a range of military engagements. To wooIndia, theUShas removed laboratories of the Defence Research and Development Organisation from the entity list. So, the DRDO can almost freely procure weapons systems from theUS, though a control regime still exits.

THE WEEK has learnt that, at a recently held defence policy group meet inDelhi, Jim Miller, Panetta’s close aide and Pentagon’s chief policy maker, proposed closer operational engagement with the Indian military. The US has proposed joint military planning exercises up to brigade level with the Indian Army and has askedIndiato place a senior liaison officer with the US Central Command and US Pacific Command.

As DPG meetings shun headline-grabbing rhetoric, no one, except those in the defence strategy network, paid attention to Miller’s words. “The US looks at India as an important strategic partner in the region as well as as a big and unexploited market,” said Jayadeva Ranade, former additional secretary, Research & Analysis Wing, who had a diplomatic posting in Washington, D.C. “Strategically, in the region, it would like to draw India into a partnership,” he said. “It realises that India would recoil at any suggestion of an alliance, which helps further the US strategic agenda, including retarding China from emerging either as a potent threat or as a rival to US strategic interests.”

The US Pacific Command wanted to have joint operations with the Indian Navy in humanitarian and disaster relief missions. Despite repeated American requests since 2008,Indiahas been reluctant. A senior Indian defence ministry official said thoughIndiawas ready to boost defence cooperation with theUS, it was unwilling to ink operational military pacts. This time, Panetta may seek fresh discussions on the three pending military pacts—the Logistics Support Agreement (LSA), Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-Spatial Cooperation (BECA).

The US has been arguing that CISMOA and BECA guarantee the use of US-made aircraft and communications systems before they hit the market. It would also give India access to sensitive C4ISR technology and increase the interoperability of Indian and American forces during joint exercises and missions.India, on the other hand, thinks the agreement is intrusive and that theUSwould use it to examine Indian equipment under the guise of interoperability.

More than CISMOA and BECA, it is the LSA on which both countries have sharp differences. The LSA forIndiais designed to give Indian and US ships and aircraft access to each other’s facilities, such as ports and airfields, for refuelling and refurbishment through a barter system. But many in the defence and political establishment suspect that the LSA will provide bases to theUSmilitary, turningIndiainto a subordinate ally.

And, the list of contentious issues is not limited to the military agreements. The US military aid to Pakistan, cooperation withIran, the use of military to topple regimes inWest Asiaand nuclear disarmament are some of the other issues. “Indiais cautious about developing operational cooperation with the US because of its political implications, both in terms of domestic politics and India’s external ties,” said Kanwal Sibal, former foreign secretary. “Indiawants to develop broad-based, mutually beneficial relations with various global power centres rather than being seen as excessively leaning towards one power centre.”

So sensitive isIndiathat an off-the-cuff remark made by the US Pacific Command commander Admiral Robert F. Willard, about the presence of US Special Forces inIndia, was raised in Parliament. Antony had to reassure Parliament on May 7 that the “US has neither sought nor has the government of India approved stationing of US Special Forces personnel in any capacity in India.”

Within the defence ministry, there is growing consensus that it is inIndia’s interest, too, to forge a close defence partnership with theUS. The Indian Navy has benefited from the Malabar exercises with the US Navy.Indiahas been conducting numerous naval exercises with theUS, and, today, the exercise is no more limited to boarding operations.

This year, both navies were armed with guided-missile cruisers, destroyers and submarines during the 10-day long exercise in theBay of Bengal. Air defence and anti-submarine warfare was part of the exercise. TheUSfleet included the USS Carl Vinson, the Nimitz class supercarrier which carried Osama bin Laden’s body to be buried at sea.Indiaand theUShave organised over 50 military exercises in the last seven years, most of them aimed at building anti-terrorism and counter insurgency capability. With no other country has the Indian military engaged in so many joint exercises. The push in the defence trade is also a sign of growing trust and partnership.

India’s defence trade with theUShas risen from virtually nil a decade ago to nearly $9 billion today. Since 2002, India has signed more than 20 deals for defence articles and services such as amphibious transport ship INS Jalashwa, UH-3H helicopters worth $92.5 million, Lockheed Martin C-130J aircraft worth $962 million (the first US military aircraft sale to India in half a century), P-8I maritime reconnaissance aircraft worth $2.1 billion, Harpoon Block-II anti-ship missiles for $170 million and C-17 Globemaster-III strategic airlift aircraft worth $4.1 billion.

More recently, the defence ministry has cleared procurement of 145 ultra-light howitzers worth $647 million for deployment on the China border. The M777, the lightest 155mm artillery gun ever, will be the first such gun to enter service with the Indian Army after the Bofors guns 27 years ago. Negotiations are now being finalised for acquiring six more C-130J, four more P-8I aircraft, Javelin anti-tank guided missiles, Jaguar aircraft engine upgrades and as well as AH-64D attack helicopters.

“Defence cooperation is not just about sales, it is about creating new linkages between our technology and business sectors,” Geoffrey R. Pyatt, principal deputy assistant secretary, bureau of south and central Asian affairs at the state department, told reporters in Washington, D.C. “Our scientists and military personnel are increasingly asking not only what they can buy, but what they can co-produce and co-develop.”

At present, the technology cooperation between India and the US is mainly in collaborative projects like naval materials, command and control technologies and material search for aeronautics. “The DRDO and theUS, at present, are not pursuing the development of any hi-technology weapons platforms,” said Gopal Bhushan, director (international cooperation), DRDO. “However, both sides are keen to gradually co-design and co-develop some systems which have strategic relevance to both countries.”

Three ventures in Hyderabad show how the defence relationship is blossoming. Some 48km from the city,USmultinational DuPont, a leading provider of armour, has an integrated ballistics facility. The first such DuPont facility inAsia, it will develop and test protective gear for Indian defence and security forces. Aviation giant Lockheed Martin and Tata have a joint venture that makes aerostructure parts for C-130 aircraft. Mahindra & Mahindra has a joint venture withUScommunications equipment major Telephonics Corporation to produce radars, surveillance systems and communication solutions.

The Pentagon’s shift towardsIndiacomes amid increasing concern in theUSoverChina’s strategic aims, as it is investing in newer and better weapons, missile defence systems, submarines, an aircraft carrier and the development of a stealth fighter jet.

India, as a deterrence effort, is building roads, infrastructure and military capability along theChinaborder.Indiahas also deployed its front-line fighter aircraft Sukhoi Su-30MKIs in forward airbases, and has raised two Mountain Divisions there.

Former national security adviser Brajesh Mishra said that a US-India strategic partnership, though feasible, would take some time to mature and would need an organic change in the bureaucracies of both countries. And, he had a word of caution: “The Chinese are extremely worried about the growing Indo-US strategic partnership, which is necessary to safeguard our national security. The closerIndiaand theUScome, the more hostile the Chinese attitude towards India would be.”

Before his India visit, Panetta hostedChina’s Defence Minister Liang Guanglie. It was the first visit to Washington by a Chinese defence minister in nine years.Chinais expected to figure prominently in Panetta’s talks inDelhi. There will also be discussions on Afghanistan, where theUSis winding down the war. Both India and theUS have signed strategic partnership withAfghanistanand the intelligence agencies of both countries are working closely onAfghanistan, though no one wants to talk about this.

Panetta, like many in the Indian defence establishment, agrees that Indian and US interests converge and collide on terrorism, China and uncertainties about the end-game in Afghanistan, in particular the deal with the Taliban brokered by Pakistan. The agreement, however, is to build a long-term relationship which will give options in the event of fundamentalists taking over the Af-Pak region, or a turn for worse on the China front. Neither of these developments is likely, but insurance policies are worth having anyway.

BOX

Pentagon’s new military strategy

On January 5, 2012, President Barack Obama unveiledAmerica’s new strategic document at the Pentagon. It outlined the country’s defence and strategic priorities in 21st century. The gist:

Reduce ground forces inEuropeand elsewhere. Make the military smaller and more diffused.

Beef up deployments and naval facilities in Asia-Pacific. Begin with stationing 2,500 Marines inAustralia.

Long-term strategic partnership withIndia, to support its ability to provide security in the broaderIndian Oceanregion.

Contain China. Have greater clarity of its strategic intentions.

Defeat al-Qaeda and preventAfghanistanfrom ever being a haven for them again.

Move away from land invasions and ground occupations.

Interview of Dr. Amer Latif

Sometimes Pentagon misunderstands India’s foreign policy aims

Within the Pentagon, Dr Amer Latif is known as one of the best strategists onIndia. Formerly director in the office of the undersecretary of defence for policy, he was a part of the team which formulatedUSdefence policy onIndiaand advised both the secretary and deputy secretary of defence on how to build a close defence partnership withIndia. He was earlier deputy director of operations at the Joint Warfare Analysis Center, Virginia. At present, Dr. Amer is a visiting fellow with the Wadhwani Chair in U.S. India Policy Studies at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Excerpts from an interview:

What is a common misconception in the Pentagon about India?

Sometimes in the US, in Pentagon as well as in state department and the Capitol Hill, people misunderstandIndia’s foreign policy aims. After the civil nuclear deal the people [in theUSadministration] thought the deal is going to open number of cooperations in other areas. I think people need to understand that the civil-nuclear deal was one initiative, a one area of cooperation and that does not mean thatIndiawill change the whole foreign policy. There is no sort of broad-brush approach to Indian foreign policy. Each decision is taken in keeping in viewIndia’s interest first. That is why the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft deal should not have frustrated us. The decision was taken byIndiaon merit and its operational requirement.

Why has India’s strategic importance suddenly increased for the US?

In the years to come, as Indian military capacity grows, and theUSis facing decreasing defence budgets, it is going to look for capable partners that can provide security inAsia.Indiawas one of the few countries which were mentioned in the recently released strategic document. Long-standing Asian allies such asAustralia,Japan,Koreaand others were lumped under the label of existing alliances, butIndiawas singled out and identified as a key partner country.

How do you see the prospect of Indo-US defence relationship?

The prospects of the relationship are tremendous. We are two large democracies with common interests in important issues. We both stand for democracy, stability in the region and inAfghanistanand how to deal with risingChina. InWashington, we expect that, as big democracies,Indiaand theUSare going to disagree at certain issues at certain times. We had a different point of view onLibyaandIran. But what is important is that we do agree on the policy outcome. This is going to be a very important relationship of the 21st century.

Why has India’s strategic importance suddenly increased for the US?

In the years to come, as Indian military capacity grows, and theUSis facing decreasing defence budgets, it is going to look for capable partners that can provide security inAsia.Indiawas one of the few countries which were mentioned in the recently released strategic document. Long-standing Asian allies such asAustralia,Japan,Koreaand others were lumped under the label of existing alliances, butIndiawas singled out and identified as a key partner country.

What are the areas where Pentagon is keen to strengthen its ties with India?

The ties are going to be more widespread and strong, particularly in the maritime area. FromWashington’s perspective, they would like to have a seamless relationship with Indian military. We want to have interoperability between our forces. We want secure communication between our defence forces. But there is reluctance on Indian behalf to sign such agreement.

(THE WEEK, June 10, 2012)
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by pentaiah »

After the 1998 shakti series the CIA and GOTUS made s public commitment in testimony that lot more attention would be paid to India to destabilize and get into US orbit.

It all started with the demise of SU when one by one of the NAM countries were targeted Yugoslavia, Indonesia, Afro nations were one by one weaned away or weakend away...

Now even the cabinet ministers are scared of US intervention or seek intervention, HC parleys with Mamata comes to mind
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by RajeshA »

Johann,

Just saw your post about outspending Pakistan in Afghanistan.

I think it is not simply a question of outspending, but one of outterrorizing Pakistan. The day more Paki Army people are killed for every Afghan killed by the Taliban, there will be peace in Afghanistan as well.

Afghans just need to kill more Pakis.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by pentaiah »

In the 60s there was a movie named" The Russians are coming, The Russians are coming"

Now it's " The Americans are coming The Americans are coming"

The TSPA is funded promted and sustained by the American tax payers so the question of Afghans and Americans taking on TSPA is as much a myth as made in TSP bomb.
It would be a dream come true if
AARP ( American and Afghan Repulsion of Pakistan) takes the battle into TSPA barracks
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by JE Menon »

>>Afghans just need to kill more Pakis

I agree totally. Outspending is important too, but fortunately that does not take much given what the Pak's capabilities are on that front.
What is needed though is a lot more overt aggression on the part of the US - verbal and military - and a lot more covert aggression on the part of India. Don't worry tooooo much about the latter though. No one is going to advertise anything. MMS is a weak PoS is a good line to maintain. I had a long chat late last year or early this year (can't remember with certainty) with a chap who was in East Timor and then spent a long time in Afghanistan over the last decade. A little probing left me quite satisfied, though he gave away nothing. Our guy. Foreign service.

What Pakistan's military needs is punishment, but not punishment as in a kicking on their western borders or that sort of stuff. They need that too of course, but what they really need is personal punishment. Pain that the high-ranking chappies will feel, along with their families, in their pockets. Remove their options to travel. Issue notices. Reduce their scope for holidays and kids education to just China and North Korea. Stuff like that. And that's just for starters...
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by RajeshA »

JE Menon saar,

once I wrote a comment in an American daily on an article. Reproducing it below. They removed the comments section later on!


If USA wants to make an impression on Pakistanis, the best way is for the whole of West to stop giving any visas or any extensions, or green cards or citizenships to Pakistanis.

The Elite in Pakistan plays the Islamic game and don't really care if the situation deteriorates. They know they will always be able to escape to the West. Until then they milk the West from Pakistan.

If the West starts deporting all those families of Pakistani military men back to Pakistan, the West will see how new forms of cooperation suddenly become available.

The problem is USA and UK are not willing to use sticks.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by RamaY »

RajeshA wrote:Johann,

Just saw your post about outspending Pakistan in Afghanistan.

I think it is not simply a question of outspending, but one of outterrorizing Pakistan. The day more Paki Army people are killed for every Afghan killed by the Taliban, there will be peace in Afghanistan as well.

Afghans just need to kill more Pakis.
RajeshA ji - This rant is not against you. Just firing from your shoulder :wink:

Why do we want Afghan to terrorize Pakis? Didn't Indians die in the hands of Pakis? Where is Indian response?

It is funny that we ban people who propose random killing of Pakis (of all shades of green) and call them fanatics while we strategize for other countries to kill Pakis.

Afghans can kill Pakis for their own reasons and their national interests. I want Indians to kill Pakis, 10 Pakis for every Indian killed due to Paki sponsored terrorism in JK and Punjab. So far we have 64,000 deaths to avenge - that is 640,000 pakis to kill.

JEM saar - that is a real Gem suggestion.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by RajeshA »

RamaY ji,

it depends on of which strategy one is speaking!

I have got nothing against killing Pakis in retribution for what they do to Indians. I have always been in its favor.

But here I spoke in a different context. The context is of making Afghanistan so prosperous, and Pakistan so deprived, that the allegiance of the Paki Pushtuns change towards the North. That would imply a rejuvenated Pushtun nationalism. When that happens Pakistan breaks.

Pakis have for a long time destabilized Afghanistan with introducing Talibanism into the mix being just the latest, even though it too is around 16 years old.

Afghan prosperity independent from Pakistan through their trade connections to the North and to Iran, and through Iran, may be to India, is another zero-sum game between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

As Pakis don't allow Afghanistan to stabilize making the Talibs and Haqqanis do all sort of terrorist acts, the only way to stop these acts is if Afghanistan decides to bite back the Pakis.

So I advocated Afghans killing Pakis with a particular strategy in mind.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by JE Menon »

In fact that suggestion to make the elite feel the pain was made some time ago by an anonymous writer in a paper which is still online here... That, too, was not an "original idea"... the basic premise has been floating around for a while, and it is also common sense. But it may be that it is only now applicable...

http://www.2shared.com/document/G_Qr6nt ... nge_P.html
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by RajeshA »

JE Menon saar,

no way I consider it original from my side. :) Just wanted to put it out there.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Prem »

RajeshA wrote:JE Menon saar,
no way I consider it original from my side. :) Just wanted to put it out there.

Bill Roggio of LWJ have advocated this line publicly. May be Rangudu sir have whispered something like this in his ears.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Sanku »

RamaY wrote: It is funny that we ban people who propose random killing of Pakis (of all shades of green)
RamaY ji, I take great offence to the suggestion that we kill Pakis randomly. Irrespective of their shades. Although I am glad that you will not discriminate on the basis of shade still I cant quite agree with you there.

:wink:
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Post by Prem »

Coke takes on India with $3 billion effort
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/06/2 ... rylink=cpy
The Coca-Cola Co. and its bottlers plan to invest an additional $3 billion in India over the next eight years to boost the soda giant’s stake in the rapidly growing market. The world’s biggest beverage maker is seeing some of its biggest gains come from emerging markets as growth at home slows.In its first quarter, for example, Coca-Cola said its volume rose 20 percent in India, compared with a 2 percent increase in North America.Including the new cash infusion, Coca-Cola said Tuesday that it now plans to invest $5 billion in India between 2012 and 2020.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by JE Menon »

RajeshA

I was not suggesting that you have claimed it as an original idea at all - just pointing out that it was not an original idea of the author of that analysis. Nor did he/she claim it. Apologies if it appeared that way.
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Post by Prem »

http://dailycaller.com/2012/06/26/obama ... ok-travel/
Obama campaign uses company with operations in India and China to book travel
new ad from President Obama’s re-election campaign calls Mitt Romney “Outsourcer-in-Chief,” accusing the former businessman and presumptive Republican presidential nominee of overseeing companies that shipped jobs to China and India while leading Bain Capital.But while Obama tries to hit Romney on this issue, records show that Obama’s campaign is using a travel booking company this year that have operations in India and China.Federal Election Commission reports show that Obama for America made numerous payments to the corporate travel company Egencia as recently as May. They were made to Egencia’s Bellevue, Washington office.Egencia is a corporate travel division of the online travel company Expedia and, according to its website, has call center operations “around the world.”“Our customer service team consists of hundreds of travel consultants around the world dedicated to superior service and value to your travelers,” the company says.
Egencia is active in the Asia-Pacific region,” Egencia president Rob Greyber told the Investor’s Business Daily in 2009. “We have operations in both China and India as well as Australia.”The company’s website shows that it has jobs openings for software development, engineering and analytics work for its office in Gurgaon, India.Egencia, at one point, contracted with a company to handle calls at a center in Pensacola, Fla. But the Pensacola News Journal reported in 2011 that the company Tata Business Support Services closed and laid off all of its 180 employees.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by anishns »

Jhujar wrote:Coke takes on India with $3 billion effort
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/06/2 ... rylink=cpy
The Coca-Cola Co. and its bottlers plan to invest an additional $3 billion in India over the next eight years to boost the soda giant’s stake in the rapidly growing market. The world’s biggest beverage maker is seeing some of its biggest gains come from emerging markets as growth at home slows.In its first quarter, for example, Coca-Cola said its volume rose 20 percent in India, compared with a 2 percent increase in North America.Including the new cash infusion, Coca-Cola said Tuesday that it now plans to invest $5 billion in India between 2012 and 2020.
That's good to know....when recession hits!

Gum ka saathi Rum aur Rum ka saathi coca cola :mrgreen:
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Outspending Pakistan ? Pakistan hardly spends anything there in economic or development activities, unless of course the suggestion is to outspend them on terrorist outfits.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Vayutuvan »

Immigrants Are Crucial to Innovation, Study Says
The report points out that while many of the world’s top foreign-born innovators are trained at United States universities, after graduation they face “daunting or insurmountable immigration hurdles that force them to leave and bring their talents elsewhere.”

The Partnership for a New American Economy released a paper in May saying that other nations were aggressively courting highly skilled citizens who had settled in the United States, urging them to return to their home countries. The partnership supports legislation that would make it easier for foreign-born STEM graduates and entrepreneurs to stay in the United States.

“Now that we know immigrants are behind more than three of every four patents from leading universities, the federal laws that send so many of them back to their home countries look even more patently wrong,” Mayor Bloomberg said in a statement.
In one illustration of the issue, the study notes that nine out of 10 patents at the University of Illinois system in 2011 had at least one foreign-born inventor. Of those, 64 percent had a foreign inventor who was not yet a professor but rather a student, researcher or postdoctoral fellow, a group more likely to face immigration problems.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by SaiK »

Image
I like the AKA's dress code in this pic.

http://flonnet.com/stories/20120713291305800.htm
Image
Panetta, during his recent visit to New Delhi, raised the issue of increased Indian involvement in Afghanistan. In a speech delivered at the Institute of Defence Studies and Analyses (IDSA), he stressed the need to “further deepen” the military relationship between the two countries. He declared that the two countries had “opened a new chapter” in their relationship and expressed his confidence that the new relationship would “become more strategic, more practical and more collaborative”.
Now, are they trying to replace their men with ours? I hope we don't want to send a peace keeping force there.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

The US wants the Indians to be the new Aussies.
I was watching a PBS show last night which showed how the Aussies were courted by US right from end of WWI onwards. And how an Aussie leader appealed and pledged their support to US right in 1942 and it has held since then.

Aussies are now multi-cultural and tired of Empire wars by GB and now US.

Aussies are now saying PRC is a neighbor and not good idea to provoke them.

Unlike Imperial Japan these guys have manpower and now money.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by member_22286 »

Ramana Gary PRC is Maya no MahaMaya.I was discussing with a Singaporean Chinese the day before and some of his insights are Intresting.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by SaiK »

One way to look at it is - risk.

But, if we want to play hard, then look at it as - reward.

I would like to see two pronged approach here:
1. Get away from khan's legal documentation laws, and call it draconian and contrary to Indics.
2. Look at ways to maximize technology sharing and especially in the areas where we need jumpstarts [ToT on turbines, nice stealth etc].

If they agree, why not send our troops/play real politics with chips?
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by member_23626 »

SaiK wrote:One way to look at it is - risk.

But, if we want to play hard, then look at it as - reward.

I would like to see two pronged approach here:
1. Get away from khan's legal documentation laws, and call it draconian and contrary to Indics.
2. Look at ways to maximize technology sharing and especially in the areas where we need jumpstarts [ToT on turbines, nice stealth etc].

If they agree, why not send our troops/play real politics with chips?
Let's keep our feet on grounds please... if this idealistic "reward" turns out to be a disaster, we all know what will happen
member_22286
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by member_22286 »

We can only send troops only when we have a solid logistics route at our disposal.Another problem with sending troops are our countrymen ready to face bodybags
member_22286
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by member_22286 »

We can only send troops only when we have a solid logistics route at our disposal.Another problem with sending troops are our countrymen ready to face bodybags
member_22286
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by member_22286 »

We can only send troops only when we have a solid logistics route at our disposal.Another problem with sending troops are our countrymen ready to face bodybags
vasu raya
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by vasu raya »

The Americans have been balancing TSP aganist India militarily so far, if they now want to us to counter act aganist China, atleast they can feed their products and market with our supply chain instead of totally basing their component sourcing from China and then asking us to buy their high priced defence products, MoD's defence offsets policy tries to put our supply chain in the loop but is very deal specific and hence limited. If their policy chooses to pit us aganist the Chinese economically then we can perhaps become a strategic ally on the lines of Japan or France.
svinayak
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by svinayak »

vasu raya wrote:The Americans have been balancing TSP aganist India militarily so far, if they now want to us to counter act aganist China, atleast they can feed their products and market with our supply chain instead of totally basing their component sourcing from China and then asking us to buy their high priced defence products, MoD's defence offsets policy tries to put our supply chain in the loop but is very deal specific and hence limited. If their policy chooses to pit us aganist the Chinese economically then we can perhaps become a strategic ally on the lines of Japan or France.
Who said they want to us to counter act aganist China. They have large trade with China that they dont want to disturb.
They may be targeting India in the long run. Right now they are allowing the chinese lobby to use US global media to target India.
nvishal
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by nvishal »

vasu raya wrote:The Americans have been balancing TSP aganist India militarily so far, if they now want to us to counter act aganist China
There's a power vacuum in this region that needs to be filled will be filled by someone eventually. The void is that strong. It'll be filled by either china or india.

India has been showing unwillingness for reasons which itself knows. So in indias absence, the US intends to fill in for the vacuum personally. That is the reason why they are increasing their military presense in the pacific.
svinayak
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by svinayak »

US is already inside Pakistan as a proxy and it is trying to balance China in its own way
US has a large trade with China and keeps China dominant in Asia.

So US can play on both sides of the game.
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