Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 Jul 2012 16:55

26/11 Control Room not possible without state support: P.Chidambaram

India on Wednesday said it has become increasingly clear that 'state actors' were involved in executing the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks and that without state support the terror control room could not have been established in Pakistan.

Home minister P Chidambaram said India knew who had trained Ajmal Amir Kasab and nine other terrorists who carried out the terror strikes in Mumbai, who briefed them and how the control room, from where directions were given, had functioned.

"It is no longer possible to deny that though the incident happened in Mumbai, there was a control room in Pakistan before and during the incident. Without state support, the control room could not have been established," he told reporters here.

Chidambaram said after Kasab's interrogation, evidence clearly pointed to the involvement of state actors and it was corroborated by the statement given by Syed Zabiuddin Ansari, alias Abu Jundal, who was arrested on June 21 after his arrival from Saudi Arabia.

"After Abu Jundal's interrogation, it was clear that there were state actors. Dots are increasingly getting joined. Though there were many pseudonyms, it is clear that state actors were there. Pictures are getting clearer and clearer. We have been able to know who were there and where they were," he said.

VKumar · Post by **VKumar** » 04 Jul 2012 17:09

I have always held, from the very first moment that I saw the attack on TV, that it was impossible without local support. Now, we know the educational standrad of the terrorists (kasab, etc) so I doubt that in a strange city they could have found their way, even with all training, GPS etc, without local guides.

I am sure that GOI is hiding the Indian involvement, faerful of backlash in Mumbai/India.

VKumar · Post by **VKumar** » 04 Jul 2012 17:11

perhaps TSP can now provide a dossier with the 40 names of Indian's involved.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Jul 2012 21:35

VK, Now that Clinton and Houri have razied, there will be no more revelations and PC will be railing futilely with dossiers.

Maybe that was the game all along.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 04 Jul 2012 21:47

Ofcourse there were locals involved, Any idea of how many Pakistanis are illegally staying in India? They have Aadhar card, PAN card, ration card, passport, heck they can get bank loan faster than most of us here in this forum in India. These Pakis are more Indian than many.
The locals were Pakistanis,incorrectly termed Indians by PC, PC is a pompous fool and he does not even know it.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 04 Jul 2012 21:51

If any Indian is havng all documents in perfect order there is a case for suspecting him to be a Paki.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 05 Jul 2012 21:32

what is the idea behind masking the terrorists here?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 05 Jul 2012 21:48

He needs to be identified by Eye-Witnesses in Identity parade or in the Court. if face is shown in Public evidence would become tainted and inadmissible unless direct evidence is available linking the accused with the crime.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Jul 2012 00:52

thank you. excellent answer.

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 07 Jul 2012 06:18

WTF is all this tamasha, on one side Jundal is providing all information about ISI etc. and OTOH we are planning to play cricket?

What is the need that we need to play cricket with them? Only TSP players are loosing by not selecting them in IPL.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Jul 2012 06:30

Jundal revelations are to allow uncle to get his trucks through TSP.

At most PC will send another dosa to TSP.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 07 Jul 2012 07:31

Why do we ask Jundal what we already know?

wp.me/p1cKzB-2kV

Very interesting article IMO. There is still so much we don't know about 26/11. What happened to the other attackers etc.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 08 Jul 2012 07:10

Ansari mentor Kagazi fought with Sajid Mir, dropped from 26/11 plot

arun · Post by **arun** » 08 Jul 2012 07:26

X Posted from the TSP thread.

The Piskologically oriented may find this article to be of interest.

R. Jagannathan on the gross failure of India to recognise the deeply ingrained malevolence that exists in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan towards India.

He certainly is on the mark when he says that it is not the Islamic Republic of Pakistan but rather India that is living in denial for failing to understand the deeply ingrained malevolence towards India that is prevalent in the Islamic Republic:.

Abu Jundal: It’s not Pakistan that is in denial, it’s us

by R Jagannathan

Jul 7, 2012

The other day, the prime-time anchors on a TV show went on and on about how Pakistan was in “denial” about the role played by state actors in the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks. …………….

However, there is need to discuss who is in a state of denial, Pakistan or India. We all know what the Pakistani state is all about, so if we still have not understood what they are up to, and why they won’t acknowledge the role of Abu Jundal (or Zabiuddin Ansari) in directing the 26/11 terrorists, we are in a state of denial.

The prime purpose of the Pakistani state is to oversee India’s failure as a state. Which is why when we brandish Abu Jundal’s dossiers, they smirk. They will toss it into a dustbin and ask us “what evidence?” When we sent them the dossier on Hafiz Saeed, the Pakistani foreign secretary in February 2010 called it mere “literature.”

We should never be in denial of this reality till Pakistan itself, through an internal process of rediscovering their relatedness to us, shed their anti-Indian identity.

But we have been consistently foolish in presuming that since we are so alike, they will be thinking like we do: let bygones be bygones. This has been the problem with Indians. We have very short memories, we have very short-time horizons. We have no long-term strategic vision on how to deal with Pakistan beyond hoping that they will pipe down and become peaceful neighbours. ……………………

First Post

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 08 Jul 2012 08:50

ramana wrote:Jundal revelations are to allow uncle to get his trucks through TSP.

At most PC will send another dosa to TSP.

Eu Tu Ramana garu

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Jul 2012 15:05

abhishek_sharma wrote:Ansari mentor Kagazi fought with Sajid Mir, dropped from 26/11 plot

So Beed is another such jihadi producing centre like Bhatkal or Azamgarh ?

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 08 Jul 2012 17:05

arun wrote:X Posted from the TSP thread.

The Piskologically oriented may find this article to be of interest.

R. Jagannathan on the gross failure of India to recognise the deeply ingrained malevolence that exists in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan towards India.

He certainly is on the mark when he says that it is not the Islamic Republic of Pakistan but rather India that is living in denial for failing to understand the deeply ingrained malevolence towards India that is prevalent in the Islamic Republic:.

Abu Jundal: It’s not Pakistan that is in denial, it’s us

by R Jagannathan

Jul 7, 2012

The other day, the prime-time anchors on a TV show went on and on about how Pakistan was in “denial” about the role played by state actors in the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks. …………….

However, there is need to discuss who is in a state of denial, Pakistan or India. We all know what the Pakistani state is all about, so if we still have not understood what they are up to, and why they won’t acknowledge the role of Abu Jundal (or Zabiuddin Ansari) in directing the 26/11 terrorists, we are in a state of denial.

The prime purpose of the Pakistani state is to oversee India’s failure as a state. Which is why when we brandish Abu Jundal’s dossiers, they smirk. They will toss it into a dustbin and ask us “what evidence?” When we sent them the dossier on Hafiz Saeed, the Pakistani foreign secretary in February 2010 called it mere “literature.”

We should never be in denial of this reality till Pakistan itself, through an internal process of rediscovering their relatedness to us, shed their anti-Indian identity.

But we have been consistently foolish in presuming that since we are so alike, they will be thinking like we do: let bygones be bygones. This has been the problem with Indians. We have very short memories, we have very short-time horizons. We have no long-term strategic vision on how to deal with Pakistan beyond hoping that they will pipe down and become peaceful neighbours. ……………………

First Post

I agree. We are in denial.

Try as I might, I have not found a chankain reason as to why we are doing all this Aman Ki Tamasha with Pakistan. The private players, I can understand. but the official strategy begs belief.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 08 Jul 2012 18:18

Over tha past seven years, certain actions and events stopped the juggernaut of Sharm-el-shake/aman-ki-asha type puppy-jhappy actions without further process. Each terror attack, Pillai's statements, Army Chief's statements, defence ministry's actions are examples. Now Jundal's extraction and his statements are also falling in the same type. The friendship with Pak is one that takes a small baby step, and takes a huge leap backwards.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 09 Jul 2012 01:43

we seem rather obsessed with others (any others) repeating or accepting our stance in public. somehow we don't feel validated unless someone else says x,y,z. its almost as if we can then say - look look they said x,y,z - so it must be true! better discussed in insecurity dhaaga...

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 10 Jul 2012 19:14

I.E. hits a new low. Shows pic of 2002 Riot victim in a story on Abu Jundal

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 10 Jul 2012 19:28

He's my son Zabi, confirms Jundal's mother

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 786404.cms

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 10 Jul 2012 22:12

Tweets by Ali Chishti

"'The handlers panicked after Ajmal Kasab's capture. However, the overall mood in the control room was jubilant..." Ansari on #26/11Mumbai

Federal Investigation Agency FIA raided the house on Indian tip & destroyed the #26/11Mumbai command & control center at Quaidabad ‪#Karachi‬

Mitsubishi boat engine had been traced by Indians to have been bought from ‪#Karachi‬ - also,all VoIP calls routed from C&C in ‪#Karachi‬.#26/11

26/11 Mumbai attacks update: we now know that the command & control center of attacks was in Qaidabad area of ‪#Karachi‬.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jul 2012 22:22

So TSP made good use of the dosa supplied by PC and destroyed the evidence.

BTW, the US did the same when India supplied a failed TSP made detonator after the 1993 Mumbai bombings per B Raman

Draw your own conclusions.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 10 Jul 2012 22:58

He's writing an article with the pics. But GoI expected this. They have been trying to raise the international pressure on TSP for a long time. I dont think GoI have ever done a good job on this subject - this is the point where you use ex-officials/Nitin Pai's etc to go on CNN/BBC etc write articles in your NYT/WSJ etc trumpet the Ansari arrest and keep the public pressure on TSP.

They still don't know how to play the media game...

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 13 Jul 2012 06:27

Why the Saudis deported Abu Jundal

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 13 Jul 2012 06:38

Tut tut nasty Indians, that picture looks like abu is beseeching abba to save him from the Indian police's arrangements for his khairiyat. I condemn torture (for all human beings).

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 13 Jul 2012 08:23

abhishek_sharma wrote:Why the Saudis deported Abu Jundal

That article confirms what I wrote earlier here, namely, that KSA has been acting decisively in terror cases.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 13 Jul 2012 08:30

^^ But they will only act against Indian terrorists. Is that right? Paki terrorists are still a no-go area for them?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 13 Jul 2012 08:44

Abhishek, that in itself is a big change. The UK does not even repatriate Indian criminals.

There is a lot of historical baggage that KSA needs to shed before it can extradite Pakistani citizens to India. That may not even happen. OTOH, we may be able to force them to expel these terrorists as the next step from Saudi soil. We will hasten slowly.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Jul 2012 19:56

26/11 TSP trial: TSP Court Reserves Decision on LeT Commander Lakhvi's Plea

A Pakistani court conducting the Mumbai attacks trial on Saturday reserved to July 17 its decision on LeT commander Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi's application challenging the report of a judicial panel that probed the 2008 strikes, besides rejecting the bail plea of one of the seven suspects.

Chaudhry Habib-ur-Rehman, the judge of the Rawalpindi- based anti-terrorism court no. 1, reserved his judgement after hearing the arguments of defence and prosecution lawyers during the proceedings held behind closed doors at Adiala Jail. The judge will announce his decision on July 17, sources said.

Lakhvi, the mastermind of the 2008 attacks, had claimed in his application that the report of the Pakistani judicial commission should not be made part of the case as it has "no legal value".

Lakhvi's counsel Khwaja Haris Ahmed objected to the agreement between India and Pakistan on the judicial commission's visit to Mumbai as it did not allow the cross-examination of witnesses.

"The commission was not allowed to cross-examine witnesses, making the whole exercise useless. The report has no legal value and therefore it should be ignored and not made part of the case," Ahmed said. Chief prosecutor Chaudhry Zulifqar Ali argued that the court could send the commission to India again after ensuring that it would be allowed to cross-examine witnesses.

It is certain that the court would concur with Lakhvi's demand. Or, they may play a little trick here. The ATC may reject Lakhvi's plea and allow him to appeal to the jihadi-pasand Lahore High Court where he would win. The federal and Punjab governments would choose not to go in appeal to the Supreme Court. Of course, they are sure to lose even if they go in appeal. That way, they can proclaim the impartiality and independence of the judiciary.

See here for a chronology of court drama in Pakistan

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Jul 2012 21:09

SSridhar wrote:Abhishek, that in itself is a big change. The UK does not even repatriate Indian criminals.

There is a lot of historical baggage that KSA needs to shed before it can extradite Pakistani citizens to India. That may not even happen. OTOH, we may be able to force them to expel these terrorists as the next step from Saudi soil. We will hasten slowly.

GOI has to insist that KSA not provide safe haven for terrorists and should expel them to their home countries at a minimum.

OTH GOI can also pressure the EU/West to come up with a court system to deal with transnational terrorists as peace and confidence building measure. This would reduce the chances of WWI type of beginnings. After all it was Serbia's reluctance to extradite Duke Ferdinand's murderers to Austria that started the Great War that unraveled the European social order.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 15 Jul 2012 16:51

^^ In the past that was the case, they used to "escape" to Pakistan as this was considered the minimum.

Jundal had one Pak, 3 Saudi Arabian SIMs

Had multiple email IDs; each meant for specific persons
Shaurya Karanbir Gurung
Tribune News Service

New Delhi, July 5
Terror mastermind Sayed Zabiuddin Ansari, alias Abu Jundal, used multiple email IDs and SIM cards, each meant to communicate only with specific persons.

Jundal’s pan-India network of sleeper agents and modules in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are being slowly unearthed as sleuths have fanned out across the country to follow up on leads emerging from his interrogation. He had also set up a new module of the Indian Mujahideen (IM).

A special cell of the Delhi Police has found that Jundal had been using nine email IDs and four SIM cards (one from Pakistan and three from Saudi Arabia). “Call details in respect of various SIM cards have been obtained through diplomatic channels and the same are being analysed. The mirror images, a technical term for call details available on SIM cards, have been converted into DVDs and are being analysed,” the special cell told Chief Metropolitan Magistrate Vinod Yadav today.

The magistrate extended the police remand of Jundal and allowed the Delhi Police to retain him till July 20. The claims of the National Investigation Agency and the ATS, Mumbai, seeking his custody were turned down.

Investigators are now clear that Jundal was part of a larger conspiracy and he is in knowledge of several plots and plans being hatched by Pakistan-based terror groups under the Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT).

The Delhi Police has dispatched special teams to various places in India to gather further information. Jundal had been running several small modules. Just ahead of the 2010 Commonwealth Games in New Delhi, he arranged for the shootout at Jama Masjid. A motorcycle-borne youth had fired at a bus carrying foreign tourists. Shooter Mohd Adil, a Pakistani youth, was arrested in November last year. He had named Jundal as the key member.

The Delhi Police told the court, “Information gathered from Jundal needs to be analysed in a centralised manner with a view to establish his links with other invisible handlers of the LeT and the IM.”

The probe

n Call details of various SIMs have been obtained and are being analysed

n It is also being established how he managed to collect a big haul of weapons

n He is in the know of several plots being hatched by Pak-based terror groups

n His police remand has been extended till July 20

Interesting KSA has been handing over more evidence to support the case against Jundal.

arun · Post by **arun** » 15 Jul 2012 17:58

X Posted from the TSP thread.

Taken from a dodgy source {Clicky} which is purporting to carry the full transcript of the interview by CNN-IBN of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s High Commissioner to India, Salman Bashir.

The CNN-IBN Interview is mainly focussed on the topic of Mohammadden Terrorism targeting India fomented by “State” organs of the Islamic Republic, in particular 26/11. :

Full Transcript of Pakistan High Commissioner's interview to CNN-IBN

Devil's Advocate- No Embargo- can be used immediately

Karan Thapar: Hello and welcome to Devil's Advocate. What is the present state of India-Pakistan relations? That is the key issue I shall discuss today with Pakistan's new high commissioner to India, the country's former foreign secretary Salman Bashir. Hi, commissioner, let's start with terror and Abu Jundal. India has shared with Pakistan some of Abu Jundal's testimony – how do you respond to what you have been told?

Salman Bashir: Karan, first of all thank you for giving me an opportunity to be on your program, the first day after presentation of my credentials. I am so happy to be privileged. I think, let's take this important conversation at 6000 feet and look at the state of relation. Of course, answering your question directly, Abu Jundal and all we have said we really believe it that we ought to be in a cooperative board and to work all these, what relates to terror that deflects both India and Pakistan together.

Karan Thapar: Let me ask you two specific questions. How do you account for the fact that Abu Jundal had a Pakistani passport, two Pakistani identity cards and he was assisted by Pakistan in going to Saudi Arabia?

Salman Bashir: The same night, when there was this disclosure in media about Abu Jundal's arrest, we had offered to the Home Ministry, to the Government of India, our readiness to work on this together. And the Foreign Secretary repeated that, I think, really the way forward on Abu Jundal, and whatever pertains to all these domain, is to interact more to cooperate more, because I think the objective is the same.

Karan Thapar: The second critical question is, how do you account for that fact that Pakistan lobbied with Saudi Arabia to have Abu Jundal deported to Islamabad and not sent to Delhi despite the fact that Rehman Malik has publicly accepted that Abu Jundal is an Indian citizen.

Salman Bashir: I have seen media reports to that effect. I'm not in a position to corroborate that…

Karan Thapar: Which bit you can't corroborate.

Salman Bashir: About Pakistan lobbying Saudi not to let him come to India. I have seen nothing to that effect.

Karan Thapar: So it may be true, it may not be true.

Salman Bashir: Absolutely.

Karan Thapar: But the interesting thing is that you are not denying that Pakistan didn't lobby.

Salman Bashir: No, my point here is that on these matters we ought to have a degree of objectivity and that degree of objectivity, and I believe both of us are serious, can come when concerned people meet and, you know, deal with these matters.

Karan Thapar: Third, Abu Jundal has made it clear that elements of Pakistan's officialdom who are involved in 26/11, thus corroborating what David Headly had said earlier – how do you respond to that?

Salman Bashir: Elements of Pakistan and state that's what the media has been saying, attributing to Abu Jundal. We have taken note of all what has been said. And my answer again is the same - let the two sides get together to work through this and I think you can't take the word of an individual or you know, what is being said out in the public domain and give it more credence than the actual conversations that the officials track.

Karan Thapar: Last week when your new Foreign Secretary, your successor Jalil Abbas Jilani was in Delhi, he rejected any claim that elements of Pakistan's state were involved in 26/11. But at the same time he also said that Pakistan would investigate information given by Abu Jundal. So let me ask you, will you investigate, check and conform that members of the Pakistani state were not involved or do you reject that out of hand?

Salman Bashir: Well first of all, I think, there is a prospective of the context got…it's important to get it right. Pakistan has been affected with terror much more than any other country in the world. Our GHQ has been attacked, our public places have been attacked, closed to 40,000 people have been killed. So terror is enemy number one in Pakistan.

Karan Thapar: Absolutely and no one in India will deny it accept it think they would point out, as you must have heard, that the terror Pakistan faces is inflicted on Pakistan by Pakistani sources. We in India are a victim of terror inflected by Pakistani sources on us that people say is a critical difference.

Salman Bashir: I think, everybody knows and everybody sort of believes that this is a global phenomenon and it is a virus which afflicts perhaps many societies.

Karan Thapar: Might not the epicenter of that virus be Pakistan?

Salman Bashir: Well that is blind imitations sometimes of the detracts that behaved from time to time. But I don't think that is a fair assessment.

Karan Thapar: Let me bring you back to my question. Given that your Foreign Secretary has said that Pakistan will investigate all the information made available by Abu Jundal, will you investigate and check that Pakistani state actors were or were not involved or would you reject that out of hand?

Salman Bashir: I would say that we have asked on the official track for information and of course we have many time said that we are ready to cooperate. We have the Home Secretary, Interior Secretary talks going on. Our Home Minister is quite prepared to take up these himself with the Home Minister of India. So I think on the Pakistani side I can assure you that we are mind full of responsibilities….

Karan Thapar: I hear your answer very clearly High commissioner, you repeatedly have said in this interview that you want to cooperate. Does that mean that you will in fact check and investigate to conform that state actors are involved or is that one aspect of Adu Jundal's testimony which you reject out of hand ab initio.

Salman Bashir: As I said if our own Army headquarters are attacked, if ISI offices are attacked then I think it is really unbelievable, incredible to allege that Pakistani state, institutes have been involved in this. We ought to look at the situation very objectively in our respect of national interests.

Karan Thapar: I understand and I'm concluding from your answer that you will investigate every bit of information provided by Abu Jundal but not the clam that Pakistani state actors were involved. Have I understood you correctly?

Salman Bashir: Anybody, whether it is state-non state, terrorism is something that is apparent to our ethos, our values, to nationally, to Pakistan. So let's not reach prematurely to conclusions that are not warranted.

Karan Thapar: Now you have repeatedly said that Pakistan wishes to cooperate with India on the issue of terror that was the point made specifically by your new Foreign Secretary as well. Pakistan has offered a joint investigation into Adu Jundal's testimony –what response did you get from India?

Salman Bashir: Well let me make that clear. I think the two foreign secretaries had a very good conversation, good dialogue, which also included points raised by India pertaining to Abu Jundal specifically and other matters pertaining to terror. And I would expect that this would be followed up by officially sharing of information if India so wants, with the relevant Pakistani authorities. Because what we are seeing is a lot of press coverage of what is being attributed to Abu Jundal but nothing has been given to us.

Karan Thapar: But was India receptive to the offer or suggestion of a joint investigation?

Salman Bashir: I think this point was not specifically addressed by the Indian side.

Karan Thapar: So you are still awaiting a formal reply to this offer?

Salman Bashir: I would say so.

Karan Thapar: Let me finally come to two other aspects connected to terror. First, India feel deeply frustrated by the slow 26/11 trials in Pakistan. In under three years the judge has changed five times and American intelligence believes that Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi has accessed mobile phone in jail so he can stay in contact with LeT cardres. Is Pakistan serious about this trial or is it a sham?

Salman Bashir: Pakistan is very serious about this trial and anything that has got to do with terror. But we also are very serious about judicial processes. And as you know Pakistan has a very independent judiciary, number one. Number two, I think, I ought to mention, you know, if we get to cooperate like this particular issue at least 25 plus documents have been exchanged by both sides, 12 dossiers from India, 13 from Pakistan. That's the real stuff that is how we should proceed. Now judiciary has its own parameters and the fact is that the prosecution that is the government has done its best and will continue to persist to ensure that justice finally prevails.

Karan Thapar: You know, your judicial commission visited India few months ago, your were able to meet some of the people, get witness, evidence from them. The belief in India is that in fact your government is not pushing as hard, as fast as it could.

Salman Bashir: Well, I think, I would not like to say anything regarding subjective assessments. But the point is that some of these thinks like the Samjhauta thing that took place in 2007 is yet under investigation. And I think we ought to look at the spirit, we ought to be fixated on the objects that we need to achieve and not get into forensics of a particular situation.

Karan Thapar: The second critical point that worries people in India is Hafiz Saeed. I accept that at least on two occasions you have detained him and the courts have released him. But the truth is he is back again spewing venom, threatening jihad against India. Given that in January 2004 Pakistan committed itself to ensuring that there would be no anti-India activity from Pakistani soil. Can you not restrain Hafiz Saeed?

Salman Bashir: We was under preventive detention, maintenance of public order and it continued for sometime till he was actually released on the orders of the Lahore High Court.

Karan Thapar: But you know why the Lahore court released him on September 2009 when he had actually been arrested under the antiterrorist act because his organisation Jamata-ul-Dawa was not banned under the act. That was the lacuna that permitted the Lahor court. And the said party is even today, the JuD is not banned under the act, so that lacuna continues.

Salman Bashir: On that aspect, I think, I ought to be explicit both the LeT and the JUD are restricted and prohibited under law.

Karan Thapar: Well they are under, what Rehman Malik calls, a special watch list, but he concedes that the JUD is not banned under the antiterrorist act.

Salman Bashir: The JUD's activities are sort of restricted under the Pakistani act of law that pertains to international, you know, this 1-2-6-7 Security Council resolution.

Karan Thapar: So once again you are saying that Pakistan is doing everything it can to restrain Hafiz Saeed but you have to operate within your laws.

Salman Bashir: That is unfortunately the dilemma. The civil societies have to operate with in the limits of law.

Karan Thapar: High Commissioner let's now talk about the wider India-Pakistan relationship. In February 2010 when you came to India as foreign secretary, you dismissed India's evidence on terror as a piece of literature. Last month your successor Jalil Jilani said and I quote, "Pakistan will support India in its fight against terrorism," that's the line you have taken very eloquently right through part I of this interview. So let me ask you, is this just a softer kind of language or is this indicate a change in attitude?

Salman Bashir: Well Karan first of all let me clarify on the literature, it was just in a manner of speech and I had sort of explained that.

Karan Thapar: I fully accept that.

Salman Bashir: But it doesn't mean in any sense to denigrate what we have to say and we have to take seriously and we take it seriously. Number two, well this is the most interesting side in our conversation today, I would say there has been a sea change in Pakistan-India relationship scenario. I think, if you would permit, I can say for Pakistan with great degree of certainty that at all levels, the leadership, state institution, the people of Pakistan, they realised that it is in the self interest of Pakistan to have the best of relationships.

Karan Thapar: You really mean it when you say sea change? That's dramatic language.

Salman Bashir: That's the atmosphere. I think the atmospherics have witnessed a sea change. Let me say that it was in Thimpu when both our Prime Ministers met and had a plus one hour conversation and then later they called us and briefed us. And it was Prime Minister Manmohan Singh who said that we should invest in building trusts by having frequent visits, exchanges at all levels. I think that is happening and that is huge in terms of where we were.

Karan Thapar: High Commissioner you mentioned how the leadership in Pakistan is keen to improve the relationship with India. I noticed in April when President Zardari came to India he was reported to have said Manmohan Singh that India and Pakistan should emulate India and China and boost trade. Just 10 days later foreign minister Khar in her interview to Hindustan Times said our intention is to solve the Kashmir problem but let us start with less complicated problems. And in a mere next five days General Kayani publicly said that it was important for India and Pakistan to invest in peaceful co-existence. Does any of this suggest that there is a shift in how Pakistan perceives its relationship with India?

Salman Bashir: You mentioned India-China model, there is also the Pakistan-China model, there is also the China-Japan model, you know we have models in the present day and age. I think the world has changed, changing fast, the region is changing fast. There are lot of opportunities between Pakistan and India.

Karan Thapar: But to be specific, is Pakistan looking for a new way of conducting this relationship? Is that what I should understand from President Zardari's comments, Foreign Minister Khar's comments?

Salman Bashir: That's certainly I would say is a sincere intent but of course it takes two to tango.

Karan Thapar: But there is sincere intent on Pakistan's part to look for a new approach for relationship with India?

Salman Bashir: I think we are well on the way in terms of looking at the new approach, the two Prime Ministers met several times, President Zardari was here, they have had very good conversations. So I think on the drawing board the theoretical construct is almost there. Now it is for people like us who are in this business to give it more form, shape, meaning…

Karan Thapar: You said a very important thing. You are saying not just in forms of rhetoric and atmospherics but also in form the theoretical constructs on the drawing board, the fundamentals of the new changed relationship already there, it's now for the diplomats to take it further.

Salman Bashir:Absolutely.

Karan Thapar: I have understood you correctly?

Salman Bashir: Yes.

Karan Thapar: In this contest I want to put something, which I noticed about Kashmir which has been a flash point in the relationship between India and Pakistan. Again going back to February 2010, when you came as the foreign secretary you said and I quote, "Kashmir was discussed extensively, one cannot be dismissive about the issue of Kashmir." In contrast, earlier this month when Jalil Jilani came, he was much more relaxed about Kashmir, in fact the phrase 'core issue' wasn't heard once in public. Many Indians looked at the joint statement that was issued and saw Kashmir was point number six under terror. The question I want to ask is all this, is all of these misleading, or is this a suggestion that both countries are learning to handle Kashmir with less acrimony and more accommodation?

Salman Bashir: I agree with you, I think yes.

Karan Thapar: You are absolutely certain about it?

Salman Bashir: Yes.

Karan Thapar: Now, would an early visit by the Indian Prime Minister to Pakistan help cement the change in mood rhetoric that you talked about?
Salman Bashir: I think there is an in principal understanding, agreement, acceptance of the invitation extended by Pakistan to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to visit. I certainly agree that a visit by the Prime Minister of India would go a long way in not only cementing, but also taking the relationship forward.

Karan Thapar:High Commissioner, a pleasure talking to you.

Salman Bashir: Thank you.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 17 Jul 2012 18:56

Mumbai attacks: ATC rejects judicial report

RAWALPINDI: The Anti-Terrorism Court-II (ATC) on Tuesday rejected the combined investigative report by Pakistani and Indian authorities and termed it as unlawful, Express News reported.
The ATC-II court judge, Chaudhry Habibur Rehman, said that the report, compiled by the nine-member Pakistani judicial commission and their Indian counterparts, was unlawful because it did not give the defendants the right to cross-examine the witnesses.
Rehman further stated that the commission’s report – including statements of the witnesses – cannot be used against the accused arrested in Pakistan without giving them the right to a cross-examination.
The court further ruled that the agreement between the governments of Pakistan and India on the probe should be dissolved and a new agreement be chalked out.
Counsel of Lashkar-e-Taiba co-chairman, Abdul Rehman Makki, had earlier argued that the Indian authorities did not allow the defense counsel to interrogate, hence the report holds no legal importance.
The Pakistani commission of defense lawyers, prosecutors and a court official had gone to India on a four-day tour to gather evidence for the prosecution of suspects linked to the 2008 Mumbai attacks in March, 2012.
The commission met with police officials who were involved in the investigation in Mumbai and doctors who conducted the autopsies of the terrorists and victims.
The commission had visited India in pursuance of an order of the Rawalpindi ATC to record the statements of four key witnesses.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/409423/mumb ... -unlawful/

See here for a chronology of court drama in Pakistan

arun · Post by **arun** » 17 Jul 2012 19:59

X Posted from the TSP thread.

Cartoonist Manjul in DNA sarcastically suggests that our cricket match with the Islamic Republic of Pakistan should be started on 26/11, the day of the Mohammadden Terrorist attack sponsored by the Islamic Republic on Mumbai, rather than in December:

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jul 2012 05:23

For completeness....

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 90202.aspx

IB, R&AW brass almost got the sack after 26/11

The government came close to sacking top intelligence officials soon after 26/11 because of serious lapses that led to the 2008 Mumbai attacks, senior officials have told HT. Disclosures made by 26/11 handler Zabiuddin Ansari, alias Abu Jundal, have only confirmed the assessment that IB
and R&AW both failed in analysing, disseminating and acting upon intelligence that was fairly specific.

The unprecedented step of fixing bureaucratic accountability wasn’t taken only because the chiefs of the internal and the external agencies were retiring soon after, an official revealed. The Intelligence Bureau chief was to retire December-end, a month after the attacks. The Research and Analysis Wing chief’s tenure was to end January 2009.

“The government wanted to send a similar message through the intelligence community as it did in political circles by removing home minister Shivraj Patil and Maharashtra CM Vilasrao Deshmukh,” the official said.

Confirming intelligence failure, Jundal has told his interrogators that the SIM cards used by the 10 terrorists in Mumbai were sent to Pakistan in advance. The SIMs were sent to PoK through Laskhar-e-Taiba operatives by the Jammu and Kashmir Police as part of a covert operation aimed at infiltrating the terror outfit’s ranks.

In a costly slip-up, the IB didn't monitor the numbers though it received the details, including a list of numbers, five days before the attacks.

If Jundal and the others present in a 'control room' in Karachi were able to coordinate the finer details of the 26/11 strike, it was because the 10 terrorists were armed with Indian mobile numbers well before they set sail for Mumbai.

The details of the SIM cards were shared with the IB through a note marked 'secret'. Thirty-five SIM cards were given to Lashkar operatives, the note said.

It underscored the need for the numbers to be monitored, saying, "These numbers are likely to emerge in other parts of the country. These numbers need to be monitored…."

The numbers, however, were not put under surveillance by the intelligence agencies. According to the dossier shared with Pakistan by the ministry of external affairs, Ajmal Kasab — the lone terrorist taken alive during the attacks — and his nine accomplices were four nautical miles (7.4km) from Mumbai on 26/11 at 4pm and got off a dingy in Colaba's Badhwar Park, a little after 8pm.

It was only after midnight - when the carnage was well underway -- that the security and intelligence apparatus realised that some of the numbers being used by the terrorists were on the list shared by the J&K Police.

Similarly, while R&AW had specific inputs that Mumbai hotels would be targeted and sea route used, the information was not disseminated to the officials concerned. The task of plugging the holes was begun by P Chidambaram when he took over as the home minister from Patil.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 27 Jul 2012 08:14

Four laptops, two TV sets, full house in Lashkar control room

The man, his movements and his missions

After giving cops the slip, Ansari fled to Karachi on Pak passport

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 Jul 2012 14:38

ATC Judge disallows 2 prosecution winesses because India disallowed cross-examination
A bizarre reason to blunt the case.

An anti-terrorism court hearing the Mumbai attacks case adjourned the hearing to August 4, DawnNews reported.

The court has also issued summons for five witnesses to appear at the next hearing.

The case was heard by ATC Judge Chaudhry Habibur Rehman in Adiyala prison.

During the hearing, the Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) produced two witnesses but the court did not get their statements on record.

The judge reiterated that the commission constituted for recording in India the testimonies of four witnesses of the attacks was not allowed to cross-examine Indian prosecution witnesses.

The judge said that the commission’s issue needed resolving before the statements of the two witnesses could be recorded, adding that, the testimonies of the two witnesses were linked to the prosecution witnesses in India.

Now, all prosecution witnesses can be excluded in the same way.

See here for a chronology of court drama in Pakistan

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 05 Aug 2012 14:18

Final nail in the coffin and the convergence of state and non state actors.

26/11 assault: Mumbai evidence not admissible, India told

August 1, 2012 RAWALPINDI:

The interior ministry has informed the Indian government that the evidence provided in the 26/11 Mumbai attacks case is not admissible in the Pakistani trial court since the lawyers representing the accused were not allowed to cross-examine Indian officials.

In a letter dispatched to the Indian government on Tuesday, the interior ministry, citing the verdict of the Rawalpindi Anti-Terrorism Court, declared that the cross-examination of the key Indian officials in the case was needed to make the evidence admissible in Pakistan

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 08 Aug 2012 15:24

The ISI handles Indian Lashkar operatives with care

Posted on August 8, 2012 | Leave a comment
The fact that the ISI shows a lot of interest in the operations in India is not a secret. Abu Jundal who is now being questioned by the Maharashtra ATS tells his interrogators that there are two senior officers in the ISI who are exclusively in charge of the Indian operatives of the Lashkar-e-Tayiba.

He tells his interrogators that right from the recruitment to the operations stage there are always two officers in the rank of Colonel and Lt. Colonel who are in charge of the Indian operatives. As Jundal grew in the ranks of the Lashkar as a powerful Indian operative, he had to report to two persons in the ISI- Colonel Mohammad and Lt Colonel Asad. However investigators feel that these could be fake names as even the ISI would not give out their original names while dealing with the operatives from India especially.

Jundal who had already told the Delhi police that he was part of the control room which was managed by the ISI during the 26/11 attack has narrated the same thing to the ATS as well. Jundal says that at all times these handlers from the ISI were with them and they oversaw every little operation. Even at the time of the 26/11 operation he being an Indian operative had to report to his ISI handler who most of the time passed on the information that needed to be. However Jundal says that his handlers from the ISI were not part of the control room and it was another set of ISI officers who handled the entire team.

Jundal says during his interrogation that while there are many Indians who are with the Lashkar, there are only a select few who have been chosen for covert operations. While he was one of them, the rest are Lal Baba, Abu Musab, Abu Sherjil and Abu Jarar. While Musab hails from the Valley, the rest are all residents of Maharashtra. Barring Musab the rest of the persons including left for Pakistan around the same time and were under the same handlers from the ISI. The ISI is extremely cautious when it comes to Indian operatives. Although Indian operatives are valued by the ISI, they are also the most scrutinized. Police sources say that this is largely because the ISI is worried that India could plant a mole into their establishment and hence the scrutiny is very high.

International operations- The intelligence bureau officials who are also part of this probe since day one says that their would also focus on finding out the international operations of the Lashkar which could affect the security of India. The Lashkar has been picking up operatives not only from India, but also from Saudi Arabia, Bangladesh and also Sri Lanka. There have been signs of a Sri Lankan presence when Khwaja and HuJI operative was picked up from there.

We are clearly aware that Jundal was in Saudi Arabia to further the cause of the Lashkar. He was in touch with people from Asian countries and we need to get more information on this aspect. Sources say that they need to also find out more about the links Jundal had with Muzzamil Bhat since he was in charge of India operations. The IB feels that Jundal may have been working in coordination with Bhat since his plans were restricted to India. Hence any plan regarding India had to be overseen by Bhat. Moreover Bhat was also present in the control room at Karachi.

Jundal had already revealed to the Delhi police at the time of his arrest that his main job post 26/11 was to carry out a series of attacks in India. He had said that they were targeting the Nashik police academy since they felt that it was the Indians who carried out the attack on the Karachi police academy. ATS sources say that this is something that is being probed. We cannot say for sure that the Nashik operation is off the radar just because Jundal is in custody. He has not been too clear about this information and further probing will give us a better picture.

Apart from this Jundal has not revealed anything new to the ATS. He has spoken about the control room in Karachi and also said that they had done their best to guard it as they feared that the Indians may attack the unit. He also pointed out that the entire control room was destroyed following the operation as they did not want to leave a trace as it had been located in a high profile area of Karachi which is guarded by the military.

Further Jundal also pointed out that following the 26/11 attack while there was rejoicing in the Lashkar camp there was also this feeling of pressure since the attacked had received a lot of attention across the world. There was a fear by the Pakistani establishment of a counter strike by the Indians and each one of us were asked to constantly change our bases. In order to counter this, the Pakistan establishment carried out a series of attacks of persons who were not really connected with the attack. They did their best to safeguard the real persons involved in the attack as they did realise that if one of us had been arrested by any other force other than Pakistan, it would lead directly to the role played by the Pakistani establishment. There was a great deal of pressure to arrest Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi and also Hafiz Saeed. They were arrested but it was more of a protection against any sort of International strike against them Jundal also told the police. Those arrested were kept in homes and were under the protection of the establishment, he also revealed.