India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 29 Jul 2012 04:27

Nukavarapu, greetings and thanks the links. IMHO DRDO has actually done quite well for itself given the limited budgetary support from the GOI and the stepmotherly treatment by the armed forces. I think the best use of their limited resources would be to concentrate on strategic systems where no one will be willing to sell. Production should then be split between two or so competitors in industry. The GOI should get the hell out of production. Companies who do a good job will be given more/larger percentage of follow on orders.

Also there is no reason DRDO should be the sole research agency in India. If a private company comes up with a good idea, the govt. should subsidize the R&D in an 80:20 ratio with the private company.There are some world class companies coming forward and asking to help make India free of imports. To not help them would be a criminal act. Bharat Forge is actually putting their own money into a 155 mm artillery project with a foreign partner( ?Austrian). I would much rather have them build artillery for the IA than the OFB. I would love to see L&T compete against MDL in the P75 follow up sub order. Hopefully Reliance will one day soon compete against HAL. Given their project management skills I bet that day comes a lot sooner than any of us imagine. India has all the pieces in place to become an arms manufacturing hub. It just needs its slothful, incompetent govt/bureaucracy to get out of the way.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 29 Jul 2012 06:12

Nukavarapu, I did hear Dr. Saraswat say that. BTW I am quite impressed with Astra Microwave and not just cause they are from my hometown (Tenali actually but close enough). I think once a critical mass of private players ( integrators not just subcontractors) emerges, the changes will be irreversible. Furthermore the private players do not have the rigid pay scale set up of the GOI bureaucracy. They can cherry pic the cream of the crop both domestically and abroad. Plus they will want to aggressively export as it means more money in their pockets. This is good news for economies of scale, Indian jobs and Indian diplomatic leverage. My only fear is the MoD-leftist union nexus. They are only concerned about maintaining the currently dysfunctional status quo for their only selfish interests.

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 30 Jul 2012 17:24

DRDO Newsletter Aug 2012

marimuthu · Post by **marimuthu** » 30 Jul 2012 21:24

DRDO program in Discovery channel on Tuesday(July 31) Night 7 pm IST in India.Please watch

venkat_r · Post by **venkat_r** » 30 Jul 2012 22:47

Quite impressive Mr.Saraswat's knowledge on such wide topics and his depth of knowledge. Good progress by DRDO

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 02 Aug 2012 07:46

Mahindra and Telephonics Corporation sign final agreement to form JV

NEW DELHI, Aug 01, 2012 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd., one of India's leading business houses, and Telephonics Corporation (Telephonics), a leading designer, developer, and manufacturer of high-technology integrated information, communication and sensor system solutions to military and commercial markets worldwide and a subsidiary of Griffon Corporation GFF -4.78% , announced today they signed a definitive agreement to form a Joint Venture (JV). The JV will provide the Indian Ministry of Defence and the Indian Civil sector with radar and surveillance systems, Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) devices, and communication systems. In addition, the JV intends to provide systems for Air Traffic Management Services, Homeland Security, and other emerging surveillance requirements.

The Company will be called Mahindra-Telephonics Integrated Systems (Mahindra-Telephonics), and will be incorporated in the coming months following an amendment to the prior approval granted by the Foreign Investment Promotion Bureau on March 31, 2012.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 04 Aug 2012 06:12

Insufficient spares from local vendors hit HAL operations.

Inadequate availability of spares from local vendors is impacting Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd’s operations in West Bengal.

The Defence PSU’s Barrackpore Division is responsible for maintenance, repair and overhauling of Cheetah and Chetak helicopters. The unit has assembling facility for modified Cheetah (Cheetal) and Chetak helicopters.

“There is lack of availability of equipment in the eastern region. The local vendors have difficulties in managing their workforce,” K.C. Nanda, General Manager of HAL’s Barrackpore Division, said on Thursday.

He was attending a conference on Defence and industry relation organised by Confederation of Indian Industry here.

According to Nanda, there are 34 vendors located mostly in Kolkata and Howrah that cater to the Barrackpore Division.

Reiterating the need for private participation in aircraft ancillary industry, he said: “We need 60 aircraft engines per year. We are not in a position to meet the requirement, given the current capacity. So, we need participation of the private players.”

Aseem Anand, Director of Directorate of Indigenisation, Indian Navy, who was present on the occasion, said there was a need to encourage private sector’s participation to promote indigenisation of defence equipment.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 04 Aug 2012 06:14

Tata Lockheed India facility delivers centre wing box.

Tata Lockheed Martin Aerostructures, a joint venture between Tata Advanced Systems and US-based defence systems manufacturer Lockheed Martin Corporation, delivered the first made-in-India centre wing box, a vital section of an aircraft connecting the wings to fuselage, for the latter’s Hercules C-130 military aircraft, from its Hyderabad facility on Friday.

Buoyed by the response to its C-130s from the Indian Air Force, the company is expecting more orders from the central government, according to George Shultz, vice-president and general manager (C-130 programmes), Lockheed Martin.

India has ordered six C-130s, a four-engine turboprop military transport aircraft, to be used for special operations in early 2008.

“The six C-130s already flew out of our Bethesda, US, facility, last December for induction into the Indian Air Force,” Shultz said.

The joint venture facility, which broke ground in February 2011, is export-oriented and the products manufactured form the overall aircraft structure that Lockheed Martin will integrate and complete for its global C-130 aircraft customers.

“Besides India, 15 other countries have placed order for C-130s, and these could have parts made in India at Tata Lockheed Martin Aerostructures,” he said

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 04 Aug 2012 06:46

^^^ Wow! That is a big stride!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Aug 2012 07:27

The reason I said in the katrina thread, that tata's capability is more than Reliance. /JMO

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 04 Aug 2012 07:43

TATA is already making many of the composite parts for Tejas...

From a very old article http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/11/st ... ry-to.html

Tata will produce 13 major composite parts for each of the 20 Tejas MK-1 fighters. These include parts in the centre fuselage, undercarriage doors, fin and rudder.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Aug 2012 11:04

But for the Bhopal disaster, India would have emerged as a Center of Excellence in composite structures. The disaster made Union Carbide a company non grata and the plans to shift their composite fiber making plant astray.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 05 Aug 2012 16:34

shiv wrote:
geeth wrote:One of the problems that people often discuss much less is the level of productivity. People in other countries, and also Indians working in other countries have genrally higher levels of productivity - This is particularly true in Govt establishments. IMO the reason is the lackadaisical attitude of the working class, conducive labour laws which aids these kind of attitude and militant trade unionism.
Geeth let me point out an odd paradox. I grew up reading that Indians are lazy and that Indian "work culture" is poor. I suffered from cognitive dissonance because no one near me was lazy and no one skipped work. I discovered that domestic helps, gardeners, watchmen, dhobis, doodhwalas, vegetable vendors and many others never took a single day off. If they took time off at all it was for Hindu festivals Holi, Dussera, Diwali etc I found out later that it was the "work culture" of regular paid labor who had to work 8 hour shifts 6 days a week and got Sunday off that had a "poor work culture". They were accused of having too many grandfathers who kept dying and of disappearing for days without leave at the time of Diwali as they had "gone to native". Socialist PSU/government jobs that gave lifetime job security and unionism protected this work culture, or lack of it.

I don't think Indians in India lack work culture. Watch any Marwari or Shetty who runs a business. He is at his shop by 10 AM and stays there till 9 PM 7 days a week. That is a type of Indian wok culture that is never recognized and never praised. But India is undergoing a massive shift in work culture from the traditional Indian work all days except festivals to a Christist-Industrial age - God rested on Sunday work paradigm. Even the maids who used to work 7 days a week now get one day off. But those who run their own businesses - are fully capable of and willing to work 7 days a week. As do many others including police, doctors and soldiers in India.

geeth wrote:Shiv, I don't think I understood fully what you wrote above. If you are saying there are Indians in India who work hard, I don't dispute it. But they are in minority and more often than not, they would be running the show, while the remain passengers. That is not what I am trying to put across. It is this 80/20 phenomena (or may be 90/10) which is a major problem. The productivity level in India is low, particularly in PSUs and nobody is able to/unwilling to do anything about it. Due to this, where a work force of 10 is required, 20 are recruited. Other reasons like lack of facilities, funds, beurocratic bottlenecks etc., compound the problem.

I’ve spent quite some time in my professional life assessing this question. In my opinion, it’s a mix of risks + returns that makes a person perform, irrespective of ethnicity or socio-economic position. I’ll explain using the following examples -

1. European colonist in 17th & 18th century
2. European today
3. Indian domestic help cited by Shiv
4. Indian engineer in 1990s
5. Indian PSU worker in the 1990s

1. European colonist in 17th, 18th & 19th century

With a population explosion after Renaissance, the local ecosystem simply could not sustain the populace. The eldest son got ancestral property, but the rest were left to fend for themselves. For survival, they had to go to colonies. The risk was fratricide if they stayed back at home. The return was building a fortune in the colonies. What helped was an education system that equipped the European colonists with scientific knowledge, when Indian Brahmins and Chinese Mandarins were busy stonewalling knowledge.

2. European today

Social Welfare has ensured they get adequate returns without any risk. There is no incentive to work. In my decade of working there, I found out people study at the university until their 30s, stay in university campuses and raise children on aid, and start work only in their mid-30s. The lack of risk + assured returns is ensuring their growth is stagnating. On a macro economic level, their economies simply cannot sustain such social welfare and public spending. The results are showing.

3. Indian domestic help cited by Shiv

For a domestic help in India from 1950’s to 2010’s, it was the risk of survival that made him work day and night without leave – all for two square meals. They lacked any education for alternate occupations. They couldn’t afford any medical treatment. And if they didn’t work hard, then the lady of the house would simply get another maid/gardener.

Same for the shopkeeper. If he doesn’t keep his shop open, people will go to his competitor’s shop.

4. Indian engineer in 1990s

With lack of any professional opportunities, the Indian engineer faced survival risk in the 80’s and 90’s. The best bet was the IAS examination for Civil Services, followed by CDSE for Defence Services, followed by IES for Engineering Services, followed by NET/SET for Educational Services. Given the limited vacancies in all these occupations, the Indian engineer faced a survival risk.

His only survival option was going abroad via GRE or a software job. However, to ensure his work permit / visa remained valid, the Indian Engineer abroad studies and later worked hard like crazy.

The risk of work permit/visa + dollar returns makes the Indian Engineer abroad work hard.

Curiously, the Indian Software Engineer based offshore in India works with much less efficiency than an onsite resource. Only the (relatively) higher salary of the IT sector and the promise of an onsite posting makes him work.

In a striking similarity with the European colonial in the previous centuries, the Indian Engineer is equipped with excellent education.

5. Indian PSU worker in the 1990s

This chap has neither risk nor returns.

Even if he is suspended from work, he will draw his salary and is assured of pension.

Even if he performs beyond expectations, time scale based promotion structure will ensure he will not get an out-of-turn-promotion. He does not grow.

Higher ranks are based on seniority rather than performance, as the Army Chief episode showed.

I have met “lazy” and “industrious” goras and Indians. The only conclusion I draw is that for organizations, societies and nations to grow and survive, they need the right mix of risk & returns.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 05 Aug 2012 18:31

Suresh S · Post by **Suresh S** » 06 Aug 2012 02:26

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Aug 2012 04:04

what you point is those men who shudder risk, and succumb.. risk vs. rewards is always the game plan for winners. strategy is manage your risks, while focus on your rewards. one can't ignore risks.. but it is an invisible item on the menu... it costs a lot, but done correct. there are many techniques out in maasan world they use especially in NASA and other defense establishment, how to model them, and come out successful. Some of these techniques have actually worked in the subsequent Mars Rover projects.. however, it did not come out without taking risks, and a penchant for collecting metrics. It is a continuous process to succeed that gets you whereever you want to go..

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 06 Aug 2012 05:02

Hmmmm I emailed a China firm, with a clean, clinical-looking website, that manufactures portable ultrasound machines and got a reply in 1 day.

I emailed an Indian firm with a decrepit website about its refurbished ultrasound machines: three years later I am still waiting for a reply.

Yes India very very good and noble, China very very bad and profiteering.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 06 Aug 2012 07:41

I had various Chinese umbrellas that my dad (long time ago) used to send me as a kid every year, as they inevitably broke by the end of the year. But the thing looked slick and cool, something that looked better than the local stuff. But finally my penny-pinching mom got my dad to stop sending these things and she bought me an ugly and uncool Indian umbrella that anyone who lived around could afford. Anyway, the point is that, that was more or less the end of the yearly ritual of getting me a new umbrella. The thing hardly ever broke and even if it did get bent or broken, it was easily fixed. Suffice to say, I still have the thing (ya, more than a decade and a half later) while my Chinese umbrellas have long since been recycled (given to the scrap dealer). Thus, I am happy for your "China firm, with a clean, clinical-looking website, that manufactures portable ultrasound machines," I hope you are ready to use it on your family as well.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Aug 2012 08:05

There are two different but related things here. One is "work culture" and the other is "good business practice". For self employed people, people who run their own business a culture of continuous work when required and rest when possible is the norm. For "employees" who work for a salary, the established expectation of work culture is hard work for 8 hours a day for 5 to 6 days a week and 1-2 days off.

The self employed person has the need to work when work is there, but has the choice of taking time off when it is absolutely necessary, or when work is unavailable, albeit at the expense of his earnings/business.

The employee gets paid even for days off, but has less freedom to take time off. Getting this person to have a stake in the success of the business is important. What PSUs have done is to detach the success of the business (the PSU) from the success of the employee. The "successful" PSU worker can work a lifetime with perks, promotions and pension in a failed "sick" PSU that is not making any profits. Clearly not all PSU employees are like this and it is unfair to many to say this, but I don't know if PSU's have any way of handling chronic underachievers in the workforce especially at senior levels. Time bound enhancements in salary and other perks continue unabated even if a nut or bolt is left inside the engine of a MiG 21 that later crashes. At the same time those who work competently should get some visible benefit for doing that.

I am not sure of what mechanisms, if any, exist to address such issues but aerospace and defence are as critical as critical medical care and that realization has to percolate through every unit the PSU. I hope it is happening.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 06 Aug 2012 20:12

Mr Menon's umbrellas demonstrate admirably all that is wrong with the Indian mentality. So what if high by-pass fanjets are only made in the west, my great-etc-great grandfather invented the vimaan. So there.

Meanwhile India remains resolutely third world, China is leaping to the first place and not only in the Olympics. I know, but those Chinese athletes are exploited.

India very very good and noble.

And it will stay that way until people like Mr Menon decide to stop fantasising an India to their liking.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 06 Aug 2012 20:24

Quite agree with u @sanjaykumar....

in the 1950's anything which was of hopeless quality was called 'japani' and now we know what does japani mean...!!

Mr Menon, u will be surprised to know that chinese manufacture three qualities of any product... depending on where it has to be exported to... U can guess which of these three comes to india and which goes to Europe/US ...

and what sanjay says that "Meanwhile India remains resolutely third world" is quite right in all spheres.......

on the sporting front, while the chinese girl who won silver in badminton singles was crying, our girl who won the bronze was over the top as was whole of the country !!! says a lot abt us... and how high our bar is !!

negi · Post by **negi** » 06 Aug 2012 20:32

manjgu wrote: on the sporting front, while the chinese girl who won silver in badminton singles was crying, our girl who won the bronze was over the top as was whole of the country !!! says a lot abt us... and how high our bar is !!

Well even if 1% of our population could have same attitude as Saina, we would be a great nation. To suggest/assume that smiling on the podium is a sign of an individual not willing to go any further than what he/she has accomplished is inappropriate.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 06 Aug 2012 20:44

@negi.... i was just telling the difference between the two !! upto u to draw the conclusion...

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Aug 2012 20:48

^in fact aerospace and defense is much more critical than medical field [in a relative sense of danger] - for example, defective [assumptions of course] medical diagnosis say provides fault readings, leading to a death. Now, there are other possible ways to overcome or have workarounds.. but, when it comes to safety-critical systems like for example LCA, it is not just that life who is piloting, but the life of much more in addition to the security of the nation at risk. For example, if that LCA could down about 10 paki J10s, and blew some big time paki assets, then so much gain in terms of saving a million people getting nuked by paki terrorists in mil uniform.

Both are extremely hard real-time systems, but one has more disastrous effect than the other, if one could relatively compare. [caveat: I am not comparing values of one person life vs. many, and many is more valuable. But, just pointing at not just quantitative aspects, but more on the induced risks that comes by failures]

member_20036 · Post by **member_20036** » 06 Aug 2012 21:27

Interview with Larsen and Toubro’s chairman Anil Manibhai Naik
Q: L&T is said to be the barometer of Indian economy. What is it telling us?

Overall, things aren’t good right now.(Everyone’s talking about) the slowdown in the global economy andthe Euro crisis; but I don’t think the impact (of the external factors) on India could have been more than 20 per cent. [In the fourth quarter of 2011-12 (January-March this year, GDP growth tumbled to 5.3 per cent, the slowest growth in 29 quarters]. Most of it is our creation. This is because our democracy does not holdpolitical parties responsible to the nation. No constructive work is happening. Then there is the problemof corruption and the common man is hit. The east is better off on this account though. Both the present andearlier governments were clean. But the east lacks industrialisation.
You need to sort out land issues to build industry or infrastructure. Just the other day, I was talking to someone who wants to put up a power plant and he was assured 3,000 acres. He has to pay Rs 15 lakh an acre, while the government price is Rs 1.5 lakh an acre. Still, he has been given only 700 acres. For the rest, landowners are asking him to cough up Rs 25 lakh an acre.
Take the case of the Mumbai airport; the Prime Minister has listed it as oneof the top infrastructure projects thatneeds to be expedited. But the people are asking Rs 1 crore per acre after the land bill — which is now stalled — indicated that there would be no government involvement in theacquisition process. Before that, the land was priced at Rs 10 lakh an acre. The airport needed 5,000 acres. How will you build an airport if the land price alone is Rs 5,000 crore?

Q: What about the power plant you wanted to build in Bengal?
We tried two-to-three places in Bengal but finally gave up. However, we have increased our engineering activities here. The metals and mineral group is being relocated from Chennai to Calcutta. We are increasing headcount from 600 to 1,000 in the next 12 to15 months. We are doing a lot of engineering, construction and contracts work. We bagged the biggest transmission order. We are building a bridge here; also Vivekananda bridge no 2. All this is happening because of our increased attention (to Bengal).

Q: You met chief minister Mamata Banerjee a few months back. What happened?
Yes, I did. She welcomed us and said she wanted clean and efficient companies such as L&T in Bengal. I suggested that this was possible if the government considered changingthe tender criteria. The tender process must recognise merit and performance. It should not place emphasis on picking only the lowest bidder. On-time execution is very important. If a project is delayed, there is the burden of additional finance costs and the loss of opportunity.
Because of corruption (within our system), small contractors qualify to bid for projects. But they fail to complete projects within time. Unlesswe resolve this nationally, we will have a big problem on our hands.

Q: Do you think infrastructure projects should be treated differently?
The standing committee (on land acquisition) must take note of the exceptions. There has to be a special category for infrastructure projects. All infrastructure projects must be listed under this category which mustinclude roads, power plants, ports, airports, telecom, effluent treatment,water linkage for agriculture, and food storage facilities.

Q: But isn’t Bengal a step ahead of everyone else when it says no land can be acquired?
Yes, they have placed a condition thatthey will not acquire any land for private projects.

Q: Do you think Bengal should reconsider this stand?
Yes, it should. The chief minister has said no land will be acquired for private enterprise. But this rule should not apply if you want to put up a power plant that is so essential for Bengal.
They have to resolve the land acquisition process in such cases. A distinction should be made between a commercial transaction and an essential infrastructure project. World over, this is made.

Q: If land prices soar, can industry flourish and will India remain a low-cost economy?
No manufacturer can survive with this kind of land prices. Everything that you want to do with land must be linked to employment. No matter what the level of investment, there should be a direct emphasis on jobs. The government must monitor this closely; otherwise, everyone will make promises and never deliver on them.
The government must provide the land for infrastructure
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1120806/j ... B-p003ZAQZ

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 06 Aug 2012 21:35

sanjaykumar wrote:Mr Menon's umbrellas demonstrate ...............India to their liking.

How cute, you go ahead and trivialize whatever I was trying to convey and then dismiss me as one of those wacky fellows who claims that everything was already invented and recorded in the vedas or whatever. I assure you that I am in no way unaware of the backwardness of our country. But at the same time, I would like it if a habitual hater like you would take a step back and see the good things that are done here as well. The very same country that you so admire supplied power equipment to some Indian power plants (due to the inefficiency of BHEL). They soon regretted their decision, as they came to enjoy the advanced technology made by china. Also, I am very aware of the fact that the very computer I type this with has many of its components made in china, but that does not make Indian any more or less good at what it does. So, go ahead and get your ultrasound, I just hope you don't wise up to the benefits of Chinese technological wonders the hard way. By the way, I heard that portable ultrasounds may be banned in the future. So, good luck with your Chinese ultrasound and enjoy it while you can.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Aug 2012 21:54

India is resolutely third world alright. Anyone who pretends otherwise does not know about India. In this third world nation some citizens seem to find their personal fulfilment and self satisfaction by informing others that India is third world - implying that they know and the other Indian ignoramus does not know this. The need resort to this feeble dung beetle-kicks dung beetle drama just to feel better is itself and Indian trademark. My dungpile represents better self realization than yours.

Wrong thread though..

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 06 Aug 2012 21:56

But at the same time, I would like it if a habitual hater like you would take a step back and see the good things that are done here as well

My dear fellow, it is called realism. It is the first step on the road to wisdom.

Know thyself-Upansihads 800 BC

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 06 Aug 2012 22:04

^^And I call it masochism, and the funny part is that you insist others enjoy your perversions too.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 06 Aug 2012 22:17

manjgu wrote:........
on the sporting front, while the chinese girl who won silver in badminton singles was crying, our girl who won the bronze was over the top as was whole of the country !!! says a lot abt us... and how high our bar is !!

sometimes people just need to shut up and stop saying garbage to prove how superior they are to the rest of the country and the olympic medalist.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 06 Aug 2012 22:23

@RahulM... would request you to see the whole video of this ceremony to get an idea what i am talking abt...

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 06 Aug 2012 22:28

I have a fair idea of what you are talking about and why. I would in turn ask you to watch the semi and watch her reaction after it. the 3rd position match was almost a foregone conclusion after her opponent got injured.

and this was during the medal ceremony, AFTER all that. you can still see the disappointment etched into her body language.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 06 Aug 2012 22:33

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Aug 2012 22:34

manjgu wrote: and what sanjay says that "Meanwhile India remains resolutely third world" is quite right in all spheres.......

on the sporting front, while the chinese girl who won silver in badminton singles was crying, our girl who won the bronze was over the top as was whole of the country !!! says a lot abt us... and how high our bar is !!

What fascinates me is not that our bar is low or that India is not third world. It is your need to tell Indians that as if they did not know.

May I ask, what did you gain from saying this? What do you believe others gained by reading what you wrote?

I must point out that if you just wrote your personal opinion, you could have stated that. But if you are trying to prove that your viewpoint is right, what makes you think that no one else knows and that this has to be stated? Do you somehow feel it is a sort of patriotic duty you are doing by informing other indians on this board who were otherwise ignorant about India's status? What makes you tell us this age old truth about India as if it was some kind of hitherto unknown revelation?

Did it make you feel better after you wrote that? If it made you feel worse why did you write it? Or was it an attempt to make others feel worse? if so, why would you want to do that?

Sorry, I am genuinely interested in the answers.

MN Kumar · Post by **MN Kumar** » 06 Aug 2012 22:54

manjgu wrote:Quite agree with u @sanjaykumar....

in the 1950's anything which was of hopeless quality was called 'japani' and now we know what does japani mean...!!

Mr Menon, u will be surprised to know that chinese manufacture three qualities of any product... depending on where it has to be exported to... U can guess which of these three comes to india and which goes to Europe/US ...

and what sanjay says that "Meanwhile India remains resolutely third world" is quite right in all spheres.......

on the sporting front, while the chinese girl who won silver in badminton singles was crying, our girl who won the bronze was over the top as was whole of the country !!! says a lot abt us... and how high our bar is !!

Do you understand what an Olympic medal is? Do you know how far the Chinese have gone in studying Saina's game. Her every move was observed and a counter move was planned.

The fact that she wasnt celebrating on the court after her rival withdrew says something about this girl.
Read this if you like:
It can’t only be Saina vs China: Saina

And luckily this lady doesnt share the same self defeatist attitude like you. Last post on this.

srai · Post by **srai** » 06 Aug 2012 23:48

A Sharma wrote:DRDO Newsletter Aug 2012

Page 8:

...

...for designing and successful demonstration of a modified HEAT warhead for anti-tank guided missile Nag with 1000 mm penetration in MS

...

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 07 Aug 2012 00:05

deleted

sorry wrong thread

my apologies

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 07 Aug 2012 00:28

What the hell is being discussed here?!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 07 Aug 2012 01:12

^troll alert!

kidding. but, you are right, why do we have this habit of OTing all the time?

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 07 Aug 2012 12:54

srai wrote:
A Sharma wrote:DRDO Newsletter Aug 2012
...for designing and successful demonstration of a modified HEAT warhead for anti-tank guided missile Nag with 1000 mm penetration in MS

The penetration figures are typically benchmarked against RHA Rolled Homogeneous Armour of military standards and specifications that all tanks worldwide are built of instead of Mild Steel, that is commonly used steel and of much lower strength. Composite & ceramic armour is used only in front and sides and on turret in addition to the RHA structure.