Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

ATimes ran this today:

The politics of Nowruz
By Eugen Tomiuc
In what has become a Nowruz tradition, Azerbaijan's president participated in an egg-breaking competition with two popular characters associated with the spring holiday. And this year, as in previous years, Ilham Aliyev got the best of Kosa (Beardless) and Kechal (Bald-Headed).

In Azerbaijan, a former part of the Persian Empire where Nowruz has deep roots, the president has for years used the Persian New Year as an occasion to highlight his public image by visiting Baku's old town and lighting a traditional Nowruz fire.

It could be written off as fun and games, but in many areas of the world where Nowruz is celebrated, the politics of the holiday can be serious business.

There are cases where regimes, whether religious or not, have regarded Nowruz as a threat to their dominance and banned the holiday altogether. There are others where minority groups have identified themselves with the holiday and turned it into an unofficial national symbol. And there are those instances where even the date of the holiday has been subjected to the will of local strongmen.

But in no place is the politics of Nowruz more evident than in Iran.

Pre-Islamic Iran is the cradle of Nowruz, where it is believed to have been a holiday of the ancient Zoroastrian religion. It is so deeply rooted in the Iranian tradition and has such a powerful influence that even the Islamic Revolution of 1979 could not ban it. An official six-day holiday in Iran - and 14-day vacation for schools - Nowruz has nevertheless been under constant fire from Muslim clerics, who call it un-Islamic.

Ironically, the rejection of Nowruz has united fundamentalist Shi'ite Muslims in Iran and Sunnis in Afghanistan in their disdain of national traditions.

Iran's official attitude, however, is more ambiguous toward Nowruz. While the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, has issued repeated fatwas, or religious edicts, saying that Nowruz "has no religious basis and will create a lot of damage and [moral] corruption," he is also the first to officially mark the beginning of Nowruz with a national address.

Iran's conservative president, Mahmud Ahmadinejad, has exploited Khamenei's mixed message. Seeing that ordinary Iranians have always considered Nowruz a powerful national symbol that transcends religion and goes back into Persia's millennia-long history, he has used Nowruz to present himself as a nationalist and gain more public sympathy in his power struggle with the supreme leader.

The Iranian president has also seized the day as a tool of regional influence. He has invited neighboring Armenia's president to visit Tehran to attend Nowruz celebrations, for example. And this year he was joining Afghan President Hamid Karzai in Tajikistan to participate in Nowruz festivities.

For the more than 30 million Kurds scattered across several countries including Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Syria, Nowruz has long been a symbol of their struggle for national identity and unity. The celebration of Nowruz was only legalized in Turkey in 2000 under pressure from the European Union. Turkish authorities also use a different spelling - Nevruz - and reclaimed it as a Turkish holiday.

Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan's government has also given some cultural rights to Kurds - who form at least 20% of the population and celebrate the holiday according to their own traditions.

The tensions surrounding the holiday in Turkey descended into violence on March 20 when Kurdish protesters clashed with police trying to prevent Nowruz festivities in two southeastern towns. At least nine people were hurt when people in the Turkish capital, Istanbul, and another city tried to mark the holiday.

But many Kurds will be looking toward the autonomous Iraqi region of Kurdistan, where President Massoud Barzani made his annual Nowruz address on March 21.

Iraqi Kurds suffered decades of murderous repression under Saddam Hussein, but even the Iraqi dictator stopped short of banning Nowruz. He instead declared an official "Day of the Tree" on March 21.

The Nowruz protests in Kurdistan and southeastern Turkey come amid a year-old uprising in neighboring Syria, which also has a strong Kurdish minority.

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's embattled regime has promised that it would allow Kurds to celebrate Nowruz. The holiday, which the Syrian regime associates with Kurdish separatism, has been banned since 1963, when Assad's father came to power.

Assad's family is part of the Shi'ite Alawite sect, which also celebrates Nowruz.

In Afghanistan, Nowruz was reinstated as an official holiday after the fall of Taliban in 2011. Even during Taliban rule, the spirit of Nowruz was so strong among Afghans that they kept celebrating it discreetly at home despite an official ban.

Taliban insurgents have issued periodic warnings against the observance of the holiday, and authorities have been constantly on the watch against possible bomb attacks during massive Nowruz gatherings in Kabul and the northern city of Mazar-e Sharif.

In Central Asia's former Soviet republics, Nowruz has been a recognized official holiday. But even times of celebration can take on an authoritarian hue, as in Uzbekistan, where President Islam Karimov has declared that he alone can decide when the holiday should start.

RFE/RL's Farda, Iraqi, Afghan and Azerbajani services contributed to this report.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by ramana »

Happy Nowruz to Persians.


Its coincident with Ugadi in South India and begins a new year.

Called Baisakhi in Punjab.

Its the Vernal Equinox in astronomical terms.

March 21st is the vernal equinox this year.

Ugadi is tomorrow.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

Iran's attempted Islamic identity as a whole will prove to be an obstacle in its power projection, because it can only play sidekick to Turko-Arab master race in the Islamic pecking order. Before that, Iran's Shi'a identity must be shown to be an obstacle in it power projection even amongst Iranic peoples.

Tajikistan wary of Iranians bearing gifts
While in Tajikistan, Ahmadinejad tried to comfort his embattled Tajik counterpart, Emomali Rahmon, on whom next-door Uzbekistan and Russia have been tightening the screws recently. Ahmadinejad promised to help Tajikistan, Iran's Persian-speaking cousin, to overcome its geographic isolation by building an international highway and a railway line linking Dushanbe with Tehran.

Moreover, Ahmadinejad also promised to construct gas and water pipelines between the two countries through war-inflicted Afghanistan to supply Iranian natural gas and crude oil to Tajikistan and to allow it to import water.

If realized, these transport and energy projects could be "game-changers" for Tajikistan, a small and land-locked mountainous nation of about 7.8 million people squeezed between Uzbekistan, China, Afghanistan and Kyrgyzstan. Its current dependence on Uzbekistan and Russia for fossil fuel supplies, ie natural gas and petroleum, and transportation networks is crippling its economy.
First, tightening political-economic screws helps:
However, regional observers doubt that these grand projects will be realized any time soon due to various obstacles. For a start, cash-strapped Tajikistan would expect Iran to foot the bill, which could be a problem as the Iranian government has had to introduce a number of unpopular austerity measures, such as slashing subsidies, including petroleum subsidies. Tehran faces a range of international sanctions - including economic ones - over its nuclear program, which some say is designed to build weapons - a charge Iran denies.

International financing will become increasingly difficult - if not impossible - to source as economic and financial sanctions imposed by the United States and other Western countries begin to bite on Iran's oil exports, its main source of revenue.

Besides that, Iran and Tajikistan do not share a common border, meaning the envisioned highway/railway lines and pipelines will have to cross through Afghanistan, which does not have the necessary security and technical capacity to host transnational natural gas pipelines.

A similar transnational natural gas pipeline that is meant to cross Afghanistan from gas-rich Turkmenistan to Pakistan and India - TAPI - remains on the drawing board after more than a decade since its conceptualization. This despite strong US support for the project in addition to the Asian Development Bank's willingness to finance its implementation.
And then the cultural problem heightened:
Since Ahmadinejad came to power in 2005, he has been a strong proponent of unity among Persian-speaking Iran, Tajikistan and parts of Afghanistan. Under his watch, Iran has become one of the largest foreign investors in key sectors of the Tajik economy, such as construction of hydroelectric power stations, road infrastructure, banking and other sectors.

Ahmadinejad has famously described the two nations as "one spirit with two bodies". Similar bonhomie exists only between Turkey and Azerbaijan, Turkic-speaking countries that call themselves "one nation, two countries".

However, linguistic fraternity and a common cultural and historical heritage aside, Iran and Tajikistan have little in common in their political systems and ideologies.

Both are predominantly Muslim, but Tajikistan is Sunni while Iran is the champion of Shi'ite Islam, which, though not a complete barrier, is an important factor that prevents people from fully embracing one another.

Hence, both among Iranian and Tajik political elites there lurk strong divisions under the surface of happy smiles and kisses on how to build relations.

Some high-ranking Tajik officials are believed to be cautioning Rahmon to draw limits to Tajikistan's tilt towards Iran in view of the latter's troubled relations with Western countries.

Alcohol-drinking and secular Tajik officials have also been quietly apprehensive of the clerical foundations of the Iranian regime at a time when the Tajik government is grappling with the challenges posed by the rise of various Islamic organizations. These include the Hizb u-Tahrir, the Jamaati Tablig and other banned jihadi groups.

Similarly, influential representatives of Iran have called on the secular Tajikistan government to "correct the Qibla"; they accuse it of imposing Islamophobic rules on the population, such as banning hijabs for women, prohibiting under-age boys and women from attending mosques, and recalling Tajik students who are undergoing religious studies in other Muslim countries, including in Iran.

Iran is also giving moral support to the Islamic Renaissance Party of Tajikistan, which is the only legal Islamic party in the country. It has two seats in the lower chamber of parliament. Its leader, Muhiddin Kabiri, and other prominent religious leaders are frequent guests in Iran to attend government-sponsored conferences.

In the past, the Tajik government has also on several occasions politely rejected Iran's enthusiastic offer to establish a visa-free regime between the countries, while a proposal to establish a joint Persian-language television channel that would include Afghanistan has been frozen by bureaucratic hurdles created by the Tajik government, according to Ali Asqar She'rdoust, the Iranian ambassador in Tajikistan.

In short, Tajik authorities have always tried to distance themselves from the ideological dimensions of Iranian foreign policy. Tajik leaders usually use very guarded and cautious language when voicing their sympathy and support for Iran's nuclear program.

Perhaps, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has been consistently more vocal in his support for Iran's resistance of the so-called "Western imperialism and arrogant powers" and its nuclear program than Rakhmon or his globe-trotting English-speaking Foreign Minister Hamrokhon Zarifi.

The task for Tajikistan is to pick and choose from various cooperation offers from Iran and agreeing to join hands only when it sees economic benefit for itself while at the same time keeping its relations bereft of any ideological or religious dimensions.

In such circumstances, the seemingly warm rapprochement now underway might gradually dissipate once Ahmadinejad leaves the political scene when his second and last term ends next year. It is expected that somebody more religiously conservative and more aligned with the clerical establishment will take over.

Such a new president would likely shelve the various plans to build highways, railway lines and pipelines for Tajikistan.

Similarly, should a more pragmatic president take office - as happened during the time of Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani and Muhammad Khatami - Iran would pay less attention to Tajikistan, which was considered an economic and political liability for Iran in its efforts to forge friendly relations and greater economic ties with other countries in the region.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by RajeshA »

India and Iran are a bit like Vulkan and Romulus! :wink:

It seems Remus is trying to gain the upper hand over Romulus using Sunni Islam and thus dictate the agenda, Afghanistan being the battlefield!
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

X-posting from Iran thread:
Johann wrote:
Carl wrote:Yes, Shi'a political and theological power must pass into Arab hands. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) has clearly stated that the Arab Quraish caste people only have the right to theological rule:

Allah's prophet (SallAllah-u-Alaihi-wa-Sallam) said: "This matter (rule) will remain with the Quraish even if only two from them existed."
[Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 89, Number 254]

Iranic peoples should know their place in the proper Islamic caste order stipulated by the divine.
Thats part of the reason being a Sayyid was in some ways even a bigger deal in Persian societies than Arab ones back in the days when they were religious. Being a descendant of Ali naturally being a descendant of the Quraish even if you spoke Persian and were 99% Iranian.
Yes, names like Seyed (father's bloodline is from the Quraysh) and Tabataba'i (proper bloodlines from BOTH parents) are still prestigious in Iran. Plus, at least part of Khorasan is in Iran, and Khorasan is where the predicted Mahdi is supposed to come from.

Last year there was a speech by Hassan Nasrollah (Hezbollah) that infuriated nationalistic "green wave" Iranis. In it, Nasrallah was placating his Arab audience by explaining to them that taking all the support that Iran gives them does not mean that the proud Arab is receiving favours from the Persian "Majoosi" (Zoro priest). He called their attention to the fact that the rulers of Iran were in fact all Arabs - SEYED Ali Khamenei, etc. He declared that while the masses may not be quite in the top rung, Iran's ruling mullacracy were all bona fide Arabs, and that Hezbollah and other Arabs need have no qualms about receiving Iranian help - they were entitled to help themselves to it. And this was in a speech to Shi'a Arabs, not Sunnis! This speech created a furor amongst green wavers who feel that Iran spends too many billions of dollars for Arab causes. So it must have been hard for them to hear this insulting ingratitude from the Arab beneficiaries of Iranian largesse.

Another related issue that angers anti-regime Iranians is the practice of providing Persian female company to visiting Arab dignitaries from the Gulf countries, in order to assist negotiations. Most of these women are reported to be female baseejis, who do it for God and country.

I dunno if I have posted anything on this aspect before, but it's interesting to explore the stereotypes and expectations around the caste hierarchy and mentality in the Middle East.

The Islamist hardcore in Iran considers the Iranian nation as subservient to the higher Islamist cause - its resources, culture, etc. According to shari'ah, it is clear that lovers of Islam must love and serve Arabs, if they haven't already been acculturated into becoming Arabs themselves. Even within the Arab world (and in Islam in general), there is a certain spartan mystique attached to the lifestyle and bloodlines of the Bedouins that live deep in the desert, which pleases Nature and Allah. To admire that lifestyle is essential to cultivating one's spiritual discipline, and to have that vigorous bloodline is prestigious. To quote the Indo-Paki Islamist poet Allama Iqbal:

fitrat ke maqaasid ki kartaa hai nigahbaani
ya banda e sehraaee ya mard e kohistani


"The custodians of the purposes of Essential Nature are from amongst
Either the slaves of the wilderness/desert or the men of the mountains."

Only people from the deserts, steppes or mountain crags (Arabs, Turks, Mongols, even the Greeks) are supposed to have the vigour and puissance to get Nature's work done, and especially to chasten and bring back those soft and effete nations that have grown too civilized for their own good. The Qur'an repeatedly mentions how God has repeatedly exterminated entire nations and civilizations for becoming too far removed from primal nature.

The fascination around the wild, simple, unburdened, tough and violent lifestyle of the Bedouin Arab is pretty redneck, but the whole Islamic civilization, even the most sophisticated strata, is coloured by it.

Alexander the Macedonian has been hailed as a hero by most Moslem historians and the name Eskander/Sikander is quite common amongst them, since he is considered the one to have laid the historical foundations of the Islamic core empire. He is usually identified with an earlier prophet "ZulQarnain" mentioned in the Qur'an. However, many Persians like to identify ZulQarnain with Cyrus. Tough luck, I'm not sure if even Shi'a Arabs would accept that.

I have also noticed a grandmother's tale amongst Persian women that Arab men have a legendary sexual appetite, very manly and with tremendous vigour. On the other hand, I have come across an Arab attitude that considers Persian men effeminate. I find such cultural attitudes interesting. Even in Islamic Sufism, the more ascetic schools were all Iranian - from Khorasan which had a long history of Buddhist-Zoroastrian-Manichaen traditions before Islam. Theother Arab and Turkish schools denounced such attitudes and encourage one to go forth and be fruitful with money and women, fi sabeelillah. As for us Indians, even Persians think they are more masculine, vigorous, creative and alive than the "Hendoo ye zan-goreez" - the Hindoo who runs away from wife and women in general.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by RajeshA »

Well I guess the Book and Movie "Dune" was influenced by these thinking of superiority of the desert folk due to their faith.

Rajiv Malhotra too speaks of this duality - the desert and the forest. These are two separate mentalities.

An inhabitant of a desert cannot really find his way around a forest, cannot appreciate the richness of the forest, its diversity, its complexity and only feels threatened by it.

If you don't have the brain, you use the muscle. As long as brain is content in itself, muscle wins, but sometimes brain too decides to have its own muscles, and then the other muscle has to keep its head down.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

X-posting Johann's reply from Iran thread:
Johann wrote:Hi Carl,

Khomeini and Khamenei after him were never servile to the Arabs. Rather what they tried to do is use mastery of classical Islam and support for the Arab struggles with Israel as a bridging ideology to project power and influence into the Arab and Muslim world. Unfortunately the Arabs not only understand that but are terrified of it. The panic about being controlled by Persians and Shiites is simply enormous. Najaf may be in the Arab world, but its much more often a 1-way conduit for Iranian ayatollahs to go to the Arab world, rather than putting Arab Shiite clergy in Iran.

Most Iranians and Persians today can not stand Arabs, although they'll make some concessions for non-Sunni Arabs. Partially its the growth of nationalism, but its also the fact that almost the entire Arab world stood 100% behind the Iraqi invasion which caused so much suffering to so many Iranians.

Still, I do think that nationalism draws from deep historical roots.

The Shahnameh along with the poetry of Saadi and Hafez is probably the most defining Persian cultural product. Yet although the Shahnameh (which incidentally is one of the earliest works to turn Iskander into a super-hero, which even the Greeks didnt do) was written almost 400 years after the Arab/Islamic conquest and paid for by a Muslim ruler, is a lament for Persia's pre-Islamic history.

Even when the Persians adopted the Arab alphabet they simply dispensed with the sounds they disliked for aesthetic reasons, Quran or no Quran. If there's one thing the Persians love most of all, its aesthetics.

The Persians like to say that the Arabs might have brought the religion, but they brought the civilisation. The only Arabs they respect are the Egyptians, and that's because like Persia they had an impressive pre-Islamic civilisation.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

Johann,

I broadly agree, but I don't think its that black and white with the Iranians. There's a joke going around that post-revolution Iranians form three groups, each named after an historical Iranian dynasty:
1. The Ashkanids - Those who participate in azadaari gatherings (passion ritual of breast beating and crying for Hossein and others), and shed tears ("ashk").
2. The Samanids - Those who have plundered billions from the state and stashed away their possessions (sar o "saman").
3. The Safavids - Those who are always waiting in line ("saf") and whose voice never even comes out, and these comprise the largest percentage.

Depending on the manner in which different people in Iran react to the ideological and cultural imposition, we have different mentalities, each with their own psychohistory, teleology, pet friends and enemies, martyr complex, readiness to forgive and forget, self-loathing (about an independent Persian identity), strident posturing, taqiyyah, enlightenment and self-delusion.

These different types may be broadly classified according to the spirit in which they have creatively or reactively decided to accommodate themselves in terms of their identity, and it seems to depict varying degrees of sanity.

(a) Some people completely succumb to the current Islamist zeitgeist even in a self-abnegating and self-deracinating way. These are the real believers - "ashkanids". They will literally kiss the ground that their marja' has walked on.
Image

They go out of their way to Arabize. One can find plastic date palms decorating streets in Tehran as the snow melts in the lead up to Nowruz. Some of them believe at the very least all Iranians must become bilingual Arabic speakers. Etc. Many of these may be from a particular economic strata, or ethnic background such as Azeris. But many are also from the Persian middle class - famailies that are proud to have given both sons as martyrs to in the Iraq war for the sake of Khomeini. These form, both, the lumpen element as well as the ideologues.

(b) Others neglect the system and pretend it doesn't actually exist, since they have built a social circle in which they take pride in contravening the norms set by the Islamists. So they want to say that Islamism exists only in a bubble while they are the reality, whereas it may arguably be the other way around in their case. Just by sipping wine or eating pork once in a while, they cannot deny that a great deal of their mindset has been dyed a deeper shade of green than even their own parents. In fact, dig a little deeper and one finds conflicted emotions in such people's depressed minds. They are still clearly devoted to Mohammad and 'Ali, etc. as the final and clearest of all religious philosophies - all others having some defect as they have been taught. They believe without a doubt that 9/11 was an inside job, and that there is a worldwide Zionist Illuminatti orchestrating everything, and there is the scent of end of times in the air. But their complaint is that these Islamists don't know the real Islam which also includes Hafez, Sa'adi, Rumi, etc. The mullacracy isn't romantic enough and sophisticated enough for their taste.

I have seen such types who marry Persians who had escaped to America soon after the revolution...and even such couples have cultural issues to deal with in their marriages, especially concerning religion, behavior of women, etc.! I have seen some, especially women, who after coming to the US will become deeply religious after a few years and do the Hajj. Nothing wrong with any of that per se, but the degree to which it is reactive, driven by a subtle and deep need for security is notable. (Others will go to the other rebellious extreme and become obscenely amorous.) The fact is that the social discourse and educational system has deeply affected the thinking and attitudes that have become deep set in peoples' minds.

(c) Others decide to work around the system in a practical spirit of avoidance of social penalty. Some of them are relatively non-political, they're not going to fight against the regime or for it. Some have deep set political beliefs, but they're not overtly involved in regime activities. But many such will join the Baseej, because these days there are a lot or perks that come with being in the Baseej, including a partially funded education in Western countries including the US. They have a bourgeois sort of sanity, neither rebellious nor sycophant. Some of these may be religious individuals, others may not. Many from this category also choose to emigrate to the West.

A significant section from categories (b) and (c) who migrate to the West continue to remain religious and form Iranian study circles at Shi'a mosques in the West. Often they intermingle with their Arab, Pakistani and other co-religionists. Their women wear the headscarf, but they are highly motivated to pursue good education and earn wealth and influence for the sake of a global Islamist revival. They will speak of achieving what the Jews have done - become wealthy and then buy influence, infiltrate universities, etc.

(d) Some Iranians dissimulate and escape when the opportunity is available, and some choose to fight the system once they're outside.

Most Iranians I know have gone through more than one of the above phases. The main point here is that in order to understand the psychology of the Iranian, one cannot resort to black and white theories, but has to address their insecurities and characteristic tendencies, such as dissimulation, opportunism, artful ability to create and re-write history and the contemporary scene to buttress their sense of honour, identity and mission, etc. They can even cut off a part of their past in order to maintain this specialized identity that keeps changing its outer form. to give an example from your own post:
Johann wrote:Even when the Persians adopted the Arab alphabet they simply dispensed with the sounds they disliked for aesthetic reasons, Quran or no Quran.
The Persians jettisoned a number of Pahlavi phonemes too that were in common with Arabic. Such as the "th" of "thurayyah", which they now pronounce as "s". The "th" was present in Pahlavi. A number of such actions were taken to differentiate themselves from their new rulers.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by RajeshA »

Sheda Vasseghi
"Education . Recovery . Preservation" - A journalist and professor of history specializing in Iran's ancient and current affairs. Area of concentration: Ancient Persia and Aryan philosophy.

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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Johann »

Carl,

Yes that's all certainly true. But the fact is that the number of people we might call Ashkanids really is pretty small, and as you said the majority of these tend to come from minorities like the Azeris and Iranian Arabs.

The kind of religious practice with the broadest appeal among Iranians is (a) visiting shrines, including on pilgrimmage to ask the saints for favours for everything from exams to visas to getting well or fixing their marriages (b) sufism (c) Some kind Ashura, the tazieh, and all of that.

What strikes me is the extent that they Iranize all of these, especially the Sufism, which does not have deep Arab roots. That is perhaps why Khomeini did his best to suppress it.

Most Iranians just aren't very keen on mosques for their own sake. Or Arabs.

Even the Iranian clergy tend to read more widely and broadly than most Arab clergy (Sunni as well as Shia) because like the Jesuits they are keen to incorporate what is useful and non-threatening, while grasping and countering what they find threatening. That's quite the opposite of those who try to immerse themselves solely in the world of 7th century Hejaz, or Baghdad of the 10th century.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by RajeshA »

Carl ji,

would it possible for you to give some guidance to me on the origins of the Persian word zat as in badzat! I am asking you in this context!

Premendra Priyadarshi says it is

Persian/Pushtun 'zat' => Muslim invasion into India ('zat' => 'jaat') => Sanskritization of vocabulary ('jaat' => 'jaati')!

Now it could be that 'jaati' => 'zat' in ancient times as Iranians split from Indians! But 'zat' would have followed some social evolution in Iranian context, which becomes clear from the word 'badzat'!

I am interested to know what that social evolution could have been!

Thanks
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

^^^ RajeshA ji, sorry I just noticed your question.
RajeshA wrote:would it possible for you to give some guidance to me on the origins of the Persian word zat as in badzat! I am asking you in this context!
In the compound word "bad-zaat", the "bad" is Persian, but "zaat" is Persianized Arabic. In Arabic, the word "dhaat" means intrinsic nature, essence, soul, self, etc. In Persian/Urdu it is mispronounced as "zaat." The word "bad" is Persian, and means bad. So "badzaat" in Persian means malicious, sly, mischievous, rogue, etc.

However, I don't know about Pashro, but in Persian its not common nowadays to use a word like "badzaat". Rather, the word "badjens" is used to denote the same thing. Here "jens" means exactly "genus", "species", etc.
RajeshA wrote:Premendra Priyadarshi says it is

Persian/Pushtun 'zat' => Muslim invasion into India ('zat' => 'jaat') => Sanskritization of vocabulary ('jaat' => 'jaati')!

Now it could be that 'jaati' => 'zat' in ancient times as Iranians split from Indians! But 'zat' would have followed some social evolution in Iranian context, which becomes clear from the word 'badzat'!
The Persian equivalent of Sanskrit "jaata" would be "zaad", which also means "born". For instance, the word "shah-zaadeh" means "been born of an aristocrat (shah)". Similarly in other instances also, we find in Persian the usage of "za" to refer to birth the same way in Sanskrit we use "ja".

So the usage of "zaat" in Persian derives from the Arabic "dhaat", which does signify one's intrinsic nature. In the Qur'an it refers to the soul. Islamic theology in general does have the strong idea that the behavioral trajectory of individual souls during their journey on Earth is predestined in the pre-eternity, before Allah injected them into this material world. So different people's behaviors and tendencies in this world has something to do with the intrinsic nature of their souls, according to this view.

In terms of race, this is definitely bound with the Islamic concept of "kuf", which is used in Islamic law to decide what is a good match for marriage, for instance. Or who can rule and who cannot. So there exist different classifications and subclassifications, e.g. the Prophet Muhammad was a Qureishi Arab of the Hashimi sub-classification. Thus, Quraishi Arab is at the top of the kuf pyramid, followed by other Arabs tribes, then non-Arabs, etc. -- all this within the broader Shem-Japheth-Ham tripartite classification of nations.

Point to note -- This pyramid is not based on racial purity, but rather on a combination of the right composition of racial bloodlines, and cultural/religious purity. Thus, certain "inter-caste" cross-breeding is considered desirable when the match is right according to the involved calculations of "kuf". Thus, a Malaysian with bona fide Arab bloodlines, whose Malaysian-Arab ancestors were conceived according to good kuf, and who is maintaining a deep connection with Arab-Islamic language, religion and culture would still be high-caste. You would also notice that among Moslems of the Indian subcontinent, having a "shajarah" -- "tree" (genealogy) record -- is a matter of pride, because it usually involves some Arab or at least Iranian or Turk blood ancestor.

The nearest matching view to this in Indic thought would be Madhva's tripartite classification of souls, and his theodicy which establishes that the karmic trajectory of jeevas in this world is related to their spiritual guNa (quality). Thus, just as the variegated behaviors of this material world are due to the permutations and combinations of the 3 primary guNas (sattva, rajas, tamas), so also the variegated destinations in the spiritual plane are the original archetypes of these lower material reflections. "As above so below", according to the Hermetic principle.

IMHO, such concepts do tend to be philosophically misunderstood a lot. Nevertheless, its worth noting that the Maadhvas are rigidly caste-bound. They won't even admit you to their "vyAsa-kUTa" method and school unless you are caste-brahmin by birth. They advise non-caste brahmins to take the "dAsa-kUTa" method which is what we know of the typical "bhakti" movement of mass Hinduism.

Although Madhvacharya was decisive on this point in his theodicy, it is definitely found to some extent or the other in all brahminical schools, and all of them are conservatively casteist. They all value bloodlines from one Rishi or the other, and only citing one's Gotra can open doors. Their concept is also a combination of bloodlines and acculturation. Like Islamists, they are also liberal and enthusiastic about acculturating others into the fold, albeit at a lower level as part of the flock. But they are also conservative, exclusive and particular about bloodlines, with an elaborate system to maintain genealogical records, etc.

So there are some pretty deep parallels between the cultural-religious traditions of the ME and India, and several other ancient religious-cultural traditions in the ancient world. Its only a matter of which word is used to denote what.

The person Priyadarshini whom you quote may be correct that Arabic "dhaat" --> Persian/Urdu "zaat" --> Indian "jaat". Because as I said the caste hierarchy is not solely based on racial purity, and so a limited word like "jaati" may not have been the prevalent term for the varNa concept in India (or the equivalent word for it in Arabia). But the Arabic word "dhaat" certainly does fit the bill, and that may have become "jaat" in India. Then, seeing how in practice "caste" has become purely based on birth in India, "jaat" may have been wrongly correlated to "jaati". Just an educated guess.

Also, linguists can add information about whether the Arabic "dhaat" itself came from Persian "zaat" in pre-Islamic times. Arabic did absorb a lot of vocabulary from the Persian/Avestan. E.g. the word "deen" is an Avestan (Zoroastrian) word, adopted by Islam.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by RajeshA »

Carl ji,

thank you very much for your detailed reply and efforts!

I think it is a interesting proposition that even though 'gotra' is an old concept in Indian traditions, "Jaati" as understood today may not be a system much older than say 600-800 years and was born out of Trade Guilds and Tribes. This is what Priyadarshini states from his analysis in various papers on the subject.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by ramana »

Carl and RajeshA, I was shocked in US by an old Sindhi lady who asked "what is your jaat?" She was migrant from TSP to US.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by ramana »

X-post...
shiv wrote:Video Iranians converting to Zoroatrianism? Revenge of the Aryans?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_beTQCH0qE
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by ramana »

A bit of old history of Iran region after Arab conquest:

Babak's Revolt by Patricia Crone
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

Some lessons from the histories of Babak Khorramdin, etc. -

Babak Khorramdin failed in his mission because his movement failed to present any credible religious-ideological alternative to Islamism - one that could supplant each and every meme with a comparable or better meme. So even though Islamism was being imposed by cruel robber-barons, many sections of Iranic society accepted it as a chastisement from a purer version of God than the crazy religious movements that had been sweeping Iran for the previous century. They just wanted freedom from Arab political and other kinds of oppression.

The Khorramdini movement was ignited by Abu Moslem, who himself vacillated on this point of religiously defining his campaign. He had the backing of the remnants of the Zoroastrian priesthood, and he took their support. But eventually he decided against making his movement an explicitly Zoroastrian movement because of other lobbies across Iranic and Arab lands. Besides, the Khurramidinis were supporters of weird heterodox schisms from Zoroastrianism, based more on an obsession with social justice than real inspiration and philosophy. Its quite the same scene in today's Iran.

When such strong counter-currents were sweeping across Iran, I wonder what Indians were doing. Did they have intel on what was going on? If they did, what were their views? They do not seem to have gotten militarily involved, or culturally involved, or even given "moral support", one way or the other. Any evidence of this?
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by ramana »

Carl , The long standing definition of Aryavarta as the dharmic karma bhoomi developed myopia that we see even today in Dilli Sarkar. So I bet no news of all the measures being perfected in Iran by Islamist mauraders. I was struck by how similar the measures were after the Ghorid conquests in North India.

Did you note how Iranian Shiaism builds on Khorramdini elements! Thats what gave stability to the Safavids onwards.
IOW Iranian Shiaism is a melding of the Arab Shiaism with many concepts from local Iranian ideas.
The Khorramidini appear to be Buddhists(non-violence) with Tantric ideas.Their hamartia is that they couldnt face religiouisly sanctioned violence with non-violence.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

ramana ji,

Yes, modern Iranian Shi'ism has come back full circle to the neurotic ideologies of the Iranian past. I find in many Shi'a circles here, the laity (mostly Arab and Paki Shi'a) are distancing themselves from Khomeinist Shi'ism and moving towards leaders like Sistani. I've noticed that many new Paki Shi'a Ayatollahs are also being groomed.

If it were just non-Iranian Shi'a it would be understandable. But even many devout Iranian Shi'a are rejecting the kinks of their ideology - and gravitating to a slightly better forms of shi'ism or even a flat out Sunni-like ideology.

Is India providing any alternative? Indic spirituality is widespread and popular within Iran and among Iranian diaspora. But is there any systematic effort to organize this? No. Instead, I find Persian Sufi schools incorporating Indic memes and re-packaging it Islamically.

Iranian consulates in India are very active in organizing cultural symposia and disseminating material on the shared Indo-Iranian culture (all post-Islamic). Do Indian consulates in Iran do anything similar? Nope. Oh I forgot - they once did a gig on Fereshteh, another post-Islamic Persian dude who wrote about India from an Islamist perspective. Even if they wanted to focus on post-Islamic Iran, do we do any symposia on how so many Iranian scientists, philosophers, etc. freely borrowed from Indian sources? E.g. Razi, Farabi, etc. They even openly acknowledge that they consider the view of the "barhamaa" schools to be the best. In Persian, "barhaman" means "Brahmin", or perhaps "barhamaa" could refer to "Brahma"? Whatever it was, the strong link is there. Razi even said there wasn't a single thing in the Qur'an that was worth anything. Yet, in most Islamist propaganda, these people are paraded as poster boys for "Islamic science blooming when Europe was in the Dark Ages". Many medieval Persian works even try to directly quote the Sanskrit books they borrow from. Any such symposia by Indians showing this reverse effect of India on Islamic Persia? I haven't yet come across any.

While modern Persian Moslem spiritual and other organizations are incorporating and "digesting" Indic memes, they also simultaneously put out false stereotypes about Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. E.g., "Hindu yogis sit on a bed of nails and perform self-inflicted pain, Hindus run away from women, Buddhism is world-negating", etc. So their argument is, "Let's take the good stuff from there, but Islamism is still the most correct, balanced and sensible ideology." Any organized efforts by Indians to disseminate a better and more accurate picture of the whole spectrum of Indian thought? Is there any Indian equivalent of the British Library or the USIS? There really ought to be, because there is considerable interest in India in some countries, such as Iran. The Indian consulate there is kept busy issuing tourist and education visas, perhaps they could also set up an Indian cultural center-cum-library in select Iranian cities? Would that be too much to ask?
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by ramana »

You dont get JLN maya do you. GOI is secular so it wont promote anything Hindu but will extol about Sufi and Buddhist tradtions. Try to read the MEA journal Prespectives to get an idea.

But dont despair. Islam is a ausric cult and like all cults will get exposed and die off once human minds are aware of it.

In the above pdf on Babak's revolt see how the commoners who had no stake in the land sided with the Arabs to defeat Babak! For them it was to over thorw old order to get a place in the sun. But once they get into the new oorder there is no sun at all. Only darkness.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

Well OK, then MEA should at least do a better job of representing Buddhist traditions in Iran.

In any case, I think India ought to start thinking along the lines of a British Library or US Information Service or Alliance Francaise concept. A well-branded Indian Cultural Center featuring a library, arts and other cultural activities. Such a center would be closely ties with the Indian consulate in different countries, probably part of the portfolio of the cultural attache or some such position at the embassies. In addition to knowledge of history, art, religion, science, etc., this institution would also host preparatory material for students seeking to study in India, or tourists wishing to visit India for cultural tourism (rather than just chilling out at Goa, for instance). The center would also host a visa processing center. The center would organize seminars and arts festivals regularly, and become a cultural hotspot in whichever town or city it was set up. Such an institution would find active patronage in many countries, Iran being only one such.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by RamaY »

In hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh, Banjara Hills Road no. 5 (IIRC) is named as Khomaini Road recently in memory of the great Ayatullah. Why this road? The Iranian consulate office is located there.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

RamaY ji, the Iranians are very pro-active and aggressive. Their Hyd consulate is bigger than the one in New Delhi. Why?

1. Because there are tons of Irani immigrants in Hyd of a specific type - they are devout and in most cases their women wear the chador. So they are still very loyal or at least can be used by the regime.

2. Also, Hyd has a Shi'a Iranian past under the Qutb Shahis, and even the Asif Jahis had close relations with Iran. So they have a lot of traction with the Indian Moslems there. Its not uncommon to find articles in the Hyderabadi Urdu newspapers with a dreamy-eyed admiration of all things Iranian. Many such articles are specific plants from the Iranian consulate there.

3. It is also a fashion among certain sections in the Old City area to have an Irani wife. The trafficking of Iranian women to Hyderabad - mostly as wives and sometimes as prostitutes - is significant.

4. The Iranian expat community there has also thrown up some who have entered the political arena! E.g. Jilani Bano.

5. Lastly, Hyd has an interesting geostrategic location, along with Bangalore.

There are 3 types of Iranians that emigrate and settle in India, Europe Malaysia, and the US/Canada:
1. Those who want to escape the regime and they are anti-regime - either actively or sympathetic to anti-regime forces.
2. Those who want to enjoy parts of life which they cannot in Iran, but who are apolitical. E.g., businessmen, some students, etc.
3. Devout Shi'a Moslems who are very active. Some of these even come to the US, right into the belly of the beast, so to speak.

Hyderabad is a hub for category #3 type of Iranian immigrants within India.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by pentaiah »

Hyderabad used to be the capital of Irani restaurants and a good number of Baha'i faith Iranians were seen everywhere,. There used to be Irania Medical hall with Homeopathy specialization near monda market next to Gandhi hospital Secunderabad.
Alpha Hotel is famous of all Irani restaurant till late 70s all Irani restauants used to prominently display the Shah and his wife, proabaly due to Savak?

in 1968 Shah of Iran gave the commencement address to OU graduates in the Garden in front of Arts college

after that the decline of OU started with Telangana agitation , naxals etc
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by ramana »

Wasnt it 1969? I was there in NCC.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by pentaiah »

you are correct ramana ji
Honorary degrees were confered on 1)Sir Imad-ul-Mulk a brilliant pioneer in education 1925, First recepient.2)Dr.Rabendra Nath Tagore 1938.According to Narendra Luther IAS former chief secretary Andhra Pradesh, Dr.Tagore opened Shantineketan to facilitate his grand children's education.Shantineketan became a show case for learning.3)Sir Mohammed Iqbal 1938 4)Sarojini Devi Naidu 1947 5)Dr.C.V.Raman 1947, 6) Jawaher Lal Nehru 1948, 7)Sardar Patel 1949, 8 )Ali Yawer Jung 1956, 9)Dr.Zakir Hussain 1968, 10)King Hussain Of Jordan, 11)Shah Iran 1969 ,12)Yasser Arfath, 13)Shaikh Zaki Yamni (Oil Minister Saudi Arabia), and others.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

This is to initiate a discussion on Ali Shari'ati, per Brihaspati ji's request. Please let me know if this is not the best thread for this.

Ali Shari'ati and his sociology of religion

Ali Shari'ati is held as one of the most influential Iranian intellectuals of the 20th century and has been called the 'ideologue of the Iranian Revolution'. Shariati's works were highly influenced by the Third Worldism that he encountered as a student in Paris — ideas that class war and revolution would bring about a just and classless society — from one side, and the Islamic puritanism (or the Islamic Reformation) movements of his time from the other side.

He is said to have adopted the idea of Gharbzadegi from Jalal Al-e Ahmad and given it "its most vibrant and influential second life." Jalal Al-e-Ahmad had invented the term "Gharbzadegi" which means "awestruck with all things Western", and a sort of Persian social equivalent for what we call Macaulayism in India. It is still used widely in Iran - as a political accusation by conservatives, and even as a sort of guilt-sharing and mutual warning among the "reformist" types.

But before he was exiled in France, Shariati's essays showed a developing eclecticism and acquaintance with the ideas of modern Islamic and secular thinkers such as Jamal al-Din al-Afghani, Muhammad Iqbal, Sigmund Freud and Alexis Carrel.

He sought to translate these ideas into cultural symbols of Shi'ism that Iranians could relate to. He believed Shia should not merely await the return of the 12th Imam but should actively work to hasten his return by fighting for social justice, "even to the point of embracing martyrdom", saying "everyday is Ashoura, every place is Karbala." Shariati had a dynamic view about Islam. His ideology about Islam is closely related to Allama Iqbal's ideology; for example, according to both intellectuals, change is the greatest law of nature and Islam.

Shariati referred to his brand of Shiism as "red Shiism" which he contrasted with clerical-dominated, unrevolutionary "black Shiism" or Safavid Shiism. His ideas have been compared to the Catholic Liberation Theology movement founded in South America by Peruvian Gustavo Gutierrez and Brazilian Leonardo Boff.

I will add more info later if the discussion develops.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by brihaspati »

^^^Does Marxism change his islamism, or islamism changes his marxism? Does this represent a weakness of Shi-ism or a strength? How does he adopt the fundamental theoretization of Marxism or leftist social analysis to shia-ism :
(1) dialectics and dialectical materialism
(2) historical materialism
(3) the base-superstructure model
(4) theory of state
(5) ownership of means of production [+theory of surplus value+and land ownership]

These would be issues where some fundamental suras of the core text will clash. Any insight? His name cropped up in certain circles that worries a bit. A red-green line is emerging or sought to be started.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

B ji,
> Does Marxism change his islamism, or islamism changes his marxism? Does this represent a weakness of Shi-ism or a strength?

Alevi Shi'ism (the Shi'ism during the time of Ali and Hossein) has certain constant themes:
1. Social awareness and fighting against the oppressor of the era,
2. Contempt for organized, institutionalized religion,
3. Some mystical angles as opposed to external religiosity,
4. Cult-like devotion to certain ideals and people,
5. Communist-like treatment of wealth by redistribution and emphasis on a show of spartan frugality by the powerful,
6. A theme of constant revolution,
Etc.

So there is plenty of material for an Islamist Marxism within Shi'ism. Other strands of Islam are the opposite.

Moreover, within Shi'ism, post-Safavid Shi'ism in Iran presents a different scene of Theological Monarchy, and an institutionalized Shah-Bazargan-Akhoond (king, mercantiles, mollas) nexus to for social and political control. So now within Shi'ism also there was dissent.

So between the twists and turns of Islamic history, one can find supporting material for different modern ideologies. It may be a strength of Shi'ism and Islamism in general. Islamists have often marketed themselves as "Communism plus Allah" to leftist movements, whereas they market themselves as supporting all the founding principles of the American Constitution to proponents of "American Islam." Either way, it finds an entry point, and offers itself as a powerful carrier and so attracts these other ideologues. But once in, it usually changes its form later and eats its rider.

When I'm done with work I will find more material on each of the other points you raised. Meanwhile, here's something to read. Note: All articles written by Iranians must be understood to have strong bias depending on which camp they fall into today.

Divine mass psychology: Ali Shariati haunts the reform movement even today
by Kia Atri, December 11, 2005
There are several discernible features of a cult or cult like behaviour that are known to us. The cult creates a parallel world with parallel moralities and parallel realities. It is manipulative because it relies on mass psychology in order to sustain and enrich its introverted and sect like behaviour. It has its own rituals and traditions. It is a distortion of either an existing religion or a new and fabricated one. Its oxygen of publicity is recruitment and its recruitment tactic involves gently coaxing people to its world view. Above all its leading propagators are people of questionable character and questionable conduct.

The accepted wisdom on Ali Shariati is that he was a Muslim Reformist intellectual; he is even known as the Martin Luther of Shia Islam or the precursor of Islamic Protestantism. The motion presented to this forum by this essay is that Shariati was a despicable cultist and charlatan. The political grouping ideologically closest to Shariati namely the Mojahedin Khalgh has displayed disturbing signs of this cult like behaviour. This is no accident there is a clear cut reason for this. We will explore those reasons here.

Our point of embarkation must be the point at which Shariati ideologically departs from Al-e-Ahmad. Both belonged to a two-some mutual admiration club. A club whose unwritten article of faith was the 'Return to Oneself'. If you remember from my Al-e-Ahmad article I argued that he advocated a bizarre form of Nativism. He held this to be the right anti-dote to the Westoxification (Gharb-zadegi) brought about by import of Western culture and the advent Machinism. Neither of these people are of course the real authors of this thesis; for that you need to read Franz Fanon's 'Wretched of the Earth'. As with every thing else they simply took his idea and refashioned it to their own ideological sensibility. Shariati was a friend of Fanon and even Fanon had smelled a rat when Shariati had talked about his Islamic return to oneself (another story another fallacy).

Shariati fully concurred with Al-e-Ahmad that the Iranians must return to their traditional past in general and their Islamic past in particular. He was not interested in Iran's pre-Islamic past because he felt that the Iranians had been totally indifferent towards that pre-Islamic past (besides which Iran's Pre-Islamic past was more of a Pahlavist discourse). His odyssey was one of returning to the real Islamic past which he held to be insurrectionist, socially aware, pervaded by activism (as opposed to quietism) and Revolutionary!

Up to now he is at one with Al-e-Ahmad but where he departs from Al-e-Ahmad is on his position towards the Clergy. Whereas Al-e-Ahmad revered the likes of the grotesque Sheikh Fazllollah Nouri (also endorsed by Ayatollah Khomeni) Shariati ostensibly despised him.

Shariati held that the Iranian Shia clergy had now become entwined with the establishment and the Bazaar (which paid it stipends and religious dues). This close liaison, he held, dates back to the Safavids who needed the clergy to legitimate and sustain their new Shia Theocratic Monarchy and consolidate power.

The consequence of this unholy alliance, argued Shariati, has been the institutionalisation of the Shia religion which has traditionally been revolutionary and socially responsible. Bereft of all independence from the state it has lost all its will to rise against social and economic injustice, towards egalitarianism and empathy for fellow Muslims. In fact the whole set of insurrectionist and socially aware discourse of the Allawi Shi'ism (the revolutionary Shi'ism espoused by Imam Ali-Ibn-Abi-Taaleb) has been replaced by a ritualistic and idolatrous form of Shia religion which acts as 'the opiate of the people'. It is not too difficult to see the influences of Ahmad Kasravi with a Marxian rhetoric thrown in for good measure on the beliefs of this former Mossadeghist.

Even as a detractor I would probably be doing a disservice to this man if I did not try to put this anti-Clerical aspect of his teachings in some political perspective. Shariati was a former Mossadeghist who like Al-e-Ahmad suffered from the post '53 angst. A former member of the 'Society of God-worshiping Socialists' which later on founded the Iran people's party and an active member of the Iran National Front (Jebhe-Melli-Iran), Shariati was later to join the Nehzat-e-Azaadi under Mohandess Bazargan. The torment of political defeat and the failure of Mossadeghism to lead the anti-colonial struggle within the confines of the Constitution led some people (notably Shariati) to soul search and come up with a new blueprint to mobilise the now cowed and quiet masses.

After many years of soul searching and reflection it was perceived (notably by Bazargan) that for the masses to be mobilised against the might of the Pahlavi State, Islam can be used as the language of this discourse. A language that the masses understand and can relate to. Iranian history has been littered with cases of appealing to the religious sensibilities of Iranians for political ends.

If however Bazargan and the his fellow elder Mossadeghist statesmen wanted to reform the system within the legal framework of the Constitution, Shariati was of a more insurrectionist persuasion. Shariati rightly sensed the increasingly radicalised atmosphere of youth politics. A radicalising atmosphere which looked to the Armed struggles in Central America and South-East Asia and chose to emulate them.

A romantic and often apocalyptic vision of defiance imbued with Marxist thinking. Which Marxist thinking was often at odds with the temperament and religious sensibilities of the Iranian people. To resolve this dilemma he finally came to the conclusion that in order for the people to be led and the largely secular intellectuals to lead his only hope is to infuse Marxist Social theory and Islamic moral teachings together. In other words his eclectic (Elteghaati) synthesis of two radically opposing philosophies appealed to both the radical intellectuals and the masses.

This is why Shariati was anti-clerical; he needed to de-robe the clergy. He needed the ideological garb that would usually be the preserve of the clergy in Iran. He was treading on their turf as indeed he was treading on the turf of the secular so called intellectuals who were of a Marxist persuasion. If he railed at the regressive practices of the clergy it was not out of a propensity to reform but coveting the exalted moral position that they held. A position that we today know they did not deserve and he deserved even less.

Shariati was from a religious family. He himself had conducted academic research in Paris on 'History of Medieval Islam' where he obtained his Doctorate. It is unimaginable that he might have erred on essential questions over which he was in dispute with the traditional clergy. There is mounting evidence to refute Shariati's claim that Islam was the religion of egalitarianism. The clergy could prove with relative impunity that Islam had not treated all man equally.

There were palpable differences between the way the Believers and Non-believers were treated. There were palpable differences between the way men and women were treated in Islam. The practice of polygamy which the clergy could allude to and which had been sanctioned by Islam was a precedent. Even within the Islamic Umma Islam had differentiated between those who had Ijtihad (theological authority) and those who did not. Islam had for centuries sanctioned private property and was even entwined with the feudal order. Its recommendations are far removed from the Socialist discourse that Shariati and Mojahedin Khalgh wanted to project.

If Shariati's attempted theft of the Cleric's domain was suspect his Islamic Marxism was even more so. His philosophical strategy for synthesising Islam with Marxism was simple: remove the Materialist basis of Marxism and replace it with Islamic morality while accepting evolutionary progress. If Marxists believe that Capitalism is a by-product of Socio-Economic evolution and the contradictions that eventuate are at the core of worker's class struggle against the Capitalists; Shariati contended that this contradiction was more of a moral nature. He would then explain in a quasi-Hegelian fashion that the genesis of this moral hazard is to be sought in the evolution of human thought and what he called 'belief classes' in particular.

So where the Marxists argue that the prehistoric Communistic societies would give way to Asiatic slave owning societies then to a feudal order and then Capitalism; he would argue that this evolution is more applicable to 'belief classes' of which the clergy would be its most pernicious manifestation. The overthrow of this 'belief class' would then give rise to a true revolutionary Allawi Shi'ism. In other words he had distorted Marxism completely on questionable moral grounds (See Ali Rahnema). This man was not even a moral Socialist he was a moral Marxist.

When Luther nailed his polemic against the buying of 'Indulgences' and going to the 'Purgatory' (to gain absolution in day of judgement) at the door of Wittenberg Cathedral; he was counting on the support of the King. As Doctor Ervand Abrahamian quite rightly argues (see radical Islam, the Iranian Mujahedin) both he and John Calvin enlisted the support of the local king against Papal cannon. The equivalent as he rightly argues would be for Shariati to enlist the support of the Shah against the clergy in Qom.

When people come to level what can only be described as justified but misguided criticism against Shariati; they simply treat this aspect of Shariati's discourse as an error of judgement. It takes a huge leap of faith to accept that this is simply an 'error of judgment'. Shariati's whole objective was to call for an insurrection against the regime of the Shah. The nature of this enterprise required the usage of Islam as the language of this discourse which every one can understand and relate to.

If now Islam becomes the tool at the service of this enterprise and the means of acquiring this tool would be to dispossess the clergy by reformism; then appealing to the temporal authority of the Shah is irrelevant nay self defeating. In other words in case of Luther and Calvin Reformism was the end and enlisting the King's support the means. In case of Shariati the overthrow of the Shah was the end and reformism was the means. Talking of Islamic reformism without temporal support is not error of judgement; it is a judgement which is fully mindful of this incompatibility of circumstances. Truth is that reformism, which is now a means to an end; has to be corrupted to suit the end itself.

Why should Islam be reformed in the direction of Socialism? Why? Because of the universality of socialism as the ultimate truth? Or is it because the student movement was dominated by a Marxist discourse? Would Islamic reformism today embrace Marxian values in its reforming crusade or is Civil Society the new aspiration? When Luther had nailed his pamphlet he was raging against the corrupt practices of the clergy who were generating a not too modest personal income for themselves. Which personal income was legitimated by the church backed by Rome. This is universally and morally reprehensible by any yardstick. Socialism was controversial even in those days. When Shariati was advancing his Islamic reform in the direction of Socialism he was adapting the nature of that reform for clear political ends.

The truth is that if the conceived reality is revolutionary Marxism then parallel reality is an eclectic and islamified version of Marxism. This is exactly what Shariati offered his audience. An ideology that is Marxist enough for the intelligentsia and Islamic enough for the urban poor.

Shariati was not only aware of what he was doing but also needed to fabricate an alternative narrative for Islam in order to mobilise the masses to his political calling. He HAD to create a parallel world with parallel realities and parallel moralities in order to legitimate his position. There would be no other way to do it.

Furthermore Shariati used mass psychology to manipulate people to his way of thinking. The tool of this mass psychology was again Islam. Islam (and its Shia variant in particular) is a religion built upon a great deal of myth. The myth of martyrdom, the myth of heroism against overwhelming odds, the myth of tears and blood. The myth of outstanding generosity and self sacrifice. His sermons at Hosseineyeh delivered with his poetic oratory and appealing to the basest emotions of his audience are a case in point.

The other case in point is that his eclectic synthesis of Marxism with Islam was not only the creation of a parallel reality but also a deviant attempt at manipulation. His audiences were initially not Muslim militants but Marxist and left leaning secularists. It would be extremely hard to sell Islam and the thesis of return to oneself as a progressive and forward looking idea to a largely university educated audience imbued with Marxist and secularist values. In order to sell Islam to them he would have to fashion that Islam into a conceptual product (namely Marxism) that they can buy. His manipulative oratory allowed him to reconcile a meta-physical analysis with a materialist ideology. His strength was reading the mass psyche and tapping into that with the right language both emotionally and intellectually.

In this fashion he would forgo some very important questions on the flaws in his philosophy: if Islam had been such a potent revolutionary ideology why would it fall prey to the parasitic clergy and bureaucracy? The standard belief is that Shariati's outlook was simply naive. I do not believe that he was naïve for if he was he would have, like Al-e-Ahmad, embraced the clergy; instead he rightly saw the clergy as his opponents. The reality in my view is that far from being naïve and flawed he was exercising mass deception.

One might ask that even if this writer's claim about Shariati being a cultist is correct what value is added in saying so? The answer is simple; what is based on a lie is dangerous because it is oblivious to the dark forces it unleashes. It does so simply because of the very irresponsible manner of its propagation. When Luther and Calvin embarked on their reforming enterprise they were both theologians with scholastic authority. Shariati was not. He was refashioning the traditional discourse of the clergy from outside the mosque. It is an act of reckless irresponsibility to risk the propagation of an ideology which can only result in the resurgence of the Mullahs.

Moreover and this is where the cultist aspect of this ideology is exacting a high price; another of the discernible features of cult like behaviour is that its practices become so ingrained in the psyche of its adherents that it becomes very hard to break out of. Today and despite so many years of intense suffering from the Islamist ideology we have people such as Aghajari who continue to talk about a religious government. It is precisely 'religious government' that has caused so much problems in the first place. We need to move beyond Reform of Islamic state and move towards secularism. It seems though that some people are still hooked on the notion of Islamic Democracy and Islamic Civil Society. This is the other aspect of this cult like behaviour. Dr Shariati is haunting even the reform movement today from his grave.

If you are still not convinced by my arguments ask yourself this question: why should the culture of Mojahedin Khalgh be so prone to cult of personality? One answer is of course the savage repression that this organisation has suffered. A culture of grief breeds its own myths and fantasies. The more coherent response though is that its ideology is based upon deviant distortions that suspend normal scepticism and is tailor made for manipulation.

I shall leave you with this sobering fact about Shariati. He was often asked difficult questions in his lectures about various aspects of his discourse. When ever he could not back up his theories by authoritative works he would cite quotations from a certain philosopher by the name of Dr Chandel. This philosopher was another one of his fabrications. Chandel did not exist at all. Chandel is another word for candle or the Persian 'Shami'.

If you break down the word Shami it comprises of the Persian letters: Shin, Mim and Eyn. The Shin stands for Shariati, the Mim stands for Mazinani and the Eyn stands for Ali. He was in effect acquiring scholarly credibility by supposed quotations from a non-existent character: professor Chandel. Dr Rahnema argues that this is the product of a fictive mind. I contend that this is the product of a deceptive and manipulative mind. In short I submit to this forum that Ali Shariati-Mazinani was a charlatan for all seasons.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

Another point to note: It could also be a weakness of Shi'ism, because post-Safavid and modern day Islamic Republic Shi'ism is railed against by people, including shari'ati. Some of his other idols like Ahmad Kasravi wanted to do away with many pillars of Shi'ite theology which left it looking exactly like Sunni theology! So it may be a weak point of Shi'ite political power because a counter-revolution could come from within its own historical ideology. But in my mind the net result of this would be a merger of modern political Shi'ism with Sunni Islamism.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

Shariati and Marx: A Critique of an "Islamic" Critique of Marxism

The article critiques one of Shari'atis famous booklets/pamphlets. Posting some excerpts which relate to the points Bji listed above.
First : The Western philosophies — Western liberalism, Existentialism, and Marxism — do possess an humanistic perspective. But their conception of humanism is materialistic. In general, the text, which is a critique of the existing humanist philosophies including Marxism, draws upon a radical Islamic conception of man. On the whole the book consists of four major themes which will be discussed in turn.

According to the text, Western humanism rests firmly upon the mythological perspective of ancient Greece. In this perspective there exists a constant struggle between humanity and the gods who want to maintain man in darkness and ignorance. Here, man is praised and is given a high value in contrast to the gods. This humanism, therefore, establishes a distance between man and god. The text argues that all these great humanists -from Diderot and Voltaire to Feuerbach and Marx - have indeed equated the Greek gods which are tyrannical and anti-human with the spiritual conceptions of God such as Ahurmazda, Rama, the Tao, the Messiah and Allah. Since these philosophers have wrongly generalized the Greek contradistinction of human versus God and spirituality, their humanism is earthly, un-heavenly and in a word materialistic. No wonder the communist societies are not much different from the bourgeois ones in their conception of man. In both, everything culminates in man; both disregard "the spiritual dimension of the human essence". Western humanism is considered atheist in another sense, for it considers man to possess, as his human nature, a moral conscience which determines his moral values and which acts as a substitute for God. The text contends that Western humanist philosophies which postulate a distance between man and God are ignorant of the Eastern religions such as Hinduism, Islam and sufism. These religions are based upon the unity (not distance) between God and man, thus their humanism is heavenly.

Second : Even though, the text goes on, we may concede that the Western humanist and intellectual currehts may possess in their theories a liberating principle, in practice, they have lost this aspect of their reality. Take, for instance, Marxism which promised to liberate man from the inhumanity of capitalism. In reality, it shared quite the same attitudes towards man as capitalism, i.e., adherence to mundane prosperity, materialism, consumerism, etc. On the other hand, religions such as Christianity, Islam and Taoism too declined from the liberating ideologies into the bureaucratic, power-hungry and materialistic church or clericalism, to mass formalities, taboos and superstitions. Similarly, the spirit of the Renaissance (which meant liberation of spirit, of science, and of the intellect) turned into capitalism, scientism and liberalism characterized by egoism, opportunism and consumption, and in which faith, ideas, love, the meaning of existence and man did not get attention.

Third : Since Marxism, unlike other Western ideologies, is a comprehensive ideology, dealing with economics, politics, ethics, history, philosophy, etc. , it is the strongest rival to Islam and must be- dealt with thoroughly. The text, then, takes the major philosophical issues of Marxism to d i s t i n g u i sh it from Islam. To begin with, like other Western humanist schools, the text claims that Marx's critique of religion is based upon the Greek humanist philosophy which sees opposition, rather than u n i t y, between God and man. Islamic understanding, on the contrary, is derived from the conception of tawhid, unity. Religion, in Marx, goes beyond rationality and signifies the helplessness of man. Whereas we in Islam, the author asserts, believe that conceptions
of heaven and hell are rational and scientific. On the other hand, Marx basing his argument on the conceptions of infra-structure and super-structure, views man as a part of the latter reducing
him to the tools, considering religion, ethics, morality, man's virtues as determined by economic forces. Hence, man has no independent and noble reality -- an idea that Islam totally rejects.

In quite the same fashion, the author charges Marx with not giving man any significant place in history. In Marxist theory, the text goes on, man is logically incapable since he is the creation of
his environment. Historical changes are not the outcome of man's role, but of the contradiction between the forces and the relations of production. If that is the case, the text wonders, what about all these martyrs in history, upheavals and revolutions.

Finally, this Marxism which boasts to be the ruthless critique of capitalism has ended up sharing the same values w i th it. Both systems, capitalism and communism, are in practice based upon "productivism", "mechanism","techno-bureaucracy", "acquisitiveness", "economic competition" and "materialism". What is now being criticized as Stalinism is in fact a continuation of Leninism and eventually Marxism itself.

What distinguishes socialism from capitalism is that in the latter a (bourgeois) ruling class owns or controls the means of production, whereas in the former, the state takes control.

Fourth : Only Islam, the text contends, possesses true humanism. In Islam, humanism is a collection of the divine values in man that constitute his morals and religious cultural heritage. Drawing on the Islamic concept of tawhid, man is viewed as a contradictory being possessing the dual essence of clay and divine spirit, of dust and God, and the will to choose one over the other. It follows that, first, in Islam man has a nobility not on its own but only in relation to God; secondly, man has a destiny; thirdly, man has a choice. Possession of choice confers upon man a responsibility to elevate himself from being dust towards union with God (this is very similar to the Hegelian concept of absolute idea which evolves from nothingness to becoming everything). This responsibility or mas'uliat for Shariati is a highly critical concept as he tends to extend its implications from the realm of philosophy and theology to that of politics. Thus, he implicitly calls upon the Third World masses in general and the Muslims in particular, to elevate themselves from captivity to become the "regents of God on earth", to deliverance. (This approach is also similar to Marx's Hegelian metaphor of the development of class from being "in itself" to that "for itself).

Responsibility to liberate ourselves, meanwhile, implies self-reliance; more precisely it means cultural, political, and strategic self-reliance which in plain political language manifests the strategy of "neither East nor West", neither capitalism nor communism, but "return to self'.

One of the slogans of the revolution was "la sharghieh la gharbieh, eslamiyeh eslamiyeh" - "Not east, not west, (only) islamic! islamic!" The "neither east nor west" phrase is from one of the most famous ayats of the Qur'an, which describes Allah as a Light, from Surah al-Noor.

So Shariati's views follows the familiar line of Islam = Marxism + God. As well as the positioning of Islam as the perfect balance, containing the virtues of Greek and Hindu civilization, and without either of their faults.

The author of the above article adds his own critique, some excerpts posted below:
Without doubt the text appears to exhibit a powerful critique, from an Islamic vantage point, of the Western humanist philosophies, in particular of Marxism. The text gives the impression that it has been written by an author who, while Alif 10 (1990) deeply involved in his own indigenous intellectual traditions, seems to be well aware of the rival European intellectual currents.

Back in the late 1970s in Tehran, the Husseinieh Center, an uncharacteristically modern "mosque" in an affluent northern part of Tehran (Gholhak) where Shariati delivered his lectures, would be overflowing with people, not just the radical Muslims, but also the leftists. At that time, we could not conceal our admiration for Shariati's knowledge of Marxism. Perhaps his seemingly profound critique, combined with his radical political stand, made Shariati appear to be the most influential revolutionary thinker in recent Iranian history. Marxism and Other Western Fallacies, however, contains some important methodological shortcomings combined with a serious misreading of Marx —the focal point of the text.

[...]

One major argument of the text against Marxism is related to the latter's conception of religion and man. We summarized Shariati's contention above. His critique in this regard appears to me to be methodologically problematic. First, as Shariati acknowledges, Marx's conception of religion was materialistic. According to Marx, certain socio-economic circumstances would shape the religious ideas, structures and their evolution ( Marx indeed was quite critical of Feuerbach whose analysis of Christianity was theological and not social ). But the text does not try to offer an argument to refute the validity of Marx's above mentioned theory.

Secondly, in his critique of religion, Marx generally refers to social implications or social principles of Christianity at the time when, as Ali Shariati would agree, the church's conservative role in relation to the subordinated classes was far from complex. It is true, Marx's knowledge of religion was limited to Christianity and Judaism. He was not very familiar with the 26 Alif 10 (1990)Eastern religions: Islam, Hinduism, Taoism, etc. A tenable criticism of Marx should be based upon his limited knowledge of world religions. Indeed many of the critiques of Marx tend to generalize his conception of religion and then criticize him on this score. This kind of criticism is obviously an invalid one. In addition such a generalization is plainly functionalist and not Marxist, as Marx's methodology is founded upon the idea of contradiction.

Indeed, Marxists who adhere to historical materialism, such as E.P. Thompson, George Thomson, Paul Sweezy and Paul Baran '° do not hesitate to acknowledge that every religious movement has both a progressive and reactionary trust. Thus, George Thomson as early as 1949 declares that "there are two Christs, one of the rulers, and one of the toilers" ' '. Certainly, Ali Shariati's categorization of Safavid shiite (the establishment shiite) and Alavid shiite (combatant and mass's shiite) is not so dissimilar to Thomson's view of Christianity.
[...]
It is because of understanding of such a contradiction, and of the dual character of religious movements that such Marxists as Klugmann in Britain, Paul Baran and Paul Sweezy in the U.S.A. have now started a dialogue with progressive Christianity.

In dealing with Marx's notion of man and religion, the book concentrates its critique heavily on Marx's conception of infra-structure and super-structure. I find the text's interpretation of these concepts highly simplistic. The text almost exclusively draws on one of Marx's often quoted and short (some two pages) texts, namely, the Preface to the Introduction to the Critique of Political Economy , in which Marx formulated, but by no means elaborated, his theory of historical materialism. Shariati appears to have failed to understand that all the elements of "super-structure" including religion, ethics, politics, culture, morality, etc. are not so much determined as conditioned by the economic base of the mode of production, by the means of production.

Thus, Shariati contends, religion, culture and humanity are supposedly reduced to tools. However, this does not seem to be what Marx states. A reading of Marx in his totality suggests that t h is "super-structure" is conditioned (not determined) by the economic base. Besides, this relationship between "super-structure" and "base" is by no means one way, but dialectical, that is , the ideas , religion, culture, etc. have diverse effects on the "economic base" too '. Interestingly, the author does acknowledge in some parts of the text that Marx recognizes the role of ideology, awareness, and human ethics. However, failing to locate these in the general Marxist scheme, Shariati claims that Marx is inconsistent. The same argument holds true in relation to the role of man versus history, and I shall not elaborate on that.

[...]

It must be stated that the kinds of criticism briefly discussed above of Marxism — namely, the one relating to concepts of "super-" and "infra-structure", the occurrence of revolutions, the role of man in history, the conception of man, the practice of socialism, etc.-- are not new. The big names of Western academia, non-Marxist and Marxist alike such as Karl Popper, Ralph Dahrendorf, Daniel Bell, Herbert Marcuse, to mention only a few, have already settled accounts with Marx. What is original in Shariati's approach is his attempt to counterpose Islam as a comprehensive religion, philosophy and an intellectual current to Marxism. He attempts to offer an alternative Islamic conception of man defined and operational in an alternative Islamic society; that is, Islamic humanism conceives the nobility of man not in relation to himself, but in relation to God. This original contention, however, continues throughout the book to remain an assertion; it is not discussed, nor elaborated, nor substantiated.
So basically Shariati was proposing that Islam offers a process - a process by which man can follow a gradient path to realize the self, a path from oneself to Oneself, as they say in Persian Sufism. This path, he says, begins with man acquiring nobility based not on his material self, but on his relationship with God. He criticizes the material dialectics and the base-superstructure paradigm of Marx, even though he acknowledges that man does posses that infrastructural component, which must immediately be hitched to obedience to God. How exactly that is to be done, he does not explain. Who or what determines that nobility in society? What measurable "infrastructural" unit can be used to measure Islamic nobility? Moreover, at least contemporary Iranian thinkers like Al-e-Ahmad were honest enough to become admirers of the Shi'ite priesthood, who would logically be the ones to decide the relative nobility of people in society, as per the Islamic process. But Shari'ati was supposedly a reformist, against the traditional clergy. Perhaps that was only taqiyyah, because he criticized them for being in the pocket of the shahs and bazargan, and not revolutionary enough.

In effect, Shari'ati was saying that Islam offers a process whereas Marxism did not. But it was based on a wrong understanding of some of Marx's concepts, and no explanation of how this Islamic process was supposed to practically work. He only harked back to the days of Ali and his companions like Abu Dharr Ghifari, whom he called the First God-worshipping Socialist.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

B ji, if you were hearing increased talk of Ali Shariati in certain circles then that is interesting. Point to note -- the main idealogical group based on Shariati was not the current Khomeinist regime, it was the Mojahedin e Khalq. The MeK has just been de-listed as terrorist org by GOTUS. It's been on the cards now for a few months...

Clinton to remove Iranian exile group from terror list
Agnimitra
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

This petition will be delivered to:
Educational Institutions, Publishers, Media, et al.

Stop mislabeling Medieval Iranian Arts & Architecture as "Islamic"
Dear Sir/Madam:

It has become a trend of falsehood for museums, universities, publications, and the like to refer to medieval Iranian arts and architecture post-Arab Muslim invasion of 7th century up to the Safavid dynasty (1501-1736) -- all of which were a continuation of its ancient civilization (Achaemenid, Seleucid, Parthian and Sasanian dynasties covering 550 BCE-651 CE) – as the nonsensical “Islamic arts and architecture.”

According to an important scholar in the field of historiography, the 14th century Tunisian-born Andalusian historian Ibn Khaldun, in his book entitled The Muqaddimah: An Introduction to History: “Islam had no sciences or crafts, because of the simple conditions and the desert attitude.” Further, Ibn Khaldun states that most scholars, writers, linguistic experts, philosophers, intellectuals and artisans (religious or secular) were non-Arabs (Persians).

The fact that Islam had no arts or architecture prior to Arab Muslim invasion of Sasanian Persian Empire and Byzantine Empire is sufficient to render such categorization as false and baseless. Further, being a Muslim is not tied to a racial or national identity, and as such, labeling the arts and architecture of the peoples of the Middle East such as Iranians as “Islamic” robs them of their heritage and contribution to human civilization. Mislabeling the Iranian arts and architecture as “Islamic” is prejudicial to the Iranian people, who have lived in the Middle East for thousands of years, and have contributed greatly to human civilization starting with the formation of the first world empire, the Achaemenids (550-330 BCE), and first known human civil rights decree, “The Cyrus Cylinder” – an unprecedented document that acknowledged and respected different peoples as well as their identities and beliefs without imposing its own on them!

The ancient arts and architecture of Iran are categorized by respective dynasties, and for its modern works, they are correctly labeled “contemporary” and “post-modern,” as applicable. However, there is a huge injustice and prejudicial behavior on the part of the academia in labeling the works of the Iranian people in the middle ages as a generic and biased term “Islamic.” This behavior appears to be an extension of Western “orientalism” which is a view point no longer valid or acceptable with respect to that region.

Looking at the West, scholars and museums do not refer to medieval Western works as “Christian arts and architecture” despite the fact that majority of the works are religious-based, and completed and paid for by religious individuals or institutions. Instead, Western arts are divided either by periods such as Gothic, Baroque or Renaissance; or by national identities such as French, English, or the like. Further, when dealing with individual medieval Middle Eastern scholars, the academia usually labels them as “Muslim” without any reference to their identities creating assumptions that they were of Arab descent when in fact that is not the case. Additionally, what a person has accomplished in the arts and sciences is irrelevant to religious affiliations or lack thereof, as seen in how Western medieval artisans and scientists are categorized – that is, they are not referred to as a “Christian artists,” but by their national identities. For example, medieval Middle Eastern scholar Omar Khayyam is often only referred to as a “Muslim polymath” which suggests his place of origin is unknown and that he is necessarily a religious person when in fact it is known that he is Iranian and that his writings are critical of religion and the hypocrisy of the clergy.

Overall, it has remained prevalent among the Western media and professional outlets to refer to the entire Middle East as the “Islamic World” or “Muslim World” which is a gross misrepresentation of some 350 million people many of whom are not Arab and/or not Muslim. Today after centuries of Arabization -- post-emergence of Islam -- only about 60% of the Middle East speak Arabic and regard themselves as Arab, all of whom are not of Muslim faith. Although religious domination in a region is irrelevant to the arts of a people or their identities, an accurate statistic does not exist as far as religious affiliations in the Middle East rendering the assumption that majority are Muslim given apostasy is met with harsh retaliation. Finally, the same media and professionals do not refer to the West as the baseless and prejudicial term “Christian World.”

In short, we, the undersigned, respectfully request that all educational institutions and publishers including those affiliated with such organizations stop referring to medieval Iranian arts and architecture as the prejudicial and nonsensical term “Islamic.” Such works should be “Medieval Iranian Arts and Architecture” or categorized by various dynastic eras as in its ancient times. Iran’s heritage and history may not be usurped or redacted.

Respectfully submitted,

ēvakdāt – educational & consultation services on Iran’s affairs
persepolis3D.com - virtual reconstruction of ancient sites
Azadegan Foundation – struggle for democratic change in Iran
Feel free to sign the petition.
ramana
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by ramana »

See the West doesn't want to acknowledge pre-Arab invasion Persia due to the Greek effect. It hits the foundation myth of the West.....
It has become a trend of falsehood for museums, universities, publications, and the like to refer to medieval Iranian arts and architecture post-Arab Muslim invasion of 7th century up to the Safavid dynasty (1501-1736) -- all of which were a continuation of its ancient civilization (Achaemenid, Seleucid, Parthian and Sasanian dynasties covering 550 BCE-651 CE) – as the nonsensical “Islamic arts and architecture.”

......
Mislabeling the Iranian arts and architecture as “Islamic” is prejudicial to the Iranian people, who have lived in the Middle East for thousands of years, and have contributed greatly to human civilization starting with the formation of the first world empire, the Achaemenids (550-330 BCE), and first known human civil rights decree, “The Cyrus Cylinder” – an unprecedented document that acknowledged and respected different peoples as well as their identities and beliefs without imposing its own on them!

The ancient arts and architecture of Iran are categorized by respective dynasties, and for its modern works, they are correctly labeled “contemporary” and “post-modern,” as applicable. However, there is a huge injustice and prejudicial behavior on the part of the academia in labeling the works of the Iranian people in the middle ages as a generic and biased term “Islamic.” This behavior appears to be an extension of Western “orientalism” which is a view point no longer valid or acceptable with respect to that region.

nakul
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by nakul »

I dont think the current Iranian dispensation would be unhappy if everything gets labelled as Islamic. It suits their world view. For such deep labeling, the country of origin must use the correct terminogies first. Sadly Iran is still trying to lead the ummah and ignoring its real treasures. The day it realises this it could see itself as truly superior to the rest of the ummah instead of the current attitude to be a part of it.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

nakul ji, this petition is from anti-regime Iranians. I do know that at least one of the sponsors is Zoroastrian, and has many Indian links.

Sign the petition.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

X-posting from Kurdistan thread:

Kurds Open Zoroastrian Temple in Sweden
STOCKHOLM, Sweden -- The first Kurdish Zoroastrian temple, Agri Temple or “Temple of Fire,” will open its doors for believers of the faith on the Kurdish New Year, Newroz.

The center is located north of the Swedish capital, Stockholm.

Inside the temple, there is the holy fire and paintings of Zoroaster and Ahura Mazda, the Zoroastrian god. Texts from the Avesta, the holy book written in Kurdish, and a Kurdish flag warm up the heart of the temple.

Holding the Avesta against his chest and standing by the fire, Andaz Hawezi, the administrator of the temple and representative of the Kurdish Zoroastrian community in Sweden, said that on Newroz the temple will open its doors and welcome anyone interested in becoming a Zoroastrian, as long as they practice the main pillars of the faith -- “Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds.”

Hawezi believes that building a temple is the completion of human body because that is where the believers would meet their god Ahuramazda.

Hawezi has been studying the religion for over 20 years and has gained a senior position in the temple. He says there are many Zoroastrian practitioners in England, Sweden, India and south and east of Kurdistan, but he is the first Kurd to reach such a high position.

Hawezi received a license from the Swedish government to build the temple. According to Hawezi, the number of Zoroastrian Kurds has risen from four to more than 3,000 people in Sweden alone.

For the Kurdish people, Hawezi argues, the revival of Zoroastrianism is important.

“The historic and cultural language of Kurds was taken away from us,” he said. “We know we are the most ancient inhabitants of Mesopotamia and the Zagros Mountains."

Hawezi added, “But back then, we didn't know where the roots of our language had come from. What was our culture and history? Because it was hidden from us, we didn't know our dances and customs; all seemed strange to us."

Hawezi believes Kurds must return to the Avesta in order to find themselves.

“It has our language and customs; we can find our identity in it. The Kurdish identity is in the Zoroastrian religion,” he said.

Some critics of the Kurdish Zoroastrian trend say followers promote nationalism in the guise of religion. But Hawezi dismisses this argument.

“If I don't know anything about myself, I can't make a claim about other things,” he said. “I'm not saying that we are teaching Kurdish nationalism. Kurdish nationalism has always existed. We are saying that we can add knowledge to Kurdish nationalism, moving it forward.”

Zoroastrianism originated from ancient Persia but is, argues Hawezi, a religion with no boundaries, for all humanity.

“It is a religion without boundaries. The root of the religion is in the brain, that a human being has to think and then behave in a good manner,” he said.

“It is a religion of happiness and struggle,” he adds. “The ultimate decision lies with human beings. No one can tell you to do this or that. It is a religion that pushes a human being to make his own decisions.”

The Day of Judgment, reward in heaven and punishment in hell is a major part of Islamic teaching. But, according to Hawezi, the concept of hell is different in Zoroastrianism.

“In the Zoroastrian religion, hell is not a hot place as the Muslims believe,” he says. “Because to us Kurds, heat is a good thing; it is something holy. We come from the mountains and cold regions, so our heaven is warm and bright; our hell is dark and cold."

Hawezi urges the Kurds of Sweden to come to his temple on the eve of Newroz.

“Come and live with the Zoroastrian religion and fire," he says.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by brihaspati »

Just wanted to say that if possible people should try and see Satrapi's Persepolis. It is consistent with the descriptions from dissenters known to me. Iran is further on the road towards freedom than the peninsula, and to an extent any move that eliminates the mullahtollate or severely damages them - is welcome.
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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

Just thought I'd post this here. A glimpse into village life, esp. into a polygamous family.

Four Wives and One Husband, Polygamy in Iran, Documentary

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Re: Iran's Identity Faultlines - Islamic / Aryan

Post by Agnimitra »

Mashhad, in the area of Iranian Khorasan, is a holy place of pilgrimage for the Shi'a, because the mausoleum of Imam Reza is there. A special union territory called Khorasan-e-Razavi had been created in Iran due to the great significance of the area and the huge volume of the pilgrim/tourist industry from within and outside.

No more permits for musical concerts will be issued in Mashhad
Translasun:
Police Chief for general security of Khorasan-e-Razavi has declared that no more concert permits will be issued from now on.

Nasser Najjarian said in a press conference this Monday that the reason for this decision was to "reinstate the honour and sanctity of the tomb of Reza".

Just recently, the policy chief in Tehran had remarked regarding concerts in Mashhad that concerts in this city also generally have the habit of running into problems.

Less than a month ago, Ali Qomsari, the supervisor/manager of the musical group "Aahang e Eshtiyaaq" had made it known just a few hours before a Mashhad concert featuring Alireza Qorbani that the concert had been cancelled. {"Aahang e Eshtiyaaq" means "Harmony of Eagerness" :mrgreen: }

Mr. Qomsari had said: "Just half an hour before our flight, the news reached us that in spite of having completed several rounds of bureaucratic rigmarole and permit procedures, our group, university student fans, and university functionaries were prohibited from conducting the concert."

Indirectly insinuating the difficulties of conducting a concert in Mashhad city, he had obliquely alluded to some people whose power appears "self-aggrandizing and illegal" by subtly pointing out such acts as the tearing down or defacing of concert posters, and disrespect of the university's cultural office-holders.

In the summer of last year, Salar Mortazevi, manager of the classical group 'Baamdaad' (Dawn), had said that for the past 4 years it had not been possible to conduct a classical music concert in Mashhad, and it now seems to take months, if not years, of applications and consultations to get the process moving.

He said: "Its been years now that our representatives (in govt.) have been talking about culture and civilization, and of a (Western) cultural invasion in progress, but what have they done to combat it? After all, doesn't a cultural invasion need to be defended against - and is our traditional music a part of our civilization, or not?" {Hmm, this is NOT a rhetorical question in Iran}

According to Mr. Mortazevi's statements, although Mashhad is a religious city, it is now counted as the capital of Iran's underground rap music scene. :shock:
Ostad Mohamad-Reza Shajarian, one of the top traditional vocalists in Iran, hails from Mashhad. But since the "green movement" was crushed, even he refuses to sing on national radio, not even the famous 'Rabbanaa' call to Eftar in the month of Ramezan. Here's a famous Khorasani-style piece by the Ostad - Bebar ay abr e bahaar (Rain down oh clouds of spring)
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