Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Asha

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 11 Jan 2013 19:14

You guys don't get it, in WWII many actions of allies were war crimes, but they did what had to do including Nuking a non nuclear Armed country and then tried heads of the remaining opponents for war crimes and publically shaming them.

We have to behave in a similair manner with pakis.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 11 Jan 2013 19:17

Losses in war are to be expected. Losing heads and body parts too are to be expected, and I'm sure our soldiers know better than most of us here. What is appalling is the inhuman way of treating the dead. Playing football with a dead soldier's head that too in peace times. They booby trapped the dead body of one of our soldiers in Kargil war. This is subhuman behavior which makes our blood boil. Even seasoned Raj Rifl regiment soldiers are shaken and are on hunger strike goes to show how much they are affected.

Krishna told Arjuna, a thorn needs another to be taken out, a diamond needs another to cut it. Trying for war crimes is not something that is going to happen. Kalia's perpetrators are not punished, our gov has done nothing. 26/11 master minds are still free and are laughing their guts out issuing statements of further attacks on Indians. We need to learn out lessons fast. The hell with trying war criminals. After committing a genocide in 1971 which resulted in 3 million deaths, TSP didn't even apologize and now we want to try them for war crimes? Will not happen.

Power to our soldiers, blast the pakis, if it means war, so be it, better than living like cowards.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 11 Jan 2013 19:22

Venug and others, as shown in Operation Parakram most Indians dont have a stomach for war. NO point soldiers fighting while Pakis are rewarded by the Luttens crowd. Any war with Pak has to go to the level where Pakistan cannot have any sort of miltary weapons or army to threaten us for a Hundred years. Rather than a few beheadign at great cost of life and limb.

I would much prefer attacks against pakistani Barraks which leave a few Hundred of the Khakis dead.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 11 Jan 2013 19:25

Two days back there was an encounter between Maoists and CRPF and few CRPF Jawans died. When the bodies are brought for postmortem, they found that one of the dead CRPF jawan's body contained a bomb with 1.5kg explosive. Apparently maoists opened the stomach area, removed some internal organs and put this explosive.

The point here is there is no point ins Rhona Dhona. Shouldn't India take revenge if these soldiers were killed normally? If the cross-border shelling on a periodic basis then we are accepting army casualties on a continuous basis.

Secondly if our objection is about the ritualistic nature of Islamic armies then we should object them in all aspects of life be it their ritualistic killing of animals or sub-human treatment of women etc.,

First of all the non-muslim society of India should come to a honest and correct assessment of Islam, muslim-society and its relationship with rest of Bharat. Once this is done, perhaps it may be agreed that whatever Muslims do is acceptable or the objectionable portions of islam are made illegal/unacceptable.

The same thing should happen to Christianity/Christians and Hinduism/Hindus.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Jan 2013 19:56

These are provocations for war.

The Paki calculation is that India won't go for a full war or war escalation because of their chinese maal, but if the tempers are high one could get into a little conflict. That way Pakistani Army would be able to consolidate the country and tanzeems behind it, as India would be the big enemy. There would be lots of propaganda and stuff.

Any little conflict which ends in a draw, is a huge victory for Pakistani Army who can again stake the claim as protectors of Pakistan, can claim that Pakistan is in danger and as the force to have faced India, they are the rightful protectors of Pakistan.

All this can however be short-circuited if what India delivers to the Pakis is not a conflict or a war, but an awesome humiliation, showing the pussies that they are. The clash should be limited. It should not have anything to do with destroying any military stuff or any other goals. When the dust settles, a few hundred Paki soldiers should have been exposed as the sissies that they are. If US, China enter the fray then and call off the match, it is fine and good, and totally realistic. So we have half-a-round, limited time, to deliver the knock-out punch and get out.

How to humiliate the TSPA pigs? The same way the Taliban do it. Capture them and behead them. If the script goes the same way as the Taliban does it, they will have some difficulty in putting their objections to intelligible language. It has to be beheadings and the result of those beheadings of these TSPA Pakis have to be for everybody to see. It has to be a massacre of the pigs in a surprise attack.

When the big bosses of Security Council intervene and ask everybody to cool down, a few hundred heads of Pakis would be on display at LoC, Paki Fauj would again have lost their echandee, especially in the eyes of the Taliban, we would have nipped Paki plans in the bud and have gotten our revenge.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 11 Jan 2013 20:10

my respect for Chauhan went up a few notches.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 11 Jan 2013 20:10

Starting a war is very easy. Controlling it is a totally different thing. Pakis being myopic are only thinking of starting a war expecting it to be shorted by 3.5 in the first 72 hours.If the idea is to humiliate them,then we do not need 72 hours to humiliate them.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 11 Jan 2013 20:14

CM of UP did not attend the funeral of soldier. #TheekHai.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 11 Jan 2013 20:20

Second beheading in two years by Pakistan

The killing and mutilation of two Indian soldiers in Pooch, allegedly by Pakistani troops, is not a one-off incident. In August 2011, Pakistani soldiers had perpetrated similar violence on three Indian soldiers in the Kupwara area of the Valley.

However, the Army and the defence ministry had hushed up the incident. The Army officially described the deaths as one of the many sacrifices by the soldiers to foil infiltration bids along the India-Pakistan border.

Back then, Pakistani soldiers had killed two army personnel of the 20 Kumaon regiment and one from the 19 Rajputana Rifles who were patrolling the Farkian Gali area close to the LoC in the Kupwara sector of Kashmir, security officials said. After mutilating their bodies, the Pakistani soldiers took away the heads of Havaldar Jaipal Singh Adhikari and Lance Naik Devender Singh of the 20 Kumaon regiment as war trophies.
...
...

Looks like only DH is carrying this story(bylined DHNS). Please spread it more, keep the issue alive.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 11 Jan 2013 20:35

RajeshA ji.

I do not think that is possible. If IA can capture 100 or so Paki soldiers and behead them, Pakis will be able to do the same for at least 10 Indian soldiers.

The main issue is the "articulation" (as you did above) of any possible Indian proactive measure would unite Pakis of all kinds and strengthen TSPA hold on that nation, as if this is some positive development for Pakistan. I disagree with both the extrapolations we are making here.

1. TSPA rule is bad for India. Is it really? As I have shown in my Paki military/Civil rule and terrorism against India infograph I posted a couple of years ago, there is no difference in Paki's terrorism against India.

2. All pakis unite against India. Are they not already? Didn't the TSPA beheading TTP recently demanded that Pakistan goes to war with India and set up Islamic rule there?

India should take every opportunity to go war with Pakistan and deliver as big a punch as possible every time. This would ensure that
1. Pakistan behaves like Pakistan and not some manufactured facade.
2. Paki army is busy with fighting India. So Afghanistan can be manipulated. If India was wary of a two-front conflict, so should Pakis be.
3. The international community is busy funding Paki army so less money for non-military aid in Pakistan, thus making destruction of those assets easy for India (imagine Pinakifying few cantonments and MIC than many civilian targets)
4. Less opportunities for WKKs to bleed india
and so on...

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Jan 2013 20:42

the head taking thing is psyops - the right response is massive overkill and annihilation of entire units - muntho dalo style

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Jan 2013 20:55

RamaY ji,

the strategy to give Pakis a mass beheading is to make TSPA give up its strategy of trying to unite the Pakis by provoking India into a war. TSPA should die naturally as the stew cooks.

What TSPA's crore commanders fear most is that their fiefdom would simply disintegrate as their soldiers join other Tanzeems. In order to stop that, what they need is money from their 3½ friends to pay their soldiers and some reason dieter for existence. Their raison d'être is fast fading as the various tanzeems show that they can protect "Islam's Fortress" much better than TSPA crore commanders.

A beheading of an Indian soldier provides the TSPA crore commanders exactly that. They can show their "prowess" vs. India using the same Talibanic ways, thus through the mode of killing implicitly stating that they too are fighting Islam's cause, and they are best suited to do so!

What India should give the TSPA is a reason to pause. Taking such liberties with Indian jawans should have the exact opposite effect to what the TSPA crore commanders want. It should effect their humiliation as Momeen Mards. A few hundred beheadings of Paki soldiers would be such a thhapparh to TSPA, that they would rethink their strategy of winning some echandee in the eyes of the Islamists and Pakistani people. If the net effect of a clash with India is that they lose their echandee, then it doesn't pay to take on India. Then TSPA crore commanders would have to either come up with some new strategy or go down, as they are destined to eventually.

The rest is all long term business, but in the short term we would probably sleep easier with a suitable revenge in the pocket and knowing that they have been taught a lesson.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Jan 2013 21:08

capturing a few hundred men, then executing them in cold blood will be against the culture of the IA
blowing a few hundred enemy soldiers to smithereens in combat however is acceptable
napalm if possible

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 11 Jan 2013 21:09

To me it is absolutely clear that
1. The civilians of Pakistan cannot control or dictate things to the military or jihadis, but actually take dictation from them
2. It is likely that the military too is taking orders from jihadis at some level because there is no longer much of a line dividing the jihadis and military

What this means is that the border action could be something instigated by LeT/Hafiz Saeed. Maybe Saeeds son has married a pretty girl and he wants his son to die so he can marry his son's widow and get yet another son? But I digress.

If the LeT has provoked military action it is certain that the military brass in Islumabad can do nothing about it. Not they would want to stop such action, but even if they did, they would not be able to do that. The point is Pakistan is so far gone that talking to the military or the civilians is useless. Both are no longer in control.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Jan 2013 21:13

shiv - i think you hit the nail on the head
neitehr are in control and the PA through this action is trying to demonstrate that it is

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Jan 2013 21:14

Lalmohan wrote:capturing a few hundred men, then executing them in cold blood will be against the culture of the IA
blowing a few hundred enemy soldiers to smithereens in combat however is acceptable napalm if possible

If they are uncomfortable doing this, they could outsource it to someone outside the Army once the few hundred men are captured, though considering what happened there would be voices in the Army to pay the Pakis in kind.

JMHO

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Jan 2013 21:15

that my friend would be a war crime

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Jan 2013 21:17

Let's write the manual anew, according to our perspective!

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 11 Jan 2013 21:18

This will die too, as soon as this smasana vayragya ends in few days, all is well again, BTW when is the next match between Pak and India, I cant miss it.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 11 Jan 2013 21:19

RajeshAji...

In Dharmic system, the focus is on killing irrespective of how it is done. In Asuric system the focus is on how one is killed.

Yes Dharmic system doesn't prohibit one from beheading the opponent, but it would be adharmic to behead a dead soldier who was killed by a sniper rifle. IMHO, that is the major difference between IA and TSPA.

If I were PM of India, I would give a standing instruction to IA to focus on hitting a sound target to smithereens killing at least a hundred or so Paki soldiers, every time a cross-border shelling incident happens anywhere across the 1500 mile border. And there should be at least one or two such incidents every month irrespective of who started it. I will always follow such an incident with the inevitable peace talk and a medical/humanitarian CBM like shipping some fake china medicines.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Jan 2013 21:22

err the idea that LeTail is wagging the TSPA kutta is exactly the image that the US and TSP elite want to protray of non state actors waging war. In this way there is no accountability. If TSP wants to say its LeT's hafiz suar that is behind the beheading attack by its soldiers then it needs to be accountable for the actions of its citizens.
Earlier we had non-state actors (LeT terrorists with recce by US non state actor Daud Geelani/Daivd Headley) trained by TSP Army units and transported by TSP Navy attacking Indian citiy of Mumbai. Now we have non-state actors (Paki Army SSG commandus) beheading Indian Army personnel in India.
In the limit we will have non-state actors attacking India with nukes.
And world and UPA will talk about how India should be restrained and continue the Aman (India) ka tamasha.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 11 Jan 2013 21:24

shiv wrote: What this means is that the border action could be something instigated by LeT/Hafiz Saeed. Maybe Saeeds son has married a pretty girl and he wants his son to die so he can marry his son's widow and get yet another son? But I digress.

If the LeT has provoked military action it is certain that the military brass in Islumabad can do nothing about it. Not they would want to stop such action, but even if they did, they would not be able to do that. The point is Pakistan is so far gone that talking to the military or the civilians is useless. Both are no longer in control.

I do not think this is a logical explanation, but rather a "rationalization" of the incident. This absolves TSPA of all further incidents and escalations for they are done by LeT types.

There is no way we can convince ourselves, Pakis and world that TSPA and Let/Taliban one and same unless Taliban takes over Pakistan, which is at least few years away. If Taliban/TSPA are even 10% as smart as we allow them to be they will always keep this distinction to fool the world.

Edited: Ramanaji AWMTA

dada · Post by **dada** » 11 Jan 2013 21:31

Visham Vishasya Aaushadham ( Poison is the only Antidote to Poison)

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 11 Jan 2013 21:36

Lalmohan wrote:capturing a few hundred men, then executing them in cold blood will be against the culture of the IA
blowing a few hundred enemy soldiers to smithereens in combat however is acceptable
napalm if possible

Is it really against the culture of IA? If so, can IA change its culture?

shiv wrote:To me it is absolutely clear that
1. The civilians of Pakistan cannot control or dictate things to the military or jihadis, but actually take dictation from them
2. It is likely that the military too is taking orders from jihadis at some level because there is no longer much of a line dividing the jihadis and military

What this means is that the border action could be something instigated by LeT/Hafiz Saeed. Maybe Saeeds son has married a pretty girl and he wants his son to die so he can marry his son's widow and get yet another son? But I digress.

If the LeT has provoked military action it is certain that the military brass in Islumabad can do nothing about it. Not they would want to stop such action, but even if they did, they would not be able to do that. The point is Pakistan is so far gone that talking to the military or the civilians is useless. Both are no longer in control.

What should be India's response?

---
Everytime, its the same old,"If India becomes aggressive, then all pakis unite...". As if pakis are not already 'united' on harming India. Anyway, even if pakis unite, so what? Isn't it a good thing, I mean WKKs can be happy that India is able to unite all pakis(and end all strife) by becoming bold and assertive instead of allowing more terrorism in south-asia(by being an impotent).

Personally, I doubt that pakis have the ability to live peacefully with anyone. They have developed an ability to pick fights with everyone just for the heck of it. The pick-fight with those with whom they think they can win(or not be harmed).

So, Talibunnies pick fight with PA. PA picks fight with India. It seems pakis learned this art of picking fight on 'safe' targets from Amirkhans. Amirkhans also picked fight with people they taught could not harm them back(like Vietnam or Talibunnies).

So, when India placates the pakis, the PA becomes more emboldened. India needs to earn some respect in the eyes of the world by proving its mettle. Preaching morals is fine, but if you cannot enforce those morals, by force if necessary, then no one will care for you or your preachings. Indian state is a joke, as far as every other country is concerned. No one cares for it.

Even puny Norway teases India by arresting a couple on silly charges. The same pattern is seen with pakis as well. It is the failure of Indian state, nothing else.

To add to it, there is collusion between paki elites and Indian elites. People make a mistake in understanding things because they are look at it as a modern nation-state and trying to make sense of it. Instead, look at it as medieval country ruled by Lords(or Nawabs/Rajas/Zamindars...etc). These people may fight with each other, but they also have connections with each other(family, business, political, and ideological...etc). They never completely annihilate each other. It is only the cannon fodder that dies. Fiefdoms may shrink or increase, some forts may be won or lost, but the utmost thing is to perpetuate the elites' hold on power. And, elites support each other across the fiefdoms.

These elites share a contempt for the masses and admire the western elites. Western elites, on their part, have trained(and funded) these elites into doing their jobs.

This collusion is explained away by taking cover behind high rhetoric on 'morals'.

The situation has become like eka-chakra-puram. A Bhima who is willing to take the fight to the enemies is the need of the hour. One cannot kill a demon without bloodying the hands. If one is not ready to soil the hands, then the demon will continue to devour the innocents.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Jan 2013 21:37

RamaY ji,

I thought in our mythology we used to lay extra emphasis on how a Rakshasa/Asura is killed. Every one of them was killed in some special way!

The open display of cut-off heads as a garland around the neck of Kali Ma, is proof that we want to terrorize our enemy in not taking us on in the future, in not taking to evil ways. At least that is how I interpret it.

I am not of the view that the difference between Dharmic and Asuric can be defined by the way we kill. The way we kill has an effect on not only the killed but also on all those who should fear to be killed. If the effect were only on the one who is killed, I would agree with you. But the effect on the rest is also a factor.

What is important is that we do not relish the pain of those who are killed or of the ones they leave behind. That I think is one important difference - not to relish the pain.

The other important difference that I see, is whom we kill. Nobody should be killed for simply being of a different opinion or for making use of their deserved individual freedoms. The Asuras to the West do not understand the difference.

Killing is okay for the deserving and Way of Killing can be important for the message.

Beheading an already dead Paki soldier, I think is also okay, simply because what is the body - nothing but clothes for this life. So doing some tailoring is also okay, especially if it sends a clear message and through this clear message more bloodshed can be avoided.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 11 Jan 2013 21:41

We are going into yellow zone. All I can say is the "manner" an asura is killed is directly related to how s/he "wished" to be killed based on the boons he asked.

Fair enough if Islam teaches that a Paki has to be halaalled so he can enter the gates of honey and milk filled jennat, then we should do the honor for them.

After all we should not only "tolerate" all religions but also "respect" their traditions.

Perhaps Bji can provide us the right versus that (everything exists in Quran) tells us what rituals to be followed to make a Paki-animal Halaal.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 11 Jan 2013 21:43

shiv wrote:To me it is absolutely clear that
1. The civilians of Pakistan cannot control or dictate things to the military or jihadis, but actually take dictation from them
2. It is likely that the military too is taking orders from jihadis at some level because there is no longer much of a line dividing the jihadis and military

What this means is that the border action could be something instigated by LeT/Hafiz Saeed. Maybe Saeeds son has married a pretty girl and he wants his son to die so he can marry his son's widow and get yet another son? But I digress.

If the LeT has provoked military action it is certain that the military brass in Islumabad can do nothing about it. Not they would want to stop such action, but even if they did, they would not be able to do that. The point is Pakistan is so far gone that talking to the military or the civilians is useless. Both are no longer in control.

During the Afghan Jihad, Zia truly believed that "Islam inspired fighters" did best in the battlefield (was it before or after 90,000 of Islam-inspired finest surrendered in the battlefield? I forget.) That is one of the reasons why Pakistanis supported the terrorists they did, despite the option of supporting Afghan nationalists also. The Basic part of SSG commando training also involved great stories about great exploits from Islamic history. In fact a documentary about the Paki effort against the NWFP yahoos was quite revealing. Their CO walks up to the men, gives a speech about why their enemies are enemies of Islam and it is the duty of the soldiers to go kill them!

So beyond a point, it is hard to tell Paki soldiers "treat your enemy with dignity" because then theological questions start popping up. Forget "treat your enemy with dignity" even "shave your beard" is not possible because again, theological questions start popping up. Going along this path means that all attempt at being a professional army will come to naught. First it will start with beards. Remember that incident when a Paki airforce pilot protested at being disqualified from flying because he couldnt put an oxygen mask on his glorious beard? Then it will go to insubordination. Remember the incident when a junior officer was the mullah of a senior officer? Then it will progress towards forgetting why the Army exists. Remember the Army Jernail claiming in court that they followed their Islamic duty to supply weapons to Bosnia. Then it will progress to forgetting who their daddy is. Remember Hafiz Saeed getting invited for a theology speech at Iftar dinner at a Corps commander meet. (all the above incidents are true and happened).

Walking more along this path, what is the essential difference now, between a terrorist and a Pakistani soldier? You cant distinguish by their appearance. Both have beards and yell AoA!!! You cant distinguish by their actions. Both actions are absolutely halal and according to the book. You cant distinguish by their world view. You cannot distinguish by what they have sworn to uphold (Jihadi fistula and most certainly not the constitution). I think it is only the uniform and the fact that the latter is on some list of employees somewhere.

Long story short, the fact that terrorists control Pakistani army is vacuously true because they are one and the same.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 11 Jan 2013 21:43

did the president say anything about this??? isnt he the SUPREME COMMANDER of the tri service

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Jan 2013 21:48

RamaY ji,

furthermore for somebody infused with Islam, it perhaps doesn't matter if he is killed, but what happens to his body later on, somehow is important to them.

So cutting off the head and burning of the rest of the body is my recommendation. Also there is talk of martyr's body smelling of roses, so pig's urine should also be considered as a perfume for the ashes and the hair.

Death just gives martyrdom but beheading, mutilation, burning and drenching them in porcine urine takes away all the fun awaiting in the afterlife.

This all may seem horrible for many of us. But if one thinks from the PoV of what motivates all those Jihadis and what discourages them, then one should consider these "recommendations"!

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 11 Jan 2013 21:54

RajeshA wrote:RamaY ji,

I thought in our mythology we used to lay extra emphasis on how a Rakshasa/Asura is killed. Every one of them was killed in some special way!

The open display of cut-off heads as a garland around the neck of Kali Ma, is proof that we want to terrorize our enemy in not taking us on in the future, in not taking to evil ways. At least that is how I interpret it.

I am not of the view that the difference between Dharmic and Asuric can be defined by the way we kill. The way we kill has an effect on not only the killed but also on all those who should fear to be killed. If the effect were only on the one who is killed, I would agree with you. But the effect on the rest is also a factor.

What is important is that we do not relish the pain of those who are killed or of the ones they leave behind. That I think is one important difference - not to relish the pain.

The other important difference that I see, is whom we kill. Nobody should be killed for simply being of a different opinion or for making use of their deserved individual freedoms. The Asuras to the West do not understand the difference.

Killing is okay for the deserving and Way of Killing can be important for the message.

Beheading an already dead Paki soldier, I think is also okay, simply because what is the body - nothing but clothes for this life. So doing some tailoring is also okay, especially if it sends a clear message and through this clear message more bloodshed can be avoided.

RajeshA ji,
+108. Perfectly put. It is important not to relish pain(which is different from enjoying victory). And that is a very important distinguisher between 'good' and 'evil'. It is not killing or mode of killing, but whether one enjoys the killing(or a particular mode of killing).

If there are two persons:
a) A soldier who kills, but does it as a duty.
b) One who does not kill, but enjoys the act of killing... listening about it, seeing it, thinking about it ...etc.
Of the two, who is better? (a) is better than (b). (b) is a pervert...

This is the crucial distinction apart from fighting, killing and dying for the 'right' cause.

To show the difference:

RamaY wrote:
ramana wrote:shyamD, I see the Syrian embroglio leading to a repeat of the Battle of Hattin that ended the Kingdom of Jerusalem but this time it will be Istanbul.
I was reading about this battle and this caught my eye

"Saladin ordered that they should be beheaded, choosing to have them dead rather than in prison. With him was a whole band of scholars and sufis and a certain number of devout men and ascetics, each begged to be allowed to kill one of them, and drew his sword and rolled back his sleeve. Saladin, his face joyful, was sitting on his dais, the unbelievers showed black despair" – Imad ed-Din, Saladin's Secretary

Link

RamaY garu posted it. But he missed highlighting how Saladin is joyful looking at the despair of his opponents. Saladin may or may not have actually shown those emotions. It may be an embellishment of his hagiographers. But, this is the narrative that motivates the jihadis. So, they take pervert pleasure in the travails of their opponents. The more the opponent suffers, the more 'joy' is derived by these people. This is the pervertion.

Such people cannot be changed merely by dossiers or moral lessons or by 'civilized' replies or 'calibrated' responses. What they need is a deterrent. Some thing that they fear. What do they fear? They fear that the opponent will pay them in their own coin...

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 11 Jan 2013 21:55

Beheading post/pre mortem is a must. PBUH used to behead to prevent the "ghost" of the victim to come back and haunt him.

The other thing that is a must is severing of the sexual organ and burning it, alternatively burning the body is also a good idea. Palestenian suicide bombers used to use "junk" pads during their missions so that it is safe to be used on the 72 they would be getting afterlife. For some reason they believed that junk being destroyed means no use for 72.

While this may seem cruel to us Yindoo fundamentalists, these are very legitimate ways to make a Jeehardie worry about his mission.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 11 Jan 2013 22:13

To put the fear in the Jihaadis and waylaying their Jannat dreams, was suggesting earlier to harvest the organs immediately after killing the Jihadis and use them for medically needing people and due to demographics of India, most of the beneficiaries will be non-believers or Kufrs. we just need medical kits handy along with few medical personnel on Dhruvs for performing in field post-mortems.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Jan 2013 22:15

johneeG wrote:To show the difference:
ramana wrote:shyamD, I see the Syrian embroglio leading to a repeat of the Battle of Hattin that ended the Kingdom of Jerusalem but this time it will be Istanbul.
RamaY wrote:I was reading about this battle and this caught my eye
"Saladin ordered that they should be beheaded, choosing to have them dead rather than in prison. With him was a whole band of scholars and sufis and a certain number of devout men and ascetics, each begged to be allowed to kill one of them, and drew his sword and rolled back his sleeve. Saladin, his face joyful, was sitting on his dais, the unbelievers showed black despair" – Imad ed-Din, Saladin's Secretary
Link

RamaY garu posted it. But he missed highlighting how Saladin is joyful looking at the despair of his opponents. Saladin may or may not have actually shown those emotions. It may be an embellishment of his hagiographers. But, this is the narrative that motivates the jihadis. So, they take pervert pleasure in the travails of their opponents. The more the opponent suffers, the more 'joy' is derived by these people. This is the pervertion.

Such people cannot be changed merely by dossiers or moral lessons or by 'civilized' replies or 'calibrated' responses. What they need is a deterrent. Some thing that they fear. What do they fear? They fear that the opponent will pay them in their own coin...

johneeG ji,

another thing worth reading is

With him was a whole band of scholars and sufis and a certain number of devout men and ascetics, each begged to be allowed to kill one of them

This is totally against what I have proposed earlier. Why would anybody want to be so eager to kill the prisoner. Sure from "our" PoV it needs to be done and a message needs to be sent out, but anybody can do it. Why the eagerness? Why the "competition" to do it? It is as if "causing pain", "beheading", "mutilation" is prescribed and one gets brownie points if one does it.

That should not be our thinking! If a beheading is to be done, it should be done for the message. There should be no joy in it! And if one does it, it does not make one a better warrior! It should be considered as dirty work which one is forced to do by the enemy's behavior, thus making it part of one's duty (i.e. in case it becomes SOP)!

That should always remain the gulf between them and us - for them gruesomeness is encouraged for the sake of it, for us it is forced upon us as "duty" *!

Added later: * i.e. post-capture! Beheading pre-capture should be no weight on a warrior's conscience at all.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Jan 2013 22:17

vasu raya ji,

I thought about it, but doing that takes us way too much off course in the morality sweepstakes, or more importantly in the warrior cult!

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 11 Jan 2013 22:19

There are days when I want put the senile loon Ramdas on a rocket and send him into space

its a shame he allows himself to be put right in front

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?283496

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 11 Jan 2013 22:20

How about scalping like native Americans do?

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 11 Jan 2013 22:23

venug,

We need to read up on the Koran and understand how will each action destroy the path to Jannat. Then these actions must be ritualistically carried out on each of the dead, and advertized as a warning.

It maybe brutal and against Geneva convention, but it will cause a blowback on the Jeehardi mullahs, as the Jeehardies would now start turning against their mullahs for answers.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 11 Jan 2013 22:26

Geneva conventions don't apply to non-state actors(i.e. terrorists).

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Jan 2013 22:31

Surya wrote:There are days when I want put the senile loon Ramdas on a rocket and send him into space

its a shame he allows himself to be put right in front

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?283496

Wasn't there some convention about junk in space?!

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Jan 2013 22:36

venug wrote:How about scalping like native Americans do?

they didnt until europeans started scalping them