Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

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disha
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by disha »

ramana wrote:Philip,
Just before 1947, India had four strong organizations: The Indian National Congress, the All-India Muslim League, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and the Communist Party of India.
With ML going to TSP, Communists in the wilderness, the Mahatma's killing was pinned on the Hindus and the INC was left all alone.
I think with Partition (got rid of ML) and Mahatma's killing(silenced the Hindus) was a way to secularize India.
^+1. I was thinking on similar lines. The biggest tragedy was the assasination of Gandhi. Gandhi should have been allowed to go to Pakistan and if he had outlived Jinnah, Pakistan would have crumbled within its own contradictions.

Further it is interesting that all CongI satraps who can be a challenger to the AICC president outside of the die-nasty get either neutered (Sharad Pawar, Jagan Mohan Reddy) or accidented (MadhavRao Scindia, Rajesh Pilot, YSR).

If CT were to given air, it must have been the CongIs to enable Gandhi's assasination (what happened to his security? Given that other attempts were made on him earlier as well).
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by disha »

ravi_g wrote:Theo ji deserves to be treated better. At least he reads and even tries to supplement is understanding in other threads. We have others that do not even read and keep blabbering. And they have already started trolling on this thread even when this thread may actually need to go well into 2014.
Thanks for supporting him. I am sure his analytical mind will be able to pick the grain from the chaf from my post.

^^ Please read it as a compliment.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by nandakumar »

With ML going to TSP, Communists in the wilderness, the Mahatma's killing was pinned on the Hindus and the INC was left all alone.
I think with Partition (got rid of ML) and Mahatma's killing(silenced the Hindus) was a way to secularize India.[/quote]

^+1. I was thinking on similar lines. The biggest tragedy was the assasination of Gandhi. Gandhi should have been allowed to go to Pakistan and if he had outlived Jinnah, Pakistan would have crumbled within its own contradictions.

Further it is interesting that all CongI satraps who can be a challenger to the AICC president outside of the die-nasty get either neutered (Sharad Pawar, Jagan Mohan Reddy) or accidented (MadhavRao Scindia, Rajesh Pilot, YSR).

If CT were to given air, it must have been the CongIs to enable Gandhi's assasination (what happened to his security? Given that other attempts were made on him earlier as well).[/quote]
I heard that the pistol that was used to kill Gandhiji was a standard Italian army issue during the second world war. How did it land in India of all the places is the question. Godse who had so much difficulty in getting hold of a gun until then suddenly leaves for Gwalior early in the morning and comes back just in time for Gandhji's prayer meeting. Both cicumstances and the fact that British secret service police was active in delhi point out to some conspuracy.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by anchal »

Open magazines cover is creating ripples, hope the cartoonist stays safe
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by devesh »

when a Hindu makes a statement against "secularism", we all are obligated to come out and condemn it.

when a Hindu makes a statement to blatantly pander to proselytizing Abrahamics, the Abrahamics have no similar obligation to come out and condemn.

I hope the bootlickers are watching this behavior. ultimately, the Abrahamics don't have any mercy for the "pagan".

Theo is a good example. Shinde comes out and makes an abhorring statement that gives ammo to Hafiz Suar types, and we have an esteemed member who comes out and makes ridiculous statements mocking "Hindu Khatre mein hai"....no mention of Shinde's comments. on the contrary, his comments can be construed as supportive of Shinde's logic.

Abrahamics do not have the same obligation to condemn anti-Hindus, like the Hindus have an obligation to condemn the anti-"seculars".
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

I think the Hindu nationalists have played along with INC's mantra of secularism for too long. Basically there is no "secular platform" in India.

The ideological platforms available today in India are

1) Bharatiya Nationalist Platform (Hindus, RSS, BJP, Neo-Dharmists, ...)

2) Jaati-based Platform (BSP, SP, etc.)

3) Islamo-Christianist Platform ( Congress, Janta Party offsprings, Islamist parties, Christianist orgs)

4) Cultural Marxist Platform (Communist parties intent on destroying any culture of the majority)

5) Yuppie Platform (Indian Elite enamored by West, ignorant of Indian values, Economic progress above all else)

6) Macaulayite Platform (Congress, Media, ...)

These are the six ideological platforms. There is no "secular" platform. What we call "Secular" Platform is actually just a claim by the last four platforms together, and all these four platforms are in fact against Indian Civilization and Culture. The second platform based on "Jaati-Consciousness" is really the swing platform.

By rejecting any existence of any "Secular" platform, even in the form of "Pseudo-Secular", one gets to the reality of what is going on. So let's start using the correct terminology.

Just a humble suggestion!
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

RajeshA wrote:3) Islamo-Christianist Platform ( Congress, Janta Party offsprings, Islamist parties, Christianist orgs)
I agree, with the minor caveat that since 'Islamo-Christianist' is a bit of a mouthful - the INC should properly be termed an 'Islamist' Party to begin with. This also has the added advantage that Westerners start becoming more appreciative of the reality (Hindutva Party suddenly starts to seem appealing when pitted against an Islamist one...)
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

IC Platform = Islamo Christianist = Indian Congress
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

Arjun ji,

it would be wrong to abbreviate the "Islamo-Christianist" Platform label. It is actually the hidden or not-so-hidden Christianist aspect of the platform that gives it respectability. When one says "Islamist" for Congress, it would not sound convincing, because people would start thinking that the leadership does not have any Islamist credentials.

The labels of the platforms are for Indian consumption and introspection, and not meant for the Westerners. The Westerners have to decide whether the support they are willing to give to the "Islamo-Christianist" platform is worth it, because it facilitates not only Christianist agenda but also Islamist agenda. It may subdue the "Bharatiya Nationalist" agenda, but over the long term, they would end up supporting the Islamization of India, and not our Christianization necessarily.

From the Indian PoV, the label "Islamo-Christianist" is important, because it tells of the pact between these two groups, how Islamic street muscle and Christianist media monopoly together prop up this setup all in the name of "secularism". Without telling the Indians about the pact that exists between the two, they will not understand why the purportedly "secular" leaders support Islamist resurgence in India, why the media do not criticize Muslims.

There is a substantive group carrying Hindu names which oversees to the interests of the "Islamo-Christianist" Platform, which confuses the people. This group is wedded to the whole platform in general for various reasons like political power, influence, etc. even if some of them would neither identify themselves as Islamic nor as Christianist. They simply nurture the bridge, the pact between the two. This group also gets promoted in the setup because their Hindu names help this platform hide its true nature and agenda. They serve the Islamo-Christianist Platform in lieu for this influence. And they are to be found all over the media especially. For this platform it is absolutely crucial to hide its true nature and the pact that is in place.

Lets also not forget that the "Islamo-Christianist" Platform also tries to form alliances with other ideological platforms - the Macaulayists, the Yuppies, the Cultural Marxists and often with the Jaati-Conscious also.
Last edited by RajeshA on 24 Jan 2013 20:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by munna »

Last edited by munna on 24 Jan 2013 20:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

The Macaulayists, the Yuppies, and the Jaati-Conscious can all be saved and be redeemed, except perhaps the hard-core, but the "Islamo-Christianists", the "Cultural Marxists" are not redeemable.

However considering that Marxism has in the world overall taken a beating, there may be a shimmer of light, but Maoists/Naxalites are kept in steady state of agitation for any redemption, for bringing them back into the fold, for dialogue and they are also too strongly controlled by PRC, and often supported by others simply for their contribution to anarchy.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by munna »

BREAKING: IF MODI LEADS BJP, 49% RESPONDENT SAY THEY WILL VOTE FOR THE PARTY WHILE ONLY 17% WILL SUPPORT CONGRESS

Glad Tidings. Beg you all to watch mood of the nation survey on link above.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by vijayk »

^^ Link please! No wonder the Gandoo DIEnasty is pooping in pants and wants to create a communal warfare to force deepest divisions in the society. Imagine the skeletons that will come out SOnia's cupboard if the UPA is kicked out.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by vijayk »

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indi ... 47462.html
This might deal a blow to the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) as it comes nearly a year before the country goes to election, but the current regime has been on the downhill of its popularity and the slope is only getting steeper for the government.

Be it the ever relevant issues of corruption and inflation or a host of social issues, particularly women's safety, the UPA-2 has failed to meet people's expectations miserably, findings of India Today-Nielsen's latest biannual opinion poll "Mood of the Nation" suggest.

Modi versus Rahul

The survey found that Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi has become more popular over the last six months, even as Rahul Gandhi emerged as a strong candidate within the Congress for prime minister's post.

Even as their respective parties have repeatedly refused to draw a comparison between the two, India Today asked people whom they wanted to see as prime minister - the Gandhi scion or the Gujarat BJP heavyweight. The outcome was not surprising.

As many as 57 per cent people spoke in favour of Modi, while only 41 per cent supported Gandhi, who was recently elevated as the second-in-command of the Congress by occupying the position of vice-president.

To a question on Gandhi as Congress's prime ministerial candidate, as many as 52 per cent said "yes", while 36 per cent respondents said "no". In a similar question for Modi as the BJP's candidate, 54 per cent were in his favour and 26 per cent against.

Manmohan's report card

The Manmohan Singh government failed to meet people's expectations on almost all the key issues the nation talked about in the last six months. Ironically, the UPA-2 regime saw politicians (58 per cent) being declared more corrupt than police (24 per cent).

Asked about the prime minister's performance in last three years, 39 per cent people rated it as "average", 27 per cent as "poor" and 26 per cent as "good". The overall performance of the government stood a little better with 42 per cent people giving it "average" rating, followed by 27 per cent "poor" and only 23 per cent as "good".

The government’s economic reforms got a big thumb down with 49 per cent people saying they were "not satisfied", while 37 per cent people found it satisfactory. As many as 40 per cent people did not welcome government's decision to increase the FDI limit in multi-brand retail.

NDA versus UPA

Despite periodic infighting within the BJP as well as the NDA, they gained at the cost of the UPA. However, the UPA's loss did not seem to be transforming into complete gain for the NDA alone as "others" shared the benefit significantly.

The latest survey gives NDA 203 seats out of 543 as against its actual 2009 Lok Sabha election result of 159. The UPA tally dropped from 259 to 157 during the same period, while others shot to 183 from 125.

Vote percentage-wise, however, the NDA did not gain much as compared to 2009 results. The survey indicated its gain at just 1.6 per cent to be at around 27 per cent. UPA finished ahead of NDA at around 28 per cent, a fall of 7.7 per cent from 2009.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

RajeshA wrote:When one says "Islamist" for Congress, it would not sound convincing, because people would start thinking that the leadership does not have any Islamist credentials.
Lets say the argument is "What Islamist? How do you define Islamist?" one counter is to ask what they mean by calling BJP a Hindutva party. How do you define Hindutva? And since defining Hindutva is no easy task in itself, its kind of easy to followup with an == between BJP as Hindutva and INC as Islamist based on which vote-bank the parties seek to appeal to.

If you think you can popularize 'Islamo-Christianist' then that's fine, but if it turns out you need something more catchy Islamist is also defensible.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by munna »

पीएम की दौड़ में राहुल पर भारी पड़ेंगे मोदी: सर्वे
नई दिल्ली: गुजरात के मुख्यमंत्री नरेंद्र मोदी का जलवा अपने राज्य में ही नहीं, बल्कि पूरे देश में बढ़ चढ़कर बोल रहा है और यही वजह है कि देश में अगले प्रधानमंत्री की दौड़ में वह सबसे आगे निकल गए हैं.

एबीपी न्यूज़- नीलसन सर्वे के मुताबिक देश की 48 फीसदी जनता मोदी को अगले प्रधानमंत्री के तौर पर देखती है. उन्होंने कांग्रेस के नेता राहुल गांधी को पछाड़ा है, जिनको महज़ 18 फीसदी जनता बतौर प्रधानमंत्री देखना चाहती है.

मतदाताओं के बीच मौजूदा प्रधानमंत्री मनमोहन सिंह की लोकप्रियता लगातार गिरती जा रही है और अब मतदाता उन्हें आगे बतौर प्रधानमंत्री देखने में बहुत ज्यादा दिलचस्पी नहीं ले रहे हैं. महज़ सात फीसदी लोगों ने कहा कि वे मनमोहन सिंह को आगे भी पीएम देखना चाहते हैं.
.......

जब लोगों से पूछा गया कि वह यूपीए-2 सरकार के पिछले चार साल के कामकाज को कैसे आंकते हैं तो तीन फीसदी ने इसे बहुत अच्छा, 16 फीसदी ने अच्छा और 35 फीसदी ने औसत करार दिया, जबकि 21 फीसदी ने बहुत खराब और 20 फीसदी ने खराब माना.

इसी तरह जब लोगों से पूछा गया कि वह बतौर प्रधानमंत्री मनमोहन सिंह के पिछले चार साल के कामकाज को कैसे आंकते हैं तो चार फीसदी ने इसे बहुत अच्छा, 20 फीसदी ने अच्छा और 36 फीसदी ने औसत करार दिया, जबकि 19 फीसदी ने बहुत खराब और 17 फीसदी ने खराब माना.
Please help with translation :(
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by vijayk »

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/modi ... 26194.html
Modi is invincible in Gujarat: India Today-ORG survey

Three-fourth of the voters (60 per cent) maintained that Gujarat's prospects would brighten if Modi becomes prime minister in contrast to 25 per cent who were afraid that it would suffer.

When asked which is going to be the most important issue in the coming assembly election, development emerged as the most important, as 37 per cent of the sampled voters mentioned it, followed by price rise (28 per cent) and corruption (18 per cent).

More than two-third of the respondents (67 per cent) were of the view that industrialisation in Gujarat has created jobs as opposed to 18 per cent who felt otherwise.

In response to which trait of Modi was his greatest weakness, 30 per cent perceived arrogance as his biggest weakness whereas 18 per cent considered his intolerance for the same.

At the same time, Modi's integrity came out as his greatest strength as 32 per cent of the sampled voters said that his not being corrupt was his greatest strength where as 26 per cent considered his organised leadership as his best trait. A sizeable 25 per cent felt that his charisma (man of ideas) was his USP.

Development was again at the top when the respondents were asked about Modi's greatest achievement as 43 per cent mentioned it in their response. It was followed by 15 per cent who felt improved power supply and 14 per cent for creation of employment opportunities during the present tenure as the other key reasons.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

The survey results are excellent !!

Here's some more details on the methodology of ABP-Nielsen survey: BJP-led NDA will win general elections, says poll

So, survey was conducted in 28 Indian cities & 9000 respondents. Given its Nielsen pedigree, must have sampled across class divides in the cities....So the takeaway seems to be that Modi is leading majorly across Urban India, and not just in Urban Middle-class.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RoyG »

Don't pay much attention to these surveys. NDA will not be forming the gov at the center in 2014 unless a revolution happens and people swamp New Delhi and force sec-left parties out of power. Coalition politics and money ensures you don't have to be the most popular to form gov at center.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Sampling and methodology for ABP News-Nielsen survey:

The survey was carried out between the period of January 10, 2013 to January 17, 2013. Total 8842 respondents were surveyed. The target respondent was male/female who is an eligible voter with age 18 years & above and their name registered in the voter's list.

In Northern India, the survey was conducted in eight cities. The cities are: Delhi, Ludhiana, Jaipur, Lucknow, Agra, Chandigarh, Allahabad and Patiala.

In Southern India, the survey was conducted in six cities. The cities are: Chennai, Hyderabad, Bangalore, Kochi, Madurai and Vijayawada.

In Eastern India, the survey was conducted in five cities. The cities are: Kolkata, Jamshedpur, Patna, Bhubaneswar and Guwahati.

In Western India, the survey was conducted in nine cities. The cities are: Indore, Mumbai, Bhopal, Ahmedabad, Pune, Raipur, Kolhapur, Nagpur and Aurangabad.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by abhishek_sharma »

नई दिल्ली: गुजरात के मुख्यमंत्री नरेंद्र मोदी का जलवा अपने राज्य में ही नहीं, बल्कि पूरे देश में बढ़ चढ़कर बोल रहा है और यही वजह है कि देश में अगले प्रधानमंत्री की दौड़ में वह सबसे आगे निकल गए हैं.

Modi is ahead in the PM race (in whole India, not just in his state), according to polls.

एबीपी न्यूज़- नीलसन सर्वे के मुताबिक देश की 48 फीसदी जनता मोदी को अगले प्रधानमंत्री के तौर पर देखती है. उन्होंने कांग्रेस के नेता राहुल गांधी को पछाड़ा है, जिनको महज़ 18 फीसदी जनता बतौर प्रधानमंत्री देखना चाहती है.

According to Nielsen survey, 48% look at Modi as the next PM, whereas Rahul Gandhi has the support of 18% people.

मतदाताओं के बीच मौजूदा प्रधानमंत्री मनमोहन सिंह की लोकप्रियता लगातार गिरती जा रही है और अब मतदाता उन्हें आगे बतौर प्रधानमंत्री देखने में बहुत ज्यादा दिलचस्पी नहीं ले रहे हैं. महज़ सात फीसदी लोगों ने कहा कि वे मनमोहन सिंह को आगे भी पीएम देखना चाहते हैं.

The popularity of MMS continues to decline. 7% people want him to be the next PM.
.......

जब लोगों से पूछा गया कि वह यूपीए-2 सरकार के पिछले चार साल के कामकाज को कैसे आंकते हैं तो तीन फीसदी ने इसे बहुत अच्छा, 16 फीसदी ने अच्छा और 35 फीसदी ने औसत करार दिया, जबकि 21 फीसदी ने बहुत खराब और 20 फीसदी ने खराब माना.

When asked about the performance of UPA-2, 3% rated it "very good", 16% called it "good" and 35% found it "average". 21% and 20% found the performance of UPA-2 "very bad" and "bad" respectively.

इसी तरह जब लोगों से पूछा गया कि वह बतौर प्रधानमंत्री मनमोहन सिंह के पिछले चार साल के कामकाज को कैसे आंकते हैं तो चार फीसदी ने इसे बहुत अच्छा, 20 फीसदी ने अच्छा और 36 फीसदी ने औसत करार दिया, जबकि 19 फीसदी ने बहुत खराब और 17 फीसदी ने खराब माना.

When asked about the performance of MMS:

4% people found it "very good"
20% -- good
36% -- average
19% --- very bad
17% -- bad
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Do we have methodology for India Today - Nielsen survey anywhere?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Supratik »

A word of caution, this is urban india and there were such predictions in 2004 and 2009. However, saw the ABP report. Modi clear frontrunner in urban India. Allies - Mamata will not support (but TMC was a small factor in 1999) and Nitish may jeopardize coalition in Bihar.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by anmol »

Supratik wrote:A word of caution, this is urban india and there were such predictions in 2004 and 2009. However, saw the ABP report. Modi clear frontrunner in urban India. Allies - Mamata will not support (but TMC was a small factor in 1999) and Nitish may jeopardize coalition in Bihar.
All these polls are BS, only those who really pay for these get real numbers. I think these numbers are for psyops only...

Regarding Nitish, I am afraid that will happen. Not because of what he said or done relating to Modi, but because of this:
http://www.parliamentofindia.nic.in/lsd ... 129203.htm
http://www.parliamentofindia.nic.in/lsd ... 129204.htm
http://www.parliamentofindia.nic.in/lsd ... 129205.htm
http://www.parliamentofindia.nic.in/lsd ... 129206.htm
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by fanne »

Guys, Let's not read too much into this. Dili door ast. How many times these surveys have gone wrong? If you win election, nothing replaces constituency wise buildup of winning combination (= core caste group + floating vote accretion + strong Organization + worked up base + favorable hawa (MSM is big component, if MSM against you, attack their credibility, don’t go and sit in their studio) – internal Sabotage - Thinking that being in the good book of MSM will win election (to Jinnah lover) – external sabotage (False flag candidate as in Apna Dal or Chiranjeeeve or NMS (or do the same to Cong) + (biggest) winnable strong candidate (not friends, not good orator, not great character (you are not choosing SIL), not who have bought ticket (RNS please notice) – Relatives of strong people kept away from influencing Ticket distribution (Vasundhraje and RNS please take note))
Thanks,
fanne
Theo_Fidel

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Theo_Fidel »

The polls are not wrong in small town areas. MMS and UPA are out of favor. Everyone however is waiting to see how this cash transfer scheme works out. But there are many other groups jostling to get that vote. In central India Kejriwal/AH and the aam aadmi party were surprisingly popular. I suspect they have a good 10% or 15 % of the electorate there. The shattering results of corruption and poverty. In TN the commies are making a strong comeback oddly, at least in the poster/mind share wars, after renouncing armed conflict.

It would ne interesting to see Nitish Kumars name on this list. His name recognition is low but he should pull at least 20% of the opinion vote.
------------------------------

Hmm....

I keep hearing that the media is 'sickular' and does not allow space for the Hindu oriented journalist. Anyone try to answer why this is so, without resorting to CT's.
vijayk
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by vijayk »

Supratik wrote:A word of caution, this is urban india and there were such predictions in 2004 and 2009. However, saw the ABP report. Modi clear frontrunner in urban India. Allies - Mamata will not support (but TMC was a small factor in 1999) and Nitish may jeopardize coalition in Bihar.
See Urban India was brainwashed into supporting the SCUM MAFIA by projecting MMS as the messiah of Reforms. So using MMS name, Sonia supporters claim it is a VOTE FOR DIEnasty. We have already seen people here who claim that DIEnasty won 2 elections :twisted:. They won majority of seats in urban areas. Imagine they switch to BJP and if Guajarat, Rajasthan, Maharastra, MP and even 20-30 seats in UP switch to BJP.

Imagine the anger of the middle classes and their impatience with mis-governance, and ineptitude of MMS turns middle class against the MAFIA and they lose majority of urban seats to NDA. I am sure if the wave catches up even in cities such as Hyderabad, Vizag, Vijayawada, Chennai, Mumbai, Delhi Modi will be able to sway enough votes for BJP as long he is not back stabbed by Advani or Anant Kumar. Even Yeddi can be brought back in as BJP organizational chief.
ramana
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by ramana »

Also surveys gage popular opinon. The PM is selected in INC case and elected in others case by MPs. So all these surveys are entertainment.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

The ABP-Nielsen survey was focused on which party they would vote for. INC got 18%, BJP got 36%, BJP with Modi as PM candidate got 49%.

The surveys are the best data and feedback we have, assuming they've been conducted using valid statistical techniques. If you don't go by these surveys then what would you go by - give credence to any random post that comes by that claims to talk for the "real India"?

Maybe some statistician can comment on the validity of predictions from these surveys based on the methodology.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

Arjun wrote:
RajeshA wrote:When one says "Islamist" for Congress, it would not sound convincing, because people would start thinking that the leadership does not have any Islamist credentials.
Lets say the argument is "What Islamist? How do you define Islamist?" one counter is to ask what they mean by calling BJP a Hindutva party. How do you define Hindutva? And since defining Hindutva is no easy task in itself, its kind of easy to followup with an == between BJP as Hindutva and INC as Islamist based on which vote-bank the parties seek to appeal to.

If you think you can popularize 'Islamo-Christianist' then that's fine, but if it turns out you need something more catchy Islamist is also defensible.
When I say Islamist, then I mean
  1. supported by Gulf money
  2. supportive of Islam's expansion in India - through
    1. geographic expansion;
    2. increased birth rate;
    3. migration of Bangladeshis and Pakis;
    4. consolidation of Muslim ghettos;
    5. consolidation of Mullah's control over the Muslim masses;
    6. elevation of Mullahs as the legitimate dialogue partners w.r.t. issues involving the Muslim community;
    7. tolerance of Muslim mafia, underworld and muscle;
  3. Appeasement of Kashmiri separatists and Pakistanis
  4. supportive of Islamic-British historical narrative at the cost Indian Civilizational history
However Congress can push back any labeling of it as "Islamist" because it can quote its historical role as opposition to Muslim League, its opposition to Two-Nation Theory, etc. This is all legacy and something that happened a long time ago, and under the guidance of more stalwarts than just the monopoly on power of Nehru-Gandhi dynasty!

The Congress trick is to portray the ideological fragmentation of Indian polity as something between "Secular" forces and "Hindutvavadis". Many other ideological platforms also are happy to play this game.

Because the Indian Muslims vote strategically, they know how to play the various parties and let the "Islamo-Christianist" Platform compete with other platforms for their votes - the Cultural Marxists (who are against only the majority culture), and the opportunist Jaati-conscious parties (who too are open to such alliances). That is how the Muslim vote bank ensures that ideologically there is an understanding between the various platforms on the national level, supportive of Islamic expansion in India.

And because there is this competition for Muslim votes, Bharatiyas get the impression that Congress is not per se "Islamo-Christianist", which also suits Congress, because it allows them to get the votes of others as well, as their true nature can thus be clouded and hidden.

The Macaulayites, the Yuppies, the Communist-minded, the Jaati-conscious common people all thus fooled to support the "Islamo-Christianist" agenda because of this deceptive label of "Secularism".

That is why it is important to speak out all the various platforms individually and to reject the existence of "Secular Platform"
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by ramana »

in that survey MMS does pretty good. Atleast 60% (4+20+36) think he is good or better!!!

And views on UPA2 is slightly lower at 54% (3+16+35).


In both case its the average 35-36% who need to change their opinon either way to retain or lose power.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by fanne »

Arjun ji,
Surveys are the best feed back maechanism. Vey true, and they are that only. Election winning however is totally a different kettle of fish. Elections are not going to be faught between BJP and Cong in all these areas and not between Modi and Prince Charming. E.g. in TN it will be mainly AIDMK and DMK. Moreover a Good Con candidate will win over a bad BJP candidate (all else being equal).
There is also lots of FUD at opinion level. Even analytical person like Theo ji can miss that. I don't see 10-15% support for Arvind Ford in CI. It is not in the survey, but you can argue, maybe that party was not put for election through survey. What Theo ji says if true (could be his baised opinion), NDA has already lost the election with 15% anti-UPA vote going to Ford.
So yes I am not disciunting EVM, but if it is EVM magic then these elections are meaningless, we await another Subhash or Azad. Till then lets argue here.
rgds,
fanne
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

basically it's UPA-3 if 2014 goes by this survey.

Image

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indi ... 47466.html
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

One of the reasons, BJP loses is simply because BJP just does not know how to play the game of media or how to play the game of labels.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by johneeG »

RajeshA ji,
the earlier post was very well articulated. +10000. :)
Theo_Fidel

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Fanne,

Yes, it is possible I am wrong. But a few months back I wrote off that entire group as well. But talking with folks on the ground in Chattisgarh & MP the name of AH & Kejriwal came up again and again. There is a small ground level movement there for about 10% IMO with the right candidates.

I don’t think this dooms the BJP, but it should be making these sorts of alliances right now. Instead of trying to depend on Modi watt power which may not make into the voting booth. When the voter is front of the box with list of names and parties he/she picks what they think is in their personal best interest. Best to go in with 6 slips.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by vijayk »

BJP needs to target "Others". "Others" might get 178-188. Even if BJP can steal 30-40 from others using Modi, that will be good.

The immediate strategy of BJP should be

1. Make CON MAFIA helpers such as MULYAM, MAYA, JAGAN less relevant in national election. Identify 50 constituencies in other influence and put maximum focus. Start educating the people from now that in national election these parties supported CON MAFIA irrespective of Price Rise, Corruption, ISI terrorist links of CON MAFIA ministers.

2. Increase revulsion among urban areas on CON MAFIA "Theya re working with Paki ISI and trying to make Hidnus as terrorist". If needed, stall the Parliament. Make Paki ISI, JuD, Islamic Terrorist from Pakistan and keep connecting them to Congress, Digvijay, Shinde and even DIEnasty. Repeat the message in key constituencies in UP, Bihar, HP, Haryana, MP, Maharashrtra, Karnataka.

2. I want Modi Vikaas/Vivekananda Yatra from now in crucial areas such as Karnataka, AP, Maharashtra as Governance and Lessons from Guajarat and how to apply to other areas. The vision will be appreciated by middle class and youth.
Sushupti
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

"Hindu Terror Slayer"from Lashkar-e-Congress is ready .

http://blog.tehelka.com/he-is-ready/
Last edited by Sushupti on 25 Jan 2013 05:12, edited 1 time in total.
RoyG
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RoyG »

^^look at the comments sushupti...

Also, what is this I hear about AH and Kujliwal? :shock:

guess one needs to balance the evils of nuclear power and dharmic consolidation with a dose of jokepal NACxalism.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by fanne »

If this is to be believed, BJP and Con get 36% and 18% votes in Urban India (among 8500+ voters in 22 cities). If Modi is declared BJP candidate then the % shifts to 49 and 17% (i.e. Cong loses 1% vote only but the other riff raff parties lose a lot, from 38.5% to 25%). Basically the third front in North will get decimated. BJP adds 36% extra votes to itself. Now what will happen in Bihar? BJP+ JDU got 39% vote. BJP Strike rate was amazing, won 90% of the seats it fought (91 out of 103?). Could it be that a cattiest state like Bihar is hiding a bigger secret? That in 39% of votes of NDA there, lion share is with BJP, mostly upper caste vote of 22% (and many other OBC and some SC votes). JDU is essentially a Kurmi Koeri party with 6-9% vote base (and other communities voting). Could be that BJP with an OBC as PM candidate can actually sweep Bihar, with or without Nitish? In Bihar, the Muslim vote (16%) will not go to BJP, nor will the BC vote of Yadav(8-12%) and Kurmi/Keori (6-9%)and Paswans (15%). Rest over 50% of Upper cast and OBC/MBC vote is for Modi to take? Also not all Yadavas are enamored with Lalu (Noth east Bihar yadavs have been voting BJP since RJM/Bhagalpur rights). And NK is no undisputed leader of Kurmis as Lalu is of Yadavs. Keori may join the OBC bandwagon of Modi. The task is cut out for BJP but there is potential.
rgds,
fanne
Last edited by fanne on 25 Jan 2013 02:44, edited 1 time in total.
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