Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

[SSridhar]

Turkry-Pak ties pose hurdle for India's enrry into NSG - ToI

Turkey's special relationship with Pakistan is coming in the way of better ties with India.

In its quest for membership to the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG), India has come up against a Turkish obstacle: Ankara says it wants a "clarification" or assurance on non-proliferation. In addition, Turkey is pushing the case for Pakistan to enhance its engagement with the global nuclear body. India's displeasure has led to a sharp decrease in high-level interaction between the two countries.

Feridun Sinirlioglu, undersecretary of the Turkish foreign ministry, who led a high-level official delegation to India this week for foreign office consultations, told TOI, "We see Turkey's relations with India as a strategic one. Our relations with Pakistan should not impact India. We want to enhance ties with India on its own merit."

But he admitted that Turkey had raised a "non-proliferation" concern regarding India's membership to the NSG. "Non-proliferation is an issue," Sinirlioglu said. But he went on to say that Turkey did not object to India's NSG membership. Turkey is pushing a criteria-based membership to the nuclear body, which India believes, is aimed at making way for an exemption for Pakistan. Ankara, however, denies this.
{Look who is preaching non-proliferation and to whom. We know how Ankara's proliferation helped Pakistan build its bomb}
The nuclear membership is close to India's heart. Turkey's stand has resulted in a sharp decline in bilateral engagement with India, despite the fact that it is regarded as an important partner. National Security Adviser Shivshankar Menon was expected to be in Turkey earlier this month, but inexplicably cancelled his visit at the last minute, citing scheduling problems.

Turkey supported the waiver for nuclear commerce with India at the NSG in 2008. Hence, the raising of objections on non-proliferation concerns has struck a discordant note in India. India, say sources, has no proliferation issues. But the objections are similar to the ones that China had made earlier, which were intended for the same thing: an exemption for Pakistan. India sees this move as being against its interests and is convinced Turkey is acting as a cat's paw for both China and Pakistan. Diplomatic sources aver that Turkey was keen on "helping" Pakistan, to "save" the nation.
{Save that blighted nation from what ? It has to save itself from itself and that is the only saving it has to do. How is it that Turkey is willing to forgo so many advantages with India for a God-forsaken entity called Pakistan ? India must tighten screws on Turkey that if Turkey plays this equality game between India and Pakistan it will lose big time with us}
Turkey has argued that Pakistan's "engagement" with the NSG should increase. However, India interprets this as a backdoor entry for Pakistan, a known nuclear proliferator, into the nuclear body.

Turkey, indicated Sinirlioglu, was looking at nuclear cooperation with India. Turkey is in the market to buy several nuclear reactors. It is currently focused on Russia, but India could also look at Turkey as a reactor market. That needs an NSG membership for India. Wires are clearly crossed between New Delhi and Ankara.

[shyamd]

The Turkish strategists build ties not based on interests but who is Muslim or not. If the govt changes there, there may be some other changes to their strategy

[RajeshA]

The Turkish strategists build ties not based on interests but who is Muslim or not. If the govt changes there, there may be some other changes to their strategy

So AKP is an Indian enemy!

Turkey like Pakistan is an invaded country, where there is only 15% Central Asian genetic imprint, but 100% cultural and linguistic imprint. 85% Anatolians have submitted to the 15% Turkics and adopted the Turkic identity.

So Turkey too would sympathize with Pakis! It is a racial, religious explanation, but that doesn't make it any less valid.

Indians need to start showing open support to the Kurdish cause, open a seat for Kurdish studies in the Delhi University and start giving scholarships to all those Kurds who want to travel to India for education.

Additionally India should enter a strategic relationship with Kurdish Regional Government to train the Peshmarga. We can of course train some other Iraqi units as well. As part of training the Peshmarga we should also give training to Turkish Kurdish groups.

Turkey wants animosity with India. They should get it!

[SSridhar]

If one looks at post Indian-independence behaviour of Turkey, it has always supported Pakistan to the hilt, except for a very brief period during that Sanskrit-scholar Ecevit's rule when it showed some interest in India. It is time India uses some of its diplomatic leverage against countries that want to block India's legitimate and rightful progress and 'peaceful rise' (India rises peacefully, not China) by bringing in extraneous issues not connected to bilateralism. It is not enough if we simply express our displeasure.

[RajeshA]

Published on Oct 26, 2006
By Dr Rebwar Fatah
The accepted genocide of Kurds in Turkey: KurdishMedia.com



Since the Armenian genocide, Turkey has done very well to hide and disguise its dark history from the international community. But a shady past rarely dawns a bright future.

Instead, Turkey is re-branding itself with Europe-friendly terms to essentially get rid of what it has always wanted to be rid of. Turkey’s tidy up of its language: words with a distinct Kurdish origin wiped out and replaced. Indeed, anything that is not strictly Turkish has been linked to “terrorism” – a trigger word guaranteed to win the sympathies of the international community.

The Turkish constitution does not recognise Kurds in Turkey, and so often labels them as terrorists, providing a convenient scapegoat for military uprisings and other political issues. Thus, “terrorist” becomes a synonym for Kurds.

Turkey frequently argues that the PKK is a terrorist organisation; hence all Kurdish organisations are banned for what they may imply.

Turkey is desperately in need of an imaginary threat to its “national security”, “territorial integrity” and “sovereignty”, achieved by “separatist/terrorist” Kurds. The scale of the suffering Kurds and destruction of Kurdish homeland does not fit into any “terrorist” definition. In 1999, the death toll of Kurds killed in Turkish military operations increased to over 40,000. According to the figures published by Turkey’s own Parliament, 6,000 Kurdish villages were systematically evacuated of all inhabitants and 3,000,000 Kurds have been displaced. This sounds like an elimination of a people, a culture and a homeland.

If Turkey is genuine in its elimination of terrorism, it must take brave steps, accepting Kurdish people and their homeland, Kurdistan, and ending its history of oppression.

Professor Noam Chomsky called the Turkish response to Kurds an “ethnic cleansing”, resulting in the death of thousands, the emigration of over two million people and the destruction of approximately 6000 villages.

In fact, these methods by which Turkey has sought to oppress the Kurdish people are similar to those used by Saddam Hussein in the recent past, including the destruction of Kurdish land, mass evacuation and deportation. In some other areas, Turkey has used more oppressive methods to achieve its “Final Solution” of the Kurdish Issue. Some have found this unsurprising, given Turkey’s Ottoman ancestry. During World War I, for example, the Ottoman Empire allied itself with Germany, and in the conflict’s immediate aftermath conducted a programme aiming to exterminate the Armenians, Greeks, Yezidis and Alwis. To date, however, Turkey denies these genocidal campaigns.

The oppression of Kurdish people within Turkey can be defined as genocide in various ways; cultural, linguistic and physical all play a part in the cleansing of Kurdish ethnicity from Turkey itself, and are still embraced by the Turkish constitution.

The head of the British Parliamentary Human Rights Commission, Lord Avebury, said of Turkish atrocities in 1996 that,

"Just as many people in western Europe turned a blind eye to Hitler's preparations for the Holocaust in the thirties, the democratic world ignores the evidence of incipient genocide against the Kurds in Turkey today."

As history has shown in Iraq, Turkey cannot attempt to solve the Kurdistan issue with violence and oppression; the days have well passed in which campaigns of genocide can be “successfully” conducted, and Turkey must look to the future, realising that modern Kurds are not as Kurds from the dark ages.

Examples of atrocities by Turks

The history of Turks from Ottoman Empire to the Turkish State is a continuous attempt to eliminate any ethnic and religious group that come in contact with them.

• 1821, April 22 - Execution of the Patriarch of Constantinople, Gregorios and loosing of Turkish mobs on the Greek inhabitants of the cities and towns of the Turkish mainland, as a reprisal for the Greek upraise in Peloponisos.
• 1822 - The Sultan takes new reprisals to terrify the Christians on the Island of Chios. 50,000 Greeks are murdered.
• 1850 – 12,000 Armenians and Nestorians are massacred by Turkish government.
• 1860, April 7 - The Sultan orders a massacre of the Maronite villagers in Lebanon.
• 1860, July 6 - Syrians are massacred under the direction of Ahmed Pasa in Damascus. 11,000 killed.
• 1876 - Turkish authorities suppress an uprising in Bulgaria. 15,000 people are massacred in the area of Plovdiv in Bulgaria, among them are a number of Armenian members from the local colony. 58 villages and 5 monasteries are destroyed.
• 1877, June 28 – After the Russian retreat during the Russo-Turkish war, the Turkish army and Kurdish Guerrillas destroy Christian villages. Roughly 6,000 Armenians die.
• 1892, Summer – 8,000 Yezidis, near Mosul, are massacred and their villages are burned by orders of Ferik pasha for refusing to accept Mohammed.
• 1894, September to 1896, August - Sultan Hamit applies the policy of genocide to Armenians.
• 1894, August and September – 12,000 Armenians are killed in Sassun.
• 1895, October - The first organised genocide takes place in Constantinople and Trebizond.
• 1895, November and December - The Turkish authorities organize a large massacre throughout the country.
• 1896, June - Massacre of Armenians at the city of Van.
• 1896 – 300,000 Armenians are massacred in Constantinople.
• 1896, May 12 – 55,000 Greeks are murdered in the island of Crete, while the conflicts between Greeks and Turks in the island continue.
• 1909, March – 30,000 Armenians and some American missionaries are massacred in Adana, Tarsus and other towns of Cilicia by the Young-Turks.
• 1909 – Revolt of the Arabs in Yemen is suppressed by the Young-Turks.
• 1911, October 1 - Emilianos, Bishop of Grevena, is assassinated by the Turks.
• 1912 - The Turkish army retreat from East Thrace and loot the villages of the Didimoticho and Andrianopole districts. Villages in the Malgara district are burnt. The same happens in Kessani. Assassinations and massacres accompany the destruction and looting in this predominantly Greek region.
• 1913 - The re-occupation of Eastern Thrace by the Turkish army leads to atrocities against Greeks. 15,690 are massacred.
• 1913, February - The Greek inhabitants of Crithea are compelled to leave their village in East Thrace by the Turkish authorities. A brutal looting follows.
• 1914, January to December - More than 250,000 Greeks are exiled from East Thrace and the region of Smyrna. Their properties are confiscated.
• 1914, May 27 - The Christian population of Pergamum is ordered to leave the town within two hours by the Turkish authorities. The terrorized inhabitants take refuge in the Greek island of Mytilini.
• 1914, May and June - The Turkish authorities enact all kind of persecutions in the Greek region of west Asia Minor. The coast of Asia Minor is devastated. In Erithrea and Fokea Greeks are massacred.
• 1914, July and August - The Turkish government creates "the forced labour battalions". It is a new scheme for the extermination of the Greek-Ottoman citizens drafted in the Turkish army. By this method 400,000 Greeks are exterminated through hunger, hardship, maltreatment and deprivation.
• 1914, August – 12,000 Assyrians are murdered by Djevdet Khalil Bey. The number of Assyrians of all faiths, massacred by the Turks since 1895 is up to 424,000
• 1914, September - Greeks of the Makri region are killed by the Turks.
• 1914, November - By orders of the Turkish government many villages of Eastern Thrace are forcibly evacuated (Neochorio, Galatas, Callipoli etc.). Thousands flee from their ancestral homes to Greece.
• 1914, November and December - By order of the Turkish government, the region of Visii and part of the Saranda Eklisiae is evacuated. 19,000 Greeks are exiled in Anatolia and their properties looted. According to the Ecumenical Patriarchate records, 119,940 Greeks were expelled from East Thrace.
• 1915, April - Organized arrests of a large number of Armenian intellectuals and prominent national leaders in Constantinople and the provinces. They are deported to Anatolia and are killed on the way. The Armenian soldiers of the Turkish army are disarmed and massacred by the thousands. The Armenian population is exiled to the Syrian Desert and massacred.
• 1915 - The Turks initiate a fierce persecution campaign against the Syrian Orthodox and Nestorian inhabitants of Hakkari, Mardin and Midyat regions. One of the first victims was Adai Ser, Archbishop of Sert. This annihilation campaign which included large scale massacres and destruction continued till the end of World War I.
• 1915, August 20 to 1916, May 6 - The Ottomans hang 35 Lebanese and Syrian national leaders in Al Burj square in Lebanon and Al Marja square in Syria, with the charge of "struggling for freedom". Under Ottoman rule, a total of 130,000 Lebanese and Syrians are killed.
• 1916 - The Turks force the inhabitants of different regions of Pontus to immigrate to Sivas. Only 550 survived out of 16,750 inhabitants of the Elevi and Tripoli regions. Of the 49,520 inhabitants of Trebizond only 20,300 remained alive.
• 1916 - Destruction of the region Riseou-Platanou of Pontus.
• 1917, Spring – 23,000 Greeks, inhabitants of Cydoniae, are deported.
• 1917, November - 400 Greek families are expelled from S.W. Asia Minor. Their properties are looted.
• 1918, April - Another 8,000 Greek families are expelled from S.W. Asia Minor.
• 1920 - Chrisanthos, Bishop of Trebizond, is condemned to death in Adsentia by the Court Martial of Ankara. The Bishop of Zilon dies in jail.
• 1920 – 30,000 Armenians are massacred in the areas of Kars and Alexandropole by Kemalists.
• 1920, September - Kemalist Turkey attacks Armenia. The Armenians fight against the Turkish army, but finally they succumb on the 2nd of December 1920. The Turkish victory is followed by a massacre of the Armenians and the annexation of one half of the Armenia's Independent Republic of May 28, 1918, to Turkey.
• 1920 to 1921 - Another 50,000 Armenians are executed by Kemalists.
• 1921, June 3 – 1,320 Greeks, inhabitants of Samsus, are arrested by Kemalists. The next day 701 of the detainees are killed. The victims are buried in mass graves behind the house of Bekir Pasha. The rest are exiled to the interior of Anatolia.
• 1922, September 9 - The Turks enter Smyrna and ignite it. Massacres of Greeks and Armenians are organized. The death count is around 150,000 persons.
• 1924, July 10 - The Turkish army suppresses the Kurdish revolt in Hakkari. After 79 days, 36 villages are vandalized and destroyed, and 12 others are erased.
• 1925, February – 30,000 Kurds are killed during a revolt against the Turkish authorities. It is estimated that the Kurds have suffered the loss of 500,000 people by massacres and displacements by the Turks over the years.
• 1925, March 3 - The great Kurdish revolution bursts out at Elazig under Seyh - Sait 10.000 Kurds seize Harput and attack Diyarbakir, the Capital of Kurdistan After the complete destruction of 48 villages. The revolution was suppressed at 7/10/1927 drowned in Kurdish blood.
• 1927, May 30 - 2,000 Kurdish fighters are killed in Amed (Diyarbakir) and Agri. For many days, the waters of the Murat river are turned red by blood.
• 1937, May 23 - The Turkish government forbids the edition of the newspaper of Constantinople "Son Telegraph", because it has referred to the Kurdish sufferings.
• 1937-1938 – The Dersim Genocide, Approximately 40.000-70.000 of Kurdish Alawi (also known as Kizilbash) were killed and thousands were taken into exile. The Dersim Genocide was both continuation of the Kizilbash extermination of the Ottoman times and also an extermination of an ethnically distinct and separate people from Turks.
• 1938 - Turkey annexes the Sanjak of Antiohie-Hatay. Armenian and Arab population is exiled.
• 1942, November 11 - The law of taxation on property of the non-Muslims of Turkey (Varlik Vergisi) is voted. It is an attempt of economic extermination of the Greek, Armenian and Jewish communities economic authorities.
• 1955, September 6 - The Turkish authorities organize a great pogrom against the Greeks of Constantinople. 29 churches are burnt and 46 are looted. The graves of the Ecumenical Patriarchs and Christian cemeteries are vandalized. Thousands of shops are destroyed. Hundred of women are raped.
• 1963 - 1967 - Turkey provokes the stability of the newborn Republic of Cyprus by using agents.
• 1964 - Turkey unilaterally denounces the Convention of Establishment of Commerce and Navigation of 1930 (between Venizelos and AtaTurk). The Greek citizens are forced to leave Turkey immediately. Their relatives are obliged to expedite their departure from the country. A secret law is issued denying Greek citizens all their property rights in Turkey.
• 1964 - The Turkish government expels 12,000 Greeks of Constantinople declaring them as spies. Their properties are confiscated.
• 1964 - All minority schools on the islands of Imvros and Tenedos are closed while Turkish jails are established. The properties of the Greek population are expropriated. The Greek minority flee the islands. It is noteworthy that both the Greek island Sof Imvros and Tenedos are ceded to Turkey according to the Treaty of Lausanne because they lay at the entrance to the Dardanelles. According to Article 14 of the aforementioned treaty the protection of person and property of the native non-Muslim population is guaranteed. However, the intransigent Turkish policy of uprooting and annihilation of non-Turkish ethnic groups, and the systematic efforts to Turkify the islands with mass settlings of Turks are the reasons that today, from the 12,000 Greek inhabitants only 300 elderly people remain, for whom emigration would be pointless.
• 1967 - Vandalism in St. Anna's church in the village of Agridia in Imvros, another example of the Turkish policy of "national purification".
• 1973 - 1974 - De facto questioning of Greece's sovereign rights over the Aegean continental shelf, through the granting of research licenses to the Turkish government petroleum company (TRAO) and the sending of the research vessel "CARDALI" to conduct research in the area.
• 1974 - De facto questioning of Greek air space of 10 n.m., for the first time since 1931. Continuous and massive violations of Greek air space (over 500 in 1995 alone). Over 80 percent of violations occur at less than 6 n.m. from the Greek coast and even over the Greek islands. De facto arbitrary rejection by Turkey of Athens F.I.R. (until 1980).
• 1974, July 20 - The Turkish army invades the independent and unarmed island of Cyprus, a sovereign member of the U.N. and seizes the 40% of its territory, on the pretext that is necessary for the security of Turkish-Cypriot minority, which comprises the 18% of the whole population. In this campaign called "operation peace" by Ankara, 5,000 Cypriots are killed, 1,619 are kidnapped, hundreds are tortured, raped and exiled to Turkey.
• 1978, December 25 - Turkish fascists massacre hundreds of Kurds in Marash.
• 1978, December 28 - Proclamation of Martial Law in 15 provinces of Northern Kurdistan prohibiting for years any information about the suffering of the Kurdish people.
• 1978, December - 110 Kurds are massacred in the Northern Kurdistan, city of Kahramanmaras.
• 1979, December to 1980, September - Conflicts between the PKK and the Turkish state provided a distinctively ethnic source of violence. Few thousands Kurds were killed (mostly civilians) in different incidents.
• 1980, July - An outbreak of violence erupts in Corum, central Anatolia, causing 30 deaths and a mass exodus of terrified Alevis from the region.
• 1983 - A law banned the use, either in speech or in uniting, of any language not recognized as the official language of another country (in effect, Kurdish).
• 1984 - Turkey shuts off the supply of water from the Alkuwik river which originates from Turkey and reaches the south of Allepo, Syria, leading to the desertification of the area after its plains dried out.
• 1988, February - A pogrom night is organized to Armenian population in Baku and Sumgait regions with a replica organization of the terror night of Constantinople in 1955.
• 1989 - Passage of arbitrary Turkish law establishing Turkish "Search and Rescue" rights over half of the Aegean, in direct violation of ICAO rules.
• 1991, August to December - The Turkish Air Force and Army attacks the PKK groups in Southern Kurdistan with continuous bombing of Kurdish villages. More than 100 Kurds, including women and children, perished and 150 were injured.
• 1992 - Ankara builds the "Ataturk" dam on the river Euphrates and severely decreases its flow to Iraq and Syria, thus threatening the agriculture and economic survival of both nations.
• 1992, January to 1993, October - Turkish bombing of Kurdish villages. 4,800 are injured among which 2,000 eventually perish.
• 1994, May to August - Renewed Turkish raids on Kurds claim the lives of 400 Kurdish villagers and injure more than 200.
• 1995 - A pogrom night is organized by the Turkish government at Gari Osman Pascha district in Istanbul against the Alewi, a religious population.
• 1995, March 20 – 35,000 Turkish soldiers enter Southern Kurdistan under the pretext of fighting the PKK groups that, according to Ankara, had taken refuge there. Through indiscriminate bombing, torture and forced marches on PKK minefields, 200 Kurds are killed, most of whom were non-combatants. More than 50,000 Turkish troops moved into Southern Kurdistan. Along four routes, a 335 kilometres long border was breached and eyewitnesses noted that advanced Turkish teams were sent some 40 kilometres inside South Kurdistan. Civilian Kurds have been killed and refugee camps have been bombarded from the air.
• 1996, January 31 - The Turkish army lands some of its men on the smaller of the Imia islets which constitutes an integral part of Greek territory according to international treaties and agreements dating back to 1923. It is the first time that Turkey openly lays claims over actual Greek territory.
• 1996, May 6 - After a renewed, intensive six-week military campaign, Turkey withdraws its last soldiers from southern Kurdistan. The final number of the Kurdish casualties is more than 400. The injured are even more.
• 1996, August - During a week of peaceful demonstrations on the borders of occupied Nicosia, the Turkish troops opened fire on the demonstrators killing two people and injuring forty.
• 1997, February - Ankara responds to the Cypriot government's plans to purchase air-defence systems by threatening to invade and occupy the free areas. A threat often adopted since 1974.
• 1999 - The death toll of Kurds killed in Turkish military operations rises to over 40,000 and according to the figures published by Turkeys own parliament, 6,000 Kurdish villages were systematically evacuated of all inhabitants and 3,000,000 Kurds have been displaced.

[shyamd]

There is a lot more to Turkey/Pak relations at the strategic level brokered by the GCC and the US. So the Turks want some level of nuke cover which they get from Pak (they don't trust the US even though the US provides that for them as well) and they also have some sort of pact where if Iran launches attack against the Gulf - Iran and TSP are to simultaneously attack.

Source told me about it and it was confirmed during the Bahrain crisis, this hand was shown publicly. Syed Saleem Shahzad wrote an article confirming it too and that talks were underway at the time

[SSridhar]

I would say that it is nice to know the TSP-Turkey compulsions, but, frankly we care zilch about that. We have to get our piece of the cake from Turkey. That's all that matters to us. For way too long, we have been generously 'understanding compulsions' on various countries to take a stand againt us even when bilaterally we have had no problems.

[Prem]

One levrage we could have recently gotton was to have huge presence in Kurdistan. Too Bad GOI just squandered it with usual precastinations and idleness .

[shyamd]

I would say that it is nice to know the TSP-Turkey compulsions, but, frankly we care zilch about that. We have to get our piece of the cake from Turkey. That's all that matters to us. For way too long, we have been generously 'understanding compulsions' on various countries to take a stand againt us even when bilaterally we have had no problems.

Things are changing slowly - rest assured. Tri forces chiefs paid visits in the last 2 years. There are a lot of energy compulsions now and central asia access - we both need each other as well. More trade will help and strategic dialogue etc will change that.

[Rudradev]

Things are changing slowly - rest assured.

There are a lot of energy compulsions now and central asia access - we both need each other as well.

Uh... they have energy piped right through their backyard via Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan, and geographic proximity to both CA/Russian and ME oilfields. We have to rely on tankers. They have all the Central Asia access they want. We have none. So how exactly do we both need each other for these things?

More trade will help and strategic dialogue etc will change that.

I wonder where I've heard that one before... let's see... "give MFN to Pakistan and withdraw from Sir Creek/Siachen", that sounds familiar!

[shyamd]

You have misunderstood what I've said: I am saying they need a customer to buy all the oil and gas that is being piped out of KRG territory and Central Asia (which we are starting to do now). We want access to Central Asia. As we trade more with them we will build leverage.

The trade with Pak is a different story - it's to tie them into a strategic mesh and make it difficult for them to pull out - we'd rather do business than fight war. It's an attempt to change their mindset.

[RajeshA]

OT

The trade with Pak is a different story - it's to tie them into a strategic mesh and make it difficult for them to pull out - we'd rather do business than fight war. It's an attempt to change their mindset.

It's with the money they make from the business that they fight wars!

[habal]

Iran trades a lot with Pakistan wherever applicable, it hasn't changed the Paki attitude towards Shias. So trade to peace wrt Pakistan is non-sequitar.

[shyamd]

OT

The trade with Pak is a different story - it's to tie them into a strategic mesh and make it difficult for them to pull out - we'd rather do business than fight war. It's an attempt to change their mindset.

It's with the money they make from the business that they fight wars!

They didnt have money before and still fight with or without but this is about changing their mindset into one that is productive or else eternal war and we won't progress either.

But the people can force them to change their mind

[shyamd]

Iran trades a lot with Pakistan wherever applicable, it hasn't changed the Paki attitude towards Shias. So trade to peace wrt Pakistan is non-sequitar.

How big is the trade and how big is their external trade?

[RajeshA]

shyamd ji,

response here on expected lines.

[Agnimitra]

Iran's PressTV beats the drum on this bit of news:
Female Syrian refugees in Turkey being sold to Arab states: Turkish politician

The deputy chairman of the Turkish opposition Republican People's Party, Faruq Logoglu, says female Syrian refugees in Turkish camps are being sold to rich sheikhs in Arab countries.

Addressing the parliament on Tuesday, the Turkish official criticized the violation of human rights in the refugee camps in Turkey, saying women and girls are being sent to neighboring rich Arab states in exchange for money, Turkish Taraf daily reported on Tuesday.

[RajeshA]

OT

Carl ji,

so if one of Pakistan four fathers, Turkey, can sell Muslim women, Pakistan can do so too!

[Agnimitra]

But see, the Turks are trading Syrian refugee women, not their own! But then I guess it becomes a case of one fourfather selling the women of another fourfather! This ij conphujing.

Considering that Afghan refugee women (or girls kidnapped within Afghanistan itself) were being sold as wives or prostitutes in markets as far as Karachi, perhaps some of that can be siphoned off to India too? I do know that Iranian women (and perhaps some from N. Afghanistan) were becoming increasingly common spouses or second spouses among Moslems in Hyderabad, India, and some were finding their way into the prostitution industry. But what India needs are legitimate brides for our single men in certain regions, irrespective of caste or creed. Agencies need to break into the Islamist mafia - it will be to the benefit of the women involved.

[RajeshA]

Carl ji,

responded here.

[RajeshA]

Zionism

Published on Mar 1, 2013
By Patrick J. McDonnell and Sergei L. Loiko
Turkish comment on Zionism overshadows Syria efforts: Los Angeles Times

A flap about Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's description of Zionism as a "crime against humanity" overshadowed U.S. Secretary of State John F. Kerry's visit Friday to Turkey, a key NATO ally.

Kerry, on his inaugural trip as the nation's top diplomat, was forced to respond as Erdogan's comments ignited new friction between two of Washington's pivotal regional partners, Turkey and Israel.

Kerry said at a news conference in Ankara with Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu that he communicated U.S. displeasure with Erdogan's remarks. "We not only disagree with it, we found it objectionable," Kerry said.

The secretary said he planed to raise the issue "very directly" at a scheduled dinner with Erdogan. At a United Nations conference in Vienna this week, the prime minister said Islamaphobia was a crime against humanity, like "Zionism, anti-Semitism and fascism."

Davutoglu, asked about the "hostile remarks" about Israel, denied that Turkey had been hostile toward any state or individual.

Instead, the Turkish diplomat said Israel had displayed a "hostile attitude" during its 2010 raid in international water on the Gaza-bound ship the Mavi Marmara, an incident that left nine Turkish citizens dead and severely strained Turkish-Israeli relations. Israel said its naval commandos responded in self defense after boarding the craft. The Mavi Marmara was part of a flotilla challenging the Israeli blockade of Gaza.

"If we need to speak about a very hostile practice, I would refer you to the killing of nine civilians in open waters; they have not violated any international right whatsoever," the Turkish foreign minister told reporters. "Despite that fact, they have been killed, and this is a hostile attitude vis-a-vis Israel."

[arun]

Turkey apparently wants to keep its baklava and eat it too.

Our Ministry of External Affairs should in no uncertain terms tell Turkey that they will have to choose between Trade with India or pandering to Mohammadden brotherhood and a shared national track record of commiting acts of genocide with the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Ambassador Feridun Sinirlioglu, undersecretary of Turkey's ministry of foreign affairs:

Turkey's relations with Pakistan should not impact India: Feridun Sinirlioglu .......................

Is your strong relationship with Pakistan affecting your relations with India?

We wish India and Pakistan continue the ongoing process to improve bilateral relations between them. That makes us happy. But our relations with India and Pakistan are not dependent on their relations with each other. We'd like to see diversification and strengthening of our relations with India and we do not see this at the expense of any other relationship we have in the region.

Of course, we have long relations with this part of the world. We cherish memories of the contributions of people from the subcontinent to our war of independence. We value that very much. .....................

[Agnimitra]

Economist:
Turkey and the PKK: The war may be over

ABDULLAH OCALAN, the Kurdish rebel leader and sole inmate of a Turkish island prison since 1999, should by now “have become a perfect irrelevance, the living dead, a Kurdish Ariel Sharon. And yet he had not. His every delusional sally, every spasm of self-pity and promotion was greeted by his supporters as evidence for an ability to outsmart his jailers.” Thus wrote a puzzled Christopher de Bellaigue, a British author (and a former correspondent for this paper) in “Rebel Land”, a tale of eastern Turkey published in 2009.

^^ Just one indicator of what is wanted by UQ.

On March 21st, in a calibrated message read out by members of the pro-Kurdish Peace and Democracy (BDP) party to over a million Kurds gathered in Diyarbakir, in south-eastern Turkey, Mr Ocalan heralded the dawn of “a new Turkey”, saying it was time for “the guns to fall silent and for ideas to speak”. Assurances followed that the Kurds no longer had designs on Turkey’s borders. Turks and Kurds ought to “unite under the banner of Islam”.

Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkey’s mildly Islamist prime minister, called Mr Ocalan’s prose “positive”. Murat Karayilan, a senior PKK commander in Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq, swiftly declared a ceasefire. The pro-government Turkish media were awash with triumphalism. “The war is over”, assorted screeds declared.

-------------------

Islam is ‘Europe’s reality’, says Turkey’s EU minister

Responding to recent controversial comments by French far right politician Marine Le Pen, Turkey's EU Minister Egemen Bağış said Monday that "Islam is a reality for the European Union" and Europe against "burying their heads in the sand".

“It is Islamophobia rather than Islam that is visible in France and across Europe,” Bağış said, referring to French far-right leader Marine Le Pen’s recent statement that Islam was “more visible” than before in France. “We know Ms. Le Pen’s statements on Turkey and our values but we don’t care too much."

[Agnimitra]

Turkey police clash with Istanbul Gezi Park protesters
Video report in link.

[Philip]

The Turkey ready for "basting" what?

One must remember that Turkey was the equivalent in the Muslim world of the British Empire.The Ottoman Empire held sway over large parts of the Middle East from the 15th century and existed fro 600 years! Founded bu Osman Bey in 1299.It was the pivotal power between east and west.So the Turks also have "excess baggage" that all imperial powers suffer from.After the abolition of the Caliphate in 1924,Turky too ,like Britain,"lost an empire and has yet to find its role".Britain cleverly aligned with the US in a "special" Anglo-Saxon Atlantic relationship,apart from being a key power in NATO,while Turkey had to settle for playing second fiddle within NATO and still has not been able to join the EU and is unlikely to ever get membership.

The country briefly united in the aftermath of the botched Israeli raid on a Turkish Palestinian- aid vessel,but the war in Syria with the potential of engulfing Turkey and the ever-present Kurdish problem,has alarmed ordinary Turks,who have got fed up with "dictator" Erdogan who has held sway for 10 years.Demos ,now spread to Turkey's 4 largest cities,show no sign of abating.The Erdogan "Turkey", is ripe for the Ottoman version of "Thanksgiving".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... nrest.html

Turkey protests: Recep Tayyip Erdogan blames opposition for unrest
Turkey's prime minister has dissmissed protesters as an extremist fringe stirred up by the opposition, even as thousands returned to the Istanbul square that has become the site of the fiercest anti-government outburst in years.

By Agencies

3:22AM BST 03 Jun 2013

Over the past three days, protesters around the country have unleashed pent-up resentment against Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who after 10 years in office many Turks see as an uncompromising figure with undue influence in every part of life.

The protest began as a small rally against overdevelopment of an Istanbul park, but quickly snowballed into a huge, exuberant anti-government protest that continued over the weekend. On Sunday an estimated 10,000 people again streamed into the area, many waving flags, chanting "victory, victory, victory" and calling on Mr Erdogan's government to resign. The protest went on into Monday morning, with the crowds shouting "Dictator, resign!... We will resist until we win."

About 7,000 people also took part in protests in Ankara, the capital, that turned violent on Sunday, with demonstrators throwing fire bombs and police firing tear gas. More than 1,700 protestors have been arrested over the three days, but most have since been released.

Some protesters have denounced Mr Erdogan as a dictator. Scrambling to show he was unbowed and appealing to a large base of conservative Turks who support him, he delivered two speeches on Sunday and appeared in a television interview. In the appearances, he claimed the protestors, whom he described as "a few looters", were manipulated by an opposition "unable to beat (the government) at the ballot box."

"I am not the master of the people. Dictatorship does not run in my blood or in my character. I am the servant of the people," he said.

Turkey: Taksim Square protesters in angry 'victorious' carnival
02 Jun 2013

Turkey protesters celebrate after police leave Istanbul square
02 Jun 2013

He also blamed social media for stoking the unrest.

"There is now a menace which is called Twitter," Mr Erdogan said. "The best examples of lies can be found there. To me, social media is the worst menace to society."

Alluding to his party's strong base, Mr Erdogan said he had the power to summon much larger numbers of his supporters at rallies. "Our supporters are calling and saying 'are we going to stay silent?' but I am urging calm," he said in an interview with Haberturk television.

Under his leadership, Turkey has boosted economic growth and raised its international profile. But he has been a divisive figure at home, with his government recently passing legislation curbing the sale of alcohol and taking a strong stand against the Syrian regime that some believe has put security at risk.

The White House on Sunday night called for all parties in Turkey to "calm the situation." In a statement, spokesman Laura Lucas said the USMr believes peaceful public demonstrations "are a part of democratic expression." And she said Turkey's long-term stability is best guaranteed by upholding "the fundamental freedoms of expression, assembly and association."

The White House statement in particular called on security forces in Turkey to "exercise restraint."

The demonstrations were ignited on Friday by a violent police crackdown on a peaceful sit-in to prevent the uprooting of trees at Taksim Square in Istanbul and have since spread around the country. The Turkish Doctors Association said the three days of demonstrations have left 1,000 people injured in Istanbul and 700 in Ankara.

Some of Sunday's violence occurred in Ankara when the protesters tried to march toward Erdogan's office from the city's main square. A group of youths formed a barricade and hurled fire bombs or threw back gas canisters at police. Protestors also clashed with police in Istanbul's Besiktas district, where mosques, shops and a university had been turned into makeshift hospitals to deal with the injured, according to the BBC.

Protests were sparked by plans to build on an Istanbul park but have broadened into nationwide anti-government unrest.

An Associated Press reporter saw at least eight injured people being carried away, and police appeared to directly target journalists with tear gas.

In Istanbul's Taksim Square on Sunday, dozens of people climbed on the roof of a cultural centre that Mr Erdogan says will be demolished and turned into an opera hall. A banner reading "Don't yield" was hung from the building.

Edited by Bonnie Malkin for telegraph.co.uk

[Philip]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 41777.html

Erdo sounds just like Mubarak!

It's Twitter, not the 'Turkish Spring': Turkish PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan blames 'extremists' as protester is shot dead near Syrian border
The Prime Minister rejected comparisons with the Arab Spring wave of protests

Turkey's Prime Minister has blamed “extremists” for inciting tensions as reports unfold of the second death during the country's unrest, in which thousands of protesters have taken to the streets of Istanbul and cities across the nation for a fourth day of anti-government demonstrations.

A protester, named as 22-year-old Abdullah Comert, was shot dead late yesterday during an anti-government demonstration in Antakya, a town in the south of the country near the Syrian border, according to the provincial governor's office.

A statement said that it was not initially clear who opened fire at the Antakya rally, killing Comert, reportedly a member of the main opposition Republican People's Party's youth branch.

Earlier, the Turkish Doctor's Union had said that a 20-year-old called Mehmet Ayvalitas had been killed on Sunday when he was hit by a car that ignored warning to stop and ploughed through a crowd of protesters in Istanbul.

Police again used tear gas in Istanbul in an attempt to quell the protests, which began on Friday, when authorities launched a pre-dawn raid against a peaceful demonstration against plans to cut down trees in the city's Taksim Square to make way for a shopping centre.

The protests, which grew in reaction to the police anti-riot response, have since spiralled into the biggest anti-government disturbances Turkey has seen in years. More than 1,000 people have been injured in the past four days, according to medical officials.

Some protesters demanded the resignation of the Prime Minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, whom they accuse of being “authoritarian”, and of forcing his conservative, Islamic views into the everyday lives of secular Turks.

Mr Erdogan, who has been in power since 2003, has rejected the accusations, and has called the protesters “extremists”, “looters” and a “minority” trying to force their demands on the majority. He called for calm as he rejected claims that the protests in Turkey could be compared to the Arab Spring.

“This is a protest organised by extremist elements,” Mr Erdogan said, speaking to reporters before flying to Morocco on an official visit. “We will not give away anything to those who live arm-in-arm with terrorism.”

Referring to the nation’s free elections, he said: “We already have a spring in Turkey… but there are those who want to turn this spring into winter... Be calm, these will all pass”.

Meanwhile the country’s main stock exchange dropped 10.5 per cent, as investors reacted to the destabilising effect of the protests. A group of Turkish doctors also claimed that one protester had died after a vehicle slammed into a crowd in Istanbul, though this could not be verified.

Mr Erdogan played down the drop in the markets on Monday, saying: “It’s the stock market, it goes down and it goes up. It can’t always be stable.”

Turkey’s President Abdullah Gul, a prominent member of Mr Erdogan’s ruling AK party, defended peaceful protests as part of democracy. In comments to reporters, Mr Gul, also called called for calm, and said the “necessary messages” from the protests had been noted.

The Obama administration urged authorities in Turkey to exercise restraint and all sides to refrain from violence. The White House said the US believes the vast majority of those protesting have been peaceful citizens, exercising their rights to free expression.

On Monday thousands of protesters occupied the centre of Istanbul, centring in Taksim Square and Gezi Park, the origin of the protests. Many have set out tents in the park, as well as distribution points for food, drinks and spray cans of water mixed with vinegar, used by protesters to protect themselves from the effects of tear gas. Chants of “Erdogan istifa! (Erdogan, resign!)” could be heard throughout the day, but there were no other clear demands from the protesters.

“Now people don’t know what to do, they want different things, nobody was thinking of anything precise when they started protesting,” said Idil Akin, a 21-year-old university student, who was sitting next to the monument to the Turkish Republic and its founder, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, in the centre of Taksim Square. “Some say they’ll go home if [Erdogan] apologises, some say they’ll go home if he resigns, some say they won’t go home until the whole system changes”, she said.

Turkey’s Public Workers Unions Confederation, which represents 240,000 members, said on Monday it would hold a “warning strike” on 4 and 5 June against the government’s response to the protests.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/
Turkey unrest grows as US weighs in on protests

he view from Taksim Square: why is Turkey now in turmoil?

A peaceful sit-in to protect one of Istanbul's last public parks has become a barometer of the country's discontent with its increasingly authoritarian government. But is it fair to label this protest a 'Turkish spring'?
Elif Shafak
The Guardian, Monday 3 June 2013 18.30 BST

"My dear Prime Minister, I was an apolitical man; then how come I took to the streets? Not for two trees. I rebelled after seeing how, early at dawn, you have attacked those youngsters who were silently protesting in their tents. I took to the streets because I do not wish my son to go through the same things and I would like him to live in a democratic country."

This poignant letter, addressing Recep Tayyip Erdogan and written by one of the protesters in Istanbul's historic Taksim Square, was widely circulated on Turkey's social media. That the owner of these words, Cem Batu, is the creative director of an advertising agency, and he and his team of well-educated, modern, young Istanbulites have been subjected to tear gas and injured during the protests says a lot about the ordeal of these last days.

It all started as a peaceful sit-in to save one of the last remaining public parks in a city of almost 14 million people. The government has been adamant about razing the park to rebuild the old Ottoman military barracks that once stood there and to then turn it into a museum or a mall. It was a decision that was made too fast and without proper public and media debate. Many people, who would opt for a public garden over a shopping mall, felt their voices were not heard by the politicians. Of these, some have ended up occupying Gezi Park. At the same time, the hashtag #occupygezi was launched, calling out for support and solidarity. As Koray Çaliskan, a political scientist from the Bosphorus University, wrote in the daily Radikal newspaper, these early protesters came from diverse ideological backgrounds, and among them were even people who had voted in the past for the party in power, the Justice and Development party (AKP).

The harshness of the police treatment of those who occupied Gezi Park changed everything. The protesters' tents were raided and set on fire. A university student underwent surgery after receiving blows to his genitals. Sirri Süreyya Önder, an MP from the Kurdish Peace and Democracy party (BDP), was hospitalised after being reportedly hit by a tear gas cartridge, and many others received head and body injuries. Images of armed police officers using pressurised water, pepper spray and tear gas against unarmed youngsters sparked a widespread reaction, creating an unprecedented backlash against the government and unleashing old resentments. Protests flared up in 60 cities, including the capital, Ankara. Rapidly, the Taksim demonstrations snowballed into something beyond Istanbul, and bigger than the protection of a public park.

Three structural problems have contributed to the escalation of the tension. First, Turkey lacks a solid, sophisticated opposition party. This remains a fundamental deficiency, as people do not have alternative political venues to channel their views and frustrations. That which cannot be expressed accumulates and seethes inside, only to erupt where and when it can.

Second, while the main opposition party, the Republican People's party (CHP), has been visibly melting, the government has been gaining too much power and authority. Lack of meritocracy and transparency diminishes people's trust in the political regime. Recent policies, such as the restriction of alcohol sales and an announcement on the subway in Ankara warning passengers against kissing in public, have triggered fears that the government is interfering in its citizens' lifestyles and trying to shape society top-down.
Taksim Square protest Protesters have turned Istanbul's Taksim Square into a focus for anti-government feeling. Photograph: ZUMA/Rex Features

Third, even though Erdogan's government has been effective in terms of restricting the role of the army to purely military matters, and in this sense contributing to the progress of democracy, it has been insufficient in protecting freedom of speech and press. Writers and artists are still brought to trial because of their comments and are being accused of insulting the nation or religious values. The media has been losing its diversity and numerous critical voices have been pushed to the margins, while self-censorship is not unusual.

Another source of contention has been the name of a new bridge to be built in Istanbul. The government has chosen to name the third Bosphorus bridge after Yavuz Sultan Selim, the Ottoman sultan, nicknamed Selim the Grim, famous for his massacres of the Alevi minority as part of his war against Shia Iran in the early 16th century. This choice has deepened the dissatisfaction of the Alevi minority, who already suspect they are being systematically discriminated against. It has also created disappointment among democrats and liberals, who would rather have a neutral name for the new bridge. Mario Levi, the Jewish-Turkish novelist, tweeted: "Why not Rumi Bridge or Yunus Emre Bridge?" Both Yunus Emre and Rumi are well-respected historical figures and mystics famous for their humanitarian and peaceful outlook. Other people made different suggestions. Yet the name of the bridge, like other things, was chosen without much debate, widening the gap between the rulers and the ruled.

Erdogan is a successful politician, but compromise is not what he does best. The AKP has been better at winning the hearts of the Turkish people than any other party in Turkey's political history. However, there have been shifts in the party's discourse that have left many liberal intellectuals, who initially supported the progressive steps taken by the government, feeling deceived and abandoned. After the general election in June 2011, Erdogan gave a beautiful speech, saying he would be the prime minister of those who had voted for and against him, equally. That speech is embedded in the collective memory as "the balcony speech". Today, from their own balconies, people are banging pots and pans to protest against him. Among them are those who had applauded the balcony speech for being so embracing and constructive.

The prevailing mood among Turkey's discontents is that Erdogan now cares for primarily, if not solely, those who voted for him. The rest of society – 50% of the population – feel alienated, distanced and, at times, belittled. Turkey's politics remains polarised, contentious and stubbornly male-dominated. The sad fact that women are under-represented in both local and national politics does not help. Furthermore, even though nobody talks about this, we are an emotional people. Politics is too often shaped by emotions and reactions, rather than rational choices.

Save for a few newspapers, the mainstream media has been astonishingly reluctant to cover the protests. NTV, one of the most respected TV channels, was booed after failing to cover the events. Interestingly, NTV aired live broadcasts of the protests against itself.

In the absence of good and fair coverage, social media thrived. Research by New York University revealed that in just eight hours, 2m tweets were shared about Gezi Park. The number of internet users in Turkey exceeds 35 million, and Facebook and Twitter are incredibly popular. Nevertheless, social media is open to misinformation, baseless rumours, hate speech and conspiracy theories. In a society where few people trust either the politicians or the media, this can be dangerous. Yet Twitter has proven itself to be the main platform in sharing ideas, images and uncensored information. "Thank Allah for twitter" was one of the messages I have read. The same tweeter was described as a "menace" by Erdogan on a live TV interview on Sunday.
Turkish riot police officer A Turkish riot police officer uses tear gas against a demonstrator holding a banner that reads "Chemical Tayyip", referring to the prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Photograph: Murad Sezer/Reuters

A month ago, the mood in the country was utterly different. With the much-awaited Turkish-Kurdish peace under way, there was optimism everywhere. Erdogan was seen as a determined leader who had finally brought to an end a conflict that had killed more than 40,000 people over the past 30 years. There was a lot of talk about Turkey, with its overwhelmingly Muslim population and secular democracy, being a role model for the rest of the Muslim world. That spirit of optimism deteriorated dramatically. However, it can be revived once again if the government learns from its mistakes.

Calling the recent events a "Turkish spring" or a "Turkish summer", as some commentators were quick to do, is not the right approach. It is true that Turkey has lots of things in common with many countries in the Middle East, but it is also very different. With its long tradition of modernity, pluralism, secularism and democracy – however flawed and immature it might be – Turkey has the inner mechanisms to balance its own excesses of power. If this cannot be achieved, however, there is concern that the demonstrations could be hijacked by extremist groups and turn violent. The same concern has been voiced by the country's president, Abdullah Gül, who gave a constructive statement saying the people had given the politicians a clear message, and the politicians should take these well-intentioned messages into account.

Now, after days of upheaval, it is raining gently on the burning tyres and graffiti, and the voice of the young father who wrote the open letter to the prime minister represents the feelings of many people on the streets and in their houses: "You called us 'unlawful', my dear Prime Minister. If you only got to know us, you would see that we are anything but."

[Agnimitra]

I doubt this "Turkish Spring" is anything too serious. It is expected pushback from the liberal, anti-Islamist sections of Turkish society that are beginning to feel suffocated. Erdo has let a situation escalate that could have been sorted very easily. Erdo placed bans on alcohol advertisement. Erdogan apparently also has an obsession with women: how many children they should have; whether they should be allowed access to abortion; and whether cesarean section should be allowed. However, he has little to say about domestic violence. Long time women professors in universities are being accosted and asked to wear longer skirts.

There is also politics involved. Why would you want to remove a green space unless you are doing one of your supporters a favour? Plus there are some Turkish nationalists who have piggy-backed their grievances onto the protest about the park. Erdo's ceasefire with the PKK was deeply unpopular in conservative circles so he throws them a bone (ie alcohol prohibitions) to keep them on side.

A certain section of the population is going to push back, and certain political forces would take advantage. But Erdo's time in power has also brought some economic prosperity, etc. So I doubt this turbulence will go too far. He will probably throw a bone to the nationalists to appease them.

[Philip]

The demos keep continuing,another protester killed and a strike by major unions and even professionals are joining the strike.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 44159.html

Politicians accused of giving mixed signals
in bid to quell anti-government protests

Politicians accused of giving mixed signals in bid to quell anti-government protests

[Agnimitra]

Erdo was right when he boasted that if he wanted to he could organize a demonstration by millions to counter these few beer-binging protestors.

BBC Turkish reporter is clearly supporting Erdogan, against anti-govt protestors:

The crowd at istanbul airport is chanting "we are the soldiers of Tayyip." Passing cars honking horns, waving Turkish flags

PM Erdogan: tonight is not only you, I am addressing everyone in every city and town of Turkey. #live crowd chants: Allahu Akbar! airport

terrible irony that police who died in southern #turkish city of adana during anti-govt protests fell to death in road project

[brihaspati]

Come on - Turkey's Erdoganization was a long term Anglo-project. People, even on the forum had been talking a lot about the supposed "liberal", "secular" mainstream of Turkey and how the "Islamism" was all a sham. No. This was a longer term revival project that started even towards the end of Kemal's 14 year reign. The mullahs were allowe dto survive, institutions allowed to go on teaching the theology, and the rural side left virtually undisturbed. The same error or perhaps deliberate show - in conjunction with western govs to maintain their face with domestic and international audiences as to how they supported onlee "progressive" Islamic regimes by showcasing the cities. The same pattern in AFG, in Iran as well as Turkey. All had "leftist"/modernizing/secular urban movements. All had their regimes carefully overthrown to be replaced by mullah-backed or allied Islamists.

And people are surprised at the BBC voice going anti-demo? Spring is unwelcome on Londinium gulleys and allied and assorted gulley-lands as in Istambul or Ryiadh or Bahrain. Spring is to be gunned for elsewhere - those out of the alliances.

[Philip]

Very true.The Turks can rule as they like,but revolution and the Arab Spring must be exported to those regimes who don't toe the west's line.

Erdogan should study Indian history.Another ambitious leader,one Sanjay Gandhi also tried his best to "beautify" Delhi,with catastrophic results!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ju ... rk-erdogan

Turkey's prime minister vows to continue Gezi Park development
Despite mass protests, Recep Tayyip Erdogan to push ahead with construction, saying it will make Istanbul more beautiful

News
World news
Turkey

Turkey's prime minister vows to continue Gezi Park development

Despite mass protests, Recep Tayyip Erdogan to push ahead with construction, saying it will make Istanbul more beautiful
Luke Harding and Constanze Letsch in Istanbul
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 6 June 2013 18.39 BST

People wave Turkish flags in protests against prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan in Istanbul
People wave Turkish flags and shout slogans against Recep Tayyip Erdogan during a protest on Taksim Square in Istanbul. Photograph: Aris Messinis/AFP/Getty Images

Turkey's prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, has vowed to press ahead with the controversial redevelopment of a square in Istanbul, in a move that puts him on a collision course with tens of thousands of anti-government protesters and could provoke further unrest across the country.

Speaking in Tunis before flying back to Istanbul on Thursday evening, Erdoğan acknowledged that some of those who had defended Istanbul's Gezi Park had acted for genuine environmental reasons. But he also said "terror groups" were behind Turkey's biggest demonstrations in years and hinted at a plot involving radical Marxist-Leninists.

"Public property was damaged during the Gezi Park protests. The Taksim [Square] project is a project that will make Istanbul more beautiful," Erdoğan said.

He pledged to press ahead with the building of an Ottoman barracks on the site next to the park, despite the vehement objections of protesters. "You cannot rule a state with the logic of give and take," he said.

The prime minister's remarks were less abrasive than his comments earlier this week when he branded his critics as looters and fringe extremists. Most of those opposing him are secular, middle-class Turks, incensed by new restrictions on alcohol consumption and his unilateral style of decision-making. Turkey's stock market sank as he spoke, losing 4.7% of its value amid expectations of further violence.

Protesters massing in Gezi Park – now the scene of a vast Glastonbury-style democracy festival – branded him out of touch with the public mood.

"He's very stubborn. I can't really understand him," Ayce Malkoc, 26, said. "We will still go on protesting. We need green space."

Another protester, Lale, who declined to give her second name, said: "We don't want to fight. But we are not going to give up either."

Erdoğan did not say sorry but he did refer to an apology made by his deputy, Bülent Arınç, who on Tuesday admitted the police had behaved excessively, using too much teargas. Striking a defiant tone, Erdoğan said his Islamist-rooted Justice and Development party (AKP) had won three elections and notched up 21 million votes. "We are against the majority tyrannising the minority. But we are definitely against the minority tyrannising the majority."

Political analysts said Turkey's leader continued to misinterpret the reasons behind the protests, which spread last week from Istanbul to the capital, Ankara, and other cities.

"He believes there is a plot to overthrow him with the complicity of external and international forces," said Cengis Aktar, a professor of political science at Istanbul's Bahcesehir University. "Erdoğan has returned from abroad as angry dad. This is bad. It means he is preparing for confrontation."

Earlier this week Erdoğan denounced Twitter. On Thursday Turkey's EU minister, Egemen Bagis, heaped blame on the international media. Speaking at a press conference in Istanbul, he told the BBC's Middle East correspondent Jeremy Bowen that the corporation had encouraged the protesters to commit acts of vandalism. Turkey's pro-Erdoğan channels, by contrast, failed to report on the protests for days, instead screening a documentary on penguins.

So far three people have been killed and more than 4,000 injured in a dozen cities. Some 915 have received hospital treatment, with eight in intensive care and four critical. A policeman who fell from a bridge while chasing protesters in the southern city of Adana became the third fatality after dying of his injuries.

Turkey's interior ministry on Thursday insisted the authorities had behaved with restraint: "The police have done their duty selflessly and legally in hundreds of unreported demonstrations".

Despite Erdoğan's latest pronouncements, the future of Taksim Square is unclear. The prime minister announced that he was dumping the unpopular idea of a shopping mall but would instead build a "stronger and better cultural centre" – a reference to the Ataturk cultural centre facing the square which has been derelict for several years. Protesters have draped giant anti-Erdogan banners across its modernist facade. "They [the protesters] want to block the good things the AKP has been doing," he said.

Erdoğan also linked the protests with an attack in February on the US embassy in Ankara, in which a suicide bomber killed himself and a Turkish security guard. The bomber was identified as a member of the Revolutionary People's Liberation Party-Front, an outlawed Marxist-Leninist party. Although several socialist and anarchist groups have erected tents in Gezi Park, there appears to be scant connection; most of the protesters have no party affiliation and little interest in formal politics.

The square is currently a giant pedestrian zone. Barricades erected by protesters remain in place after riot police pulled out of the area entirely on Saturday. As well as watermelons and kebabs, street vendors are now selling Guy Fawkes-style masks, as used by the group Anonymous, and swimming goggles to protect against gas attacks.

[Agnimitra]

Women on the Front Lines of Turkey Protests

[Agnimitra]

X-post from Islamism and Islamophobia thread:

Interesting that Tarek Fatah is now calling Turkey as part of the fountainhead of international terrorism, along with TSP.

Mr. Tarek Fatah - International Institute for Counter-Terrorism's 13th International Conference



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATGTEFDv4kA

[Prem]

http://rt.com/news/greek-seize-ship-kalashnikov-503/
Greece intercepts mystery ship with 20,000 Kalashnikovs onboardGreece intercepts mystery ship with 20,000 Kalashnikovs onboard

The Greek Coastguard has intercepted a Sierra Leone-flagged cargo ship with around 20,000 Kalashnikov assault rifles on board. The intended destination of the vessel, halted near the Imia islets in the eastern Aegean, remains unknown.
The cargo ship Nour M, intercepted on Thursday night, was taken to the island of Symi the following morning under the escort of Coastguard vessels, where it was soon thereafter led to the island of Rhodes. The vessel’s Turkish captain and seven crew members, two of whom were Turkish and five of whom were Indian, were placed under arrest, coastguard sources told the Athens-Macedonian News Agency (ANA-MPA). The cargo was both larger than that declared on the ship’s manifest, and the ship did not have the proper UN documents to deliver cargo to a conflict zone. The Greek Coastguard issued a statement saying attempts to catalogue the firearms and munitions onboard were ongoing. “The exact destination of the arms and ammunition has yet to be verified," the coastguard statement read. Apart from the large quantity of firearms, the ship was also allegedly carrying a “large” quantity of explosives. A probe determined the ship had previously been used for drug trafficking.
Sources told ANA-MPA that the vessel had set sail from Ukraine, although the ship’s final destination remains unclear. Although the ports of Tartus in Syria and Tripoli in Libya had both been declared as destination ports to marine traffic systems, the Turkish Mediterranean port city of Iskenderun was declared as the destination port by the ship's captain. Ukraine’s Foreign Ministry said they are attempting to determine if the Nour departed from the country. Maritime expert Mikhail Voitenko told Ukraine’s Vesti that the ship likely picked up its cargo in Istanbul. “I think it was there for no other purpose than to get the weapons. It is also strange that it took the ship two weeks to get from Nikolaev [Ukraine] to Greece when the trip takes a maximum of five days. What it was doing and where it was doing it at the time: that is the question.” Voitenko said the vessel was likely detained as the result of a tip-off. “That we have this ship sailing through the Black Sea is strange, but through Greek ‘territorial waters] it went in a straight line, so police had no reason to detain the ship,” he said.

[habal]

this cargo was headed for Syrian rebels.

[Prem]

this cargo was headed for Syrian rebels.

Reference to Iskenderun Port was dead giveaway that it will end up in Syria.

[Rony]

In Turkey, religious minorities still struggle for equality

When people think of Turkey, they think of a westernized Islamic democracy where the rights of all of its citizens are respected, including religious minorities. Unfortunately, the sad reality is that Turkey treats members of religious minority communities – including Alevi Muslims, Catholics, Protestants, Syriacs, Jews and Orthodox Christians – as second-class citizens.

The problems they face are numerous and multi-faceted. For example, minority religious institutions lack legal personality, and as result, they cannot own property and do not have other rights typically accorded to others by law. It is as if these minority religious institutions do not exist. Other problems include confiscation of properties without compensation, interference in the election of religious leaders, restrictions on the training of clergy and frequent discrimination and numerous obstacles in establishing or continuing to use places of worship.

[Kamboja]

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... of_erdogan

Folks, interesting article worth reading about the current political battle in Turkey. A few highlights:
- Erdogan's AKP (Justice and Development Party) has steadily dismantled the strictly secular military state that Ataturk and his successors built over the past decade
- Now AKP, which was in alliance with the Gulenists (Turkish Islamists, as distinct from the more pan-Islamic MB-inspired AKP), seems to have declared a war of sorts against them
- Unclear why, although the author speculates that it's part of Erdogan's growing paranoia and desire to amass all power and control to himself
- Revelations about this Halkbank scandal seem to indicate an enormous scheme to bypass international sanctions on the Iranian nuclear program -- could mean billions of dollars worth of trade and benefit to the latter were enabled by some very senior members of the Turkish govt
- Conflict between these two Islamist groups likely to worsen in the near future; although it doesn't necessarily mean that the secularists will benefit

Interesting times in Turkey. From India's perspective any weakening of pan-Islamic groups like AKP is good, although a better outcome would be a return of Kemalist-style secularism. Unfortunately it seems that AKP still has the popular mandate, at least for now.

[Agnimitra]

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... of_erdogan

Folks, interesting article worth reading about the current political battle in Turkey. A few highlights:
- Erdogan's AKP (Justice and Development Party) has steadily dismantled the strictly secular military state that Ataturk and his successors built over the past decade
- Now AKP, which was in alliance with the Gulenists (Turkish Islamists, as distinct from the more pan-Islamic MB-inspired AKP), seems to have declared a war of sorts against them
...
Interesting times in Turkey. From India's perspective any weakening of pan-Islamic groups like AKP is good, although a better outcome would be a return of Kemalist-style secularism. Unfortunately it seems that AKP still has the popular mandate, at least for now.

The struggle between the Turkish MB-inspired pan-Islamists and the neo-Ottoman Gulen-inspired Turkish Islamists is not going in favour of Kemalists in any way whatsoever. This struggle revolves around the level of American influence on Islamism and its direction and focus in the medium term. Fethullah Gulen directs his movement from his estate in Pennsylvania, US. So the US retains a modicum of "control" over it than it does over the MB. When a Gulenist is arrested in Uzbekistan, the BBC ran a campaign against the Uzbek government for his release, though the same level of favour would not be seen if a Hizb-ut-Tahrir activist was arrested in that same country (even though HuT is based in Londonistan). Its just that the level of the working relationship between the Anglo-Saxons and the Turkish Gulen-type Islamists is higher than their trust with other types of Islamists. Whereas those Turkish pan-Islamists who are not Gulenists may take up causes that create some discomfort. E.g. the Israel flotilla issue was sparked by such pan-Islamists, and Gulen chimed in with support only a little later when he saw the rising tide locally. So the Turkish pan-Islamist appeals to the Arab street, whereas the Gulenist appeals to Western capitals, as a white face of Islamism that they can do business with. This internal struggle is just the wheels-within-wheels phenomenon, and there is no way Kemalists are going to come out winners. Rather, the Gulenists will end up taking the place of the Western-friendly Kemalists in the public imagination, and so the Islamists of different hues are now occupying both sides of the political divide within Turkey.

[Kamboja]

@Agnimitra, thanks for the additional detail and context. To clarify, I wasn't suggesting that the Kemalists stand to gain from the current internecine Islamist war. Still, I'm sure they derive some schadenfreude from seeing both enemies weakening each other (I know I do). And there are indirect benefits from our perspective, such as that the conflict distracts both the Gulenists and the AKP from broader pan-Sunni goals like the removal of Assad or propping up Pakistan.