LCA News and Discussions

[prabhug]

ironfist live here

http://livetvchannelsinfree.net/ddnational.html

[Sanku]

There is nothing bad about the LCA, despite what you say, Russophile.

Your exact comment was "Those a BRF legend with no real sanctity. There will be such legends for LCA too, its already starting" in response to issues with testing the T90 in Indian conditions. So don't try to make it look like you're now concerned about making products quickly. Your post count has no sanctity with me - yours or Austin's or Philip's.

Shall we talk about the "quickly" made AL-55I engine for the IJT? Shit flows out of Russia too.

Well you have demonstrated that you both lack the decorum to discuss politely or the good sense to talk about what is said instead of what you want to think others have said.

It is clear that you have zero interest in LCA either, you concern is only with running down Indian preparedness under the guise of appearing to care about it -- and using that as an excuse to snipe on other Indians.

But dont worry your personal attacks wont stop me from point out the facts AS THEY EXIST.

[SaiK]

not sure why the targets have be to marked [ground markings and lightings]? in real war, there would not be any targets marked for our forces. if one goes by mission objectives, it has to be pitch dark and nothing really marked. abhyas is not going give any metrics for IAF is my concern.

[SagarAg]

not sure why the targets have be to marked [ground markings and lightings]? in real war, there would not be any targets marked for our forces. if one goes by mission objectives, it has to be pitch dark and nothing really marked. abhyas is not going give any metrics for IAF is my concern.

I think its for the viewers SaiK ji and added safety I suppose.

[tushar_m]

loved LCA on IronFist ................................

engaged both air & ground targets awesome....... but need more .....

[SagarAg]

loved LCA on IronFist ................................

engaged both air & ground targets awesome....... but need more .....

LCA's performance at Iron Fist 2013 was badass.
Please please someone upload video of Tejas at Iron Fist 2013. Shiv saar kahan hai aap.

[SaiK]

not sure why the targets have be to marked [ground markings and lightings]? in real war, there would not be any targets marked for our forces. if one goes by mission objectives, it has to be pitch dark and nothing really marked. abhyas is not going give any metrics for IAF is my concern.

I think its for the viewers SaiK ji and added safety I suppose.

agree on the safety purpose.. and if it is viewers, I would have liked the lights come on after destruction! hooray!! the impact will shake the pakis b@lls to floor. verify by lights before action,[shock] and validate by lights after action. [awe]

[member_23455]

not sure why the targets have be to marked [ground markings and lightings]? in real war, there would not be any targets marked for our forces. if one goes by mission objectives, it has to be pitch dark and nothing really marked. abhyas is not going give any metrics for IAF is my concern.

This was a Demo. Not the exercise portion.

In a real war the aircraft would be employing very different tactical profiles and other procedures, and people would be shooting back so let's not become obtuse about the whole thing

[SaiK]

clear.. was looking for more awe [demo is where you shake both babooze and pakis]

[Sagar G]

The world over researchers tell the armed forces what should be the characteristics of the next generation and not the other way around. Designers use the forces inputs only on human interface to the machinery

I know which "world" you are referring to and please take a close look in that "world" and see how closely integrated the researchers and armed forces are. Only when they are integrated and work as a team they would be able to come up with next gen stuff.

Some "Devi" doesn't visit researchers world over in there dreams to tell them what the armed forces want next.

So, in your opinion IAF should get all the bricks and DPSUs all the flowers?

IAF should get the amount of bricks that they deserve, DPSU's are always wajib-ul-cutlet.

I did not bring in patriotism for melodrama. I brought it specifically for the great armchair generals who know or believe that they know what is best for the country.

Since you brought it to respond to me so I would like to point out that this forum is full of arm chair generals only, you are no different.

Are you kidding? How many products has HAL developed?!!!

I am not, go ahead tell me how many products totally developed by HAL has been inducted in IAF and whether IAF is facing severe operational issues with them.

Why should IAF solve DPSU's QC issues?

Why not they can always help HAL which in turn will benefit them only.

The Navy personal at the talk was categorical in saying that Navy has the same problems with DPSUs.

No he didn't say anything of that sort he said and I am quoting him word to word

I am Captain Sood from CEMILAC posted here from the navy. I am Air Technical Officer I only regret that there is very thin representation from IN for some reason we were not invited or we have got enough notice to call here because the issues which were brought out by Principal Director from the HQ's Vibhas Pandey was actually very very relevant for the Navy also. The issues are very very relevant for the integrator as well as the OEM I feel there is a lot to do as brought out by somebody here (points towards the audience possibly towards the LCA lady). If LCA 1 has had some issues I think it could be you know the issues would have been made good for a phase 2 or for the LCA navy. I think there is a lot of opportunity for you, I must compliment Air Commodore Vibhas Pandey for his excellant lecture.

He is only pointing out that HAL/ADA must look into any issues with LCA with sincerity so that Navy doesn't have to face them as well and don't try to bring in IN to save IAF. Show me a guy like Mao in IAF and I would buy all your arguments right now.

Don't try to hide IAF mistakes behind IN, both of them have a world of difference w.r.t. mentality towards defence indigenization.

Nobody other than you is suggesting that it will happen in a day.

Suffering from a slow day you are.

Because IAF has no other choice.And unlike what you think IAF does support indigenization.

Oh yeah it does that's why only in 2006 they started supporting the LCA programme, such quick moves by IAF Wah Wah. Also HTT-35 and recently HTT-40 also document IAF's sterling support for indigenization.

IAF spent more than 60% of its procurement in the last 5-year plan to indigenous purchases. Next 5 years, it is going to go higher.

What was bought through that 60% ??? How many indigenous warplanes were bought through that money ???

I think it has dawned on everybody that monopoly of DPSUs is neither serving the country, nor the DPSUs well. There has to be competition. So IAF/MoD are trying to nurture the other players while handholding the DPSUs till a healthy competition springs up.

Which is due to the ground reality rather than any display of forward thinking by IAF, again no points to IAF here.

[member_23455]

Not trying to incite yet another flame war here but I found it curious that @Iron Fist the aircrew of the LCA had a retired Wingco Tyagi IIRC - so this seems like an NFTC crew still.

I would have thought for PR purposes both the IAF and ADA would have wanted at least a regular IAF crew in the cockpit, even it was from TACDE or such.

[SaiK]

http://www.dnaindia.com/bangalore/repor ... ch_1801986

Indian fighter Tejas, which is slated to take part in Iron Fist Exercise, performing aerobatics display at Aero India in Bangalore.
Mohan Kumar B N | DNA

it is not getting joke anymore, could someone educate these folks?

[SagarAg]

Not trying to incite yet another flame war here but I found it curious that @Iron Fist the aircrew of the LCA had a retired Wingco Tyagi IIRC - so this seems like an NFTC crew still.

I would have thought for PR purposes both the IAF and ADA would have wanted at least a regular IAF crew in the cockpit, even it was from TACDE or such.

No no..why would IAF want to fly in LCA Tejas local bird ("Gar ki murgi daal barabar") hitting its targets accurately. They want to fly the Su-30's which aborted its mission twice. MiG-27/Mi-35 missing its targets
As you said I am not trying to incite yet another flame just stating what I saw today.

On the technical note: IAF pilots are not yet trained to fly LCA Tejas. Once IOC-II gets cleared IAF pilots will first get training on Tejas trainer before actually trying their hands on LCA Tejas.

[PratikDas]

It is clear that you have zero interest in LCA either, you concern is only with running down Indian preparedness under the guise of appearing to care about it -- and using that as an excuse to snipe on other Indians.

Yes, Indian preparedness is forever maximised with a blank cheque to Mother Russia.

[shiv]

loved LCA on IronFist ................................

engaged both air & ground targets awesome....... but need more .....

LCA's performance at Iron Fist 2013 was badass.
Please please someone upload video of Tejas at Iron Fist 2013. Shiv saar kahan hai aap.

If LCA was badass shiv has been an ass. He has lost the SDRE LCA part due to a technical fault. Lousy excuse - but it could have been avoided if I had been sitting in front of the comp while recording - I was sitting in front of TV watching and later went to check when there was a cable glitch which had crashed the software.

I guess it will turn up. Hopefully IAF will do us a favor and put up the shw as they did last time. However LCA footage was unspectacular because the bomb release was not seen and the moment of impact was missed. The LCA soon launched an R-73 - but i think it missed. Not the LCA's fault though. However no other aircraft has done a swing role mission. It is always either anti air or strike. LCA did both.

[SagarAg]

LCA's performance at Iron Fist 2013 was badass.
Please please someone upload video of Tejas at Iron Fist 2013. Shiv saar kahan hai aap.

If LCA was badass shiv has been an ass. He has lost the SDRE LCA part due to a technical fault. Lousy excuse - but it could have been avoided if I had been sitting in front of the comp while recording - I was sitting in front of TV watching and later went to check when there was a cable glitch which had crashed the software.

I guess it will turn up. Hopefully IAF will do us a favor and put up the shw as they did last time. However LCA footage was unspectacular because the bomb release was not seen and the moment of impact was missed. The LCA soon launched an R-73 - but i think it missed. Not the LCA's fault though. However no other aircraft has done a swing role mission. It is always either anti air or strike. LCA did both.

No problemo. Every other thing pales in front of the bolded part for me.
You made this jingo very happy today.

[NRao]

MiG-27/Mi-35 missing its targets

Every russian machine needs a French/Israeli/Indian component to make it work properly.

[Indranil]

...

Agree to disagree? Afterall we are not China. We can .

Between HAL's site has a list of products. It is not short by any measure.

[ramana]

So short answer to my question on LCA's bomb attack role, how did it do?

[shiv]

So short answer to my question on LCA's bomb attack role, how did it do?

Hit

[ramana]

Good.

[SaiK]

peerlessfriends.com/?p=409
As a run-up to Iron Fist, Tejas platforms LSP-2 and LSP-7 have together undertaken around 20 mission in Pokhran, so far. Team ADA-HAL is making maximum use of this free-firing opportunity to check the efficiency of the weapon-firing capabilities of Tejas. “So far, it was bull’s eye missions. We fired R-73 missiles and dropped 1000 pound bombs. On the dot,” a source told via text message from Pokhran.

that was the run-up to the final though. 'll await more news.

[Indranil]

Some new pics of LCA from AI-2013. (From tejas.gov.in).





















And there are the videos too from the on-board cameras.

[Drishyaman]

Some new pics of LCA from AI-2013. (From tejas.gov.in).

Thanks Indranil for sharing the photographs. But, a small question both the rear wheels cover not closing at the same time, is that normal ( may be there is nano seconds gap but the camera caught it )?

[Indranil]

Actually I noticed that one too. Ideally, they should close together. Also this gap seems to be of the order of 1/5-1/3 seconds. But it should be okay.

[merlin]

Not trying to incite yet another flame war here but I found it curious that @Iron Fist the aircrew of the LCA had a retired Wingco Tyagi IIRC - so this seems like an NFTC crew still.

I would have thought for PR purposes both the IAF and ADA would have wanted at least a regular IAF crew in the cockpit, even it was from TACDE or such.

No IAF crew is certified on the Tejas (except of course NFTC flyers).

[chetak]

Actually I noticed that one too. Ideally, they should close together. Also this gap seems to be of the order of 1/5-1/3 seconds. But it should be okay.

Very rarely would you find them closing together or even opening together.

This is quite normal.

Next time in a passenger jet, listen carefully as the wheels lock down for landing. There are usually three distinct sounds for the nose wheel and the two main wheels.

[Indranil]

^^^ That is why I said "ideally"

[SaiK]

there are latest pics from iron fist on tarmak and livfist.. but these folks have not shown yet the LCA. perhaps trying to create more hits to cover bandwidth to their sites.

---


i think the perfect place for LCA CFT is along the lines of y-inlet duct. just expand laterally, and conform to the existing shape or perhaps further blend it under the wings. it could be so designed such that it appears like CFT, and also could be detachable for missions. total of 1.5-2 tonnes to either side could be strengthened for mk.2.. but may not be necessary if it can be built in, and satisfy operational requirements.

[Sagar G]

Agree to disagree? Afterall we are not China. We can .

Hu

Between HAL's site has a list of products. It is not short by any measure.

Here is the link. Now tell me why am I laughing at your suggestion ???

[Indranil]

Here is the link. Now tell me why am I laughing at your suggestion ???

Well I don't find it funny whichever way I look at it.

My way: That is quite an impressive list. The number of companies in the world which can boast of such a list are less than 20.
Your way: That list is not impressive. In spite of having a monopoly for 60 years, there is not much to show!

[Murugan]

Was watching live tc of ironfist. Tejas hit a simulated target with a missile. Is there any pic of this?

[Sagar G]

Here is the link. Now tell me why am I laughing at your suggestion ???

Well I don't find it funny whichever way I look at it.

My way: That is quite an impressive list. The number of companies in the world which can boast of such a list are less than 20.
Your way: That list is not impressive. In spite of having a monopoly for 60 years, there is not much to show!

A few pages earlier you said....

The problem is not LCA/QC/Manufacturing/Design etc. but it is with the mentality running through IAF like the HAL guy pointed out and something which ex IAF Chief Fali Major also talked about in a recent interview to Tarmak.

You say so. That might not be the fact. IMHO, there is reason to believe the contrary.

One can't be biased. The people in IAF are equally patriotic as you are (if not more). Then why do they have that mentality? If you keep giving the user substandard products, the user will lose faith in you to deliver. It was very evident from AI'13 that IAF is strongly encouraging the private sector to come in. Because it has no faith left in the DPSUs.

But you could say what could IAF do for the national interest now. I think it should encourage the DPSUs. This way, 10 years down the line we would have good competition. And all said and done the DPSUs have some very hardworking and excellent people. There is no gain by dishonouring the work such dedicated sons and daughters of the country.

Amazing !!!! So within 2 pages from being critical of HAL you are now very appreciative of there "Achievements". Nice turn of events I say

Nonetheless, enough has been said now let's move on.

[abhik]

Between HAL's site has a list of products. It is not short by any measure.

Here is the link. Now tell me why am I laughing at your suggestion ???

Interesting but telling Product categorization :-
-Aircraft of Russian Origin
-Aircraft of Western Origin
(Aircraft of Indian Origin?-no such category)
-Aero Engines of Russian Origin
-Aero Engines of Western Origin
(Aero Engines of Indian Origin?-no such category)

[Sanku]

It is clear that you have zero interest in LCA either, you concern is only with running down Indian preparedness under the guise of appearing to care about it -- and using that as an excuse to snipe on other Indians.

Yes, Indian preparedness is forever maximised with a blank cheque to Mother Russia.

No Indian defense preparedness is maximized by ranting without knowing a b c of the world and taking down strawmen.

[PratikDas]

Your comment was in response to issues with testing T90 in Indian conditions and you tried to save Russian H&D by introducing legends and trying to make mud stick to the LCA.

When challenged, you introduced the idea of defense preparedness and portrayed yourself as the true Indian and me as the saboteur.

When challenged again about the cost of your idea of defence preparedness, i.e. handing over Indian taxpayer monies to Russia for the sake of defence preparedness, as if we have pants down now, you're accusing me of introducing strawmen.

The truth is that your comments reflect that of an honorary Rosboronexport sales agent more than one with Indian industry at heart. You introduced the strawman of defence preparedness, not me.

I don't care if in all your years you think you have learned d, e and even f of what is good for India but your comments don't reflect it.

[member_22539]

^+1 He and his tag team member are beyond redemption. Most people ignore their obvious biases, but once in a while it gets so irritating that someone responds. Unfortunately, they have more time on their hands than most of us, so they saturate the forum with posts akin to white noise and drown out any sane response.

[Sanku]

Your comment was in response to issues with testing T90 in Indian conditions and you tried to save Russian H&D by introducing legends and trying to make mud stick to the LCA.

If you dont understand what is being written ask politely and it will be explained, attacking people personally because your world view does not hold up to logical srcunity only goes to show cognitive dissonance.

I have explained with perfect parallels on how the LCA story (started in 85) mirror the Arjun story (started in 75) with a 10-15 year time gap.

To that I hold (obviously, those are facts in open domain) -- you dont like, hard luck.

[SSridhar]

*** Warning ***

No more LCA-Arjun Acrimony.

[VishalJ]

My Photo:
Commodore Jaideep Maolankar blasting-off
(click for the Larger Image)