Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

[Theo_Fidel]

This is not a violation of free speech. No one would have said anything if he NM hired the same hall the next day and gave a speech. Students invited NM without running it past profs/management. BTW some of the previous speakers have openly called for communal war in India yet were allowed to speak. Students are not blame less and as management trainees should have known how to handle this better. You can not expect there to be zero opposition to Modi, on his present path he is too polarizing. You can see what happened at Wharton.

BTW the student network bodies in USA are quite incompetent and hubs of radicalized politics. You can not expect NRI's to back them unreservedly.

That said there would have been no harm in letting NM speak.

[Sanku]

Isn't it hypocritical to feel angry if someone calls a BJP leader names, but then people will call INC leaders names?

So one should exercise free speech and go call whoever one wants names, preferably backed up with some sound reasoning only (for credibility purposes). How does lamenting alleged hypocrisy help matters?

What my concern is, that the thread is turning into a Stalinist lynch mob. It is enough for some one to say "enemy of the proletariat" (this person is against Modi) -- and off is the person to Gulag (name calling) -- no back ground material, no reason nothing is required.

Just an accusation (even if by congress) -- is more that enough.

And calling people names at the drop of a hat, also demeans the name calling exercise. Man mohan for all his crimes is called names, so is Shri MM Joshi (say) for not making a good enough speech in parliament, and so is Smt Swaraj for making a good speech in the parliament (what use of a speech types)

At this rate, this thread is merely a collection of frustrations of sorts sizes and shapes.

Seriously, it did start with Sushputi's behavior of not making a single post without making at least two or three name calls, but seems to becoming a epidemic, with posters like Muppalla ji, whom I have not seen call a name to even a corrupt congress person, and always posting long meaningful posts of content and PoVs, is also getting infected.

[devesh]

This is not a violation of free speech. No one would have said anything if he NM hired the same hall the next day and gave a speech. Students invited NM without running it past profs/management. BTW some of the previous speakers have openly called for communal war in India yet were allowed to speak. Students are not blame less and as management trainees should have known how to handle this better. You can not expect there to be zero opposition to Modi, on his present path he is too polarizing. You can see what happened at Wharton.

BTW the student network bodies in USA are quite incompetent and hubs of radicalized politics. You can not expect NRI's to back them unreservedly.

I think Rajiv Malhotra has a name for such half-a**ed justifications: Moron Smriti.

[Hari Seldon]

^^ Agreed sankuji. And devesh garu.

The dhaga should ideally be about documenting emerging mainstream news and views about NM and the dynasty. Some informed opinion on these would be great. Beyond that fighting imaginary battles on this dhaga has outlived its utility.

I would request sankuji to ignore sushupti (and vice versa) using the options BRF provides. May peace and order return to the dhaga. Only.

[Muppalla]

Seriously, it did start with Sushputi's behavior of not making a single post without making at least two or three name calls, but seems to becoming a epidemic, with posters like Muppalla ji, whom I have not seen call a name to even a corrupt congress person, and always posting long meaningful posts of content and PoVs, is also getting infected.

Sanku ji, you are making a mistake (of misunderstanding) and I don't want to waste bandwidth on the threads. I have your email address and I will explain it offline.

What is there to call names and write about Congress ones. Is there anything remaining to write about them that we did not discuss in over a decade association here. You name a character from INC, we have written enough. It will only become 108 times mantra patan. We have sufficiently covered congress treachery all the way from 2G, westland, and what not.

The election thread or this NaMo thread is about what is the challenge to Indian Government completely sabotaged by dynasty and its national/internation mafia from the primary opposition. How each of the leaders /non-leaders uttering their voices? Are they unifing themselves or squabbling? What kind of message they are sending? Are the sending confusing stuff? Did their utterances if confusing then is there any chanikyan stuff or pure selfishness or pure ego?

If I say MMJ is just ego (suppose) you are asking for proofs. Who will say I am elder and hence you all have to listen to me. Can anyone produce proofs as backup. If I collect a bunch of Brahmins those who are opposing Modi and ask why are these opposing and are these a phylum based on caste then you are making me a casteist because I did not produce proof. Forum is informal and sometimes we write "Atri ji, all these Brahmins are united in opposing Modi. What is the reason?" instead of "Artri ji, is there a Brahmin caste assertion in Maha?". Yes, second format is better than first one and I agree on that. But you being here for such a long time and both of us being here exchanging posts goes in a tangent and writes that I am putting here some "anti-Brahmin stuff" and then later a bunch of others pounce on me with similar assertions. One guy even goes to explain the importance of Brahmins in India to me going all the way in history.

If I have to write a bunch of posts to defend and explain what I wrote, the threads will become ugly. My question (agreed not properly formatted for whatever the reasons) was in the context of current affairs and more in the context of BJP and its musings. How can we bring some from INC or something else. I always thought you have better understanding and I never thought I have to explain myself with longer posts.

Is it not fair to say if we criticize any icons (great folks in the past) of parivaar, there is some knee jerk reaction here? I admit, I have been very very critical of Govindacharya, Baba Ramdev and RSS. Moderately critical of Advani, MMJ, Uma Bharati etc.

Anything else let us take on email. The discussions should not be about Muppalla here.

[Pranav]

If I collect a bunch of Brahmins those who are opposing Modi and ask why are these opposing and are these a phylum based on caste then you are making me a casteist because I did not produce proof. Forum is informal and sometimes we write "Atri ji, all these Brahmins are united in opposing Modi. What is the reason?" instead of "Artri ji, is there a Brahmin caste assertion in Maha?". Yes, second format is better than first one and I agree on that. But you being here for such a long time and both of us being here exchanging posts goes in a tangent and writes that I am putting here some "anti-Brahmin stuff" and then later a bunch of others pounce on me with similar assertions. One guy even goes to explain the importance of Brahmins in India to me going all the way in history.

As the saying goes, "correlation is not causation".

Somebody had posted a short while back about a Lingayat RSS leader who was complaining that "Modi does not work with people" or something like that.

And Gopinath Munde, whose men were tearing down Modi posters, is from a scheduled caste IIRC.

The problem with casteist generalizations is that they often miss the causative mechanisms, even if there is a correlation, which is not so evident in this case.

[Pranav]

Even if people in BJP expressely state they prefer some one lese, Modi is not Shri Ram that some one who says "Modi is not my choice for PM, xyz is" should be called names. There has to be some sense of proportion.

Fair enough. I would welcome it if BJP leaders were to openly and honestly say, "I prefer xyz over Modi for so-and-so reason". Let them be brave enough to be frank to the party grass-roots, and bear the consequences.

The problem is if the party wants to hoodwink its workers and the public, encash somebody's popularity while counting on backroom manipulation to push them aside post-election.

[member_23629]

Ania Loomba responds

http://www.thedp.com/article/2013/03/yo ... omic-forum

An excerpt:

Recently, one of India’s most respected historians has written that “Mr. Modi seeks to make his party, his government, his administration and his country an extension of his personality” and notes his “brash, bullying, hyper-masculine style, the suspicion (and occasional targeting) of Muslims.” His supporters claim that he is an elected leader but so were several dictators in history.

This passes off as analysis. And she is a professor? Most kids these days can write better researched articles.
Enjoy the comments ! Read the comments! Did not know Loomba was a friend of Angana Chatterji!

These charlatans are experts at quoting each other to prove their case.

[vijayk]

OK. Enough of Brahmins vs Modi or MMJ... Lets focus folks!

http://www.niticentral.com/2013/03/15/s ... 55860.html
Smash and grab of National Herald

One month after he filed a criminal complaint against Congress president Sonia Gandhi, vice-president Rahul Gandhi, treasurer Motilal Vora, general secretary Oscar Fernandes, family friends Suman Dubey and Sam Pitroda, and the private firm Young Indian, for ‘misappropriation’ of the assets of National Herald and associated journals, before the chief judicial magistrate at Patiala House Courts, New Delhi, Janata Party leader Subramanian Swamy tasted victory.

Metropolitan Magistrate Gomti Minocha took cognizance of the complaint on Friday and directed Swamy to testify in the case on July 9, 2013. The complaint was first heard by link magistrate Ambika Singh on February 14.

Swamy, a well known activist against corruption in high places, has alleged criminal breach of trust by the accused persons against the All India Congress Committee (hereafter Congress) and The Associated Journals Ltd (hereafter AJL) who are the publishers of National Herald newspaper, founded under the chairmanship of Jawaharlal Nehru to support the freedom struggle. Funds were collected from the public at large and since 1977 the party received tax exemption under Section 13A of the Income Tax Act as it was funding the paper.

Yet the assets of AJL shareholders were allegedly ‘misappropriated’ by the accused, under the cloak of Section 25 of the Companies Act, 1956, through crony control over the Congress and AJL, disregarding the conflict of interest and breach of trust involved.

The takeover was executed in eight steps. First, AJL was formally closed and printing of National Herald, Navjivan and Qaumi Awaz terminated in 2008, leaving an unpaid debt of Rs 90 crore approximately. Second, on November 23, 2010, Young Indian Pvt Ltd (hereafter Young Indian) was incorporated with a paid up capital of just Rs 5 lakh under Section 25 of the Companies Act, in which Sonia Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi owned 38 per cent shares each (or jointly 76 per cent).

Third, in December 2010, the Board of Directors of Young Indian passed a resolution to “own” the outstanding debt of the AJL, and obtained an unsecured zero interest loan from the Congress for equivalent amount to liquidate the said debt. Sonia Gandhi was then Congress president, Rahul Gandhi general secretary, and Motilal Vora party treasurer and CMD of AJL.

Fourth, the AJL held a board meeting and declared that it could not discharge the debt to Congress. It resolved without reference to and approval of the shareholders that Young Indian would own its debt, and for Rs. 50 lakhs its entire share equity would be transferred to Young Indian. Thus AJL became a wholly owned company of Young Indian.

Fifth, the accused wrote off the loan obtained from the party as irrecoverable.

Sixth, the AJL Balance Sheet shows that it had real estate assets of at least Rs 2000 crore (possibly Rs 5,000 crore), in Delhi, Lucknow, Bhopal, Indore, Mumbai, Panchkula, Patna and other yet identified places. These were provided by various Union and State Governments after 1947 for facilitating newspaper printing, and publishing.

Seventh, after taken possession of this vast real estate, Young Indian declared that according to its objectives submitted for obtaining registration under section 25 of the Companies Act, 1956 it will not engage in publishing newspapers, including the National Herald.

Eighth, National Herald House in New Delhi has been rented and Young Indian receives at least Rs. 60 lakhs/month for space made available.

[Atri]

First of all, Munde is from shepherd caste (dhangar) which classified as Nomadic tribe in MH-gazette. Yes, his supporters have been opposing NM. His relatives are contesting elections from NCP and INC. Not a dependable man.

Hence, I requested not to give caste-angle to NM's support and opposition. Munde belonged to ABV-Pramod Mahajan camp which has been sidelined within BJP. Partial reason for this is their own inaction. Nothing casteist about it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I forgot to add one more category of Hindutvavadis - The opportunistic and accidental hindutvavadis. People like Yeddi, Munde, Mahajan, Jaitley etc are opportunistic H-vaadis. Some of their arguments and their attitude look similar to Savarkaraite school, vis a vis, both of them do not give much importance to emotive religious issues, but the reason to do so is drastically different. Savarkaraite is as committed to rebuilding Ram temple, and reclaiming Kashi and mathura and others as a die-hard VHP and Bajrangi is. But once the path for temple construction is cleared, he may move on, perhaps not even visit those temples (or any temples) for darshana - This becomes a adhyatmika choice, not a dharmaarthika choice.

People like Jaitley etc, have gone on the record (available on Wikileaks) saying that BJP is not so serious about Ram mandir and hindutva and that these are only issues of electoral convenience. This is the difference. One should differentiate between Hindutvavadis and pseudo-Hindutvavadis just like we differentiate between pseudo-secularists and secularists. There is a huge lobby of pseudo-hindutvavadis which have entered in the tent of Parivar who really do not believe in the ideology of Hindutva and are in just because of temporary electoral self-interests. I agree one needs to work with them. But How much to yield on core-ideology is the choice which party has to make.

There was an important section which was genuinely suspicious of NM and his commitment towards the ideology of Hindutva (irrespective of stream - The RSS stream OR Savarkarite stream). This Neera-Ksheera vivekabuddhi (intellect to discrminate between milk and water) application is and was in process prior to GJ polls. There are many forces on the move here. There is one force which considers itself as guardian of the core ideology. Like it OR not, this is a tightly knit amorphous group - what we know as the nebulous RSS think-tank. It is but natural, given the stellar rise of NM. The attack on Gadkari forced one of the guys from that nebulous core to come out in open defense of Gadkari, to ward off the close attack. Everyone knows who he is. Usually, such people (his companions) stay far away from lime-light.

Anyways, coming back to the point. As far as I know, this group is now convinced about NM and hence they compromised on withdrawal of Gadkari. At one point, they were seriously thinking of breaking off all the ties with BJP when Bhagwat was made chief. If NM had not assured his ideological clarity, they would have kept Gadkari on as president and allowed hyperventilating people like Yashwant Sinha and all those non-RSS people to leave BJP. There was one important NM-Bhagwat meeting in october 2012 which clarified the issues. Things which were decided around that time are slowly being implemented now. Some wheels moved from within and this was avoided. Split OR no split, NM would have stayed with BJP and RSS along with other CMs.

As far as I know, the factor here for that groups apprehensions was not caste. In fact, the RSS-VHP relations with NM worsened prior to rise of Bhagwat and Gadkari during reign of Sudarshan and presidents Rajnath (first) and Advani (2004-2009). It is after March 2009 (when Bhagwat took over), that these internal malfunctions of party were addressed. Bringing in Gadkari was part of this. This resulted in NM's reassurance in late 2012 along with Subbu Swamy's inclusion in NDA (people may have apprehensions regarding latter). It is only after work of Bhagwat that all this brahmin-non brahmin started in public discourse. This was fueled by Mushrif's Zaid Hamidisque book "Who Killed Karkare". This was happening in much higher frequency in Marathi social media and MSM which started spilling over in Hindi and later English. The originators of this meme were Ajit Pawar's faction of NCP.

There was no "iron curtain"; only much worsened general economic condition of India under UPA-1 (in spite of that 8% growth rate hogwash, which was more or less "swelling rate" and not "growth rate") which made everyone suspicious of everyone else. Pardon me if I sound callous, but thankfully 26/11 helped in many matters - People agreed upon that India was in deep $hit and that it was high-time something was done about it. The issue of corruption, Subbu swamy jumping off in NDA bandwagon, his rattling the cage along with Ramdev and Anna and numerous exposés which brought India to policy-paralysis (nothing good can be done BUT not much bad can be done also, in other words, Minus 1 is better than Minus 10). Without 26/11, it would not have been so fast.

Looking back, from 2005-2008, was worst time for India in recent past. Whatever bad is coming up now, was actually happening then. And Nobody was speaking against it until 26/11/2008 when some people started thinking about resisting.

[Sanku]

Looking back, from 2005-2008, was worst time for India in recent past. Whatever bad is coming up now, was actually happening then. And Nobody was speaking against it until 26/11/2008 when some people started thinking about resisting.

Atri-ji; in a sense, I am so happy that UPA II happened, there were only a very little handful of us who saw what UPA I was doing. If UPA II had not happened, these people would have managed to get away and all the muck would have been shown as others work.

God is indeed great, even if he is not allah.

[ramana]

A non-castiest explanation to all the anti-NaMo tirades is that they fear their irrelevance if he rises.
So each of the opponents uses what is their unique rallying point to make their points and thus hide behind caste and groups.

[Sanku]

Muppalla ji, I am also of the opinion that this line of argument be put to rest on this thread and had elsewhere. Rgds

[Muppalla]

People like Jaitley etc, have gone on the record (available on Wikileaks) saying that BJP is not so serious about Ram mandir and hindutva and that these are only issues of electoral convenience. This is the difference. One should differentiate between Hindutvavadis and pseudo-Hindutvavadis just like we differentiate between pseudo-secularists and secularists. There is a huge lobby of pseudo-hindutvavadis which have entered in the tent of Parivar who really do not believe in the ideology of Hindutva and are in just because of temporary electoral self-interests. I agree one needs to work with them. But How much to yield on core-ideology is the choice which party has to make.

I belong to a thought process of one much yield 100%. You can only do in steps and trying to either climb the entire stair case in hop or trying to get down in one hop will result in injury. First and foremost step is to destroy the nandas and to do that you need a JP type unification (the variation depends on times). Once you get there you can start ignoring all that has been used towards the ultimate goal. In my opinion if we achieve the first step, then final goal is at reasonable striking distance (15 yrs)

[SwamyG]

Isn't it hypocritical to feel angry if someone calls a BJP leader names, but then people will call INC leaders names?

So one should exercise free speech and go call whoever one wants names, preferably backed up with some sound reasoning only (for credibility purposes). How does lamenting alleged hypocrisy help matters?

The way I see BRF is it is somewhere between a top think tank, and some yahoo/rediff like discussions and comment. It is up to us to exercise restrain. So it is fine to call Manmohan Singh as MMS (easy to write), and it is clever to call Maun Mohan Singh ityadi a few times. However after some time, it gets boring. It only serves to infuriate people even Modi-supporters. It is like referring MS (Microsoft) as M$. The charm and fun is lost after the first few times. For sanity sake, we do not have enough INC supporters in this dhaaga - they are not bereft of intelligence and cleverness; it would not take time for them to come up with something catchy for Modi. Then all hell breaks loose onlee.

Right now, we almost have infighting (so to speak) here, based on BJP's infighting. An easy option for everybody is to call people with their common names or as they are popularly known in the media (not what they are called on the streets). We get it that Sushupati does not like Advani and Vajpayee, mocking Advani and Vajpayee almost in every post is totally ewwwwwwwwww and puts me off - I am quite neutral. Imagine the plight/anger of Advani and Vajpayee's supporters. Now think of MMS or INC supporters. I do not know if Sushupati was warned.

Cleverness could be used to further highlight how Modi is better than MMS or any other person from INC. We could use our intelligence to connect the dots in the infighting within BJP, and even bring out analogies like: BJP leaders are like our former Indian rulers controlling their respective regions. INC is like the British Empire trying to hold on to the won territories and steal more. How BJP's infighting is only helping INC.

We have posts now ridiculing and phoo-phooing the Wharton invite and platform, as if it is beneath the dignity of Indian stalwarts. Would that opinion be still valid, if Wharton had not dis-invited Modi? And Modi had given a sterling speech?

I remember most of us BJP supporters bringing all our theories and enthusiasm here in 2009. We all had great insight and predictions. We all know what BJP managed to do. Two former admins had pointed out (or implied) that Hindus ought to look past BJP and not put their eggs in BJP basket alone.

[Sushupti]

Not good news if true.
http://politicsparty.com/shownews.php?newsid=149

[Muppalla]

Watch India Today conclave today (India time 16th 8pm) NaMo is going to address.

http://www.narendramodi.in/cm-to-addres ... arch-2013/

[Prem]

All i want from Modi is to bring in the policies in action to achieve energy independence to India. UPA and the other Koop PA politicians have this agenda of keeping power deficit in India in prepetyity to take their cut.100s of Billion we send out annually to not good fellows can be invested at home. This one ahcivement will be equal to washing , cleaning half of the Darider of last one millenium.
Is it too much to ask?

[nachiket]

You can not expect there to be zero opposition to Modi, on his present path he is too polarizing.

What polarizing thing has NaMo done on his "present path"? Of course for some people in India, Modi's mere existence is polarizing. I am assuming you are not one of them.

[VikramS]

I find all this talk of core ideology disconcerting.

What Bharat needs is development which instills self-respect. If the basic needs of people are met, and there is a sense of swabhiman, Bharat will thrive. While a strong ideological leaning can help give you that self-respect, in the Indian context it is less likely to succeed.

That is why I strongly believe that the IndiaFirst notion of NaMo. If India is strong, Bharat will be strong.

And on a personal perspective, I think defenders of Bharat should do a lot more to make sure that the vulnerable sections get the opportunities which keeps them Bharatiya. If they do not, then no amount of ideological conviction can help.

[VikramS]

You can not expect there to be zero opposition to Modi, on his present path he is too polarizing.

What polarizing thing has NaMo done on his "present path"? Of course for some people in India, Modi's mere existence is polarizing. I am assuming you are not one of them.

Yes Theo Sar please articulate that. I had asked this question earlier also. Even if you feel it will get you too many bricks, please do stand up for what you believe.

[vijayk]

This is what all we have to realize.

http://www.newsinsight.net/Flailingstat ... age=page-1

New Delhi: Politically, economically and militarily, India is in free fall. The United Progressive Alliance government will leave behind an almost failed state when it finishes term next year. Even if Narendra Modi becomes prime minister thereafter, he would have to strain his genius to put India again on rails. Between Sonia Gandhi and Manmohan Singh, they have done a spectacular job of undermining the Indian ship of state.

Scan the headlines of the past ten days:

• A punk state like Italy cocks a snook at India, refusing to send back the two marines who killed two Indian fishermen. Because Sonia Gandhi is Italy-born, the government is embarrassed, but it doesn’t cover itself with subsequent glory. Anger is focused on the envoy who gave sovereign guarantees for the return of the killers after casting votes in the recent Italian elections, not on Italy. Rather than instantly expelling him and downgrading ties, the government hides behind the Supreme Court. The marines will not come back, and India has been slapped on both cheeks. To go running to the European Union to mediate is rank ignominious.

• Weeks after the beheading of an Indian soldier on the border with Pakistan, the foreign minister, Salman Khursheed, lunches with its prime minister on his private visit to the Ajmer dargah. There are smiling faces for the photographs. The Pakistan prime minister has barely returned to his country than terrorists kill CRPF jawans in Srinagar. On the heels of the incident, Pakistan’s national assembly passes a resolution condemning the hanging of Afzal Guru, which rankles India. Why was the Pakistan PM feted in the first place? Did Khursheed forget the decapitation? That’s another slap on the Indian face.

• Turn to the economy. It is in the doldrums. There are enough private bankers (although after the Cobrapost expose, they should all be suspect) who say privately that India qualifies for junk status, one step below where it is presently placed. Sonia Gandhi and Manmohan Singh are squarely responsible for this mess, and it is beyond P.Chidambaram to save the situation. Votebank schemes like NREGA have bled the exchequer without bringing gains to the economy like skill development and assets creation, whilst entrepreneurship has been savaged by inspector raj, corruption, high interest rates, and banks’ unwillingness to lend to labour-intensive, risk-taking small-and-medium enterprises. Aside from Gujarat, Tamil Nadu, Haryana and Maharashtra to an extent, manufacturing is nearly dead. Rating agencies are turning the screws on the government to improve the foreign investment climate. Standard & Poor’s thumbs down to growth prospects tumbled Indian stock-markets today. Meanwhile, high inflation won’t let up, and the loot continues. After rape, Delhi may well qualify as the bribe capital of India and the world. Bad news that doesn’t get better.

• Then consider the spectacle of the Union home minister, Sushilkumar Shinde. He reads the same statement on the Srinagar killings twice over in Parliament, unaware of what he is doing. He is the butt of jokes in the home ministry. With Shinde as home minister, you and I have no business to be resting at night. Under him, and under the United Progressive Alliance regime, it is open sesame for the Pakistani terrorists. Precisely because he is incompetent, Sonia Gandhi keeps him as home minister. One man’s poison becomes another man’s meat. • Next, check the neighbourhood. The minority Hindus are being attacked and killed in their homes in Bangladesh, but not even a whimper from the government. India’s policies in Sri Lanka run counter to the interests of Tamils who are, at the end of the day, this country’s strategic forward assets. Maldives has secretly threatened India to go with China should it not cease championing the cause of democracy in the island nation and of its deposed president, Mohamed Nasheed. In Nepal, we are no more sure-footed, and Afghanistan will sink our humanitarian investments once the Americans leave and the Taliban take over. Pakistan has become an even more implacable foe as it self-destructs with terrorism and Shia-Sunni sectarianism.

• Finally, in a crunch, the military will defend India and its integrity to the last soldier and the remotest territorial inch, but the government has ill-served it. The previous army chief was victimized partly for his honesty. His near-contemporary as air force chief is now wanted for helicopter bribes. Defence corruption not only has rotted the higher commands but reached unit levels with the greater involvement of private contractors. Officer-jawan ties are at their most fraught, since development, education and social rise have made impossible the previous abject subordination of the non-officer classes, who have also come to abhor the brass’s “five-star culture”. Respecting war-preparedness, gaps in military equipage have become more critical, made worse by lack of political will to confront enemy action and hostile intentions. The government has turned a blind eye to the decline of the armed forces, which sends wrong signals to the neighbourhood and beyond.

[RamaY]

^
Yet we have many Indians, even forum members (who we assume to be more informed than Salman Kurshit and Shinde the slave) think they would vote for the parties belonging to Congress system because they think Hindu majorityism is a threat for the nation (based on what? Because a Christian Hitler killed millions of Jews and Muslim invaders killed and enslaved millions of Hindus).

And we complain if someone questions their patriotism....

[Vayutuvan]

Ania Loomba and Suvir Kaul

It would be sagacious not to underestimate both of them. If some of you have guessed that I would have had a chance to run into them, then you guessed right. They had been after CM Modi for almost a decade now. It was oh 7-8 years back, the first and second authors of the this opinion piece tried intimidation (using their position as professors at the University) and splittist ("bhEda") tactics to barge into a private gathering and protest what happened in Gujarat. I did not (and do not have to this day) an opinion one way or other regarding the "original sin" of gOdhAra and the subsequent opening of the Pandora's box. That said, I was certainly unhappy about the way these honorable women tried to intimidate a set of peaceful people going about exercising their freedom of religion guaranteed by the US constitution. Some in our group were intimidated but I went ahead and put an abrupt stop to these honorable people's enterprise with backing from Voltaire and the the US constitution.

Prof. Kaul is an honorable man but he never came back with a robust reply. May be his being a ghulam of the firang patricians and my being a ghulam of the the Carthagian satrap Nizam-ul-mulk has something to do with, I wonder.

"fac et aliquid operis, ut semper te diabolus inveniat occupatum"

Given that he is an acclaimed "Shakespearean Scholar" he could be a cats paw of the British elite. Kasmiri pandit background does not rule out Stockholm Syndrome.

They that have done this deed are honorable: what private griefs they have, alas, I know not, that made them do it : they are wise and honorable, and will, no doubt, with reasons answer you.

[RamaY]

OK some good news!

As part of the non-confidence motion against INc's KKR govt, MIM absconded the voting. The reason given was they did not like YSRCP, TRS joined BJP in the process.

And Owaisi guys says BJP is aiming 30 seats in AP as part NM's plan to become PM of India.

[Muppalla]

OK some good news!

As part of the non-confidence motion against INc's KKR govt, MIM absconded the voting. The reason given was they did not like YSRCP, TRS joined BJP in the process.

And Owaisi guys says BJP is aiming 30 seats in AP as part NM's plan to become PM of India.

RamaY garu, search any Telugu news and non-news sites, everyone is writing a TDP revival. Jagan wave is faltering and it is definite downslide. Congress is becoming nowhere. If the predictions become true and congress loses AP and Maha then it will be curtains for the dynasty.

[disha]

This is not a violation of free speech. No one would have said anything if he NM hired the same hall the next day and gave a speech. Students invited NM without running it past profs/management. BTW some of the previous speakers have openly called for communal war in India yet were allowed to speak. Students are not blame less and as management trainees should have known how to handle this better. You can not expect there to be zero opposition to Modi, on his present path he is too polarizing. You can see what happened at Wharton.

BTW the student network bodies in USA are quite incompetent and hubs of radicalized politics. You can not expect NRI's to back them unreservedly.

That said there would have been no harm in letting NM speak.

Again theo, you speak without facts, without understanding and with extreme bias. Is it malice?

First your point above which is underlined - "that students network bodies in USA are quite incompetent and hubs of radicalized politics.", should be discussed. How do you prove that? Particularly my work with schools, both in suburb and in inner city schools (where guns do go off every few hours right near school campus if not on school campus) have led me to think otherwise. That student bodies are quite competent - and we are talking about elementary schools - the garden variety 6th graders.

One school had a budget and a special appointed manager whose salary ran in 6 figures (in USD). And even though that is a elite school, it was not the "elitest" - some have budgets in multi-million dollars with dedicated finance managers as well - and we are talking of elementary school bodies! Exposure from running the student bodies here at elementary school level carries forward to middle/high/college and then to elite schools like Wharton. So a sweeping statement that student bodies in general in US are incompetent does not stand. That is a bias you are carrying over.

Wharton is a very elite school, its graduates manage and will be managing billions if not trillions of dollars of global economy. So stating that they are incompetent with a general bias that every other student body is incompetent is ignorance at best.

Second when students invite key note speakers - note here that they had invited Shashi Tharoor in past and they invited NM now, a CM (equated with Ronald Reagan in WSJ) of a state that is more diverse than US/Europe and one-fifth of US population (like California and Texas put together). Inviting one and gaining acceptance from a CM to come is no mean feat for such a student body. In this case will they would not have run it with their "professors"? It is not a decision that is taken by pulling a rabbit out of hat. It is a well thought, well parsed decision.

This is an event sponsored by several "big wigs" like the GOI, Adani's and others (at several levels like platinum, gold, silver, bronze etc). Try to wrangle a sponsor for your event. Try to wrangle it from all of the above! And then continue to do it year over year. This are big bucks we are talking about.

The fact is that they got pressure from somewhere else (read GOI) and they dropped NM based on a flimsy excuse (who knows that they themselves might have asked the painted and dented professors to do their rhona-dhona and use that as a pretext to drop NM to save their sorry ar-s-e, particularly after a successful SRCC speech by NM - a speech again dissected in WSJ and then blame it on NM - saying that he is too polarizing a a figure?).

And they were not prepared for the backlash. Currently Wharton has lost face, particularly their business graduates will face the question on taking tough decisions and staying with it - you see business is never run on consensus. So if its graduates cannot take a tough decision and then trust them not to vacillitate when a tough situation arises, how can you give the reins of multi-billion dollar enterprises in their hands?

Now two more lies we have to address in your post. First is simple, why do not you go and hire the "hall" to give a speech. Trust me if you do that, I will come and hear you. The point is you will not get it. The "hall" is not mean to be "rented". Period. So even if NM wanted to speak there, he could not and he was shut out for good on flimsy basis - hitting at the very bedrock on which UPenn stands on.

Second, NM is a polarizing figure? Can you elaborate - what is so polarizing about him? That he speaks the truth with clarity? That he does not pander to religion and class (caste is even smaller)? That he is decisive? If he is polarizing can you please tell me why Ombaba is not? 48% of US citizens rejected Ombaba. Isn't that a sharp polarization? And remember NM has shown that he has won 2/8 'ths equivalent US population 3 times.

So the argument that he is polarizing is taken from the same place where loombas of the world hold their thoughts (and then eject and on occassions with some pressure). So please do not carry such "thoughts".

Having said that, what is your bias and what is your malice? That it rocks your gentle world of supremacy? That the heathens and the pagans (the infidels) are capable of producing such a decisive leader?

And that is the point for so much resistance against NM from every other quarters. Their closeted worlds are under siege and about to collapse. That is generating so much angst. And some malice.

Edited: Added - NRIs better make connection with this student bodies. They will learn a lot on how democracy is managed and may get better ideas for their own upliftment.

[chetak]

This is not a violation of free speech. No one would have said anything if he NM hired the same hall the next day and gave a speech. Students invited NM without running it past profs/management. BTW some of the previous speakers have openly called for communal war in India yet were allowed to speak. Students are not blame less and as management trainees should have known how to handle this better. You can not expect there to be zero opposition to Modi, on his present path he is too polarizing. You can see what happened at Wharton.

BTW the student network bodies in USA are quite incompetent and hubs of radicalized politics. You can not expect NRI's to back them unreservedly.

That said there would have been no harm in letting NM speak.

Again theo, you speak without facts, without understanding and with extreme bias. Is it malice?

First your point above which is underlined - "that students network bodies in USA are quite incompetent and hubs of radicalized politics.", should be discussed. How do you prove that? Particularly my work with schools, both in suburb and in inner city schools (where guns do go off every few hours right near school campus if not on school campus) have led me to think otherwise. That student bodies are quite competent - and we are talking about elementary schools - the garden variety 6th graders.

One school had a budget and a special appointed manager whose salary ran in 6 figures (in USD). And even though that is a elite school, it was not the "elitest" - some have budgets in multi-million dollars with dedicated finance managers as well - and we are talking of elementary school bodies! Exposure from running the student bodies here at elementary school level carries forward to middle/high/college and then to elite schools like Wharton. So a sweeping statement that student bodies in general in US are incompetent does not stand. That is a bias you are carrying over.

Wharton is a very elite school, its graduates manage and will be managing billions if not trillions of dollars of global economy. So stating that they are incompetent with a general bias that every other student body is incompetent is ignorance at best.

Second when students invite key note speakers - note here that they had invited Shashi Tharoor in past and they invited NM now, a CM (equated with Ronald Reagan in WSJ) of a state that is more diverse than US/Europe and one-fifth of US population (like California and Texas put together). Inviting one and gaining acceptance from a CM to come is no mean feat for such a student body. In this case will they would not have run it with their "professors"? It is not a decision that is taken by pulling a rabbit out of hat. It is a well thought, well parsed decision.

This is an event sponsored by several "big wigs" like the GOI, Adani's and others (at several levels like platinum, gold, silver, bronze etc). Try to wrangle a sponsor for your event. Try to wrangle it from all of the above! And then continue to do it year over year. This are big bucks we are talking about.

The fact is that they got pressure from somewhere else (read GOI) and they dropped NM based on a flimsy excuse (who knows that they themselves might have asked the painted and dented professors to do their rhona-dhona and use that as a pretext to drop NM to save their sorry ar-s-e, particularly after a successful SRCC speech by NM - a speech again dissected in WSJ and then blame it on NM - saying that he is too polarizing a a figure?).

And they were not prepared for the backlash. Currently Wharton has lost face, particularly their business graduates will face the question on taking tough decisions and staying with it - you see business is never run on consensus. So if its graduates cannot take a tough decision and then trust them not to vacillitate when a tough situation arises, how can you give the reins of multi-billion dollar enterprises in their hands?

Now two more lies we have to address in your post. First is simple, why do not you go and hire the "hall" to give a speech. Trust me if you do that, I will come and hear you. The point is you will not get it. The "hall" is not mean to be "rented". Period. So even if NM wanted to speak there, he could not and he was shut out for good on flimsy basis - hitting at the very bedrock on which UPenn stands on.

Second, NM is a polarizing figure? Can you elaborate - what is so polarizing about him? That he speaks the truth with clarity? That he does not pander to religion and class (caste is even smaller)? That he is decisive? If he is polarizing can you please tell me why Ombaba is not? 48% of US citizens rejected Ombaba. Isn't that a sharp polarization? And remember NM has shown that he has won 2/8 'ths equivalent US population 3 times.

So the argument that he is polarizing is taken from the same place where loombas of the world hold their thoughts (and then eject and on occassions with some pressure). So please do not carry such "thoughts".

Having said that, what is your bias and what is your malice? That it rocks your gentle world of supremacy? That the heathens and the pagans (the infidels) are capable of producing such a decisive leader?

And that is the point for so much resistance against NM from every other quarters. Their closeted worlds are under siege and about to collapse. That is generating so much angst. And some malice.

Edited: Added - NRIs better make connection with this student bodies. They will learn a lot on how democracy is managed and may get better ideas for their own upliftment.

Anyone who is not a colonial coolie and refuses to take forward the agenda as propagated by patriots like those of the thaparite school who whitewashed and glossed over centuries of wilful atrocities and genocides committed by EJs of the abrahamic variety is as per some people labelled as "a polarizing figure"

Bias and malice do not enter into it. They are as intrinsic to the argument as "freedom of expression" for these people. The basic question of what is a minority in a democracy will always remain unanswered. That is why the faker SP udayakumar is always right and the whole country is always wrong.

[Vayutuvan]

One of the comments from DP opinion piece - posting without comment

)ontrarian Just Curious Again • 4 days ago
The four Indian student co-chairs of WIEF on student visa thought it prudent to not lock horns with the entrenched Professors is how I read it, it was a tough choice between a career and a stand.

I think it is a simple case of the "leftist Elite" (a mother of all ox-e-morons) pressuring the despised bhumi putras (the middle class).

[Chandragupta]

You can not expect there to be zero opposition to Modi, on his present path he is too polarizing.

Why is this fellow allowed to indulge in non-ending (hutiy@pa?

Theo saar, enough of shadow boxing, show some balls & come out of the closet.

[disha]

Anyone who is not a colonial coolie and refuses to take forward the agenda as propagated by patriots like those of the thaparite school who whitewashed and glossed over centuries of wilful atrocities and genocides committed by EJs of the abrahamic variety is as per some people labelled as "a polarizing figure"

Bias and malice do not enter into it. They are as intrinsic to the argument as "freedom of expression" for these people. The basic question of what is a minority in a democracy will always remain unanswered. That is why the faker SP udayakumar is always right and the whole country is always wrong.

Of course Chetak, they are colonial "coolies" even now, carrying the burden on their non-existent colonial masters in the hope that they will return some day. But we cannot call them that, heck we cannot call them even "colonial night-soil careers" since calling them coolies or night-soil career will be bringing dishonour to an otherwise honourable (but regressive) work.

And to appeal to their sense of superiority, point the mirror to their own bias and malice and hope that before all is lost, they will got over their cognitive dissonance.

^^ with such mouthful of words, can I join a pseudo-left journalism course?

[chetak]

Anyone who is not a colonial coolie and refuses to take forward the agenda as propagated by patriots like those of the thaparite school who whitewashed and glossed over centuries of wilful atrocities and genocides committed by EJs of the abrahamic variety is as per some people labelled as "a polarizing figure"

Bias and malice do not enter into it. They are as intrinsic to the argument as "freedom of expression" for these people. The basic question of what is a minority in a democracy will always remain unanswered. That is why the faker SP udayakumar is always right and the whole country is always wrong.

Of course Chetak, they are colonial "coolies" even now, carrying the burden on their non-existent colonial masters in the hope that they will return some day. But we cannot call them that, heck we cannot call them even "colonial night-soil careers" since calling them coolies or night-soil career will be bringing dishonour to an otherwise honourable (but regressive) work.

And to appeal to their sense of superiority, point the mirror to their own bias and malice and hope that before all is lost, they will got over their cognitive dissonance.

^^ with such mouthful of words, can I join a pseudo-left journalism course?

The colonial masters have already ascended the gaddi and have been in position for a long time now.

Whether it is someone praising the british and thanking them for their rule in India or someone trying to rally the troops with the shrill cry of maut ka saudagar or even some robed and cassocked ex nazi who claims the irrefutable god given right harvest souls in India, or even many bearded baboons who want to implement sharia right now, unmindful of the fact that a vast majority wants nothing to do with all their collective crackpot ideas, the masters are already here and have a far greater say in the affairs of the state than their representative weight would normally permit them to.

This is a situation that exists in no other state in the whole wide world. This is also the main reason why we have never had a coherent India centric and India first foreign policy since independence. We have been forced to pander to abrahamic EJ interests and sacrifice our own, all in the name of democracy.

Now, when Modi says India First, it sets the cat among the pigeons because it might awaken the sleeping majority.

[Singha]

south american countries also have the same issue. very westernized elites, native pops very marginal, poor peasants, no respect given local cultures.

[muraliravi]

Guys,

Please stop this crap. There is a prick who has no other job than hijacking this forum and you guys are naive enough to respond. Just ignore him, is it your god given responsibility to educate morons. If so, go elsewhere to do that.

[Hari Seldon]

^^ Exactly. yawn and move on. only.

BTW, twitter is abuzz (ain't it always?) with spicy anticipation of the next NaMo namaha speech from as grand a pulpit as any in India's non-government sector.... the India today conclave speech, due to start in a few minutes... sure, there will be youtube vids made, each comment and phrase dissected, speculations rife... etc

Looking fwd to another shot of hope and optimism to come forth...

[Muppalla]

Folks, in few seconds NaMo is going to give keynote address in India Today conclave. It is live on AajTak. One can also watch from his site.

[Muppalla]

I don't feel like we are watching news and news programs. The hype around NaMo is unlimited. They are showing all the way from receiving him, taking a special photo. Trying to get all the money via ads just on NaMo's speech. Pumping up TRP ratings.

[Muppalla]

^^ Exactly. yawn and move on. only.

BTW, twitter is abuzz (ain't it always?) with spicy anticipation of the next NaMo namaha speech from as grand a pulpit as any in India's non-government sector.... the India today conclave speech, due to start in a few minutes... sure, there will be youtube vids made, each comment and phrase dissected, speculations rife... etc

Looking fwd to another shot of hope and optimism to come forth...

Those who rarely Tweet also come out to make sure their tweet is there on the occasion. The new buzz is "PM in waiting...". NaMo Namaha

[Vipin_Upadhyay]

Live speech now, started with awesome video presentation.

Youtube live viewers crossed 2400 for the first time on IndiaToday channel.

[Supratik]

Awesome AV. This guy is the Lee Kuan of India.