Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 30 Apr 2013 13:45

Singha wrote:got a nugget from latest issue of india today.

rajeev shukla the minister for parliamentary affairs & reforms + IPL supremo + 10 janpath loyalist is actually the BIL of ravi pratap singh the BJP MP and deputy leader of the oppn in parliament. he is also good friends with jaitley who is the delhi cricket chief and shukla the UP cricket chief.

the article notes he rose to congi prominence as a investigative journalist who wrote some articles against VP singh and his camp.

-------
so you see all the dilli billi bjp types are not really at odds with the congress. their interests and ties always intersect one way or another. congis need a oppn to stave off anti-monopoly laws and the bjp is it.
their's is a urbane game of opposing pov in debates on TV and private friendships going back a long long way sometimes to school days. they call it vibrant democracy, I call it a oligarchy with all rules rigged.

only a outsider like namo with no skin in the game can take apart the delhi 'system' of back scratching and insiders. no wonder the delhi bjp & media starlets are more terrified of him than the congis

I remember from a First Post Google Hangout session discussing Gujarat elections (where every Journo including Rajdeep were defining election seat thresholds for NM to qualify as a successful CM), in that event a lady journo asked in a serious tone - can you guys comprehend a situation that NM really comes to Delhi? There was fear and disbelief in her eyes and voice.

On a similar note, Tavleen Singh on an interview with Kanchan Gupta discussed that Modi's biggest weakness is that he is an OUTSIDER, this is sending shivers down the DilliBilli crowd.

If NM is able to move SG/RG out of 10 Janpath, that would be THE marker of power shift. I believe 10 Janpath is not a privately owned residence but a government bungalow, is that correct?

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 30 Apr 2013 13:58

Liked the way Sharad Yadav showed the place to Hyderabadi rage boy Owaisi in parliament. During his speech Owasi started shouting and brought in 2002. Sharad yadav said ingrowling mode: Bada Behooda Aadami hai jab dekho tab khada jo jata hai and then in howling mode " Baith jaa Bolne de bhai".

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 30 Apr 2013 14:27

10 junpath is a govt building. Dynasty people do not won any house in India as per my knowledge. Sonia does not even got a Car. See how simple these people are. ha ha ha.

Virendra · Post by **Virendra** » 30 Apr 2013 14:55

Sanku wrote:Atri-ji one clip is awaiting your feedback in your ekhat account.

Sanku Miya, dramics prefer using e-patra instead

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 30 Apr 2013 15:11

Just in:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 800406.cms

1984 anti-Sikh riots case: Sajjan Kumar acquitted in one case

NEW DELHI: In a relief for Congress leader Sajjan Kumar, a Delhi court on Tuesday acquitted him of all charges in a 1984 anti-Sikh riots case in which he and five others were accused.

Five accused have been found gulity on various charges. Three of five accused have been found guilty of murder.

District Judge J R Aryan had reserved the judgement on April 16 after the counsel for the CBI and the accused concluded their final arguments in the case.

A shoe was thrown at the judge after the verdict was pronounced, Times Now reported.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 30 Apr 2013 15:12

Narayana Rao wrote:10 junpath is a govt building. Dynasty people do not won any house in India as per my knowledge. Sonia does not even got a Car. See how simple these people are. ha ha ha.

10 Janpath should be changed to a Museum for Lal Bahadur Shastri. The current residents should be kicked out.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 30 Apr 2013 15:14

Found this online: Apologies if already posted...

I ran an anagram for Narendra Modi & guess what, it returned ‘ End Roman Raid’

à¤µà¤°à¥à¤£ · Post by **à¤µà¤°à¥à¤£** » 30 Apr 2013 15:57

Hari Seldon wrote:Found this online: Apologies if already posted...

I ran an anagram for Narendra Modi & guess what, it returned ‘ End Roman Raid’

Rahul Gandhi returns 'Hah Liar Dung'

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 30 Apr 2013 17:05

^^
Alaric!!! Nah too risky for us.

But interesting coincidences these two - ‘ End Roman Raid’ vs. 'Hah Liar Dung'

Continuing on with the BJP response (Nirmala Sitharaman) to the slack given to Kongis in the 84 cases:

http://post.jagran.com/1984-antisikh-ri ... 1365687428

"In 2002 it was a riot. I would not justify it for even a minute. But the administration responded by calling in the army. In 1984, it was a one-sided massacre. People were not allowed to lodge an FIR. Army was deployed in Delhi only on the third day and in other places only on the fourth day," Sitharaman said.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 30 Apr 2013 18:05

Governament is dusting off the Communal riots bill once again. It will be one of the thing pushed hard by secular gang and INC. Fight is on for Muslim votes. Allowing Sarabjit Singh to die(murdered) in Pakiland is also seems to be a game plan. INC wants secret frindship with Pakiland for Muslim votes in India.

So for Muslim votes INC plan seems to be 1. Communal riots bill 2. Paki frindship, 3 financial package 4. reservations at state level ( Attempts were made in AP earlier in 2009 election time) 5. easy of Jihadi terror and arrest/frame few Hindus in terror cases.

SP plan - Agreesive Islamic ideas, Azam Khan drama, easy on terror. Muslim victimhood, Anti US agitations.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 30 Apr 2013 18:14

It is not SIT that is worrisome, it is what INC can do to be in power that is worrisome. INC has the abilities and means to convert a yorker into six. If clean bowled, the umpire will give a no ball ityadi....be scared of INC. It plays dirty.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 30 Apr 2013 18:25

SwamyG wrote:It is not SIT that is worrisome, it is what INC can do to be in power that is worrisome. INC has the abilities and means to convert a yorker into six. If clean bowled, the umpire will give a no ball ityadi....be scared of INC. It plays dirty.

Yet it doesn't show any of these cunning and coercive capabilities to further national interests. We do not see INC using all the state powers to put Pakistan/China/Nepal/Burma/Bungladesh/Srilanka/Maldives/GCC/Iran/Afghanistan in their place.

Congress-system uses all its powers in holding power on and over Bharat. That makes it a colonial power that is ruling Bharat and not a Bharatiya power.

If people support such a congress-system for any caste/religion/secular reasons, they are unpatriotic.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 30 Apr 2013 19:00

RamaY wrote:If people support such a congress-system for any caste/religion/secular reasons, they are unpatriotic.

But what about reasons like privilege, favoritism, money, etc.? Are they kosher?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 30 Apr 2013 19:12

ravig, dharmaraj, disha - ji et al,
I see political subtleties in the future long before they happen. The unease I feel with this current approach - stems from an awareness of historical as well as current processes, that coopt and coerce "outsiders" to the system - who might rcok the boat - in ways that ultimately perpetuates the system.

It is important not reduce the demanding voice that also wants RJB, for the sake of appeasing those who claim that such toning downs alone will make NM "acceptable". The pressure must be kept on NM - so that he, if willing, can fight back saying he also has this "constituency" to take care of.

I myself would not see a great deal of personal faith in construction of the RJB - for territory/icon/holy-spot is not such a supreme bit for me [they can be lost, and they can be recovered - while equation the identity and nation with them can destroy the nation when they are temporarily lost or we need to make strategic territorial retreats.] But I will vehemently support those who want to reconstruct RJB, and would like to see it not sink in the acceptability game.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 30 Apr 2013 19:16

RajeshA wrote:
RamaY wrote:If people support such a congress-system for any caste/religion/secular reasons, they are unpatriotic.
But what about reasons like privilege, favoritism, money, etc.? Are they kosher?

Remember this?

As Proud and Conscious Bharatiyas we promise that
3. Our pursuit of INDIVIDUAL IDENTITY does not submit to any entity outside Bharat
4. Our pursuit of INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY does not impinge upon national security
5. Our pursuit of INDIVIDUAL GLORY does not undermine Satya, Dharma and Compassion

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 30 Apr 2013 19:19

NaMo seems to have a great charismatic pull. Unlike ABV, NaMo is not a fountainhead of BJP. By that time he swore as CM first time he is not considered as heavy weight even in BJP, now among heavy weights he is first. 2002 riots will remain as a watershed moment for modern India, because they brought best of NaMo. He is born with a huge Karmic debt to 1+ billion Indians and he has to repay it by becoming ruler of this nation.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 30 Apr 2013 19:28

RamaY wrote:Remember this?
As Proud and Conscious Bharatiyas we promise that
3. Our pursuit of INDIVIDUAL IDENTITY does not submit to any entity outside Bharat
4. Our pursuit of INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY does not impinge upon national security
5. Our pursuit of INDIVIDUAL GLORY does not undermine Satya, Dharma and Compassion

RamaY ji,

of course I remember! That was a brilliant formulation!

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 30 Apr 2013 19:34

dharmaraj wrote:regarding namo's "not being hindu neta onlee"; i can only say that we gotta deal with it.
i only see him as a leader who can bring-
1. governance
2. better economy
3. better business opportunity
4. mic
5. strong foreign policy

i do not expect any constitunional amendment or ram mandir or kashmir or tibet or mansarovar from him
these tasks are better left for new upcoming leaders who are hungry for letting the world know about their hindu roots.
there will be "hindu onlee" leaders, just give some time.
for the time being- even if i did not liked what he said, he is the best option available.
and...oh... certain posters are being very protective of modi when they stop others from criticizing him. they even go and say " namo is not a leader for you " .
well this is not required. namo is our leader but he is not above criticism.

There is a definite need for a Bharatiya leader to assert his/her Hindu identity and ideology.

This is nothing unusual. Even in the oldest democracy, sole super power, secular of the seculars, most open society like USA also demanded that Obama asserts his Christian identity before becoming acceptable to the Americans. So there is nothing wrong Bharat demanding its Prime Minister and President assert their Hindu identity and ideology before they become acceptable to the Hindu majority.

However this is not allowed to happen because India is plagued with secularism, which suppresses the rights of the majority and admonishes any assertion of their identity. The secularism must be kicked out of Bharat first. I pity those idiots who think and say Indian minorities cannot be safe and progressive in a Hindu Bharat.

PM of India being non-corrupt, nationalistic, offer good governance and even extend Indian Interests is not good enough. By some of these measures even some Moghals and British are more effective Indian leaders than the current congress system.

I asked this question before. Should India convert to Islam, so it can reunify Bangladesh, Pakistan and Afghanistan to form an undivided Islamic Emirate of Bharat? That will make majority of our security concerns removed and make us more powerful and even secular?

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 30 Apr 2013 19:48

As Proud and Conscious Bharatiyas we promise that
3. Our pursuit of INDIVIDUAL IDENTITY does not submit to any entity outside Bharat
4. Our pursuit of INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY does not impinge upon national security
5. Our pursuit of INDIVIDUAL GLORY does not undermine Satya, Dharma and Compassion

This is my first sight of this and I have to say it is not well thought through at all.
Where is the full list? The constitution does not care one way or the other about any of this.

All it cares about are rights and obligations. You can do what ever the hell you please within those parameters.
The only time the state can step in is if a law is violated.

People are judged by what they have done and what the evidence shows.
Not by what they think or what they say or how they live.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 30 Apr 2013 19:50

^ It is in a different context http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 1#p1416651

You can point the incongruent parts.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 30 Apr 2013 19:52

Theo_Fidel ji,

that was part of a long manthan on the "The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition" thread on a Constitution for a Dharmic Rashtra. It was a hypothetical exercise and meant to convey the sense of the Bharatiyas.

If you wish, feel free to comment on it in that thread as well.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 30 Apr 2013 19:55

RamaY ji,

you can cross-post your post to the Bharatiya Thread where it can be discussed.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 30 Apr 2013 20:10

RamaY wrote:
SwamyG wrote:It is not SIT that is worrisome, it is what INC can do to be in power that is worrisome. INC has the abilities and means to convert a yorker into six. If clean bowled, the umpire will give a no ball ityadi....be scared of INC. It plays dirty.
Yet it doesn't show any of these cunning and coercive capabilities to further national interests. We do not see INC using all the state powers to put Pakistan/China/Nepal/Burma/Bungladesh/Srilanka/Maldives/GCC/Iran/Afghanistan in their place.

Congress-system uses all its powers in holding power on and over Bharat. That makes it a colonial power that is ruling Bharat and not a Bharatiya power.

If people support such a congress-system for any caste/religion/secular reasons, they are unpatriotic.

Agreed. And we hereby tie those points to the title of this dhaaga

What are INC's ideas of and for India? In my mind, I had given benefit of doubt to MMS as he focused on economy, and could ignore the government's lack of focus on other areas - notably military, diplomacy and foreign affairs. A country gains reputation when its economy is good (prosperous citizens), militarily strong and has higher moral ( humanitarian , ethical, dharmic ityadi) grounds - domestic and foreign to stand up on. India has done good when it comes to Afghanistan, but on all other foreign affairs - it is at best neutral if not abysmal performance. India has also been good as far as moral grounds go in terms of foreign policies. India does not discriminate, oppress or seek to wreck havoc on foreigners/foreign countries. However, the corruption of UPA is a major cause to worry. The reputation is in tatters. Militarily we appear weak, our economy is not moving forward (when the global economy is slowly recovering), opportunities and hopes have reduced, women and children continue to be raped/molested - with no good solution to handle the issue.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 30 Apr 2013 20:19

RajeshA,

If it is being posted here, is it part of Moditva...

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 30 Apr 2013 20:33

Theo_Fidel ji,

that was an off-topic reminder from RamaY ji to me to explain the sense of one his posts here. Now if others jump in on this off-topic reminder, then one can hardly help it.

It is one thing to mention something, and quite another to start an on-tangent discussion based on it.

So no it did not have anything to do with Moditva, but yes, it doesn't harm when somebody clarifies his point to another poster and thus brings in some short mention.

Sometimes the obsessive and overeager focus on off-topic mentions and their critique does tend to take the discussion off-topic, which otherwise would have been wrapped up in 2 posts.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 30 Apr 2013 20:34

OK. Not interested then.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 30 Apr 2013 20:36

Of course the Dharmics would continue to push their agenda on to Modi and his successors, and then it may indeed become on-topic!

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 30 Apr 2013 20:42

SwamyG wrote: Agreed. And we hereby tie those points to the title of this dhaaga
What are INC's ideas of and for India? In my mind, I had given benefit of doubt to MMS as he focused on economy, and could ignore the government's lack of focus on other areas - notably military, diplomacy and foreign affairs. A country gains reputation when its economy is good (prosperous citizens), militarily strong and has higher moral ( humanitarian , ethical, dharmic ityadi) grounds - domestic and foreign to stand up on. India has done good when it comes to Afghanistan, but on all other foreign affairs - it is at best neutral if not abysmal performance. India has also been good as far as moral grounds go in terms of foreign policies. India does not discriminate, oppress or seek to wreck havoc on foreigners/foreign countries. However, the corruption of UPA is a major cause to worry. The reputation is in tatters. Militarily we appear weak, our economy is not moving forward (when the global economy is slowly recovering), opportunities and hopes have reduced, women and children continue to be raped/molested - with no good solution to handle the issue.

SwamyG garu,

That is a pure congress-vada, albeit done eloquently. You yourself had to contradict your first half with the second half. Let me explain -

1. MMS is not the only Congress-PM who put so-called economy before territorial integrity, infrastructure, foreign relations etc., That has been the case since Nehru. Yet, what does the congress-system have to show after 60 years of economy-first governance model? Nehru Rate of Growth and Rajiv-Sonia-Manmohan-Rahul rate of corruption and so on.

2. It is really ridiculous to say that India doesn't discriminate or oppress and so on. It does "positively" discriminate Italians, Christian missionaries, Islamic jihadists and so on and oppresses Hindu majority with fake saffron terrorism bogey.

3. There are solutions to every problem. Problems do not go away by keep saying and doing the same things and expect new outcomes. India has tried that abrahamic-secularism and congress-colonialism for past 60 years.

It is time for 2nd independence movement. It is equally important to be clear about our vision and mission and call the eloquent traitors for what they are.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 30 Apr 2013 21:18

VHP Alleges Conspiracy by Modi Govt to Terrorise It

http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=796805

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 30 Apr 2013 21:55

Sajjan acquitted. Con party wants to clear everything before big bad bear comes in.

member_23686 · Post by **member_23686** » 30 Apr 2013 22:11

RamaY ji

being a fellow jingo, i would prefer if namo show some more hindutva... but we do not have any influence over him.

he is not perfect but he is the best option available.

so for the time being i'm okay with economy and mic while we wait for "hindu only" leaders

James B · Post by **James B** » 30 Apr 2013 22:17

Gus wrote:Sajjan acquitted. Con party wants to clear everything before big bad bear comes in.

There will be effect of this case in Punjab and Delhi, electorally speaking.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 30 Apr 2013 22:20

Will it give convulsions to dynasty worshipers or warns them not too put all their eggs in Madam's party.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 30 Apr 2013 22:25

dharmaraj wrote:RamaY ji

being a fellow jingo, i would prefer if namo show some more hindutva... but we do not have any influence over him.

he is not perfect but he is the best option available.

so for the time being i'm okay with economy and mic while we wait for "hindu only" leaders

Promising "Congress Mukta Bharat" and the way he took Nehru to cleaners is best display of hot headed Hindutva. It may be possible to destroy Babri humiliation but there is an omerta code regarding Dynasty. Anybody who broke that was physically remove e.g. SP Mookherji, DD Upadhyaya and Ram Manohar Lohia. Just look at how D4 has been following that like disciplined school boy since 2004 and earlier Mr Vajpayee.

Abhijit · Post by **Abhijit** » 30 Apr 2013 22:27

being a fellow jingo, i would prefer if namo show some more hindutva... but we do not have any influence over him.

Al taqiya is a concept that is useful to non-islamists too. What is wrong if dharmics use the islamist playbook and declare themselves secular while retaining the essential core values?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Apr 2013 22:31

Rudradev wrote:Sushuptiji Thats nothing- check out the rank fear in the two-bit chamchi Meira Kumar's eyes!

Ind Express gives a synopsis of Sushma Swaraj's speech. Can understnad Meira Kumar's consternation for she is being accused of being part of the INC cabal and breaking agreements made priro to the speech.

Sushma says Sonia undemocratice and BJP to boycott all meetings rest of the session

The already tense relationship between the government and the main Opposition party lurched sharply to the brink of total breakdown Tuesday after Leader of Opposition Sushma Swaraj accused UPA Chairperson Sonia Gandhi of "instigating" the treasury benches to disrupt her speech, and announced that the BJP would not attend any meeting convened by either the Speaker or the parliamentary affairs minister for the rest of the session.

The Congress president has "no faith in parliamentary traditions" and "no respect for democratic institutions", she said in an extraordinary attack on Sonia.

Swaraj said the Congress had violated the understanding reached at the meeting called by Speaker Meira Kumar on Monday that she (Swaraj) would be allowed to speak before BJP members walked out to facilitate the passage of the Finance Bill, Appropriations Bill, Railway Budget and Demands for Grants.

"Barely two minutes after I started speaking, the Congress president got into action. She incited ministers and her party members to disturb my speech. Strangely, the parliamentary affairs minister was at the forefront. With utmost pain I observed that the Speaker instead of controlling the ruling side, started telling me to wind up. Even she did not protect me," Swaraj said.

"With all responsibility, it is my allegation that the UPA chairperson has no faith in India's parliamentary traditions and no respect for democratic institutions." That was why, she alleged, Congress leaders were denigrating all democratic institutions, be it the CAG, PAC, JPC, CBI or Supreme Court. "In Parliament, they don't allow the Opposition to speak," Swaraj said.

"Whatever is decided in BAC is not implemented, but whatever Sonia Gandhi decides takes place. It has become clear that what Sonia Gandhi wants will happen in the House."

Swaraj declared that the BJP "will neither attend meetings convened by the Speaker nor participate in any talks with Parliamentary Affairs Minister Kamal Nath" for the rest of the session.

Referring to the Prime Minister's assertion that the Opposition was making a mockery of democracy by not letting Parliament function, and that the whole world was laughing at India, Swaraj said, "The world is laughing because of the government's conduct. The prestige of the country has been dented."

There was a "situation of total breakdown" in communication and the government was "responsible" for it, Swaraj said. In reply to questions, she said "the countdown for this government has begun".

Asked why the BJP was not bringing a no-confidence motion as suggested by a senior minister, she said, "We will talk about it... if that is what he wants."

Asked if there was a way out of the stalemate, Swaraj said the ball was in the government's court. She, however, clarified that the decision to stay away from meetings was only for the ongoing session, and the BJP would review the situation before Parliament meets again.

Reminded that Sonia has led the government charge in the past as well, Swaraj said the situation had escalated to beyond endurance now.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 30 Apr 2013 22:58

kmkraoind wrote:He is born with a huge Karmic debt to 1+ billion Indians and he has to repay it by becoming ruler of this nation.

Seriously? Really? He has to repay? Here is an individual who seems to be cut above the rest, and working making the lives of people better, and we shove more onus on to him, as if he has some obligation. Wow.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 30 Apr 2013 23:04

I am distressed at the direction this thread as taken.
While we need to learn from the non-Dharmics, we do not need to ape them.
Figure out their strategy, learn from it, and oppose them using all tools including Taqiya.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 30 Apr 2013 23:53

ramana wrote: Sushma says Sonia undemocratice and BJP to boycott all meetings rest of the session

Finally one of so-called D4 attacked Sonia Gandhi. I hope rest follow-suit.

It will be fun to watch LKA, SS, AJ etc go attack Sonia Gandhi and twist the undies of Congies.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 30 Apr 2013 23:58

RamaY wrote:
ramana wrote: Sushma says Sonia undemocratice and BJP to boycott all meetings rest of the session
Finally one of so-called D4 attacked Sonia Gandhi. I hope rest follow-suit.

It will be fun to watch LKA, SS, AJ etc go attack Sonia Gandhi and twist the undies of Congies.

Well the BJP central leadership has been attacking Congress in strongest possible words for quite some time.

Last time when Advani called Man mohan the most inept and weak PM ever, everybody got cross with a Sindhi making such nasty comments against the param pujya e-con-o-mist who was taking india to 800% growth rate and came down heavily on BJP.

edited NaMo's remark on Sashi Tharoor.