Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 11 Jun 2013 16:58

The way Sushma smiled at the camera's tells me it's not going to be easy on NM.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 11 Jun 2013 17:11

harbans wrote:The way Sushma smiled at the camera's tells me it's not going to be easy on NM.

Have been questioning since long whether it would not be easier for Modi to make a fresh start on his own.

Even now V. Naidu is going around making statements that the NaMo panel has no powers to choose candidates.

It is truly a snake pit.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 11 Jun 2013 17:21

And did Iron man 3 withdraw his papers? If he is back in the saddle then it is not good for NaMo and the sacrifice theory doesn't square off.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 11 Jun 2013 17:28

We will have to wait and see. LKA has done too much damage to the BJp with his resignation antic. Any return to the fold with Modi remaining in place is not possible. Having said so, 2 possibilities remain.

1) Modi gets sidelined.
2) LKA returns in a castrated avatar.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Jun 2013 17:33

The BJP cadre now sees Advani as a liability even as they are very appreciative of him for his past services to the party.

Modi is not going to be sidelined. He is now practically the face of BJP.

It is good that the tantrum has taken place now and not later. If there is a new tantrum later on, people start seeing it as the same old habit and don't really go into the demands.

Advani is castrated.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 11 Jun 2013 17:33

Sanku wrote: I would like to challenge anyone who says LKA's current move is bad for the party --> Can any one mention ONE way in which this might go against its chances?

very good question. I said the same thing. tactically and strategically speaking, Advani resigning is not something that was done to break up the BJP. if anything, it will now strengthen it.

but there is also the fact that LKA still holds on to the NDA positions. so damage can be still done on that front.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Jun 2013 17:35

Pratyush wrote:We will have to wait and see. LKA has done too much damage to the BJp with his resignation antic. Any return to the fold with Modi remaining in place is not possible. Having said so, 2 possibilities remain.

1) Modi gets sidelined.
2) LKA returns in a castrated avatar.

either way LKA is dead.

The karyakarthas will never support him now.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Jun 2013 17:36

Advani to withdraw his resignations, but nothing changes -- effectively LKA has endorsed/forced to endorse the new setup.

He is to make a speech quickly.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 11 Jun 2013 17:37

Sanku wrote:Advani to withdraw his resignations, but nothing changes -- effectively LKA has endorsed/forced to endorse the new setup.

He is to make a speech quickly.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 11 Jun 2013 17:39

RajeshA wrote:The BJP cadre now sees Advani as a liability even as they are very appreciative of him for his past services to the party.

Modi is not going to be sidelined. He is now practically the face of BJP.

It is good that the tantrum has taken place now and not later. If there is a new tantrum later on, people start seeing it as the same old habit and don't really go into the demands.

Advani is castrated.

Still they should have let him go with all honours, tears and pious platitudes. My worry now is not so much of Advaniji, it is the D4 and others who will not be now easily sidelined

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 11 Jun 2013 17:42

Still the PM elevation need to be done. That requires NDA acceptance and more chances to do meddling. Moreover he didn't relinquish NDA post anyway. If BJD or JD(U) or Shiv Sena openly clamour for Shri Stark will BJP rebuff them?

Saral · Post by **Saral** » 11 Jun 2013 17:42

ravi_g wrote:
Sanku wrote: Rohit, as I asked before, how exactly will LKA's stand hurt any one but himself?

(is it not clear that he is also settling the PM candidate issue for all to see, including JD(U), no last minute nautanki)

Sanku ji, you cannot be challenged on the Chinese constitution if there is any because you owe china nothing. But you can always be challenged on your own constitution [I respectfully submit hindu(ism/tva/etc)]. The relationship across time and generations is important for this side. This is a clear case of the Bhishm Pitamah taking the side of people he has tied himself to. The battle against Pitamah is a Dharm Sankat. Nobody gets into one with will. Everybody on this side recognizes this hence the utter disgust at this stand of LKA. I too was taken in by the surfeit of resignations in one letter till somebody pointed out LKA has retained the chairmanship of NDA. Apparently this time it is one too many.

What LKA has failed to realize is that he is an elder and then he failed again to realize that he is not the only elder that needs to be taken care of, on this side of eupherates.

Though I can see it how this will only take down Niku for good. But these are coincidences not plans. You are ascribing plans and detailing where mere coincidence and stupidity suffice. If LKA was so intent on controlling/taking down Niku why is he not doing it with the organisation he helped build. For all intents and purpose he is continuing on his unfinished agenda of Jan-chetna yatra (Sitabdiara). Unfinished agenda of taking up the mantle of leadership. A mantle he lost a long time back.

Agree 220%. There is a certain lack of realism here in this forum. Why is it so hard to understand that LKA has harbored this desire (of being PM)? And while I am not an expert on this topic, it does appear there is ample evidence for this. No complex (chankian) theories need be invoked. Add that to his age and declining cognitive abilities and resulting (likely) paranoia and being unduly influenced by a few individuals. This is just a human drama which will peter out and will tarnish LKA's legacy to some extent. Another human element: One's perception of someone is shaped by early encounters disproportionately. LKA has known and been a mentor of NaMo for long. But this also means he will be unable to evaluate him objectively or be able to consider data (that disconfirms his preconceptions) that are so obvious to everyone else. Suppose you had grown up with an immature brat of a younger brother. But in the course of time, he grows up to be some big shot. Are your older memories irrelevant to how you see this (now) accomplished brother of yours?

The reason for the chankian theories being bandied here is cognitive dissonance. When you like X and Y and assume both like each other and then you find out thats not the case, the triad is imbalanced. One way to restore the cognitive imbalance (and reduce the resulting unpleasant feelings due to dissonance) is to create fanciful stories (such as the various conspiracy theories) that have very low a priori probabilities. A lot is being said about blackmail etc. that too is a conspiracy theory of sorts that demands all sorts of specific other improbable facts to be true. Basically round-about ways to relieve LKA's identity as an autonomous agent, fully responsible for the choices he makes.

The same sort of non-realism permeates this forum (how China is declining, blah) and so on.

I tend to agree somewhat with those who say that all this is for the good in the sense that it forces the new leadership to take decisive choices early on than 2 weeks before the election. But, all other factors being equal, surely NaMo's position in the party would be firmer had he had LKA's support (no, "blessings") and all this drama and expenditure of energy could have been avoided. The jury is out on that one.

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 11 Jun 2013 17:43

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/live- ... 57691.html

5:40 pm: Parliamentary Board to meet and discuss issues raised by Advani

Advani will reportedly say that since the parliamentary board has rejected the issues raised by him, he will continue at the posts and will not leave just yet.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 11 Jun 2013 17:43

PM candidate to be Advani's choice

Not good . Not good at all. Yeddi will have to wait to return back

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 11 Jun 2013 17:45

I have a feeling BJP is too consensus driven to be effective....Once the primaries are done in the US and a leader chosen, decisions typically flow based on the organization and people that are put in place by the leader.

Modi's style is the normal corporate or US political style of working - hopefully the RSS is not too hidebound and traditional an organization to implement the latest management principles.

I hope he pushes for and gets the required autonomy on choosing candidates and in implementing his campaign ideas. Also - it is very important that Modi's personal authority with senior leaders is not impaired because of this issue with Advani.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 11 Jun 2013 17:51

Saar If the US has non white non christian significant minority we can see how strong the presidential style is

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 11 Jun 2013 17:52

Rudradev wrote:
SwamyG wrote: Reams of articles are written, thousand words are poured, tens of cartoons are drawn....yet you proudly claim
If these conditions are met, then whatever those articles/words/cartoons are saying must be the truth onlee? Solid viveka-buddhi, I must say!
.

However agenda driven, I think people like swapan, jaggy and venky have more connections than you or me, for that any average BRF. As I posted some links from First Post earlier, it is clear differences existed from 2012, if not earlier. Now you want us to believe, all this is just background noise to elevate Modi to Gadi?

I rather not drink kewl-aid. And people who challenge with straight questions are questioned about their buddhi?

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 11 Jun 2013 17:55

Hari Seldon saheb ndtv uses wrath yatra phrase!

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 11 Jun 2013 17:58

i have started loosing hope of seeing NaMo as PM

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 11 Jun 2013 18:00

krishnan wrote:i have started loosing hope of seeing NaMo as PM

Why? Modi has been moving up slowly. Nothing can stop him. Advani stands exposed.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 11 Jun 2013 18:01

well he should have been quietly shown the door, but look what they are doing

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 11 Jun 2013 18:02

Sanku wrote:
SwamyG wrote:Dear Soosai Theorists:
What would LKA have to do for you to reconsider your theory?
data that this goes against what we want, clear path of BJP victory.

Why thrust the alien concept of 'soosia' to an Indic yoddha ? ,
Atri-ji, used the word Ghatotkhacha, I can also think of Abhimanyu.

Aree Bhai, seedha sawal poocha. You are using recursive logic here. What would convince you that LKA is really opposing Modi. Sadly, I don't have theories, CTS or any connections....

Both stalwarts did not battle with soosai as the intention. If you are going to construe that, then all warriors who died on the battle field could claim they doned soosai vest.

My question remains unanswered.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Jun 2013 18:03

Advani saga fizzles out, Advani follows RSS command. Does not come out and speak to media, RNS speaks on his behalf, and says that Advani ji has agreed to follow what the party says.

Hooo haaaaaa....

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 11 Jun 2013 18:04

saravana wrote:Saar If the US has non white non christian significant minority we can see how strong the presidential style is

Saravana, How would you relate the appropriateness of Presidential style to minority percentage ? Would be quite interested...

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 11 Jun 2013 18:05

Narendra Modi ‏@narendramodi I had said yesterday that Advani ji will not disappoint lakhs of Karyakartas. Today, I whole heartedly welcome his decision!

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Jun 2013 18:05

I had said yesterday that Advani ji will not disappoint lakhs of Karyakartas. Today, I whole heartedly welcome his decision!

---- NaMo on twitter.

Cho Ramaswamy says that "all well that ends up"

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Jun 2013 18:09

SwamyG wrote:
Aree Bhai, seedha sawal poocha. You are using recursive logic here. What would convince you that LKA is really opposing Modi. .

I answered it.

One shred of evidence.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 11 Jun 2013 18:13

rkirankr wrote:PM candidate to be Advani's choice

Not good . Not good at all. Yeddi will have to wait to return back

I doubt that. From your link the following quote:

18:27 PM All through the very short press conference, only party president Rajnath Singh spoke, while Advani remained absent. The presser was held at Advani's residence.

18:24 Rajnath Singh: Advani has agreed to abide by party's decision : BJP president Rajnath Singh begins the meet. Says that the BJP Parliamentary Board has rejected LK Advani's resignation. "Rejecting Advani-ji's decision was an unanimous decision," says Rajnath Singh. He says Advani has accepted the Board's decision and has decided that whatever the party decides will be accepted by him. Which means Advani has accepted the party's decision to make Narendra Modi the poll campaign chief and will continue to be a member of the all the three posts he had resigned from the national executive, parliamentary board and the election committee.

"Advanji's concerns about the running of the party will be addressed by him personally and at an appropriate level," says Rajnath Singh.

My two khota sikka, LKA ji is one amongst equals now. Unless off course rediff is going through its own bout of Dhimmitude and has let some important line out of its report.

Looks like Kongis, Niku aur MSM ka कऐ एल पि दी ho gaya.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 11 Jun 2013 18:14

This business is false flag ops to force JD(U)'s hand and make a mistake. Perhaps Nitish Kumar is looking out at a long time in the cold, similar to CBN after the latter's 9 years as AP CM.

What's happened has again gone on to reinforce the theory of another PM candidate.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Jun 2013 18:20

rkirankr wrote:
RajeshA wrote:The BJP cadre now sees Advani as a liability even as they are very appreciative of him for his past services to the party.

Modi is not going to be sidelined. He is now practically the face of BJP.

It is good that the tantrum has taken place now and not later. If there is a new tantrum later on, people start seeing it as the same old habit and don't really go into the demands.

Advani is castrated.
Still they should have let him go with all honours, tears and pious platitudes. My worry now is not so much of Advaniji, it is the D4- and others who will not be now easily sidelined

It is only at their behest that he is returning, but they will soon find out that it doesn't help them much. All this does is that they would continue to hold on to hope that Advani ji would improve their prospects, and every time he would tell them that he cannot do much, the others are not listening to him.

In fact this rebellious attitude among the D4- would contribute to their being totally sidelined, much more than if they had fallen in line completely.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 11 Jun 2013 18:20

Arjun wrote:
saravana wrote:Saar If the US has non white non christian significant minority we can see how strong the presidential style is
Saravana, How would you relate the appropriateness of Presidential style to minority percentage ? Would be quite interested...

I didn't question the presidential way but how strong the presidential candidate can be in a non homogeneous electorate. US for all its sound and fury don't have the spectrum of differences Indian parties face. The analogy breaks down since major religions are still Abrahamic. But the essence is when the party inside or to outside start accommodation g then we get a milk toast candidate. Hence the difficulty in getting a lantern jawed candidate like Modi.
JMT onlee.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 11 Jun 2013 18:22

I am impressed with RNS for the first time. He stood firm. Did not give away any thing; Did not even care for the presstitutes; Did not even beg Advani;Got it done by whatever means using RSS.

After a long time, a thakur has shown some back bone. The thakurs we know, Dogvijay/Arjun?Weepy brought shame to the entire nation.

May be this can bring back thakur vote to BJP in UP, Bihar

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/live- ... 57691.html

Rajnath said that Advani was spoken to by the RSS chief, who also appealed to him to stay on and lead the party.

“RSS chief spoke to Advani and asked him to respect the party decision and continue to guide it,” Singh said.

When asked why Advani wasn’t present at the press conference announcing the end to the crisis, Singh said he had requested him not to be present.
“I thought it would not be right for him to be present while we are speaking about him and therefore I asked him not to be here. That is why he is absent,” said Singh.

And that’s the end of the conference.

Now quietly dump him without making any more damage.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 11 Jun 2013 18:25

This is not good. Advani should not have been allowed to stay on without a public speech where he congratulates Modi on his position and communicates his blessings.

Yogesh · Post by **Yogesh** » 11 Jun 2013 18:29

^^ you missed the kamandal fame (perhpas worst of the lot) - VP Singh !!

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Jun 2013 18:33

Arjun wrote:This is not good. Advani should not have been allowed to stay on without a public speech where he congratulates Modi on his position and communicates his blessings.

If Advani is being played by Maino clan, then he can hardly do that. As long as the Mainos remain hopeful, they will not be bringing out allegations and charges against the compromised leaders of the BJP.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 11 Jun 2013 18:36

Yogesh wrote:^^ you missed the kamandal fame (perhpas worst of the lot) - VP Singh !!

I said Weepy

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 11 Jun 2013 18:37

Come on Arjun ji, muft ka milne laga to doa maang rahe ho.

The old man had the whole country by its balls for two full days. ~~Karyakartaon~~ Hum logon ki sitti pitti gul ho gayi thi. Now even NaMo is welcoming the decision and so is the rest of the Goa Team.

If you ask for my advise I think NaMo will earn his PM ship fit and proper after taking the party through the state elections. Not on the basis on some karyakarta only wave. Rather on the basis of a nationwide wave. Which I believe is the right way forward for NaMo. NaMo himself seems convinced about the appropriateness of the result, judging by his tweet (he gets to lead and decide unhindered). RNS is also happy. You could not have asked for anything more.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 11 Jun 2013 18:42

Advani in and out like a stray mutt. Modi has brought him back into the party without any power. What can old fart do? Throw a few crumbs to the media and talk about his past awesomeness. Pathetic. What's funny is some BRFites still think this is all a Chankian show being put up by him. Take a look at the letter he wrote. Never seen such a foolish excuse for resigning. He's upset that all the power that he wielded in the party slowly eroded. F*ck the elections, f*ck the demoralized cadre, me, me, me has become his philosophy! Some need to stop creating excuses for this fellow and move on.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 11 Jun 2013 18:44

State elections may not necessarily point to national election results. That is quite unfair on Modi.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 11 Jun 2013 18:44

ravi_g wrote:Come on Arjun ji, muft ka milne laga to doa maang rahe ho.

The old man had the whole country by its balls for two full days. ~~Karyakartaon~~ Hum logon ki sitti pitti gul ho gayi thi. Now even NaMo is welcoming the decision and so is the rest of the Goa Team.

If you ask for my advise I think NaMo will earn his PM ship fit and proper after taking the party through the state elections. Not on the basis on some karyakarta only wave. Rather on the basis of a nationwide wave. Which I believe is the right way forward for NaMo. NaMo himself seems convinced about the appropriateness of the result, judging by his tweet (he gets to lead and decide unhindered). RNS is also happy. You could not have asked for anything more.

I agree, this seems to be the most one could hope for currently.

The issue though is that - a perception of Advani and Namo not getting on with each other and Advani not blessing Modi, will probably hurt Modi's chances in the minds of voters. Of course, the resignation by Advani also communicated the same thing - which is what BJP was trying to resolve.

There is only one solution - Advani needs to be sacked by the BJP using some bahana at the appropriate time, unless he publicly mends ways with Modi.