Indian Naval Discussion

[Hiten]

what is the Vik firing? No control surfaces visible. ASW role? doesn't look like something that would come out of the RBU-6000. Also seems to be ejected out of a multiple-launcher system. Some new ASW system? Fired from port side, aft.
click on the image for hi-res version

via http://www.aame.in/2013/07/ins-vikramad ... thing.html

[Singha]

here is a pic of the RPK8 rocket being loaded into the RBU unit . this one looks more uniform diameter..could be some newer variant.

http://warfare.be/0702ey70/update/jan2005/4/rpk-8.jpg

[krishnan]

looks like a 2 stage weapon

[John]

Gorshkov had Udav-1 ASW system it could be that.

Is the Redut an advanced derivative of Shtil that brings in VLS + Active Homing? Coupled with a multi function radar, that will of course solve the problem of multiple parallel interceptions.

It is an entirely new system and it uses 9m96 missile, i don't believe it is available for export.

[Singha]

Serch for rbu12000 , a giant 7 ton beast that launches 300mm rounds...kind of a naval smerch system for asw work!

[Philip]

Neither.It look's like a PK-2 decoy launcher,which can fire active decoys or chaff rounds.It supposedly can also fire rounds containing aerosols,IR decoys, decoys which can counter (absorb/reflect) laser radiation,optical/optronic sensors,IR, and RF radiation too.

The launcher is widely used aboard a variety of Russian/Soviet surface combatants.The familiar MBU-6000 launchers can also fire some of these decoys so the same Q can theoretically be asked whether the PK-2 can fire ASW rounds,but it is unlikely.

[titash]

A couple of nice pics from the IN's official site (slow loading!...we're still way behind the times as far as multimedia marketing goes):

Aircraft over the Andamans:

[Nikhil T]

Ready to sail, finally

It is without doubt the largest warship ever to be operated by the Indian Navy. But if there is a record for the longest time spent by an Indian warship in a shipyard, the INS Vikramaditya would hold that too. After a long a painful process of renegotiations, price escalations and delays, India's new aircraft carrier finally seems to be on its way home.
The refurbished ship — it was originally the Gorshkov, launched in 1982 — is currently undergoing an exhaustive series of trials in the Barents Sea to test its weapon systems, flight operations, propulsion and communications.

If things go well — they did not last year when its steam boilers malfunctioned during what were then considered to be final tests — the warship will be ready for handing over to the Indian Navy on November 15, after which it begins its long journey to India for the formal commissioning. This, nine years after the order was placed in 2004.

Its designers and refurbishing engineers are confident that it will exceed expectations during the trials, with the head of the Sevmash shipyard — where it underwent the refit — going as far to say that it will achieve a top speed of 30 knots, against the required 28.

In a series of exclusive interactions with The Indian Express, Russian shipbuilders and designers who worked on the project for a decade give a detailed picture on what is driving the warship, the problems of the past and what the future holds for the Vikramaditya.

Price fix

After protracted negotiations that went on for several years, India signed a deal for the conversion of the retired Admiral Gorshkov aircraft cruiser into a modern aircraft carrier for the Navy that would be able to operate new-generation MiG 29 K fighters. Signed in the final months of the NDA government, the contract was unique in many ways.

It stipulated not only a redesign of the mothballed ship by removing its massive array of weapons and fitting of a ski jump, but also the designing of a new class of carrier-borne fighter aircraft to operate from it deck. These new fighters were the MiG 29 K — derived from the Air Force version of the aircraft but remodelled to suit naval operations.

Besides, the contract was very lucrative for the Indian side. For $974 million, it was to get a modern aircraft carrier with the latest weapon and defensive systems on board. This at a time when there was no other nation willing enough to sell a ship of this class to India. Russia promised to deliver it by 2008.

As it turned out, the price was deceptive. Now, nine years after the contract, officials in Russia who negotiated it have opened up a bit on how those negotiations were conducted. "The Indian side had been inspecting the ship since 1996 and was very keen on it. The one thing they kept insisting on was price. They wanted the rock-bottom price and they wanted a competition for that," says an official with Rosoboronexport, the prime arms export body of the Russian government.

What ensued was a race for the lowest price to refurbish the carrier. It was a race in which several shipyards of Russia participated, hoping to cash in on the Indian contract. The rule that India applied was L1 — the vendor that bids the lowest wins. However, in a Russia whose economy was then in the doldrums, shipyards were willing to do anything to bag contracts. The original shipyard where the Gorshkov was constructed was not in contention as it is now located in Ukraine, following the USSR breakup.

"The Indian side then was not concerned about the capabilities or expertise of the shipyard to be selected for the work. Price was the only deciding factor," the official said.

The shipyard that quoted the lowest price by far was Sevmash, located in Severodvinsk. A renowned shipyard established in 1937 for the construction of large surface ships, it had one drawback. Since 1953, it had been concentrating mainly on nuclear submarines. Since that year, it has commissioned 129 nuclear submarines for the Russian Navy but not a single surface ship the size of the Gorshkov.

However, by virtue of being L1, Sevmash bagged the contract. Others, such as the St Petersburg-based Admiralty shipyard that had some experience in large surface ships, lost out. "We agree that there was a major fault from our side in estimating the costs," the official says.

The first hint that things were very wrong came in 2007, the year before the ship was to be delivered, with Russia conveying that it could not complete the work on time or within budget. "The contract that was proposed for the modernisation called for a very specific amount of work to be done in Sevmash. But when we did the third inspection of the ship in dry dock and looked at the condition of the superstructure and other things, it became clear to everyone that for this to be up to standards, a large amount of work was required," Michael Budnichenko, general director of Sevmash, told The Indian Express.

His predecessor, who signed the contract and prepared the bid for the Indian order, had retired within months of January 2004, the month when New Delhi formally presented the order. As it became clear that a large amount of work was required, the Russian side conveyed that a massive price escalation was inevitable and that delivery would be delayed by at least four years.

"We replaced 100 per cent of the wiring even though the initial contract had suggested that the old wiring could stay on the ship. This was a massive cost," he says, admitting that work on the ship started in earnest only in 2008, after India made interim payments (see box) to expedite its progress.

"The main cause of the delay was the improper system of the financing of the contract. That's due to the fact that a big mistake was made during the initial negotiations. The contract was signed by the Russian side even with the understating that the price quoted was way too low. That in practice led to a situation when my enterprise was overloaded," he says.

It was after several rounds of negotiations, which lasted two years, that the Indian side agreed on a revised contract with Russia. Cleared in 2010, it put the new price of the ship at $2.34 billion and the new delivery date as December 2012. Things picked up at Semash after this, with the shipyard employing several hundred new workers to expedite work. And it seemed to be going on track for the scheduled delivery, until an unforeseen block emerged in 2012.

Hiccup AT trials

With the money in and all new systems ordered, the ship was ready for sailing and sea trials in 2012. The trials were the most crucial part, the time when the ship is tested to its limits. Be it repetitive landing of aircraft, engaging of enemy assets, going up to the maximum speed or testing the engines to maximum power, the Indian Navy had to be satisfied that all parameters had been met.

The big setback came in the summer of last year when the ship was undergoing high speed trials in the Barents Sea. Inching towards the targeted 28 knots, it had reached 27.8 when warning bells went off. The eight steam boilers that are the main propulsion of the ship started overheating, causing damage to surrounding equipment. The insulation around the boilers, these having been designed to prevent this very overheating, had failed and melted away.

While a bulk of the trials was successful, the ship went back to the yard to repair the damage and find a solution. As it turned out, the fault has been rectified by using asbestos as the insulation. This had been the original material on the boilers but rejected by the Indian Navy as it has banned the use of the material aboard its future warships. However, with the alternative material malfunctioning, asbestos lining has again been used on the boilers.

"There was a mutual fault from both sides. The Indian side insisted on rejecting asbestos on the ship. And it then was replaced by another material by us. The new material was not good enough and failed," Nevskoe design bureau general director Sergey S Vlasov, the chief designer of the refurbished Vikramaditya, told this newspaper.

Other faults in systems — including the air-conditioning plant that is manufactured by York and the reverse osmosis plant provided by an Indian manufacturer to generate water — too were rectified during the winter to get the ship ready for trials in July this year.

The carrier is currently undergoing a series of tests in the White and Barents seas that will include extensive flight testing, high-speed runs and testing of the electronic equipment on board. Budnichenko said several aircraft will be involved in the extensive rounds of testing, including the SU 33 that will act as an "aggressor" , IL 38 that will assist in testing radio and electronic equipment, and the A 50 early warning aircraft.

At present there are 2,500 people aboard, including the Indian Navy crew, as all systems are being tested to the limit.

"There will be a lot of flying and fine-tuning of radio and electronic equipment. Systems that detect the flight of hostile aircraft need to be tested. We will also test the equipment on board the Ka 28 and 31 choppers," the Sevmash director says. "On completion of the acceptance trials, the ship will go back to Sevmash on 15 October. We will then do the final work on furnishing of the ship and restoration of the paint. On November 15, it will leave for its permanent base in India."

On the way

The designers of the ship also assure that no more hiccups are likely and the ship would be ready for delivery on November 15.

"The carrier is scheduled to be delivered on November 15. All concerns regarding the boilers have been resolved and now it will be tested, checked and loaded at sea and will demonstrate its reliability," Vlasov says.

The well-know warship designer has also said that while the planned life of the aircraft carrier is 25 years, the construction quality and design will ensure that it can remain in service for as long as 40 years, as long as refits and maintenance work are done on time. "The Indian contract says that it should serve for at least 20 years. It is a very high-quality ship and I think that given the correct treatment, it can serve for even 40 years. Or own carrier that is of a similar design stayed working for 20 years without any major refit."

However, the Vikramaditya may not be able to operate heavier fighter aircraft that may be procured by India in the future, given the limitations of its design. Asked if the fifth-generation fighter that is currently being developed and has been ordered by India can fly off the carrier, the designer says it would not be possible, given the weight constraints.

On the inevitable question on how the ship compares with the under-development Chinese aircraft carrier that is also based on a Russian design, the designer smiles. "The Vikramaditya has all its weapons and aviation complex complete. As far as I am aware, the Chinese are not ready with this yet," he says.

India is planning a commissioning ceremony for the warship in December when it sails to home shores.

Choppy voyage

January 2004
Deal signed by NDA government to purchase the carrier and complement of MiG 29 K fighters for $974 million

April 2007
Russia says cannot deliver carrier on time, stresses need to increase price as its shipbuilders had underestimated amount of work required to refurbish warship

November 2007
Russia officially conveys the deal will cost $1.2 billion more, taking the total to more than twice the original cost

February 2008
Team headed by defence secretary inspects the Vikramaditya. Russia says price escalation inescapable, cannot complete work before 2012

June 2008
Russia puts additional workers on warship, says work cannot proceed unless more advance payments are made

December 2008
Cabinet committee on security gives MoD approval to renegotiate. By now, India has paid $500 million extra.

March 2010
Cabinet committee clears a $2.34 billion contract for the refit of the Gorshkov aircraft carrier. Signed during Vladimir Putin's visit, it assures that the carrier will be ready for induction in two years. Committee also clears another $1.2 billion deal to procure 29 addition naval fighters to supplement the 16 MiG 29 Ks that will operate from the INS Vikramaditya

July 2012
Vikramaditya heads out for extensive sea trials to test all its systems and carry out flight trials

September 2012
Setback as defects emerge in boilers after insulation system fails. Ship fails to reach top speed, sent back to shipyard.

July 2013
The ship heads out for a final round of sea trials to test all systems. Faults with boiler rectified

Nov 2013
INS Vikramaditya to be handed over to the Indian Navy

[ramana]

So when the price is too good to be true it usually is.
And also the insiting of alternate insulation when none is available is also a thing to ponder on.

So how many aircraft will it carry?
16 Mig 29ks and xx helicpoters?

[Surya]

did Shankar or Philip saar write that article

all Indian fault or mutual faults - nothing is Rodina's fault


Read this gem

"There was a mutual fault from both sides. The Indian side insisted on rejecting asbestos on the ship. And it then was replaced by another material by us. The new material was not good enough and failed," Nevskoe design bureau general director Sergey S Vlasov, the chief designer of the refurbished Vikramaditya, told this newspaper.

[Manish_Sharma]

Anything moving forward on this Nausainik Helicopter MMRCA?

http://www.defencenow.com/news/829/indi ... again.html

Indian Navy’s $1 Billion Multirole Helicopter Deal Delayed by Six Months Again

For a second time in an year, Indian Navy’s tender for multirole helicopters has been delayed with the Defence Ministry directing the vendors to extend the validity of their proposals for six more months. The Defence Ministry, without elaborating on the details of this decision, has asked the American Sikorsky and European NH Industries to extend the validity of their proposals for the tender worth over $1 billion for buying 16 choppers.

The 16 choppers in the $ 1 billion tender of the Indian Navy are meant to carry out anti-submarine warfare and surveillance roles besides augmenting its fleet of Sea King helicopters. American Sikorsky had fielded its S-70 Blackhawk helicopter and NH Industries of Europe had offered its NH-90 helicopters for the tender. The Navy has completed the trials of the participating helicopters in 2011 and submitted its report with the Defence Ministry.

While both the firms in the fray for the helicopter deal have been asked to extend their validity for six months, the Defence Ministry has not furbished any reason for this move. The tender has also been delayed due to complaints made by NH Industries against its rival Sikorsky and the capabilities of the American platform offered by Sikorsky.

In a letter to the Defence Ministry, European NH Industries has claimed that its rival Sikorsky could not have met all the conditions of the Navy’s RFP. NH Industries claims that Sikorsky may not be technically compliant unless its S70B helicopter has been granted waivers on a number of non-compliances of the Multi Role Helicopter (MRH) RFP qualitative requirements. NH Industries has demanded similar concessions before the commencement of contract negotiation stage scheduled for later this year.

As for the Indian Navy, it has responded in the media by stating that NH Industries is attempting to mislead the higher authorities and cause delays with unreasonable queries/concerns. The Indian Navy has evaluated the (NHI) NH90 and (Sikorsky) S70B helicopters, and considers both platforms meet the requirements specified in the RFP.

As for the multi-role helicopters, their primary role would be anti-submarine warfare and anti-surface warfare, while its secondary role would include search and rescue, cargo carrying and casualty evacuation. As per the tender, the winning bidder would be required to supply the first MRH within 46 months in three phases. The Navy will also have the option of placing orders for another 44 helicopters, once the present contract is completed.

Meanwhile, the 16 multirole helicopters (MRH) competition is to be followed by the N-MRH, a separate tender for 44 helicopters. Lockheed-Martin's MH-60R, based on the same airframe as the S-70B, will be a contender. The Navy is also in the process of evaluating upgrade packages for the old Seakings. The Navy has 40-odd Seaking choppers in its air wing, but the strength has come down to about 30 helicopters due to mishaps.

[Philip]

Non,mon ami,I did not write that article.But it is a revealing one explaining how the bid was awarded-a truly useless method of always awarding it to the lowest tenderer,without first shortlisting the candidates into only those who can get the job done,on time,and under budget.In India,this method has also produced in the civilian sector umpteen number of unfinished infrastructure projects where the contract was awarded under one regime and when a new regime took over,they also wanted their pound of flesh,leaving the contractor and the public up sh*t street.

Anyway,fingers crossed we should get by the year end a virtuallly brand new 45,000t+ carrier that in the IOR will be a pivotal factor in establishing regional security.With the launch of IAC-1 also expected shortly,and that carrier to arrive 4-5 years later,design work should start on IAC-2 ,larger,around 65,000t, to accommodate a naval version of the FGFA.The Viraat can soldier on until about 2020 and its only drawback is the limited number of Sea Harriers still active.I/m not sure if there are any more early retd, RN Sea Harriers with the RN,as the USMC seems to have acquired only the land attack version retd. early lock stock and barrel,but these should be acquired if available to keep our existing numbers happy until the decade's end.

The availability of STOVL aircraft is going to be a huge problem post 2020.We will need a STOVL fighter if we choose for our amphib ship req. the Spanish Juan Carlos design,which has the ability to "swing" roles as a multi-role flat top that can support amphib ops with integral air support.Latest news about the JSF is frightening (AWST).The manufacturers and Pentagon are clueless as to the operating and maintenance costs of the bird,at least $35,000/hr,far above the F-16's $25,000/hour.Acqusititon costs for the US is now estimated to be $1 trillion! This is putting off many customers who find the aircraft far too expensive to acquire and operate.There is going to be a major shakeout in the near future with the F35.

[GeorgeWelch]

Acqusititon costs for the US is now estimated to be $1 trillion!

No, that is acquisition+operating costs+future upgrades+inflation over 50 years.

[sarabpal.s]

UKRAINIAN defense REVIEW

State Company Zorya-
Mashproekt has signed a
contract with an Indian
customer to supply gasturbine
engines for vessels
that will be built at a
shipyard in Mumbai, the
Company’s press office reported
on April 16, 2013.
The contract was awarded after
a competition that took place
in 2012. Under the terms of the
contract, the Contractor shall
provide gas-turbine engines for
four Project 15B vessels in the period
from 2016 to 2019. This is
going to be the third series of
such vessels for which Zorya-
Mashproekt will supply its gas
turbines. Especially for Project
15B vessels, the Company will
build an upgraded gas-turbine
engine with a microprocessor-based
control system.

[Philip]

GW is right,it is for the total "package".

[SNaik]

Trikand in Portsmouth
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/gre-gabrie ... 32/?page=3

[SNaik]

Latest schedule for Vikra trials:
25 days (till end of July) in White Sea for sea trials including max speed runs and testing of aviation equipment.
From August till 15 October in Barents Sea - airwing trials, involving 16 MiGs and few helicopters.
15 November - transfer

[tushar_m]

Trikand

[Philip]

While our great ditherer,AKA sits heavily upon the IN's sub needs,the rest of Asia is rapidly getting on with augmenting their sub fleets,asap.Here is a report on the competition within the ASEAN nations,which will further complicate the IN's operations.Indonesia alone is planning to operate a fleet of 18 subs,while the IN's conventional sub fleet strength will dwindle to barely a dozen,even after all Scorpenes are inducted, sometime after 2020,

http://thediplomat.com/flashpoints-blog ... an-strait/

The Submarine Race in the Malaccan Strait
By Zachary Keck
July 16, 2013

[koti]

Picture too big for Inline
Seen on: Militaryphotos .net

This is claimed to be a pic of Vikramaditya firing something.
I am missing something. Vik was allegedly removed of all the defensive and offensive missiles and was supposed to have if any after it was delivered.
Any change of plans?

[Rupak]

It looks like some kind of decoy being fired.

[koti]

I guess its too big for a Decoy.
It seems to be fired from something that looks like an AK630 shaped turret. Could be a launcher arm.

[Mihir]

Looks like a PK-2. Someone like John or tsarkar might know better.

[koti]

What is PK-2 Mihir saab. Never heard of it before.

[Mihir]

http://www.harpoondatabases.com/encyclo ... y2676.aspx

This twin 152mm rocket system was the first widely-adopted Soviet decoy launcher. It is trainable and elevatable, and reloads automatically from a below-decks magazine. ZIF-121 (a designation in the gun series) apparently refers to just the above-decks mount while PK-2 describes the overall system.

A total of 198 rounds are carried in the below-decks magazine. The original ammunition is a 3’3”-long rocket with a parachute in the nose and an active jammer in the body. The Soviets designed this complicated (for the era, anyways) round as they felt at the time that chaff was unsuitable due to the wide variety of high-powered radars carried aboard most Soviet ships. This was not entirely successful and a basic chaff round was designed later, today it is almost exclusively used. Recently a third option (a floating flare) has entered service; this is not fired at all but rather ejected into the water via the PK-2’s dud disposal chute.

Despite it’s age the system remains in service. It’s size and the need for a below-decks magazine limit it to destroyer-sized ships or larger.

This is the image of the launcher from the photo. I've increased the shadows, contrast, and sharpness so that it can be seen better. It looks almost exactly like the PK-2. It is an old system, but to the best of my knowledge, the Russians never came up with a follow-on replacement for the type. So there's no other system that bears a resemblance to it.

I believe it is installed on the Delhi class as well.

[Austin]

Found some more info on the rocket ( via GarryB )

It is the larger of two system types used by the Russian Navy that has a calibre of 82mm and is for use on smaller ships.

The 140mm rockets have a much longer range than the 82mm rockets which operate from 500-1,800m or so from the vessel that launches them.

The 140mm rockets are used in the PK-2, PK-10, and PK-16 launchers.

The A3-TSP-47 radar decoy rocket is designed to protect surface ships from weapons fitted with radar guidance systems by setting up at an assigned area a confusing or distracting false target in the form of a chaff cloud ensuring confusion of detection and target designation radar systems and the distraction of the attacking weapon to a false direction.

The A3-TSO-47 low temperature decoy rocket is designed to protect surface ships from weapons fitted with IR guidance systems by setting up at an assigned area a hot false target in the form of a cloud of smoldering elements that distract the attacking weapons at the stage of target search.

The A3TSO-47 visual optical decoy rocket is designed to protect surface ships from weapons fitted with visual optical and laser guidance systems by setting up at an assigned area a visual optical false target in the form of a cloud of burning pyrotechnic elements and special light reflectors that ensure the suppression of visual optical and laser detection systems.

The A3-TSTV-47 TV decoy rocket is designed to protect surface ships from weapons fitted with TV and laser guidance systems by setting up at an assigned area a water surface false target in the form of a contrast aerosol cloud ensuring the confusion of TV and laser homing heads and the distraction of attacking weapons to a false direction.

False targets generated by these rocket systems can be set up from 500-6,000m from the ship.

The rockets are about 40kgs in weight each and are about 1.1m long.

[SNaik]

There are two PK-2 decoy launchers on Vikramaditya, one in front of the island and one on a sponson in stern.

[Singha]

very interesting. what kind of softkill system does our talwar class and p17 ships use?
do we have any softkill measures on kora or P28 ships?

[Austin]

Some close up of PK-2 from Viky

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Dnq4-erDT8Q/T ... G_7376.JPG
http://warfare.be/0702ey70/update/feb2005/3/pk2.jpg
http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/15/11/39/27/0_407010.jpg

[Austin]

very interesting. what kind of softkill system does our talwar class and p17 ships use?
do we have any softkill measures on kora or P28 ships?

Most Indian Naval ships carry some form of Decoys either Italian or Russian ones.

But now we have indiginous Kavach Decoy that would get deployed on ships perhaps likely retrofit on older ships too.

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/we ... /add_5.htm
http://www.mahindra.com/What-We-Do/Defe ... -Launchers

Wonder why PK-2 on Viky why not Kavach ?

[Philip]

The PK-2 is primarily an anti-missile decoy.Whether the same launcher can fire anti-torpedo decoys is a point in Q.I am not sure whether the desi ATDS can mimic the return of a ship the size of a carrier.Grey zone here.

[chetak]

India’s Muddled Carrier Plans

At long last, the delivery of INS Vikramaditya, the former Russian Admiral Gorshkov finally appears imminent. Vikramaditya is currently undergoing sea trials with a mixed Russian-Indian crew, and a transfer to Indian service is scheduled for the autumn. The delivery comes several years late, but still perhaps in time for the Indian Navy to use the carrier as a test-bed for INS Vikrant, its first indigenous carrier, scheduled for commissioning in 2018.

However, while the delayed delivery of Vikramaditya has surely proven problematic for the Indian Navy, the program has an altogether broader set of problems. Unlike the PLAN, the Indian Navy has a long history of carrier operations, running from the Majestic class INS Vikrant to the former Centaur class INS Viraat.

But India’s carrier heritage may be less of an asset than it seems. India doesn’t appear interested in achieving greater efficiency in many areas— even in terms of common training and operational procedures— with this path of carrier fleet development.

With the arrival of Vikramaditya, the Indian Navy will be flying new aircraft off of a new carrier of largely unfamiliar design. Although the Indian Navy has experience with both carriers and with Russian vessels, its previous carriers have been of British design, and it has never operated a ship this large.

Furthermore, no Kiev class carrier has been put to sea in an operational sense since the early 1990s, and the modifications to Vikramaditya make her a virtually new vessel in any case. Even after delivery, Vikramaditya will require considerable practice and time to become an effective, operational unit. The MiG-29K is also relatively new to carrier operations, with the first aircraft entering service in 2011.

Operational tempo in Russian service has thus far been slow, meaning that many of the kinks with the carrier-based version of the veteran fighter will have to be worked out in Indian service. If India follows through on plans to build INS Vishal as a CATOBAR carrier, the Navy will again have to learn an entirely new set of procedures, presumably with a new generation of aircraft, in the next decade.

The most interesting points to watch will be Indian collaboration with other carrier-operating navies. The obvious candidate is Russia, but Russia owns only one carrier, which operates at a relatively low temp and may shortly re-enter a prolonged refurbishment period. The only other navy to operate a similar carrier will, ironically, be the PLAN, which is unlikely to share many of its developing operational procedures with the Indian Navy.

The risk of duplication of effort can surely be overstated; some of the tacit knowledge of naval aviation operations will carry over from the STOVL Viraat to the STOBAR Vikramaditya and Vikrant to the CATOBAR Vishal. However, “knowledge efficiency” and modularity do not appear to be strongly valued by the Indian Navy; beginning in 2018, it will operate three carriers of radically different age, design, and capability, and will likely maintain that state of affairs into the medium term (even after Vishal replaces Viraat).

[titash]

Chetak-ji,

Do you agree with the guts of this article? It seems to assume that India all along had the economic resources and technical expertise to have a standardized fleet of STOBAR or CATOBAR carriers. Till very recently we never had the money to purchase, or in-house expertise to design & develop, or allies willing to make and sell a spanking new 40,000 ton STOBAR/60,000 ton CATOBAR.

The Viraat will retire when the IAC comes on board, and for the better part of the next decade, we will operate only 2 carriers...both of which are STOBAR and carry Mig-29K,Tejas (navy), and Ka-28/31. That seems like a decade of common operations concepts.

The IAC-II and its 2-3 sisters (assuming the economy does grow proportionately) will take more than a decade to emerge...enough time to develop and formulate operational strategies

Thanks,

[NRao]

The most interesting points to watch will be Indian collaboration with other carrier-operating navies. The obvious candidate is Russia, but Russia owns only one carrier, which operates at a relatively low temp and may shortly re-enter a prolonged refurbishment period. The only other navy to operate a similar carrier will, ironically, be the PLAN, which is unlikely to share many of its developing operational procedures with the Indian Navy.

Eh?

[Aditya G]

Any news on commissioning of Saryu class OPVs? INS Sunanya should have been commissioned by now ...

And what about the Kamorta?

Good news is hard to find nowadays on indigenous ships ...

[Philip]

Before one decides upon the system of launch,one must decide upon the aircraft type that one is going to operate.For the forseeable future,we will be operating mainly MIG-29Ks,about 50 of them.The aircraft is an excellent bird and if further upgraded versions to MIG-35 std. with AESA radars and TVC,also arrive,they would be very formidable opponents to current later types operated by our principal opponents,Pak and China.In 5 years time,one hopes that the naval LCA also arrives.This will complement the MIG-29K,but its combat radius would be less ,300km when compared with 850 for the MIG-29K.It would be more suited to fleet air defence than undertaking long range strike missions.Both these types would use the STOBAR launch and recovery system instead of cats,which are exceptionally expensive and demand a far more powerful powerplant for the carrier,raising the cost upwards by a few billion $.

Ideally,a STOVL fighter like the RN/Marine Corps version of the JSF would fit the bill,but this aircraft is still in its developmental and pre-production stage,costing an arm and a leg ,with maintenance and operating costs still a black hole! IAC-1 and the Vik should be with us for the next 40 years,this approximates also the lifespan of the aircraft planned for them (MIG-29K and NLCA),so the naval aircraft that will be developed during this 4 decade period will have to be carefully watched to see which aircraft if any suit the IN's needs.If IAC-2 (65,000t) which will not arrive before 2025,is to have a new launch system,the aircraft willl have to be identified around 2015. Barring the naval version of the Rafale and the JSF ,both very expensive and unlikely to be acquired,there are no new ones on the horizon.By then,we may also have upgraded versions of the MIG-29K,equiv. to the MIG-35.There is a footnote in Wik which says that with special radar absorbing coatings,the MIG-29K can reduce its RCS by a factor of 4. A stealth version of the LCA can pursued as I've said elsewhere, as a logical extension of the programme after the definitive version,the MK-2 is developed. UCAVs aboard Indian carriers are stilll a lng way away,as even the USN has just started testing its X-47B which has also cost billions in its development and a contest is being conducted for an operational UCAV for the USN.

Therefore,with two carriers with a lifespan of 40 years to be inducted within a few years of each other,it would be sensible and economical for the IN to continue the STOBAR system for the future IAC-2.If in the interim,a STOVL/naval version of the FGFA is developed by Russia for its own new planned carriers,the acquisition of a 5th-gen stealth fighter would be very welcome.However,even here,the Russians are unlikely to adopt a Cat system for launch,unless they can acquire using traditional Chinese methods an E-Mal system.

Chinese carrier aviation despite their very ambitious plans to build 5 large carriers,is still about a decade away from achieving the same standard of ops as western naval air wings.They also will be using STOBAR for the Liaoning and it seems funny if they change the launch system for the next ones after setting up at huge cost and time,a training centre on land for the same.

[titash]

If economics are going to dictate the capabilities that we shall have, it makes eminent sense to lay the keels for a couple more INS Vikrant type ships - in their current STOBAR version. We can amortize the design/spares/aircraft costs over a larger number of ships, and provide increased availability and fleet air defence capabilities.

The prime weakness of the STOBAR approach is that the strike capabilities are greatly compromised with the reduction in fuel/payload.

If the IN's strategy is to operate in/dominate the IOR only, then 40,000 ton STOBAR carriers are good enough. They can operate in conjunction with land based AWACS and maritime strike bombers (TU-22 types) to deliver a potent air defence + strike package.

If the IN has extra-regional ambitions, and intends to operate deeper in the Persian Gulf, South China Sea etc., then it needs to actively consider the possibilities of procuring 60,000+ ton CATOBAR carriers with integral AEW/Tanker/Strike aircraft

[kmc_chacko]

India’s Muddled Carrier Plans

The MiG-29K is also relatively new to carrier operations, with the first aircraft entering service in 2011.

Operational tempo in Russian service has thus far been slow, meaning that many of the kinks with the carrier-based version of the veteran fighter will have to be worked out in Indian service.

Isn't MIG is suffering from heavy loss ? Why don't MoD offer to buy it at outright. It is sure that in future IAF & IN combined will have the largest Mig fleet after RuAF and it seems that they are moving towards Sukhoi's projects.

Rather than investing in Rafael & PAKFA I would prefer to invest in fastening Tejas & AMCA programme and upgrade/modify/redesign it by the technology we learned & acquired. It will not only help us to move ahead in indigenousing our Air Force but also learning the art of making best fighters without any outsider break & dictation.

[Singha]

carriers have 60 yr lifespans and go through atleast 2 generations of planes if not 3.
since we are starting from 0 and trying to build up, its better to upsize to 60000t earlier than later, which means break off at IAC1 and upsize rather than build 3 x IAC1 to same size.
the bigger carrier can do all that the smaller one can, but not other way around. and lack of a suitable carrier is a issue that will take 10 yrs to fix , and not open to any form of emergency import...plus our ability to churn our carriers quickly is not at all there.

mashallah ofcourse.

[chetak]

A good read.

At What Cost a Carrier?